archery is ruining this game again , ty
I know that archers dont top the scoreboard ever
Well that is just the biggest lie I ever saw.
yea we have couple archers , and they can top scoreboard if it is good map for they and it is no rain, but ususally cav and some inf top scoreboard and not archers, and rly most crying people just dont waste 1-2 skill points on shield, shame on you!
archery is ruining this game again , ty
Get a shield.FACEPALM
Get a shield.Uuggh, nope, can't be arsed to type the same reply to this for the fifteenth time. Nevermind.
Get a shield.
This. Seriously.Shield 7 3 agility per level
archery is is op :P .lol Buckler is the most little shield and IRL Archers would be able to shoot you...
even though a lot of archers say that it is impossible to hit someone behind the buckler they still shoot at me.
archery is ruining this game again , ty
It's not the Archery wich is OP its the OP Archers mostly.
Uuggh, nope, can't be arsed to type the same reply to this for the fifteenth time. Nevermind.
The moment when chadz an the devs decide to remove spray n pray archery he felt a disturbance in the force... it was like... a million 12 year old cs kids all cried out at once and were suddenly silenced by being rewarded with deadly braindead body shot dmg.
The "get a shield" argument is so lame and sooooooo very much 2010. Really, we've been over that one many times, you can even add the slot argument nowadays. :rolleyes:An oldie but a goodie ;)
I'm all for it, missile should travel faster but you should fire a lot slower and in volleys like archers used to. Not this Legolas bullshit we have from the day one.Well then Headshots would be normal cause when the arrow flies where you aim it's like no skill and it would end like Cod or CS . I agree with you they should decrease the draw speed of bows below long bow.
Also reloading the xbow sure takes longer IRL than in this game...
Archers aren't supposed to be strong on their own, they need infantry to protect them. In c-rpg everything is backwards to what it should be.
@Garison
Like I need your guides. Geeze :rolleyes:
Don't make me challenge you to a duel to prove how bad player you in fact are.
Yes, I get an arrow in my chest as Im wearing my nice tunic, but I do not die nor I feel any pain. I just run and run and do not care about that thingy in my chest that went in there with amazing speed? Nah, who cares. But if a bolt hits me with even more speed and greater pain, I cannot do anything?
If a horse charges me, why should I fall down? If I get hit by an axe, why should I give a shit and not hit directly back? Yes...
I can fly. I no care about a cliff...
but seriously, all that whining about archery is hilarious. They already got nerfed, better take a look at the 2handed sword spammers, as those are the guys who dominate the battlefield anyway, yep, the melee classes are the leader ones. I wouldn't nerf them or change anything there, but rather them than the archers who are fine as they are now.
lol Buckler is the most little shield and IRL Archers would be able to shoot you...Naa, it is not about that archers are able to hit me, but that they claim it is impossible to hit someone behind the buckler and still try to shoot at you.
EDIT:
Maybe get a bigger shield?
...
well then give us our ''middle age'' missile speed.I would say give us our realistic air friction back and lower missile speed :!:
I would say give us our realistic air friction back and lower missile speed :!:and this should be implemented because?
MW Longbow shotspeed; (tested ingame)
cRPG air friction = 0.003
43m/s + 6pd = 67.67m/s max range = 243.4m
43m/s + 10pd = 76.54m/s max range = 278.5m
Native air friction = 0.002
43m/s + 6pd = 67.67m/s max range = 285.3m
43m/s + 10pd = 76.54m/s max range = 332.4m
Guys I have an idea.
If they want to nerf archery sooo much...
... and you, archers, don't want smaller dmg (even I think it would be stupid)...
... then nerf the thing that doesn't have to do with direct stats of bows nor arrows:
Removing stun from arrows when they hit!
No other nerfs involved, simply as that.
Note: it would be only removed from archers, but bolts and throwing would still stun enemy.
Second note: I am not for nerfing archers, but those stupid pole/2h-and-no-shield-guys whining makes me sad.
PS If you don't know what stun am I talking about, it is the stun after being hit with an arrow that stops you from running and keeps you in one place for like a second. You lose whole speed gained thru acceleration and you have to accelerate again which makes kiting archers a sick work. While this would NOT nerf archery directly, it would encourage archers to move a bit more and to not waste time for kite&run technique unless they have a really good timing to not getting catched when they shoot. And even if they do shoot you and kite, you are not stunned which also allows much smoother dodging vs multiple archer units at once. Simply and working.
Discuss!
Also I would please devs to comment if it is even possible to code.
@Garison
Like I need your guides. Geeze :rolleyes:
Don't make me challenge you to a duel to prove how bad player you in fact are.
I agree with Tzar, this is useless :(
Weren't you in Bandits at some point?
Tzar & Leshma, a new dynamic duo that replaces Michael & Kesh. :wink:
Easy guide of crying:[/b]
1. Take a 2h sword.
3. Take a nick: Tzar, Leshma, Rufio.. or something similar.
2. Learn the way of randomspam.
3. Buy a keyboard with only one key. "W".
4. Buy a mouse button with one button. "Left click".
5. Go straight into the battle thinking you're playing on godmode.
6. Get your e-penis big and stronger killing 22 peasants in a row.
7. Get shot in the face while you was climbing a ladder where a kitty archer was running from you.
8. Create a post. Rage and whine.
9. Make El_Infante laugh a lot. Thanks.
I was at the point were Gnjus was a 24/7 roof xbower/mauler.
Easy guide of crying & whining:[/b]Tzar is/was a 1hander. Just saying...
1. Take a 2h sword.
3. Take a nick: Tzar, Leshma, Rufio.. or something similar.
2. Learn the way of randomspam.
3. Buy a keyboard with only one key. "W".
4. Buy a mouse button with one button. "Left click".
5. Go straight into the battle thinking you're playing on godmode.
6. Get your e-penis bigger and stronger killing 22 peasants in a row.
7. Get shot in the face while you was climbing a ladder where a kitty archer was running from you.
8. Create a post. Rage and whine.
9. Make El_Infante laugh a lot. Thanks.
shield
No, just no. First of all, it costs points, now that would be worth it if a shield would be effective. As a 2h meleer with a shield you will have to put the shield away to fight, which is 80% of the time, after the initial run to the fray.
When youre not fighting missiles are pretty easy to dodge anyway, just spasm with your mouse. I mostly get hit while fighting, when I would have holstered my shield.
Also you can get caught off guard with your shield out at close range, which will grant the enemy a hit when you switch.
Overall a shield for arrows as a 2h is detrimental to your performance. Being a 1h shielder is just plainly boring.
Not even talking about this yet
ever had 2 archers crossfire you? shield sucks dick in that situation
Archery is pretty damn weak as it is, whenever i get hit it barely does any difference to me unless the stun fucks me up.
Which server are you playing and at what time. I want to play with/against such archers myself. Will do anything to avoid the likes of Zerobot, Nelo, Inhumane, Slv and crew...Leshma you always (almost) play with light armor dont wonder if a 9pd archer with 40 cut damge longbow shots you.
No, just no. First of all, it costs points, now that would be worth it if a shield would be effective.1 point. Easily worth it over 2 hp.
As a 2h meleer with a shield you will have to put the shield away to fight, which is 80% of the time, after the initial run to the fray.In the fray use bodies or other shielders for cover. Leave the shield on the back most of the time, but when you are alone or charging archers bust it out. Simple.
When youre not fighting missiles are pretty easy to dodge anyway, just spasm with your mouse. I mostly get hit while fighting, when I would have holstered my shield.I also get hit the most by other melee when I'm teamed up on. Funny how that works, this crazy teamwork thing :D
Also you can get caught off guard with your shield out at close range, which will grant the enemy a hit when you switch.Don't... be... off guard? I don't know why that's part of your argument.
Overall a shield for arrows as a 2h is detrimental to your performance. Being a 1h shielder is just plainly boring.I'd rather be alive and worry about that problem, than being dead to ranged. Besides there are plenty of 2h weapons that can be used with a shield.. of course that would only be a temporary thing but this also allows you to fully push onto ranged with the shield up and still be ready to kill them without having to sheath the shield.
Leshma you always (almost) play with light armor dont wonder if a 9pd archer with 40 cut damge longbow shots you.
What use is a shield when youre fighting as a 2h or polearmer? Its on your back all the time! Only slowing your dodging down.
It... blocks arrows? which is why you use it? It just slows you down by a small bit, you can drop it before going into melee fights and only use it when you are pushing forward if you really need that movement speed.
You'll die from arrows in melee fight just as much as you'll die in the open. Greed of players who play this mod had hit the limit. No one gives a fuck about their teammates anymore, everyone wants to KILL!
Archers (both friendly and enemy) will shoot a group of you poor sobs who are fighting in melee, they'll rip you all to shreds and after you are all dead you'll see on scoreboard that only archers got kills.
Greed of players who play this mod had hit the limit. No one gives a fuck about their teammates anymore, everyone wants to KILL!
they'll rip you all to shreds and after you are all dead you'll see on scoreboard that only archers got kills.
It... blocks arrows? which is why you use it? It just slows you down by a small bit, you can drop it before going into melee fights and only use it when you are pushing forward if you really need that movement speed.No it doesn't. I said when im fighting. When I'm fighting its on my back and it does completely nothing. The amount of time that its safe to get my shield out is very little and when its safe to get my shield out I can also focus on dodging, which works quite well and keeps me moving fast.
1 point. Easily worth it over 2 hp.
My point exactly is that it isn't.
In the fray use bodies or other shielders for cover. Leave the shield on the back most of the time, but when you are alone or charging archers bust it out.
Which is like 30 seconds in the 4 minutes a round usually takes. Might aswell dodge those few times I could get my shield out
Simple.I also get hit the most by other melee when I'm teamed up on. Funny how that works, this crazy teamwork thing :D
No idea what this has to do with what I said. My point was, I mostly get shot when I am fighting, couldn't use a shield during fighting anyway. When I'm not fighting I can dodge, which works quite well
But really you can take steps to avoid this. If I'm in a melee fight while archers are shooting at me I try to position myself "behind" the enemy so archers will have a hard time hitting me. Otherwise work on adjusting your footwork and sticking close to the enemy melee - the archer will be forced to reposition/stop firing lest they risk hitting their teammate in which case you get a free hit. As an archer the easiest time to hit people tangled in melee are when they are backing away or moving forward for a swing. If you focus on circling or sticking close I don't even bother risking it.
Not sure if my brain has enough space to think about hiding behind people during fighting, but sure this can help, as long as there are no pikes in the enemy squad which force you to stay at range.
Don't... be... off guard? I don't know why that's part of your argument.
As you seem to think that you can get your shield out whenever youre alone, imagine passing a corner and theres an enemy right after it who immediately attacks you. Shit like that happens and can really fuck you over.
I'd rather be alive and worry about that problem, than being dead to ranged. Besides there are plenty of 2h weapons that can be used with a shield.. of course that would only be a temporary thing but this also allows you to fully push onto ranged with the shield up and still be ready to kill them without having to sheath the shield.
I am a polearmer and don't start on me with warspears etc.
E:Gee, I wonder why, maybe because it blows?(click to show/hide)
Also, two archers from different directions and youre still toast with a shield
Yeah well... what can we do... the ranged lobby performs the best head / oral pleasure around here so even if they made archery take skill which they did the ranged lobby will gather their finest oral experts in to change the devs mind in the last sec..
The moment when chadz an the devs decide to remove spray n pray archery he felt a disturbance in the force... it was like... a million 12 year old cs kids all cried out at once and were suddenly silenced by being rewarded with deadly braindead body shot dmg.
This part "screams" to my mind that you are getting mad cause it's not you who got the kills from the fight.
Of course I think that people who fight in melee deserve kills more than those who stand at distance and shoot at people who are fighting. You don't?
Same goes for cavalry who bump half of a group just to couch some poor sob from behind (enemy or teammate, you never know who's gonna die in those situations).
Essence of this game is melee fighting, it saddens me that so many of you don't get that.
But I would like removal of kill/death count. That would do wonders for teamplay and would balance players between various game modes a lot better.
Yeah, it wouldn't change things completely but it would certainly "cure" situations where half of a server see that Chase dude on top with 30/2 and instantly want to do the same as he does by shooting, hitting, couching recklessly.
There was a time when players of this mod didn't act like monkeys, I'm kinda said it's gone.
Of course I think that people who fight in melee deserve kills more than those who stand at distance and shoot at people who are fighting. You don't?
Same goes for cavalry who bump half of a group just to couch some poor sob from behind (enemy or teammate, you never know who's gonna die in those situations).
Essence of this game is melee fighting, it saddens me that so many of you don't get that.
But I would like removal of kill/death count. That would do wonders for teamplay and would balance players between various game modes a lot better.
Lesh, your post is full of fallacies. No one class deserves more kills than the other. The essence of the game is not melee fighting. The essence of the game is multiplayer medieval combat. That requires balance, not melee favoritism. The essence is melee, ranged, and mounted fighting all together, creating different scenarios where tactics and teamplay should be employed. Melee might be the essence of the game for you, but that doesn't make it the essence of the game for everyone.
Make archery have the same killing ability as melee an you have a full server of archers because the risk vs reward senario is stupid compared to melee inf...
I think the game is largely balanced right now.
Archery is pretty damn weak as it is, whenever i get hit it barely does any difference to me unless the stun fucks me up.
I always roll out the same argument without actually thinking about what it is I'm typing!
And one shot in 10 might find the right hitbox, so some games you might even get a possitive KDR, if you are REALLY lucky. The Joys of being an archer.
So you enjoy randomness? That's strange, I thought most players like to have their destiny under their control like most twohanders have when server isn't overpopulated by either ranged or cav.
Funny thing about you, so called "dedicated archers", is that more you "argue" the dumber you seem. Please, keep it up.
I've always found you a good and smart player Gravoth but this...
Explain to me how you receive little damage to ranged again.
2. Wearing a tight leather vest, and armed with the ability to fart custom-made armor-piercing rainbows, you sally forth to fight the metal behemoths. If any of them reach you, you run away. If another archer shoots you, you run away. If a crossbowman sees you stand still, you run away. If a horse, whether friend, foe, or runnin wild, bumps you, you jump out of the way, and then run away. Sometimes random throwers get within range, and if you don't shoot back: YOU RUN AWAY. All of this so that you can stand away from the actual battle, lob arrows into the melee blob, hit, stun and kill your friendlies and being a general pain in the ass for the other players!! One shot in 10 might actually find an enemy player, so some games you might even get a possitive K:TK, if you are REALLY lucky. The Joys of being an archer.
18 strength, 0 IF, 40 body armour on an alt. 80 % damage from one shot at medium range while not running towards the archer. Yes, archery is 'viable' again. :lol:
i forgot i made this thread,,,,, im lvl 34 , 21/21, 7if , 48/59/50 armor and 1 shield skill, dont tell me to take a shield you scrubs, dont tell me how to dodge archery maggots, and i will say once more archery has never been nerfed in this game, theyve jsut switched between ballanced and op the whole time, i dont understand, finaly wiht this build i could take 6 body shots and 1 headshot (buffed ) , a week later boom 3/4 shot in body 1 shot in head,, i got these fuckin light geared snipers hitting me harder then lancing cav paying shit money on upkeep, kiting and hshotting. terrain abbusing , and plz dont let me start about archers who decide to work together... and by archers i mean 2 of them.. only 2 of them is already enough for a fuckin stunlock powerhit nightmare. for all who decided to share your experience and try to describe how you think archery is fine , stop being a pub wanker , get in a clan , start learning teamplay, watch archery thrive beyond belief, come back to me , and say sorry.
I run in no loomed lamellar vest and no loomed leather gloves with 15 str 0 IF lvl 30, and archer shoots take less then half of mine hp. so if you talking here abpout some 8pd and more archers, then they miss alot, and they have slow shoot speed, and btw inf also have some 9-10 ps build who allways 1 hit kill many people in melee.
I've always found you a good and smart player Gravoth but this...
...makes me think. I get two-hit, three-hit at best by those fully loomed archers that in addition to being extremely powerful easily run away from me too (bagge, Zerobot etc.). I have 21 strength 5 IF and 50 body armour. Explain to me how you receive little damage to ranged again.
Does anyone know what kind of armor/hp combination you need to survive headshot from average archer at medium distance?
(click to show/hide)
Does anyone know what kind of armor/hp combination you need to survive headshot from average archer at medium distance?
Some screens I've taken since last patch. All are before any other damage taken, melee or otherwise, limb and torso shots (have yet to survive a headshot), and all shots where you can clearly see the projectile itself. All are of course including a probably substantial speed bonus because only fools don't move around in midst battle. High level and well-geared arbalest not included either as they also one-shot on torso.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
Some screens I've taken since last patch. All are before any other damage taken, melee or otherwise, limb and torso shots (have yet to survive a headshot), and all shots where you can clearly see the projectile itself. All are of course including a probably substantial speed bonus because only fools don't move around in midst battle. High level and well-geared arbalest not included either as they also one-shot on torso.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
They had a good idea about archery before, did it too harsh....and reverted it, again too harsh.
Please... ranged is still nerfed from where it was in the past.
You're right. Thankfully for us, you have no idea how strong archery once was. I bet your lobbying abilities would gain aditional three levels if you knew :lol:
I will say that coming from Native where ranged is overpowered by any definition of the word I think that ranged is pretty balanced here (and pretty hardcore for low and medium leveled archers), my main gripe is arbalests one-shotting people in expensive armor and generally high-level ranged being able to deal high damage over long distance while staying out of reach simply by continuously running away.
I'm gen 21 and have been playing this game for over a year. I've played archer at least 5 or 6 gens. Even if I wasn't here from "the beginning" I think I have a pretty good grasp on what the general balance of the game looks like.
Yes but in native, anyone can wield a 1h and shield, and a polearm and some throwing at the same time. And a shield is actually useful and you can't pew pew around it (or through it when i come to think of it).But ranged completely dominates inf anyway. I also only say 'pretty balanced' as in random battles on random servers without a majority of ranged (as you sometimes see on S4), if cRPG clans did what they do in Native and go 80%, or just 50%+ for that sake, ranged the game is effectively broken; any kind of organized mass ranged is obviously the strongest setup in as good as all situations.
I will say that coming from Native where ranged is overpowered by any definition of the word I think that ranged is pretty balanced here (and pretty hardcore for low and medium leveled archers), my main gripe is arbalests one-shotting people in expensive armor and generally high-level ranged being able to deal high damage over long distance while staying out of reach simply by continuously running away.
/thread...(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
...
I am sceptic about that pic...
but isnt that because he got shot in the leg, and the horse legs are more vulnerable since last patch?
Yes, that's right. Coursers are not particularly strong horse either. 18 body armor. If anything, that calls for a buff for horses. I'm ok with that.
If your main gripe is about arbelests, then complain about them in a Xbow thread, NOT an archery thread! Learn the DIFFERENCE :rolleyes:
I will say that coming from Native where ranged is overpowered by any definition of the word I think that ranged is pretty balanced here (and pretty hardcore for low and medium leveled archers), my main gripe is arbalests one-shotting people in expensive armor and generally high-level ranged being able to deal high damage over long distance while staying out of reach simply by continuously running away.
If you are being shot by anyone over a long distance and can't avoid it, try using the WASD keys because they make you move. There is not a single archer build that can hit someone over a long distance that doesn't want to be hit, period. The only people I hit are the ones who get hit, think to themselves "he can never make that shot again, its too far", don't move, and then get hit again, only to come here and whine about how much long distance shots need to be nerfed :shock: Not to mention, that an archer that can hit with PD 8 can't have over 5 athletics, and generally will have less. If you can't be assed to have an average amount of athletics, I can't be assed to feel sorry for you that you can't catch anyone. This idea that an archer can be both hard hitting and an olympic runner is pure heavy infantry propoganda.Long distance as in not up close like melee - did you really build all those lines of pseudo-argument up around your interpretation of that one word? I have 7 athletics as previously stated and all archers are in light armor. Bla. bla. bla. I seriously cannot be bothered replying to this, you obviously haven't really bothered to read any of my posts anyway.
Again with the strawmen, Rumblood? :P
Long distance as in not up close like melee. I have 7 athletics as previously stated and all archers are in light armor. Bla. bla. bla. I seriously cannot be bothered replying to this, you obviously haven't really bothered to read any of my posts anyway.
Also spare me the WB lesson :wink:
running) around making 360 ollie + 1shots to the leg.
The ollie is a skateboarding trick where the rider and board leap into the air without the use of the rider's hands
imo archers are currently OP.
Are you kidding, Rumblood, can you seriously not differentiate between a serious argument and such an obvious hyperbole?
Well, here is a crpg lesson: decent build catches archers, tanky build does not catch archers. Your choice bud.
blackbow, bagge, adalwolf, cupid, and the list goes on...
srsly i am actually playing an archer alt atm, lvl 28 atm, and shit , i can just run run, eazymod melee block myself out of trouble with my wooden stick (ok im probably better at blockin then the average player ) and shoot motherfucker the fuck uppp har har har , im sticking to this , its so fun, pew pew pew
I just respecced to archer, and I struggle to maintain 1:1 kdr. I get plenty of hits to assist teamies, but much fewer headshots and kills. Half my kills come from melee. I wear light armor (tribal warrior and only 50 hps) and other archers have to 2 or 3 shot me with arrows. Last night I took 4 arrows from a further distance and lived. It's not too powerful.Kills are not representative for skill with archery. Because your target is not within an arm length of you as it is when you're melee, they can get out of your way much more easily. Still you deal a lot of damage across the entire team, not only against a handful of targets like melee.
I'm very squishy and dies lots when I'm surprised, double teamed, or overwhelmed by long and powerful weapons. 2 melee hits pretty much always kill me.
Kills are not representative for skill with archery. Because your target is not within an arm length of you as it is when you're melee, they can get out of your way much more easily. Still you deal a lot of damage across the entire team, not only against a handful of targets like melee.
On my archer alt I have gotten oneshot and twoshot by archers so far. As a melee I can mostly take 3-5 archery bodyshots with 60 body armour and 64 hp. I have gotten 80% of my hp shot away by a single bodyshot. Archery is very powerful at times.
Not to mention the amount of times it fucks you over in melee when you have your upblock readied for an enemy great long axe, but then just get shot before it hits you.
Yes an 'unseen' strength of archery (or ranged in general) is their ability to deal damage to multiple targets that is not recognized in the scoreboards.
You need to understand that not all archer deal the same damage. Some are with 10 PD, some with 10 ATH that deal little damage and some people deal insane damage (Bagge, Zero Bot, Tiborur)
Gettin two shotted constantly with 50 bodyarmor, 18 str and 2 if.
TOTALLY TAKES SKILL AND MAKES SENSE.
Others are poor HA and have a PD of 5, are too poor to afford bodkin arrows and do significantly less damage. :oops:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197974489278/screenshot/524905218674813230?tab=public
says it all ;)
Its like a game!
lol, manipulate pictures to show what you want...pic has clearly been taken on duel serv, after each duel health resets but arrow stay. nice attempt
if it's irony, sorry but i didnt grasp it.
remy, i use barbed arrows and i do very fine on my HA :)
OBVIOUSLY thats not a battle pic man, Ppl are claiming they get 2 hit bodyshot with 50 armour, THATS A FUCKING LIE, unless they have run into a 39 STR archer with a MW longbow and bodkins, and there are not many of those about.
As you can see from the screenshots I've posted in this thread projectiles are able to two-shot a 50 torso armor guy with a decent amount of hitpoints - as long as it has a good speed bonus.
It is of course true that it doesn't happen all the time, as MrShine touches upon, and without a speed bonus (as when you for example test it on a duel server without the infantry running towards the archer) the damage output is much lower, in the case of my main inf character about 4-6 arrows from a decent archer.
Herp derp derp i fail at melee so i use a str build derp derp tried archer cant aim either derp derp derp...
OBVIOUSLY thats not a battle pic man, Ppl are claiming they get 2 hit bodyshot with 50 armour, THATS A FUCKING LIE, unless they have run into a 39 STR archer with a MW longbow and bodkins, and there are not many of those about.
booooooooooooooooobies
herpderp I can not read and try to make everything but my class look shitty because I have no skill to adjust.
OBVIOUSLY thats not a battle pic man, Ppl are claiming they get 2 hit bodyshot with 50 armour, THATS A FUCKING LIE, unless they have run into a 39 STR archer with a MW longbow and bodkins, and there are not many of those about.Happens to me occasionally with 60 body armour.
Happens to me occasionally with 60 body armour.
Thanks for proving my point of you being incapable to understand of what people write.
Start reading stuff more careful and think about what people tried to tell you before you type down a reply that does not even scratch what the other person said.
So what's your 135hp build?
Not even gonna keep arguing about the whole archer thing with you, just wondering how 135hp work out.
Sounds like an epic build.
Thanks for proving my point of you being incapable to understand of what people write.
Start reading stuff more careful and think about what people tried to tell you before you type down a reply that does not even scratch what the other person said.
So what's your 135hp build?
Not even gonna keep arguing about the whole archer thing with you, just wondering how 135hp work out.
Sounds like an epic build.
1. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore;u=455
2. Write in Tzar, click Add
3. ...
4. Profit!
Indeed. I've got 56 body armor, 21 str and 6 IF. Not too uncommon for me to have 60% of my health taken away from a single body shot, if it's at close range with one of the 2 slot bows.
I have 24 body armor and I don't die from one arrow, sometimes not even from two. I think that they reverted the change they did, it's not the stats what makes archery strong its ability to ignore armor. Dezilagel first found it in code, I bet they first "nerfed" archery by tweaking that part and then decided to revert it. There isn't much difference between HP loss of my 69 body armor and my light armor (24 BA).
All pierce weapons ignore armor to some point but that part was a bit excessive when it comes to bows and arrows.
It's like that from native too. You usually took 3 arrows in leather, and maybe four in the highest armour. :lol:not really they just went ranged because its the only way someone with lower skill can kill someone with higher skill
That's why a team losing 3-0 in a 5-round match usually went with a lot of ranged and crossfires to ignore the armour the other team had afforded by winning three rounds.
LETS BE REALISTIC: top dmg archers have 3/4 slot weapon, that cost more than any other weapon.
This is Warbow/longbow + bodkins (1 or 2)
I must channel all my WPF into this weapon, or I will endlessly kill my teammates beside/behind me.
I must keep faith when arrow go thru your chest/face/butt and into teammate/horse/wall/tree behind you.
I must keep trying after I see many arrow stuck in air above/below buckler. (How is this not fixed yet?)
I must make accurate and instant predictions as to the movement of teammates and enemy players/horses.
I must plan each move since my dmg output has long cooldown, and large speed debuff.
This weapon does NOT allow me to block.
This weapon does NOT allow me to chamber.
This weapon does NOT allow me infinite DMG output (Sword dont run out of ammo).
This weapon does NOT allow jump attacking.
This weapon does NOT allow use of heavy armour effectively.
This weapon does NOT allow use on horseback.
YOU STILL DONT GET IT: Archery is not OP, if you think so you havent understood the game yet = An archer's main weapon is not his bow, or his 1/0 slot sidearm, just as a 2hander's main weapon is NOT his sword. USE YOUR FUCKING HEAD.
Range isnt unblockable, shield. And it doesnt stun for longer than some things...............dezi......
It really seems when the archers are "responding" to things people say about their class type, they tend to just say: "It's not op", "archery is fine", "stop whining noobs" and "l2p". They don't actually come with any arguments. I have never said directly that archery is op, however I think archery needs a few fixes. These are:I think archers have responded well to plenty of posts/threads in the past, but it gets tiring to have to constantly defend yourself from the army of whiners.
Stuff
40 body armour, 18 strength, full health. One-hit by arrow. Enough said.
and people who will take 50-70% damage from one level 33 MW longbow MW bodkin user and come crying onto the forums with their 'proof' archery needs to be nerfed (ignoring or ignorant to the fact that they took negligible damage from 20 other arrows from different people in a map before that one high damage shot)... then what else can you say as an archer?
Didn't get the point
I wouldn't have mind 50 - 70 %. But 18 strength, 40 body armour and full health, one-hit to the body. How can you defend that? It's way too silly. If an arbalest had one-shot me, no problem, they have high reloading time and all. Archers get too many positives for too few negatives.
I wouldn't have mind 50 - 70 %. But 18 strength, 40 body armour and full health, one-hit to the body. How can you defend that? It's way too silly. If an arbalest had one-shot me, no problem, they have high reloading time and all. Archers get too many positives for too few negatives.
I wouldn't have mind 50 - 70 %. But 18 strength, 40 body armour and full health, one-hit to the body. How can you defend that? It's way too silly. If an arbalest had one-shot me, no problem, they have high reloading time and all. Archers get too many positives for too few negatives.
When you have people who are suggesting that archery damage doesn't stun opponents (..wut?) and people who will take 50-70% damage from one level 33 MW longbow MW bodkin user and come crying onto the forums with their 'proof' archery needs to be nerfed (ignoring or ignorant to the fact that they took negligible damage from 20 other arrows from different people in a map before that one high damage shot)... then what else can you say as an archer?
Claiming archery needs to be nerfed because you got 1 shot once is like if I claimed melee needs to get nerfed because I got 1 shot a few times.
You need to take a bunch of other stuff into account (who shot you/what was his build/what arrows did he use/were his items masterworked/how close were you to the archer/did speed bonus apply to him/ did you take the maximum amount of damage from the randomness of archery damage).
But happening once and happening consistently are two separate issues.
Again, archery is a completely different thing from melee, and different from crossbows and throwing too. I can live with getting one-shot by cav, in melee, by a throwing lance or by an arbalest, but not by an archer. An archer has too many pros to be able to one-shot medium infantry. Crossbows has high reloading time, throwing has low ammo, melee must be in the danger zone to even have a slight chance of making a one-hit. The archer can run and gun, have good kiting abilities, can easily dodge cav with their movement while still being able to shoot.
Low to medium range, not running towards him. He was not at an elevated position. I don't know his build though. However with mail hauberk, mail mittens , 18 strength and full health you should be able to survive one arrow.
Yes, it is, but archers should in no circumstances one-shot medium infantry except for headshots of course.
Yes, it is, but archers should in no circumstances one-shot medium infantry except for headshots of course.
40 body armour, 18 strength, full health. One-hit by arrow. Enough said.
I have 18 str 6 IF and 53 body armour, i dont remember ever being oneshot by a body shot. I would say 40 body armour and no IF is a pretty squishy build, and getting one-shot wouldnt be way too surprising.
40 body armor is not medium infantry. This is even not a light infantry.
40 WHOLE BODY ARMOR?! AND 18 WHOLE STRENGTH YOU ARE A FUCKING TITAN HOW COULD A PUNY ARROW BRING YOU DOWN?!
Take your arrogance someplace else. Like I said earlier, the one-shots from melee, cav, arbalest and throwing lances don't bother me. I know it's not the most armored build out there and accept those, however the archers shouldn't because they have enough pros already. Being able one-shot light to medium inf in addition to the reload speed and kiting is just bullshit.
Either way, 18 str 40 body armor and you died in one shot to something... Really? Go figure.
Like I said earlier, the one-shots from melee, cav, arbalest and throwing lances don't bother me.
Yes, it is, but archers should in no circumstances one-shot medium infantry except for headshots of course.
40 body armor is not called medium infantry, should be light-medium. Also who shot you? Is it bagge? (Please do not include him in any list)
MW rus bow and MW bodkin is like what? 33 pierce = you shoot an awlpike per arrow, yes yes... buff archery please, especially so that archers with loomed shit can start shooting throwing lances. Pjupju.
Never said buff it, my point is him being oneshot while in sub-par hp and armour was a freak occurence.
Not really, I've been one shot by awlpikes a lot, so archers with the same damage potential it's not that odd it would happen.
You probably got shot by an archer on an elevated position, closerange, moving towards him, and he got lucky with your sub-par armour chance.
Low to medium range, not running towards him. He was not at an elevated position. I don't know his build though. However with mail hauberk, mail mittens , 18 strength and full health you should be able to survive one arrow.
You have only 40 armour (average is about 50) which is low end for a melee user, and 18str with no IF so hardly expected to be durable.
Yes, fully clad in mail is definitely not even light infantry. This mod has obviously turned into a bunch of armor crutchers
Stupid Gurnisson thinking that this mod could possibly be about anything else than LOOOOOOMS!!!!!11!
Your main Gurni is an awlpiker that gets two shot by MW rus MW bodkin arrows with similar damage potential, I must say I find it rather amusing :) however also disgusting that archers can get such a stupidly high amount of pierce damage.
So, you wanna have lightest nonloomed armor, 0 IF and be effective against fully loomed (bow\arrows) archer?
What a dumb mod, if six heirloom points from a high PD can defeat a low-spectrum 0 heirloomed mail outfit protecting a non-durable melee build.
Your main Gurni is an awlpiker that gets two shot by MW rus MW bodkin arrows with similar damage potential, I must say I find it rather amusing :) however also disgusting that archers can get such a stupidly high amount of pierce damage.
give us the videos or i will never believe in that, i with mw arb and mw steel bolts only have little chance to 1 shot 40 body 18 str, and probably it was some sebastian with all loomed lvl 34 archer woth 10 pd .I dont think it was me.
Medium + should always be 2shot tho, except for headshots.
What?
Getting 2-shot by anything not a max PD build is insane. Do you have any idea of how much effort it takes to get past some people's blocks nowadays?
What?
Getting 2-shot by anything not a max PD build is insane. Do you have any idea of how much effort it takes to get past some people's blocks nowadays?
i think it is normal if archers can easy kill some 2h or poledude, because archers cant do much vs shielders, so o think you want be protected against archer then take more armor or shiled, shield on back reduced range dmg in your back anyway, archers have pretty crap dmg to arms and legs. so in danger will stay only head and body, come on stop cry then, btw ranged have DMG PENALTY in rain .
The "get a shield" argument is so lame and sooooooo very much 2010. Really, we've been over that one many times, you can even add the slot argument nowadays. :rolleyes:
and ath is nerfed when rain i think
Then i prefer reload time longer for me, then to have crap dmg when it is rain, because inf has still same dmg.
It sucked in 2010 even.
True story.
Most Pole and 2handers are just butthurt that when they DO get ganked, if a gankist is an archer they cannot ROFLCOPTER their mouse around while they attack, hoping to catch someone in their swing, wether they are aware of their location and action or not.
I think that we all agree that achery needs one heathly nerf.
Well, the only problem is the piercing imo. (and kiting though, but that's just fixing something that is fucking annoying, silly and stupid, not really nerfing) Right now I can take about the same amount of arrows whether I'm in 45 armor or 25. It's always 2 body shots or one head shot. I think it should be a difference there. So, just make bodkins do 6 cut and it's all fixed.
Most frustrating element is that archers can easily 1 or two shot at range while 1 or two shotting in melle is rare, even when using a high damage weapon such as a flamberge or a morningstar.
Why should an arrow to the face get a higher damage buff than any melee weapon? This is a complete failure of both logic and balance.
Most frustrating element is that archers can easily 1 or two shot at range while 1 or two shotting in melle is rare, even when using a high damage weapon such as a flamberge or a morningstar.
Why should an arrow to the face get a higher damage buff than any melee weapon? This is a complete failure of both logic and balance.
Most frustrating element is that archers can easily 1 or two shot at range while 1 or two shotting in melle is rare, even when using a high damage weapon such as a flamberge or a morningstar.
Why should an arrow to the face get a higher damage buff than any melee weapon? This is a complete failure of both logic and balance.
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I have a solution!!! Make all bows unsheatable (not crossbows). If archer gets into trouble and wants to use his side weapon to block hits, he has to drop his bow to the ground. No more running---> shooting---> blocking few hits---> runnin again---> repeat. They would be forced to pick up that bow again if they want to go back into shooting mode.
Bet it is if you headshot, and is much easier than 1 shotting someone in the same armour with a mighty morningstar?
I have been thinking something like this for a while: make all bows 1slot, the top 2 unsheathable. Although this will probbaly make the 21 agi and 24 agi archers run EVEN MOREYes, but if archers are kept this powerful then they should have bigger risks. High gain -> high risk, just like any other class. One thing would be nerfing their running speed and make them think more because they wouldn't be outrunning everyone so easilly. I'm talking about small tweaking here. If they are able to oneshot people, then there is no reason to give them immortality by letting them run as they please in the field. Just like cav (regardless horse leg hit bonus) is effective when the player knows what to do, so would archers be even if the values are adjusted.
But one of the currently unbalancing factors of archers is the damage buff they receive through headshots.
I might not be a very good player, but i know how often my morningstar one hits people.
I think that we all agree that achery needs one heathly nerf.not at fucking all
But one of the currently unbalancing factors of archers is the damage buff they receive through headshots.
I might not be a very good player, but i know how often my morningstar one hits people.
Archery is balanced right now.for success.
Headshots are really powerful, but they are really hard to get so its not that big of a deal.
The only reason I ever die from archers is if I already got battered up badly in melee and an archer finished me off.
I'd rather have body shot damage back
Whinning isn't a word.
You got it, as well as a buff to headshot damage. However, you lost damage on the limbs.
670 hours of crpg and whinning like a boss :rolleyes:
~1500 hours here. Whining like a Lord :D~1100 here. Whining like a peasant for getting archerbukkake every round :mrgreen:
what rufio is mad about is not that archery is too strong. It's that when i'm on I always just aim at him and i'm sure other archers do as well just to piss him off :O
if you have less than 2k hours on crpg you REALLY need to l2pBtw are you NA or EU? Just asking.
if you have less than 2k hours on crpg you REALLY need to l2pI have like 900 lol
i forgot i made this thread,,,,, im lvl 34 , 21/21, 7if , 48/59/50 armor and 1 shield skill, dont tell me to take a shield you scrubs, dont tell me how to dodge archery maggots, and i will say once more archery has never been nerfed in this game, theyve jsut switched between ballanced and op the whole time, i dont understand, finaly wiht this build i could take 6 body shots max or 1 headshot (buffed ) , a week later boom 2/3/4 shot in body 1 shot in head,, i got these fuckin light geared snipers hitting me harder then lancing cav paying shit money on upkeep, kiting and hshotting. terrain abbusing , and plz dont let me start about archers who decide to work together... and by archers i mean 2 of them.. only 2 of them is already enough for a fuckin stunlock powerhit nightmare. for all who decided to share your experience and try to describe how you think archery is fine , stop being a pub wanker , get in a clan , start learning teamplay, watch archery thrive beyond belief, come back to me , and say sorry.
Dunno if it has been posted yet:
Arrows have a range penalty, the longer they fly the less damage they deal. Those numbers you get from your calculator are only applying when you shoot your enemy from inside of them. A few meters are all it needs to cut this damage in half.
K thx bye
Dunno if it has been posted yet:
Arrows have a range penalty, the longer they fly the less damage they deal. Those numbers you get from your calculator are only applying when you shoot your enemy from inside of them. A few meters are all it needs to cut this damage in half.
K thx bye
so you think this makes it alright?? you think commenting this is in favour of archers ? if ever it only shows how bs it is: basicly long>hard>shots dont do alot of damage... but short>eazy>shots do tons of damage.... ooh weeee that makes it all ok , and cool , yeeeessssssssssssss!!!
this is it : archers sticking close to infantry, getting protected by infantry, while moving though the map , will... rape.... everything....
archers holding up on a safe spot ( cliff side or some other terrain advantage) will get some hits in maybe some kills,, till people get close to them and then.. will... rape.... everything.....
Yes archers rape everything, which is why they are always topping scoreboards everywhere with their super damage 1-shot melee range kills.This. Very much this. The gist of what I hear in this thread is "hi im a 2h pure please nerf archery to the ground so i can be even more powerful than I am already kthnx XD". Most of the people don't even have numbers or proof they just spout idiocy every chance they get and "claim" to be one shotted from 9001 yards away in the pinky toe with a short bow.
The irony is if something changed to make archers more damaging at distance instead of close range people (like you) would be raging when you take lots of damage from "that archer a million miles away that could sit on his hill and destroy us".
Close range does more damage but is far more dangerous for the archer.
so you think this makes it alright?? you think commenting this is in favour of archers ? if ever it only shows how bs it is: basicly long>hard>shots dont do alot of damage... but short>eazy>shots do tons of damage.... ooh weeee that makes it all ok , and cool , yeeeessssssssssssss!!!
this is it : archers sticking close to infantry, getting protected by infantry, while moving though the map , will... rape.... everything....
archers holding up on a safe spot ( cliff side or some other terrain advantage) will get some hits in maybe some kills,, till people get close to them and then.. will... rape.... everything.....
im just gonna ignore these na players for now, since they seem to be playing a dif game. xynox you should play melee for abit, i think as an archer you get shot more while standing still, it seems that getting hit while moving sometimes really spikes the damage in weird ways.. ah well im still hoping for a slight ballancing , archery is close to being right this time thow. just seems dif armors dont really matter on damage received to hp, and the overall body damage is still slightly to high. thats m/o ,and its based on exessive playing of all classes (except throwing havent played that alot)
archery is ruining this game again , ty
... i think il just have to make a fraps movie to show you guys how overly op archers are once you start playing like a team, and sorry i dont think you scrubs have that experience of being on ts with 3/4 archers and 4/5 melee, ( or bigger numbers) . i can tell you once the melee start defending the archers, and holding / pushing pursuers back, oh my god then you start to open your eyes, and ofc it should be like this ...
Yesterday I got oneshot by an archer the first time EVER ( after being peasant of course ). I gotta say that I have 0 IF and like 7 bodyarmor though and this guy has a +3 longbow. If you think you got oneshotted by a bow with 40 armor or more you maybe should reduce your drug consumption, that might help getting rid of the pink flying horses too.
On that part I can only approve. IF melees WOULD cooperate with archers = eternal x5. Sadly, on a public game this happens almost NEVER. Im not even kidding. The moments I can remember melees doing something in favor for archers, I can count them on one hand. 99% friendly melees will just aimlessly run at targets you are shooting at and start spazzing around, making clean shots almost impossible, in fact helping the enemy team. If they would just backpaddle and block, ideally with a shield, the chance of getting a clean headshot rises from about 5% to 90%. Everytime they just charge like lemmings I can almost hear them thinking "L4WLZ, STUP1DE my old friendCHA TRYING TO SHOOT, IMA STEEL HIS KILLZ WOLOLOLO, my old friendCHA DOEZ NOT DESERVE MA K1LL" and then they fuck up. This is especially critical with enemy shielders. Once a shielder rises his shield in the ruff direction of an archer, he wont be able to hit him anymore at all. So when your melee mate dies in a duel you lost the game. The only thing you can do is to hope that your mate wins the duel or you take the risk and shoot into melee. With coop although = insta win.
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Well, it's not a joke. Bagge with takes 80 % on my 40 body armor, 18 str character and he's got 6 PD. Considering the one-shots I've received has been from a long bow I guess it's a loomed guy with 7-8 PD. He didn't have any leverage advantage or serious speed bonus (running sideways) so I dunno. Being one-shot on that character is a freak thing though I'll admit, but I can't remember the last time I had two arrows in me and still running. Paying the price for 0 IF. :P
People are stupid, it's that simple. I often try to help good archers and I appreciate help to fend off cavalry on my archer alt. Just the other day I had Mustikki following me with an awlpike which made the job a lot more easier. I didn't have to worry about cav and the incoming infantry would get an awlpike as well as an arrow to the face/body. Good times. :)
I can show you my character with 39 bodyarmor and 4-5 arrows. Yes, with triple loomed mail mittens and tribal warrior outfit. And I have mighty 55hp.
And even more - I was shooted many times by Sebastian with his 10pd build, and his shots take 50-80% of my health.
Are you sure that it was bodyshot? Because you can get headshot with arrow in neck or shoulder.
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Well, it's not a joke. Bagge with takes 80 % on my 40 body armor, 18 str character and he's got 6 PD. Considering the one-shots I've received has been from a long bow I guess it's a loomed guy with 7-8 PD. He didn't have any leverage advantage or serious speed bonus (running sideways) so I dunno. Being one-shot on that character is a freak thing though I'll admit, but I can't remember the last time I had two arrows in me and still running. Paying the price for 0 IF. :P
He raped everyone with his arrows, not just me. And then came that particular map and archers grew gills...a-ha. Your fault that you didn't put 100 wpf into Polearm.
Off-topic:
Free wpf simply has to go. I'm sick of being a fool with 8 points in WM and having just 40-50 more wpf than someone who didn't put anything in WM. That's bullshit.
Dunno about Bagge's damage, seems regular to me. However, yesterday I was playing on one of the smaller servers and there was one archer, Coldblooded_Revenant or something like that. 1. ( Dunno what's his PD but he hits like a truck and is very precise as well. ) Although I have just one shield skill and use Old Heater shield I'm able to block plenty of arrows with it 2. ((even the best archers have problems hitting me when my shield is up)). 3. ( This guy first hit me in the face while I was holding my shield as high as possible ), next thing he ruined my shield in just two shots (can usually take 10 or more, he must have 10 PD) 4. ( and 2 hit raped me most of the time ) (69 body armor). 5. ( He should either deal damage or be precise. ) Having both at the same time is silly.
This isn't just regular archery whine, this is nerf STR whine. It seems that STR builds work very well with archery, again...
im just gonna ignore these na players for now, since they seem to be playing a dif game.
the question is is accuracy really random or can it be timed..
When using a bow you can either hold your mousebutton or click it. When clicked it will release the arrows as soon as possible = max accuracy. While clickshooting with a longbow, missing stationary targets at mid range is something you cant prevent, no matter how much wpf you have. Its just some sort of gamble sometimes. This also applies to other bows of course, but the longbow is the one most affected by this randomness because of the additional animation-bug-debuff.
Clickshooting isnt the most accurate, its about half a second after that. But still, I can tell you: With over 160 wpf on a +3 longbow, even point blank shots miss sometimes, similar but not so bad with warbow. You can be stood still, not having fired recently so your Xhair is small, and pull back and release an arrow at an enemy so close they COMPLETELY fill your reticule several times over, and it is STILL not guaranteed hit.
Combine that with: mid-animation hitboxes not being anywhere near the model, arrows sometimes passing completely through players, bucklers and shields that intercept arrows in the air, the odd random arrow that goes into warp drive and vanishes: Melee have it MUCH easier than it should be; archers sometimes get lucky, but always get whined at by players who think because they can block and attack they know how to play the game.
EDIT: I remember a time, after the wpf - weight reductions and the slot system, I could play as attacker on siege without even using a melee weapon, shooting everything that came at me as I walked to flag, and there was STILL only half as much WHINE about it. Then all the crying got worse so I traded for melee weapons: The only ranged that is bothersome is throwing, because nowadays the accuracy on pure thrower isnt that much worse than archers, and their DPS is ridiculously higher. And crossbows ingame are the same as real life: So bundle of sticksy that the Pope banned them from being used to shoot Christians, they are just SO gay, why would u spend half your time in a fluid combat sim, standing still, bent over? makes no sense.
Clickshooting isnt the most accurate, its about half a second after that.
seems that alot of archers use ''longbow'' specificaly to say archers are ballanced... but most archers use horn or rusbow... making argument pretty much irrelivant imo, but ye cant wait to start shooting movie and have evidence to wave in yo smug faces :3
atm the team with the most/best archers wins
Really? I have lost alot of battles because we had too many archers and infantry got overrun instantly.
As cavalry(HA) I have also lost several times due to the infantry dieing, with our team having more cavalry or archers but not enough infantry.
Funny guys you GK. It's more like you can't win any battle because in a real battle the enemy won't just stay idle in spawn ready for you to couch them.
What's the record for archer running away? Tonight me and Elio followed some Fallen guy, Sjanta for more than 2 minutes I think.
I currently have a record of dehorsing a guy before even the first tick at 30 seconds, and him chasing me until shot at the back at round end with only a little over a minute left on the timer.
Did ranged got buff again? They are pretty dangerous against me now, a jarid took 90% of my hp in 1 throw and sometime I get one throw- perman death. 2 arrow from longbow / rus bow can kill my courser and just 1 steel bolt from an arbalest will kill 95% of my horse hp. Did they got buff after this newest patch?
Throwing weapons now cause perma-death?
Holy shit nerf throwing!
level 28 with 0 ps, so my melee skills and level dont come into it . I was 2 shotting most people, with the str builds taking 3 hits. But dont nerf its pretty balanced
Just respecced to archer last night and i have come to the conclusion that archery is very hard and dosn't need any nerfsHe has my bow :)(click to show/hide)
Sarcasm intended
Ok well now we are up to three high score photos from archers. Stacked against... about a billion similarly high scores from melee and cavalry players.I suppose the point i was trying to make is that ive played a 2h and other melee class's for a very long time and i have never had problems with range. Yes i would die to them and rage sometimes but i never really thought of them as op or game changing. But since ive actually played archer and seen how easy it is for a supposedly support class to get such easy kills i can see how they are considered to be a bit op.
Im still suprised everytime when I read people get one/two shotted by bows n stuff when I need 5 loomed bodkins from a longbow per target with 8 PD on average. How to get this hidden +200% dmg hack ?
Im still suprised everytime when I read people get one/two shotted by bows n stuff when I need 5 loomed bodkins from a longbow per target with 8 PD on average. How to get this hidden +200% dmg hack ?Perhaps you are an fail archer and only 1 out of 5 arrows hits?
Perhaps you are an fail archer and only 1 out of 5 arrows hits?
Im still suprised everytime when I read people get one/two shotted by bows n stuff when I need 5 loomed bodkins from a longbow per target with 8 PD on average. How to get this hidden +200% dmg hack ?
are you kidding me a horse archer just took 80% of my hp with 2 arrows. 18 str, 3 if and 54 body armor here.
Im still suprised everytime when I read people get one/two shotted by bows n stuff when I need 5 loomed bodkins from a longbow per target with 8 PD on average. How to get this hidden +200% dmg hack ?
I need 3, sometimes 4 shots now for people with 43 body armour with 7pd, 8wm, mw longbow and mw bodkins.
Im still suprised everytime when I read people get one/two shotted by bows n stuff when I need 5 loomed bodkins from a longbow per target with 8 PD on average.
Just respecced to archer last night and i have come to the conclusion that archery is very hard and dosn't need any nerfs(click to show/hide)
Sarcasm intended
If even Royanns could get a 19 / 3 score.... well. fail team is fail :DAlthough the whole post is kinda sad, Royanns is a very consistent top scoring player on EU_1. Such scores are quite normal for him.
I got 52 armor and got 1 shot kill by an arbalest just today
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Quote from: AlexTheDragon on Today at 16:12:42
I got 52 armor and got 1 shot kill by an arbalest just today
arrows are so slow that even an incoming horse has no problems do dodge them anymore. Even some cav players admitted that
Always whining about rus bow, eh? I prefer both long bow and horn bow over it tbh. Maybe a small(!) buff to long bow missile speed would even it more out... along with a small nerf to all bows :wink:
You just brought Hell on Calradia... Please don't tell the noobs how to shoot ye arrows :((click to show/hide)
No because it's the arrow head that determines the type of damage whether cut or pierce. Everything could be solved in crpg with the so calld dreaded stamina bar....all bows same draw speed but make the longbow require more stamina like it actually did in history. Would also stop noob 2h spammers woops I said it :evil:
Actually could be interesting to make a new skill called stamina. It would be 1 per every 3 str/agi points (meaning that it wouldn't be tied to either one, because it would be shitty if only agi builds would get stamina or only str builds would get stamina.) However this would require to balance every goddamn weapon in the game again... Too much work me thinks...
yeaaaa I don't think the "sweetspot" works quite like that, but sure continue to be delusional and think archers are some sort of sub-gamer group.
im getting the hang of it on my archer char....ROFL you like dragonforce. When you got grownup musical tastes you can have growup opinions too! Im being mean, but your silly nonsensical shit about archery is a big LOL.
Actually could be interesting to make a new skill called stamina. It would be 1 per every 3 str/agi points (meaning that it wouldn't be tied to either one, because it would be shitty if only agi builds would get stamina or only str builds would get stamina.) However this would require to balance every goddamn weapon in the game again... Too much work me thinks...
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YAY! Stamina bar! Tie it to both STR and AGI! Then 18/21 build get 13! 15/24 build get....13! 21/18 get....13! YAY WE ALL GET THE SAME! So lets save ourselves the bother and not have one! WOO! Already we have made progress. Honestly, 2dimensional pole spammers need to think before they type...I stopped reading right there...
ROFL you like dragonforce. When you got grownup musical tastes you can have growup opinions too! Im being mean, but your silly nonsensical shit about archery is a big LOL.
BlindGuy at his best. yeah, high tier bows use three slots and are clearly the most expensive weapons in the game. Biased and ignorant this one :lol:
BlindGuy at his best. yeah, high tier bows use three slots and are clearly the most expensive weapons in the game. Biased and ignorant this one :lol:Yeah seems like someone else needs to think before posting too :D. And...
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SMOKING chadz!
I'll immediately pay you 1 million gold Gurnisson, if you kill someone with two slot Longbow\warbow without arrows.
ROFL you like dragonforce. When you got grownup musical tastes you can have growup opinions too! Im being mean, but your silly nonsensical shit about archery is a big LOL.
Stamina would ruin game for shielders, spammers
That way they could be encouraged to put points in melee.This would probably just encourage me to make as specialized of an archer build as possible to be honest.
That's a load of bull tears, and you know it.
I said before but again I find it ironic people are suggesting archers gain more ability to perform in melee, when the slot/sheathing system was a key nerf to the melee abilities of archers, partly brought about because people were complaining that an archer could bust out a bigass sword while still being effective at ranged.
I understand the idea behind suggesting archers get more melee abilities - less incentive to run - but in reality what is going to happen is twofold:
- archers will continue to do what gives them the best chance at success, ie shoot first melee second. Running will still occur in many situations if the archer has low powerstrike/armor and runs into a tincan.
- players will continue to whine, because now they will call archers OP due to their effectiveness at range and in melee.
I said before but again I find it ironic people are suggesting archers gain more ability to perform in melee, when the slot/sheathing system was a key nerf to the melee abilities of archers, partly brought about because people were complaining that an archer could bust out a bigass sword while still being effective at ranged.
This honestly does irritate me. I remember the forums full of constant whine over archers being able to melee, and people mixing up Pure Archers with Hybrids and thinking that everyone could shoot as fine as a Pure and melee as well as the PS-heavy hybrids at the same time...
I actually had a sizeable amount of PS, held my ground when approached, and used a Miaodao before the endless whining caused melee to be nerfed from archers due to the slot system. Now I am 100% pure, and happy.
This honestly does irritate me. I remember the forums full of constant whine over archers being able to melee, and people mixing up Pure Archers with Hybrids and thinking that everyone could shoot as fine as a Pure and melee as well as the PS-heavy hybrids at the same time...
I actually had a sizeable amount of PS, held my ground when approached, and used a Miaodao before the endless whining caused melee to be nerfed from archers due to the slot system. Now I am 100% pure, and happy.
This honestly does irritate me. I remember the forums full of constant whine over archers being able to melee, and people mixing up Pure Archers with Hybrids and thinking that everyone could shoot as fine as a Pure and melee as well as the PS-heavy hybrids at the same time...
Yep yep.Also game needs new maps! *cool interesting new maps added* 'downvote this shit new map so we can play the same old boring map over and over again!'*
"Archers shouldn't be able to stand and fight! Take their weapons away!"
"Now stand and fight you cowards!"
only prob is that with hybrid archers i still get kited, but then the archer can unexpectedley turn arround and 1shot me with a timed headslash,, ofc you can say, well you should block then, but somewhere in my heart i think its unfair, not unballanced
only prob is that with hybrid archers i still get kited, but then the archer can unexpectedley turn arround and 1shot me with a timed headslash,, ofc you can say, well you should block then, but somewhere in my heart i think its unfair, not unballanced
read till the end of scentence my dear child
Id have no problem with arrows being chamberblockable
To sum up this and the bazillion other threads, archers should ...NOT be allowed to be effective at range, because its unfair that they dont have to get into melee range... right ?
v
NOT be allowed to be effective at melee combat, because they are already effective at range
v
NOT be allowed to run fast, as their ranged and melee capabilities are more effective than enough to attack and defend them selfes
v
NOT be allowed to wear heavy armor as they already can run fast
so in fact
NOT be allowed to be good at ANYTHING because they are already OP at EVERYTHING
Wait ... something seems to be wrong here ?!(click to show/hide)
The only problem i have with archers is that the counter for melee is shield. If you were are shield you are to slow to catch them.
So you have 2 options:
1. Dont carry a shield and be able to kill the archer but you will probably be shot down.
2. Carry a shield and protect vs archers but then you are no more able to catch them cause you are to slow. ;)
Archers could be much stronger if they wouldnt be able to kite so much.
silly Neresto tha'ts why you get a few points into throwing like Guard_Dlion has. He gets me enough of the time when I try to turn tail and run. If the throwing axe doesn't kill me it will stun me and he can catch up for another throw or go into melee mode :rolleyes:
So your suggested counter to ranged is... Ranged?
arrows are chamberblockable? is that a stab attack one is chambering then?
@XyNox' summarizing post, I think those things are just different solutions to archery put together all at once. I think the only change archery needs is a loss of the ability to kite like that. A lot of people think archers have too much damage and accuracy on high levels, but as long as they can't kite and shoot and kite and shoot it's really ok that they can 2 shot 95% of the players or 1 shot on lucky head shots. Just make athletics reduce the archery wpf or something. Then they would always stay slightly slow, and they can keep their accuracy and high damage. Then people could go for HA if they wanna kite and shoot.
This is for shields, for 2 handers i'd suggest hiding behind the shielder. Problem with crpg is the whining and the lack of teamwrok that would reduce the whine :O
How does hiding behind a shielder that cannot catch the archer kill the archer for the 2h?Lol +1.
2. Carry a shield and protect vs archers but then you are no more able to catch them cause you are to(sic.) slow. ;)
stay out of my thread you bridge lurking cunt
I believe damage output from archery is ok but sometimes I'm astonished by losing 75% hp to a limbshot! how come?
insane amount of archers on eu 1 :/Per cmp's stats:
insane amount of archers on eu 1 :/
Same goes for cav :/
the amount of archers are obviously more than CAV, just because you got raped by GK in siege you shouldn't really rage :lol:
Same goes for cav :/
kind fo ture
so if you could get your buddies firing on cav, both lobbies would be happy! agree? :p
Get your buddies to provide the longspear cover, and we have a deal. :mrgreen:
Why is this a problem, when cavalry can run away forever? Been a number of times I've seen a single lancer ride around refusing to engage the 3 or 4 melee with spears and without ranged, they can't touch him.
So, what is the difference?
Melee needs to get over their sense of entitlement.
Dont even mention the guy on a cataphract with a hunting crossbow...
I was playing on EU_1 and EU_4 and and and... Then my head got filled with rage and I smell a secret ranged buff minipatch AAAAAA! Then I came here because I'm so angry!!! FFFFFFUUUUUU!!! You got me again rangers.. (I bet my grinding to get lvl 30 again is making me like this...)(click to show/hide)
Gisbert used to be able to make Skyrim Retirement jokes, but then he took an arrow to the knee.
Gisbert used to be able to make Skyrim Retirement jokes, but then he took an arrow to the knee.
guyz why you at? there's an insane amount on cav lately and no archer to be seen! did you all respec cav or what?
yea but strangely, i see ahrdly any and cav everywhere, join eu1
Not too enthusiastic about battle myself atm. I would play it more often when some inmy old friendtry would finally learn that standing motionless next to friendly archers watching them die is not the best way to prevent the whole team getting gayvalry'd after. Sadly most of the time this seems to be the case.Butthurt?
Butthurt?(click to show/hide)
Lack of teamplay really makes me butthurt. But you sure your not butthurt because I kept 2 shotting you off your pony in your loomed armor as you QQ'ed the other day ? You should just not come at me like this brahw.Lack of teamplay sucks.. Agreed. Dunno who was 2 shotting me the other day but it was so gay! Just wait until I reach lvl 30 and get more ironflesh...
Lack of teamplay sucks.. Agreed. Dunno who was 2 shotting me the other day but it was so gay! Just wait until I reach lvl 30 and get more ironflesh...
Not too enthusiastic about battle myself atm. I would play it more often when some inmy old friendtry would finally learn that standing motionless next to friendly archers watching them die is not the best way to prevent the whole team getting gayvalry'd after. Sadly most of the time this seems to be the case.
You had no shield, the terrain worked to my advantage yet you still charged me upfront.
stop crying please.NERF!
My archer hate sometimes grows so huge I just go all OOOODIIIINVALHALLLAAA BERSERK- style against you all. Can you blame me?(click to show/hide)
It was EU4 then I guess ...Offtopic continues:
Offtopic continues:
I'm not sure but it feels like shit to die into a situation like that after you successfully kill Kinngrimm and some other guys in melee who tried to gank you... I had 1hp left because the fight was pretty intense and I probably would have died if someone punched me once. Only me and HA left at that point so I camped behind tree, waiting for flags. Flags came right where I was, but then the evil horsearcher came to harrass me with the arrows he had collected for quite some time already :(. I struggled couple minutes and dodged his every arrow and when the final minute was closing in he charged and managed to have a lucky shot after ~20 unsuccessful ones... Can you imagine how much it sucks to die like that after you just slaughtered 3 skilled men ganking on you and felt like the king of all crpg and then some random no skill delayer HA beats you and there is nothing you can do about it!? :D
Sorry if someone recognises himself from this story... I just think HA must have been poorly skilled, having lags or low level because he couldnt hit anything... It was a LUCK SHOT! There you have it... I just had to write this somewhere...
You never know if your shot will miss the target one foot to the right or hit dead center unless you aint got a lvl 33 build with a +3 rusbow and crutch massive archery wpf. You never know if in the 1 - 2 seconds the slow moving arrow takes to reach its destination your target-movement follows as predicted. Even if you could see everything 10 times slower and have a computer in your head instead of a brain, you still have to rely on pure luck sometimes, or just hope that your enemy has no clue how to effectivly dodge projectiles (which many dont have thankfully).
With these pityfull archery mechanics, plus the fact that you cant kill anyone in a melee fight it was only a matter of time people began to construct their builds around running away from the enemy and kiting instead of fighting them. Dont assume we actually LIKE running away from the enemy, the game simply does not offer any other option to us. There is simply no point in hitting you with my 0 PS 0 slot weapon just to watch it bounce off your mid-armor. Yet we cant affort putting points into PS as this would mean even less accuracy or even less damage and missile speed. Pure archers are simply useless at melee and are not devastating at range either unless fully loomed and extremly high skilled. But they are there and that means with the current mechanics, the only way to counter them is to defent your own ranged which almost NEVER happens.
I even went kind of hybrid this gen with a HBS to my hip so I can shoot and slice up things alike to make up for the general lack of melee support, but due to the build limitations im not very accurate nor hard hitting at range and in melee almost everyone can outspam me. And then again I cant carry enough ammo with me to give range support everytime its needed or shoot down horses. Im not expecting to get a build that is superior at close and long range fighting simultaniously but archers sure need anything that gives them the abillity and a fair chance to FIGHT instead of DELAY when enemies get close like it is the case right now or give them more accuracy and missile speed at range but make em dead meat when someone gets close so its more about strategic positioning. You will see once there is an actual gain from power draw again, people will stop whoring ath to run away, as their bow is not a reliable tool for killing at range anyway right now.
You're an archer stacking PD, right? I had no problem hitting people with an 18/21 build and it still inflicts severe damage. Complaining about not having great accuracy while going for power? Shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too (but you already get that if you loom a rus/horn with an 18/21 build. Great damage and great kiting abilities in one build) PD over 6 is quite bad, I would say.
You're an archer stacking PD, right? I had no problem hitting people with an 18/21 build and it still inflicts severe damage. Complaining about not having great accuracy while going for power? Shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too (but you already get that if you loom a rus/horn with an 18/21 build. Great damage and great kiting abilities in one build) PD over 6 is quite bad, I would say.
You make a stupid build to get some milliseconds faster draw and almost not noticeable better accuracy. 18/21 with leather, 5 ps, 5 ath, 7 wm at level 30 rocked. Held my ground in melee if I wanted to, ran and gunned if I wanted to, killed easily at range if I wanted to. Don't blame the game for your own choices.
Grab a langes messer/fighting axe instead of a HBS for more arrows. You won't be outspammed by people with a HBS if you have semi-decent footwork, even with 1 wpf. I've used 1 wpf weapons a lot on my archer and it's never the lack of WPF that makes me get hit by a double-attack. As I mentioned above, 18/21 with 5 ps, 5 ath and 7 wm at level 30 gives you good melee capabilities but also makes you deadly at range.
Archers are strong, by all means, but they're not really deserving of a great nerf. Maybe a bit of a weight increase on bows to have the 18/21 and 18/24 builds not covering everything. Also, please don't blame the game for your choice. I see so many archers whining about not being able to be effective in melee which is a joke, it's perfectly viable. Cupid is a decent example of an archer that does it effectively.
You missed the point:
The paragraph just points out that archery in general with relatively low accuracy and slow missile speeds in this mod is more luck dependent than melee due to many random factors. Technically your statement is correct to some degree but the arrangement of skillpoint and their given effects is not to be discussed in this context, as this part is but a premise to why shotgunning is more effective than using archery as an actual ranged fighting class. What you write again is the very root of the problem; there is no way to achieve high PD without making yourself ineffective in the same move because of the huge drop in accuracy. If I can choose between a build that can kill the target in 1 hit but only hits on every 5. shot or a build that can hit the enemy 5 times in a row but needs 5 arrows to kill and is also faster, why would anyone go the first one when you can just kite them ( simplyfied, not a real world example, also rhetorical question ) ?
What happened here ? Who made a build with milliseconds of faster draw ? And who were all the people you destructinated in every possible situation, in melee and ranged combat alike ? I dont understand any of this but I think you are missing the point:
Again your skilltree is not the matter here. Ill repeat: "Pure archers are simply useless at melee and are not devastating at range either unless fully loomed and extremly high skilled". Maybe you just didnt read carefully. I am speaking of putting every aviable point into archery related skills to gain the maximum ranged combat effiency to your disposal by skillpoints. This means low PS if any. If you are telling me you can defeat an 45+ armor person with no or low PS and a 0 slot weapon ( granted you want some arrows to shoot and a nice bow ) and 1 wpf you should probably stop talking about singleplayer. And now we are back the beginning -> pure archer = dead meat in melee BUT not devastating at range also due to all the random factor and all the other things you can read in my original post, again giving more advantages to the shotgunner.
Again the pure archer thing. 6 PD is not deadly though unless you can look into the future for headshotting people at longer ranges or you find a lot of fools who like standing motionless or walking in straight lines much.
Strong is relative in this case. A smart person can very much influence whether he loses to an archer or not. Melee combat although lets the person win who is more skilled, given appropriate builds, which pure archers cant achieve. Unless arrows are hitscan with laser accuracy there will always be a little randomness of course. Im not talking about giving archers native-like accuracy, reload times and missile speed but in crpg its way to easy for a person to avoid and hunt down archers once known how its done correctly. I for my part cant remember having problems with other archers shooting me all day.
Sorry if someone recognises himself from this story... I just think HA must have been poorly skilled, having lags or low level because he couldnt hit anything... It was a LUCK SHOT! There you have it... I just had to write this somewhere...
Yes Odin, I know how you feel. Getting shot by an unreachable noskiller from a horseback is a pain obviously and most dishonorable. Not so much for me of course as I can gun down the horse. But the root of all this anger are the continueing archery nerfs.
You complainmed about pure archer's effectiveness and I just replied to it. People are not forced to going pure archers but a lot of them still has the nerve to complain about their melee effectiveness when they do. Hybriding is very much possible and I don't understand why not more people do it.
I've killed a lot of guys with 0 ps alts but it's not recommended to go for it though since one bounce is mostly enough to get one killed.
However, what you're saying about fully loomed archers not being devestating at range and/or in melee is way off. Just look at cupid and bagge for example.
This is a joke, right? 6 PD is by far enough to make a very viable archer. If you got heirlooms too I would see no reason at all to go for more PD since you're gimping accuracy and kiting abilities for a too low gain in damage. I would rather just stack WM for accuracy. bagge with his loomed gear and 18/24 build was a two-shot machine. That's 6 PD for you.
18/21 archer is already immensely op without looms atall, play in teamplay and you will have the real potential of your class revealed to you, lets sayif we had a 10 man squad with 1 to 3 archers with this build, andinfantry protects, archers will shoot all down eazely. ( to eazely also because archers seem to do way more damage then melee 6pd > 6ps) you might find this overexacherating, but i tell you in team ballance archery is O the fuckin P and when i spend my rounds protecting archer nests i hardly ever lose
Lol. Having played both HA and foot archer, HA is a lot more challenging and skillful than foot archer.
Anyway, I have no problems with archery at the moment. Wearing heavy Yawshan it took 4 arrows from a warbow to kill me. Which is more than fair in my opinion.
we also pretend that archery dousnt have the rest of the game on theyr side: slow movement in general , specially on slopes, stun when hit by eny arrow, no diversity in cover or the ability to take cover, the ability to block as effectively as eny melee character, higher body damage then melee with same builds, extremely higher headhit damage. the priveledge to chosse your fighting ground, the potential to have a near constant damage out put, the potential to pick off targets together. the general advantage of being ranged.
we also pretend that archery dousnt have the rest of the game on theyr side:
...slow movement in general , specially on slopes, stun when hit by eny arrow...
...no diversity in cover or the ability to take cover...
...the ability to block as effectively as eny melee character...
...higher body damage then melee with same builds, extremely higher headhit damage.
...the priveledge to chosse your fighting ground...
...the potential to have a near constant damage out put, the potential to pick off targets together.
I see lots of 2h'ers on here :rolleyes:
il just go in this thread and post a comment i think is pretty witty, hihi, but i wont post enything near relevence because i dont want people to realise im not such a witty person afterall.
Achery is fine... :?
Its the fact that they can run an shoot people with no problems that makes the class obnoxious an disgusting :rolleyes:
If they changed it so you cant draw while running or if they changed the weight on bows the problem would be gone.
Its a known fact that most archers dont carry melee weapons because they only need a crappy 0 slot weapon to block if they get caught unaware.. they then block 2 hits an starts running an kill their victim while its trying to catch him :(
Maybe you should get your facts right before posting crap...
Archers take a 0slot weapon cause it is the only thing they can wear if they want to have more than 17 or 20 arrows with a 2slot bow :rolleyes: And those who use a 1slot bow usually have a melee weapon with which they can fight
its looks retarded watching someone kill 5 people by running an turning around an shooting em without them being able to fight back.
i dont have a big prob with the kiting, its that archers do way more damage then melee, and glance way less.
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Agree with most of it but a 13 PS has the drawback of nonexistant movementspeed, you get hit once in a big group and you are pretty much stuck there.
... can't wait to see the next phase of debates.
Interesting then that I only ever saw melees destroying doors and gates on siegemaps. Perhaps we should start positioning walls of archers in front of gates to gun them down in no time.i can do damage to the doors/gates with for example wooden stick(17b). I think arrows just can't do any damage to doors/gates , its not that the amount of the damage is too low but its just coded like that,just think how stupid it would be if small arrows could break doors...
i can do damage to the doors/gates with for example wooden stick. I think arrows just can't do any damage to doors/gates , its not that the amount of the damage is too low but its just coded like that.
i can do damage to the doors/gates with for example wooden stick(17b). I think arrows just can't do any damage to doors/gates , its not that the amount of the damage is too low but its just coded like that,just think how stupid it would be if small arrows could break doors...
ranged = low risk high dmg
cav = low risk high dmg
infantry = high risk high dmg
dont see any problems hEre..
what are you even talking about
Cool. So you need to couch 4-6 times to kill someone? Cavalry is clearly up.
ranged = low risk high dmg
cav = low risk high dmg
Mouhhhahaa, yes 3 arrows to kill someone in armor bigger than 40 and 6+ arrows for 60-70 armor.
Couche = 90% kill
being ranged is not easy - yes it is
1) most melees have shield or throw weapons - lol no
2) bad map rotation(most maps are cav friendly) - cav maps are often archer maps as well
3) very big cav population - lol no
and how some open field can be archer frienly too? ranged maps are some with towers and other stuff, so cav and ranged friendly maps are different stuff
you spend very little time in game, i dont see you at evening on eu1. so i think you dont know about stuff on eu1.
people are not raging half as much if I oneshot them with my GLA as they do when I put 5 arrows into them until the finally die.I don't usually rage if i get oneshotted by melee because i can block swings or run away :mrgreen:, but when archer is shooting me i can't block the arrows and sometimes i can't hide(RAGERAGE)
So after 4 gens of archery I went back to melee, went for the lol str build and instantly got a positive K:D.
For some weird reason, people are not raging half as much if I oneshot them with my GLA as they do when I put 5 arrows into them until the finally die.
Saying ranged is easy is just the usual melee view on it.
I am now half way through level 30 got 421 death and actively remember dying to ranged about 25 times.
Would have said 3 times but I remember some throwing kills and being finished off by a bolt or an arrow or two during melee fights.
Yes, you can say "BUT YOU ARE A STR BUILD" and will I will say "Why are you not?"
Not adjusting to the way the battlefield changes is not exactly a sign of skill.
It's cool if all the elite duelists think they are the better players but sadly being a good player also includes being flexible and not stuck with your high agi low health low armor builds...
If you fail at evading - train it or get more armor.
Crying for other classes to be nerfed so your class can dominate is no sign of skill.
If I don't get an archer armor during the next few days I'll get some medium armor and go for a 18/21 build to check out if it's really that bad...
I just don't see it right now.
Don't run in straight lines, ever.
Will spare you from half the ranged hits :mrgreen:
There's always Native if you want OP archery :*
And OP polearms. And OP throwing. And OP lolstabs. And OP cav. And OP shields...wait...everything in native is massively powerful, and everything has a counter, when used effectively, just as here.
... in native.(throwing useless like in cRPG)
Good archers have an easy time on open plains. Crossbowmen, not so much. Crossbows are great for urban maps with hiding places, towers etc. while archers are great on plains.
Noob, throwing is ridiculously powerful, your post shows that like a large % of crpg players, you have not put much time into native. Throwing in native is NEVER absent from highskilled clan matches, since it is invaluable, and a guy with 2 stacks of throws with shield and sword is an archer rapist. Also destroys any nonshield cav, horse archers, and can reliably hold up the advance of enemy powerhouse classes, like swadian infantry and nord huscarl.
Ok so before i start, I will state a few things :
i don't often come debate if archery is op in this thread, i jsut post sometimes my 2 cents about things that annoy me when i read some shit that goes on in this thread.
-I'll agree that the 2h lobby is the most retarded one we have in crpg
-That archery isnt amssively OP eventhough i have my very own griefs (such as loomed archery gear, epic headshot and some other stuff)
-That everyone should play at least archery one gen or two on main or an alt an to get some positive kd ratio before being all pro on forums about archery
But followind this (i read nearly every post of this forum since 2011 -Yes, I get bored in law classes) thread annoys the fuck out of me. I realise that in the arhcery lobby there are a few specimens that are as retarded as some 2h lobbyist, and yes I'm thinking of you Blindguy
But first I wish to answer to Meow post who posted his opinon and i thank him for that because he is the only member of dev team that does it (except maybe Paul who throws in some stats times to time to watch us fight like starving sharks over a piece of an australian surfer's leg).
Sadly enough you just get your ass licked by some here that take your words as truth just because you are part of the dev team. I beleive you wont take it against me if i'm opposed to your opinion and don't lick your ass ( the only thing we have in common is my mw heavy throwing axe you have in your face that I'm still waiting to retrieve from you!)
First of all trust me, when you one hit people with GLA it does create rage, like i rage when i get one hit by a morning star. rage is issued from anything that is unexpected,irrisistable...and does fuck loads of damage. Like when i throw a jarid at leshma running away that told me i did 75% damage (eventhough my testing on a clanmates alt, a plain 18/21 in medium armor with no looms caused at best 50% damage) and comes on the thread "throwing is broken" jsut to say throwing is perflectly fine and very powerful. Or even when badplayer nearly gets his horse one shot by a thrower
But the fact you can block the axe with a block causes less rage and the player victim knows he can only blame himself (or is fucking stupid team mate for backslashing him when he was about to block.)
I dont want to seem all pro, 133t and other shit like that but I'v witnessed your playstyle very often meow on eu 1 or even pecores server, it consists of a strength build with a gla and rushing enemies lines. By doing that you create an insane clusterfuck around you where you swing your axe madly while the enemies try to gank you. While you dont care who you hit the opposing gankers oftenf ace two situations :
- or they dont give a fuck and swing as madly as you and risk team hitting or worse teamkilling
- or they are consciencious and try not to teamhit and wait for the occasion jsut to get slashed by a friendly or you when you turn around unexpected to them
result is, the damage dealt to you when you die is far inferior to the damage that you'v inflicted or that firendlies have done amongst themselves due to this chaos.
you say you take 5 arrows to kill someone, i say you cant generalise like that, all depends on the enemies build, looms etc. In average it takes me 3 to 5 arrows to kill someone
The very nature of melee gives it the opportunity of getting more kills, going "spamad" (spam-mad) in clustefucks (the number of people who jsut fail a simple block in those clusterfucks is impressive)
archery is a distance game where you dont put yourself in danger from the melee therefore the damage output isnt the same.
now this is the first thing that makes me go : "errrr no" in your post. saying to adapt to the game. I am sorry but no, this is a game, im not going to have the archery dictate what i should play, a strength build or a one hander. Even though i deeply agree that agi build are completly useless for battles and any one that makes one for battle is plain retarded, we are not going to make archery do reasanable damage to strentgh build and, oh, lets fuck the rest cuz who cares? they are cry babies anyways! Strength builds are amde to resist to damage and do good damage but lose versatality and speed (maybe the trade off isnt fair but that's another thread about "STR is imba").
Does it come to your mind that not every person that doesnt go pure strength isnt a 2h duelist my old friend that gets high on his own farts just because he owns on the duel serv?
i have loomed medium armor im not an agi build but more a balanced one and still take some heavy damage from archery.
range is easy, you just point and click take in account some elevation loss and speed travel of the target. but the main thing that makes me say that it's easy mode is you dont have someone in front of you to directlyc ontest your skill.
In melee it's very different, you have to be aware of attacks blocks chambers distance etc and when you fall on Chase the only thing you can do is hope someone is going to save your ass (or hold down block because he's jsut respecced to a piker)
I hope you wont take any of this eprsonnaly meow but somethings jsut annoyed me
And this is not talking about blindguy, you, my good sir, are one of the biggest arrogant prick this forum has, one of those guys that just gets high on your own farts, your the archer version of those 2h duelist that get high on kicking ass on duel server. you say that they are all whiners and elistest morons, but you are exactly at their level.
but your "prickness" doesnt limit itself to this thread (yes, i already said i read nearly every thread on this forum) you can find on another thread that has nothing to do with balancing.
and i see you are all pretending to be all native "connaisseurs" but i would like to recall that any 2h can also wear a shield and be an effective one hander AND shields actually have a forcefields, something you dont get here
AND NOW IM F****** MAD BECAUSE ALL THIS TIME I SPENT MAKING THIS PSOT SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED TO COMPLETE MY THROWING GUIDE!
F*** ME AND F*** YOU ALL
:D
NERF ARCHERY
NERF ARCHERY
Nerf Archery and also Xbow :!:
A fallen member wanting an archery nerf..... UNHEARD OF
Polestagger might get reworked once archer discrimination in this forum stops.
Polestagger might get reworked once archer discrimination in this forum stops.
Polestagger might get reworked once archer discrimination in this forum stops.
Polestagger might get reworked once archer discrimination in this forum stops.
for all the people who just concluded "nerf archery" after my post, that wasnt the goal.
but now im in this thread, this is what i think should be done :
reduce ubr headshot damage and turn loom arrows into extra arrows and not damage then archery would be fine for me and i would still be raging when i get shot 8-)
ps oh yea, and some love for longbow
so what you're saying is... nerf archery?
I can think of 5 from the top of my head *shrugs*
I miss murdering all those fallen archers from horseback now I can only find two or three compared to the time when i could have sworn that half the enemy team was fallen archers :/This... fallen used to be almost all archers.
I don't see anything wrong with bow right now except killing an enemy quickly with on eludes me even when my shots connect with heads i swear ppl are immune to arrows
Polestagger might get reworked once archer discrimination in this forum stops.LOL.... +100 for paul
turn loom arrows into extra arrows and not damage then archery would be fine for me and i would still be raging when i get shot 8-)
This... fallen used to be almost all archers.LOL....
What do you think of this?
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,17322.msg247132.html#msg247132
Note that as the Fallen Archers decreased, my time spent in game decreased and my presence on the forums increased... Food for thought.
NERF ARCHERY
stop lieing paul, you are probably one of the main reasons archery is still op
saying to adapt to the game. I am sorry but no, this is a game, im not going to have the archery dictate what i should play, a strength build or a one hander.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
The part I did not spoiler is a bit weird since by nerfing archers further you are dictating how they have to play.if you read well my post my meow, i never said they were really overpowered, i just believe some tweaks could be in order!
It's just a game let's just keep it as it is and feel free to play what you like but if you fail to adept to the battlefield then you will be a bad player.
I am sorry but no, this is a game, im not going to have the archery dictate what i should play, a strength build or a one hander. Even though i deeply agree that agi build are completly useless for battles and any one that makes one for battle is plain retarded, we are not going to make archery do reasanable damage to strentgh build and, oh, lets fuck the rest cuz who cares? they are cry babies anyways! Strength builds are made to resist to damage and do good damage but lose versatality and speed (maybe the trade off isnt fair but that's another thread about "STR is imba").
I also like how you say everyone who agrees with me is a brown noser, massive fail understanding that your opinion is also just an opinion like mine.
meow for president!
Your speaking to deaf ears, Meow, I have been saying this for months. But players would rather change the game than change their style. Cause, afterall, they are HEROS! pfffffffft
But first I wish to answer to Meow post who posted his opinon and i thank him for that because he...
I would much rather see archers as most of them were historically. Wearing quite a bit of armor and armed with a melee weapon. They fire volleys into the enemy ranks, but if they get catched in the fray, they are able to defend themselves.
Oh god plate archers ---> WPF penalty ---> lower armor ---> omg melee archers! ---> Slot system ---> fleeing archers due to lack of melee capability.
So I am playing the exact class that the community forced upon me.The community is a bunch of retards, don't listen to them.
Running away as an archer should be made less viable. They tend to have quite a bit of agi and barely any armor so they can outrun pretty much all infantry.
I would much rather see archers as most of them were historically. Wearing quite a bit of armor and armed with a melee weapon. They fire volleys into the enemy ranks, but if they get catched in the fray, they are able to defend themselves.
No Lech, also a lot of things ARENT broken, and he doesnt change them, because archery is pathetic, ubernerfed, and UP. Spammy shielders are the most unnerfed at the moment, but you cant seem to accept that.
See, I used to do just that, but then this happened:
Quote from: Meow on Today at 15:15:30
Oh god plate archers ---> WPF penalty ---> lower armor ---> omg melee archers! ---> Slot system ---> fleeing archers due to lack of melee capability.
So I am playing the exact class that the community forced upon me.
fackin cant believe the shit pouring out of this thread[/spoiler]
the circlejerk will continue, in this eternal battle, but i have faith one day the god of ;;nerf op archery;; will awnser our prayrs, and drive out the devil of ';;archery is ok it isnt op its actuall up;;
So you can't use any good melee weapon because of the slot system? I call bullshit on that one. Iberian Mace, Espada, Military Pick/Sickle, Langes Messer are all very good 1-slot weapons that can easily be used next to a bow of some sort.
However, the thing is that if you loom your bow and bodkins all the way your damage with 6 PD is faaaar superior to that of the melee weapon. And the funny thing is, with 6 PD you can easily get enough athletics to always run and gun. Why use the less powerful and more dangerous option which is the melee weapon? Smart archers do run and gun, but it doesn't change the fact that it's silly both silly and overpowered. Wouldn't mind making the two top bows 1 slot and severely increase the weight of all bows
Do any of you think crossbowery is fine? All of you just whine about archery but never crossbow lol.
However, the thing is that if you loom your bow and bodkins all the way your damage with 6 PD is faaaar superior to that of the melee weapon.
Crossbowery in cRPG is ridiculously buffed in comparison with Native.
Do any of you think crossbowery is fine? All of you just whine about archery but never crossbow lol.Xbows are fine
Crossbows are weak compared to native.
Maximum damage output with crossbows in native multiplayer = 65pierce
Maximum damage output with crossbows in cRPG = 100 pierce or literally oneshot.
I can tell you more - you can have same 65pierce with MW Light Crossbow and MW Steel bolts. And Light Crossbow reloads much faster than native Siege crossbow. Also you can use Light Crossbow on horseback.
The armor formula is different in cRPG, so is the damage loss over distance, so is the wpf effect on crosshair size. These are all better in native.
Yes. In Native you can equip Siege crossbow, grab a horse and make point-blanc shots in the enemy face as horsecrossbowman. Indeed.
Also you can have troll char in Native with 65pierce damage xbow and 12 athletics for example.
ur mom
Maximum damage output with crossbows in native multiplayer = 65pierce
Maximum damage output with crossbows in cRPG = 100 pierce or literally oneshot.
I can tell you more - you can have same 65pierce with MW Light Crossbow and MW Steel bolts. And Light Crossbow reloads much faster than native Siege crossbow. Also you can use Light Crossbow on horseback.
So what? Where did you find «weak crossbows» here?
Sorry Gurnisson, but you are degrade to LeshMichael level.
But we all agree that we should buff Swashbucklers... right?
But we all agree that we should buff Swashbucklers... right?I'd love to see a swashbuckler buff. Though; If you want a swashbuckler buff, you should be focusing on other aspects of the game and come with a brilliant idea. "Not using a shield that can protect you from arrows" is not the idea you should be focusing on. Since this is also true for 2hander/pole as well. Simply, this is not the thread you're looking for :lol:
brave
archer
April 2012
[21:41] <Fasader> Bow: 7316 (4.45%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Crossbows: 5400 (3.29%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Thrown: 1978 (1.20%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Headshot: 5206 (3.17%)
When I joined the battle servers lately as melee guy without a shield, the ranged pressure was very low compared to earlier times. It is a joke that people still complain about (foot) archers. If there is a problem with HA or HX then it probably comes from the lack of ranged footmen that keep them in check.
(foot) archery is dangerous if you have backup. Else, you're bound to get lanced failing to hear the horse. Horse archery is just better than foot archery, even if it's a bit more expensive, it's totally worth it. Not to say that you can even do nice melee kills thanks to your horse speed bonus.
HA is the "evolution" of foot archers, so of course, you'll see fewer and fewer of thoses, thus more and more complain about HA and HX.
Unfortunately, this is the truth.
Ranged kills(EU1) in cRPG over the course of time:
June 2011
[21:07] <Fasader> Bow: 9274 (9.62%)
[21:07] <Fasader> Crossbows: 4035 (4.18%)
[21:07] <Fasader> Thrown: 439 (0.46%)
[21:07] <Fasader> Headshot: 4162 (4.32%)
July 2011
[17:43] <Fasader> Bow: 24489 (7.38%)
[17:43] <Fasader> Crossbows: 13357 (4.02%)
[17:43] <Fasader> Thrown: 3612 (1.09%)
[17:43] <Fasader> Headshot: 12158 (3.66%)
September 2011
[18:19] <Fasader> Bow: 3512 (7.91%)
[18:19] <Fasader> Crossbows: 1741 (3.92%)
[18:19] <Fasader> Thrown: 621 (1.40%)
[18:19] <Fasader> Headshot: 1666 (3.75%)
December 2011
[21:17] <Fasader> Bow: 11064 (7.91%)
[21:17] <Fasader> Crossbows: 7808 (5.58%)
[21:17] <Fasader> Thrown: 2399 (1.71%)
[21:17] <Fasader> Headshot: 5212 (3.72%)
April 2012
[21:41] <Fasader> Bow: 7316 (4.45%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Crossbows: 5400 (3.29%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Thrown: 1978 (1.20%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Headshot: 5206 (3.17%)
When I joined the battle servers lately as melee guy without a shield, the ranged pressure was very low compared to earlier times. It is a joke that people still complain about (foot) archers. If there is a problem with HA or HX then it probably comes from the lack of ranged footmen that keep them in check.
The number of times I've seen top players killing 4+ melee enemies alone at round end is huge. The same with 4+ archers ? That never happens.
Also, projectiles kill horses and that isn't tracked.
But what's with January, February, March cause the fact that the amount of bow kills have been reduced in a single moth (wich hasn't finished already) doesn't mean much, statistically speaking
The number of kills don't matter that much.
What matters is that killing the best players of the enemy team is much easier with a ranged weapon than with anything else.
Also you say that there is no "ranged defense" skill... um I'm sorry but that's exactly what dodging is.. oh yeah and those wooden things that you can carry in your left hand.
I do that a lot, if I ever am near the top of the scoreboard it is usually either because of teamplay or because I managed to ninja around the archers and get 4-5 of them, so I disagree strongly with this. Ok, I am a shielder, but still, I disagree strongly with you
The number is not the important bit, but the percentage. wich has reduced significantly (to half in archers, slightly in crossbows, tripled in throwing :O ) since june. I honestly doubt that ranged play more toward the end of the month.
And are you suggesting that all archers decided that April was the month where they ignored peasants and focused only on the best players, accounting for the reduction in kills?
Is that how you are justifying this?
Also you say that there is no "ranged defense" skill... um I'm sorry but that's exactly what dodging is..
oh yeah and those wooden things that you can carry in your left hand.
I support archery buff.
Why?
Because archery is underpowered and only the best players are able to top scoreboard as archers. Same can be said for 1H.
An archer can one shot you with a head shot or 2 shot your body armor around 50 with +3 rusbow and bodkins.
The number is not the important bit, but the percentage. wich has reduced significantly (to half in archers, slightly in crossbows, tripled in throwing :O ) since june. I honestly doubt that ranged play more toward the end of the month.
And are you suggesting that all archers decided that April was the month where they ignored peasants and focused only on the best players, accounting for the reduction in kills?
Is that how you are justifying this?
Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.
Same can be said for pikemen, yet I see them on top more than I see ranged classes.
Same can be said for pikemen, yet I see them on top more than I see ranged classes.
Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.
That's because Pike has comparable with bows range, better speed, more damage, cheaper, team friendly, and you can hit while doing 360° spinstab.
That is exactly what dodging is, and dodging is utterly UP. Compare the effectiveness and reliability of blocking a melee attack and dodging a ranged attack. Blocking is reliable, if you do it right it can't end up bad for you and doesn't lose it's effectivity when you actually want to kill your opponent. Dodging is random and becomes more and more ineffective if you try to come closer to the ranged character.
I have described how UP shields are as a ranged protection in my previous post so maybe you should refer to it and develop specific arguments about them. If you want more material I can add that the protection becomes hardly useful against 2 archers and definetly non-existent against more, which isn't the case when a shielder fights a melee blob.
Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.
Kafein, I remember how some shielder Olwen constantly made 50kills\2death at every map in august-december 2010. When every archer has 300 wpf in archery, and Olwen has only 5 in shield skill and 5 athletics.
So, it's not about shields, it's about ability to play good.
What is your point ? That shields are not less effective than... something else against archers ? Well yes that is completely true, I would prefer a 1h+shield over a polearm or 2h if I had to fight archers, but that is not what we are arguing about.
I disagree, dodging is a fantastic way to avoid most ranged damage. No you can't (and shouldn't) be 100% effective at dodging, but if you end up taking 1 arrow when closing on an archer instead of taking 3 or 4, you just reduced the archer's damage to you by 66-75%. Dodging is like anything else, the more you practice the better you will be at it.
I did read what you wrote about shield, but I reject the argument. If you have your shield centered and facing an archer, they are almost never going to be able to shoot over/under it unless you fuck up. If you see them aiming low, you can also slightly adjust your block lower to cover you feet, vice versa for the head. Discounting shields from being the great ranged protection they are is absurd IMO.
That is exactly what dodging is, and dodging is utterly UP. Compare the effectiveness and reliability of blocking a melee attack and dodging a ranged attack. Blocking is reliable, if you do it right it can't end up bad for you and doesn't lose it's effectivity when you actually want to kill your opponent. Dodging is random and becomes more and more ineffective if you try to come closer to the ranged character.
And this is exactly what Im talkin about for decades. I dont know how many times I posted this but in fact I think every archery rage thread can be reduced to this very point. And I never was sarcastic here.
Dodging is very much like blocking in melee fights. Who does not block/dodge properly gets hit, easy as that. If you know what you are doing it is easy to dodge arrows, but I can honestly tell 95% of all melees Ive shot so far dont have a damn clue what they are doing when they try to dodge arrows. You might not have a 100% chance not to get hit at point blank range, but as your reward for getting into melee range you pretty much get a free kill.
I am not raging here but I dont know how to explain this to players who havent tryed archery for at least 2 gens and probably I cant as you have to experience it yourself. I as an archer myself barely have problems avoiding being shot from 2 standard archers shooting at me simultaniously, at 3 my multi task skills begin to fail though. I have had tons of close quarter archer duels with archers of every kind, even with the famous ones and some lasted until 10 - 15 arrows have been sent off in total, because we both knew how to fool and evade the enemy, even at point blank range.
I trained a few newcomer archers and gave some advise to melees on the duel servers every now and then. 10 minutes of training and some tips regarding dodging can make the life of an archer a lot more difficult. But ( thankfully ? ) people didnt put much effort into concentrating on that so far. People now a days can block like vets but dodge like MnB was released 3 days ago. I was thinking about writing a tutorial/guide about this from time to time but I feared once the weaknesses of archery would have been made public for non ranged players I would just reward people for crying for nerf instead of getting famillier with the game mechanics themselfes ( on the other side nobody would read it anyway ).
Again Im not ranging here, nor being sarcastic. If people show honest interest I am willing to spend a few minutes on the duel servers with them and giving a tip or two. You probably wont believe how many times archers fool around with you, just making you think that they can hit you, when they are bluffing in reality.
The best way of course is to do it yourself. It has been suggested dozents of times. Play a gen or two as an archer yourself. I am at my 7. gen of archery and still learn something new every now an then. It might have been the builds I tryed out in a specific order, but I think you should play at least 4 gens of archery to get a relative precise picture on what it is all about.
And now I probably say this for a 4. time, repeating myself again because I cant stress this enough. We all know we like to get our arch-enemy-class mad. But there is no rage or sarcasm or intentional false testemony involved here.
I find archery pretty balanced except for max out loomed archery equipment. I'm getting sick and tired of losing 75% health to a handshot
(yes it was an arrow, not it wasnt a bolt, no i didnt get shot two rounds at the same time, yes i was 100%, yes i have lordly gearn, no im not an agi spammer)
You only take huge damage if you move forward. That's how ranged damage works, stay still or go backswards and damage will be minimal. Go full speed in a straight line and arrows will hurt like a bitch.
It's not the best idea going fellowing archers without shield.
This is all well and good, but what matters is what happens in the game. I don't know about you, but in the game I play people die of failed dodging all the time, no matter how skilled they are in other aspects of the game. The existence of a great secret about dodging isn't relevant if it has not been revealed. With such logic you could justify a nerf to daggers because theoritically you can learn to chamberblock any attack on purpose. And even if someone actually does that, there's still no reason to include this in balance considerations until it sees widespread use.
I personally experienced it was much easier to dodge projectiles playing an archer or thrower simply because I didn't had to come up close to do damage. Also, at close ranges there's no way someone can react at the moment the shot is fired. The best you can do is guessing that moment or just doing an unpredictable zigzag, it's no mystery melee centric players aren't interested in that "skill". Roulette is more thrilling.
ah shit visibly i forgot one thing : was not following archer or actually moving come to think about it
and even a non loomed archer when i move forwords with an arrow to the chest does at best 50% damage and thats ok for me
but 75% to the hand, plz no
Speed bonus also comes into play with elevation. Shooting from a wall or hill does more damage than on the ground. There is also a random factor in all damage that causes widely varying amounts of damage from a similar swing/shot.
I think with a slight 30% damage nerf, archery will be well balanced.
i jsut believe loomed archery needs a tweak
True it needs a buff, good call man.I agree, archer damage nerf is really needed.
A side note: Shielders who get killed MORE than once by an archer who sidesteps and headshots them at the last second, in a 1v1 scenario, are fucking retarded and deserve what they get. This happend to me 1month after warband was released, when I first installed it. I had played MnB for years and years, but obviously not seen this, cause multi was brand new.
I thought, HEY, thats pretty sneaky, better watch out for that in future. Since then, it has never happend, cause when I make a mistake, I try to learn from it, but that doesnt seem to be the case. Players STILL rage about ranged, even though, I CANNOT stress this enough: GET A SHIELD.
There are some shields that are good for fighting. The big round ones are not the best for this. But with 6 shieldskill, and a round shield, heavy round shield, even with Plain Round Shield, if you get shot its YOUR OWN FUCKING FAULT.
If you are too badass to use a shield to block arrows, its also exceedingly easy to dodge arrows, they are quite slow in crpg, the archers dont have some hitscan sniper rifle, and even BEYOND dodging or blocking arrows: USE YOUR BRAIN--> seldom do we play on random steppe, there is almost ALWAYS a way to play your archer opponent into a position he cannot escape from. But, unfortunatly, if you do not have a shield, you are an archers natural prey.
Scissors does not complain when rock beats it, but in turn rock must not complain that paper is OP. There is a counter for everything, but one character cannot and SHOULD not be able to counter EVERYTHING, or we would all play as that character, and have done with it.
Tell me to get a shield and I will shove one of them up your arse...
I dont want your GLA to hurt me when you swing it, but I dont want to block it, or avoid it, can you just have the damage from it brought down and down and down pls, and make it so when you swing it sometimes it just misses the air infront of you, like swings around your head in a helix upwards, pls.
Good argument mate.
If you move while aiming, your reticule opens so wide that you can't accurately shoot unless infantry is 5 feet away, and they auto-stun you closer than that. Archers can't run away from a horse, and a shielder's magnet keeps most foot/head shots from working. Get a horse or get a shield, or get agility and athletics, or hide behind the buildings and trees that are all over nearly every map, or even (shocking concept), stay with YOUR ranged and protect them from infantry and backstabbing couched cavalry while they focus on ENEMY ranged. Whatever you choose, quit crying in your gruel. :rolleyes:
yes ofc. any criticism of archery is obviously because we all suck so much. got it. brilliant argument.
neeeeext
arrowraped to your GTX every time you connect the server. (Not the case currently... Luckily)i RQ and switch server 200 times a day because of this.
Loomed archery seems balanced enough to me already.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Whiners gonna whine(click to show/hide)
It's strange that everyone agrees archery has to be nerfed, but the devs never do it.
It's strange that everytime everyone agrees archery has to be nerfed, and the devs always do it.fixed
It's strange thateveryonecrymores agreesarchery has to be nerfed,butand the devsneveralways do it.
Xynox, I always read your posts and WOW. You somehow manage to keep your cool in the face of the rampant stupidity you are faced with, and manage to present your arguments in a lucid and erudite way. It amazes me that you still have patience with this community of children waving sticks complaining because rather than change their style they want to change the game.
I think it would be a smart move to change archery mechanics back to native values for a week once QQ-convergences exceed critical levels and then change them back to the initial values. This way the average melee player will flame more of course in the beginning but after the reset we can take advantage of their raised subjective perception. I am aware that this is a treatment relying on the placebo effect and will not likely get rid of the pathogen in the long term but lets face it; there is no adequate cure for this sort of whining syndrom at the moment. Placebos might be the only therapy we have aviable at the moment to make their lives a bit less miserable.
Whiners gonna whineLoomed archery is OP.
Loomed archery is OP.Shut up already, or come up with an argument.
Loomed archery is OP.
and non-loomed is underpoweredvisitors can't see pics , please register or login
We need more archers. Someone has to stop those courageous pikemen who are killing everyone in their path (good in duels, great in groups, epic against cavalry)
Buff bow/arrow stats in general and nerf archer looms. Voila, now even an archer that doesn't have everything loomed can actually kill someone.Shouldn't it?
We need more archers. Someone has to stop those courageous pikemen who are killing everyone in their path (good in duels, great in groups, epic against cavalry)
Come on, devs, we almost have 50 pages of posts supporting archery nerf now, DO SOMETHING!
buff my arbalest please, tnx byeYes buff xbow damage, it's ridiculous how rus/horn bow does more damage than mw xbow with steelbolts.... and bows are even so much faster so it makes it even more ridiculous.
lol'd. Go use 'pike' in duels and I'll laugh at you when you fail every time. Long spear users are also easy to take down, but so many idiots believe that they can spam one even if it's a good player (Warlord, Chase, Crafty etc.) and fail horribly when they get hit while spamming. They only have one attacking direction, so if you block down until you hear the block sound every time, you can't lose (unless you go into kick-range). With the giant thrust-stun on the pike every chamberblock gives a free hit too, so that's a good way to take down a piker.
Also, epic against cav? There's no good cav that ever charge anyone in the protection range of pikes. If people stuck together pikes would fend the enemy cav away from archers/xbowmen/other inf but it's useless because of dumb teammates. I tried to play anti-cav role with pikes, but cav just picks off the ones outside your reach while you can't do shit. Pikes don't counter cav, they fend them off, they're not good in duels against anyone who are decent at the game. However, they're insanely good at supporting and very vulnerable to ranged units like you stated too.
Q_Q
I'll just say this, I fear most pikemen. Especially the likes of you and Chase. Even when we're alone fighting. I also fear you when you're using any other polearm.That is because pikes can be tricky weapons to use, but that works only on the chaos of the battlefield. Once it becomes 1v1 when there are two above average players, there is nothing that pikeman can do. I didn't understand why you are talking of pike either. It is because pikes are good anti-archer weapons do the their enormous range? Well yeah, they can be good anti-cav as well as anti-archer sometimes; but that case is something does not happen very often. I think we should be focusing on archery in this thread.
I have no fear when I encounter one or more players using two handed swords, no matter how good they are.
You might kill a lot of people using 2H but that doesn't mean I'll go down easily.
What I see is you guys act like bows should not kill anyone on the battlefield. Perhaps they should not do damage at all. Perhaps archery should not even exist? Well there are melee servers to keep you whiners happy. Go and play there as you want.
I have no fear when I encounter one or more players using two handed swords, no matter how good they are.:?
I'll just say this, I fear most pikemen. Especially the likes of you and Chase. Even when we're alone fighting. I also fear you when you're using any other polearm.
I have no fear when I encounter one or more players using two handed swords, no matter how good they are.
You might kill a lot of people using 2H but that doesn't mean I'll go down easily.
Yes buff xbow damage, it's ridiculous how rus/horn bow does more damage than mw xbow with steelbolts.... and bows are even so much faster so it makes it even more ridiculous.
spend 3 min chasing an archer in eu1 yesterday, he kited me broke my shield, and killed me in 3/4 shots, fu op shit nerf!I made a thrower for situations like these. If I feel I can't play cav or normal footman, I take my thrower alt. Yeah yeah the archers and probably everyone else laughs at me for saying this, but in many maps it's highly effective counter against archers. They have light armor, I have high cut damage throwing axes... IT WAS MEANT TO BE! :O(click to show/hide)
nerf throwing!U MAD BRO!?visitors can't see pics , please register or login
you do know cover is a joke in this game, like really a big ass joke
spend 3 min chasing an archer in eu1 yesterday, he kited me broke my shield, and killed me in 3/4 shots, fu op shit nerf!(click to show/hide)
lol way to know how to play your role.
slow, inaccurate shootingWTF?!?!!?
Yes, no person with a shield should be able to kill an archer! Oh wait..
lol are you serious? He's using a cardboard box as a shield obviously.
& since when did SHIELDS counter RUNNING ARCHERS lol all I see is a stalemate.
What kills archers guys? WHAT KILLS THOSE RUNNING BASTARDS.
Plz add INT attribute so we can close this thread down finally.
WTF?!?!!?Go to native
lol are you serious? He's using a cardboard box as a shield obviously.
& since when did SHIELDS counter RUNNING ARCHERS lol all I see is a stalemate.
What kills archers guys? WHAT KILLS THOSE RUNNING BASTARDS.
Plz add INT attribute so we can close this thread down finally.
Yes, no person with a shield should be able to kill an archer! Oh wait..
Throwing and xbows which are both very weak compared to archers. Buff throwing, buff xbows, nerf archers. 8-)
As a shielder I disagree, as an archer alt, I disagree even more.
If I am the last one in my team on my archer alt and there are 2-3 2h/pole guys, ill run and shoot them, but if theres a shielder, I might be able to kill the non-shielded, but ill probably lose overall, so i just engage and die.
Well see this part confuses me.
Rufio wears no heavy armour and is even on the bit side of light for a front-line melee (previously stated that his total body armour was 40), and he even has lower HP then normal (not even 60) for a front-line infantry.
Our Fallen_Smiling_Daemon managed to make a shielder that had low HP (50), wore decent armour (totaled around 50, very respectable), and still managed to be able to catch and consistently kill archers (or at the very least be fast enough that they could never turn around and shoot with any effectiveness). Smiling proved that a shielder could be able to kill archers and still be deadly against normal infantry, just as Matey did when he was still that irritating Huscarl speed build from hell.
So the question is, if Rufio has low HP and low Armour, then how does he also have low enough athletics to not ward off archers and/or low enough shield skill that his shield breaks against a simple bowman?
Well see this part confuses me.
So the question is, if Rufio has low HP and low Armour, then how does he also have low enough athletics to not ward off archers and/or low enough shield skill that his shield breaks against a simple bowman?
7 athletics and not being able to catch an archer, while being riddled with shield breaking arrows?
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Archery is fine stop crying like little girls :!:
1. learn to live with Archery is counter for cav 2h/pole/1h/xbow/Thrower
2. Its your own fault for not goin archer to counter other archers
3. Get a shield noob!!!
I am sure he was much more heavily armoured than the archer was, and I am sure the weight of the shield didnt help either
The problem with that idea is that archers don't shoot arrows out of their arse, and so had to turn around several times. So I guess they started chasing across an open field 200 yards away? For 3 minutes? Reminds me of that ball of 10 melee chasing a HX around for 4-5 minutes while their own team's ranged was slaughtered by the enemy melee that wasn't quite as.......<fill in the appropriate term>
wow Tzar , never expeted this post from you.
The problem with that idea is that archers don't shoot arrows out of their arse, and so had to turn around several times. So I guess they started chasing across an open field 200 yards away? For 3 minutes? Reminds me of that ball of 10 melee chasing a HX around for 4-5 minutes while their own team's ranged was slaughtered by the enemy melee that wasn't quite as.......<fill in the appropriate term>
Archery is fine stop crying like little girls :!:
1. learn to live with Archery is counter for cav 2h/pole/1h/xbow/Thrower
2. Its your own fault for not goin archer to counter other archers
3. Get a shield noob!!!
Shielders need a significant buff to their ability to kill archers, and to survive while approaching 2 or more of them. This whole "there are two of us we kite in different directions while shooting, you die !" mechanic is absurd.
Shielders need a significant buff to their ability to kill archers, and to survive while approaching 2 or more of them. This whole "there are two of us we kite in different directions while shooting, you die !" mechanic is absurd.
just have archers auto-die on spawn?
+1
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I wanna make post filled with pictures like news deadlines with Tzar and Rufio saying QQ Archery OP!!, Nerf friendly archery!, I had 8 kd then archer ruined it, nURF! and stuff like that. But I'm too lazy.
and can survive like 5-10 arrows.
"Mechanic"? You mean, teamplay and being outnumbered? A skilled player going up against two other skilled players is almost always going to lose unless the team of two make a mistake.
Now it isn't good enough for you if you can run down and auto-kill a single archer, oh no.
You want to be able to auto-kill however many archers might be shooting at you without being touched.
I don't care what anyone else says, that was an epic post.
I don't care what anyone else says, that was an epic post.
And before you try to divert the debate towards irrelevant subjects, this is my experience as a 15/21 shielder/lance cav,
stay out of here na scum, you are below us!
Except that he/she isn't a shielder. I have zero sympathy for dehorsed cavalry. QQ elsewhere.
The fact that you are cavalry is all the argument needed.
/win
As a shielder, when I fight two skilled melee I still have a very far from ridiculous chance of winning. As a shielder, my chances of winning against two skilled archers are less than 0.5%
Now if you don't see the problem here, I don't think we can progress in this discussion.
Kafein, stop whineing. I just did gen as 2hander, NO problem dodging, NO problem catching most archers, some I couldnt catch but they couldnt escape far enough to pull back either, I just press w+t and wait till the kid gets bored.
Sure, sometimes your not paying attention, you get shot. Before that I was shielder, with round shield. Was shot....once? Two times maybe, caught all archers, killed all archers.
Now, in a 2v1 situation, if your enemy IS NOT a noob, your dead. You say you have a better chance vs 2 melee than 2 ranged. YOU DONT. You have EQUAL chance against 2 noobs, but you fight 2 decent players, YOUR DEAD. Your not especially good, you dont think much when you play, infact....your pure pecores. Im done here, this thread is pure farce.
The wall of text was funny, but DAMN are you a big whiner.
Steps to deal with 2 archers:
-Chase the archer who seems to be slower/has the bigger bow.
-Use '~' and only raise your shield when one of them has the bow drawn. Be ready to do a 180 turn to catch arrows in your back.
If your shield is in good condition it's going to take a lot of time for their arrows to break it. If it's towards the end of the round one/both will likely be out before your shield breaks. In either case there is going to be plenty of time for one of them to make a mistake, or perhaps you might even catch the one behind you with their pants down if you quickly change targets if he gets too close.
I've had plenty of success in the past in 2v1 situations like this. Of course the odds are stacked against me and if there are more than 2 left or my shield breaks I'm usually screwed, but boo hoo.
In conclusion: Sack up and stop whining.
And what if the archers are non-retarded ones and actually time their shots?Then you will die just as easily as if you are fighting two melee who are timing their strikes so you literally don't have any time to counter attack.
The wall of text was funny, but DAMN are you a big whiner.
Steps to deal with 2 archers:
-Chase the archer who seems to be slower/has the bigger bow.
-Use '~' and only raise your shield when one of them has the bow drawn. Be ready to do a 180 turn to catch arrows in your back.
If your shield is in good condition it's going to take a lot of time for their arrows to break it. If it's towards the end of the round one/both will likely be out before your shield breaks. In either case there is going to be plenty of time for one of them to make a mistake, or perhaps you might even catch the one behind you with their pants down if you quickly change targets if he gets too close.
I've had plenty of success in the past in 2v1 situations like this. Of course the odds are stacked against me and if there are more than 2 left or my shield breaks I'm usually screwed, but boo hoo.
In conclusion: Sack up and stop whining.
Then you will die just as easily as if you are fighting two melee who are timing their strikes so you literally don't have any time to counter attack.
Another 10 pages of supporters for archery nerf and devs sit by idly.I am too lazy to read. Oh look! There has been 10 more pages=Archery is OP.
Archery is weak, very weak. Dedicated archer hunter speaking here. I've probably killed more archers than all of you who posted in this thread.
Cool story you should write a book about your adventures im sure we would all read it...
Okay I think I need that image again.The other party being unable to answer any of the points being made, I think I won. Thank you for your participation.(click to show/hide)
The other party being unable to answer any of the points being made, I think I won. Thank you for your participation.
Cool story you should write a book about your adventures im sure we would all read it...
you might learn a thing or three from Leshma
Archery is weak, very weak. Dedicated archer hunter speaking here. I've probably killed more archers than all of you who posted in this thread.Compared to what it was like before? yes.
Another 10 pages of supporters for archery nerf and devs sit by idly.
I am more for an archery buff if those "supporters" keep it up with the their current quality of argumentation.
Yes, unable to answer to it as long as you ignore the 55 pages telling you where you are wrong.
:rolleyes: :shock: :rolleyes: :lol:
I am more for an archery buff if those "supporters" keep it up with the their current quality of argumentation.
Not using gifs for example.
What was this thread about? Got lost in the flame war and e-peen competitions.
It is about people saying that they should not adapt to fight a certain playstyle, so they want the other playstyle nerfed out of existence instead.
Archers can't use any armor with higher rating than 20 if they want their whole wpp to be active, can't wear better gloves, can't wear head armor, limited boot choice...
On top of that they can't use many weapons because of slot system. Actually they can but in that case they don't have much arrows to shoot. Therefore most use crappy 0 slot weapons with little or no PS due to a fact that archery unlike xbows has special skill where you need to put points.
Damage they deal is good only if they have everything loomed and "victim" is moving towards them. It's not archery that deals such huge damage in some cases, it's speed bonus. Same goes for xbows, cav, throwing and melee. They all profit from speed bonus.
Now tell me that archery isn't gimped atm, will all these facts I've written here.
I am more for an archery buff if those "supporters" keep it up with the their current quality of argumentation.
I can shoot okay-ish in black armor and co on my archer, use a hornbow + 2 stacks of arrow and a top tier 1 hander.
Well who should adapt to who?
They are gimped in some specific way that makes fighting archers an unnecessary annoyance. It could be much more fun if archers weren't forced to be peasants totally dedicated to their bow and nothing else like some kind of asian kid that trained during 8 years to play harmonica with his feet. Why isn't archery wpf like melee wpf ? That is, with extremely diminishing returns from stacking it. Why are archers forced to wear peasant clothes ? Why is PD considered useless above 6, 5 or even 4 for most people ? All in all, the central problem is that archery depends too much on wpf. If the wpf curve was sharpened in a way that gives the advantage to hybrid and medium-armored archers (what they should all be in the first place), then you'd see a lot less complaints from people that are sick of chasing flies with bazookas.
I wouldn't be surprised. You have already proven that you are a great mod balancer, so this archery buff would perfectly fit your current track record. Maybe also buff cav while you're at it?
So now you want to buff archers?I think the problem here is, archers have crappy melee. But they can run fast. Because they can run fast, they make their distance and continue to shoot. When the enemy comes near, they go run away and repeat the same. That's what drives people mad. My suggestion would be:
You can't have it both ways - archers are at the point they are because they've been nerfed to where they have to sacrifice a ton in order to be viable. If you make them easier to hybrid people will continue to go full archer (and be stronger), there will just be more part-time archers.
Really what it sounds like to me is you want archers who don't play like archers...I think you may be playing the wrong game.
Make all bows 1slot. Double quantity of arrows in quiver, double weight of quiver and make all quivers 2slot. This way you can limit overall quantity of arrows for pure runnin archers\ha (bow and arrows only) and leave place for decent backup weapon. So archer will have chance to participate in melee too.It's more because of 0 ps and 1 wpf in melee I think and the possibility of running away. But yes that has an effect too.
Anyway, the root of «runchers» problem is slot system, and all this «running» was predicted weeks before slot system was implemented.
It's more because of 0 ps and 1 wpf in melee I think and the possibility of running away. But yes that has an effect too.
ive decided to make my alt an archer ''again'' after this gen, and then buy fraps, and proceed with that movie i was boasting to make early in this thread. then you will c me rufio on my archer alt trolling crpg eazymod (0 archerlooms)
So now you want to buff archers?
You can't have it both ways - archers are at the point they are because they've been nerfed to where they have to sacrifice a ton in order to be viable. If you make them easier to hybrid people will continue to go full archer (and be stronger), there will just be more part-time archers.
Really what it sounds like to me is you want archers who don't play like archers...I think you may be playing the wrong game.
You know,I gave a +1 to some of your earlier posts because I thought they were so clearly exaggerated and absurd you had to be trolling. Now I'm not so sure.
If what I wanted was implemented, full archers would be weaker than now and hybrid archers would be a lot stronger than now.Exactly, you don't want archers to be strong as archers, you want them to be a melee oriented class that can shoot (we already have that -> crossbowmen & thrower hybrids). As was mentioned before in this abortion of a thread the slot system was implemented so archers couldn't be as good in melee. Go figure, people were butthurt about archers who could perform in melee.
In pretty much any multiplayer game ever that I can recall of the top of my head ranged class types tend to try to stay at range.. kiting isn't new and certainly isn't unique to cRPG.
I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.
Let me translate...
This aint fuckin battlefield 3 or Counter strike
Yep, but this isn't life; this is a game and games are just meant to be fun right?
They may sure have fun, I just don't understand how.Ill try to explain:
Buff swashbuckler !
Exactly, you don't want archers to be strong as archers, you want them to be a melee oriented class that can shoot (we already have that -> crossbowmen & thrower hybrids). As was mentioned before in this abortion of a thread the slot system was implemented so archers couldn't be as good in melee. Go figure, people were butthurt about archers who could perform in melee.
In pretty much any multiplayer game ever that I can recall of the top of my head ranged class types tend to try to stay at range.. kiting isn't new and certainly isn't unique to cRPG.
Well, to state the obvious, what is fun to you might not be fun to someone else.
I can't help thinking about something called irony. You can't get a full review of the issue without taking how asymmetrically lame kiting is for one of the players into account.
And yet we don't see 1hand shielders making a 58 page post on lancer cavalry that they can never catch and that have an insurmountable weapon length advantage. Perhaps you feel that war is already lost, and 15 archery nerfs could easily lead to 16-20?
I'm sleepy. I wonder if archery would be easier if I drank more coffee. We should discuss archery tips in this thread, it might liven things up so we stop repeating what has already been said.
I like to shoot people. Shooting people is fun. I like it when the enemy falls to the floor dead, that makes me happy.
I like arrows.
I also like shooting at cav. Trying to shoot a horse that is coming straight at you is fun too.
Well, the game can't be perfect. If u want archers to stop kiting you'd have to take out the slot system or increase bow and arrow weight. If the latter happens then youd basically have to take out archery altogether because archer would simply be nerfed into submission and not be a viable class.
Yes but it is still lame for the melee player. Melee vs melee combat is not constantly awesome, but it can't get as lame as melee vs kiting. That's why when I see this :
I can't help thinking about something called irony. You can't get a full review of the issue without taking how asymmetrically lame kiting is for one of the players into account.
If u want archers to stop kiting you'd have to take out the slot systemElaborate
or increase bow and arrow weight. If the latter happens then youd basically have to take out archery altogether because archer would simply be nerfed into submission and not be a viable class.How so?
Elaborate
How so?
Well, before the slot system was introduced I used a rus bow, 2 bodkin quivers, and an elegant poleaxe. I loved this build but I wasn't able to use it after the slot system. Now I know there are people that will still go pure archer if slot system was taken out, but with the freedom of being able to have a 2 slot bow and a weapon that isnt a garbage 0 slot weapon may give archers the tendency to engage in melee.
Btw I doubt you'd find any archer using just one quiver in this game b/c the number of arrows per quiver isn't large enough to comepensate for having to take 1-2 slots just for the bow.
How many kills would the archer get in this time?
Not many. Not even the best archer is accurate 100 percent of the time. And with the current reload speed and missile speed, archers would get maybe 6-8 arrows off from max effective range to melee range( assuming the enemy was charging straight at them.)
But what gets me is that any good melee player knows how to evade arrows. It isn't hard in a 1v1 situation. Even in a 2v1 situation. Granted archers may still hit u, but its a lot harder for them to hit u if u evade.
I'm sleepy. I wonder if archery would be easier if I drank more coffee.
Well with the factors currently for archers in crpg, of u take out their running speed through increased weight the only real chance the archer would have is to shoot from a hill at targets until the enemy infantry gets close to them. At that point There isn't any other thing to do for the archer other than to fight in melee (unless the archer has really high ath and/or the pursuer has low ath and high weight.)Well, arrows would need a speed increase to make insane random turning not that insanely effective I guess, but only if devs could change the arrow arch to still be the same.
How many kills would the archer get in this time?
Not many. Not even the best archer is accurate 100 percent of the time. And with the current reload speed and missile speed, archers would get maybe 6-8 arrows off from max effective range to melee range( assuming the enemy was charging straight at them.)
But what gets me is that any good melee player knows how to evade arrows. It isn't hard in a 1v1 situation. Even in a 2v1 situation. Granted archers may still hit u, but its a lot harder for them to hit u if u evade.
And yet we don't see 1hand shielders making a 58 page post on lancer cavalry that they can never catch and that have an insurmountable weapon length advantage. Perhaps you feel that war is already lost, and 15 archery nerfs could easily lead to 16-20?
Anyone can get 30+ kills if they're on a server long enough so that's not exactly a measure of anything. Compared to two-handers the archers will still be way down in the leaderboards though. As for 'hybridshit', I never even hinted that was the case, I've gone pure longbowman with 6 Power Draw and everything else into Weapon Master and archery. Even with no points in melee it's easier for me to just pick up an axe off the floor and go kill people than it is to try and shoot them.sorry but you are just bad then :D
On the other hand, if you reckon it's just a matter of throwing more points into archery then OK, I'll reserve judgement until I'm level 30 then, though I don't suspect anything will change. No offense, but your avatar has a trollface on it. Not sure how I should take that. :D
sorry but you are just bad then :DNo. This only proves that he is good in melee. Can't talk about his ranged abilities, as this post does not contain much clues about his ranged skills.
so now we see, archery is for people with skill :DAgain, there has no clue about his ranged skills dear trollface.
No. This only proves that he is good in melee. Can't talk about his ranged abilities, as this post does not contain much clues about his ranged skills.
I feel the same way. It is just easier to kill dozens of weak players with a sword, rather than trying to aim for them with a bow.
so now we see, archery is for people with skill :D
No, you're wrong. If he has 0 PS and 1 wpf in melee weapons and yet he finds it easier to kill people in melee than with 6 PD and 160 wpf in ranged, then it clearly proves he's an awful archer.Na :D
Skill ? pfft you dont know what your talking about .. ne ne ne neeee :wink:yes for rusbow and 170+ wpf and shittons of agi of course not.
1.5 years ago when archery was fine
Herpderp
Ooh mad cuz bad, mad cuz bad lol :wink:visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Snip
I have carefully read all the posts in this thread again and deduced that archery needs a nerf.
Considering that you think archery was fine for you when it was grossly overpowered and that you average 1 kill per map now that it's more balanced, you've not realized yet that you're a terrible archer? You were able to get a lot of kills because of the easiness of the class back in the day but now that it requires an ounce of skill you're doing horrible. Do the math. :)
Did missile speed get nerfed the last weeks ? I was taking a break and now my Longbow feels like a slow hornbow ... Also hitboxes and ghost arrows are now fucked up as never before.You were just headshotting everyone on the rageball server 1-2 hour ago, so shut up :P
Yea I'm a terrible archer because someone can take 5 arrows to the chest and sometimes the arrows even glance with 6pd as a dedicated hornbow archer, but I can hit him over the head 3 times with my mace and it kills someone wearing heavy armour? You can't say "well just headshot lol" because of how inaccurate you are even with 7 wm. If I wanted to just close range shoot I'd go crossbow, which requires no wpf and does a ton of damage per shot, someone spec'd in xbow can reload faster then a longbow with a light xbow and do twice as much damage.... in piercing. Even throwing is a better option. That brings it to what someone said earlier how the bow sucks too much to have as a primary weapon, which is what it should be. Not only because that's how bows are supposed to work but that you can't even go hybrid with a bow because of how much worse off you are unless you go dedicated archer.Exactly my thoughts. Can't agree more.
The only people who saw bows as overpowered were the same people who agreed with all the other patches. "Lets make agi builds not viable since bows suck now anyway, now we can crutch on STR builds with reduced armour prices while archers need to spend their entire upkeep on a bow and bodkins that do barely any damage and are inaccurate." Congrats your QQing has removed all skilled archers from the game now you can complain about something else that effects STR builds more like cav or throwers. I'm not going to tell you my in game name either, but a long time ago I was definitely one of the better if not the best archers. One with actual gamesense, aim, and who knew how to pick targets. Too bad all of that now is pointless, because people would prefer to have archer being a spam class with the only skill being in how well you can run away from a fight.
Yea I'm a terrible archer because someone can take 5 arrows to the chest and sometimes the arrows even glance with 6pd as a dedicated hornbow archer, but I can hit him over the head 3 times with my mace and it kills someone wearing heavy armour? You can't say "well just headshot lol" because of how inaccurate you are even with 7 wm. If I wanted to just close range shoot I'd go crossbow, which requires no wpf and does a ton of damage per shot, someone spec'd in xbow can reload faster then a longbow with a light xbow and do twice as much damage.... in piercing. Even throwing is a better option. That brings it to what someone said earlier how the bow sucks too much to have as a primary weapon, which is what it should be. Not only because that's how bows are supposed to work but that you can't even go hybrid with a bow because of how much worse off you are unless you go dedicated archer.
The only people who saw bows as overpowered were the same people who agreed with all the other patches. "Lets make agi builds not viable since bows suck now anyway, now we can crutch on STR builds with reduced armour prices while archers need to spend their entire upkeep on a bow and bodkins that do barely any damage and are inaccurate." Congrats your QQing has removed all skilled archers from the game now you can complain about something else that effects STR builds more like cav or throwers. I'm not going to tell you my in game name either, but a long time ago I was definitely one of the better if not the best archers. One with actual gamesense, aim, and who knew how to pick targets. Too bad all of that now is pointless, because people would prefer to have archer being a spam class with the only skill being in how well you can run away from a fight.
^thisYou don't need to say that, your avatar explains it all.
My main was originally an archer, I have an archer character that I've gotten to level 29 twice and respecc'd twice and is currently 24 and a HA. Archery as it is is functional, but it's not balanced to get as many kills as other classes. It's pretty much a support class to the infantry.
:rolleyes:This is why archery will not be nerfed.
This is why archery will not be nerfed.
Pro nerf arguement: :rolleyes:
While I, who is for Archery staying the same, Acually put an arguement.
Bobthehero is pro melee.
PS: I dont want an Archery buff. I just want them to not be nerfed.
I think he posted that smiley because everything you wrote are well known facts, which actually do not need to be written down ever again because everyone already knows it. Its like writing that you can block with rmb. But you did a nice job on summarizing again none the less.
I think he posted that smiley because everything you wrote are well known facts, which actually do not need to be written down ever again because everyone already knows it. Its like writing that you can block with rmb. But you did a nice job on summarizing again none the less.
Good players are good at everything. Chase is great archer, probably way better than you, for example.
So no, archery doesn't take more skill than melee. It's just that some archers are terrible at melee so they think that. Bagge for example is good at everything.
Same old skill discussion eh? It's not so much about skill as it is about build, you people should know by now(but genneraly dont care) that archers are inherently bad in melee. A guy has to be 2 or 3 times a better fighter to kill an average meleer, thats why we often end updieing like retards.running and gunning, leaving no chance to the melee player most of the time.
Same old skill discussion eh? It's not so much about skill as it is about build, you people should know by now(but genneraly dont care) that archers are inherently bad in melee. A guy has to be 2 or 3 times a better fighter to kill an average meleer, thats why we often end up dieing like retards.
I have two options in mind to rebalance archers:Why don't we just remove every item from the game but only leave twohanded greatswords and light/heavy kuyak?
1)
Reduce the movement speed of archers by 50%.
The reasoning is to put an stop to prolonged, turn around, shoot, run, shoot. Or swiftly dodging cavalry couches. By allowing them that kind of movement speed you leave them without a counter.
A shielder is not a counter, because due to the shield he is likely to not catch up for a very long time. Hell I even have problems catching up with medium armor, no shield and 8 athletics.
2)
Decrease their dmg below a certain amount of meters by huge degree. At least 80%. I prefer this method, because it actually increase the usefulness of cavalry. It is simply idiotic to charge on the back of an archer just for him to realize it like 5m away turn around headshot your horse and demount you in a single blow, which is true for coursers and rounces and if he can aim for the legs a couple of the warhorses will be in severe danger aswell. I realize people hate the idea of buffing cavalry, but they actually dont have a role other then striking unaware people, bumping into dueling ones or attacking other lancers/1h cav - certainly not HA's. This is why I like idea 2 more, because it also stops an end to HA nonsense e.g. bumping a shielder and then shoot or running away from other cav for as long as it takes to get two shots out to drop the enemy horse.
However it also helps 2h guys to get the kill done, archers can still run and run and run, but at least they have to get to the threshold to do any reasonable amount of dmg.
It is not retarded. The archer mechanics are inherently flawed by design and there is a reason why in hundreds of games archers are prone to be weak against melee classes or cavalry among all genres.
You can even go into MOBA games and find those fundamental balancing measurements.
You are also paying a price for your close quarter shotguns on your true ranged ability. How can you justify reasonable long range damage, when you deal then even greater damage when someone manages to gap the distance?
I would like to see their true range damage increase if counters are availible, but in their current state they are annoying as hell and frustrating.
You can go through all 'classes' and find a real counter to them.
Shielder -> Axe
2h-> range/shielder(this includes throwers somewhat)
cav-> Archer,spears
Archers-> ???
The fast ninja, that will need half the round to chase you down?
The warhorse, which you can dodge reasonably due to his low speed?
The 2h guy, that you will simply kite?
The shielder, that you will most likely outrun other then builds like Leokings, who leaves his feet unprotected?
The lightcav that you can dishorse with one well placed arrow or two even if he goes sideways?
The funny stuff is, that those that can catch you on foot have likely less HP then you do.
Tell me what really beats you, if you are so weak.
There is no justifying logic to give you more dmg on easier shots due to lower range.
We aren't talking about stuff like getting on a mountain even fueling those advantages. They are all true on plain terrain.
Archers->???Shield + throwing hybrid
FTFY
ok. Please name me this «Class»
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 18
Hit points: 52
Attributes to skills: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 100
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 105
ok. Please name me this «Class»
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 18
Hit points: 52
Attributes to skills: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 100
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 105
If you want it to be more precise: Hoplomachus or Eques is the specific.Wow, great description you've got there. You just called it a horseman, you really needed Latin for that to sound intelligent.
Now that I have proven my point, lets get on and think about rebalancing archery.
Wow, great description you've got there. You just called it a horseman, you really needed Latin for that to sound intelligent.
A Hoplomachus (pl. hoplomachi) (Greek: ὁπλομάχος) (hoplon meaning "shield" in Greek) was a type of gladiator in ancient Rome, armed to resemble a Greek hoplite (soldier with heavy armor and helmet, a round shield, a spear and a sword). The hoplomachus would wear a bronze helmet, a manica on his right arm, loincloth (subligaculum), heavy padding on his legs, and a pair of high greaves reaching to mid-thigh. His weapons were the spear and a short sword.
The equites opened its struggle with the gladiatorial games. They were with a brimmed helmet with visor, a flat round shield, a lance and a short sword gladius armed. Were in contrast to all other categories of gladiators, who dressed only in a loincloth subligaculum, they wore tunics. They began to fight on horseback, dismounted and then put him away with their swords. In pictorial representations, they are mostly represented in the final phase of the struggle, that is descended from a horse and on foot with swords fighting.
I'm talking about the Eques part. You described the build as either Hoplomachus or Eques, now I have no idea what a Hoplomachus is, werent that you just described it, but Eques just means horseman. Which is a shitty description and the fact that you say it in Latin doesn't make it any smarter. Horse is Equus.(click to show/hide)
I'm talking about the Eques part. You described the build as either Hoplomachus or Eques, now I have no idea what a Hoplomachus is, werent that you just described it, but Eques just means horseman. Which is a shitty description and the fact that you say it in Latin doesn't make it any smarter. Horse is Equus.
This whole thread is just pointless anyways.
You always have people yelling to nerf archery, it always gets nerfed in major patches (besides the headshot buff, which was entirely not needed and rarely noticeable by the majority of players anyways only the armoured HP stackers), people yell that it was not enough, and the cycle continues... Regardless of anyone's opinions.
Also I am suspecting that the majority of the people here never played any archery in recent times. It is frustrating as all hell.
Archers rarely dominate scoreboards.
They don't need nerfs, they don't need buffs, they just need to be left alone ffs (imo) before someone (like cmp) fucks everything up again.
But yes, do go on discussing this bloated topic and thread like anyone who can change things actually gives a damn, wait patiently, and await another small tweak to archery/nerf while blithering on about a class you have never played.
Archers rarely dominate scoreboards.
Kills are not representative for skill with archery. Because your target is not within an arm length of you as it is when you're melee, they can get out of your way much more easily. Still you deal a lot of damage across the entire team, not only against a handful of targets like melee.
They don't need nerfs, they don't need buffs, they just need to be left alone ffs (imo) before someone (like cmp) fucks everything up again.They need a fundamental change in their mechanics. Allow me to repeat myself.
Probably said this in here already, but I'll repeat myself. Changes that have been made to archery made the archer with melee capabilities almost extinct. Furthermore, if you would for example give archers a less steep wpf curve, no one would put the extra wpf into melee, they'd rather put some more into archery. Why is that? Because they can run away. An archer with melee capabilities is completely possible and viable, but they all want that 2 slot bow, those 2 stacks of arrows and as much accuracy as they can get.
I would much rather see archers as most of them were historically. Wearing quite a bit of armor and armed with a melee weapon. They fire volleys into the enemy ranks, but if they get catched in the fray, they are able to defend themselves.
Running away as an archer should be made less viable. They tend to have quite a bit of agi and barely any armor so they can outrun pretty much all infantry.
A good start to fix this would be to disable archers with their bows in hand to reach sprint speed. After 2-3 seconds of running your character suddenly speeds up to his maximum speed. If archers can't do that anymore, running away while being chased is not an option, while still being able to sidestep after every shot. They can switch weapon and sprint, but no more run/turn/shoot shenanigans.
Also prevent archers from taking 2 stacks of arrows, so they always have room for a proper melee weapon.
To compensate for the loss of mobility, the wpf decrease for wearing armor should be reduced a lot. Armor just does not decrease archery capabilities much. Arrow stack size should be increased and break chance should be reduced. Splitting proficencies for archers should be encouraged and be made more viable. Give them considerably more melee capabilities, without nerfing their current range capabilities much. Enable battle archers, no actually, force archers to be battle archers. As long as the possibility is there to get more accuracy and damage by being a wpf whoring cowardly archer, most will do it.
The archer in peasant garbs, that runs away when anyone comes close, should be changed into an uneffective gimmick build, that trembles in fear of his mighty armored and brave battle archer brethren.
These are proper archers(click to show/hide)
Oh, implement deployable stakes, doesn't matter if they don't damage horses if they run into them, stopping them is good enough.
tl;dr version:
Nerf running away capabilities to the ground, force melee capabilities on archers while leaving their ranged capabilities mostly untouched.
They need a fundamental change in their mechanics. Allow me to repeat myself.
Pappus if you're trying to troll you're doing it wrong, with those humongous walls of text/effort.
If you aren't trolling, might I suggest you give the game more than a week before thinking you know what you're talking about.
wouldn't archers constantly clutch the end of rounds and dominate the scoreboard?They do clutch the end of the rounds constantly and
Kills are not representative for skill with archery. Because your target is not within an arm length of you as it is when you're melee, they can get out of your way much more easily. Still you deal a lot of damage across the entire team, not only against a handful of targets like melee.
They do clutch the end of the rounds constantly andPics or it never happened. They do sometimes of course, but nowhere near the amount of times the hero ends up being a melee player.
You ask me to work on my reading abilities when this thread has rehashed your idea probably 10 times?
And your argument most certainly is invalidated if you don't know how the mechanics of the game work. If I log in as a peasant and get bump killed by a horse in 2 hits, then come crying on the forums about how OP horses are, that's a pretty poor argument to make, isn't it?
Forgive me for assuming you've played for only a week, but a suggestion as absurd as the one you presented tells me that you are someone who has not played an archer before, and certainly hasn't given the game enough rounds to see how archers really aren't that much of a problem. If archers were so overpowered and always able to kite everyone to death wouldn't archers constantly clutch the end of rounds and dominate the scoreboard?
It happens sometimes, but individual archers are very rarely the end of round heroes.
Your argument is not validated by exagerating it. Peasant time holds a whopping 10-12 rounds.
If you go into spectator mode and check how most archers die it is by being distracted or not aware of an immediate danger. If they are aware they rarely die and they kite others to death.
Very skilled archers even kill shielders by drawing, turning, and move past the shield in a quick move, but that is rather uncommon. Most of the time if a shielder is after them they will kite them and attack other targets.
You cannot possibly think, that the kiting garbage that is going on is enhancing the gaming experience or balance.
I for one would like to see them way more vulnerable to close infantry and cavalry in general, leading to a need for them to be protected and at the same time (some tweaks later) see the need for 2h guys to be shielded by teammates instead of rushing straight in.
Oneshotting any unarmored horse charging them? How does that enrich the balance and gaming experience? How can you justify that it happens? Is it a hard shot? Mostly oneshotting good armored cav close to impact?
I have around 60ish HP and have light kuyak + gauntlets and I get oneshotted to the chest? Obviously not always but often enough that if I see an archer being aware of me I will turn and ride away ASAP. So even if I would switch to those armored horses I am still in grave danger of dieing to a single arrow without the need of a headshot.
Grave enough of a threat, that I run away like a mad men when an archer is even looking in my general direction.
I have 8 riding and when there are a couple of HA's in the enemy team I usually try to get them on their arabian horses you know what happens? 9 out of 10 I end up dead without a chance of striking him down.
We ride in the same direction and I am faster, obviously I try to stay right side behind him so he cant shoot, which lasts about half a second until he just turns a bit to give me a shot. The damage to my horse or myself is considerable more then I do to him by scraping his horse, which is all I can realistically do every 30ish seconds. My horse or I am long dead before that happens.
Now you might say, why do you go after the HA if you cannot beat him? What do you think happens if the HA decides to go after me? He would be behind me and there is no way in hell to do anything about it but pray that he oversees another player charging him or run back into the thick of my teamates. The only difference is, that if he chases me he needs more arrows for my horse while I can do 0 about it. If I chase him the positive speed multiplier goes for his arrows and they pack a huge punch to horses. It is even worse if they do a quick turn into stop to shoot me because then he only needs one or two arrows to drop my horse.
I mean why don't you make an STF character get on a horse and try to take down Corsair. Or some other notorious archers/HA's. Just go after them and then express your feelings about it.
Even if the buff hits I won't be a cavalry by then anymore and I don't mind terribly much I just do what most cavalry players do now, couche early dehorse someone, play a bit with your new prey. Then go into the battleline and search for unaware targets unprotected by spears of any kind.
It all boils down to: Archer beats crossbowmen, 2h and cavalry, unshielded thrower.
Alright, well if we are saying that Kills don't mean anything, then what is everyone's answer to the posted total damage dealt stats released a month or so ago that showed archery (specifically bows) dealing about 9% of the total damage for both EU and NA... How are you interpreting that?
"Numbers dont count" That was their new argument. That stats thread + what we see in scoreboards, brings it all out in the open. But people dont like ranged, plain and simple, so bullshit shall fly.
Many things i have to say without saying anything...corrected that for you
1. Xbows are my favourit: i come closer then ten feet and shots go straight through the shield ...
1. Xbows are my favourit: i come closer then ten feet and shots go straight through the shield ...
2. followed by an armada of archers hording somewhere on a hill and as soon as one of them runs crying away"inf from behind" they spread out like wildfire and are all over you
3. the close combat throwers: close like within 5 feet only to get out of range of your weapon and you need to focus on the other dude in his company ... bam another throwing stuff in your side or back
Rumblood and Xynox, not sure if serious.
1. Weird, maybe it was a forcefield flicker, or he hit you in the foot.
...
1. Weird, maybe it was a forcefield flicker, or he hit you in the foot.
cute but no, it were direct hits on the shield, happens on a regular base
2. Yep, 1 shielder should tottaly be able to own several archers.
see response to 3.
3. Again, it's tottaly unfair that you're getting killed by a pair of coordinated players.
see response to 2.
look at my post again and get what you said out of the brakets ... yawn ... a what the hack isn't that difficult here we go only for you mate
(1. is in my eyes OP and needs to be changed, 2-3 are depending on the player and his personal skill level)
so your answers to 2,3 are pretty much copied from me, love it when people have to say something
Alright, well if we are saying that Kills don't mean anything, then what is everyone's answer to the posted total damage dealt stats released a month or so ago that showed archery (specifically bows) dealing about 9% of the total damage for both EU and NA... How are you interpreting that?
I just thought ...
All these people complaining about being unable to counter everyone in the game and then complaining on the forums, what do these people do in other games ? If they play a generic shooter like e.g. battlefield, are they running up to a tank as a medic and try to destroy it with a knife ? And when they get killed in the process do they send hatemails to dice, demanding knifes being able to destroy tanks because tanks have NO COUNTER and its no fair ?
Close to them, you refer to touching them, because it happens only if you try to walk through him. So yes a good movement will allow you to pull it off.
Oh and MrShine, draw a ticket and get in line, because melees die often enough in two well placed hits aswell.
Btw occasional storm condition? You mean turn left press strg + j, aim for my chest and get those 56 dmg on my chest doubled? Or the less risky variant, outmaneuver stand still wait for me to come around and then aim for the chest for increased dmg?
BF has a counter for everything implemented. Take out the SAM's and watch how the mood about flying stuff changes rapidly.
And I will tell you again, that most of the archers on EU_1 run as fast as me. I use no shield, only a lance as weapon, light kuyak, nord helm, rus splintered boots, 0.5 weight gauntlets and I have 8 athletics. Not that it matters once he draws I have to switch to erratic movement and he can backpaddle a bit and gain distance. I will die like 9 times out of 10 starting from 3m away after being unhorsed right next to them.
Oh and MrShine, draw a ticket and get in line, because melees die often enough in two well placed hits aswell.
Btw occasional storm condition? You mean turn left press strg + j, aim for my chest and get those 56 dmg on my chest doubled? Or the less risky variant, outmaneuver stand still wait for me to come around and then aim for the chest for increased dmg?