Author Topic: archery..  (Read 53310 times)

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Offline Leshma

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Re: archery..
« Reply #660 on: April 17, 2012, 06:14:08 pm »
-3
Why?

Because archery is underpowered and only the best players are able to top scoreboard as archers. Same can be said for 1H.

Offline Vote

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Re: archery..
« Reply #661 on: April 17, 2012, 06:21:36 pm »
0
Because archery is underpowered and only the best players are able to top scoreboard as archers. Same can be said for 1H.

An archer can one shot you with a head shot or 2 shot your body armor around 50 with +3 rusbow and bodkins.
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Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.
The problem of archers is the big number of horsemen.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: archery..
« Reply #662 on: April 17, 2012, 06:26:49 pm »
+1
An archer can one shot you with a head shot or 2 shot your body armor around 50 with +3 rusbow and bodkins.

The problem imo. Regular archers are underpowered if anything, but same can't be said about the fully heirloomed ones who are overpowered if anything.
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Offline narref

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Re: archery..
« Reply #663 on: April 17, 2012, 06:29:37 pm »
0
The number is not the important bit, but the percentage. wich has reduced significantly (to half in archers, slightly in crossbows, tripled in throwing :O ) since june. I honestly doubt that ranged play more toward the end of the month.

And are you suggesting that all archers decided that April was the month where they ignored peasants and focused only on the best players, accounting for the reduction in kills?

Is that how you are justifying this?

What i meant is that you just can't say that the "average mean" has actually gone lower and it isn't just a consequence of the normal variation because that mean variates every month so you cant say it's gone significantly lower just with just a so little information.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:34:58 pm by narref »

Offline Leshma

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Re: archery..
« Reply #664 on: April 17, 2012, 06:30:39 pm »
-1
Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.

Same can be said for pikemen, yet I see them on top more than I see ranged classes.

Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

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Re: archery..
« Reply #665 on: April 17, 2012, 06:33:03 pm »
+1
Same can be said for pikemen, yet I see them on top more than I see ranged classes.

problem is, pikes are more then a viable duel weapon for the ones who know how to wield it.

dunno who was talking about shields, but i beleive shields had bigger forcefields back then no?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 07:01:18 pm by Lactose_the_intolerant »

Offline Cup1d

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Re: archery..
« Reply #666 on: April 17, 2012, 06:37:02 pm »
0
Same can be said for pikemen, yet I see them on top more than I see ranged classes.

That's because Pike has comparable with bows range, better speed, more damage, cheaper, team friendly, and you can hit while doing 360° spinstab.

Also pike can hit enemy through the wall
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:39:33 pm by Cup1d »

Offline Rumblood

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Re: archery..
« Reply #667 on: April 17, 2012, 06:40:42 pm »
+1
Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.

Funny, I don't see "support class" listed in the c-RPG manual anywhere  :?:
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: archery..
« Reply #668 on: April 17, 2012, 06:41:11 pm »
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That's because Pike has comparable with bows range, better speed, more damage, cheaper, team friendly, and you can hit while doing 360° spinstab.

Hello Michael
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Offline MrShine

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Re: archery..
« Reply #669 on: April 17, 2012, 06:42:24 pm »
0

That is exactly what dodging is, and dodging is utterly UP. Compare the effectiveness and reliability of blocking a melee attack and dodging a ranged attack. Blocking is reliable, if you do it right it can't end up bad for you and doesn't lose it's effectivity when you actually want to kill your opponent. Dodging is random and becomes more and more ineffective if you try to come closer to the ranged character.

I disagree, dodging is a fantastic way to avoid most ranged damage. No you can't (and shouldn't) be 100% effective at dodging, but if you end up taking 1 arrow when closing on an archer instead of taking 3 or 4, you just reduced the archer's damage to you by 66-75%.  Dodging is like anything else, the more you practice the better you will be at it.

Quote
I have described how UP shields are as a ranged protection in my previous post so maybe you should refer to it and develop specific arguments about them. If you want more material I can add that the protection becomes hardly useful against 2 archers and definetly non-existent against more, which isn't the case when a shielder fights a melee blob.

I did read what you wrote about shield, but I reject the argument.  If you have your shield centered and facing an archer, they are almost never going to be able to shoot over/under it unless you fuck up. If you see them aiming low, you can also slightly adjust your block lower to cover you feet, vice versa for the head.   Discounting shields from being the great ranged protection they are is absurd IMO.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:46:07 pm by MrShine »
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: archery..
« Reply #670 on: April 17, 2012, 06:43:00 pm »
0
Archery is a support class and should not top the scorer boards, low risk = low reward.

If archers are low risk then they would last a lot longer, as of right now in NA the majority of end of round survivors are not a solid mass of range. From playing on EU, this seems to be the same.

Nvm, carry on everyone.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:46:18 pm by Tears of Destiny »
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: archery..
« Reply #671 on: April 17, 2012, 06:44:21 pm »
0
Gurnisson-Michael - you can use your pike and continue to use pike's glitched animations, I don't care.


Offline Kafein

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Re: archery..
« Reply #672 on: April 17, 2012, 06:44:37 pm »
0
Kafein, I remember how some shielder Olwen constantly made 50kills\2death at every map in august-december 2010. When every archer has 300 wpf in archery, and Olwen has only 5 in shield skill and 5 athletics.

So, it's not about shields, it's about ability to play good.

What is your point ? That shields are not less effective than... something else against archers ? Well yes that is completely true, I would prefer a 1h+shield over a polearm or 2h if I had to fight archers, but that is not what we are arguing about.

Lots of balance changes occured and now archers are generally weaker but shields also got weaker, especially against range, and that is what really bugs me. The class balance works because everyone has a more or less clear counterclass not depending on the situation. Cav has pikes and other long weapons, shields have crushthrough and axes, 2h/poles have ranged .The "shield counters range" one is possibly one of the weakest, because that counter is entirely defensive, with a very limited power to protect allies. Of course cav can kill archers, of course shieldless melee can kill archers, but they only do so in very particular situations such as a lack of awareness and bad positioning.

Back in the olwen times, when you had a shield and holded it in the general direction of the enemy team, you were guaranteed to catch what was shot at you. Also the movement speed wasn't such a problem because people tried to fight you instead of fleeing. Dying in the right spot was the main concern, not delaying as much as possible.

Btw : it doesn't matter but your numbers are exaggerated.

Offline MrShine

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Re: archery..
« Reply #673 on: April 17, 2012, 06:53:13 pm »
+1
You say the counters to archery have been reduced, and only lack of awareness and bad positioning leads to archery death.

And yet...

April 2012
[21:41] <Fasader> Bow: 7316 (4.45%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Crossbows: 5400 (3.29%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Thrown: 1978 (1.20%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Headshot: 5206 (3.17%)

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:54:55 pm by MrShine »
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Offline Leshma

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Re: archery..
« Reply #674 on: April 17, 2012, 06:54:29 pm »
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What is your point ? That shields are not less effective than... something else against archers ? Well yes that is completely true, I would prefer a 1h+shield over a polearm or 2h if I had to fight archers, but that is not what we are arguing about.

Depends. Good archers know how to avoid being bumped by shield and to shoot beside it. Which is wrong.