archery..

[Bulzur]

April 2012
[21:41] <Fasader> Bow: 7316 (4.45%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Crossbows: 5400 (3.29%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Thrown: 1978 (1.20%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Headshot: 5206 (3.17%)

When I joined the battle servers lately as melee guy without a shield, the ranged pressure was very low compared to earlier times. It is a joke that people still complain about (foot) archers. If there is a problem with HA or HX then it probably comes from the lack of ranged footmen that keep them in check.

(foot) archery is dangerous if you have backup. Else, you're bound to get lanced failing to hear the horse. Horse archery is just better than foot archery, even if it's a bit more expensive, it's totally worth it. Not to say that you can even do nice melee kills thanks to your horse speed bonus.

HA is the "evolution" of foot archers, so of course, you'll see fewer and fewer of thoses, thus more and more complain about HA and HX.
Unfortunately, this is the truth.

[F i n]

You charging in without shield or care and dying to arrows is not a reason to nerf archers!
Get a shield or use those of your mates. Use the cover on the maps and work together with your team-ranged.

Im saying this as a thrower which is frequently killed by archers. But when i get shot its either my own fault not taking cover or the archer's skill's just too high. And i still think both doesnt justify a nerf.

Get a shield or use those of your mates. Use the cover on the maps and work together with your team-ranged.


Open a cry-thread in offtopic instead... and dont spam the game balance discussion with 2h ppl crying.

And by the way... Archers don't complain about the 2h advantage in closecombat either...

Don't expect your class to be superiour in every game situation. Thats just stupid.

Defend the catapult,

fin

[F i n]

AAAND

[MrShine]

(foot) archery is dangerous if you have backup. Else, you're bound to get lanced failing to hear the horse. Horse archery is just better than foot archery, even if it's a bit more expensive, it's totally worth it. Not to say that you can even do nice melee kills thanks to your horse speed bonus.

HA is the "evolution" of foot archers, so of course, you'll see fewer and fewer of thoses, thus more and more complain about HA and HX.
Unfortunately, this is the truth.

Horse archery is better than foot archery?  A much more expensive, much more skill point intensive, much less damaging, much less accurate, much more weapon restricted, much more maneuverable horse archer is better than foot archery?

I disagree, I think they are a completely different type of archer, and certainly not the "evolution" of foot archers.

[narref]

Ranged kills(EU1) in cRPG over the course of time:

June 2011
[21:07] <Fasader> Bow: 9274 (9.62%)
[21:07] <Fasader> Crossbows: 4035 (4.18%)
[21:07] <Fasader> Thrown: 439 (0.46%)
[21:07] <Fasader> Headshot: 4162 (4.32%)

July 2011
[17:43] <Fasader> Bow: 24489 (7.38%)
[17:43] <Fasader> Crossbows: 13357 (4.02%)
[17:43] <Fasader> Thrown: 3612 (1.09%)
[17:43] <Fasader> Headshot: 12158 (3.66%)

September 2011
[18:19] <Fasader> Bow: 3512 (7.91%)
[18:19] <Fasader> Crossbows: 1741 (3.92%)
[18:19] <Fasader> Thrown: 621 (1.40%)
[18:19] <Fasader> Headshot: 1666 (3.75%)

December 2011
[21:17] <Fasader> Bow: 11064 (7.91%)
[21:17] <Fasader> Crossbows: 7808 (5.58%)
[21:17] <Fasader> Thrown: 2399 (1.71%)
[21:17] <Fasader> Headshot: 5212 (3.72%)

April 2012
[21:41] <Fasader> Bow: 7316 (4.45%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Crossbows: 5400 (3.29%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Thrown: 1978 (1.20%)
[21:41] <Fasader> Headshot: 5206 (3.17%)

When I joined the battle servers lately as melee guy without a shield, the ranged pressure was very low compared to earlier times. It is a joke that people still complain about (foot) archers. If there is a problem with HA or HX then it probably comes from the lack of ranged footmen that keep them in check.

But what's with January, February, March cause the fact that the amount of bow kills have been reduced in a single moth (wich hasn't finished already) doesn't mean much, statistically speaking

[Kafein]

The number of kills don't matter that much.

What matters is that killing the best players of the enemy team is much easier with a ranged weapon than with anything else. They all have good melee defense and cav defense skills. Ranged defense skill ? There is no such thing. Dodging is cool, but only works when you stay far enough, which is a problem for melee characters. The protection angle of shields is so small you can actually bypass it if you move around at facehug range with a bow so they are out too.

The number of times I've seen top players killing 4+ melee enemies alone at round end is huge. The same with 4+ archers ? That never happens.

Also, projectiles kill horses and that isn't tracked.

[Moncho]

The number of times I've seen top players killing 4+ melee enemies alone at round end is huge. The same with 4+ archers ? That never happens.

Also, projectiles kill horses and that isn't tracked.

I do that a lot, if I ever am near the top of the scoreboard it is usually either because of teamplay or because I managed to ninja around the archers and get 4-5 of them, so I disagree strongly with this. Ok, I am a shielder, but still, I disagree strongly with you

But what's with January, February, March cause the fact that the amount of bow kills have been reduced in a single moth (wich hasn't finished already) doesn't mean much, statistically speaking

The number is not the important bit, but the percentage. wich has reduced significantly (to half in archers, slightly in crossbows, tripled in throwing :O ) since june. I honestly doubt that ranged play more toward the end of the month.

[MrShine]

The number of kills don't matter that much.

What matters is that killing the best players of the enemy team is much easier with a ranged weapon than with anything else.

And are you suggesting that all archers decided that April was the month where they ignored peasants and focused only on the best players, accounting for the reduction in kills?

Is that how you are justifying this?


Also you say that there is no "ranged defense" skill... um I'm sorry but that's exactly what dodging is.. oh yeah and those wooden things that you can carry in your left hand.

[Leshma]

I support archery buff.

[Tears of Destiny]

I feel like the only person who can play this game, lol when I die, and keep playing without raging on the forums.

Feels good to be able to play c-RPG and have massive fun. Last time I raged was because the siege server was making me teleport every 2 seconds and a half (which is no fault of the mod).

This is all just sad...

[Cup1d]

Also you say that there is no "ranged defense" skill... um I'm sorry but that's exactly what dodging is.. oh yeah and those wooden things that you can carry in your left hand.

I also heard that armor can help a bit. If you wear armor this bastards need 8-10 arrows to kill you, not 2-5.

[Kafein]

I do that a lot, if I ever am near the top of the scoreboard it is usually either because of teamplay or because I managed to ninja around the archers and get 4-5 of them, so I disagree strongly with this. Ok, I am a shielder, but still, I disagree strongly with you

I doubt you ninja around archers when you are the last player of your team.

The number is not the important bit, but the percentage. wich has reduced significantly (to half in archers, slightly in crossbows, tripled in throwing :O ) since june. I honestly doubt that ranged play more toward the end of the month.

When I was saying "number", I was referring to percentages. Absolute numbers have no use in this discussion and that seemed evident to me.

I do think there are (relatively to the cRPG population) less ranged chars around than pre-263, though, and more or less the same decrease in ranged kills, but my point that they do have a very important power in battle mode still stands.

And are you suggesting that all archers decided that April was the month where they ignored peasants and focused only on the best players, accounting for the reduction in kills?

Is that how you are justifying this?

No. But even terrible archers that always aim for whom they think they can kill in one shot will eventually end up targetting the gamechangers.

Also you say that there is no "ranged defense" skill... um I'm sorry but that's exactly what dodging is..

That is exactly what dodging is, and dodging is utterly UP. Compare the effectiveness and reliability of blocking a melee attack and dodging a ranged attack. Blocking is reliable, if you do it right it can't end up bad for you and doesn't lose it's effectivity when you actually want to kill your opponent. Dodging is random and becomes more and more ineffective if you try to come closer to the ranged character.

oh yeah and those wooden things that you can carry in your left hand.

I have described how UP shields are as a ranged protection in my previous post so maybe you should refer to it and develop specific arguments about them. If you want more material I can add that the protection becomes hardly useful against 2 archers and definetly non-existent against more, which isn't the case when a shielder fights a melee blob.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

just love it when paul posts his stats, it gives more steam to the train and i get more to read 

[Vote]

I support archery buff.

Why?

[Cup1d]

Kafein, I remember how some shielder Olwen constantly made 50kills\2death at every map in august-december 2010. When every archer has 300 wpf in archery, and Olwen has only 5 in shield skill and 5 athletics.

So, it's not about shields, it's about ability to play good.