Author Topic: archery..  (Read 55674 times)

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Offline Arrowblood

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Re: archery..
« Reply #270 on: February 24, 2012, 04:32:44 pm »
+1
1 hitting is still not possible to medium armor with a mw longbow and sharp bodkins.

Offline Casimir

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Re: archery..
« Reply #271 on: February 24, 2012, 04:52:53 pm »
0
Bet it is if you headshot, and is much easier than 1 shotting someone in the same armour with a mighty morningstar?
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: archery..
« Reply #272 on: February 24, 2012, 05:11:39 pm »
0
I have a solution!!! Make all bows unsheatable (not crossbows). If archer gets into trouble and wants to use his side weapon to block hits, he has to drop his bow to the ground. No more running---> shooting---> blocking few hits---> runnin again---> repeat. They would be forced to pick up that bow again if they want to go back into shooting mode.

I have been thinking something like this for a while: make all bows 1slot, the top 2 unsheathable. Although this will probbaly make the 21 agi and 24 agi archers run EVEN MORE
I don't know enough

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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: archery..
« Reply #273 on: February 24, 2012, 05:24:46 pm »
0
Bet it is if you headshot, and is much easier than 1 shotting someone in the same armour with a mighty morningstar?

Your last post was sensible, this one however is not.
I can oneshot far more often in melee from striking the head with my morningstar character with 8PS or my miaodao 7PS then I do as an archer with 8PD, unless fighting a tin can, and even then scoring headhits in melee is substantially easier (especially if playing as a one hander, I hit the head with my steel pick about 70% of the time).

How about we return to the subject of bodyshots?

(Though helmets should protect against range more... Alot more)
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Offline Casimir

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Re: archery..
« Reply #274 on: February 24, 2012, 05:27:01 pm »
0
But one of the currently unbalancing factors of archers is the damage buff they receive through headshots.

I might not be a very good player, but i know how often my morningstar one hits people.
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: archery..
« Reply #275 on: February 24, 2012, 05:54:02 pm »
+1
I have been thinking something like this for a while: make all bows 1slot, the top 2 unsheathable. Although this will probbaly make the 21 agi and 24 agi archers run EVEN MORE
Yes, but if archers are kept this powerful then they should have bigger risks. High gain -> high risk, just like any other class. One thing would be nerfing their running speed and make them think more because they wouldn't be outrunning everyone so easilly. I'm talking about small tweaking here. If they are able to oneshot people, then there is no reason to give them immortality by letting them run as they please in the field. Just like cav (regardless horse leg hit bonus) is effective when the player knows what to do, so would archers be even if the values are adjusted.
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: archery..
« Reply #276 on: February 24, 2012, 06:10:48 pm »
+1
But one of the currently unbalancing factors of archers is the damage buff they receive through headshots.

I might not be a very good player, but i know how often my morningstar one hits people.

Indeed, and I can say the same but with my bow. Headshots do indeed produce too much damage on a hit for range, but it is far easier to hit someone in the head with a melee weapon then at range, in my opinion, that is all I am saying.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Zaren

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Re: archery..
« Reply #277 on: February 24, 2012, 06:14:17 pm »
-1
so basicly what your saying is NERF archery to the point where it cant kill you. Yeah thats sooo balanced. Heres a hint, learn to dodge
(I have and never will be an archer or any type of range. Im just tired of all the shit complaints about all the classes. What your ultimately saying is if it can kill me its OP)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 06:15:21 pm by blacktiger28 »

Offline Zaren

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Re: archery..
« Reply #278 on: February 24, 2012, 06:18:37 pm »
-1
I think that we all agree that achery needs one heathly nerf.
not at fucking all
i guarantee you you die more from the other classes than from archery and if you die the most from archery...well then thats kinda sad

Offline MrShine

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Re: archery..
« Reply #279 on: February 24, 2012, 07:01:41 pm »
-2
But one of the currently unbalancing factors of archers is the damage buff they receive through headshots.

I might not be a very good player, but i know how often my morningstar one hits people.

I don't know what the damage values are now for head damage and body damage (they seem to be a jealously kept secret), but as an archer I would trade the head damage bonus away in a HEARTBEAT if it meant increased damage to body shots.  I'll reiterate that headshots are very inconsistent and usually not worth the effort.  Yes hitting the head in melee can be hard, but it's not nearly as hard as trying to pinpoint a shot at a continuously moving target, accounting for arrow drop, elevation etc.  I made a bunch of videos with a pin-point accurate tatar bow archer that you can view below: This is really the best case accuracy, longbows for example are nowhere NEAR this in terms of accuracy, but maybe this will give you a taste of what goes into headshots.  

Putting it in this perspective, I would probably end up dealing more total damage firing 100 shots aiming for the body, than I would firing 100 shots aiming for the head.  Sure my body shots would each deal less damage, but I'll hit with them far more often.

I think we would see a lot more whine threads if body shots were increased and head damage shots normalized though  :wink:
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Offline Penitent

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Re: archery..
« Reply #280 on: February 24, 2012, 07:05:59 pm »
-1
Archery is balanced right now.
Headshots are really powerful, but they are really hard to get so its not that big of a deal.

The only reason I ever die from archers is if I already got battered up badly in melee and an archer finished me off.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: archery..
« Reply #281 on: February 24, 2012, 07:32:12 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)

And now imagine this, but with a 3X or 4X (i am piss poor at estimating things) as long drawing time and about half the time that the arrow can be held accurately + a slight delay on release. That is the oh so feared (and still nowhere near 1-hitting) longbow.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 07:34:12 pm by [ptx] »

Offline _Tak_

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Re: archery..
« Reply #282 on: February 24, 2012, 07:34:22 pm »
-2
Playing as HA it's very very hard and it's boring as hell. Your won't be able to kill anyone as a HA , 8/10 of my kills come from bumping. I am back to lancer it seems, after i am back to lancer nerf archery to the ground so that i can take about 25 arrows before i die. now thats balance

Offline Adalwulf

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Re: archery..
« Reply #283 on: February 24, 2012, 07:39:45 pm »
+1
what rufio is mad about is not that archery is too strong. It's that when i'm on I always just aim at him and i'm sure other archers do as well just to piss him off :O

Offline Rextard

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Re: archery..
« Reply #284 on: February 24, 2012, 11:33:18 pm »
0
    I can shoot most (65-85%) of my usual 35 arrows (17 bodkin, 18 tatar) into enemy horses in a round, sometimes without a single horse going down. WITH 8 PD. I stopped playing today when, after doing that, a guy on a chain-mailed horse killed me. Mind you, this is after I plugged that horse 3 times with bodkins, and then got a point blank shot on its throat as it charged at me.  So, the horse keeps running, and I get one shotted, despite ultimately dodging it several times, and shooting it much more than I got hit. Bodkins were developed to rip through lesser mails, whether or not a horse or human is wearing the mail. Of course my example leans towards an extreme of the current condition, but you get the idea.

If horses are gonna continue being as fortuitous as they are, can we at least make arrows reduce their max speed by 5 or 10% per connect? I mean, cavs can still ride on -thatched- rooves, and yet archers have lost most roof access across the board.

The fact that xbows can still get 1shot kills, with low or no wpf, as well as no skill point investment, is also a testament to my point.


Archery is balanced right now.
Headshots are really powerful, but they are really hard to get so its not that big of a deal.

The only reason I ever die from archers is if I already got battered up badly in melee and an archer finished me off.
for success.

That is not an indication of balance, it's an indication of unfair and imbalanced expectations on archery as a class.

I agree with [ptx] MrShine. I'd rather have body shot damage back, and reward archers for skill moreso than luck. Consistently hitting a target anywhere, is more skillful imo, than hitting once on a specific part, once in a while. Cuz unless the build is balanced mostly for precision shooting, headshots are just not a fair expectation of archers to fulfill regularly.


My question to the devs: Is archery ever going to be balanced around effort and investment, or will it continually be balanced by the whining of people who don't even care to play it?

I don't feel this question is unfair, and I think I deserve an answer considering:
1) of my 675 warband hours, literally like 670 were spent playing crpg.
2) Of that time, at least half or more has been spent on archery. My archery skill has gotten greater over that time, and yet my impact with that skill has become consistently less due to nerfs.
3) You seem to be patching archery based on this ideal: http://nerfguns.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nerf-bow-and-arrow.jpg
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 12:35:26 am by Rextard »