archery..

[Tzar]

I wouldn't have mind 50 - 70 %. But 18 strength, 40 body armour and full health, one-hit to the body. How can you defend that? It's way too silly. If an arbalest had one-shot me, no problem, they have high reloading time and all. Archers get too many positives for too few negatives.

Gurnisson you know it don't matter how much sense you make they will not agree with you...

Remmeber how people with barmaces an morningstars defended their crushrough ability´s  :  even though it was obviously bullshit they still used the most braindead ways of trying to make it sound fair...

[MrShine]

I wouldn't have mind 50 - 70 %. But 18 strength, 40 body armour and full health, one-hit to the body. How can you defend that? It's way too silly. If an arbalest had one-shot me, no problem, they have high reloading time and all. Archers get too many positives for too few negatives.

One gen I went 21/18 polearm build.  I had 70 hp (21 str/7 IF) and was wearing 48-50 body armor/40 head armor. 
I usually could survive a decent amount of hits, but I distinctly remember that I was one shot in melee a total of 2 times that entire gen - once by Goretooth and his MW bec, and one by... I don't remember who, just the fact I got instagibbed.

Claiming archery needs to be nerfed because you got 1 shot once is like if I claimed melee needs to get nerfed because I got 1 shot a few times.  You need to take a bunch of other stuff into account (who shot you/what was his build/what arrows did he use/were his items masterworked/how close were you to the archer/did speed bonus apply to him/ did you take the maximum amount of damage from the randomness of archery damage).

Since I remember you saying you didn't have ironflesh, that is a total of 53 hp dealt... certainly possible if everything happened in the right way.

But happening once and happening consistently are two separate issues.

[Wraist]

When you have people who are suggesting that archery damage doesn't stun opponents (..wut?) and people who will take 50-70% damage from one level 33 MW longbow MW bodkin user and come crying onto the forums with their 'proof' archery needs to be nerfed (ignoring or ignorant to the fact that they took negligible damage from 20 other arrows from different people in a map before that one high damage shot)... then what else can you say as an archer?

In low armor, there is no such thing as a negligible arrow. Most of the time they two/three shot me [Hirlock who uses a 9str build three shots me], with some able to one shot me fairly consistently. For comparison, I was hit by a +2 throwing lance from a guy with 8 PT and it did <70% of my life, and I'd probably need to hit myself two-four times.

My main issue, however, is how much range that currently exist, although, ironically, my next build is going to be a throwing lance hybrid.

[Gurnisson]

Claiming archery needs to be nerfed because you got 1 shot once is like if I claimed melee needs to get nerfed because I got 1 shot a few times. 

Again, archery is a completely different thing from melee, and different from crossbows and throwing too. I can live with getting one-shot by cav, in melee, by a throwing lance or by an arbalest, but not by an archer. An archer has too many pros to be able to one-shot medium infantry. Crossbows has high reloading time, throwing has low ammo, melee must be in the danger zone to even have a slight chance of making a one-hit. The archer can run and gun, have good kiting abilities, can easily dodge cav with their movement while still being able to shoot.

You need to take a bunch of other stuff into account (who shot you/what was his build/what arrows did he use/were his items masterworked/how close were you to the archer/did speed bonus apply to him/ did you take the maximum amount of damage from the randomness of archery damage).

Low to medium range, not running towards him. He was not at an elevated position. I don't know his build though. However with mail hauberk, mail mittens , 18 strength and full health you should be able to survive one arrow.

But happening once and happening consistently are two separate issues.

Yes, it is, but archers should in no circumstances one-shot medium infantry except for headshots of course.

[Gravoth_iii]

Again, archery is a completely different thing from melee, and different from crossbows and throwing too. I can live with getting one-shot by cav, in melee, by a throwing lance or by an arbalest, but not by an archer. An archer has too many pros to be able to one-shot medium infantry. Crossbows has high reloading time, throwing has low ammo, melee must be in the danger zone to even have a slight chance of making a one-hit. The archer can run and gun, have good kiting abilities, can easily dodge cav with their movement while still being able to shoot.

Low to medium range, not running towards him. He was not at an elevated position. I don't know his build though. However with mail hauberk, mail mittens , 18 strength and full health you should be able to survive one arrow.

Yes, it is, but archers should in no circumstances one-shot medium infantry except for headshots of course.

I have 18 str 6 IF and 53 body armour, i dont remember ever being oneshot by a body shot. I would say 40 body armour and no IF is a pretty squishy build, and getting one-shot wouldnt be way too surprising.

[MrShine]

I entered some numbers into the cRPG calculator.

Assuming a 18/21 6 PD 7 WM longbow build, with a masterwork longbow & masterwork bodkins (36 pierce damage before bonuses) shooting a target with 40 body armor, the MAXIMUM damage listed is 52 damage.
    * Minimum: 27
    * Average: 39.5
    * Maximum: 52

Someone with 18 strength and no IF has 53 hp.  Based on numbers alone you shouldn't have been one shot unless something else was going on... maybe there was speed bonus involved, or maybe the archer had even more PD (going 21/18 with 7 PD 6 WM would net the archer a max damage of 54 damage).

Either way, my point is it would take someone with fully masterworked bodkins and a masterworked longbow and dealing maximum damage to you in order to have a chance at oneshotting someone with about 50 hp & 40 armor.  And 18 strength no IF isn't a lot... you can make 15/27 melee builds with more hp than that.

Meanwhile let's look at a melee dude with 18 str/ 6 PS and a masterwork flammy hitting someone with 40 body armor:
    * Minimum: 23
    * Average: 39
    * Maximum: 55

Not to mention held attacks can do bonus damage on top of this.  Melee still wins in raw damage (as it should), all while requiring less looms (1 MW item as opposed to 2) while having a bunch more flexibility with the build... someone with a 18 str melee build will have extra skill points to add into ironflesh, shield, even riding... while the archer has to sacrifice a lot of that in order to focus on PD and WM.

[Okkam]

Yes, it is, but archers should in no circumstances one-shot medium infantry except for headshots of course.

40 body armor is not medium infantry. This is even not a light infantry. It's possible to have this armor with loomed nomad robe and mail mittens, with overall weight 6.6. Peasant in rags on the other word.

[Memento_Mori]

40 body armour, 18 strength, full health. One-hit by arrow. Enough said.

40 WHOLE BODY ARMOR?! AND 18 WHOLE STRENGTH YOU ARE A FUCKING TITAN HOW COULD A PUNY ARROW BRING YOU DOWN?!

[Gnjus]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,26589.msg386631.html#msg386631

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I think that RuConquista_Randomko has the most appropriate name in this game.

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[Gurnisson]

I have 18 str 6 IF and 53 body armour, i dont remember ever being oneshot by a body shot. I would say 40 body armour and no IF is a pretty squishy build, and getting one-shot wouldnt be way too surprising.

Like I said. Tolerable by melee, cav, arbalest and throwing lances. Not the epic kiters that run and gun.

40 body armor is not medium infantry. This is even not a light infantry.

Yes, fully clad in mail is definitely not even light infantry. This mod has obviously turned into a bunch of armor crutchers

40 WHOLE BODY ARMOR?! AND 18 WHOLE STRENGTH YOU ARE A FUCKING TITAN HOW COULD A PUNY ARROW BRING YOU DOWN?!

Take your arrogance someplace else. Like I said earlier, the one-shots from melee, cav, arbalest and throwing lances don't bother me. I know it's not the most armored build out there and accept those, however the archers shouldn't because they have enough pros already. Being able one-shot light to medium inf in addition to the reload speed and kiting is just bullshit.

[MrShine]

Take your arrogance someplace else. Like I said earlier, the one-shots from melee, cav, arbalest and throwing lances don't bother me. I know it's not the most armored build out there and accept those, however the archers shouldn't because they have enough pros already. Being able one-shot light to medium inf in addition to the reload speed and kiting is just bullshit.

Taking a MW horn bow, MW bodkin arrows, and a 15/24 5 PD/8 Ath/8 WM "machine gun" archer, here's how much damage he would do to you in your 40 armor:

    * Minimum: 18
    * Average: 28.5
    * Maximum: 39

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(your run and gun 1-shotting archer doesn't exist - he'll be 2-3 shotting light infantry like you)

[Memento_Mori]

I'm 15 strength in 52 body armor with no IF and I've yet to get one shot by an archer other than a HS.

I will now take my arrogance else where I guess lol 



Maybe you got hit by a pure ranged lvl 30 build with a decent speed bonus, 24/18. Either way, 18 str 40 body armor and you died in one shot to something... Really? Go figure.

[Tears of Destiny]

Adds thread to folder of Why I Hate The c-RPG Community.

I wonder if people remember that elevation can drastically change how arrows work, or that armour has a 50% variable.

This is level 33 me, PD 8 with 166 wpf against a 40 armour target, naked so I don't have armour penalties. Due to my high power draw:
Effective WPF: 54
WPF penalty: 67%

I use a MW Rus Bow with MW Bodkins.

Due to being level 33 and fully decked out in MW gear, I am significantly more dangerous then the average archer. There are almost no archers who can do more damage and with greater accuracy then me, besides the extremely small handful of other 33+ archers. Consider this a top level look, worse case scenario. The average archer has just 6 PD and 7WM, or the other way around, if you need a baseline.

Against 40 armour
Damage values
Minimum: 28
Average: 41
Maximum: 54

Against 50 body armour
Minimum: 22
Average: 35
Maximum: 48

Against 60 body armour
Minimum: 16
Average: 30
Maximum: 44

Against 70 body armour
Minimum: 12
Average: 25.5
Maximum: 39

Hit Points
35+2*IF+Strength

[Gurnisson]

Either way, 18 str 40 body armor and you died in one shot to something... Really? Go figure.

Like I said earlier, the one-shots from melee, cav, arbalest and throwing lances don't bother me.

[Son Of Odin]

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