I also have to wonder how Iran is going to react to this.
Of the many stunning revelations to emerge out of the wreckage of Mosul on Wednesday — 500,000 fleeing residents, thousands of freed prisoners, unconfirmed reports of “mass beheadings” — the one that may have the most lasting impact as Iraq descends into a possible civil war is that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria just got extremely rich.
As insurgents rolled past the largest city in northern Iraq, an oil hub at the vital intersection of Syria, Iraq and Turkey, and into Tikrit, several gunmen stopped at Mosul’s central bank. An incredible amount of cash was reportedly on hand, and the group made off with 500 billion Iraqi dinars — $425 million.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/06/12/isis-just-stole-425-million-and-became-the-worlds-richest-terrorist-group/
welp, sinking billions of dollars and thousands of lives certainly seems to have paid off. More importantly, all the swag american military gear? Also all theirs now. There's already increasing reports of it making it's way into Syria.
nuke every place on earth that has sand
What about California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Idaho, Colorado, Utah?...
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0610/Why-Mosul-s-fall-is-a-signature-moment-in-Iraq-video
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/12/uk-iraq-security-military-usa-idUKKBN0EN23L20140612
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/12/us-iraq-violence-idUSKBN0EN0RV20140612
http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/urgent-u-s-embassy-prepares-evacuation-plans/
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/11/world/middleeast/isis-control-map.html?hp&_r=0
So, the Syrian civil war expands. ISIS has completely fucked up the Iraqi army and controls most of the important areas of Iraq, and is going to assault Baghdad anyday. The american embassy is already evacuating. Oil prices are spiking. Most of the Iraqi army evaporated, was captured or joined up, the shia who did not manage to pass as sunni were sumarely executed, estimates of ~1500 of them. The captured ones were all wearing civilian clothing as they were trying to escape, so who knows how many more got away.
I'm almost certain the US is going to intervene, and if it does, it will be put in the akward position of fighting the enemies of Assad and unvoluntarily joining a side in the Syrian civil war, on the side of the dictator who's deposing they tacitly supported! Interesting times.
We shouldn't have invaded Iraq or Ghanistan... such a colossal failure.
Harvard estimates that the cost of both the wars by the time we exit completely will be around 6 trillion dollars. The interest paid on this borrowed money is already in the hundreds of billions and will probably reach 1 trillion+ soon.
If the government would have taken that 6 trillion dollars and spread it evenly to every american, each household would get roughly 75,000$... Sure most of us would waste that 75,000$ but would it be as much as a waste as the Iraq and Afghan wars?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-wars-in-afghanistan-iraq-to-cost-6-trillion/5350789 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-wars-in-afghanistan-iraq-to-cost-6-trillion/5350789)
*clicks expecting ghost*
Well, what about Turkey? (Might have over read their mentioning)
On a short news here, they stated that Erdogan is already hitting the propaganda button. Things like "We won't let them endanger Turkish sovereignty! If they think they can do this to Turkey then they... blablabla"
Is a cooperation between USA and Turkey thinkable? US drones hitting targets while Turkish troops hit the ground? It would fit to Erdogan in way. Not to mention the affair when his government was/is suspected to be involved in specific provocation actions...
Not much information all around it seems.
usually when you click stuff like this after like 30 seconds a screaming ghost appears... anyway it could do with subtitles so i could understand it. The lil chant in the background is pretty catchy tho
ISIS fucking up the iraqi army would imply that they actually put up even a semblance of a fight. If the Iraqi army had even tried to fight they would crush ISIS :/ We will see if they have the bottle to fight for their country in the next few days i guess
why are they randomly drive by shooting people?
Well, what about Turkey? (Might have over read their mentioning)
On a short news here, they stated that Erdogan is already hitting the propaganda button. Things like "We won't let them endanger Turkish sovereignty! If they think they can do this to Turkey then they... blablabla"
Is a cooperation between USA and Turkey thinkable? US drones hitting targets while Turkish troops hit the ground? It would fit to Erdogan in way. Not to mention the affair when his government was/is suspected to be involved in specific provocation actions...
Not much information all around it seems.
I think he was trying to say to nuke every place on earth that has muslims.
Shiite vs Sunni religious wars give no piety penalty in Europa Universalis 4.
War justified
This is just good for the U.S. Iran has its hands full with Iraq now, and vice versa.
US is already coordinating possible air support for iranian troops in Iraq, plus the iraqi security forces obviously (i.e shiite Iraq). Unlikely bedfellows, but there you have it. Saudi and Qatari incompetent, useless, disgustingly rich, playboy, kidfucking bundle of stickss obviously can't control the retarded extremist fanatics they've funded and unleashed, and I doubt the US is further going to humour their moronic grand strategy for a completely sunni middle east, not if it risks their own "project" in Iraq.
What about California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Idaho, Colorado, Utah?...
https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4 (https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4)
If you want to see some really graphic propaganda from ISIS.
Iran's president has said he would consider working with the US to combat Islamist militants in Iraq, as he offered help fight the insurgents.http://news.sky.com/story/1282087/iraq-iran-offers-to-work-with-arch-foe-us
https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4 (https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4)
If you want to see some really graphic propaganda from ISIS.
Is a cooperation between USA and Turkey thinkable?
https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4 (https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4)Should just nuke that whole part of the world and call it a day.
If you want to see some really graphic propaganda from ISIS.
I misunderstood 'graphic', this was horrible too watch...
I misunderstood 'graphic', this was horrible too watch...
Heretics have no piety
WP Paradox
Muslims are the only ones who have a piety mechanic in Europa universalis 4. And correction to my previous statement, Shiite vs Sunni wars actually give a positive piety boost, so basically wars between them are encouraged.
They have casus belli but i think USA will try to enforce white peace but ISIS probably wont accept so America will became war leader for Shiites.
However ISIS already has good warscore, now they just need to take the capital for a positive warscore tick before the US mobilises, then demand full anexation.
They wont get much Agressive expansion since they had cores on that territory and they just need to demand them back.
And since they have high piety from the war they can easily convert the provinces to Sunni, GG WP ISIS EU4 pro.
Welcome to the internet.I've seen prisoners getting killed, but I've never seen random people one the street being shot while driving their vehicle and all this accompanied by euphoric shouting.
ISIS might have a good warscore but if Iraq is AI they will have a huge malus in peace negotiations due to military strength, relative strength of alliances and also length of war.
I've seen prisoners getting killed, but I've never seen random people one the street being shot while driving their vehicle and all this accompanied by euphoric shouting.Welcome to people in that part of the world. There's a reason why most vets are also in favor of just nuking it.
This seems like the endgame ISIS is going for[...]
Hence what I said right after it.
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This seems like the endgame ISIS is going for, or at least that's as far as they're ever going to get, outside of some real implausible victories and massive ethnic cleansing.
That entire article and the maps are worth reading really.
http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east
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This seems like the endgame ISIS is going for, or at least that's as far as they're ever going to get, outside of some real implausible victories and massive ethnic cleansing.
That entire article and the maps are worth reading really.
http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east
usa+syria+iran+kurds=kill Iraq
i'd still rather think its because of uncultured and undereducated people that can't deal with each other in a peaceful way for variety of retarded reasons - mostly religion (and nationalism). they would fight each other sooner or later, usa with idiotic intervention just speeded up the process.
i'd still rather think its because of uncultured and undereducated people that can't deal with each other in a peaceful way for variety of retarded reasons - mostly religion (and nationalism). they would fight each other sooner or later, usa with idiotic intervention just speeded up the process.
To be honest those borders would probably be better when it comes to decreasing religious, cultural and ethnic tensions. However, I don't think it is desirable to have any of those parts ruled by people who do "mass beheadings".
:lol: Intervention in Iraq was an abysmal failure. The imagine you paint is like some guy crapped his pants then wore his shitty stained pants as a headress for years, then proclaims proudly "I meant to do that!". The people they put in charge of the occupation had not one fucking clue about the history or culture of iraqi people, they just applied their own ethnocentric expectations on a completely different context. The disbanding of the army and abolition of all high placed baathist positions under Saddam was but an inkling of their neo-con arrogant incompetence. And now you want to pretend this result was exactly what they had in mind? Not everything that happens in the world is a carefully orchestrated event by shadowy cabals who have godlike control of everything. Only idiots and paranoids believe that.
Also double lol at the US being immune to religion and nationalism. If there's any retards the US government is great at manipulating through religion and nationalism, dividing and pitting them against each other on the dumbest of pretexts, it's americans themselves.
US strategists are stupid (or crazy...) but they are powerfull. When they plan to redraw the Middle East borders, they pepper money to some key people (Al Qaeda leaders, for exemple), they sell weapons and they bomb every stable countries. The result may be chaotic but it was the plan.Oh really, they're stupid? What makes you think so? Prithee, I'd love to hear you explain.
Destabilization has many advantages, that would be too long to explain here.
Stupid because they lake of basic humanism. If you think that money and power value everything else, well, ok, they are sooo intelligent........
.......
Look up the definition of "stupid."
Protip: says nothing about "humanism."
Who wrote this ?
Do you want to be led by a computer ?
Stupid because they lake of basic humanism.
Meh, same response as to Berenger."You know the rule: never assume malice when the facts are consistent with mere stupidity."
Not everything that happens in the world is a carefully orchestrated event by shadowy cabals who have godlike control of everything. Only idiots and paranoids believe that.
"You know the rule: never assume malice when the facts are consistent with mere stupidity."That's why i don't assume Tovi is a KGB agent, sent to make us more dumb.
The ISIL/ISIS force make alot of noise. nasty massexecutions and random secterian violence.
They show off by killing local police and civilians.
But they can not take on any real army.
Mostly halftrained militiaguys with a core of hardened veterans from other conflicts.
My (highly speculative) guess is that they retreat/crumble as soon as they meet some real resistance.
A lot of ex-soldier from Saddam Hussein army joined them in Irak. They want to take their revenge.What a splendid job those guys did when US invaded.
Meh, same response as to Berenger.
Not everything that happens in the world is a carefully orchestrated event by shadowy cabals who have godlike control of everything. Only idiots and paranoids believe that.
All this sounds similar to barbarian auxiliaries during the Roman Empire. You think you can use them against other barbarians. But one day...You clearly do not understand the US in the least. You seem to think it's like Russia, with a Putin-like dictator. It is not. Again: democracy, and a broken one at that -- the leaders do not give a fuck about the long-term effects of the Iraq or Afghanistan war, they just want to get re-elected. Even if they did give a fuck? New people get elected, the country changes course -- it's like a schizophrenic giant, don't assume it has a master plan. And there's also certain things they can't get away with. For example, the American public would never accept what it'd take to wage an effective war, not until there's a massive new terror attack and they'll get mad enough.
You just do not understand how works the Power in democracy. It's not in the hands of the guy you see on TV.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
The foreign policy is mainly decided by the CFR. And their decision and plans must be approved by the Senate. But who cares about these guys as long as you don't see them on TV hmm ?
So, enjoy soccer and never try to use your brain, it hurts.
ISIL in Syria : good guys
ISIL in Iraq : bad, terrorism
When did anyone say that ISIL were heroes in Syria
Other rebel groups united against them because of their bullshit
Did you ever noticed that ? You cannot post a video on Youtube with the last Britney Spears on your family video records without being censored in 24 hours. But any Jihadist/Al Qaeda can make his llittle propaganda and recruit on Youtube without any trouble...
CONSPIRACY !!!! :twisted: :lol:
True story. At this time, even their former backers aren't sure about what to do with them. See this picture below. It shows their jihad targets. They want to be a nuisance even in eastern Europe it seems. Also, on another note, they have recently demanded the cities Hatay and İstanbul be handed over to them by Turkey. As hounds off the leash, their insolence keeps growing. This means they might even pull some big shit in a crowded city like İstanbul in the upcoming days.
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Our government supported ISIS. Now, they are killing Turks in Iraq. They are fighting but we cant do a shit as Turkey. Thats really pathetic.
Ottoman wannabe
And tell that to the millions of sheep our country accommodates. Throughout history, it has always been rough for us economically, politically and international-relations-wise. However, we have never been insulted, demeaned, suffered and failed so hard. Still, the sheep will chant the name of that bloody bigot. Still, they will believe the tales of restoring the former Ottoman Empire, just as how the prime bigot himself bought the bogus claim that he could become the next sultan. So much for that bullshit. This is what happens in the end. The terrorists you supposedly control start threatening you and take over your totally unrealistic aspirations.
By the way, here in Turkey, there is a media ban about news related to Mosul and the ISIS business in general. They are currently holding about 80 of our citizens captive and constantly butchering the Turkoman population in Iraq. And it is forbidden for our media to talk about it. Is the ban known? Yes, it is known. Will the sheep care? No, they don't give a fuck. Again, tell that to the dumbfuck sheep.
Why do Saudi leaders always seem like enlightened, well-meaning and reasonable in between running people over with hummers ?
You're a 40+ year old man who is convinced 9/11 was planned and orchestrated by the CIA. I don't need to add any insults, that just speaks for itself.
To vi or not to vi, that is the question.
League of Legends refference?
In 2014, it was reported that Al-Baghdadi was in US custody in 2005, and was held at Camp Bucca, a US-controlled detention facility in Iraq, until he was transferred to Iraqi control in 2009[12][13] under an agreement signed by President George W. Bush the previous year.[14] However, according to US Department of Defense records, al-Baghdadi was held as a "civilian internee" at Camp Bucca by US Forces-Iraq from early February 2004 until early December 2004 when he was released. A Combined Review and Release Board recommended the "unconditional release" of al-Baghdadi and there is no record of him being detained by the US at any other time
While the Western media portray the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant as a group of jihadists reciting the Qur’an, the ISIL has started the oil war in Iraq. With the help of Israel, it has cut off Syria’s supply and guaranteed the theft of oil from Kirkuk by the local government of Kurdistan. The sale will be assured by Aramco who will camouflage this diversion as increased "Saudi" production.
For the Atlanticist press, the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). which has just invaded the north and west of Iraq. is a group of jihadists led by their faith, the Koran in one hand and a Kalashnikov in the other. For those who have suffered their abuses, including in Syria, it is a private army of mercenaries, composed from the four corners of the Earth and managed by American, French and Saudi officers - dividing the region to allow easier control by the colonial powers.
If one conceives of members of the ISIL as armed believers, we cannot imagine dark material interests behind their attack. But if we admit that these thugs are manipulating religion to give the illusion that Allah blesses their crimes, we must be more attentive.
While shedding crocodile tears for the thousands of Iraqi victims of this offensive, the Atlanticist press decries the consequences of this new conflict for oil prices. Within days, the barrel rose to $115, that is to say the level of September 2013. Markets were concerned about the fight for the Baiji refinery near Tikrit. In reality, this refinery produces only for local consumption, which could quickly run out of fuel and electricity. Rising oil prices is not due to the interruption of Iraqi production, but the disruption of deliveries. It will thus not last as markets are in surplus
Saudi Arabia has announced that it will significantly increase its production to compensate for the reduced supply due to the marketing ban by ISIL. But experts are skeptical and point out that the kingdom has never produced more than 10 million barrels per day.
The Atlanticist press, which denies the sponsorship of NATO, learnedly explained that the ISIL suddenly became rich by conquering oil wells. This was already the case in northern Syria, but it had not noticed. The western press had tried to deal with fighting between the al-Nosra Front and the Islamic Emirate as a rivalry exacerbated by the "regime", while they sought to monopolize the oil wells.
However, a question arises to which the Atlanticist media and the Gulf is still has no answer: how can these terrorists sell oil on the international market so monitored by Washington? In March, the Libyan Benghazi separatists had failed to sell the oil that they had seized. The U.S. Navy intercepted the tanker Morning Glory and had returned it to Libya. [1]
If the Frente al-Nosra and the ISIL are able to sell oil on the international market, they are authorized by Washington and are linked to storefront oil companies.
Chance has it that the annual world congress of the oil companies was held from June 15 to 19 in Moscow. We thought there would be talk of Ukraine, but there the issues were Iraq and Syria. It was learned that the oil stolen by the Frente al-Nosra in Syria is sold by Exxon-Mobil (the Rockefeller firm that rules Qatar), while that of ISIL is operated by Aramco (USA / Saudi Arabia ). Note in passing that during the Libyan conflict, NATO authorized Qatar (that is to say, Exxon-Mobil) to sell oil from the " territories liberated by al-Qaeda”.
We can therefore read the current fighting, as all those of the twentieth century in the Middle East, as a war between oil companies. [2] The fact that the ISIL is financed by Aramco is enough to explain why Saudi Arabia claims to be able to compensate for the decline in Iraqi production: the kingdom would just put its stamp on the stolen barrels to legalize them.
The ISIL breakthrough allows it to control the two main pipelines: the one exiting toward Banias to supply Syria while the other transporting crude to the Turkish port of Ceyhan. The Islamic Emirate has interrupted the first, causing additional power outages in Syria, but strangely, it allows the second to function.
This is because this pipeline is used by the local pro-Israel Kurdistan government to export the oil it just stole from Kirkuk. However, as I explained last week [3], the ISIL attack is coordinated with Kurdistan to cut Iraq into three smaller states, according to the map reshaping "the Greater Middle East" established by US Staff in 2001, that the U.S. military failed to win in 2003, but Senator Joe Biden had adopted by Congress in 2007. [4]
Kurdistan has begun its oil exports from Kirkuk via the ISIL-controlled pipeline. Within days, it was able to load two tankers at Ceyhan, chartered by Palmali Shipping & Agency JSC, the company of billionaire Turkish-Azeri Mubariz Gurbanoğlu. However, after the al-Maliki government, which has not been overthrown by Washington, issued a note denouncing this theft, none of the companies usually working in Kurdistan (Chevron, Hess, Total) dared to buy this oil. Failing to find a buyer, Kurdistan has declared its readiness to sell its cargo at half price at $ 57.5 per barrel, while continuing its traffic. Two other tankers are being loaded, always with the blessing of the ISIL. The fact that traffic continues in the absence of a market shows that Kurdistan and the ISIL are convinced that they will succeed in finding a buyer, indicating they have the same state supports: Israel and Saudi Arabia.
The possible division of Iraq into three will not fail to reshuffle the oil cards. In the face of the ISIL breakthrough, all oil companies have reduced their staff. Some more than others: this is the case of BP, Royal Deutsch Shell (which employs Sheikh Moaz al-Khatib, the geologist former president of the Syrian National Coalition), Türkiye Petrolleri Anonim Ortaklığı (TPAO) and Chinese companies (PetroChina, Sinopec and CNOOC).
So the losers are the British, the Turks, and especially the Chinese, who were by far Iraq’s largest customer. The winners are the U.S., Israel and Saudi Arabia.
The stakes are thus unrelated to a fight for the "true Islam."
Source
Al-Watan (Syria)
"Atlanticist Press" as a concept, makes as much sense as "Pacificist Press"
L'AFP est gouvernée par un conseil d'administration de 16 membres :
8 représentants des directeurs de journaux quotidiens
2 représentants du personnel de l'AFP élus à bulletins secrets
2 représentants de la radio et de la télévision française
3 représentants des services publics : le premier ministre, le ministre de l'économie, des finances et de l'industrie et le ministre des affaires étrangères nommant chacun un représentant.
le président directeur général (PDG), choisi par le conseil d'administration en dehors de ses membres, élu par au moins 12 voix sur 16, pour un mandat de 3 ans renouvelable52.
Interesting : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadivisitors can't see pics , please register or login
In 2005, he was already known as a dangerous terrorist.
Also; how ISIS sells his oil :
If this forum is a resource for political news and events for you, then clearly you aren't trying at all. Got to get over that 30 second attention span.
Have you heard about a possible Iran/USA cooperation ? It's a pure propaganda. Iran says there've never received such proposition. So why all western medias talk about a possible alliance USA/Iran in Iraq ?
They don't even agreed about sending 300 military/spies in Iraq.
Propaganda doesn't comes from medias themselves, they just repeat lies without any control or any doubts ( by choice ?).
With the last alliance between Al Nosra and ISIS, we know it was just an internal struggle for power. As the war in Syria cannot be won, the goal is to create a new sunni state in the area.I think it's quite impossible, but who knows ?.Anyway, it would takes years.
Iran says there've never received such proposition.
Must be a zionist conspiracy.
From what I've read ISIS are crucifying people.Eastern is early this year.(click to show/hide)
From what I've read ISIS are crucifying people.(click to show/hide)
Russia have sent 12 Su-24 to help Iraq gvt. That's much more than 300 GI's :D
http://www.iraqinews.com/baghdad-politics/defense-ministry-confirms-arrival-sukhoi-su-24-fighter-jets-iraq/
Here Panos, take a hat and join Tovi in the corner over there...
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Easy to call names Molly but that's not a logical argument against Panos's point of view. There is some validity in what he says.I think my post made it pretty clear that I disagree. There was no other intention in my post except calling him a dumbass too, besides me disagreeing.
You do realize that you sound like some Russia fan-boy?
Do you realize you sound like a US fan boy ?If you can show me one post that underlines your statement, I'll shut up in the thread. :rolleyes:
I'm just saying Russia seems more serious in the fight Al Qaeda
Do you realize you sound like a US fan boy ?
I hate moslems, they should all go awai, they are killing europe :(
U.S.A
USAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAvisitors can't see pics , please register or login
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lel tovi get rekt
Greece was under muslim oppression for 382 years, almost all of our neighbors are muslims (Turkey, Albania, Skopja, Egypt), and all of them hate/despise/loath/envy Greece for various reasons.
To you, dear Molly and PTX, I may look like a retard, or a neo nazee, or a racist, but what you fail to see is that not only Greece has no friends around, but the muslim threat is imminent to us.
History repeats itself, and if you take a closer look at Greek/Byzantine history, you will see 90% of the wars against Greeks, come from people from Anatolia and beyond (Persians, Ottomans, Egyptians).
You can call me stupid and whatever else you like, but to me you`re just another anti european, who prefers to bend over and spread legs to INVADERS, instead of fighting for his country.
You`re a pathetic prick who is always on an imaginery witch hunt to purge "neo nazees" from the internet.
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This is the califat that the ISIS pricks want to build, and as you can see it has Greece in it.
Time comes, I`ll be sure to butcher as many ISIS wankers as I can before I die.
Panos, don't fall in the trap of the religion war.
Your idiocy is really starting to reach staggering levels now. Are you asserting that the US is somehow responsible for extreme right wing parties in Europe? Are you literally fucking retarded? If there's any political ideology in Europe that hates the US more than the extreme left wing, it's the extreme right wing.
And I don't give a shit about Islam the religion. People are free to worship whatever sky fairy they like. Anyone who doesn't realize that Islam the political ideology, however, is a clear and present danger to Europe is just ignorant. The problem is separating the two when they are synonymous for so many of it's followers.
Muslims need to collectively reopen the "Gates of Ijtihad" and re-turn to something closer to the Mu'ztazilite interpretation, instead of the anti-intellectual, anti-rationalist A'shari doctrine that has dominated their religion for a thousand years.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science
I think my post made it pretty clear that I disagree. There was no other intention in my post except calling him a dumbass too, besides me disagreeing.
So, I actually think that my post was pretty much exactly on point for what I intended to say...
There is little validity to him posting the same crap in literally every fucking thread like a spambot.
Far right parties, especially in Ukraine, Poland and Italy are under CIA's control (Svoboda, Gladio...). Even Lepen, from french Front National, had strong links with the US in its begining. The "free world" used fascist and islamist groups during the Cold War and so on keep using them for subversives operations, terrorism, civil war, destabilization, coup, assassination etc.
I don't say all of them are under foreign influence, but some of them are.
But most important : the fact that djihadist or neo-nazees hates America is really not the point.
They are good auxilliaries. Fighting against commies, against Russia, against Syria or Iran. We don't need their love, we need them to give their live for the Empire. They can shout "Allah Akbar, burn America" in Iraq, we don't give a fuck as long they sell their oil to Saudi Arabia then to the West.
You just have to control the leaders. Who care about what cannon fodder think ? :rolleyes:
What the actual fuck.
So if I join an extermist group, I can say that I am a CIA operative? Tovi stay classy with that logic of yours.
Yes, that was the point I have made.
You need to wake the F up, what Empire? What Auxilliaries? You have a weird Roman empire fetish that you want to reflect to the US for some reason.
If the U.S wouldn't care about what us "cannon fodder" think, they could have just bombed the entire globe for lulz, then put their flag everywhere and claim countries as theirs. Did that happen?
Oh.
You do not understand what "control" or "influence" means.
So your intention was to conduct an ad hominem attack while giving no reason for disagreeing with his statement other than you don't like him?I don't even know what that means and I am too lazy... actually, I can't be arsed to look it up.
I don't even know what that means and I am too lazy... actually, I can't be arsed to look it up.Don't worry, evidently Turkhammer doesn't know what ad hominem attacks are either.
I wanted to call Tovi and Panos dumbasses cuz that's what they are in my opinion. Nothing else, really. Is that so hard to understand?
I had my fair share of arguing with both of them and since I concluded that there is no point in doing so, I fall back to just insult them whenever I think they deserve it. 8-)
I don't even know what that means and I am too lazy... actually, I can't be arsed to look it up.
I wanted to call Tovi and Panos dumbasses cuz that's what they are in my opinion. Nothing else, really. Is that so hard to understand?
I had my fair share of arguing with both of them and since I concluded that there is no point in doing so, I fall back to just insult them whenever I think they deserve it. 8-)
I don't even know what that means and I am too lazy... actually, I can't be arsed to look it up.
I wanted to call Tovi and Panos dumbasses cuz that's what they are in my opinion. Nothing else, really. Is that so hard to understand?
I had my fair share of arguing with both of them and since I concluded that there is no point in doing so, I fall back to just insult them whenever I think they deserve it. 8-)
I`d love to see you insulting me in my face :wink:How would he get inside your face, though?
How would he get inside your face, though?Close enough to FrenchKiss !
I`d love to see you insulting me at my face :wink:...
http://www.wikihow.com/React-Immaturely-when-Someone-Insults-YouOh my fucking god, the wikihows are always so fucking awkward and I feel embarrassed just reading them
http://www.wikihow.com/React-Immaturely-when-Someone-Insults-YouSomehow I ended up here.
I`d love to see you insulting me at my face :wink:
Tovi you seem to worship the US government for some reason. You really seem to think they are godlike, superhumanly intelligent manipulators, that literally nothing happens on the planet without their consent.
You know what would've been super perfect if they just wanted to control the region for it's oil? Maybe setup a friendly, democratic regime in Iraq. They tried and failed spectacularly because they had no idea wtf they were doing and left the whole thing in charge of stupid neo-cons with zero understanding of the region and it's history. Now you're trying to pretend that it was all a carefully calculated maneuver? That they wanted their pet project to implode under sectarian warfare?
I mean, you stupidly claimed at one point in this thread that Iran was funding AQ. Only someone completely ignorant of even the most basic facts could claim something like that. I can only conclude you know absolutely nothing beyond what your infowars conspiracy websites brainwashed into your malleable, naive brain.
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Tovi you seem to worship the US government for some reason. You really seem to think they are godlike, superhumanly intelligent manipulators, that literally nothing happens on the planet without their consent.Tovi just doesn't understand how the US political system works, at all.
You know what would've been super perfect if they just wanted to control the region for it's oil? Maybe setup a friendly, democratic regime in Iraq. They tried and failed spectacularly because they had no idea wtf they were doing and left the whole thing in charge of stupid neo-cons with zero understanding of the region and it's history. Now you're trying to pretend that it was all a carefully calculated maneuver? That they wanted their pet project to implode under sectarian warfare?
I mean, you stupidly claimed at one point in this thread that Iran was funding AQ. Only someone completely ignorant of even the most basic facts could claim something like that. I can only conclude you know absolutely nothing beyond what your infowars conspiracy websites brainwashed into your malleable, naive brain.
Tovi just doesn't understand how the US political system works, at all.
Then again, what DOES he understand? Now there's a question I don't know the answer to.
I admit, I'm a stupid vassal. Can you explain me how works the world model of Democracy ? I'm very curious to read a political opinion from you. Please.I could explain, but you wouldn't understand, so I'd just be wasting my time.
I like the overreaction about ISIS. They have more muslim enemies right now than any non muslims. If they manage to take entire Iraq, Iran will get involved. If they touch Jordania, Israel said they will step in. And if they by miracle would beat all these nations then BLUFOR troops would get involved for sure.
I could explain, but you wouldn't understand, so I'd just be wasting my time.
[...]Well, since you root for more innocent people to die, let's all hope it happens at your front door then... :shock: :rolleyes:
As I said already, it`s a matter of time before the next wave of terrorist hits in Europe by fanatic muslims who support ISIS, and in all honesty I hope for some terrorist hits to happen, hoping Europeans will wake the fuck up.
I like the overreaction about ISIS. They have more muslim enemies right now than any non muslims. If they manage to take entire Iraq, Iran will get involved. If they touch Jordania, Israel said they will step in. And if they by miracle would beat all these nations then BLUFOR troops would get involved for sure.
As I said already, it`s a matter of time before the next wave of terrorist hits in Europe by fanatic muslims who support ISIS, and in all honesty I hope for some terrorist hits to happen, hoping Europeans will wake the fuck up.
Al Qaeda doesn`t want anything to do with ISIS, because ISIS is too extreme, even for them!
Lmao holy shit. Someone ban this islamophobic neo-chocolate chip cookie who is wishing innocent Europeans dead over international jihad. Like fuck. Who actually thinks this way?
Well, since you root for more innocent people to die, let's all hope it happens at your front door then... :shock: :rolleyes:
Al Nosra ("Al Qaeda" in Syria) is now under control of ISIS. And both are led by prince Bandar (Saudi Arabia secret services), back in business.
Every time you write something, I lose a little hope for humanity. People with views like yours are the reason why Hit ler wasnt stopped at the right time.
Do you even read mainstream news ???
By AFP
4:35PM BST 25 Jun 2014
Al-Qaeda’s Syrian offshoot has issued a loyalty pledge to Isis at a remote town on the Iraqi border, a monitor said.
The merger is significant as it opens the way for Isis to take control of both sides of the border at Albu Kamal in Syria and al-Qaim in Iraq, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Isis – which aspires to create an Islamic state that straddles Iraq and Syria – has spearheaded an lightening jihadist offensive that has captured swathes of territory north and west of Baghdad this month.
After months of clashes between the two sides, al-Qaeda’s official Syrian arm the al-Nusra Front “pledged loyalty to Isis” in Albu Kamal, said Observatory director Rami Abdel Rahman.
“The pledge comes amid advances by Isis in Deir Ezzor province” in eastern Syria on the Iraqi border, Abdel Rahman told AFP.
Just in the other thread you stated that you dont understand how Ukr can be supported cause it probably commits ethnic cleansing.
And now you say you support ISIS, the one that with fucking 100% certainty commits ethnic cleansing to the most horrid extent. And dont tell me this is some western propaganda you keep always throwing, when the islamic countries themselves state it. Seriusly dude, you are just trying to piss people off.
People with your views are extremely wrong. Thats what it is. I personally know from my own experience that the sources you read are wrong.
lol, I was sure you'd respond that ! :lol: No matter, it confirms what I think of you.rofl, I was sure you'd reply with THAT xD So predictable
I mean, they just want to create a sunni country between Iraq and Syria, not to invade the world.
I mean, they just want to create a sunni country between Iraq and Syria, not to invade the world.
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this was map was literally released by the ISIS themselves
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginNice new world. :o
this was map was literally released by the ISIS themselves
Muslims need to collectively reopen the "Gates of Ijtihad" and re-turn to something closer to the Mu'tazilite interpretation that made them the center of the scientific world during their Golden Age, instead of the anti-intellectual, anti-rationalist A'shari doctrine that has dominated their religion for the lastThis.thousand year400 years
About Iraq and american medias : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/27/iraq-war-critics-tv-bookers_n_5534549.html
I honestly hope they get their own country out of Iraq and Syria, because they sure as hell have earned it and put up with a lot of turmoil from Saddam's nerve gas attacks to ISIS incursions into their territory.
Allied with ISIS.
“We decided to go on the offensive and fight the terrorists to the last breath,” said Kurdistan Region President Massoud Barzani Monday afternoon. “We have ordered the Peshmerga to attack the terrorists and enemies of Kurdistan with all their power.”Stuff like this seems weird.
I`ve been watching some Kurdish videos and I absolutely respect the Kurds. They've done nothing but mind their own business for the past few decades and want nothing but to live in peace with those around them. The Sunnis and Shiites could learn a lot from their cooperative and open nature.
They've taken refugees from every sect and group from Syria to Iraq and have taken the fight to ISIS on their own territory and even in northern Iraqi cities. I honestly hope they get their own country out of Iraq and Syria, because they sure as hell have earned it and put up with a lot of turmoil from Saddam's nerve gas attacks to ISIS incursions into their territory.
Well with 10.000 Kurds on the ground, and all these air support claims, it doesn't look any good for ISIS.
This is obviously a false flag. As we all know, they are allied with ISIS and the zionist-american Israel axis that controls them.
Kurdistan would make more sense than the current derp borders in that region.
Yeah, for you it is just all about breaking imaginary lines. Dropping cotton candy in a pool of mud. No biggie, just draw another line or go buy a new cotton candy, right?
Why would all that even matter to you? Any resulting conflict wouldn't even be close enough to bring the fallout to you, god forbid.
I have no illusions that mindest will change in my lifetime, doesn't mean I have to accept it though.
But go on and deliver that message to, for example, Israel which ate the Palestinian lands from inside and took it to as far as self-righteous massacre.
Well that would require generations of education and cease in fundamental religious and cultural brainwashing.
I've talked shit about Ataturk on these forums before, but that was largely to troll Cicero. That man is the reason Turkey is literally the best muslim majority country to date on every single metric. Morrocco is also pretty cool, but not nearly as large and influential as Turkey. The only problem was he ALSO absorbed a lot of the western racial theory bullcrap along with the good secular ideas, leading to stuff like the mass deportation of armenians to die in desert "gulags".
Regardless, here is a good article (http://www.globalresearch.ca/plans-for-redrawing-the-middle-east-the-project-for-a-new-middle-east/3882) I like to refer to about it.Good article, thanks.
why are they randomly drive by shooting people?
I don't think it was linked to secularism in particular. It was linked to the very idea of a "modern" nation-state, which is what Ataturk was trying to turn an area of the former Ottoman Empire into, specifically Anatolia. The idea of a nation-state at the time being inextricably linked to a homogenous population all with the same culture, language, etc...self-determination and sovereignty were supposed to be determined by "race" and culture.
"Bombing them is now allowed, if the terrorists threaten the US personnel in the area".
Yesterday, Pentagon refuted media claims that "USA was getting ready to bomb ISIS". And today, I read the same news as you shared, but the version I read says "Bombing them is now allowed, if the terrorists threaten the US personnel in the area".Maybe you should get better sources? Obama has been discussing the option of bombing ISIS for a while now.
I have no doubt in my mind they will eventually
BUT ULTIMATELY, lets compare Islam to Christianity: Muslims are SIX HUNDRED YEARS behind Christianity in their timelineMost retarded thing I've heard this year, nice.
Hopefully, maybe in only a few generations time, we can finally forget these fucking jokes, Religion, Nation, and realise that we all live on the same planet, we draw our life from the same star, we are bound together and our future is together or not at all.
There is no time for such things religious schism, nationlism, the petty deseases of childish minds. We need to be realistic. As a species we need to grow up.
Most retarded thing I've heard this year, nice.
Up until about the 16th century muslim areas were more urban, rich and technologically advanced than anything in Catholic lands. The byzantine remnants of the Roman Empire were more or less always on par with them however, especially considering such a huge chunk of it was the building block of islamic expansion and conquest. People seem to forget all of north africa and the mid-east as far as persian borders was culturally christian for centuries.Yes, treating religions like humans ("it's ok they're immature when they're 6 years old but they get better at 18") is retarded.
May as well say christianity has thousands of years of catchup to play to judaism, which is somehow more "progressive" (?) just because it's been around longer.
Most retarded thing I've heard this year, nice.
How is that? You don't understand how dates work? Chistianity approx 2014 years old, Islam Approx 1400 years old, thats six hundred years. Did the math confuse you?Pretty sure you mean Christianity, not "Chistianity."
How is that? You don't understand how dates work? Chistianity approx 2014 years old, Islam Approx 1400 years old, thats six hundred years. Did the math confuse you?
BUT ULTIMATELY, lets compare Islam to Christianity: Muslims are SIX HUNDRED YEARS behind Christianity in their timeline: It's normal, I think, for a religion to keep having these growing pains, untill hopefully, ultimately, in 2 centuries or so, they will realise how stupid they are being, and about 400 years from now they will have society like the West: Large atheist population, many believers, the few that expound the old ways will be viewed by the vast majority as pretty silly and harmless.
I am kind of concerned about the immediate threat they pose at the moment. And they haven't been non-existent anyway. They are the same horde of mindless killers who have been terrorizing the region for decades. It is just that they now have this free pass in their hands with the Turkish army passivated and government that first supported them and later switched to keeping it on by turning a blind eye. In brief, I believe the hornet's nest doesn't even require poking at this time. The hornets are already at large and raging.You as a Turk are worried about ISIS? In what way do they constitute a threat to you or Turkey? Surely ISIS is no match for the mighty Turkling army and surely ISIS knows that?
You as a Turk are worried about ISIS? In what way do they constitute a threat to you or Turkey? Surely ISIS is no match for the mighty Turkling army and surely ISIS knows that?
You as a Turk are worried about ISIS? In what way do they constitute a threat to you or Turkey? Surely ISIS is no match for the mighty Turkling army and surely ISIS knows that?
You as a Turk are worried about ISIS? In what way do they constitute a threat to you or Turkey? Surely ISIS is no match for the mighty Turkling army and surely ISIS knows that?ISIS apparently has a growing domestic presence in Turkey. That could prove very dangerous for Turkey if ISIS is allowed to spread and conquer Iraq, much of Syria, Jordan.. and they'll get much more support with their success.
Turkey is basically the main line of defence when it comes to holding back the islamic nutjobs from Europe. Not only geographically, but their presence in the overall islamic communities is also quite significant. If it falls somehow to the islamic radicals, the West could easly consider itself fucked. And recent event with the prime minister losing it and banning Youtube and Twitter cuz the internet is evil, proves that they are way more vulnerable to this shit than it appeared at first glance.
I forgot to mention that ISIS has a lot of Turkish sympathizers, so an attack to Turkey isnt such a far scenario, hell, even a a civil war aint
a far scenario as Kirman said. :?
Are you serious Kafein? This shit is happening right on their borders. They'd be retarded not to care. Turkoman and other minorities in Syria and Iraq have already been hit by it.
They should worry, frankly. Especially considering such an influential and sizeable part of their government/military have allied themselves ideologically with the insane Saudi Arabian/Qatari/other rich gulf countries Salafists and Wahhabists who are the source of funds and rhetoric feeding all these terrorists. Reversing everything Ataturk did to move away from religion as a primary factor of identification. The whole thing is a proxy-war for regional supremacy between sunni and shia, and Turkey threw it's weight in with the sunni zealots. The consequences haven't even begun.
This shit is happening right on their borders, exactly. And the Turkish military would crush ISIS with one thumb if it wanted to.Currently. It's a threat because it could escalate to something not so easily crushed, especially if the support within Turkey for ISIS keeps growing. ISIS is, for some reason, extremely popular among the disaffected Sunnis, and there's 1,5 billion Sunnis in the world.
Thing is, Kirman and other Turks sharing his ideas would never ally with Islamist nutjobs in order to kick Erdogan out, because that would defeat the purpose.
Amongst 65 mil Turks, dont u think that some thousands support the ISIS?
Sad. Your current president, George Clooney seems like a really down to earth kinda guy. As far as ive heard.(click to show/hide)
What I dont understand, is why the ASIS are allowing the Jews to murder Palestinians with such ease. They can easily interfere, by sending troops and weapons to the hamas, yet they make empty threats to "free" Istanbul, are they really that dumb?
Also, I daresay that I`m glad that the ISIS are threatening the Turks, since the Turks were the ones who gave money, training AND weapons to those savages, I guess what goes around comes around :lol:
https://twitter.com/shaiba_alhamad/status/498160603739860993/photo/1
Erdogan won with %51 btw. We are so fucked...
Obviously rigged at some point, 51% is bullshit.
You lack one fundamental piece of knowledge about Middle Eastern Islamic terrorists Panos: They will only kill other Muslims, probably because it is far a lot easier than killing the Israeli.
Truth be told, I`d love it if the ISIS cunts decided to attack the jews, give them some of their own medicine :evil:Not sure if you're rooting for ISIS or IDF here? You were anti-Israel in the other thread, so I assumed ISIS at first, but...
Not sure if you're rooting for ISIS or IDF here? You were anti-Israel in the other thread, so I assumed ISIS at first, but...
Truth be told, I`d love it if the ISIS cunts decided to attack the jews, give them some of their own medicine :evil:
also, Erdogan won? For fucks sake, that´s not good at all :( Looks like Gadaffis shaved cousin
We got 18 million voters who didn't go to the ballot box to boycott the election as a protest against the latest über-corrupt local elections. This made it so easy for Erdogan that he didn't even have to fiddle with ballot boxes or steal votes this time.
You lack one fundamental piece of knowledge about Middle Eastern Islamic terrorists Panos: They will only kill other Muslims, probably because it is far a lot easier than killing the Israeli.
damn, and of course nobodys talking about the lack of voting people, but the "great" success of his vote...
I´ll just quote what my grandpa always said: "Even if you don´t know what to choose: go to the vote, because the radicals (meaning the others), they´re always going to vote."
As everyone in the video's comment section pointed out, that guy had English accent. I have seen videos before where women in burka and accompanying bearded apes were carrying out pro-shariah demonstrations in some British town. Put aside the well-mannered people who have managed to blend in and integrate, but I really can't understand why UK is putting up with these primitives. I can't bear to see them here in Turkey (as expected, their numbers have gone up steeply in the last decade), I would more than hate to see them in UK. Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.
there is nowhere to deport
As everyone in the video's comment section pointed out, that guy had English accent. I have seen videos before where women in burka and accompanying bearded apes were carrying out pro-shariah demonstrations in some British town. Put aside the well-mannered people who have managed to blend in and integrate, but I really can't understand why UK is putting up with these primitives. I can't bear to see them here in Turkey (as expected, their numbers have gone up steeply in the last decade), I would more than hate to see them in UK. Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.
Most children aren't complete fools, they abandon their parent's lunacy growing up in an open environment.
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Also I don't think pro-sharia movements are more worrying than "traditional" far right.
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In Islam, taqiyya تقية (alternative spellings taqiyeh, taqiya, taqiyah, tuqyah) is a form of religious dissimulation, or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are at risk of significant persecution.
This practice was emphasized in Shi'a Islam whereby adherents may conceal their religion when they are under threat, persecution, or compulsion. Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi'ites who were usually in minority and under pressure. In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby.
The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence. In the Sunni view, denying faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory"
Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginOh wow, look, Butan being a massive retard. You think Flockula is displaying bigotry there? Please, go to Syria or Iraq. I'm sure ISIS will be very tolerant, and, at most will be satisfied with writing something on the forums.
I can agree to much of what you say Murm. I am very well aware that all is part of the plan. Still, while it may be true that Muslims are being dehumanised, I really can't see Muslims resisting against it. Here in Turkey, we have a group called Anticapitalist Muslims who strongly oppose the cannibalistic acts of radical groups like ISIS. On the other hand, we have a big majority of pro-shariah and pro-conquest neo-Ottoman Muslims.
These are the people who have been stubbornly electing Erdogan, the god of bigotry. They are the people who have wet dreams of conquering middle eastern lands and rebuilding the Ottoman empire. They are mindless zombies and they are as dumb as tree stumps. I don't see them resisting against the efforts to dehumanise Muslims. They are essentially dehumanised themselves. Nobody has to do it for them. Remember the Gezi Park protests. Young people have been slaughtered by the police. They gave the slaughter an applause. They hailed Erdogan the fucktard for explicitly defending the police brutality.
For the last 12 years, our society has been alienated directly through the discourses of Erdogan. We are not one people now. We are atheists, Shia, Kurds, alevites, marginal groups, enemies of state and religion, looters etc. Erdogan kept creating new categories in society day by day and our innocent Muslims back up his nonsensical dictatorial discourses. It may sound like a little bit of an exaggeration to you but to those Muslims anyone who is not walking on the same path as them is now called a terrorists by them.
You are a follower of Atatürk's doctrines? You are a fucking terrorist.
You join anti-government protests? You are a fucking terrorist.
You are not a Sunni Muslim that votes for Erdogan? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't buy the neo-Ottoman bullshit? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't approve of the explicit support the government has been offering to the illicit groups like the former FSA, al-Nusra or the current ISIS? You are a fucking terrorist.
Examples can take pages. I realize all my arguments here are based on Turkey, but this is where my observations take place mainly. We are all aware of the strings being pulled from above. Still I can't bring myself to have faith in Muslims. They are like untamed beasts. That is the sad fact. All it takes is a shepherd to herd them into violence.
there have been people in power making plans for the world for centuries
A typical act of a bigot, dear Butan, is attributing all of his intolerance, prejiduce and emnity to the ones he imposes these bad qualities on. Thing is somebody has to eventually point a finger to the bigot. It doesn't matter if the bigot takes it like an immature kid and tries to revert the argument against you.
Note that I am not trying to pronounce you a bigot just like you are trying to do to me. I am talking about the true bigots I have to face everyday at work, on the street, on public transport etc. etc. But it is true that your little move here is closely reminiscent of their usual behavior. I am sorry but I do have to strongly underline the fact that you have no clue. Seriously, playing the dignified humanitarian citizen with a high intellectual profile doesn't do anyone justice. It doesn't do justice to yourself in the first place. As I said, you just have no clue about the true meaning of bigotry. Try to walk here in my shoes or in the shoes of someone living in the middle east before giving me such bullshit with verses from Wikipedia and stuff.
...
Reading you, its hard to know who's the bigot though.
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Please make sure we do not link James Foley's beheading video on this forum. The Government is shutting down sites that post it. They already shut down Documentingreality and Liveleak.
Eh? Liveleak still up.
They must have got it back up and running or something. Most sites that post it are getting shut down, regardless of where the site is hosted.Not sure if trolling or not. Post some proof that the government is shutting down sites posting it. Because 1), they can't, 2) why would they?
Met issued a warning that it was a terrorist offence to watch that video.
I would think the scariest thing about that video is that the dude delivering the speech sounds like he could be any geezer from round here (accent wise).
Turkey off-topic:(click to show/hide)
When you dont understand the lyric, it sounds like a lot of classic arab music, which are beautiful to the ear.
Not sure if trolling or not. Post some proof that the government is shutting down sites posting it. Because 1), they can't, 2) why would they?
Why would I even attempt to troll about something like this??So there's something vague that DR said on their facebook page, and then there's an article about sites that don't allow graphic content taking down a beheading video? Okay then...
I primarily go to documentingreality for gore and news like this, so I got most of the information from their facebook feed https://www.facebook.com/DocumentingReality
I'm sure I can track down some more info about it, but really, I shouldn't have to. They were warning for about 48 hours prior to shutting down this site, and I'm sure others, that sharing this video was considered a "terrorist act" or some bullshit like that. DR has been down 3 days because of it.
I haven't read through all of this, so I'm not sure what all it says, but it may back up what I've posted: http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/08/21/3473831/ethics-behind-blocking-foley-beheading-video/
So there's something vague that DR said on their facebook page, and then there's an article about sites that don't allow graphic content taking down a beheading video? Okay then...
I'm not going to sit here and argue, I just figured it was worth pointing out. Fuck me for trying to help avoid issues.The victim act is really cute. I hear that bathing in Christian blood helps develop thicker skin.
The victim act is really cute. I hear that bathing in Christian blood helps develop thicker skin.
What? It's the only skincare product I use, I vouch for its effectiveness.
You need to step away from the computer and stop making 15-20 posts a day on this forum.Good, good, you're now on the second stage of the five stages of loss and grief. It'll only get harder from here on out, but there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Good, good, you're now on the second stage of the five stages of loss and grief. It'll only get harder from here on out, but there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Your stats:It's hilarious how butthurt you got when I called you out on your bullshit :lol:
Total Time Spent Online:76 days, 20 hours and 58 minutes.
Wow. Speaks for itself.
It's not bullshit. You saw Documenting Reality's feed for yourself. I just don't appreciate coming to General Off Topic very rarely and being called a troll or shit on simply by trying to post something someone may find useful.You mean you failed at reading comprehension then got super mad because someone called - not even harshly - your dumb-ass out on it. It's not my fault you're retarded, and getting mad at me isn't going to fix it. You'll have to see your doctor for meds.
I take DR's word for gold because it's the only site that I trust to deliver accurate news and its mods to upkeep the integrity of the site. When Chris (the owner) says something happened, I believe him.
You are like the EU version of Smoothrich, a piss poor troll, and a wound up angsty teenager.
You mean you failed at reading comprehension then got super mad because someone called - not even harshly - your dumb-ass out on it. It's not my fault you're retarded, and getting mad at me isn't going to fix it. You'll have to see your doctor for meds.
And no man, YOU are like the AUS version of Smoothrich, a piss poor troll, and a wound up angsty teenager.
From DR's Facebook feed;Yes, way to highlight your reading comprehension fail. Nowhere does it state what you stated in your original post. And hey, I'm just calling it like it is -- you ARE retarded and a dumbass, this being the internet doesn't change that. As for the medication, that's not for the retardation - I'm afraid you're just going to have to live with that - that's for your anger management issues. I can see why you'd get so mad though, I guess. It's not like you don't have to deal with people telling you this daily IRL, now the secret's out online too? Harsh shit, brother, harsh shit.
"Well for the first time in the history of the site, the plug was pulled on the server due to the objection of content. The James Foley video has caused quite a stir and Governments are pulling server plugs.
Working with the powers that be to get the site back online. I guess they are taking the stance that if we hide what's going on, it will all just go away.
Not sure how long they are going to 'punish' me and keep the site unplugged. Yet I will keep this thread updated with progress for anyone that wants to follow along."
And really, Xant? You're going to personally insult me over the internet by calling me a retard and a dumbass? Telling me to get medicated? This post, and nearly every other post you make on this forum just solidifies the fact that you are highly immature and seek no other form of enjoyment than to sit here and make fun of people on the internet and this forum. The most insecure people, are those that take pleasure in tormenting others.
I'm done. You aren't worth the time any more. Keep going, you're almost up to your 15 post-a-day par.
Please make sure we do not link James Foley's beheading video on this forum. The Government is shutting down sites that post it. They already shut down Documentingreality and Liveleak.
My original post:I thought you said you were done with me? Couldn't keep your word for three minutes, eh? Shouldn't you be off writing some nerdy roleplaying shit for Strategus right about now?
From DR's Facebook feed and the comment added thereafter.
"Well for the first time in the history of the site, the plug was pulled on the server due to the objection of content. The James Foley video has caused quite a stir and Governments are pulling server plugs.
Working with the powers that be to get the site back online. I guess they are taking the stance that if we hide what's going on, it will all just go away.
Not sure how long they are going to 'punish' me and keep the site unplugged. Yet I will keep this thread updated with progress for anyone that wants to follow along."
and the comment,
" It seems we are not the only ones. Liveleak pulled the video as well. They claimed that they removed it for moral reasons, yet I'm pretty sure they were getting the same pressure we were getting to remove it from the powers that be."
Though it seems LiveLeak put the video back up, I made the post shortly after seeing these posts. You really need to stop insulting. It detracts from any credibility you have.
I'm not going to sit here and argue,
Please make sure we do not link James Foley's beheading video on this forum.Here's the most important part: if the government is going after sites for the beheading video, they're going after sites that host it. The notion that they'd attempt to shut down every single website, blog, forum, et cetera where it has been posted (read: linked) is absurd. And you have no reason to assume they'd be doing anything of the sort, explored further below..
The Government is shutting down sites that post it.No. The DR facebook feed, which is the sole thing you're basing this whole post on, says that their server got the plug pulled due to objection of content. That's it. Maybe they violated some terms of service with their host with that video. Or maybe it was the big bad gubment that took it down; that's still one, isolated incident. It does NOT mean that the gubment is shutting down sites that post it, and you have zero reason to say that based on the DR feed. And much less to say what you claimed afterwards...
They already shut down Documentingreality and Liveleak.No, they did not. DR feed reported that Liveleak pulled the video. Not that it was shut down. Liveleak has pulled videos in the past without government demands. And again: it was not shut down.
Most sites that post it are getting shut down
regardless of where the site is hosted.More bullshit. All you have to go on is that DR site was shut down, yet suddenly it's "regardless of where the site is hosted." Also, the DR feed mentions GOVERMENTS, not "THE government", as in, the U.S. government somehow having the power to shut down all websites, everywhere.
Time to destroy this thread.
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Time to destroy this thread.
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No. Every victory of Reason (Xant) must be kept accessible to all.
The end is nigh.
Betting nothing happens between now and the next 10 years, deal?
Elite British and US special forces troops are forming a hunter killer unit called Task Force Black – its orders: “Smash the Islamic State.”
The undercover warriors will aim to “cut the head off the snake” by hitting the command structure of the Islamist terror group responsible for a trail of atrocities across Iraq and Syria, reports the Sunday People.
PM David Cameron has told the SAS and UK spy agencies to direct all their •resources at defeating IS after a video of US journalist James Foley being beheaded shocked the world.
British special forces — SAS, special forces aircrews from the RAF and agents from MI5 and MI6 — will work with America’s Delta Force and Seal Team 6. The move sees a rebirth of top secret Task Force Black, which helped defeat al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq.
The operation will be led by America’s CIA spy agency.
One of the first jobs will be to identify the British Muslim shown on an IS video released last week apparently cutting Foley’s head off with a knife.
UK intelligence sources confirmed that the killer, believed to be a British-born Pakistani from London, is already at the top of a CIA “kill list”.
Operations will also be mounted to snatch middle-ranking IS commanders for interrogation by CIA analysts.
Elite British and US special forces troops are forming a hunter killer unit called Task Force Black – its orders: “Smash the Islamic State.”
The undercover warriors will aim to “cut the head off the snake” by hitting the command structure of the Islamist terror group responsible for a trail of atrocities across Iraq and Syria, reports the Sunday People.
PM David Cameron has told the SAS and UK spy agencies to direct all their •resources at defeating IS after a video of US journalist James Foley being beheaded shocked the world.
British special forces — SAS, special forces aircrews from the RAF and agents from MI5 and MI6 — will work with America’s Delta Force and Seal Team 6. The movie(<--- best missread of the day for me...) sees a rebirth of top secret Task Force Black, which helped defeat al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq.
The operation will be led by America’s CIA spy agency.
One of the first jobs will be to identify the British Muslim shown on an IS video released last week apparently cutting Foley’s head off with a knife.
UK intelligence sources confirmed that the killer, believed to be a British-born Pakistani from London, is already at the top of a CIA “kill list”.
This sounds unbelievably romantic. It's almost as if they were paid by movie and video game producers to create a real life Hollywood scenario.
And yeah, the fineness of the video creates a certain extent of doubt as well. I haven't seen such a professional and theatrical recording so far.
https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4 (https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4)
If you want to see some really graphic propaganda from ISIS.
It doesn't mention anything about the knife which is held by the 'evil man in black robes', but I'm quite certain it's not able to cut anything except for butter :PThe knife looks perfectly capable of cutting off a man's head, given enough time. Nothing in that article is heavy evidence that it was faked, quite the opposite. "Oh my lawrd, his clothes weren't dirty." Well whoop-de-doo, maybe he always wears his best black dress when beheading westerners.
If you'd read, that article merely sums up all the points collected from various other articles and youtube videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elodRwk2jVQ&list=UU3xHAfZZqbMMWjc1ed1ajow#t=14
I generally just laugh at conspiracy theorists, as long as it's the usual crap. But when they go one step further and claim that actual victims are "not real" or that some terrible event "never happened" and "is made up" and, basically, shit on the grief of others... That just fills me with rage. Such people are as much scum as, for example, Westboro Baptist Church-shits.
the 'mother' messed up the fact that their 'son' was deceased, referring to him in presentWow, what a fucking big give-away. Either she's an actor, or her son just died and she's not yet completely come to terms with it - oh wait...
*continuation of post from meanwhile in ukraine*
Similar is happening in middle east atm. People who perform the most brutal crimes and monstruosities aren't native muslims who lived there for past 50 years. Nope. Natives are being terrorized by children of those who fled Iraq, Iran, Syria and went to Europe to plea for asylum. Mostly living in ghettos, they are product of western culture, not desert culture as hypocritical western nationalists want to imply. Now they are between 18-30, violent and brutal people who are leading the muslim "uprising". Ironic, isn't it?
If you think this is bullshit, please do some research and find me a muslim terrorist that hasn't been schooled in western schools at some point of his life. People who live in the desert aren't animals, they are survivors. Animals are those muslims who spent their childhood on the streets of London, Paris and Berlin.
*continuation of post from meanwhile in ukraine*I hope you're trolling, because this is just dumb. The best terrorist material come from shitty little villages in the ME, uneducated people are the easiest to fool and turn into suicide bombers. Just look at 9/11 hijackers if you want to see terrorists who weren't schooled in western schools.
Similar is happening in middle east atm. People who perform the most brutal crimes and monstruosities aren't native muslims who lived there for past 50 years. Nope. Natives are being terrorized by children of those who fled Iraq, Iran, Syria and went to Europe to plea for asylum. Mostly living in ghettos, they are product of western culture, not desert culture as hypocritical western nationalists want to imply. Now they are between 18-30, violent and brutal people who are leading the muslim "uprising". Ironic, isn't it?
If you think this is bullshit, please do some research and find me a muslim terrorist that hasn't been schooled in western schools at some point of his life. People who live in the desert aren't animals, they are survivors. Animals are those muslims who spent their childhood on the streets of London, Paris and Berlin.
if you were an authority.
I'm obviously not talking about suicide-bombers and other grunts that are mentally retarded and follow orders because they truly believe in 72 virgins in heaven waiting for them. Those in command, they didn't manifest out of Iraqi desert of came out from Afghani cave.You asked for a "muslim terrorist who hasn't been schooled in western schools." There are plenty. You weren't talking about "those in command" before. That's called moving-the-goalposts fallacy.
Edit: Even grunts don't come just from ME. Bosnia isn't in ME last time I checked and there is ~300 Bosnian citizens that are fighting in Syria and Iraq. One of them blow himself up and his father was celebrating in Bosnia, being immensely "proud" of his son.
You're both right and wrong... people may have different origins and end up together, and others coming from the same place finally confront each other.
The western society is perfectly capable of breeding anti-western agents (with or without local support), as well as eastern countries. The reverse is also true.
For example I am a westerner and I dont believe we have the ultimate political/economical system and that we should extend it to the whole world :P (I am a future terrorist!)
I dont have access to the informations you seem to have to conclude that "every (or just as much) people that do X come from Y". Pinch of salt people.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067123/isis-poll
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Oberyn confirmed for ISIS sympathizer.
might as well be a chart for muslim population
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067123/isis-poll
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I didnt know my country had a 2-5 times bigger muslim population % compared with Germany and England.
If its true, I wonder why most of the european raging comes from there?
Reductio ad absurdum.
Yup, not accurate for muslim population. Prob just part of them, added to that the retarded self-loathing quisling cunts who hate their country and the "west" so much they will support and mislable anything as "anti-imperialist" in their moronic frenzy. Sound familiar?
British jihadists returning from Iraq and Syria will be forced to attend “deradicalisation” programmes to reverse their warped brainwashing, David Cameron announced.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11068878/British-jihadists-to-be-forced-to-attend-deradicalisation-programmes-says-Cameron.html
:lol:
Simple 1 step reprogramming: bullet to the head. I'd settle for barring them from the territory/deportation and dismantling the monetary support networks that funded their little continental jaunts in the first place. But that's probably islamophobia or something. Deradicalisation program, fucking joke. Europe is fucked.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/salafist-muslim-group-forms-sharia-police-patrol-germany-n196421
Every single one of those fuckers should be in jail.
It isn't working and won't work probably because one can't simply cure a fanatic. It is a disease far beyond the reach of modern sciences.
I mean, using Africa as an example of peaceful reconcialitions, are you fucking insane?Yes, he is.
What the fuck. Does even one person think that could work?Those programs aim at people that didnt commit any murder or anything. Its mostly focus on people like woman forced(forced is not best word cos they go volountarly but they are often in a state they cant decide for themselves and are easliy manipulated) to join jihad or guys that had utopia vision of this situation and were super frustrated when they reach syria so they didnt fight/shot and stuff. Cos all people that shot or sth are going to prision often for life sentence so those guys beheading people going for comfortable theraphy sessions is not happening. This deradicalisation is super effective 9/10 people that started this procedure never did any contact with organisations they were in. Many of them start to do lectures for people "at risk" of radicalisation, simmilar how ex-alcoholic people do. Also this theraphy is served in prision enviroment for many years.
[...]Same is true for the bible tho...
Its true that when you get closer to the quran the further you travel away from humanity and god.
Same is true for the bible tho...
Funny how things like the Inquisition and Witch Burnings never happened in the heads of the Islamophobs :P
Just read syrach wisdom chapter in Bible and you will know how to deal with non obeying slaves. Very human, much god.
How so may I ask?http://www.evilbible.com/
It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK. If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself.
Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) There are many more quotes on this topic at my "Do Not Ignore the Old Testament" web page.
And when you point it out people just say oooh but thats the old testament, jesus did this and that...But that makes no sense. The infinite, omnipotent and omniscient God "matures" in a thousand years, the blink of an eye for him?
I remember reading somewhere that Christianity matured as a religion. Crusades, inquisition, intolerance, science suppresion etc were part of the rebelious teenage phase of the past, which Islam being a younger religion, is currently in. Not trying to justify anything, the statement just struck a chord with me i guess.
http://www.evilbible.com/
http://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html
And when you point it out people just say oooh but thats the old testament, jesus did this and that...
I remember reading somewhere that Christianity matured as a religion. Crusades, inquisition, intolerance, science suppresion etc were part of the rebelious teenage phase of the past, which Islam being a younger religion, is currently in. Not trying to justify anything, the statement just struck a chord with me i guess.
Syr 33,26 and 25
Funny how things like the Inquisition and Witch Burnings never happened in the heads of the Islamophobs :P
Huh? I meant the practitioners and the doctrine getting more laid back over time. I dont believe in godHow can the practitioners and doctrine get more laid back if their God doesn't get more laid back? I understand what you're trying to say, but it's silly. Those people don't really believe in God anymore, it's just a belief in belief.
A question one must ask before criticizing these verses is are they commands from god and are they commandments that are to be continued? They are not. All of it is written record of what has happened, much like a history book.No, it's no different from when you said:
what ISIS is now doing is exactly what Mohammad commanded his followers to do. They live by his example.
Those people don't really believe in God anymore, it's just a belief in belief.
I will also carry around that name Islamophobe with pride thank you :mrgreen:
I would rather oppose such a disgusting beast rather than bow like a coward unwilling to question.
And also with the inquisitions and witch hunts and such how bout you search up what the Muslim is doing to Christians and other groups around the world.
they didnt fight/shot and stuff
Its not about "curing" fanatism, its about making people behave and re-integrate society. A totally different story.
Curing fanatism as in making a religious djihadist into a non-violent atheist would be a job for psychiatric hospitals.
Syr 33,26 and 25The book of Sirach is not in what protestants accept as the canonical Bible.
And when you point it out people just say oooh but thats the old testament, jesus did this and that...
How can the practitioners and doctrine get more laid back if their God doesn't get more laid back? I understand what you're trying to say, but it's silly. Those people don't really believe in God anymore, it's just a belief in belief.
No, it's no different from when you said:
You could as easily claim that Christians live by God's example by slaughtering new-born babies.
The book of Sirach is not in what protestants accept as the canonical Bible.
That said, you have to really dearly want to keep up the hippy god of love appearance to be able to read in between the lines of the Old Testament and not notice the clear racism and excessive violence. The god of the Old Testament looks remarkably like any other tribal diety, highly preferential towards the people it got invented by.
I'll be a smart-ass and say that Atheist are more likely to kill their babies than Christians ever will.
Evil people kill babies.
You can't sit on both chairs. You're either choir boy or not.
From what I remember, in the past Church forbid abortions at any cost and in situations like those you mentioned, they had attitude like "god is punishing you for your sins and that's the reason for your and suffering of your unborn and deformed baby, proper thing to do is to endure painful death at birth, both you and your baby". Modern church isn't like that but that's because millions of people put some serious effort to change things.
You do seem like that, based on your posting.
I'll be a smart-ass and say that Atheist are more likely to kill their babies than Christians ever will. But if you had read what I had written you would of noted that God didn't order the killing of babies.Uh, what? How are atheists more likely to kill their babies? And how is that relevant? And God did indeed order the killing of babies, and killed them himself. "So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."
Here are some examples of commands in the Quran to kill the disbeliever.
Enjoy you dirty Kafir
Al Baqarah 2:91 Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, as Fitnah (to create disorder) is more severe than killing. However, do not fight them near Al-Masjid-ul-Harām (the Sacred Mosque in Makkah) unless they fight you there. However, if they fight you (there) you may kill them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=2&Ayah=191&toAyah=191&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9
Al-Maidah 5:35 O you who believe, fear Allah and seek means of nearness to Him, and carry out Jihād in His way, so that you may succeed.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=5&Ayah=35&toAyah=35&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9
At-Tawbah 9:5 So, when the sacred months expire, kill the Mushriks wherever you find them, and catch them and besiege them and sit in ambush for them everywhere. Then, if they repent and establish Salāh and pay Zakāh, leave their way. Surely, Allah is most Forgiving, Very-Merciful.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=9&Ayah=5&toAyah=5&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9
At-Tawbah 9:29 Fight those People of the Book who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, and do not take as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared as unlawful, and do not profess the Faith of Truth; (fight them) until they pay jizyah with their own hands while they are subdued.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=9&Ayah=29&toAyah=29&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9
Actually no the god in the old testament is actually quite harsh to his chosen people. He punished them many times for falling away from worshiping him.Literally the entire Old Testament is full of god ordering genocides because well, these peoples are not Jews, you really need me to look up the verses? You can try as hard as you want, but the Christian god is completely incompatible with any liberal modern ideas.
But Im interested where is this racism you speak of? Verses?
Uh, what? How are atheists more likely to kill their babies? And how is that relevant? And God did indeed order the killing of babies, and killed them himself. "So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."
God literally killed babies, and quite a lot of them too.
Literally the entire Old Testament is full of god ordering genocides because well, these peoples are not Jews, you really need me to look up the verses? You can try as hard as you want, but the Christian god is completely incompatible with any liberal modern ideas.
Uh, what? How are atheists more likely to kill their babies? And how is that relevant?
What are you talking about? How did I in any way "twist your words"? Your justifications are thin. And retarded. God killed BABIES. You're trying to justify the murder of fucking innocent little newborn. And the best part? God is supposed to be omnipotent, yet you make him sound like a petty fucking tribal leader with little power who needs to give ultimatums. That's not how omnipotent beings act. That's not even how humans with real power act.
Dont try to twist words, God didn't order anyone to kill, he did order Moses to deliver Gods warnings to the Pharaoh in which the Pharaoh rejected each and everyone. It wasn't until God gave Egypt its last and worst plague that the Pharaoh agreed to release Moses and his people. And God was pretty slow in deciding to kill of every first born, he gave the Pharaoh ample time to do the right thing by God.
I think God had every right to be severe towards Egypt to save his chosen people from oppression, torture, and death.Again, you're being retarded. What had little babies done to justify their murder? That's some really fucked up sense of justice, "Let's kill their babies to show them what's what!"
Intrinsically, there's nothing small about the ethical problem with slaughtering thousands of innocent first-born male children to convince an unelected Pharaoh to release slaves who logically could have been teleported out of the country.
what ISIS is now doing is exactly what Mohammad commanded his followers to do. They live by his example.
"Intrinsically, there's nothing small about the ethical problem with slaughtering thousands of innocent first-born male children to convince an unelected Pharaoh to release slaves who logically could have been teleported out of the country."
The problem with that is that God has given us free will to do what we want, we get to choose which direction we wish to go. He gave the Pharaoh an ultimatum, release Moses and his people or prepare to receive the plague. I think any normal person who seen what the first nine plagues did would realize Gods 'omnipotence' but the Pharaoh was to proud and up tight to back down.I can't believe there are still people stupid enough to not see all these contradictions you're spewing. Start by learning, and then thinking, about what "God", "free will", "ultimatum", "plague", "omnipotence", "ethics", "right", "disobeying god" mean by themselves and then in context.
But if you want to talk about omnipotent then I think the creator of life in general has the right to end the lives of those who are going against him cause ultimately the Pharaoh and Egypt weren't disobeying Moses they were disobeying god. And it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.
And no Christians no mater what God does in regards to those who disobey are not allowed to murder, it would be hypocritical especially seeing that Jesus commanded the christian to not murder in Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.
Again the major difference between what is written in the quran and the bible is that the quran 'commands' one to wage jihad, where as in the bible there is no command for the followers of Jesus to kill the infidel.
And it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.What. The. Fuck. You're just as fucked up as ISIS.
I can't believe there are still people stupid enough to not see all these contradictions you're spewing. Start by learning, and then thinking, about what "God", "free will", "ultimatum", "plague", "omnipotence", "ethics", "right", "disobeying god" mean by themselves and then in context.
What. The. Fuck. You're just as fucked up as ISIS.
I don't really understand, I cant see any contradictionsI'm not surprised you don't see any contradiction. Feel free to utilize Google, the Internet is full of sources destroying the Bible's logic.
Could you be kind to maybe highlight those contradictions for me :mrgreen:
I'm not surprised you don't see any contradiction. Feel free to utilize Google, the Internet is full of sources destroying the Bible's logic.
I thought so, there is no contradictions in what I wrote. There maybe someone out there that does destroy the bibles logic but it sure ain't you hotshot :mrgreen:Most first graders could destroy the bible's logic. Which is precisely why I'm not interested in doing it. If you can't understand such basic concepts I'd have to start from the basics, and explain them at length, and I'm not interested in doing it for you.
Are you Abay?
A christian Abay, i have officialy seen it all on this forum. And a lion avatar to boot, maybe Abay is really trolling us
Are you Abay?
Most first graders could destroy the bible's logic. Which is precisely why I'm not interested in doing it. If you can't understand such basic concepts I'd have to start from the basics, and explain them at length, and I'm not interested in doing it for you.
I like it when religions are being reviewed and then criticized with real facts. However, I really dislike when people use false facts to criticize religions like the image you just linked. From what I've seen and read, the only ones believing Taqiyya to mean what the image explained it to be, tend to be far-right-winger's. Not Muslims. The little white definition box in the image is not incorrect about deception and lying being allowed under certain circumstances. But it's taken out of context and twisted.
Now if you look up the meaning of the word and use in Islam you find:
It was quite common for Muslims to be persecuted by the Hejazi tribes in Islam's early days. Permitting Muslims that were caught and forced to renounce their faith, gave them the option to lie and escape persecution.
To conclude: I have read alot about criticism of Islam, and never have I seen serious debaters and websites use this argument. Simply because it's a really poor argument and you end up shooting yourself in the foot. If you want to critisize then do it properly. And this isn't a rant against you Chosen1, just trying to clarify 8-)
"commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are at risk of significant persecution."
I still stand by my claim the closer you get to the Quran the further you travel away from humanity and godYep, and same with the Bible.
Yep, and same with the Bible.
He/she has authority= always right: me trust, flying horse, dead men rising, splitting oceans all true. But One ring to rule them all is just a fairytale...
Yep, and same with the Bible.
You're obviously too ignorant to get it.
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I think the difference between lord of the rings and something like the Bible would be that the those stories in the Bible actually happened whereas with LOTR's it is but just a fairy tale.
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And your point?visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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What was your claim though?You just quoted my claim.
You just quoted my claim.
What? Could you write your claim down cause I cant find it :mrgreen:It can be your first lesson in deduction.
It can be your first lesson in deduction.
http://www.evilbible.com/
http://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html
Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.
I think your original claim was just a bunch of random verses you pasted from a crappy website which quotes verses from the bible out of context. So that's your claim?That pretty sums up the same thing you keep doing with the Quran verses... :rolleyes:
That pretty sums up the same thing you keep doing with the Quran verses... :rolleyes:
Then you even claim that the fairytales in the Bible are not fairytales but actually "action reports". :rolleyes:
How did this thread end up with some religious nutjob pissing on it? :cry:
I gonna leave this thread...
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I think your original claim was just a bunch of random verses you pasted from a crappy website which quotes verses from the bible out of context. So that's your claim?No, no it wasn't.
No, no it wasn't.
Answering the massacre that occured in 2 Kings 10:18-27
God ordered Jehu to destroy the house of Ahab, but he does not order Jehu to massacre all the worshipers of Baal.
God was pretty slow in deciding to kill of every first born
I think God had every right to be severe towards Egypt to save his chosen people from oppression, torture, and death.
most of the 'massacres' that took place in the old testament many were not ordered by god. As in the case where God ordered Jehu to destroy the linage of Ahab, Jehu went out of line and massacred the Baal worshipers which god did not order.
And it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.
It doesn't prove much either way. Jews should be the most violent and genocidal of all abrahamic religions by that logic, and it's not even close.
Arguing with someone as retarded as you is pointless. Some juicy bits from your posts:
Your ethics, and the ethics of the Bible, are just as "good" as those of ISIS. You answer to accusations of massacres by saying "oh, yeah, well he did order one but he didn't order the OTHER" and then treat it as an argument won. Not to mention your "oh yeah, well, not ALL of them were innocent babies, necessarily!"
You're a nutcase, and thus debating with you is pointless. You think baby murder is good, and that's your starting point, so obviously nobody's going to convince you the Bible is a horrible source for ethics.
Those quotes say it all; I rest my case.
Answering the massacre that occured in 2 Kings 10:18-27
God ordered Jehu to destroy the house of Ahab, but he does not order Jehu to massacre all the worshipers of Baal.
God was pretty slow in deciding to kill of every first born
most of the 'massacres' that took place in the old testament many were not ordered by god. As in the case where God ordered Jehu to destroy the linage of Ahab, Jehu went out of line and massacred the Baal worshipers which god did not order.
and it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.
Again God didnt order the massacre of all of the Baal worshipers just Ahab and his line.
No, I'm saying that the Talmud and/or the Old Testament is way more violent and inciting to violence than the Koran. Heck, the Koran was inspired by it in many ways. If anything it is more "progressive". So obviously what is actually written in these books of fairy tales must not be that important or influential in the first place.There are other factors.
Its pointless to discuss with a guy whose logic boils down to: Hey guys they could have been in their 20s, 30, 40s then killing them is A-OK, we dont know the age for sure so its all good.Yeah, I gotta love how Christians can keep claiming God is omnipotent, then they miss all the obvious shit an omnipotent being could do to achieve his goal instead of the massively sadistic and cruel ways he does stuff in the Bible.
He didnt massacre everyone, just a specific line of people so chill its not that bad. And my personal favourite: The Pharaoh is a stubborn dude, lets kill increasingly more people because that is easier for an omnipotent being to do instead of freeing the Israelites in any other multitude of omnipotent ways
God literally killed babies, and quite a lot of them too.
Literally the entire Old Testament is full of god ordering genocides because well, these peoples are not Jews, you really need me to look up the verses? You can try as hard as you want, but the Christian god is completely incompatible with any liberal modern ideas.
Its pointless to discuss with a guy whose logic boils down to: Hey guys they could have been in their 20s, 30, 40s then killing them is A-OK, we dont know the age for sure so its all good.
He didnt massacre everyone, just a specific line of people so chill its not that bad. And my personal favourite: The Pharaoh is a stubborn dude, lets kill increasingly more people because that is easier for an omnipotent being to do instead of freeing the Israelites in any other multitude of omnipotent ways
That's great, I hope they will soon free Anders Breivik. Afterall he did not kill every life form on Utoya.
nah, that's not true. You have always to keep in my mind that most of the stuff was written in the babylonian exile and was a way of finding a peoples identity without their own land, 'government' (or similar), rights, etc. They searched for answers why they are in this kind of situation that they were at the time. Many of the explanation attempts are quite modern compared to other literature at the time. Compare the Odyssey with story from Josef for instance. Of course there are many exceptions, but in general the old testament has the basis for many modern liberal ideas.
However I agree that especially every not catholic christian today just makes up his own kind of ethical and moral judgment and then searches for the appropriate backing in the bible. I mean, ask them in what they actually believe you'll get hundreds of answers. Catholics are horrible in it's own way, but at least they have some dogmata to stay true to.
Ahab and his were the guilty party
So your saying that Muhammad, the man who raped butchered and murdered men, women, and children sending many into slavery was more progressive than the prophets of the old testament?
Where are the commands for a christian to go kill an infidel? Ive never heard of any.
So your saying that Muhammad, the man who raped butchered and murdered men, women, and children sending many into slavery was more progressive than the prophets of the old testament?
Where are the commands for a christian to go kill an infidel? Ive never heard of any.
But you have read your bible haven't you?
Read
Matthew 5:17
Followed by
Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Now before saying "out of context" etc.
Can you acknowledge that reading these verses literally in this order seems to say that as a Follower of Christ you should kill all unbelievers?
Are we talking Old Testament? Because there are many. The God of the Talmud as imagined in the book of fairy tales is a fucking bloodthirsty psychopath who personally did much worse than anything Muhammad is reported to have done, not even counting what he "willed" others to do. So yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Are we talking Old Testament? Because there are many.
Religion is a tool used by many with political ambition. To believe that conflict in the Middle-East stems mainly from religion is to be caught in the smokescreen put up by vested interests in the region. Politics, geopolitics, they are the main drivers behind conflicts, whether in South China Sea, Middle-East, East Europe...
Still, the religions are both abrahamic. They're more sililar to each other than any other relgion (barring judaism from which they both sprung).
The history and the context in which they both developed (especially post Renaissance and Enlightenment) is far more important than nitpicking at the content of their holy books.
That thread and this... They were both meant to turn into a blustering soup (no offense anybody; I have been doing my fair share of hurdy gurdying here as well). Not even the politically accountable parties are able put out a fair and meaningful discussion. It is only normal when a lot of people from different age groups, nations and cultures -who are, by the way, here primarily for gaming purposes- arrive at this point.
Also I'm amusicalextremist, I don't pay much attention to lyrics.
Less moronism, more on-topic:
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Charlemagne 9/11'd this thread.
I like it when religions are being reviewed and then criticized with real facts. However, I really dislike when people use false facts to criticize religions like the image you just linked. From what I've seen and read, the only ones believing Taqiyya to mean what the image explained it to be, tend to be far-right-winger's. Not Muslims. The little white definition box in the image is not incorrect about deception and lying being allowed under certain circumstances. But it's taken out of context and twisted.
Now if you look up the meaning of the word and use in Islam you find:
It was quite common for Muslims to be persecuted by the Hejazi tribes in Islam's early days. Permitting Muslims that were caught and forced to renounce their faith, gave them the option to lie and escape persecution.
To conclude: I have read alot about criticism of Islam, and never have I seen serious debaters and websites use this argument. Simply because it's a really poor argument and you end up shooting yourself in the foot. If you want to critisize then do it properly. And this isn't a rant against you Chosen1, just trying to clarify 8-)
I may have yes lol.
Here BASNAK(click to show/hide)
Oh yeah I totally forgot about that story. I heard it many years ago. Can't really remember the circumstances to the murder. I know that Muslims are allowed to lie and decieve in war, but I really doubt it to be in the scale you believe where entire Muslim populations conspire against the West to overtake it by lying.
I'll try and ask around some moozies about this Hadith, and see to what extent they believe Taqiyya and lying can be applied.
Charlemagne 9/11'd this thread.
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There is guys who does the propaganda work, and there is those who fight, I assume.
They have talented people, thats for sure :mrgreen: but I'm not sure their "baiting" will bring good fortune upon them, USA alone can eradicate 90% of their top staff in a few years.
So, this guy had access to top-level secret stuff, is just babbling it out on TV or whatever... and yet somehow none of that stuff has come to pass. Yes, i feel dumber now, thanks. :rolleyes:
I gave up with those brainwashed kids. They need a world easy to understand, with good guys and bad guys. How do you think we sent millions people to death a century ago ?
We know what the Empire is planning in Syria and Ukraine. But what can we really do against it. They can say any bullshit they want, a vast majority of people just don't care and believe TV as long as they have money in the bank and food to eat.
They wouldn't know the truth if it was smashing them in the face. Even when evidence is coming straight from the horses mouth they disregard its credibility.
Murmillus is one of those dull-witted men who continually confuse ardour with insight.
I don't think has anyone posted this "gem" here yet have they? But of course, there's no big plan or agenda or anything.. Right Kafeine, Christo, Xant?.. Dumbfucks. This is what the U.S is capable of in the M.E, and easily capable of in East Europe.
I gave up with those brainwashed kids.
They wouldn't know the truth if it was smashing them in the face.
FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES, 1958–1960
VOLUME XII, NEAR EAST REGION; IRAQ; IRAN; ARABIAN PENINSULA, DOCUMENT 5
STATEMENT BY THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL OF LONG-RANGE U.S. POLICY TOWARD THE NEAR EAST
General Considerations
1. The Near East is of great strategic, political, and economic importance to the Free World. The area contains the greatest petroleum resources in the world and essential facilities for the transit of military forces and Free World commerce. It also contains the Holy Places of the Christian, Jewish, and Moslem worlds and thereby exerts religious and cultural influences affecting people everywhere. The security interests of the United States would be critically endangered if the Near East should fall under Soviet influence or control. The strategic resources are of such importance to the Free World, particularly Western Europe, that it is in the security interest of the United States to make every effort to insure that these resources will be available and will be used for strengthening the Free World. The geographical position of the Near East makes the area a stepping-stone toward the strategic resources of Africa.
2. Current conditions and political trends in the Near East are inimical to Western interests. In the eyes of the majority of Arabs the United States appears to be opposed to the realization of the goals of Arab nationalism. They believe that the United States is seeking to protect its interest in Near East oil by supporting the status quo and opposing political or economic progress, and that the United States is intent upon maneuvering the Arab states into a position in which they will be committed to fight in a World War against the Soviet Union. The USSR, on the other hand, has managed successfully to represent itself to most Arabs as favoring the realization of the goals of Arab nationalism and as being willing to support the Arabs in their efforts to attain those goals without a quid pro quo. Largely as a result of these comparative positions, the prestige of the United States and of the West has declined in the Near East while Soviet influence has greatly increased. The principal points of difficulty which the USSR most successfully exploits are: the Arab-Israeli dispute; Arab aspirations for self-determination and unity; widespread belief that the United States desires to keep the Arab world disunited and is committed to work with “reactionary” elements to that end; the Arab attitude toward the East-West struggle; U.S. support of its Western “colonial” allies; and problems of trade and economic development.
3. The U.S. role in the United Nations and elsewhere in the circumstances surrounding the emergence of the State of Israel, subsequent U.S. official and private economic assistance to Israel, and U.S. political support of Israel, are the primary bases for criticism of the United States in the Arab world. Extremist Arabs call for the extinction of Israel by force, but the containment and isolation of Israel is the general Arab objective, because the fear of Israeli expansionism pervades the Arab world. Israel seeks to establish itself as a permanent entity in the Near East, viable both territorially and economically, in the context of the fulfillment of its self-ordained mission to maintain a sovereign Zionist state, and to “ingather the exiles”, and bringing a majority of the Jews of the world to live in Israel. Since about 1952, the USSR has been a partisan of the Arabs against Israel. In 1950 the United States joined with Britain and France in a Tripartite Declaration to the effect that the three Governments would seek to prevent an arms race in the area and that, should the three Governments find that any of the Near East states was preparing to violate frontiers or armistice lines, the three Governments would, consistent with their obligations as members of the United Nations, immediately take action, both within and outside the United Nations, to prevent such violation.9 The United States has adhered to the principles of that Declaration, but the British and French in fact disavowed it at the time of the Suez invasion. - https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1958-60v12/d5
US policy in the Middle-East is not controversial and a matter for debate for only the most casual of observers.
The key to understanding the policies is not from declared populistic oversimplifications by politicians, but from the National Security Council.
I can recommend Elliot Abrams, a former top National Security Council officer in the Bush White House: http://www.cfr.org/experts/middle-east-israel-human-rights/elliott-abrams/b1567
The overall Grand Strategy remains unchanged from this declassified security council document:
How many of you believe 9/11 was an inside job, and what was it that convinced you of it?
Murmillus is one of those dull-witted men who continually confuse ardour with insight.
Also: Current president and Policy makers are doing a wonderful job of breaking our country right now.
I know many Americans wouldn't give jack shit to Isreal if given the choice, cause no one fucking cares. But then they went and made us care, like the Japs did in '41 and Americans are one of those countries that it's better to let sleep than actually do anything.What have the Palestinian population done to 'make you care'? Israel's main adversaries Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran (and Egypt) had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks (which I guess you're referring to?), in fact many of these were in direct opposition to Osama Bin Laden. According to offical US statements, though no direct evidence has been provided, that operation was carried out by Saudis, US allies. Maybe I misunderstand what you're trying to say.
Also: Current president and Policy makers are doing a wonderful job of breaking our country right now. Sure, Global Hegemony...why don't you guys come to America first before you shout your shit from behind computer screens across the ocean where you can be "safe." How bout you move to China, you'd be perfect there, minus all your conspiratorial shit.
You're one of those dull witted worms whom writes off opposing views and perspectives with cheap words and phrases, without trying to understand those views and perspectives. Tell me Xant, what's your view of world events? A wild jihadi appears, wild jihadi breeds and suddenly shit in the Middle-East? Is that your world view?Red herring.
Why should EU citizens move to either USA or China, or even Russian Federation? European Union is strong enough, rich enough and have enough people to stand on its own. Only thing it doesn't have like other superpowers are large quantity of weapons of mass destruction (nuclear arsenal etc.) Countries were lied by certain people that they should stop investing in nuclear weapons because those huge superpowers will dismantle theirs in no time and world will be one happy, globalized place.
Guess what, that is not happening. Not with Russian aggression towards neighbors while trying to defend their influence in the world. Not with desperate and economically broken USA which tries to circumvent its bad position with pure military force, expanding influence even further.
Europe can't trust you guys anymore, just like they can't trust Russians or Chinese. That is why Europe should fucking wake up from hippie dream and do things like other superpowers do, on their own and in a strict way. Even I, who am fucking dreamer, don't believe in "world peace based on mutual consent" bullshit anymore.
Red herring.
Sure, it's a red herring when coming from me, but your questions, probes and ignorant observations are legitimate? You can't answer a question, I've been answering for numerous pages on these forums in two threads recently, my mind set, view of the world and world events and why, you can't answer what I am capable of answering, all you can do is launch personal attacks and spawn red herring arguments to derail the original topic at hand.Hypocrite, go answer Kafein's questions... oh wait, you can't. :lol:
Hypocrite, go answer Kafein's questions... oh wait, you can't. :lol:
I personally think this article on LL is quite good at revealing how much of the Western mainstream media operate, and also reveals some of the vested interests in warfare.
Titled ."****Syria**** Who’s Paying the Pro-War Pundits?"
I quote the opening line. "Talking heads like former General Jack Keane are all over the news media fanning fears of ISIS. Shouldn’t the public know about their links to Pentagon contractors?"
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef6_1410640202
Prison-Industrial System
So, crips and bloods building tanks?
Greeks have absolutly no interest to keep Euro currency
See Xant, that's a true red herring.Still incapable of answering Kafein? And demanding others to answer your questions? Keep on being a retard, bro :lol:
This is a lie. I remember watching some documentary (I can look it up for you) where they asked a lot of Greeks whether they should keep the Euro or go back to their old currency because of the financial crisis and not a single one wants to revert back to the old currency.
Still incapable of answering Kafein? And demanding others to answer your questions? Keep on being a retard, bro :lol:
Documentaries/reports very often use "selective editing" to show only those they want to portray as "the opinion". I wouldnt trust them more than I trust polls, which I dont trust at all.
You accuse me of placing red herrings, when its you whom uses that strategy the most, and you call me a hypocrite? Hypocrite.I didn't accuse you of anything, retard, but I'm not surprised you think so, being incapable of understanding half the things that are said.
On the report you speak of, no.
On controversial journalistic methods, yes, proof=google's 10.000's examples.
My comment is made not to refute your point, just to remind that its not a solid one.
You're smarter than that BASNAK :D no journalism is objective, all are advocating a certain truth or showcasing their own opinion on a matter.
I would need actual video and publisher to give opinion on the data you collected.
What does 2 million dollars per day from oil fields and a bunch of fanatic footmen give you when you don't have the planes/AA and just get your faces bombed? Must be fun for ISIS right now.
Garrison up in urban areas, reduce highly visible and vulnerable convoys in open desert, dial down the militant populist activism and begin developing more sophisticated intelligence networks/concealment of maneuver and strategy.
Strategic bombing works great on cocky humvees blaring islamo-rap and doing donuts in open terrain, but air raids will very quickly be rendered ineffective when you have battle-hardened saddam-era NCO's commanding fanatic infantry grunts to defend every urban block in dozens of major cities across Syria and Iraq. That's when you need a disciplined, dedicated army to fight in brutal house to house combat to liberate a city. No one is stepping up to this, so there's barely a point to any bombing, unless we want to create a horrible humanitarian crisis by years of bombing out all civilian infrastructure, legitimizing ISIS or worse in opposition.
Garrison up in urban areas, reduce highly visible and vulnerable convoys in open desert, dial down the militant populist activism and begin developing more sophisticated intelligence networks/concealment of maneuver and strategy.The reason ISIS was/is such a threat is because they were/are a conventional army -- with tanks and missile trucks etc. Without those, they're reduced to just rabble.
Strategic bombing works great on cocky humvees blaring islamo-rap and doing donuts in open terrain, but air raids will very quickly be rendered ineffective when you have battle-hardened saddam-era NCO's commanding fanatic infantry grunts to defend every urban block in dozens of major cities across Syria and Iraq. That's when you need a disciplined, dedicated army to fight in brutal house to house combat to liberate a city. No one is stepping up to this, so there's barely a point to any bombing, unless we want to create a horrible humanitarian crisis by years of bombing out all civilian infrastructure, legitimizing ISIS or worse in opposition.
In the end they only had to put 2 rounds out of about 50 through the cardboard tube of a roll of duct tape...literally, that was the "PASS" standard set by the NIATP (CMATT, Vinnell, whoever). It may have been improved later, but I am certain once the Iraqis took over training...it went back to Enshalla Standards. Good God the number of morons I argued with who swore they were experts in the old Iraqi Army and killed 100's of Iranians, yet could not hit a target even once at 100 meters out of a few hundred rounds!
The reason ISIS was/is such a threat is because they were/are a conventional army -- with tanks and missile trucks etc. Without those, they're reduced to just rabble.
Damn that's intelligent and insightful. I'm sure destroying their conventional forces and blitzing to their political HQ and putting a USA flag on it will end this war before Christmas and usher in an era of peace and democracy.No, you're wrong. It won't end any wars and it won't usher in an era of peace and democracy, but it will destroy the threat. Try harder with your straw man fallacies.
No, you're wrong. It won't end any wars and it won't usher in an era of peace and democracy, but it will destroy the threat. Try harder with your straw man fallacies.
You think we should genocide all Sunnis in Iraq, to end the threat? Threat to who, anyways? You know ISIS is basically Assad and Turkey's ally, with close economic and strategic ties? And that Iran and Iraqi Shi'ites have marginalized Sunni political representation and regularly engage in ethnic cleansing by militias, driving many people to embrace ISIS as a lesser of two evils?When did I ever even imply killing off all Sunnis in Iraq? Are you drunk again, like in that video?
And that we've been fighting the same people for ten years already, doing nothing but creating the instability that allowed a group like ISIS to become what it is today?
Its just very difficult to see what the fucking point is here. Unless you are cheerleading for Americans to go back and occupy half of Iraq?
Why don't you volunteer yourself to be frontline infantry in the Iraqi army, if you believe its just. We'd love to see your live posting while actually fighting a war.
The best way to ruin a protest isn't to beat up the protesters. Be clever.
I really hope this shit backfires on Erdogan and he gets beheaded.
Yeah, I know. One can dream though..
He bought himself a plane :lol:
I'm not thinking to use a stick or something. I just wanted to show how equality works in my country. If you supoort ISIS you get nothing. But if you protest AKP-ISIS you get beaten/arrested
Ah, how surprising, and where would he escape?
Do you even understand English? I don't think you comprehended what was said there.
Clear
"We are building a coalition to show to arabs/muslims that arabs allies reject ISIS", "but these allies funded them !"And then there was a reply to that, to which the officer had no reply to.... seriously, your bias is amazing.
The ISIS leaders are actually eliminated, and replace by Chinese and caucasians. The islamic revolution will be removed toward Caucase and China (Uigurs) to destabilize Russia and China.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Their mission in Irak (remove Al Maliki, too close from China and Iran) is over. We don't need them anymore in the area.
The ISIS leaders are actually eliminated, and replace by Chinese and caucasians. The islamic revolution will be removed toward Caucase and China (Uigurs) to destabilize Russia and China.I don't even
Their mission in Irak (remove Al Maliki, too close from China and Iran) is over. We don't need them anymore in the area.
The ISIS leaders are actually eliminated, and replace by Chinese and caucasians. The islamic revolution will be removed toward Caucase and China (Uigurs) to destabilize Russia and China.
Their mission in Irak (remove Al Maliki, too close from China and Iran) is over. We don't need them anymore in the area.
Actually, they are :
41% Saoudis
19% Lybians
8% Syrians
But, someone like Tarkhan Batirashvili, a Georgian, is actually known as Abou Omar al-Shishani, one of the most important leader of ISIS. Many Tunisians leaders have been recently executed.
New ISIS fighters now come (via Turkey) from China, Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan.
It's not so difficult to change their battlefield. A lot of them came from Libya. And they could easily move toward central Asia.
Ok, If i believe this then...
Is totally off base. (Basic math, that's 68% middle east) Doesn't that disprove your very notion of caucasian/chinese. Also, Kazaksthan is an Islamic state to begin with anyway.
How can you all resist not to downvote Tovis bullshit? I mean, I know it doesn't help but it seems still more sensible than answering to him. I guess most wise would be to do neither...When you start reading it as some kind of comical satire and just completely not take him serious in any way, he actually becomes quite amusing in his own little twisted way.
The ISIS leaders are actually eliminated, and replace by Chinese and caucasians. The islamic revolution will be removed toward Caucase and China (Uigurs) to destabilize Russia and China.
Their mission in Irak (remove Al Maliki, too close from China and Iran) is over. We don't need them anymore in the area.
This is the actual situation. But I'm talking of the future of Daech, or whatever its name will be. You can count Chechens too, Kurds and some Europeans. But the new leadership seems aiming Central Asia.Well, where are the sources, Tovi? Where do you get your percentages from? Where do you get your "ISIS Leaders are eliminated" from? Let's see your sources that are more trustworthy than MSM. Come on, Tovi. If you can't show your sources, then you yourself must realize what you say has no more weight than if I said "USA is led by Jesus Christ himself, and 46.2% of Americans are High Elves."
In that kind of "army", basic grunts are not important, you just have to control (more or less) their leaders.
The percentages come from... the US army. They seized files at Sinjar in Irak (close to Mosul).Did you even read that document? visitors can't see pics , please register or login
You can check these files at West Point site or here : http://tarpley.net/docs/CTCForeignFighter.19.Dec07.pdf
These files are a bit outdated. That's why they do not count part of central Asian fighters recently arrived.
This war is mainly a conflict between Saudi Arabia/Qatar against Syria/Iran. Syria and Irak are the battlefield.
nvm
No,the files shows that the Daesh troops were mainly libyans and saudis. They are probably still a majority. But the leadership is changing.
I'm ashamed cause of Erdogan and his AKP. They are going discuss about military operation on Iraq and Syria in parliament. At the begining they support ISIS with guns/supplies and now thinking about sending ground units against ISIS. They will just sit and watch... We really need a civil uprising but not a peacefull one this time.
I'm ashamed cause of Erdogan and his AKP. They are going discuss about military operation on Iraq and Syria in parliament. At the begining they support ISIS with guns/supplies and now thinking about sending ground units against ISIS. They will just sit and watch... We really need a civil uprising but not a peacefull one this time.
Well they accepted it in parliament today. We will see what happens in a few days. They might send us(college students) to army, cause the only thing they can't control or fight is our ideas. It's probably the best idea to get rid of us. But i'm thinking too imaginary... Anyway some of my friends will join to army for their military service soon. What a shithole...
You're never happy do you? Few days ago you posted that your gov was too friendly with ISIS, now they declare war and join coalition, complete 180°, and I dont think they did it to kill off all their younger population in the fights.
I would %100 support if they didn't give guns/supplies to ISIS. But now it if they send ground units, their blood will be in Erdgoan's hand. Think about a government killing his own army. It's probably the best opportunity for them. Of course AKP supporters will be safe at their home and gettin richer. For example; Erdogan's son didn't do his military service and became a huge businessman today.
True Butan, we are never happy, because nothing ever follows a route that ends in peace.
If they actually cleanse the jihadists, that will probably end in Kurds claiming our Eastern lands (because we couldn't even protect our borders or citizens within and around the borders, remember?).
Turkey is one of the few non-artificial states in the Middle East. If it gets disintegrated like that, years of further dissolution surely awaits (so screw any do-gooder freedom cries like "give them the land they deserve brah" in advance).
Why would going on the attack against ISIS automatically mean Turkey lose its eastern lands? To me it sounds more logical that if they have military means to invade, they have military means to control their own territory. If they attack others knowing they wont be able to defend their own, thats bad decision making.
I understand that kurds are a special case, and I even heard that they had a lot of external military support and made some independant moves, but I still not see why attacking ISIS prompts this problem?
It has been the discussion for quite a long time Butan. Never before in history could one simply step up and blabber about separating Turkey roughly in half and claiming one of the halves. It is now being discussed everywhere. On TV, on the papers, on the streets. Simply everywhere. Not to mention creating a Kurdish state in the Middle East is a wet dream to USA.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-islamic-state-opens-its-first-consulate-in-turkeys-capital-issuing-visas-to-foreign-fighters/5405811
The ISIL Takfiri terrorists have purportedly opened a consulate in Turkey and use it to issue visas for those who want to join the fight against the Syrian and Iraqi governments.
The Turkish daily Aydinlik said in a recent report that the consulate was founded in the Cankaya district of the capital Ankara.
The militants are said to be operating freely inside the country without much problem.
Other reports said the members of the Takfiri group have rented luxurious houses in the upscale neighborhood of the capital and Istanbul and use them for residence or as offices.
The terrorists are said to be using minibuses with black windows to get around the city.
The ISIL Takfiri terrorists currently control parts of Syria and Iraq. They have threatened all communities, including Shias, Sunnis, Kurds, Christians, Izadi Kurds and others, as they continue their atrocities in Iraq.
Senior Iraqi officials have blamed Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and some Persian Gulf Arab states for the growing terrorism in their country.
The terrorist group has links with Saudi intelligence and is believed to be indirectly supported by the Israeli regime.
The United States started conducting airstrikes on the ISIL only after US interests were threatened by the militants.
NT/AS/MHB
If I got this right Turkland wants a joint offensive on Kobane while other countries are waiting for Turkland to make the ground offensive :rolleyes:
There was something in the news a few days ago about a hostage and prisoner exchange between ISIS and Turkey. Maybe Turkey is still in the process of trying to free (translation: buy back) other hostages so that's part of the reason why they're not taking action?
Turkish warplanes have bombed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) targets near the country’s border with Iraq. The strikes highlight rising tensions in Turkey over Ankara’s perceived unwillingness to aid besieged Kurdish fighters in the Syrian town of Kobani.
The Turkish General Staff dispatched F-16 and F-4 jets to the southeastern village of Daglica in Hakkari province on Monday, the Turkish daily Hurriyet reports.
The daily says the airstrikes caused “heavy damage” to the PKK.
The PKK's military wing, however, said in a statement on its website that its forces had not suffered casualties during the strikes, Reuters reports.
Turkey says the bombings came in response to three days of attacks on the Daglıca military guard post with rocket-propelled grenades and heavy machine guns. PKK insurgents for their part blamed the Turkish military of violating the ceasefire.
Monday’s strikes were the first to be conducted since the Kurdish rebel group declared a ceasefire with Turkey in March 2013.
The incident underlines simmering anger among Kurds in southeastern Turkey over Ankara’s failure to intervene against so-called Islamic State (IS) militants, who launched a massive offensive on the predominately Kurdish town of Kobani – not far from Syria’s border with Turkey – on September 16.
At least 35 people were killed throughout Turkey’s Kurdish majority south-eastern provinces last week after protests against Ankara’s inaction descended into violent street clashes.
Abdullah Ocalan, the jailed leader of PKK, has threatened to call off peace talks to end nearly three decades of insurgency if Ankara does not act by Wednesday.
Meanwhile, a "symbolic" amount of military supplies sent from Iraqi Kurdistan to Syrian Kurds is stuck in Syria’s northeast after Turkey refused to open an aid corridor, German daily Deutsche Welle cites Syrian Kurdish official Alan Othman as saying on Tuesday.
"It is a symbolic shipment that has remained in the Jazeera canton," Othman said, using the Kurdish name for northeastern Syria.
On Monday, Turkish officials denied a previous announcement by the Obama administration that Ankara had authorized US fighter jets to use the Incirlik Airbase as a launching point to conduct bombing campaigns against IS (Islamic State) militants.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that any military operations conducted from its territory should be done with an aim of removing Syrian president Bashar Assad from power.
Earlier this month, Erdogan said that IS and the PKK are equally worthy of contempt in the eyes of Turkey.
"It is wrong to consider them [IS and PKK] in different ways,” Erdogan said. “We need to handle them all together on a common ground."
Turkish warplanes... F-16 and F-4 :lol:And ??
why did you vote for erdogan?
We didn't. Lots of fanatic idiots did. And I'll also have you know that Kurds, lots of them, voted or at least have been strongly supporting him. All for the sake of his so-called "reconciliation process", which is only one of his endless lies. But tell that to the Kurds and their political representatives. They have the power and numbers to change things in Turkey, yet they used and continue to use that to crush the secular and democratic structure of our country.
Just look at what happened at the end of the Kobane demonstrations. Police kills some 35 Kurds on the streets. They were enraged but ended up withdrawing and keeping their mouths shut. Why? Reconciliation of course. They will supposedly get a chunk of land for themselves, remember? Why oppose the power? Why even bother fighting against Erdogan together? Those idiots. They always manage to shatter my sympathy into pieces even when it does not seem remotely possible.
Have you ever heard about something like "moderate nazee" ?
That's why a lot of people (especially in France) refused to have Turkey in Europe. Erdogan is an islamist. Our pro-EU propaganda said "moderated islamist" :rolleyes:, but who can believe that ? Have you ever heard about something like "moderate nazee" ?
Good one.
According to Snowden files, Al Bagdadhi has been jailed at Guantanamo for 4 or 5 years. There, he has been selected (amongst other islamists) to be the future leader of Daech. One of the main criterion was his huge Ego (Heir of the Prophet...) He has been released after a fake escape (probably), he received money and logistic to access to the leadership of Al Qaeda in Syria and then created ISIS.
The leader of the operation is McCain. Wich was himself victim of a mind-control experience in jail, during Vietnam war.
According to Xant, a majority of ISIS militants are mentaly retarded.It's science, Tovi, it's according to research, not me.
Around Kobane : Daech seems to use many tanks in the battle.
NATO forces, who destroyed entire armies of Serbia, Libya and Iraq (2 times) in a couple of weeks, seems unable to destroy a handful of tanks ? I can understand for infantry, but tanks ? In the desert ? What a joke.
Because NATO is not fighting
(click to show/hide)
This is exactly what I tried to explain. Maybe my english is not good enough.What's there to explain?
If only your english wasn't good enough.
We only accept English as a common language due to an Anglo-saxon plot to control the world.
Gotta love it when educated Anglo-saxons defect to ISIS out of disgust with their own nationsEducated Anglo-saxons such as?
To pull that off, you need good propaganda. The polar opposite of retarded.
Educated Anglo-saxons such as?
I'll let you wonder about that one.So, as predicted. Your fantasies don't count.
So, as predicted. Your fantasies don't count.
Can't be any better than your fantasies of painting middle eastern countries as being filled with the inbred. Even your source has a pro west slantFantasies? Again, it's research and I provided a source, so it's hardly my fantasy. As for "pro west slant", that means absolutely nothing at all and is just a cheap attempt at discrediting the source while offering no actual argument.
Fantasies? Again, it's research and I provided a source, so it's hardly my fantasy. As for "pro west slant", that means absolutely nothing at all and is just a cheap attempt at discrediting the source while offering no actual argument.
How widely have you traveled the Middle East? I'm guessing you've never been there. Lots of people who have spent the majority of their adulthood in said place can also attest to the massive amount of inbreeding and genetic diseases.
Look inwards to your own country before you go around spreading BS.I accept your admission of running out of arguments.
I accept your admission of running out of arguments.
I too found the study on consanguinity quite out of context. Ok, its true, so?First of all, the way these Arab fanatic groups are organized (or, as it happens, not organized) being a stupid inbred is not a disadvantage. On the contrary. It's also not a direct path to religious fanaticism, but it sure helps. It's easier to sell it to a retard than to an educated, intelligent person -- obviously.
I dont think people with down syndrome and other important genetical defects are capable of handling war, even just soldieering, and being a stupid inbred is not a direct path to religious fanatism. As lombardsoup implied "without sources" (:lol:) joining ISIS #1 reason is probably not poor intellect, but you can keep believing that if that saves you some brain cells.
First of all, the way these Arab fanatic groups are organized (or, as it happens, not organized) being a stupid inbred is not a disadvantage. On the contrary. It's also not a direct path to religious fanaticism, but it sure helps. It's easier to sell it to a retard than to an educated, intelligent person -- obviously.
The #1 reason for anyone joining ISIS is, in-deed, poor intellect. What else could it be? They have no hope of success, they're a fanatical religious organization (and believing in that crap takes a person with limitations on either their intellectual capacity or intellectual honesty, or if you're a real winner, both), many of their acts are plain stupid, the list goes on.
What legit reason could there be for joining ISIS that didn't come to be as a direct result of poor intellect?
While killing westerners over their corruption isn't exactly sane, there is a silver lining. ISIS wouldn't exist had the US/EU not fucked around in the middle east for 10+ years. Never ending occupation has a way of pissing off the indigenous population.Yes, the Middle East was such a peaceful place before US came and fucked everything up.
Yes, the Middle East was such a peaceful place before US came and fucked everything up.
You know, without the sarcasm your comment is correct.
HAHAHAHAHA yeah you're an ignorant cunt. Where are you from?
Is it really the fault of the "west" that there's still blatant slavery, caste systems and religiously inspired backwards savagery all over the middle east?
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
Is it because of the west that most muslims favour theocratic idiocy, from women in a subordinate position to their husbands to death for apostasy? So tired of you moronic fucking apologists, shitting all over the west and enlightenment ideals. Do you understand that the muslim world is actively hostile to progressive ideals? That they are extremely socially conservative on every single metric? They have more in common with the the farthest of right-wing christian nationalists. In fact, they have more respect for "people of the book" than the bundle of sticks lefties that defend them endlessly with the shield of "islamophobia". The same naive idiots whining about their homegrown reactionaries suddenly lose all sense of rationality when it's applied to "foreign" mores, despite how much more extremist they are.
First of all, the way these Arab fanatic groups are organized (or, as it happens, not organized) being a stupid inbred is not a disadvantage. On the contrary. It's also not a direct path to religious fanaticism, but it sure helps. It's easier to sell it to a retard than to an educated, intelligent person -- obviously.
The #1 reason for anyone joining ISIS is, in-deed, poor intellect. What else could it be? They have no hope of success, they're a fanatical religious organization (and believing in that crap takes a person with limitations on either their intellectual capacity or intellectual honesty, or if you're a real winner, both), many of their acts are plain stupid, the list goes on.
What legit reason could there be for joining ISIS that didn't come to be as a direct result of poor intellect?
The enlightened west needs a decade or two to finish multiple wars? They're not taking it seriously.
That's because they're not "wars". Not in the same sense that WW2 was a total war. The "west" could depopulate the entire area in a few days if the population was bloodthirsty enough to back it politically. In terms of military technology we're so far ahead it's a joke. The only modern military capabilities these countries have is through arms exports from actual developped countries. This wasn't Pakistan or Iran.
Afghanistan and Iraq...the neo-cons really did think they could turn these backwards ass sheepfucking assholes into progressive democratic countries tolerant of their minorities through simple force. They were obviously wrong, as so many people could've told them (and did), and the countries predictably imploded into tribal ethnic cleansing. The "wars" were never about sole military success. The US fucked over Saddam's army in record time. It was a fucking cake-walk. But the US army wasn't designed for occupation and nation-building, which was their objective. And there was no political will to be as horribly repressive as the tribal strongmen that dominated these areas. If the americans had acted even a quarter as intolerant and violent as Saddam they would've had the whole muslims world crying crocodile tears and accusing them of being evil crusaders, not to mention europe calling them out on their hypocrisy.
You'd be surprised. A lot of the people that joined AQ years ago were well-educated middle/upper class. Bin Laden himself, for example. He wasn't exactly some raging retard who grew up in a slum. The ideology is a lot more pernicious than simply retard bait.Figurative retards are included in my definition of "poor intellect."
Anyways, just look at the post-modern cryptomarxist nonsense so many firstworld "educated" elites swallow so easily. You don't have to be a literal retard to believe in utopian feelgood nonsense. Just a figurative one.
Figurative retards are included in my definition of "poor intellect."
Couldn't just go home after killing Saddam. Years and years of the winning hearts and minds crap ensued.
I understand where you're coming from. I've also read the Koran and understand its hateful BS. In fact, the only reason I troll westerners is under the vain hope they understand the threat they face from Muslims.(click to show/hide)
Stating the obvious
The West is partly (fully ?) responsible of the situation in the ME. Who destroyed the Ottoman Empire ? Who destroyed secular states like Iraq, Syria and Libya ? Who placed a king in Iran instead of a democrat ? Who helped the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt ?Who support reactionary Islam states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar ? Who supported Talibans in Afghanistan ?The Middle East is wholly to blame for every bad thing in the West. Who invaded Spain???
The West is partly (fully ?) responsible of the situation in the ME. Who destroyed the Ottoman Empire ? Who destroyed secular states like Iraq, Syria and Libya ? Who placed a king in Iran instead of a democrat ? Who helped the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt ?Who support reactionary Islam states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar ? Who supported Talibans in Afghanistan ?
And the biggest question: why is there a serious discussion on the middle east on a forum for a mod for a video game?Why not?
Why not?
The Ottoman Empire? Are you seriously trying to say that it was some benevolent state as opposed to a ruthlessly expansionistic caliphate?
...
Creating borders with no consideration for people living inside will automatically lead to war inside and outside the country. It's exactly the same problem in Africa.Then it's easier to control them and to sell weapons to both sides. French and British are experts in that game.
Bash Tovi as much as you want. But there is a lot of truth in that above statement.
Bash Tovi as much as you want. But there is a lot of truth in that above statement.
Ahmed Darwi, former Egypt parliament candidate, died after joining IS, allegedly after blowing himself up in Iraq. Apparently went through Turkey and Syria to get there.
edit: his bros confirmed the recent death.
Not exactly the dumb inbred Muslim terrorist stereotype.
Seems more like the dumb inbred parliament candidate stereotype. :D
For a collection of independent countries, western Europe and former Commonwealth, sure do act like an homogeneous entity. Funny thing is that they project the image of: their opinion = world opinion which is far from the truth, because world is much bigger than western Europe + UK + USA + Canada + Australia.
A period discussion would be more in line with what the game is about. Modern day? No point aside from trolling western sympathizersNo one forces you or anyone else to participate. It's entirely voluntary, and surprisingly this game is played by people. Which is to say that it's ridiculous to draw boundaries like that, as if all cRPG players were capable of is playing cRPG and talking about cRPG, nothing else. People are people, whether they're on "Let's Discuss Politics" forums or Super Mario forums.
Ahmed Darwi, former Egypt parliament candidate, died after joining IS, allegedly after blowing himself up in Iraq. Apparently went through Turkey and Syria to get there.Really? How so? What kind of feats of intelligence does it take to be a parliament candidate in Egypt?
edit: his bros confirmed the recent death.
Not exactly the dumb inbred Muslim terrorist stereotype.
No one forces you or anyone else to participate. It's entirely voluntary, and surprisingly this game is played by people. Which is to say that it's ridiculous to draw boundaries like that, as if all cRPG players were capable of is playing cRPG and talking about cRPG, nothing else. People are people, whether they're on "Let's Discuss Politics" forums or Super Mario forums.
Really? How so? What kind of feats of intelligence does it take to be a parliament candidate in Egypt?
And who are you exactlyYour father, Luke.
Bash Tovi as much as you want. But there is a lot of truth in that above statement.
Until he proves that the French and British drew arbitrary borders for the purpose of destabilization, that's just empty conjecture like everything else Tovi ever types.
Ottoman empire has its own responsability for joining europeans war. But the new borders were just stupids. That what is claimed, today, by ISIS. So the Sykes-Picot borders are a western responsability. Including the withdrawal of a Kurdistan.
And I don't even speak about Jordania and Israel wich were both promised the same land by the British Empire.
Also, we know it was not just a mistake. Creating borders with no consideration for people living inside will automatically lead to war inside and outside the country. It's exactly the same problem in Africa.Then it's easier to control them and to sell weapons to both sides. French and British are experts in that game.
The fact that you actually consider that the borders were drawn up in some nefarious scheme to keep those regions in eternal war with the added benefit of selling them arms is completely absurd.
They didn't know what they were doing, or more to the point, they did not realize their mistakes likely because they were misguided by the white man's burden, not because of some new world order conspiracy nonsense.
Gerrymandering simply does not equate.
Not because your are stupid, political leaders are too. They knew exactly what they were doing. Not for a "global empire" , but for their own empire (France and UK mainly). It's not a conspiracy, it's History, just read books and try to get some culture.
Selling weapons was not the main goal. Control of the economy or strategic places, are the main goals.
Also, we know it was not just a mistake. Creating borders with no consideration for people living inside will automatically lead to war inside and outside the country.
Then it's easier to control them and to sell weapons to both sides. French and British are experts in that game.
In Iraq for exemple. At this time, oil was mainly in Kuwait, and Arabs were in Iraq (few oil was discovered). So they created a little country easier to control : Kuwait
(in fact this country was created by the brit empire many years before oil usage, for commercial reason, but confirmed at the end of Ottoman empire).
A lot of african borders were drawn in consideration of the transportation lines, to deliver goods to a port.
The goal was to control the economy of these countries.
Not because your are stupid, political leaders are too. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Selling weapons was not the main goal. Control of the economy or strategic places, are the main goals.
Tovi's bullshit per post ratio is a staggering 100%. Not only that, but he's kept it up for years. Not an easy feat.
Obviously not. Where is the contradiction ?
About Kuwait : It was an artificial state created by the UK to control the navigation toward India. Then Ottoman empire invaded it. After its fall, they tried to rebuild this country for oil reasons. They could have just created a single state, because Kuwait was under Bassorah administration. But in both cases it was a western creation. Times change but western Imperialism is still the same.
To sell weapons was not a major goal at the begining. But it became more important during Cold War.
During XIX century, coal mines control was important; during XX century it was oil etc.
You can't just sit and watch Middle East burning without admitting that Europe and USA have a huge responsability. And that's a reason why they hate us so much in this area.
If you know he's a BS poster why do you keep responding?I wasn't responding to him, dimwit. Notice how I said "Tovi's", not "your"?
I wasn't responding to him, dimwit. Notice how I said "Tovi's", not "your"?
1. Lol, k.
2. People do whatever to make money. There is nothing "wrong" there, it's simple human nature. If I had 10k planks of wood and 1 place would buy it all for 10,000 and then another would buy it for 50,000 I'll sell to the higher price.
3. Majority of Middle east fought itself for a long, long time. Due to Globalization, the middle east seems to be more destabilized from outside sources, but all that has happened is nothing but what Islamic Countries have been doing for centuries. Oh, and FYI, The ARABS revolted from Ottoman Rule with British Help.
Only Syria, Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq were the countries whose borders were drawn after the war. The majority of the old Ottoman Empire was long since lost before World War I.
Yes, the Middle East was such a peaceful place before US came and fucked everything up.
Oh wait.
If not ISIS, then there'd be some other just as fucked-up group there now. Always has been (since they killed off their smart people a couple thousand years ago), always will be, until the US stops waging war where the ROE is decided by what Joe Average thinks is proper.
..The worst air operation of History.
About air strikes : Almost 4 000 missions for only 350 enemy casualties. The worst air operation of History.
Could be they aim for caches and factories.
Where do you get that number?
http://www.french.alahednews.com.lb/essaydetails.php?eid=13125&cid=324#.VEq8imeGy5-
From his butt.
Figuratively
Implying they have the logistics to sustain 100-150k fighting men
The source he linked to is an opinion piece with neither of those numbers.
Reputable news sources list the number of terrorists killed in Syria alone at over 500 since airstrikes began in September and we've been bombing IS in Iraq since early August as well.
I don't know where he found the 350 number but I'm guessing it was just made up. The coalition has done somewhere over 632 air strikes in Iraq and Syria at this point and closer to 7k sorties (which includes intel flights, refueling, etc). The cost of all the bombs and fuels doesn't matter, the countries involved can afford it.
Here's links to actual news sources for those numbers:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/more-than-1700-bombs-dropped-war-isil-2014102422611131883.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/23/kobani-death-us-air-strikes-550-isis-syria
And that they can deal with attrition in desertic regions... Must be like 4-5k max supply in summer!
I realize it wasn't evident from my post but I wrote that to emphasize that you're right, in a funny way.
Attrition% per month must be 15-ish. And ISIS as a whole don't even war weariness.
Wow, that was... bad. It's like the humor was masterminded by a six year old.
ayy lmao
Wow, that was... bad. It's like the humor was masterminded by a six year old.
The lyrics were too straightforward and could've used a rewrite by a Professional Songwriter/Comedian like myself, but the presentation was great. Fake jihadists air guitaring on ak-47's as your people are fighting a war of survival with little international support against a group like ISIS? Yeah its dark and funny, and a testament to Kurdish courage and culture to do parody crap like that when things like the Daily Show of Egypt are being shut down despite huge ratings because of "anti islamic/government beliefs"
But you must realize that Xant is finnish, and they are about as funny as Finland is relevant to history.
It's sounds better when he talks about himself... :DIf by people you mean you, I think we all agree by now. That video, as 99.99999% of your videos, doesn't prove what you think it proves. You have zero logical reasoning skills.
As I say : there is no conspiracy. People are just too stupids.
I hope the United States puts boots on the ground and deals with these guys. Probably won't happen unless they manage to do something to shock the voting masses, i.e. a terror attack in the US.
I hope the United States puts boots on the ground and deals with these guys. Probably won't happen unless they manage to do something to shock the voting masses, i.e. a terror attack in the US.
Another attack on US soil won't do anything to rouse the public. For example, a few weeks after the 2013 Boston bombings, people just went back to their usual routines. The sheer apathy from the general population is astounding.
That is wrong, muricans wanted Czechslovakia to be nuked. :lol:
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lol
I hope the United States puts boots on the ground and deals with these guys. Probably won't happen unless they manage to do something to shock the voting masses, i.e. a terror attack in the US.
Another attack on US soil won't do anything to rouse the public. For example, a few weeks after the 2013 Boston bombings, people just went back to their usual routines. The sheer apathy from the general population is astounding.I had no idea the Boston bombers were doing the bidding of a terrorist organization with their own country.
Ooooh, I hope too. Do you have pop corn ?Wow, still being completely retarded. Way to go, Tovi, you truly don't understand anything you see.(click to show/hide)
I had no idea the Boston bombers were doing the bidding of a terrorist organization with their own country.
You missed the whole point. Even with a current 2014 event like Peter Kassig getting his effing head cut off by IS, it still won't jar them. We're 5 western beheadings in with minimal outrage from the west.I had no idea Peter Kassig got executed in the US.
I had no idea Peter Kassig got executed in the US.
Bad day at work Xant?No, just bored of your retardation. Your grasp of logic is the worst I've seen on these forums, apart from Tovi.
No, just bored of your retardation. Your grasp of logic is the worst I've seen on these forums, apart from Tovi.
Any reason in particular you have to lash out at anyone that makes the slightest deviation or shitpost?
Takin it too srs mane
he lashes out at people who make sincere on-topic posts tooWHAT? When have I ever lashed out at you, you retarded- I mean, fuck YOU BUDDY
its xant
Ottoman Empire was imperialist too (as Japan, China or whatever). I don't try to blame western countries only. But, personaly, I don't think that Imperialism is a good thing for the majority of Humanity.
Suruc explosion: At least 27 killed in Turkey border blast (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33593615)
Suruc explosion: At least 27 killed in Turkey border blast (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33593615)
Watch MHP put the blame on PKK somehow.
The turks there were just commie bastard kurd lovers anyways. Or so I'm told. It's ethnic overlayed with political, as it usually is.
The turks there were just commie bastard kurd lovers anyways. Or so I'm told. It's ethnic overlayed with political, as it usually is.
Here is the aftermath video (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a5_1437387095) They were supposedly there to assist with the rebuilding work in Kobane. Young people, what a waste. Was it a suicide bomber or whats the latest info
It's a joy going around turkish forums and youtube comments. Apparently they were all a bunch of kurdish communist scum who deserved death. And it's payback for PKK terrorism. How would this be used as a reason for war when the people it's supposed to galvanize are totally ok with it? A lot of turks don't even see it as an attack on themselves. Because it wasn't.
And of course the usual it's a zionist conspiracy arguement, because it's just soooo unbelievable that an islamic fanatic could ever do such a thing. It must've been a CIA/Mossad operation, designed to make muslims look bad and foment chaos in Turkey.
http://news.yahoo.com/two-police-killed-attack-turkey-close-syria-border-082804539.html
Gj PKK, perfect timing, this will definitely be beneficial all around, fucking retards.
http://news.yahoo.com/two-police-killed-attack-turkey-close-syria-border-082804539.html
Gj PKK, perfect timing, this will definitely be beneficial all around, fucking retards.
Haha how ominous. RIP Kurdistan.
In other news, ever since the fall of Tell Abyad Erdogan has started making noises that a kurdish controlled area on the turkish southern border with Syria would absolutely not be tolerated. As opposed to the ISIS controlled one through which the vast majority of their recruits from Europe had been going through until now, along with other war materiel.
BRICS recently made a competitor IMF type world bank. Maybe they want to invite Turkey?
ISIS outlived it usefulness.
Now glorious Eagles with stripes punish them and in process of it bring freedom to oppressed people of Syria.
All this Turkey bombing of ISIS is probably prelude to full scale invasion of Syria by US and pack of butt licking also allies.
Also some News media said that Assad does not give his entire chemical arsenal to destruction.
Soon CIA will find that he has ballistic missiles ready to hit London within two ours.
Not so original? Who cares..
peoples do not remember what happened yesterday not to mention what happened more than decade ago.
So another nation screwed up by enlightenment, truth and love :(
It's sad to see kurds winning on the ground but being completely ignored and cut out of all negotiations. It really doesn't bode well.
Turkey expands bombing raids to PKK targets in Iraq
PM's office says jets bombed Kurdish targets in northern Iraq, hours after planes pounded ISIL positions in Syria.
Turkey, US to create ‘ISIL-free zone’ inside Syria
Piok surely visited Assad's Syria and its nice places for political prisoners with permanently lit 5x5m cells for 100 people each, permanent air conditioning on 10C and a thick swarm of mosquitoes.
Piok surely visited Assad's Syria and its nice places for political prisoners with permanently lit 5x5m cells for 100 people each, permanent air conditioning on 10C and a thick swarm of mosquitoes.Assad could be called dictator thats true and political prisoners are not nice.
No offense Kafein, but reading what you write here, it looks more like you have visited Syria yourself. When it comes to politics, everybody has his own right to a different opinion. There is no telling who is biased, opinionated or falsely led. Surely some statements will look like they have been shot fresh out of one's ass instead of a base of knowledge. That doesn't necessarily mean they are totally false or ignorable.
Also Assad regime was far more democratic then gulf states ones and also far more tolerant :shock:
Prison should be prison.
It is form of punishment and must look uncomfortable.
Unlike our Eurohotels which could scare only polite and humble citizens not criminals or even economical migrants.
Oh well, I wanted to say something (that was taken verbatim from a refugee by the way) and Piok seemed to be a decent receiver. Case in point:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/turkey-extends-bombing-campaign-pkk-targets-iraq-isil-150724212302167.htmlTurkey bombing both isis and kurds, they found the best way to have a stabilised border is to have a desert as a border?
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-us-to-create-isil-free-zone-inside-syria.aspx?pageID=238&nID=85906&NewsCatID=510
Welp, Turkey's def moving in. Prob not long until they start targetting kurdish positions inside Syria as well. I'd like to think the US won't leave their erstwhile "allies" hanging, but seems likely.
Assad remaining in power is a roadblock to a lot of nations intervening directly to stop the bloodshed over there.The roadblock is more what happened in Libya and Irak, it is hard to stabilize a country and it costs a lot. No one wants to pay for it. And you can bomb as much as you want, as long as no strong organised governement is in place, new warlords will be filling the empty space.
Turkey bombing both isis and kurds, they found the best way to have a stabilised border is to have a desert as a border?
İstanbul.Fuck you, buddy, I thought my screen was dirty because of your weird I.
Guess I will become an ever more secluded hermit from now on as if I weren't already.
Kurds + Greeks + Armenian coalition super mega alliance confirmed. GG Constantinople.
That is the reason why Turkey and USA go hand in hand. Both imperialistic, fake nations that first stole territory then murdered the people who occupied "their" land originally.
At least Turkey and America are civilized and bring stability to their regions.
And Slavic tribes or whatever you identify with didn't do the exact same thing when settling? Only difference is the Southern Slavs never stopped murdering each other to form a lasting united powerful nation in the first place. At least Turkey and America are civilized and bring stability to their regions. The worst thing that ever happened to the Balkan states was their independence.
Kurds +GreeksGreturalban + Armenian coalition super mega alliance confirmed. GG Constantinople.
It always make me laugh when I see ideologically left-wing americans blindly praise countries where the cultural norm is far more conservative and chauvinistic then even the tribalistic, religious rednecks they are familiar with in their own country.
Israel didn't even exist until 67 years ago, is the size of New Jersey, surrounded by enemies that have regularly tried to invade, conquer, and genocide the Jews.. yet they are world leaders in science and technology, embrace LGBT rights, democracy, freedom of religion, etc etc..When arabs israeli don't have the same access to job and housing, women don't have the right to divorce their husband. Plus if according to Israel, the state of Palestine doesn't exist, half the habitant of the land are denied the right to democracy or if any rights at all. Judaism religion of state. Yeah truly the most liberal, secular and democratic country!
Wow how lucky I am to never have stumbled upon a smoothrich post before?! You're truly the greatest delusional fucker I've ever seen.
Turkey and USA bringing stability to the world??? Aren't they the ones who made Syria and Irak stable regime fall part?
When arabs israeli don't have the same access to job and housing, women don't have the right to divorce their husband. Plus if according to Israel, the state of Palestine doesn't exist, half the habitant of the land are denied the right to democracy or if any rights at all. Judaism religion of state. Yeah truly the most liberal, secular and democratic country!
...
Turkey and USA bringing stability to the world??? Aren't they the ones who made Syria and Irak stable regime fall part?
...
That is the reason why Turkey and USA go hand in hand. Both imperialistic, fake nations that first stole territory then murdered the people who occupied "their" land originally.
I can already picture Oberyn going "You are a vessel for your genes to be transmitted. Life is a genetic struggle." with some copious amount of added insults for style.Do not forget the part where he ironically says something like "Nations are just an artificial construct and have nothing to do with your culture! No, you fucking leftist social..."
"Their"
Topkek. Turks are living in Anatolia for more than one fucking thousand years. Before them was Byzantine, Seleucids, Alexander, Achaemenids, Lydians, Hittites, Assyrians and before them, was just fucking Neolithic. Nothing but darkness. And before neolithic, there were just mother nature.
So, who occupied what ?
Grow up, kid. Nationalism and racism are old trends. You all got the homeland concept wrong. Home is where your heart is. Home is your mother, home is your family. Home is the streets where you were playing 20 years ago. Home is your friends, home is the girl who you love. Home is where your memory is. Home is your childhood, your future. Not the worthless piece of land.
And yes, i could die or kill for those if it's necessary to keep them alive. I accept that. But not for worthless fucking piece of earth, ideology, or flag.
You're a human being dumbass, your time is limited. Being a part of any nationality and cursing all others won't make it any longer. Live it with joy and love instead of retardness.
And join Krems.
i like turtles
Being part of an extended, collective tribal group is absolutely about making your life and the life of your loved ones longer. You've been living in collective peace and prosperity for so long you can't even recognize how that "worthless" flag, land or ideologies or any other tribal marker is the reason for it. Look at the big picture for one second, instead of drowning your critical thinking in emotional cliches and navel-gazing at your own existence as if it was completely divorced from the whole of history that came before it, the whole of history that is happening right now before your eyes.We are the only part of the world where tribalism is extinct and we are the only part of the world that is stable and prosperous. Africa is where tribalism is the strongest and it's the most unstable place, notably because democracy is not functioning properly when people vote for their clan instead of voting for the best plan. No correlation?
Selfish hedonist with laughable arguements, filled with naive idiocy. Zero surprise that you are in Krems. I wish I could say you were just a dumb kid, but even adults like Molly are fucking stupid enough to share your hilariously unrealistic point of view, so you're probably just another brainwashed idiot.
Parasitic leech and proud of it, the motto for the future of western civilization. Don't worry, I'm sure european countries will never, ever again be put into a situation where collective identity beyond immediate family and friends will matter. War and conflict and tribal identities are a thing of the past, after all. What possible use could we have for them? There is nothing but the Long Peace, and obviously it will persist forever.
We are the only part of the world where tribalism is extinct and we are the only part of the world that is stable and prosperous. Africa is where tribalism is the strongest and it's the most unstable place, notably because democracy is not functioning properly when people vote for their clan instead of voting for the best plan. No correlation?
The only time when european's peace is troubled is when some people are too attached to their identity (aka both jiihadist and white-supremacist).
You blame Turks for whiping out their minority but say that tribalism is good... wtf?? Wasn't tribalism precisely the cause of the wipe out?
But yeah praise tribalism, it just bring so much good! Better go back in time when each european nation was fighting against it's neighbor cause you know our nation is worth more.
Don't you come from the Balkans? You understand what balkanization means, yes? There's absolutely no benefit to cultural and ethnic homogeneity. Take the word of the guy who comes from an area that has become a byword for constant, unending, inter-ethnic conflict. What a beautiful example of multiculturalism in action. Why, I'm sure if we just eradicate the dominant identities in western european countries, replacing them with a "salad bowl" of segregated cultures, nothing similar at all will happen. Hasn't been happening for decades now.
I find your fascination with japanese stuff particularly ironic, incidentally, given your stance on patriotism. Oh hey, look, a stable prosperous country not attempting to kill it's own culture and replace it's own people. Must be a mirage, because clearly the only thing that has made Europe one of the wealthiest and most politically stable areas on the planet is an ideology developped in the 1960's/70's, the birthdate of Europe. Absolutely nothing else had any effect at all.
Tribalism is not extinct. The only way you can "kill" any sort of tribalism is by replacing it with another. Despite the best efforts of the postmodern cultural relativists, I'd say people who think like you still represent less than half of the european natives. Most of the governments and elites maybe, persons like Kaffein who have nothing but contempt for their own people, but the people themselves actually have to deal with the fallout, not hide in their fenced off mansions and rich neighborhoods where they will never personally experience any drawbacks from what is nothing but a moral and intellectual quandary in their eyes.
The forms of tribalism that are being slowly "killed" in Europe are entirely determined by a cultural relativism that cuts only one way. If the double standards weren't so blatantly obvious, if Europe lived in a vacuum detached from the rest of the planet, without the millions of foreigners immigrating to Europe every year, plus the millions of so-called "refugees", outbreeding the natives by a large margin, bringing their own tribal identities that are absolutely not subject to the same attempts at eradication, if we held these foreign identities to the same standards we hold our own (i.e they must be obliterated for the greater good) then I would agree with you that it is not a problem. That's not the case. You may eventually learn that casting off your ethnic, cultural, tribal identity doesn't really mean much if the people you are doing it for don't also do the same. In fact they are encouraged to do the exact opposite.
I don't "blame" the turks, no more than I blame the assyrians, or the greeks, or the persians, or etc. I simply recognize that the only reason that they exist today as an identifiable ethnic identity is because of that tribalism. We wouldn't be talking of turks, or french, or germans, or any other present day ethnicity if their ancestors hadn't sacrificed themselves by the thousands, by the millions, like "dumb monkeys", so that their idiot descendents could look down their noses at them as if they were nothing more than backwards subhumans, so inferior to our own noble, modern values. You say tribalism is extinct in Europe. It clearly isn't yet, but that's what you and people like you look forward to. Are you truly naive enough to think once you destroy the french identity, and the german identity, and etc, even the as-yet non-existent european identity, aborted before it was even fully born, strangled in the craddle by idiots like you, that nothing else will take it's place?
Asians are continuous.
I like to imagine sometimes the numbers currently mass-emigrating to Europe being made up of young female Japanese, instead of young Arab and African men. How different it would be both in manner and in reception.Young female Japanese? Not gonna happen, mate.
The Japanese society is one of the most homogeneous at home, btw.
Young female Japanese? Not gonna happen, mate.
Thanks to all their closed borders, the demographic age of Japanese is raising so quickly, give it another couple of decades and there are no young Japanese left at all.
Their struggle is real.
You may eventually learn that casting off your ethnic, cultural, tribal identity doesn't really mean much if the people you are doing it for don't also do the same. In fact they are encouraged to do the exact opposite.It is indeed pointless to destroy tribalism in Europe if we import it from other countries, reason why immigration should be regulated and the immigrants should learn to respect other beliefs and traditions.
What?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Japan
Demographic trends can be quickly reversed by population politics, and has been throughout history, the last two centuries included. Give families economic and perhaps ideological incentives to have more children and the native population can rise dramatically within one generation, especially in a rich industrialized nation like Japan (or Germany).Politics won't do anything tho cuz whatever a working proper political solution would be, it's gonna cost money.
Instead of importing a work force from poorer countries that may in general have a lower level of education, or by importing unskilled labourers hoping to integrate and educate them (usually takes a few generations, the most recent numbers from Denmark says half of all non-western immigrants even in the third generation are still unemployed and lives on state welfare, despite free college and universities here), and if from a not very compatible culture may lead to ethnic-based friction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Japan
https://www.bostonfed.org/economic/conf/conf46/conf46k.pdf
tl;dr:
More deaths than births.
Everything costs money. Importing foreign workers cost money. Recently looked at how much the money the 2015 mass-immigration is going to cost Denmark and Germany and it's quite a lot, even the optimistic projections. Germany's entire surplus growth last year, or something like that. Under 1% of GDP, but it's still a lot of money and a similar amount could be used for example to make it more viable for German couples to reproduce.Without mentioning that stealing the work force of third world countries won't help them to develop either. It's a lose-lose situation.
Despite the cost, incentivizing women to have more children have historically been a sound investment. Russia and China is doing it right now, most of Europe did it after the war, Iran did it after the Iran-Iraq war (the amount of young people is why we are having the current very positive secular, democratic development in Iran). It's usually a faster, more effective and safer way compared to importing a work force, especially from the developing world.
The creation of ethnically homogeneous nation states in Central and Eastern Europe[28] was presented as the key reason for the official decisions of the Potsdam and previous Allied conferences as well as the resulting expulsionshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%9350%29
Compare that
I am aware of demographic problems in Japan, "my what?" was referred to closed borders.You're always gonna be non-Japanese for the Japanese, no matter how long you live in Japan... not even allowed to stay if not qualified and part of the workforce, far from being equally respected. I'd call that nationalistic.
If by nationalistic and traditional approach you mean an alarming percentage of young (30+yo) japanese men and women never even had physical contact with the person of opposite _(or same) sex and aren't even interested in doing so because they are pursuing careers in corporations and refuse to bring up children because they are a burden (sounds quite western to me), rather than great living standard, great healthcare and great food than ok.
You're always gonna be non-German for the Germans, no matter how long you live in Germany... not even allowed to stay if not qualified and part of the workforce, far from being equally respected. I'd call that nationalistic.
Work ethics and the within laying mindset "Well-being of the cooperation being more important than the well-being of a single worker" is the traditional factor in the equation.
Both leading to a decline of the general population due to various results of the two above.
At least that's what two German forum warriors pointed out when talking to them. But what do they know, right?
Maybe their healthy sense of humour was the reason why they wanted them out of glorious Deutschland.
Makes no sense at all, our history is so different, we had no civil war then, no religious conflict like that, Islam so different, WWI + II, no fanatics running around chopping heads of your family members, endless list...Huh? But that's the point Angantyr is making? Yes, they're fighting among themselves, have fanatics chopping off heads, Islam is different, etc., etc... and? Germans and Japanese managed to rebuild, stronger than ever. Arabs and Africans didn't/haven't. Because of the way they act and their beliefs. I'm not even sure where the disconnect is, here. It's like if after your teacher says "you failed your tests" you'd say "well, yes, I failed all the tests in school, but I only failed them because I got all the answers wrong!" Quite.
Ffs berenger y u do dis?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Japan
https://www.bostonfed.org/economic/conf/conf46/conf46k.pdf
tl;dr:
More deaths than births.
?
Watch your language Oberyn. Next time a big donation might not get you unbanned.
Who are you to judge Kafein his lifestyle? Why are you trying for years on end to impose you copy/paste intellect onto others? Do you feel that the world evolves around you, or that your views are superior to others? If only you coul self-reflect for a moment.. and see you act exactly like the people you been talking about for months. Its as if wikipedia is the "quran" to you.
Kafein is love. kafein is life
Btw, do you know about leech therapy? you know that they literally suck the disease out of its host right? They are pretty amazing.
Germans and Japanese managed to rebuild, stronger than ever. Arabs and Africans didn't/haven't. Because of the way they act and their beliefs.
Well, I don't think it is because of the way they act and their beliefs but because of their history and the preconditions after destruction are fundamentally different. So different that it just doesn't make any sense to compare.Their "history" and "preconditions" are what they are because of the way they act and their beliefs.
Of course I think my views are superior to the ones of the people I insult. I know this may be hard for you to understand, drenched in meaningless relativism as you are, but no, not all views and perspectives are all as equally valid to one another, all worthy of the same respect and consideration.
What have I copy-pasted from wikipedia, exactly? Could you show me some examples of me holding up wikipedia as the end all, be all of knowledge? I've mostly linked to articles and other sources whenever I link anything to make a point.
But that's an interesting perspective, I do actually think the whole of wikipedia is, by far, a vastly more valuable source of knowledge and facts than the whole of the Quran, or the Bible, or the Talmud, or any other delusional fantasy created more than a thousand years ago by people who barely understood the reality of the world around them. Only a fucking idiot, or a muslim, could think otherwise.
Lesham knows best cuz he was in Austria for a week!
Their "history" and "preconditions" are what they are because of the way they act and their beliefs.
Wiki has problems mostly on current day political and social controversies, largely because of the byzantine bureaucracy being weak to infiltration by special interest groups pushing their views as "mainstream", but compared to the editing and peer review that documents like the Quran or the Bible were subject to (i.e, none, or by theocratic dictators and their lackeys), it is the essence of impartiality and objectivity. And that's ignoring the large, large portions of wiki that are edited by professionals that are on the top of their field, especially when it comes to science. Of course the social "science" subjects are a mess of conflicting propaganda and interests, that has more to do with social "sciences" itself than wikipedia. Let me put it like this, if you were somehow stranded on a desert island, or sent back in time 4000 years ago, which compedium of knowledge do you think would be most useful to you? The whole of wikipedia or a fucking Bible?
When you look at it in the big picture, the way people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years, it absolutely is weird.What does that have to do with anything? Why would Kafein care about how people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years?
Granted, given the zeitgeist in western european countries, encouraging the extinction of their own people, it isn't. So much anti-child propaganda in media, having a child is awful, it destroys your life, you won't ever achieve anything and have to sacrifice any ambition just because they exist, it's a thankless, fruitless task, it's so expensive and you need to be at least upper middle class before ever considering it, it's endless. Particularly aimed towards women.Or maybe he just doesn't want to have a kid. It really is a big commitment.
Just saying it perfectly explains this standoffish, bizzare philosophy of being completely cut off from every other factor except your own existence. Who cares about the future, just people you genuinely don't care about once you're gone after all.It's not bizarre, it's actually the most logical stance -- seeing as it's true.
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Its really wierd that a few posts ago you claimed that your claims arent based on morals and that your strenght in debating here was the sole basis of pure logic. And now you are here claiming the complete opposite. The whole "children make my existence matter" and "serving tribal unity makes your life count" are fully moral questions and extremely debatable ones at that.
You don't have children and don't plan on ever having any, is what I take away from this. It's the only way this ridiculously individualistic perspective makes any sense, in a "rational" way. Have you ever heard the expression "no man is an island"?
Their "history" and "preconditions" are what they are because of the way they act and their beliefs.
Collective suicide by rationality, so beautiful. Truly we are the pinacle of human endeavour and intellectualism. You should just slit your wrists right now, the only reason you are living is because of these icky, irrational animal instincts. There is no "rational" reason why you should cling to life. Die now or die decades in the future, what is the difference? I only wish your parents had been as incredibly intelligent. People like you are, well, the exact opposite of an evolutionary advantage. And then you ask me what I mean by sick, twisted, hedonistic individualism? You are literally a degenerate example of homo sapiens, not in a figurative sense, in the biological sense, and proud of it.
The thing is Leshma, you're delusional enough to think arab countries could somehow prevail in a war over the current "empires", as you put it. What is happening isn't a war. No other people in existence have ever so blatantly, stupidly, wilfully attempted to eradicate themselves and their cultures in the face of obvious invasion by other people so clearly hostile to them.
It absolutely isn't look good for Europe, between the cancerous nihilists passively accepting their own collective destructionEveryone dies. Everyone gets "destructed." Why care about what happens after you die? You won't be there to see or experience it. It literally won't matter to you.
an evolutionary addaptive trait developped over hundreds of thousands of yearsSomething being an evolutionary adaptive trait developed over hundreds of thousands of years means nothing at all. The blind idiot god programming something through trial-and-error that helped a species survive has no bearing on what an individual should do today. You seem to have this weird god worship of evolution, as if everything produced by it is somehow not only the best thing ever but also supremely moral.
No worries, I'm sure absolute individualism and (selective) destruction of tribal identities will lead to peace and prosperity for all.Who has even claimed that?
You seem to have this weird god worship of evolution, as if everything produced by it is somehow not only the best thing ever but also supremely moral.
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Not even the combined power of a chill pill and Snickers was enough to stop the fury of the unstoppable Oberyn.
For people so "rational" and "logical" you apparently can't add one plus one, or see how one of these things is the obvious conclusion of the other.
Not these delusions of being some sort of "new men" completely divorced from everything that came before.
Guess which ones will exist into the future?
Eastern euro's just haven't been subject to the same endless brain washing I suppose.
Your dumb shit hyperindividualistic philosophy will collapse under it's own nihilistic weight and will be replaced by something more fit to the reality of human nature.So what?
My jeans can fuck themselves tonight.
Let those hyperftfynihilisticrational defeatists play their part as one of the 72 virgins in afterlife while we spread our genes like we are supposed to, Oberyn. Be fruitful and multiply, bitches.
Let those hyper nihilistic defeatists play their part as one of the 72 virgins in afterlife while we spread our genes like we are supposed to, Oberyn. Be fruitful and multiply, bitches.
Let those hyper nihilistic defeatists play their part as one of the 72 virgins in afterlife while we spread our genes like we are supposed to, Oberyn. Be fruitful and multiply, bitches.
If Xant goes blue on blue on Oberyn then I can as well fraternize with the big O in compensation.
And every single person here is talking my language. I am so super scared about my culture being eradicated lol.
Let those hyper nihilistic defeatists play their part as one of the 72 virgins in afterlife while we spread our genes like we are supposed to, Oberyn. Be fruitful and multiply, bitches.I like your attitude.
I do kinda. Arrogant and dickish, fo' sure.
That... was... mean :(
Right now, you must feel like an American.
I do kinda. Arrogant and dickish, fo' sure.
Well, that too. But I was specifically thinking about ignorance. Have you never heard an American taking pride in a fact that whole world speaks his language and therefore there's no need for him to learn any foreign language? I sure did. Baffles me when people are proud of their ignorance and lack of education.
You absolutely don't understand what I'm trying to say here. If an entire group of people stop caring about the survival of their group on the long term, these individuals are not actually affected by that. That's the extent of what I'm saying. What if in a century Sharia law is applied everywhere in Europe? I'll be dead. It only matters to me in the extent that I have irrational empathy towards animals according to their genetic similarity with me, even those I imagine far in the future. I'm not offended when you tell me how the world works, I know very well how the world works. I simply don't see any actual, rational motive to care about "my people" being replaced sometime in the future. The same reasoning applies to virtually anything really. My goal in life is not to be an instrument of some greater enterprise, whatever it may be. So what if everybody had the same line of reasoning? Well, obviously not everybody had that line of reasoning. It's not even a question worth asking.
You do have blond hair and blues eyes, right?
rational
fraternize with the big O
.
Shitty logic, accounting for no variables and failed extrapolation can prove any flawed point you want.
Rational, (logical, reasoned, judicious, shrewd, intelligent, sensible, cogent) as in if you wish to effect an outcome you take appropriate steps to foster that outcome and resist steps that are counter to that outcome. It is immaterial whether the outcome affects you personally or not if your objective is to ensure Enlightenment values persist. You asked for a rationale of why you should care if Sharia law was imposed after your death, there it is. The preservation of a better system and better values than the alternative. Who says you can't leave a legacy for the future, even if you don't have children?
No one says or said you can't. What Kafein has asked is why should he care. You, and Oberyn, are begging the question. You're working under the assumption that X is desirable and superior without explaining why, when the whole point Kafein (and I) is making is that X is meaningless after death. So your argument looks something like this: "You don't care about X? You say it doesn't matter? If everyone thought like that, X would be destroyed! X would be gone! If you did Y, then X would survive, even if you had no children!" It's a big string of "yes, and?'s" for someone arguing Kafein's position.
Rational, (logical, reasoned, judicious, shrewd, intelligent, sensible, cogent) as in if you wish to effect an outcome you take appropriate steps to foster that outcome and resist steps that are counter to that outcome. It is immaterial whether the outcome affects you personally or not if your objective is to ensure Enlightenment values persist. You asked for a rationale of why you should care if Sharia law was imposed after your death, there it is. The preservation of a better system and better values than the alternative. Who says you can't leave a legacy for the future, even if you don't have children?
gone from the Universe, not asleep, not watching from afar with pride, but NON-EXISTENT. Your ideas will be dead, your thoughts will be dead, your ideals will be dead. It doesn't matter one iota to the dead "you" what happens after the event. There won't be a "you" to care.
JambiXant change your profile pic to this
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Isn't the rationale of every living being to maximize happiness?
Don't think so, otherwise we would all be heroin addicts by now.
Don't think so, otherwise we would all be heroin addicts by now.
Don't think so, otherwise we would all be heroin addicts by now.Being a heroin addict isn't most people's definition of happiness, Leshma.
that would be so awesome! Just chilling in a Matrix-like tube, filled with heroine goo, while machines are automatically maintaining the hardware. A perpetual state of an awe inspiring joy - no worries, no sense of time or mortality, no doubts, no suffering, etc.
unfortunately, we haven't reached the technological level capable of such a miracle...
what a bliss it would be!
Hardly achievable in practice in any case, due to a simple fact that most people desire to compete, and rather suffer, as long as one suffers less than others. In other words, a total equality of a wonderful heroine-goo would be simply unacceptable for many, as it deprives them of a possibility to dominate.
No one says or said you can't. What Kafein has asked is why should he care. You, and Oberyn, are begging the question. You're working under the assumption that X is desirable and superior without explaining why, when the whole point Kafein (and I) is making is that X is meaningless after death. So your argument looks something like this: "You don't care about X? You say it doesn't matter? If everyone thought like that, X would be destroyed! X would be gone! If you did Y, then X would survive, even if you had no children!" It's a big string of "yes, and?'s" for someone arguing Kafein's position.
Even if Kafein believes Enlightenment values are the best thing since sliced bread, that only matters while he's alive. What happens to Enlightenment values has no effect on him after he dies. He won't even know whether they're successful or not. Human progression, likewise. It's just mental masturbation in the present day, it'll mean nothing after you die, and frankly, it looks like flailing against the inevitable: that you'll be gone. So you try to come up with a continuity that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, "oh, I may die, but the Human Race moves on ever so gloriously!" That's exactly the same as religion, a blanket to hide under so you won't have to come to terms with the absurd meaninglessness of it all and the fact you'll be DEAD, gone from the Universe, not asleep, not watching from afar with pride, but NON-EXISTENT. Your ideas will be dead, your thoughts will be dead, your ideals will be dead. It doesn't matter one iota to the dead "you" what happens after the event. There won't be a "you" to care.
What definition are you using? Because in mine, "human progress" does not appear.
If that wasn't evident already, I consider Enlightenment values to be vastly better than anything the competition has to offer. That said, whatever happens to the world after I'm gone will not affect me, at all. This is merely a logical corollary of me not believing in any form of afterlife. Something I think many of you share with me.
Now there's a huge difference between intellectually acknowledging that as truth and actually living by it as a moral principle. It's a bit like the Talos principle. I can have any kind of wild philosophical theory about the world (and in this case, a grounded one), I'm still a big chimp that likes to eat and fuck. It would take an exceptional effort of willpower to go against millions of years of evolutionary conditioning, and at the end I don't think there would be any actual reward for doing so.
You're literally Oberyn plus a constant.
Isn't the rationale of every living being to maximize happiness?
Being a heroin addict isn't most people's definition of happiness, Leshma.
People tend to suffer to live with rewards they don't deserve
... because besides the fact it's weird as hell, it destroys you : if you're a man who's being injected drugs just for continuous pleasure, while sustaining to your basic needs, you're not worth more than a corpse, since you'll have the stunned mind of a larvae because of the drugs, not being able to reflect about anything, even yourself.
I'd rather prefer an honorable and decent/quick way to die, rather than live the rest of my life like less than an animal.
Xant, give us your definition of happiness. It can't be the generic smile of a child, a loving embrace of a female, rainbows with other natural nonsense, on top of world's peace... I am genuinely curious.
I'll go with heroine-goo in a heartbeat.
This part i don't understand..
People who don't work for their rewards, tend to normally find themselves sad, or disappointed of their life at some point, since they don't deserve that reward. When you get something, while you know you did literally nothing to deserve it, not only alters its taste, but also makes you feel some kind of weird sensation/feeling after that, like mediocrity, or shame.
It's relative. Having a "mind of a larvae" vs being a sort of a god-like intellectual being has nothing to do with happiness. As to destroying the body - let's just, for the sake of an argument, replace heroine with an equally pleasurable brain stimulation, that just makes you feel as good or better. It's not the point.
Well, the point of drugs, is literally to get ourselves filled with endorphins and dopamine, which leads to the same thing : you're being completely stunned, permanently in this case. This is what I actually thought of : if you're given rewards, without any work, you don't learn, you don't progress, you don't reflect. This means your brain is slowly, but surely rotting away. Stunning it completely with drugs just accelerate the things.
Me, you, and everyone else is an animal as far as i am concerned. Terms such as "honor" etc., are so virtual and relative, that I see no sense in discussing them in this particular case :) F.ex.: those ISIS apes prefer to honorably blow themselves up in a crowd of people, and mine or your's opinion about it mean less than nothing to them.
When I say I want an honorable death, or anything similar compared to living like this, I mean I would actually wish for people I like to get a last sight of me, dying for a right cause, in a way I wished, rather than living like that, and not even realizing I'm about to die or whatever. Nothing will matter anymore once you die, as Kafein explained quite well, but I actually wish something good remains of my short existence on this fucked up planet, even if it'll last shortly.
EDIT:
btw guys, don't get mad, i am just in a mood to argue a little. let's keep it rollin'
Not writing with any anger nor any feeling in fact, I keep those for when I keep dying because of lag and stuff. Serious business, y'know... :lol:
Learning stuff also comes with confrontation of ideas (as long as they're justified) and discussion. Hell, if I didn't come on these forums years ago, I wouldn't even be able to write correctly a single sentence in English, but posters like Kafein, Molly, and some others gave me the keys to improve my english. I don't understand tho, why some people consider discussing on the internet as a competition, when everyone can gain something by actually learning something new, without any kind of hate tells, etc.
Don't think so, otherwise we would all be heroin addicts by now.
You seem to know alot about what happens after death, are you dead?It's called inductive reasoning. We know where thoughts are formed, and what they need to be formed, i.e., a working brain. There is no reason to assume death is anything but non-existence, and all the reasons to believe it is non-existence, based on everything science has told us so far.
I'd argue the desire to ensure the human race progresses after death on what some would consider a path of "englightenment" is connected to and derived from the more primal desire to ensure the survival of our species through recreation and survival instincts.
If there's no point considering existence after death because you believe it doesn't affect you after you die then why exist at all?Because I like existing. What a hard question.
Are you now going to fall back on the excuse that the primal instinct to survive and reproduce justifies your existence without acknowledging my first points?What are you even talking about?
Or are you going to come back stating how much enjoyment you derive from your existence, even if that enjoyment is partially derived from the primal instinct and desire to procreate?I don't derive enjoyment from existence because of the "primal instinct and desire to procreate." Even if I did, there's a saying about bad masters and good servants.
If so then this rationale could at least on the very basic level be construed by some that you do infact care what happens after death because you desire to procreate and ensure the survival of the speciesYes, I'm sure an idiot could "construe" it to mean that, but that's why we'd call that person an idiot -- it makes no sense whatsoever. Enjoying life somehow turns into "desiring to procreate and ensure the survival of the species"? What? There's more to life than sex, you know, and even if sex were one of the main reasons for someone to be alive, that's still a non sequitur. If Bob enjoys sex because enjoying sex made his ancestors breed more, that doesn't mean Bob has the desire to procreate and ensure the survival of the species; it means Bob likes sex, which, in his ancestors, as a side effect led to those genes that make you enjoy sex being passed on.
Xant, give us your definition of happiness. It can't be the generic smile of a child, a loving embrace of a female, rainbows with other natural nonsense, on top of world's peace... I am genuinely curious.Being able to do what I want to do. Mostly things that I find intellectually and physically pleasing, and those things include difficulties and struggle and competition, so I wouldn't want to be hooked to a heroin machine. The trick, I've found, is to pick and choose which one of your evolved instincts and traits you find acceptable and worthy on an intellectual level and then pursue things that align with them, while subduing the instincts and traits you dislike.
People who don't work for their rewards, tend to normally find themselves sad, or disappointed of their life at some point, since they don't deserve that reward. When you get something, while you know you did literally nothing to deserve it, not only alters its taste, but also makes you feel some kind of weird sensation/feeling after that, like mediocrity, or shame.
Well, the point of drugs, is literally to get ourselves filled with endorphins and dopamine, which leads to the same thing : you're being completely stunned, permanently in this case. This is what I actually thought of : if you're given rewards, without any work, you don't learn, you don't progress, you don't reflect. This means your brain is slowly, but surely rotting away. Stunning it completely with drugs just accelerate the things
When I say I want an honorable death, or anything similar compared to living like this, I mean I would actually wish for people I like to get a last sight of me, dying for a right cause, in a way I wished, rather than living like that, and not even realizing I'm about to die or whatever. Nothing will matter anymore once you die, as Kafein explained quite well, but I actually wish something good remains of my short existence on this fucked up planet, even if it'll last shortl
The third time Moenghus matched his gaze, Cnaüir did not reach for his stick. Instead he asked: “Why? Why do you provoke me?”
That is why i was mentioning the will to compete in my first post. Most people see themselves only through other peoples' eyes - one can not tell right from wrong, if there is no one to define it, etc.
I dislike people in general, but being only human, i still enjoy others' attention, my pride needs to be fed, and I am subjected to, mostly retarded, codes of conduct. I am too weak to break these chains, but I do not wish to be completely enslaved by them, and so when being alone, and taking personal decisions regarding my life, when i harm no other people, I try to choose what i want, rather than choosing what is right.
Not sure if it makes much sense, but hopefully you can see the direction in which i am going here.
That is why i choose heroine-goo for myself - free from opinions, morality, having no need to justify myself and such :)
Isn't the rationale of every living being to maximize happiness?
Having a meaningful discussion with you is impossible. You can't seem to follow the thread of the conversation.Pretty sure quite a lot of people think the very same about you right now. :rolleyes:
I think he means I'm not letting myself be caught in trivial rhetorical traps.And I answered him anyway, which he ignored to say that discussing with you is impossible.
And I answered him anyway, which he ignored to say that discussing with you is impossible.
Discussing with me is impossible. To finish a discussion you must first do the first half of the discussion, then the first half of the remaining discussion, then the first half of... you know where I'm going with this.http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/free-energy-already-exists-we've-been-kept-in-the-dark-for-over-a-century/msg1179391/#msg1179391
http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/free-energy-already-exists-we've-been-kept-in-the-dark-for-over-a-century/msg1179391/#msg1179391
I beat you to the Zeno reference, bitch.
It's called inductive reasoning. We know where thoughts are formed, and what they need to be formed, i.e., a working brain. There is no reason to assume death is anything but non-existence, and all the reasons to believe it is non-existence, based on everything science has told us so far.
That's nice.
Because I like existing. What a hard question.
What are you even talking about?
I don't derive enjoyment from existence because of the "primal instinct and desire to procreate." Even if I did, there's a saying about bad masters and good servants.
Yes, I'm sure an idiot could "construe" it to mean that, but that's why we'd call that person an idiot -- it makes no sense whatsoever. Enjoying life somehow turns into "desiring to procreate and ensure the survival of the species"? What? There's more to life than sex, you know, and even if sex were one of the main reasons for someone to be alive, that's still a non sequitur. If Bob enjoys sex because enjoying sex made his ancestors breed more, that doesn't mean Bob has the desire to procreate and ensure the survival of the species; it means Bob likes sex, which, in his ancestors, as a side effect led to those genes that make you enjoy sex being passed on.
Being able to do what I want to do. Mostly things that I find intellectually and physically pleasing, and those things include difficulties and struggle and competition, so I wouldn't want to be hooked to a heroin machine. The trick, I've found, is to pick and choose which one of your evolved instincts and traits you find acceptable and worthy on an intellectual level and then pursue things that align with them, while subduing the instincts and traits you dislike.
Don't worry. Even Penrose fell for it and he used to be one of the best.
And I'm also a stoic. Kinda.
When he was asked where he came from, he replied, "I am a citizen of the world (cosmopolites)". This was a radical claim in a world where a man's identity was intimately tied to his citizenship in a particular city state. An exile and an outcast, a man with no social identity, Diogenes made a mark on his contemporaries.
Murmi knows best...
oh... and Turkhammer too...
They know best.
2300 years ago there was a man with ideas that Oberyn despise. According to Big O, he should die childless and thus his philosophy dying with him. How come these days there are so many people who share his opinion?
...
“For Men? History. Language. Passion. Custom. All these things determine what men say, think, and do. These are the hidden puppet-strings from which all men hang.”
...
Clearly my references to the lizard brain went RIGHT over your head, no wonder you think I'm an idiot a conclusion you've deduced through your own lack of understanding and ignorance which infact makes you the.. I'm not going to call you an idiot. You're just a twat.No such thing as lizard brain. Back to school for you.
There are many reasons to supect that there may be more to life after death if not least from our lack of understanding about our existence and the nature of reality.Nope.
Then there's testamonies of people who've had near death experiences, children who claim to have been another person in a past life and more...The very fact you mention this throws your already tenuous credibility out the window.
Ok much of it may be made up bollocks and I'm sure you'll come up with a scientific excuse or reason to justify near death experiences.Yeah, screw scientific "excuses"! What does science think it is, anyway?
If we lived back in the middle-ages, you'd probably one of those people arguing that the world is flat because of the current limit of our academic knowledge at the time. "Smart people say so, so it must be so.".. Well done stupid.Wow, amazing straw man. You even call me stupid for something I only do - no, I'm sorry, would do if we lived in the middle-ages - in your imagination. Truly, your intellect knows no bounds. But yes, I think we're done here -- you've shown you don't understand how evolution works and you think scientific reasons are "excuses."
No such thing as lizard brain. Back to school for you.
http://blog.singularvalues.com/2012/09/lizard-brain-theory-debunked.html
Nevertheless, I understood what you meant by it, it's just wrong and a classic mistake by someone whose understanding of evolution is on a very shallow level.
There is no subconscious ""lizard brain"" underneath it all that's guiding your actions so you reproduce more and making you want to ensure the survival of your species. This is not how evolution, genes or the subconscious work.
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"Individual organisms are best thought of as adaptation-executers rather than as fitness-maximizers."
—John Tooby and Leda Cosmides, The Psychological Foundations of Culture.
Nope.
The very fact you mention this throws your already tenuous credibility out the window.
http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/stay-awake/msg1196915/#msg1196915
WITCHCRAFT is apparently a real life wizard, he can make boiled water appear and then disappear! His brain said it was there, so it must be so. And he sees demons and dragons! Demons and dragons exist, breaking news.
But no, of course visions are completely reliable especially when the body is in a massive state of shock and the electricity is all fucked up in your brain.
Yeah, screw scientific "excuses"! What does science think it is, anyway?
Wow, amazing straw man. You even call me stupid for something I only do - no, I'm sorry, would do if we lived in the middle-ages - in your imagination. Truly, your intellect knows no bounds. But yes, I think we're done here -- you've shown you don't understand how evolution works and you think scientific reasons are "excuses."
You still don't understand how science works, do you?
Resembles a discussion we had before and there kinda is no point to argue that specific 'thing' until you do... imho...
What a silly thing to say Molly.:lol:
There have been many cases where theoretical science has become proven science and cases where "proven" science debunked. You're out of your depth here.
:lol:
Yes, I am certainly out of my depth here.
Sorry for bothering you. Carry on, please.
As I had said before, if you don't care about what happens to the human race when you die then you might as well kill yourself.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
I've not done alot of research on the subjectNo, really? I couldn't tell.
you admit that scientists can be wrongWhat a concept. That's something only a child or someone with your average Creationist's level of understanding of science would say.
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Murmi knows best...
oh... and Turkhammer too...
They know best.
Pretty sure quite a lot of people think the very same about you right now. :rolleyes:
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No, really? I couldn't tell.
What a concept. That's something only a child or someone with your average Creationist's level of understanding of science would say.
A concept? It's a fact. Scientists have been and can be wrong they are not infallable and you can't argue otherwise.
I'm not really surprised that we find you nit picking again while still failing to argue or refute the principles behind my main arguments. You are still but an ape after all.You haven't had a single argument, only incoherent rambling that moves to non sequitur conclusions. Let's try one more time, as rigorously as you can, describe why this is true:
if you don't care about what happens to the human race when you die then you might as well kill yourself.
Oh. My. God. You just went full retard. Never go full retard.
You haven't had a single argument, only incoherent rambling that moves to non sequitur conclusions. Let's try one more time, as rigorously as you can, describe why this is true:
Yawn.
Last word.ketchup stain
Quickly, someone close this thread! D: