Author Topic: Iraq falling appart  (Read 55782 times)

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Offline Leshma

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #465 on: September 08, 2014, 02:31:04 pm »
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You can't sit on both chairs. You're either choir boy or not.

From what I remember, in the past Church forbid abortions at any cost and in situations like those you mentioned, they had attitude like "god is punishing you for your sins and that's the reason for your and suffering of your unborn and deformed baby, proper thing to do is to endure painful death at birth, both you and your baby". Modern church isn't like that but that's because millions of people put some serious effort to change things.

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #466 on: September 08, 2014, 02:34:21 pm »
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You can't sit on both chairs. You're either choir boy or not.

From what I remember, in the past Church forbid abortions at any cost and in situations like those you mentioned, they had attitude like "god is punishing you for your sins and that's the reason for your and suffering of your unborn and deformed baby, proper thing to do is to endure painful death at birth, both you and your baby". Modern church isn't like that but that's because millions of people put some serious effort to change things.

Did I ever state I was a christian you fool?
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D

Offline Leshma

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #467 on: September 08, 2014, 02:39:41 pm »
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You do seem like that, based on your posting.

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #468 on: September 08, 2014, 02:41:37 pm »
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You do seem like that, based on your posting.



lol okay, but I would rather support whats right than whats wrong  8-)
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Offline Xant

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #469 on: September 08, 2014, 02:57:31 pm »
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I'll be a smart-ass and say that Atheist are more likely to kill their babies than Christians ever will. But if you had read what I had written you would of noted that God didn't order the killing of babies.
Here are some examples of commands in the Quran to kill the disbeliever.

Enjoy you dirty Kafir

Al Baqarah 2:91 Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, as Fitnah (to create disorder) is more severe than killing. However, do not fight them near Al-Masjid-ul-Harām (the Sacred Mosque in Makkah) unless they fight you there. However, if they fight you (there) you may kill them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=2&Ayah=191&toAyah=191&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9

Al-Maidah 5:35 O you who believe, fear Allah and seek means of nearness to Him, and carry out Jihād in His way, so that you may succeed.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=5&Ayah=35&toAyah=35&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9

At-Tawbah 9:5 So, when the sacred months expire, kill the Mushriks wherever you find them, and catch them and besiege them and sit in ambush for them everywhere. Then, if they repent and establish Salāh and pay Zakāh, leave their way. Surely, Allah is most Forgiving, Very-Merciful.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=9&Ayah=5&toAyah=5&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9

At-Tawbah 9:29 Fight those People of the Book who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, and do not take as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared as unlawful, and do not profess the Faith of Truth; (fight them) until they pay jizyah with their own hands while they are subdued.
http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=9&Ayah=29&toAyah=29&Language=2&LanguageID=2&TranslationBook=9
Uh, what? How are atheists more likely to kill their babies? And how is that relevant? And God did indeed order the killing of babies, and killed them himself. "So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #470 on: September 08, 2014, 05:31:52 pm »
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God literally killed babies, and quite a lot of them too.

Actually no the god in the old testament is actually quite harsh to his chosen people. He punished them many times for falling away from worshiping him.

But Im interested where is this racism you speak of? Verses?
Literally the entire Old Testament is full of god ordering genocides because well, these peoples are not Jews, you really need me to look up the verses? You can try as hard as you want, but the Christian god is completely incompatible with any liberal modern ideas.

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #471 on: September 08, 2014, 06:07:59 pm »
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Uh, what? How are atheists more likely to kill their babies? And how is that relevant? And God did indeed order the killing of babies, and killed them himself. "So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."



Dont try to twist words, God didn't order anyone to kill, he did order Moses to deliver Gods warnings to the Pharaoh in which the Pharaoh rejected each and everyone. It wasn't until God gave Egypt its last and worst plague that the Pharaoh agreed to release Moses and his people. And God was pretty slow in deciding to kill of every first born, he gave the Pharaoh ample time to do the right thing by God.

Where as the Pharaoh was pretty quick to order the killing of every Hebrew boy.

Exodus 1:1-22
1 These are the names of the sons of Israel who went to Egypt with Jacob, each with his family: 2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi and Judah; 3 Issachar, Zebulun and Benjamin; 4 Dan and Naphtali; Gad and Asher. 5 The descendants of Jacob numbered seventya in all; Joseph was already in Egypt.
6 Now Joseph and all his brothers and all that generation died, 7 but the Israelites were exceedingly fruitful; they multiplied greatly, increased in numbers and became so numerous that the land was filled with them.
8 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9“Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.”
11So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 12But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites 13and worked them ruthlessly. 14They made their lives bitter with harsh labor in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their harsh labor the Egyptians worked them ruthlessly.
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16“When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.” 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. 18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, “Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?”
19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”
20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: “Every Hebrew boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live.”

I think God had every right to be severe towards Egypt to save his chosen people from oppression, torture, and death.
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #472 on: September 08, 2014, 06:12:59 pm »
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God literally killed babies, and quite a lot of them too.
Literally the entire Old Testament is full of god ordering genocides because well, these peoples are not Jews, you really need me to look up the verses? You can try as hard as you want, but the Christian god is completely incompatible with any liberal modern ideas.

State a verse cause each can only be taken in the right context.

But as with most of the 'massacres' that took place in the old testament many were not ordered by god. As in the case where God ordered Jehu to destroy the linage of Ahab, Jehu went out of line and massacred the Baal worshipers which god did not order. Jehu and his line was punished for it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 06:22:17 pm by Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith »
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #473 on: September 08, 2014, 06:15:08 pm »
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Uh, what? How are atheists more likely to kill their babies? And how is that relevant?

I was being a smart-ass, but isn't it those atheist who are always going to abortion clinics? Am I right  :mrgreen:
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #474 on: September 08, 2014, 06:30:50 pm »
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Interesting little read here this is from Sahih al-Bukhari. Not long after the battle in which Safiyyah's husband was killed in Muhammad takes Safiyyah as a trophy wife  :twisted:

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367:

Narrated by 'Abdul 'Aziz

Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet . He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, 'Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, 'Muhammad (has come).' (Some of our companions added, "With his army.") We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle ."


http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_1_08.php
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D

Offline Xant

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #475 on: September 08, 2014, 06:33:35 pm »
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Dont try to twist words, God didn't order anyone to kill, he did order Moses to deliver Gods warnings to the Pharaoh in which the Pharaoh rejected each and everyone. It wasn't until God gave Egypt its last and worst plague that the Pharaoh agreed to release Moses and his people. And God was pretty slow in deciding to kill of every first born, he gave the Pharaoh ample time to do the right thing by God.

What are you talking about? How did I in any way "twist your words"? Your justifications are thin. And retarded. God killed BABIES. You're trying to justify the murder of fucking innocent little newborn. And the best part? God is supposed to be omnipotent, yet you make him sound like a petty fucking tribal leader with little power who needs to give ultimatums. That's not how omnipotent beings act. That's not even how humans with real power act.

I think God had every right to be severe towards Egypt to save his chosen people from oppression, torture, and death.
Again, you're being retarded. What had little babies done to justify their murder? That's some really fucked up sense of justice, "Let's kill their babies to show them what's what!"

At first I thought you're just a religious nutjob, but now you've shown yourself to be a defender of needless murder of babies, among other things.. so yeah, not only are you fucked up, your logic is, perhaps not coincidentally, also fucked up.

Quote
Intrinsically, there's nothing small about the ethical problem with slaughtering thousands of innocent first-born male children to convince an unelected Pharaoh to release slaves who logically could have been teleported out of the country.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Xant

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #476 on: September 08, 2014, 06:41:21 pm »
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And, you know what, all this is beside the point - even though it's really sick and fucked up that you're trying to make it seem like a legit tactic to kill thousands of innocent children on a whim, it has nothing to do with my original point, which was a counter-argument against your point: God killed these children, even you don't deny it, so then, if it's good enough for God, it should be good enough for Christians, thus Christians would be living by his example if they went around slaughtering innocent children.

Referring to:
what ISIS is now doing is exactly what Mohammad commanded his followers to do. They live by his example.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #477 on: September 08, 2014, 07:02:04 pm »
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Quote
"Intrinsically, there's nothing small about the ethical problem with slaughtering thousands of innocent first-born male children to convince an unelected Pharaoh to release slaves who logically could have been teleported out of the country."

The problem with that is that God has given us free will to do what we want, we get to choose which direction we wish to go. He gave the Pharaoh an ultimatum, release Moses and his people or prepare to receive the plague. I think any normal person who seen what the first nine plagues did would realize Gods 'omnipotence' but the Pharaoh was to proud and up tight to back down. 


But if you want to talk about omnipotent then I think the creator of life in general has the right to end the lives of those who are going against him cause ultimately the Pharaoh and Egypt weren't disobeying Moses they were disobeying god. And it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.
 

And no Christians no mater what God does in regards to those who disobey are not allowed to murder, it would be hypocritical especially seeing that Jesus commanded the christian to not murder in Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.

Again the major difference between what is written in the quran and the bible is that the quran 'commands' one to wage jihad, where as in the bible there is no command for the followers of Jesus to kill the infidel.
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D

Offline Xant

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #478 on: September 08, 2014, 07:14:34 pm »
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The problem with that is that God has given us free will to do what we want, we get to choose which direction we wish to go. He gave the Pharaoh an ultimatum, release Moses and his people or prepare to receive the plague. I think any normal person who seen what the first nine plagues did would realize Gods 'omnipotence' but the Pharaoh was to proud and up tight to back down. 


But if you want to talk about omnipotent then I think the creator of life in general has the right to end the lives of those who are going against him cause ultimately the Pharaoh and Egypt weren't disobeying Moses they were disobeying god. And it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.
 

And no Christians no mater what God does in regards to those who disobey are not allowed to murder, it would be hypocritical especially seeing that Jesus commanded the christian to not murder in Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.

Again the major difference between what is written in the quran and the bible is that the quran 'commands' one to wage jihad, where as in the bible there is no command for the followers of Jesus to kill the infidel.
I can't believe there are still people stupid enough to not see all these contradictions you're spewing. Start by learning, and then thinking, about what "God", "free will", "ultimatum", "plague", "omnipotence", "ethics", "right", "disobeying god" mean by themselves and then in context.

Quote
And it doesn't specify whether or not they were all kids, they could be young and full grown adults.
What. The. Fuck. You're just as fucked up as ISIS.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #479 on: September 08, 2014, 07:20:10 pm »
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I can't believe there are still people stupid enough to not see all these contradictions you're spewing. Start by learning, and then thinking, about what "God", "free will", "ultimatum", "plague", "omnipotence", "ethics", "right", "disobeying god" mean by themselves and then in context.
What. The. Fuck. You're just as fucked up as ISIS.

I don't really understand, I cant see any contradictions

Could you be kind to maybe highlight those contradictions for me  :mrgreen:

Are you saying we dont have free will because god is omnipotent?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 07:23:34 pm by Charlemagne_De_Kingsmith »
How do you pronounce Charlemagne? Shar-la-main =D