Author Topic: Iraq falling appart  (Read 52408 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #750 on: October 19, 2014, 05:03:53 pm »
+1
Also, we know it was not just a mistake. Creating borders with no consideration for people living inside will automatically lead to war inside and outside the country.

Then it's easier to control them and to sell weapons to both sides. French and British are experts in that game.

In Iraq for exemple. At this time, oil was mainly in Kuwait, and Arabs were in Iraq (few oil was discovered). So they created a little country easier to control : Kuwait

(in fact this country was created by the brit empire many years before oil usage, for commercial reason, but confirmed at the end of Ottoman empire).

A lot of african borders were drawn in consideration of the transportation lines, to deliver goods to a port.

The goal was to control the economy of these countries.

Not because your are stupid, political leaders are too. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Selling weapons was not the main goal. Control of the economy or strategic places, are the main goals.

Tovi managed to contradict himself around 50 times in 3 posts, gg no re

Offline Tovi

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #751 on: October 19, 2014, 07:18:32 pm »
0
Obviously not. Where is the contradiction ?

About Kuwait : It was an artificial state created by the UK to control the navigation toward India. Then Ottoman empire invaded it. After its fall, they tried to rebuild this country for oil reasons. They could have just created a single state, because Kuwait was under Bassorah administration. But in both cases it was a western creation. Times change but western Imperialism is still the same.
To sell weapons was not a major goal at the begining. But it became more important during Cold War.
During XIX century, coal mines control was important; during XX century it was oil etc.
You can't just sit and watch Middle East burning without admitting that Europe and USA have a huge responsability. And that's a reason why they hate us so much in this area.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 07:27:37 pm by Tovi »
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Offline Xant

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #752 on: October 19, 2014, 07:55:30 pm »
0
Tovi's bullshit per post ratio is a staggering 100%. Not only that, but he's kept it up for years. Not an easy feat.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #753 on: October 19, 2014, 07:58:45 pm »
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Tovi's bullshit per post ratio is a staggering 100%. Not only that, but he's kept it up for years. Not an easy feat.

If you know he's a BS poster why do you keep responding?

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #754 on: October 19, 2014, 08:49:39 pm »
0
Obviously not. Where is the contradiction ?

About Kuwait : It was an artificial state created by the UK to control the navigation toward India. Then Ottoman empire invaded it. After its fall, they tried to rebuild this country for oil reasons. They could have just created a single state, because Kuwait was under Bassorah administration. But in both cases it was a western creation. Times change but western Imperialism is still the same.
To sell weapons was not a major goal at the begining. But it became more important during Cold War.
During XIX century, coal mines control was important; during XX century it was oil etc.
You can't just sit and watch Middle East burning without admitting that Europe and USA have a huge responsability. And that's a reason why they hate us so much in this area.

1. Lol, k.
2. People do whatever to make money. There is nothing "wrong" there, it's simple human nature. If I had 10k planks of wood and 1 place would buy it all for 10,000 and then another would buy  it for 50,000 I'll sell to the higher price.
3. Majority of Middle east fought itself for a long, long time. Due to Globalization, the middle east seems to be more destabilized from outside sources, but all that has happened is nothing but what Islamic Countries have been doing for centuries. Oh, and FYI, The ARABS revolted from Ottoman Rule with British Help.

Only Syria, Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq were the countries whose borders were drawn after the war. The majority of the old Ottoman Empire was long since lost before World War I.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #755 on: October 19, 2014, 08:59:31 pm »
0
If you know he's a BS poster why do you keep responding?
I wasn't responding to him, dimwit. Notice how I said "Tovi's", not "your"?
Meaning lies as much
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #756 on: October 19, 2014, 09:14:00 pm »
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I wasn't responding to him, dimwit. Notice how I said "Tovi's", not "your"?

If you know I'm a BS poster why do you keep responding?

Offline Tovi

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #757 on: October 19, 2014, 09:55:52 pm »
-1
1. Lol, k.
2. People do whatever to make money. There is nothing "wrong" there, it's simple human nature. If I had 10k planks of wood and 1 place would buy it all for 10,000 and then another would buy  it for 50,000 I'll sell to the higher price.
3. Majority of Middle east fought itself for a long, long time. Due to Globalization, the middle east seems to be more destabilized from outside sources, but all that has happened is nothing but what Islamic Countries have been doing for centuries. Oh, and FYI, The ARABS revolted from Ottoman Rule with British Help.

Only Syria, Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq were the countries whose borders were drawn after the war. The majority of the old Ottoman Empire was long since lost before World War I.

I was just pointing out the fact that the West is involved in the ME since a long time. As I said, I'm not judging if it's a good thing or a bad thing. Anyway, "good" or "bad" is really pointless when you study History.
So, today, we are still involved in the area, with imperialist goals. And political Islam is mainly a western responsability.

Ottoman Empire was imperialist too (as Japan, China or whatever).  I don't try to blame western countries only. But, personaly, I don't think that Imperialism is a good thing for the majority of Humanity.
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Offline Umbra

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #758 on: October 23, 2014, 01:06:20 pm »
+1
Yes, the Middle East was such a peaceful place before US came and fucked everything up.

Oh wait.

If not ISIS, then there'd be some other just as fucked-up group there now. Always has been (since they killed off their smart people a couple thousand years ago), always will be, until the US stops waging war where the ROE is decided by what Joe Average thinks is proper.

You could blame the mongols for that one, but then again they terrorized the chinese, russians and europeans too. The problems are too complex. I mean on one had we have the cradle of civilization, Egypt, Assyria, Hitites, Babylon, Achaemenid Empire and later Persian ones. More european than europe in the helenization period after the Partition of Alexanders empire. Romans etc. What went wrong? Even in early islam you have Houses of wisdom in mayor cities. After the mongols ended the Islamic golden age everything kinda went to shit i guess. I honestly dont know, its fascinating really that a region can have such a diverse background.

Who is really to blame for the shithole today? Mongols, crusades, Turkic tribes, sea people, the west, themselves, islam, tribal backwardness, stupid borders? Probably a little bit of everything
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 01:28:51 pm by Umbra »
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #759 on: October 23, 2014, 01:55:16 pm »
0
Islamic revolution is the reason why middle east has been shit for decades.

There's a cute video page on facebook where ISIL "fighters" post their "achievements", such as stoning innocent woman while her father is cheering for her to die, hanging young kids, quality stuff like that. Belongs to Muslims really? topic but I've decided to spare forums this time.

Offline Piok

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #760 on: October 23, 2014, 04:15:34 pm »
0
Somebody is financing them. And must be very rich.
In war torn countries it is easy to "purchase" your own fanatics for relatively cheap money.
But this will not explain presence of highly trained individuals among them which are able to use brain in battle. Cos this is not very Arabic.

We will have very fun times in Europe when this rabble returns home.
Even if they not end like self propelled bomb bags. I am sure local organized crime will have some use for people without any moral values.
So be prepared for increased criminal activity in EU. 

I will not be surprised if some of ISIS victims ends in ARAB oil countries as slaves.
We can see how are workers threated in Qatar the True beacon of democracy.
Specially after this Mers virus around when relations to camels are cooler than ever.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #761 on: October 23, 2014, 07:05:13 pm »
0
There is no real reason for them to return in Europe. ISIS has the project to establish a Caliphate, while Al Qaeda is a business around worldwide terrorism.
So, most of Daesh figthers want to live in their Caliphate, that's why you can see entire families living Europe.
About international islamic mercenaries, they will probably move toward Central Asia once the job done (or lost).


About air strikes : Almost 4 000 missions for only 350 enemy casualties. The worst air operation of History.
Kobane resist only with the help of Syrian Army.
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Offline Christo

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #762 on: October 23, 2014, 08:57:30 pm »
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..The worst air operation of History.

but France had an airforce in ww2
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Offline Butan

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #763 on: October 24, 2014, 02:04:21 am »
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About air strikes : Almost 4 000 missions for only 350 enemy casualties. The worst air operation of History.

Could be they aim for caches and factories.
Where do you get that number?

Offline Tovi

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Re: Iraq falling appart
« Reply #764 on: October 24, 2014, 10:53:57 pm »
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Of course it doesn't count material damages. But even in this domain, they spend millions dollars missiles to destroy some pick-up, antenas or artisanal refineries .

(Sorry, I forgot the main source, but here is one.)
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