Iraq falling appart

[BlindGuy]

You lack one fundamental piece of knowledge about Middle Eastern Islamic terrorists Panos: They will only kill other Muslims, probably because it is far a lot easier than killing the Israeli.

While I am not Isreal's biggest fan, the ISIS boys would get fucking rekt by the IDF, no amount of religious zeal and stolen weapons can compete with the efficient killing machine that the IDF are.

But it cannot happen anyway: there isn't a single Islamic extremist group of any note that Isreali intelligence hasn't penetrated to its core. When the Islamic nutjobs plan something, the Isrealis know before the plans are even finalised.

[Daunt_Flockula]

damn, and of course nobodys talking about the lack of voting people, but the "great" success of his vote...

I´ll just quote what my grandpa always said: "Even if you don´t know what to choose: go to the vote, because the radicals (meaning the others), they´re always going to vote."

Manipulation of news is surely a method of suppression practiced in any country one could name. Yet it has been taken to a whole new level in Turkey. Probably Turkey is also the only country where you can see like 13 out of 15 newspapers being published on the same day with exactly the same headline, which was served to them by government advisors. Of course, foreign news agencies need to check their facts with what the national media says. So, it becomes a tad bit impossible for international readers to find out the actual flow of events.

This is one of the many atrocities which have been rendered normal by the impending dictator of Turkey in his 12 years of rule so far. Sad but true.

[Christo]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc1_1408481278

..

[Daunt_Flockula]

As everyone in the video's comment section pointed out, that guy had English accent. I have seen videos before where women in burka and accompanying bearded apes were carrying out pro-shariah demonstrations in some British town. Put aside the well-mannered people who have managed to blend in and integrate, but I really can't understand why UK is putting up with these primitives. I can't bear to see them here in Turkey (as expected, their numbers have gone up steeply in the last decade), I would more than hate to see them in UK. Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.

[Umbra]

As everyone in the video's comment section pointed out, that guy had English accent. I have seen videos before where women in burka and accompanying bearded apes were carrying out pro-shariah demonstrations in some British town. Put aside the well-mannered people who have managed to blend in and integrate, but I really can't understand why UK is putting up with these primitives. I can't bear to see them here in Turkey (as expected, their numbers have gone up steeply in the last decade), I would more than hate to see them in UK. Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.

What cant you understand about putting up with them? What will they do, deport them? They are 2nd generation born in the UK, there is nowhere to deport, they are British citizens. And since everyone will cry islamophobia if you arrest them, they are basically untouchable.

[Christo]

there is nowhere to deport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

 

Then they are all in one place, you know what comes after that mf, bljat

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[Kafein]

As everyone in the video's comment section pointed out, that guy had English accent. I have seen videos before where women in burka and accompanying bearded apes were carrying out pro-shariah demonstrations in some British town. Put aside the well-mannered people who have managed to blend in and integrate, but I really can't understand why UK is putting up with these primitives. I can't bear to see them here in Turkey (as expected, their numbers have gone up steeply in the last decade), I would more than hate to see them in UK. Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.

Even considering so-called reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry, maintaining it for more than one or two generations while living in a western liberal democracy is incredibly hard. Most children aren't complete fools, they abandon their parent's lunacy growing up in an open environment. Also I don't think pro-sharia movements are more worrying than "traditional" far right. It's essentially the same rethoric of intolerance, just applied to another culture. And I have yet to see some evidence that more than a few percents of Muslim immigrants are pro-sharia.

[Daunt_Flockula]

Most children aren't complete fools, they abandon their parent's lunacy growing up in an open environment.

...

Also I don't think pro-sharia movements are more worrying than "traditional" far right.

There were days in the past when I'd think to myself the exact same way. I mean most children not being complete fools. Elaborating on this one isn't really necessary. Let's just say I have lived to see that this really isn't the case. Given its historical flaws, my nation may not be known for being a fine example of "western liberal democracy", but it did fit in that description more or less. Still, we ended up facing the terrible truth that most children and their parents managed to preserve their nature of being fools for generations. We do experience the aftermath at the moment.

As for that second remark of yours, I wouldn't rank any of the two to be any more dangerous than the other, because there seems to be a very good interaction between them. They magnify each other's terrible effects. After the beneficial interaction peaks, it just becomes a matter of whether the "traditional" far right can shake off the lunatics and carry on or it is time for the lunatics to take control.

[Chosen1]

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[BASNAK]

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I like it when religions are being reviewed and then criticized with real facts. However, I really dislike when people use false facts  to criticize religions like the image you just linked. From what I've seen and read, the only ones believing Taqiyya to mean what the image explained it to be, tend to be far-right-winger's. Not Muslims. The little white definition box in the image is not incorrect about deception and lying being allowed under certain circumstances. But it's taken out of context and twisted.

Now if you look up the meaning of the word and use in Islam you find:

In Islam, taqiyya تقية (alternative spellings taqiyeh, taqiya, taqiyah, tuqyah) is a form of religious dissimulation, or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are at risk of significant persecution.

This practice was emphasized in Shi'a Islam whereby adherents may conceal their religion when they are under threat, persecution, or compulsion. Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi'ites who were usually in minority and under pressure. In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby.

The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence. In the Sunni view, denying faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory"

It was quite common for Muslims to be persecuted by the Hejazi tribes in Islam's early days. Permitting Muslims that were caught and forced to renounce their faith, gave them the option to lie and escape persecution.

To conclude: I have read alot about criticism of Islam, and never have I seen serious debaters and websites use this argument. Simply because it's a really poor argument and you end up shooting yourself in the foot. If you want to critisize then do it properly.  And this isn't a rant against you Chosen1, just trying to clarify

[Butan]

Those maggots are not harmless. They are very well capable of undermining an entire country thanks to their incredible reproduction skills and unshaken bigotry.

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[Xant]

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Oh wow, look, Butan being a massive retard. You think Flockula is displaying bigotry there? Please, go to Syria or Iraq. I'm sure ISIS will be very tolerant, and, at most will be satisfied with writing something on the forums.

But of course you won't, you'd rather just write your Tovi-level crap online, probably because deep down you know you're wrong.

[Daunt_Flockula]

A typical act of a bigot, dear Butan, is attributing all of his intolerance, prejiduce and emnity to the ones he imposes these bad qualities on. Thing is somebody has to eventually point a finger to the bigot. It doesn't matter if the bigot takes it like an immature kid and tries to revert the argument against you.

Note that I am not trying to pronounce you a bigot just like you are trying to do to me. I am talking about the true bigots I have to face everyday at work, on the street, on public transport etc. etc. But it is true that your little move here is closely reminiscent of their usual behavior. I am sorry but I do have to strongly underline the fact that you have no clue. Seriously, playing the dignified humanitarian citizen with a high intellectual profile doesn't do anyone justice. It doesn't do justice to yourself in the first place. As I said, you just have no clue about the true meaning of bigotry. Try to walk here in my shoes or in the shoes of someone living in the middle east before giving me such bullshit with verses from Wikipedia and stuff.

[Murmillus_Prime]

The reason why the U.K puts up with Islamist marches ect is because we're meant to be a free country which allows freedom of expression and speech, however this clearly is not true.

In the British media if you criticise Israel you're far more likely to be moderated, censored and/or reprimanded for criticism towards the Jewish state and be accused of being anti-Semitic than if you start posting that all Muslims are murderous barbarians (which is not true). Of course the fact that anti-Muslim sentiment is supported/propagated by the Western mainstream media while silencing much of the dissent toward Israel's actions doesn't surprise me when the majority of the Western media is run by self confessed Zionists, whos interest it is to excuse Israel and shield it from much of the justified criticism it deserves.

Sorry for side-tracking a bit, but I believe everything we see happening in the Middle-East, in Ukraine and other parts of the world are all connected by the same actors with the same hidden agenda, and you can call me a conspiracy theory nut if you want but there have been people in power making plans for the world for centuries. The chaos we see in Iraq and Syria benefits Israel, benefits those in power in the West, the horrific murder of the journalist recently plays right into the hands of those who wish to interfere in the region and re-draw the maps, because suddenly all Muslims = Isis kind of mentality that Israel is trying to promote is becoming more prevalent in the West, and the more Muslims are dehumanised by the inhumane actions of an extreme Muslim minority, the more Israel can excuse its murder of Palestinians, our governments excuse their interference in the region and increase their influence.

[Daunt_Flockula]

I can agree to much of what you say Murm. I am very well aware that all is part of the plan. Still, while it may be true that Muslims are being dehumanised, I really can't see Muslims resisting against it. Here in Turkey, we have a group called Anticapitalist Muslims who strongly oppose the cannibalistic acts of radical groups like ISIS. On the other hand, we have a big majority of pro-shariah and pro-conquest neo-Ottoman Muslims.

These are the people who have been stubbornly electing Erdogan, the god of bigotry. They are the people who have wet dreams of conquering middle eastern lands and rebuilding the Ottoman empire. They are mindless zombies and they are as dumb as tree stumps. I don't see them resisting against the efforts to dehumanise Muslims. They are essentially dehumanised themselves. Nobody has to do it for them. Remember the Gezi Park protests. Young people have been slaughtered by the police. They gave the slaughter an applause. They hailed Erdogan the fucktard for explicitly defending the police brutality.

For the last 12 years, our society has been alienated directly through the discourses of Erdogan. We are not one people now. We are atheists, Shia, Kurds, alevites, marginal groups, enemies of state and religion, looters etc. Erdogan kept creating new categories in society day by day and our innocent Muslims back up his nonsensical dictatorial discourses. It may sound like a little bit of an exaggeration to you but to those Muslims anyone who is not walking on the same path as them is now called a terrorist by them.

You are a follower of Atatürk's doctrines? You are a fucking terrorist.
You join anti-government protests? You are a fucking terrorist.
You are not a Sunni Muslim that votes for Erdogan? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't buy the neo-Ottoman bullshit? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't approve of the explicit support the government has been offering to the illicit groups like the former FSA, al-Nusra or the current ISIS? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't dress like an Arab? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't greet people with "Salam alaykum"? You are a fucking terrorist.
You don't think that adding tons of Islam-related courses to primary school curricula and shoving them up children's mouths is a good idea? You, sir, surely are a terrorist.

Examples can take pages. I realize all my arguments here are based on Turkey, but this is where my observations take place mainly. We are all aware of the strings being pulled from above. Still I can't bring myself to have faith in Muslims. They are like untamed beasts. That is the sad fact. All it takes is a shepherd to herd them into violence.