Iraq falling appart

[Molly]

I like to imagine sometimes the numbers currently mass-emigrating to Europe being made up of young female Japanese, instead of young Arab and African men. How different it would be both in manner and in reception.

The Japanese society is one of the most homogeneous at home, btw.

Young female Japanese? Not gonna happen, mate.
Thanks to all their closed borders, the demographic age of Japanese is raising so quickly, give it another couple of decades and there are no young Japanese left at all.
Their struggle is real.

[Prpavi]

Young female Japanese? Not gonna happen, mate.
Thanks to all their closed borders, the demographic age of Japanese is raising so quickly, give it another couple of decades and there are no young Japanese left at all.
Their struggle is real.

What?

[ecorcheur_brokar]

So according to your point, Turks were right to slaughter armenians in the name of tribalism and the good part of history in the Balkans were the time were everyone killed those of different ethnicity?

I don't think that tribalism saved armenians (eventho they were practising it too) neither did it prevent people from being killed in the balkans.

You are right only on one point:

You may eventually learn that casting off your ethnic, cultural, tribal identity doesn't really mean much if the people you are doing it for don't also do the same. In fact they are encouraged to do the exact opposite.

It is indeed pointless to destroy tribalism in Europe if we import it from other countries, reason why immigration should be regulated and the immigrants should learn to respect other beliefs and traditions.

Destroying tribalism is not followed by a vacuum, it is followed by the understanding that your neighbour doesn't need to do exactly what you do so you can leave in peace. If you don't mind what your neighbour do in his private life and he is not minding what you do in yours either as long as it doesn't bother the other, then you'll be able to live in peace. Otherwise you will always find a new neighbour who does something different, and there will be no peace until everyone on earth has the one same culture.

Plus this "vaccum" seems quite powerfull to me as second generation immigrants from the Balkan are giving up their tribalism and mix with each other very well here, many of my friends from Kosovo descant have serbian friends and vice-versa.

I am not saying french, german or european culture is non-existant. I am just stating that having different culture is no reason to reject or kill each other and that is the motto that made Europe peaceful and stable.

[Molly]

What?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Japan
https://www.bostonfed.org/economic/conf/conf46/conf46k.pdf

tl;dr:
More deaths than births.

[Angantyr]

Demographic trends can be quickly reversed by population politics, and has been throughout history, the last two centuries included. Give families economic and perhaps ideological incentives to have more children and the native population can rise dramatically within one generation, especially in a rich industrialized nation like Japan (or Germany).

Instead of importing a work force from poorer countries that may in general have a lower level of education, or by importing unskilled labourers hoping to integrate and educate them (usually takes a few generations, the most recent numbers from Denmark says half of all non-western immigrants even in the third generation are still unemployed and lives on state welfare, despite free college and universities here), and if from a not very compatible culture may lead to ethnic-based friction, and social as many of these, already lower class in their country of origin, will make up a new underclass in the new country.

[Molly]

Demographic trends can be quickly reversed by population politics, and has been throughout history, the last two centuries included. Give families economic and perhaps ideological incentives to have more children and the native population can rise dramatically within one generation, especially in a rich industrialized nation like Japan (or Germany).

Instead of importing a work force from poorer countries that may in general have a lower level of education, or by importing unskilled labourers hoping to integrate and educate them (usually takes a few generations, the most recent numbers from Denmark says half of all non-western immigrants even in the third generation are still unemployed and lives on state welfare, despite free college and universities here), and if from a not very compatible culture may lead to ethnic-based friction.

Politics won't do anything tho cuz whatever a working proper political solution would be, it's gonna cost money.

Your last statement kinda makes no sense since it doesn't seem to be a finished sentenced to me but I guess I got the meaning, and yes, ofc it would be preferable if the local population produces enough babies but see my above statement.

And the Japanese example is an extreme one because lately it actually showed a decline in Japanese population. And with their rather tight borders and tradinational, nationalistic approach, that trend is not countered short-/middle-term.

[Angantyr]

Everything costs money. Importing foreign workers cost money. Recently looked at how much the money the recent migrant influx is going to cost Denmark and Germany and it's quite a lot, even the optimistic projections. Germany's entire surplus growth last year, or something like that. Under 1% of GDP, but it's still a lot of money (10bn EUR for 2015 and even higher in 2016) and a similar amount could be used for example to make it more viable for German couples to reproduce.

Despite the cost, incentivizing women to have more children have historically been a sound investment, cash incentives, paid maternity leave etc. Russia and China is doing it right now, Scandinavian countries and France has been doing it for a while, Iran did it after the Iran-Iraq war (the amount of young people is why we are having the current very positive secular, democratic development in Iran). It's usually a faster, more effective and safer way compared to importing a work force, especially from the developing world.


FERTILITY RATE, FAMILY POLICIES (http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/European-nations-offer-incentives-to-have-kids-3201278.php) Sources: European Union; Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development; BBC.

(click to show/hide)

FRANCE

Fertility rate: 2.0

Policies: Mothers can take 16 weeks paid maternity leave for the first child and up to 26 weeks for the third. Child care is subsidized, with younger children entitled to full-day child care. A $1,300 grant is paid at the seventh month of pregnancy. There are train, subway and tax breaks for families with children, particularly after the third child.
SWEDEN

Fertility rate: 1.85

Policies: Fathers and mothers are entitled to 18 months paid leave from the government. There is also subsidized child care and flexible work hours to accommodate working families.
GREAT BRITAIN

Fertility rate: 1.84

Policies: In 2007, the government extended paid maternity leave from 26 to 39 weeks. The measure also allows fathers up to 26 weeks of unpaid paternity leave. But child care remains expensive, and a 2007 report by Workingmums.com found that 9 out of 10 British mothers said it was difficult to get a job with enough flexibility when they decided to return to work.
SPAIN

Fertility rate: 1.38

Policies: A historic bias exists against pro-fertility policies. However, the leftist government of Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero is encouraging companies to offer child care facilities and announced last year a grant of nearly $4,000 for babies, replacing the current grant of $700 for the third child, depending on one's income level.
GERMANY

Fertility rate: 1.32

Policies: The government offers 14 weeks maternity leave and parental leave of up to 36 months - pay is variable. Day care is expensive and scarce - a problem the government is trying to resolve. No cash incentives for children.
ITALY

Fertility rate: 1.32

Policies: As in Germany, there is a dearth of affordable day care. The government offers a one-time payment of $1,500 for having children.
 

[Prpavi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Japan
https://www.bostonfed.org/economic/conf/conf46/conf46k.pdf

tl;dr:
More deaths than births.

I am aware of demographic problems in Japan, "my what?" was referred to closed borders.

If by nationalistic and traditional approach you mean an alarming percentage of young (30+yo) japanese men and women never even had physical contact with the person of opposite _(or same) sex and aren't even interested in doing so because they are pursuing careers in corporations and refuse to bring up children because they are a burden (sounds quite western to me), rather than great living standard, great healthcare and great food than ok.

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Everything costs money. Importing foreign workers cost money. Recently looked at how much the money the 2015 mass-immigration is going to cost Denmark and Germany and it's quite a lot, even the optimistic projections. Germany's entire surplus growth last year, or something like that. Under 1% of GDP, but it's still a lot of money and a similar amount could be used for example to make it more viable for German couples to reproduce.

Despite the cost, incentivizing women to have more children have historically been a sound investment. Russia and China is doing it right now, most of Europe did it after the war, Iran did it after the Iran-Iraq war (the amount of young people is why we are having the current very positive secular, democratic development in Iran). It's usually a faster, more effective and safer way compared to importing a work force, especially from the developing world.

Without mentioning that stealing the work force of third world countries won't help them to develop either. It's a lose-lose situation.

[Leshma]

Japanese need lebensraum for their population to grow further. At least their old folks aren't wrinkled, diseased mess at age of 60 like in my country which is full of old people as well. Just look at Hideo Kojima, he's 52 and seemed like a boy for a long time. Bunch of people like him in Japan, thanks to their culture which promotes healthy eating and living.

[Angantyr]

I recently read that the expulsion of Germans from 1944 to 1950, the 'transfer' to Germany of German populations remaining in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, was justified as a desire to create ethnically homogeneous nation-states;

The creation of ethnically homogeneous nation states in Central and Eastern Europe[28] was presented as the key reason for the official decisions of the Potsdam and previous Allied conferences as well as the resulting expulsions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%9350%29


Btw, it's interesting how Germans chose to stay home and rebuild after WWII, despite massive destruction, millions of dead, mass-rapes and looting, unconditional surrender, losing large parts of land, being split into two and divided among the conquerors. And Germans managed to rebuild, perhaps stronger than ever. And the same goes for Japan. Compare that for a moment to the refugee situation right now in Africa and the Middle-East.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Compare that

Makes no sense at all, our history is so different, we had no civil war then, no religious conflict like that, Islam so different, WWI + II, no fanatics running around chopping heads of your family members, endless list...

[Angantyr]

Migration and connection to the land is viewed very differently (for a variety of reasons) in different cultures in different historical time frames. For example European emigration during the colonial age. Or the Völkerwanderung migration period, where Germanics and Slavs were not only wandering conquerors but also actual refugees, and Greco-Roman people were mostly settled, even after countless destructive invasions. Greco-Roman migrations were during Alexander's conquests, the Diadochi and the Roman Republic/Empire, and their diaspora was after the fall of Constantinople. We are right now living through an Islamic diaspora.

[Molly]

I am aware of demographic problems in Japan, "my what?" was referred to closed borders.

If by nationalistic and traditional approach you mean an alarming percentage of young (30+yo) japanese men and women never even had physical contact with the person of opposite _(or same) sex and aren't even interested in doing so because they are pursuing careers in corporations and refuse to bring up children because they are a burden (sounds quite western to me), rather than great living standard, great healthcare and great food than ok.

You're always gonna be non-Japanese for the Japanese, no matter how long you live in Japan... not even allowed to stay if not qualified and part of the workforce, far from being equally respected. I'd call that nationalistic.
Work ethics and the within laying mindset "Well-being of the cooperation being more important than the well-being of a single worker" is the traditional factor in the equation.

Both leading to a decline of the general population due to various results of the two above.

At least that's what two Japanese exchange students pointed out when talking to them. But what do they know, right?

[Paul]

Maybe their dishonourable views were why they wanted them out of glorious Nippon.