Iraq falling appart

[Murmillus_Prime]

So, this guy had access to top-level secret stuff, is just babbling it out on TV or whatever... and yet somehow none of that stuff has come to pass. Yes, i feel dumber now, thanks. 

"This guy", is General Wesley Clark former NATO commander, fuckwit. Never come to pass? What universe are you living in? Iraq was never invaded by NATO? The Gaddafi government wasn't overthrown in Libya by NATO airstrikes and Western funded jihadis? The U.S isn't mulling airstrikes on Syrian soil and putting boots on the ground, after giving millions in aid and equipment to the so-called "moderate" rebels? Somalia isn't being attacked via drone by the U.S? Iran hasn't had harsh sanctions placed on it for years by the West now despite no evidence of nuclear weaponry? Sudan didn't split in two in 2011, another nation filled with valuable resources like oil and gold? Oh and not forgetting Lebanon, the north of which is involved in sectarian fighting, the Sunni-Jihadi's supporting the Syrian "rebellion" and ISIS attacking Shiite and Alawi Lebanese communities and visa versa.

Sure you can argue conflicts in the region have other causes, other elements and dimensions, but the West IS complicit through NGO's, direct and indirect military action from airstrikes to giving arms and aid to militarist warring factions within these nations. The key about his admission in this video is that he was given this information 9 days after 9/11. 9/11 the trigger, excuse for American aggression. If you don't understand the geopolitical reality of the region and the Wests complicity in meddling in it then that's down to your own lack of understanding of the reality of the situation. I believe the only reason the plan so far has not worked out as planned, (to be achieved within a 5 year window) was our governments underestimating the publics ability to disseminate alternate views amongst themselves from the internet and their opposition to further military involvement abroad. But that's not to say the agenda is off the books because it's still unfolding in front of the eyes of the world. Our NATO member governments have attempted to undermine our ability to disseminate truth by silencing individuals such as Chelsea Manning, attempted silencing of Julian Assange, whom is now suffering ill health due to the siege imposed on the Ecuadorian Embassy in which he seeks refuge and of course the attempted stifling of Edward Snowden.

But of course go back to living in your own universe where jihadi's spring up from thin air and Russia is the big bad wolf, and the Americans are the humanitarian white knights to save the world. You feel dumber? That's probably not possible. The only way for you is up, you can't get any dumber.

[Tovi]

I gave up with those brainwashed kids. They need a world easy to understand, with good guys and bad guys. How do you think we sent millions people to death a century ago ?

We know what the Empire is planning in Syria and Ukraine. But what can we really do against it. They can say any bullshit they want, a vast majority of people just don't care and believe politicians as long as they have money in the bank and food in the fridge.

[Murmillus_Prime]

I gave up with those brainwashed kids. They need a world easy to understand, with good guys and bad guys. How do you think we sent millions people to death a century ago ?

We know what the Empire is planning in Syria and Ukraine. But what can we really do against it. They can say any bullshit they want, a vast majority of people just don't care and believe TV as long as they have money in the bank and food to eat.

They wouldn't know the truth if it was smashing them in the face. Even when evidence is coming straight from the horses mouth they disregard its credibility.

[Tovi]

They wouldn't know the truth if it was smashing them in the face. Even when evidence is coming straight from the horses mouth they disregard its credibility.

Because this reality is much more comfortable. As long as they are not involved directly.

Look at europeans : they don't care about sanctions against Russia, except when they loose money in their own business. Then they whine to receive subventions. But none will blame the stupid and agressive european diplomacy.

[Xant]

I don't think has anyone posted this "gem" here yet have they? But of course, there's no big plan or agenda or anything.. Right Kafeine, Christo, Xant?.. Dumbfucks. This is what the U.S is capable of in the M.E, and easily capable of in East Europe.

Murmillus is one of those dull-witted men who continually confuse ardour with insight.

[Christo]

I gave up with those brainwashed kids.

They wouldn't know the truth if it was smashing them in the face.

Good. Now kiss

[Angantyr]

US policy in the Middle-East is not controversial and a matter for debate for only the most casual of observers.

The key to understanding the policies is not from declared populistic oversimplifications by politicians, but from the National Security Council.
I can recommend Elliot Abrams, a former top National Security Council officer in the Bush White House: http://www.cfr.org/experts/middle-east-israel-human-rights/elliott-abrams/b1567

The overall Grand Strategy remains unchanged from this declassified security council document:

FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES, 1958–1960
VOLUME XII, NEAR EAST REGION; IRAQ; IRAN; ARABIAN PENINSULA, DOCUMENT 5

STATEMENT BY THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL OF LONG-RANGE U.S. POLICY TOWARD THE NEAR EAST

General Considerations

1. The Near East is of great strategic, political, and economic importance to the Free World. The area contains the greatest petroleum resources in the world and essential facilities for the transit of military forces and Free World commerce. It also contains the Holy Places of the Christian, Jewish, and Moslem worlds and thereby exerts religious and cultural influences affecting people everywhere. The security interests of the United States would be critically endangered if the Near East should fall under Soviet influence or control. The strategic resources are of such importance to the Free World, particularly Western Europe, that it is in the security interest of the United States to make every effort to insure that these resources will be available and will be used for strengthening the Free World. The geographical position of the Near East makes the area a stepping-stone toward the strategic resources of Africa.

2. Current conditions and political trends in the Near East are inimical to Western interests. In the eyes of the majority of Arabs the United States appears to be opposed to the realization of the goals of Arab nationalism. They believe that the United States is seeking to protect its interest in Near East oil by supporting the status quo and opposing political or economic progress, and that the United States is intent upon maneuvering the Arab states into a position in which they will be committed to fight in a World War against the Soviet Union. The USSR, on the other hand, has managed successfully to represent itself to most Arabs as favoring the realization of the goals of Arab nationalism and as being willing to support the Arabs in their efforts to attain those goals without a quid pro quo. Largely as a result of these comparative positions, the prestige of the United States and of the West has declined in the Near East while Soviet influence has greatly increased. The principal points of difficulty which the USSR most successfully exploits are: the Arab-Israeli dispute; Arab aspirations for self-determination and unity; widespread belief that the United States desires to keep the Arab world disunited and is committed to work with “reactionary” elements to that end; the Arab attitude toward the East-West struggle; U.S. support of its Western “colonial” allies; and problems of trade and economic development.

3. The U.S. role in the United Nations and elsewhere in the circumstances surrounding the emergence of the State of Israel, subsequent U.S. official and private economic assistance to Israel, and U.S. political support of Israel, are the primary bases for criticism of the United States in the Arab world. Extremist Arabs call for the extinction of Israel by force, but the containment and isolation of Israel is the general Arab objective, because the fear of Israeli expansionism pervades the Arab world. Israel seeks to establish itself as a permanent entity in the Near East, viable both territorially and economically, in the context of the fulfillment of its self-ordained mission to maintain a sovereign Zionist state, and to “ingather the exiles”, and bringing a majority of the Jews of the world to live in Israel. Since about 1952, the USSR has been a partisan of the Arabs against Israel. In 1950 the United States joined with Britain and France in a Tripartite Declaration to the effect that the three Governments would seek to prevent an arms race in the area and that, should the three Governments find that any of the Near East states was preparing to violate frontiers or armistice lines, the three Governments would, consistent with their obligations as members of the United Nations, immediately take action, both within and outside the United Nations, to prevent such violation.9 The United States has adhered to the principles of that Declaration, but the British and French in fact disavowed it at the time of the Suez invasion. - https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1958-60v12/d5

[Murmillus_Prime]

US policy in the Middle-East is not controversial and a matter for debate for only the most casual of observers.

The key to understanding the policies is not from declared populistic oversimplifications by politicians, but from the National Security Council.
I can recommend Elliot Abrams, a former top National Security Council officer in the Bush White House: http://www.cfr.org/experts/middle-east-israel-human-rights/elliott-abrams/b1567

The overall Grand Strategy remains unchanged from this declassified security council document:

It looks to be quite out of date too, references to the Soviet Union and its expansion into the M.E, and the apparent importance in the region to the so called "Free World" under U.S auspices. When in reality the importance in the region to the West primarily benefits Western corporations and businesses far more than the nations in region, and the peoples of the West. Our governments, our apparent democracies have been rid over roughshod by corporate interests and yet politicians still have the gall to claim we live in a "Free World". Where is the freedom for voting for a government that fails to deliver its promises, fails to run the country tactfully while failing to adhere to the politics the ruling party was purported to have stood for. Governments which embark on reckless and wasteful military campaigns through decisions made by an undemocratic geopolitical alliance (NATO) that no one voted for, which then goes around removing moderate threats and replacing them with more severe threats. Our governments whom bend laws and acts to benefit corporate interest and not public interests, putting profit before people and corporations before the public whilst pursuing a narrow field military agenda that doesn't seem to change no matter which of the two only viable choices the public votes in does not represent a purported "Free world" in my eyes.

[Tovi]

You can switch "Soviet Union" with "any resistance to the US global hegemony". Including anybody trying to sell its oil in another currency than US dollar ( Libya/Irak/Iran tried...).

It's not a moral judgement, every empires always tried to defend their dominant position.

http://scgnews.com/the-geopolitics-of-world-war-iii

[Lt_Anders]

Holy fuck, you guys sound like my IRL buddy just on steroids.

For all the "World Hegemony planning" that these countries do, they tend to fuck up a whole hell of a lot. Honestly, no one cares about the M.E. if they would just stay "over there." I know many Americans wouldn't give jack shit to Isreal if given the choice, cause no one fucking cares. But then they went and made us care, like the Japs did in '41 and Americans are one of those countries that it's better to let sleep than actually do anything.

Also: Current president and Policy makers are doing a wonderful job of breaking our country right now. Sure, Global Hegemony...why don't you guys come to America first before you shout your shit from behind computer screens across the ocean where you can be "safe." How bout you move to China, you'd be perfect there, minus all your conspiratorial shit.

[Angantyr]

Yes, Lt_Anders, public opinion runs contrary to state policy, this is true of most countries.

@Murmi, that's why I wrote 'overall Grand Strategy', ie.  the strategic, political, and economic importance of the Middle-East remains. The 'Soviet Union' and 'Free World' are euphemisms.

[Lt_Anders]

How many of you believe 9/11 was an inside job, and what was it that convinced you of it?

[Angantyr]

There's no evidence that it was and a lot that it wasn't.

Conspiracies are essentially a waste of time. Especially with such a rich offical record.

[Murmillus_Prime]

How many of you believe 9/11 was an inside job, and what was it that convinced you of it?

Trying to derail the topic at hand?

Regardless of whether it was or was not an inside job, it was certainly an excuse used by the neo-cons to embark on a reckless, wasteful and bloody campaign in the middle-east.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Murmillus is one of those dull-witted men who continually confuse ardour with insight.

You're one of those dull witted worms whom writes off opposing views and perspectives with cheap words and phrases, without trying to understand those views and perspectives. Tell me Xant, what's your view of world events? A wild jihadi appears, wild jihadi breeds and suddenly shit in the Middle-East? Is that your world view?