cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Ujin on October 19, 2011, 10:53:10 pm

Title: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on October 19, 2011, 10:53:10 pm
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on October 19, 2011, 11:00:45 pm
Most.....retarded.....frustrating.....shit.........ever!

Now I wonder, did the Warband devs actually put this in as a feature or was it some unpleasant side effect?

If the former is the case, what where they thinking? Hey, let's implement that when a polearm hits someone his character spasms like a moron. So that you can sidestep and keep hitting and stunning him! That's so cool cause you can kill someone without him being able to do anything about it! It's obviously a realistic representation of some effect pole mounted weapons have on the human body.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 19, 2011, 11:03:18 pm
no.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: CaptainQuantum on October 19, 2011, 11:05:40 pm
+1 for removal.

Polestun was intended as a stagger for pike support, but they didn't fix it for non-support weapons for some reason. Polestun should probably stay on pikes and long spears but not for slashing poles.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 19, 2011, 11:07:28 pm
+1 for removal.

Polestun was intended as a stagger for pike support, but they didn't fix it for non-support weapons for some reason. Polestun should probably stay on pikes and long spears but not for slashing poles.

Nope should be gone from all poles, especially pikes and long spears. They're the most annoying.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 19, 2011, 11:14:39 pm
I can agree to it being removed from Poleaxes and LHB. Supportive weapons like spears should still have it, or they would be made useless.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on October 19, 2011, 11:21:50 pm
long spear is a deadly weapon as it is, without the polestun too. I dislike polestun because a gla spammer can do two deadly hits in a row on you, but i also dislike polestun because in a melee clusterfuck, if you get hit by a longspear, you're dead , unless you have crapton of loomed armor and IF.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 19, 2011, 11:24:45 pm
Yes but isnt that what the long spear is made for, supporting infantry? Would be fun to see hoplites without stun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on October 19, 2011, 11:27:42 pm
What the hell, you guys actually think polestun makes sense? It is ridiculous! How is adding a weird ass stagger that takes a full second to one group of weapons a proper feature or a good way to balance something?

Longspears are useful without the stagger, and even then stagger is fuckin lame. Thats exactly the same as 250 wpf guys spamming you without you being able to return a hit. It takes skill out of the game to replace it with being fucked over by borked game mechanics.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on October 19, 2011, 11:30:45 pm
Less exaggeration, more facts.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 19, 2011, 11:32:58 pm
Well if they remove polestun many weapons such as spears will be made pretty much useless. Like i said, i can agree to stun being removed from High damaging weapons such as axes and blunt weapons, while spears that are made for support should still keep it.

So lets see how it ends up. 2h still have the superior animation while polearms have polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vexus on October 19, 2011, 11:33:56 pm
Just remove stun for fast weapons slow pole weapons + their animations are already in a disadvantage vs 2h animations.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Siiem on October 19, 2011, 11:36:02 pm
It was fun today when someone hit me once with a fast spear at which time I was stun locked, just hit consecutively, doesn't matter if a weapon has shitty damage when the speed rating is so high you get locked in a sort of force field of doom.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 19, 2011, 11:40:59 pm
Remove stuns from spears, give them +5 pierce damage  8-) deal?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 20, 2011, 12:29:45 am
stun just needs to go its bullshit and everyone agree´s unless your a biased sob...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on October 20, 2011, 12:38:47 am
stun just needs to go its bullshit and everyone agree´s unless your a biased sob...
Like Joxer who minus'ed my first post lol.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 20, 2011, 12:40:56 am
Like Joxer who minus'ed my first post lol.

He minus'ed mine as well  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 20, 2011, 12:42:39 am
It was introduced as a counter to turtles in the beta, also, because many whiney bitches did not like archers pulling a scimitar and owning the melee.

It was a bad idea then, it still is now.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Bobthehero on October 20, 2011, 12:45:12 am
ban he
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BranStark on October 20, 2011, 02:19:26 am
It was fun today when someone hit me ones with a fast spear at which time I was stun locked, just hit consecutively, doesn't matter if a weapon has shitty damage when the speed rating is so high you get locked in a sort of force field of doom.

This shit pisses me off so much. Can't tell you how many becmy old friends do the same shit. Hit you once with a side swing, then your stunned, then they just keep spamming it until you die. Nothing you can do about it either, because you're fucking perma-stunned by a spamming asshole with a bec.

So retarded and unbalanced.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 20, 2011, 06:03:45 am
Remove stuns from spears, give them +5 pierce damage  8-) deal?
^this is a great example

personally i never so pole stun as a problem usually when i  ever got locked they were just superior at hit slashing and footwork

but when ever i did any other way it was with pikes and long spears

i am primarily a pole arm and maybe i am a little biased but quite frankly it seems 2h usually are the top of the list compared to poles.very rarely do i meet a pole i consider a threat and when i do i have seen them wreck just as hard with a 2h or there using the poles i have mentioned

if you take out something from it you need to put something into it

i think a fair trade would be to fix the stab animation that is abused severely by mostly pole and 2h its annoying as hell its the main reason why long spears pikes and owl pikes are so good.and to be out stabbed by a 2h is absurd

I WOULD LOVE to see pole stun removed i would like to see how bad poles crutch on it.personally i crutch on the length of my weapon i would love to see how much of a factor this would be if taken from me
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: HarunYahya on October 20, 2011, 06:31:40 am
Just REMOVE the polestun !
It is just
(click to show/hide)
annoying.
There is no point on supporting polestun with "reality facts" we are playing a game and this feature fucks it up.
2 handers topping the scoreboards doesn't mean that 2handers are overpowered.Means more skilled people play with 2handers, more nooblord bundle of stickss play with polearms.If you play good, you can top the scoreboard even with a 1 handed wooden sword.
No need to buff polearm damage/speeds also.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Lets check pros/cons.


RESULT
THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE STUN EFFECT ON POLEARMS .
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 20, 2011, 06:58:11 am
well 2h have better feint animation and surprisingly have better stab length due to the animation (2h held at handle poles held in center of staff)actually now that i think about it have better animation in general to be able to do footwork hit slashes feints etc way better then poles

and the argument saying only skilled players play 2h is a bad argument i could just as easy say
 "no the only reason you guys are getting your ass kicked is because their good players"
^but that is a horse of a different color and "sorta" off topic lol
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on October 20, 2011, 08:04:24 am
+1, the polestun is too big of an advantage.

Hit, polestun, sidestep, free hit, gay
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: justme on October 20, 2011, 08:15:43 am
Remove stuns from spears, give them +5 pierce damage  8-) deal?

*.*

deal :)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on October 20, 2011, 08:36:45 am
Reduce polestun time. Not enough to double hit people by yourself, but enough to stun the enemy a bit for your team. i guess that would let the support weapons keep their effect, but make the dueling polearms lose their ability to double hit (which is insane, talking as a pure polearm dude)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 20, 2011, 10:12:38 am
I HATE IT I HATE IT SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on October 20, 2011, 10:41:44 am
well 2h have better feint animation and surprisingly have better stab length due to the animation (2h held at handle poles held in center of staff)actually now that i think about it have better animation in general to be able to do footwork hit slashes feints etc way better then poles

and the argument saying only skilled players play 2h is a bad argument i could just as easy say
 "no the only reason you guys are getting your ass kicked is because their good players"
^but that is a horse of a different color and "sorta" off topic lol
I find polearm animations a lot more annoying, they are just borked.

Am I the only one who picks a  fight with greatsworder over any top tier polearm anyday? I find the polearm animations ridiculously confusing. I always get killed by double attacks.

When a polearm hits your block, it bounces back in way that almost exactly resembles the animation of chambering a new attack (to avoid confusion, chambering an attack is preparing an attack. Holding LMB is chambering an attack, the other thing is called chamber blocking). Because of that I always fail to spot double attacks or hiltslashes, cause I just assume its just the bounceback. And than suddenly, bam your dead.

Oh also, polearms can hiltslash just as easy.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 20, 2011, 10:55:47 am
hmm i always thought they were far more easy to read

but that is just me i guess

same with thing with 2h for me i sometimes mix their up and stab attacks for some reason(like i think there gonna stab but the overhead idk y)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on October 20, 2011, 11:08:47 am
I allways wonder why people talk about 'polestun'. There isn't a specific stun for polearms, people only say it because polearms are mostly heavier so the effect occurs often when a pole weapon is involved, or not?

Remove it anyway. Though I think it was a great idea, practice- and gamebalance-wise it has only drawbacks. Most heavy weapons have enough advantages like reach and damage over light weapons, they don't additionaly need stun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 20, 2011, 11:11:06 am
There isn't a specific stun for polearms

Yes there is.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Casimir on October 20, 2011, 11:18:44 am
If i remember correctly all polearms which dont have knockdown have the ability to stun for up to 1 second, although this is chance based and there is a cool down.

Other than that it is mostly the weapon weight.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 20, 2011, 11:20:33 am
If i remember correctly all polearms which dont have knockdown have the ability to stun for up to 1 second, although this is chance based and there is a cool down.

Other than that it is mostly the weapon weight.

Yes, all polearms that don't have the knockdown ability use a different animation for the stun (from the other weapons), and that's the polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Casimir on October 20, 2011, 11:47:33 am
I dont know the numbers behind it but 'real' polestun isnt meant to be that common afaik


However, I might be completly wrong.


I will shut up.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 20, 2011, 11:48:48 am
I think the polestun goes from 0.6 to 0.9 or so, IIRC. Some dev posted the numbers a while back.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dan lol on October 20, 2011, 01:44:27 pm
Paul posted the numbers, theres a one in three chance iirc that you get hit for the retardedly long stun animation, and thats the one that you dont have time to attack back in. Get rid of that one and all will be well.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 20, 2011, 04:05:48 pm
Reduce the stun time, dont remove it completely.
Just REMOVE the polestun !
It is just
(click to show/hide)
annoying.
There is no point on supporting polestun with "reality facts" we are playing a game and this feature fucks it up.
2 handers topping the scoreboards doesn't mean that 2handers are overpowered.Means more skilled people play with 2handers, more nooblord bundle of stickss play with polearms.If you play good, you can top the scoreboard even with a 1 handed wooden sword.
No need to buff polearm damage/speeds also.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Lets check pros/cons.

  • 2 hander has more swing damage.Poleaxe has more stab damage.
  • Speed is same
  • 2 hander has higher reach.Poleaxe has bonus against shield
  • Poleaxe has stun effect.2 hander has nothing to compensate against that !

RESULT
THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE STUN EFFECT ON POLEARMS .


2h's animation does compensate against polestun, maybe not entirely tho since a stun can give a free hit, but a simple nerf to the stun might balance it out. Also 2h thrust can be ridiculous dont forget that, while the polearm thrust has a very short reach.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 20, 2011, 04:38:29 pm
But at the same time, polearm thrust can be instant.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on October 20, 2011, 04:46:15 pm
So there is a stun for all weapons, and a differently calculated for polearms? Or only polearms?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 20, 2011, 04:47:43 pm
And 2h's thrust can glance but then get a instant swing after it before the enemy can attack back, which is a bug that should've been fixed by now im not sure tho.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on October 20, 2011, 04:49:17 pm
So there is a stun for all weapons, and a differently calculated for polearms? Or only polearms?

Polearms have their own stun, which in some cases gives you another free attack.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: San on October 20, 2011, 05:11:53 pm
I think getting a free hit from the attacker is just a small part. The part I'm worried about is that it trivializes getting hits in for anyone in the area.

Even a bad angle hit can give stun, and still give another person more than enough time to circle around the guy, or stunlock with 1-2 second (huge) timing window. Polestun isn't that bad 1v1, it's actually pretty cool imo.

But I don't think a weapon capable of comboing by itself should make its way to battle where there are obviously other people present. With an awlpike for example, there are times where I wouldn't mind doing no damage at all, since the weapon stun is just way too useful anyways.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 20, 2011, 05:18:56 pm
And 2h's thrust can glance but then get a instant swing after it before the enemy can attack back, which is a bug that should've been fixed by now im not sure tho.

This isn't really an advantage comparable to instant thrusts that damage and polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 20, 2011, 05:43:46 pm
The instant thrusts barely deal any damage tho, sometimes they get a good hit but mostly it is a just a weak hit. I agree on polestun being a little unbalanced when it sometimes gives you a second free hit, but usually the second hit has to be a hilt slash, and those dont deal much damage, anyways dont remove the polestun but simply nerf it alittle. I'd like to keep it because it makes the polearms special, so you either choose Good animation or polestun. Also 2h weapons look alot cooler than polearms, so polearms being a little better than 2h is a fair trade for the looks ;)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 20, 2011, 05:58:50 pm
The instant thrusts barely deal any damage tho, sometimes they get a good hit but mostly it is a just a weak hit. I agree on polestun being a little unbalanced when it sometimes gives you a second free hit, but usually the second hit has to be a hilt slash, and those dont deal much damage, anyways dont remove the polestun but simply nerf it alittle. I'd like to keep it because it makes the polearms special, so you either choose Good animation or polestun. Also 2h weapons look alot cooler than polearms, so polearms being a little better than 2h is a fair trade for the looks ;)
meh  nonsense.
It's possible for a monk with a staff to stunlock a knight in full plate, leaving him no chance to block. Much as I like doing it, it is fucking cheap.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 20, 2011, 06:12:55 pm
The instant thrusts barely deal any damage tho, sometimes they get a good hit but mostly it is a just a weak hit. I agree on polestun being a little unbalanced when it sometimes gives you a second free hit, but usually the second hit has to be a hilt slash, and those dont deal much damage, anyways dont remove the polestun but simply nerf it alittle. I'd like to keep it because it makes the polearms special, so you either choose Good animation or polestun. Also 2h weapons look alot cooler than polearms, so polearms being a little better than 2h is a fair trade for the looks ;)

The insta thrusts deal same damage as any other thrust, provided it doesn't glance. Its true strength is in letting you get off another hit. The hiltslash bit is nonsense, hiltslashes deal good damage.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Okkam on October 20, 2011, 07:10:03 pm
good suggestion, remove polestun then remove half polearm weapons. Just another step to shining knight superiority.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 20, 2011, 08:03:08 pm
fine I'll make an irritating trick build.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 20, 2011, 08:38:53 pm
Well instant polethrusts take some time to lauch aswell, many people have the time to block it. Atleast what i have seen, and i blame the armoursoak system for the instant thrust hits. I like the soak system, but it has its cons aswell.
Polearms have a instant hit thrust, 2h have a everlasting thrust animation which deals damage to the very end of the animation.

This will probably be my last post in this topic because i am pretty much just repeating my self now :/ IMO the polestun should still remain but with a nerfed duration so that stunlocking is not possible.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on October 20, 2011, 09:19:29 pm
Well instant polethrusts take some time to lauch aswell, many people have the time to block it. Atleast what i have seen, and i blame the armoursoak system for the instant thrust hits. I like the soak system, but it has its cons aswell.
Polearms have a instant hit thrust, 2h have a everlasting thrust animation which deals damage to the very end of the animation.

This will probably be my last post in this topic because i am pretty much just repeating my self now :/ IMO the polestun should still remain but with a nerfed duration so that stunlocking is not possible.

(click to show/hide)

polearm thrust is pure evil in the hands of a player with good footwork  , people turn around like ballerinas  and doing max speed bonus with instant hit boxes , as much as i dont like the 2h slowmo thrust , you can see it coming ,   

 Watch karthofel murdering people with her awlpike  and see what i mean

 
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 20, 2011, 11:09:24 pm
meh  nonsense.
It's possible for a monk with a staff to stunlock a knight in full plate, leaving him no chance to block. Much as I like doing it, it is fucking cheap.
i do that quite often with a qstaff but i think its mainly do to the speed of the q staff that makes it possible but you have to hit them like 10 times

polearm thrust is pure evil in the hands of a player with good footwork  , people turn around like ballerinas  and doing max speed bonus with instant hit boxes , as much as i dont like the 2h slowmo thrust , you can see it coming ,   

 Watch karthofel murdering people with her awlpike  and see what i mean

 
i know potato, he is very good.from what i understand he is from another mod that's with bayonets so hes quite skilled with stab attacks

but 2h are WORSE they can do the same EXACT thing as poles but its waaaay longer damn  near non escapable and it pisses me off so bad and unlike poles if they miss they have a longer window to "re adjust" by moving their attack sideways and tapping you which somehow makes the attack do FULLLLLLLL damage (maybe cus i see it coming it makes me so mad :| )

so all in all both classes can abuse this(sometimes 1h but only when there REALLY in your face) but 2h are more crutch lol stab compared to poles(as in its more easy for 2h) which have to do ridiculous stupid spins in order to do it like 2h
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Camaris on October 20, 2011, 11:26:31 pm
Dont know why people cry about 2h stab all the time.
First it was to long and fast, then only to fast, now to slow and long.
If it will be short and slow people will still be crying. They would even cry if there only was the miaodao.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on October 21, 2011, 12:03:03 am
What about this sensible solution.

First of all, reduce the polestun to what 1h/2h has now. THEN reduce 1h/2h so that it is a bit less than the polestun. I think it was 0.6 and 0.8? The new numbers would then be 0.5 and 0.6. Reasonable?

REMOVE polestun and give them the one the other has on MOST polearms. Basically leave it for any polearms that is being used with a shield These weapons have around 30% speed and damage reduction. These are the only weapons that makes sense in a gameplay way, to have a longer stun than others. You lose speed and damage (no way to stun-lock enemies by yourself) but gain reach and stun. I don't really see any reason for them not to have it.

About pikes/long spear/halberd/bill. I think these weapons should have it too, but not sure. If it was the current stun time and not the changed one I proposed, I say no, but with the new ones it might make sense.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Razzen on October 21, 2011, 12:25:55 am
How about just keeping the polestun on some weapons that would make sense to even have polestun, The spears might have a bit polestun, it would make a bit sense for a hoplite to have it for an example or maybe a pikeman too, but somebody with a long hafted blade that can hit faster than a 1her almost is just stupid.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 21, 2011, 12:30:23 am
The thing about instant thrust is, to be frank, bullshit.

While the polearms can hit with force earlier in the animation, if you try a right-on instathrust it's gonna glance. Period.

However, it is possible to get of a very fast (read: not instant) stab by turning, but then that is true for the other types of weapons aswell. Although, admittedly, some 2h need a tad increase of their stab damage to reduce the amount of random glancing.

But this complaining about hiltslashing and the thrustglance-to-swing techniques is also bullshit imo; they're not that hard to counter and it's nice to have some things to break the "block-attack-block"-pattern.

Also: Again, NO weapons should have polestun. It's just silly.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on October 21, 2011, 12:39:49 am
The thing about instant thrust is, to be frank, bullshit.

While the polearms can hit with force earlier in the animation, if you try a right-on instathrust it's gonna glance. Period.

However, it is possible to get of a very fast (read: not instant) stab by turning, but then that is true for the other types of weapons aswell. Although, admittedly, some 2h need a tad increase of their stab damage to reduce the amount of random glancing.

But this complaining about hiltslashing and the thrustglance-to-swing techniques is also bullshit imo; they're not that hard to counter and it's nice to have some things to break the "block-attack-block"-pattern.

Also: Again, NO weapons should have polestun. It's just silly.
Not even spear&shield? Explain...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: MouthnHoof on October 21, 2011, 03:52:05 pm
Most.....retarded.....frustrating.....shit.........ever!

Now I wonder, did the Warband devs actually put this in as a feature or was it some unpleasant side effect?

If the former is the case, what where they thinking? Hey, let's implement that when a polearm hits someone his character spasms like a moron. So that you can sidestep and keep hitting and stunning him! That's so cool cause you can kill someone without him being able to do anything about it! It's obviously a realistic representation of some effect pole mounted weapons have on the human body.
Lets see if I recall this correctly from WB beta...

All testers agreed that spears (in 2H grip) sucked and the game engine could not represent this style of fighting. The problem was that the spear had only 1 viable attack and the swings were very weak. Increasing spear speeds or swing damage was not a good idea. The devs tried a few things, for example giving spears KD when hitting the legs, etc to represent swipes and tackles moves, but that did not work out. Eventually they went with the stun to give spears the opportunity to hit with a swing for low damage and reposition for a stab.

That was with SPEARS in mind and later slow long axes, not monstrous and fast poleaxes and Becs that we have in cRPG. It was not an ideal solution, but it helped 2H spears a bit - the problem is that it applies across the board to all polearms and I think that also to 1H-polarm.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackCorsair_RS on October 21, 2011, 03:57:27 pm
Thanks in advance.

also remove plz crush through blocks to hammers
remove charged strike from lances
remove blocks and chambers
make same stats for all weapons
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on October 21, 2011, 04:03:46 pm
also remove plz crush through blocks to hammers
remove charged strike from lances
remove blocks and chambers
make same stats for all weapons
Don't be an idiot, remove yourself from this forum.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 21, 2011, 05:06:07 pm
Lets see if I recall this correctly from WB beta...

All testers agreed that spears (in 2H grip) sucked and the game engine could not represent this style of fighting. The problem was that the spear had only 1 viable attack and the swings were very weak. Increasing spear speeds or swing damage was not a good idea. The devs tried a few things, for example giving spears KD when hitting the legs, etc to represent swipes and tackles moves, but that did not work out. Eventually they went with the stun to give spears the opportunity to hit with a swing for low damage and reposition for a stab.

That was with SPEARS in mind and later slow long axes, not monstrous and fast poleaxes and Becs that we have in cRPG. It was not an ideal solution, but it helped 2H spears a bit - the problem is that it applies across the board to all polearms and I think that also to 1H-polarm.

You do not recall correctly.
All testers did NOT agree.
And it wasn't spears needed help, it was Vaegir archers pulling out scimitars and owning Nords.
The justifications came later.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: San on October 23, 2011, 03:41:43 am
Not even spear&shield? Explain...

Just make spear&shield better/more fun without polestun so everyone's happy.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 23, 2011, 04:32:26 am
What's wrong with spear and shield? I really don't get it; use your shield for groupfights and drop it when duelling ensures.

Why do you want to fight with spear+shield in 1v1 so desperately? (Been watching too much "300"?)

The main thing that keeps shielders balanced is that they lack reach. We all know how dangerous long weapons are in the hands of good blockers. Give people a 1v1 style with a long weapon and autoblock... You get the point.

Spear + shield is an allright class because it's versitile. Having autoblock + long reach is great in an organized group, and spears are good 1v1 weapons.

While after polestun is removed looking onto other stats might be necessary, it's just a silly mechanic imo.

Giving "free" hits shouldn't be part of the melee game.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: San on October 23, 2011, 08:02:35 am
@Dezilagel

I'm not sure if you were responding to me, but I was just proposing a simple fix to make up for lack of polestun, otherwise spear+shield might not be able to attack fast enough even if they hit the opponent.

In other words, keep the class interesting without polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Furax on October 23, 2011, 10:13:57 am
Polestun is retarded, I can in my 20+ weighted gear 140ish wpf, get a free hit with my poleaxe 6/10 times after ive landed the first one.

And that free hit often means the death for the poor staggered bastard=/
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Osiris on October 23, 2011, 12:35:52 pm
Its fuc*ing retarded. an agi spammer can hit me once with a normal hafted blade and thats me stunned until i die. wtf is that shit
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vodner on October 23, 2011, 12:57:07 pm
Its fuc*ing retarded. an agi spammer can hit me once with a normal hafted blade and thats me stunned until i die. wtf is that shit
It is my understanding that there's only a 50% chance of getting staggered per polearm hit. Unless you are exceptionally unlucky (or you go down in 2-3 hits), you shouldn't find yourself stunlocked.

I'm not a huge fan of any sort of stun mechanic in games, but for the moment polestun balances out the lackluster animations polearms have.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Mustikki on October 23, 2011, 01:33:32 pm
You guys understand cmpxchg8b plays as 27 strenght polearm spammer?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on October 23, 2011, 01:39:43 pm
remove the stun or give us polearm catching skill so we can catch the motherfucking pole and put it back into spammers ass.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on October 23, 2011, 02:50:57 pm
remove the lolstab or give us lolstab catching skill so we can catch the motherfucking stab and put it back into spammers ass.

i agree that it can be stupid. missed a block against a bec de corbin, stunned me with 3 consecutive hits, couldnt do anything, died. methinks it sould be reduced
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Frank on October 23, 2011, 02:54:09 pm
remove the stun or give us polearm catching skill so we can catch the motherfucking pole and put it back into spammers ass.

Made my day.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 23, 2011, 05:08:18 pm
It is my understanding that there's only a 50% chance of getting staggered per polearm hit. Unless you are exceptionally unlucky (or you go down in 2-3 hits), you shouldn't find yourself stunlocked.

I'm not a huge fan of any sort of stun mechanic in games, but for the moment polestun balances out the lackluster animations polearms have.
That argument just does not compute.

A competent pole axer won't take mroe then 2-3 hits to kill you.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 23, 2011, 06:15:23 pm
cmp plus meow = Polearm

Fasader = Xbow


= Dont hold your breath while waiting for a 100% balanced cRPG you might die from lack of air....
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on October 24, 2011, 07:32:42 am
You guys understand cmpxchg8b plays as 27 strenght polearm spammer?

This.

Therefore:

no balancing to STR/AGI
no free wpf (weapon master) fix
no polestun removal


We can all QQ in the corner now  :cry:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Greziz on October 24, 2011, 09:01:51 am
Polearms are still plenty lethal without the stun. They rear horses they are reasonably fast and reasonably long for dueling and support. SO why does it need the stun? There is no good reason why a hit from a bec should cause a different stagger than a morning star or a pick no reason a spear should cause a different stun than a wooden sword or similar onehanded weapon. There is most certainly no reason the stab of a spear should cause a different stun than a sword stab they are all hits from a weapon they all transfer kinetic energy and harm in the SAME MANNER! So they should all STUN in the SAME manner.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: v/onMega on October 24, 2011, 12:30:47 pm
Polearm stun is the worst ever implemented feature in a combat game.

It can´t  be explained, regardless of the direction your brain tries to catch up with that nonsense.

Its not justified by bad animations (they ´re freaking allright).
Its not justified by less damage.

It just makes u die to any lowskilled sadact initiating the "Stun-Hit-Stun" out of the third row.

And its getting even worse when obviously skilled players start their "dance".


So please...u changed so much in this game...specially balance whise..... this is the only thing really missing...do it.

P.S: No Polearm deserves polestun....
P.S: Fix that 3rd world, half baked trade sim called strat. thx.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: MouthnHoof on October 24, 2011, 05:24:43 pm
You do not recall correctly.
All testers did NOT agree.
OK not all, there was one that didn't.
Quote
And it wasn't spears needed help, it was Vaegir archers pulling out scimitars and owning Nords.
The justifications came later.
So Nords needed help in general against spamitars so polestun was implemented? Vaegirs also had a spear melee class.

The 2H spear classes were very weak. Initially the spears were made faster, but that just turned then into spam machines. Without any ability to control distance, it meant that most opponents and shielders in particular would simply run up to the spearman, block down (or everything with a shield), worst case get a low damage blow from a swinging spear and proceed to kill them from 0 range. polestun gave spears a chance for a second attack and some short range defense (low damage but at least a minor stun). It was mean for spears - a long stick with a arrow to dagger size tip, not to the guillotine on a stick polearms that we have in CRPG.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 24, 2011, 06:11:39 pm
OK not all, there was one that didn't.So Nords needed help in general against spamitars so polestun was implemented? Vaegirs also had a spear melee class.

The 2H spear classes were very weak. Initially the spears were made faster, but that just turned then into spam machines. Without any ability to control distance, it meant that most opponents and shielders in particular would simply run up to the spearman, block down (or everything with a shield), worst case get a low damage blow from a swinging spear and proceed to kill them from 0 range. polestun gave spears a chance for a second attack and some short range defense (low damage but at least a minor stun). It was mean for spears - a long stick with a arrow to dagger size tip, not to the guillotine on a stick polearms that we have in CRPG.
Hmm.. I did not think it was weak with Gabeed hoboing it up with the HOBOSPEAR, perhaps that came after.
It still was a nonsense argument and remains so, and as such should be removed much like a wart in an obvious place.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 06:13:53 pm
Add poll please.

Topic +1
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Osiris on October 24, 2011, 07:51:45 pm
*fail edit*
remove the damn stun
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on October 25, 2011, 03:31:28 am
poll added.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: John on October 25, 2011, 04:21:18 am
I can tolerate it being on spears, because of their mediocre swings, but it really needs to go for Becs and the like.  There's no reason to give a potential bonus hit for something that's already 30+ pierce/blunt.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 25, 2011, 07:05:44 am
I can tolerate it being on spears, because of their mediocre swings, but it really needs to go for Becs and the like.  There's no reason to give a potential bonus hit for something that's already 30+ pierce/blunt.

Doesnt matter what weapon its on its OP an retarded nonetheless..

So your basically saying its ok for polestun to stay on a 300 lenght weapon?  :o

Or did you meant only the small hoplite spears ?

Either way i voted Yes no weapon deserves free hits on their enemy unless its a unbalanced weapon with knockdown.

What polestun does right now is given free knockdowns on just about every polearm out there.....

Knockdown / polestun = sameshit your arent able to fight back.

HINT: yes tears i read your post even tho your on my ignore list.....  :)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 25, 2011, 07:09:03 am
What polestun does right now is given free knockdowns on just about every polearm out there.....
How does polestun give free knockdowns? Any polearm with knock down or crushthrough does not have polestun...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dan lol on October 25, 2011, 07:25:46 am
so basically, any blunt non-knockdown poleswing should have a chance to stun in order for it to be reasonable. Agree/disagree?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Wraist on October 25, 2011, 07:33:05 am
How does polestun give free knockdowns? Any polearm with knock down or crushthrough does not have polestun...

I think he means that since it gives a stun, it may as well be a knockdown.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 25, 2011, 08:12:16 am
I think he means that since it gives a stun, it may as well be a knockdown.

Ah, I see.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Thucydides on October 25, 2011, 10:43:09 am
Knockdown is less reliable but longer lasting than polestun. Knockdown gives more than one free hit depending on positioning. Comparing knockdown with polestun is silly.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 25, 2011, 11:24:21 am
Comparing knockdown with polestun is silly.

No.

You make your opponent unable to block the next attack after you hit him once thus its basically the samething.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on October 25, 2011, 12:44:55 pm
Knockdown gives 1-2 free hits after initial hit. Stagger gives 0-1. There's a difference.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Siiem on October 25, 2011, 01:03:43 pm
Polestun needs to stay! This coming from a completely unbiased 1h user.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Lech on October 25, 2011, 01:21:34 pm
Polestun needs to stay! This coming from a completely unbiased 1h user.

Who play polearms at the moment with his main :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Siiem on October 25, 2011, 02:10:20 pm
Who play polearms at the moment with his main :lol:

Lies, malicious lies!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 25, 2011, 02:56:45 pm
Spears with less than 200 reach should have the stun, remove it from all others. If not possible to only have stun on spears then they will need a big buff in damage to compensate the loss, or knockdown maybe?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on October 25, 2011, 08:11:08 pm
why not adding crushthrough, knockdown and stun to my goedendag? and also a ranged attack for a better game balance?

remove the fukken stun from all polearms.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 25, 2011, 09:26:30 pm
also a ranged attack for a better game balance?

I would love the ability to throw any weapon. Imagine both side lined up and start tossing swords at each other.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Captain_Kirk on October 25, 2011, 09:33:26 pm
Pike should not have stun but other polearms dont bother me at all.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Penitent on October 25, 2011, 09:51:18 pm
stun is fine.  Have you fought other polearms?  You just block twice if you're stunned.

It balances them against the extra speed (and often reach!) of 2h weapons.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 25, 2011, 09:55:51 pm
derp
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 25, 2011, 10:45:47 pm
stun is fine.  Have you fought other polearms?  You just block twice if you're stunned.

It balances them against the extra speed (and often reach!) of 2h weapons.

you can't block if you're stunned

that is the whole point
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on October 25, 2011, 10:56:24 pm
i think he's talking about stunblock
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 26, 2011, 01:24:50 am
well im primarily a 18/21 pole so im a little biased i suppose(for now at least  :D)

my next gen will 1h or 2h seeing how i just mw'ed my glaive
so i have been making stf's and so far poles are kinda...not a threat?(cant think of a better term)

they suck i wreck them left in right :|.i was a pole for 4 gens and i didnt relise the difference till i played other classes
i DANCE around enemys with a  1h long espada (i suppose the length of the pole slows you down more then i thought)
i destroy with a miaodao  with out any problems(and the stf's were shit agility builds with 12 str i cant wait till i make a 18/21)

quite frankly the only thing that kept me competitive was back peddling ,stun and length of my weapon due to the fact once there in your face  you glance all day and usually cant get to your sweet spot(two people away from them to do the best damage and reduce chance of glancing) so if you remove polestun poles are gonna be wiped out(or be lul stab spin stab queers)
the only ones i deems a serous threat were longspears and the like, they are truly only there to stun you while others beat you to death or be spin stab idiots
and maybe the bec but only if the user was skilled(but that is any weapon so i do not count it)

I REALLY think the best method to stop poles and other classes from being "op" would be to nerf lul stabs and spin stabs.

and dont give me shit about how there suppose to be "support" class...if it cant hold its own and relise on other classes to do its job  its
the definition of nerfed

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerfed
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 26, 2011, 01:31:03 am
polearms are fine, and would be fine without polestun

the reason why you think 1h and 2h are so epic is because you want to believe that, it's always the same thing... 1h going 2h/poles would say those two are easy, and vice versa
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 26, 2011, 01:35:36 am
polearms are fine, and would be fine without polestun

the reason why you think 1h and 2h are so epic is because you want to believe that, it's always the same thing... 1h going 2h/poles would say those two are easy, and vice versa

i believe so much so i am going to make the other classes my main not someone who says "their so op" yet stays to my own build

of course i might go back everyonce and awhile only because my mw glaive but other then that its whatever
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Banok on October 26, 2011, 02:22:01 am
Less exaggeration, more facts.

Thank you.

less bias.

Even when I used LHB I admitted the stun was retarded.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Snoozer on October 26, 2011, 02:24:18 am
that was like the beginning of the thread i had to hit the link to know what you were talking about llol
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: John on October 26, 2011, 09:19:22 am
Doesnt matter what weapon its on its OP an retarded nonetheless..

So your basically saying its ok for polestun to stay on a 300 lenght weapon?  :o

Or did you meant only the small hoplite spears ?

Either way i voted Yes no weapon deserves free hits on their enemy unless its a unbalanced weapon with knockdown.

What polestun does right now is given free knockdowns on just about every polearm out there.....

Knockdown / polestun = sameshit your arent able to fight back.

HINT: yes tears i read your post even tho your on my ignore list.....  :)

Well if it was all up to me...

Polearms shorter than the long spear (except lances) which have low damage blunt swings and rely on their thrusts would keep polestun on their swings (but it would be removed from the actual stabs.)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Uumdi on October 26, 2011, 10:17:53 am
I voted "Yes, remove it" entirely.  I would love to argue about sheer impact with some heavy or blunt polearms, but why wouldn't a morningstar, bardiche, or battle axe stun as well?  I'd also love to lobby for the english bill to keep it, but that's just me being a bundle of sticks because thats what I use, haha

Polearms have pretty weak feints compared to 2h.  Doesn't mean they're balanced because of this, but we'll see a lot more 2h swordsmen and even more strength builds.  Not that it's a problem.

*edit* also, are there any devs reading this?  I'm just wondering if its even possible to get rid of polestun with WSE now.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Thucydides on October 26, 2011, 11:22:39 am
rgetting rid of polestun means a stats buff for polearms, which means more work for balance team. Balance team is lazy, thus polestun will stay forever :twisted:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 26, 2011, 02:08:20 pm
rgetting rid of polestun means a stats buff for polearms, which means more work for balance team. Balance team is lazy, thus polestun will stay forever :twisted:

Lmao seeing how some people seam to be totally addicted to polestun....  :mrgreen:

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tigero on October 26, 2011, 07:36:07 pm
I almost shat my pants from rage when i was dueling some guy with a clumsy-looking poleaxe... but it was everything else than clumsy.
He stabbed me once, and here we go, boom, boom, boom, boom, i simply could not block the stabs, even tho i was spamming the mouse to block down.

Balanced mod indeed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 26, 2011, 08:17:02 pm
I tried to make people rage some months ago, and some did, but where sadly too mature to post about polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vexus on October 26, 2011, 09:20:08 pm
In my opinion weapons with speed less than 90-92 should have the stun because it compensates for the swing animations.

Also something has to be done about the pole thrust animation because for once 2h thrust animation got nerfed for being very fast (Which was a good thing to do) and now is normal to fast depending on the weapon speed like it should be while pole thrust animation is very fast regardless of speed making the stuns very annoying.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Patricia on October 26, 2011, 09:25:13 pm
What I love is when I nail someone in the back, with all the polestun going on, by the time they turn around, they're dead or down to a very low amount of HP.

Or when you get someone between you and another of your friend that also has a polearm, the poor guy's just stuck in place not being able to do anything just waiting to die.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 26, 2011, 09:47:50 pm
What I love is when I nail someone in the back, with all the polestun going on, by the time they turn around, they're dead or down to a very low amount of HP.

Or when you get someone between you and another of your friend that also has a polearm, the poor guy's just stuck in place not being able to do anything just waiting to die.
lmao -- but they'll keep arguing to keep it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Thucydides on October 27, 2011, 12:07:18 am
i was on NA_1 using a GLA and poor Occitan_Arrowiane got stuck between me and another GLA user. Poor guy got repeatively stunlocked in Gothic and after 6 hits he dies :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 27, 2011, 02:28:20 pm
What I love is when I nail someone in the back, with all the polestun going on, by the time they turn around, they're dead or down to a very low amount of HP.

Or when you get someone between you and another of your friend that also has a polearm, the poor guy's just stuck in place not being able to do anything just waiting to die.

Well if one manages to get himself sandwiched between 2 poles he should die, pretty sure he wouldve died even if it wasnt through polestun.
And getting someone in the back usually always lead to their deaths, not just because of the polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Phew on October 27, 2011, 04:10:42 pm
I've used pole for all 5 of my gens. I'd gladly trade the extra 0.2-0.4s of stagger animation for the 2H swing animations/reach. Pole animations are so obvious and awkward compared to 2H. Unless you are some agi build with a Spear/War Spear, it's not like you can "stunlock" someone in 1v1 anyway, so the stun mechanic only matter when you are ganging up on someone. Two coordinating guys with wooden sticks can easily "stunlock" someone too.

2H is already twice as popular as pole, get rid of the longer stagger, and you have to give something back to compensate, or 60% of players will be 2H. I'm already seriously considering going 2H mauler next gen, with the new hitboxes royally screwing anyone with a long weapon now (Long Bardiche here).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 27, 2011, 04:23:20 pm
I've used pole for all 5 of my gens. I'd gladly trade the extra 0.2-0.4s of stagger animation for the 2H swing animations/reach.

... Easy solution to that, switch to 2h ...

Quote
2H is already twice as popular as pole

No ... if they are, polearms are ridiculously OP because they were even with 2h in kills (or maybe they had more, in the last stats). Conclusion: nerf those OP polearms, getting as many kills as 2h even though there are twice as many 2h players!!!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: zagibu on October 27, 2011, 04:33:06 pm
Remove polestun and buff polearm thrust damage.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 27, 2011, 04:33:44 pm
... Easy solution to that, switch to 2h ...

No ... if they are, polearms are ridiculously OP because they were even with 2h in kills (or maybe they had more, in the last stats). Conclusion: nerf those OP polearms, getting as many kills as 2h even though there are twice as many 2h players!!!

"cough" Pole statistics include lance kills "cough"
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on October 27, 2011, 04:35:17 pm
Remove polestun and buff polearm thrust damage.

Yes, because for example 31 pierce on Poleaxe is not enough.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on October 27, 2011, 05:05:35 pm
Yes, because for example 31 pierce on Poleaxe is not enough.
But 28 on the best spear is not enough. Not saying that polaxes shouldn't have a ok/good stab, but SPEARS should have WAY better stab then they do. Seriously just look at this!
(click to show/hide)

It's just BS that it doesn't have a better stab. I can understand the low blunt swing damage and all, but the stab should be way better. At least the speed is decent.

Oh yea, let's compare it to the price equalant 2handers.
First the Morningstar:
(click to show/hide)

And the Longsword:
(click to show/hide)

Either give spears a better stab or make them much cheaper. I actually would like the price drop better because then we can actually have spears as the main strat weapons (which makes historical sense) for early armies AND not "unbalance" it by making them better at stabbing. Cause, you know, a poleaxe REALLY needs a better stab than a spear...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 27, 2011, 05:21:51 pm
What with the debate about varius weapons pierce dmg has anything to do with a tottaly retarded polestun screwing up people´s gameplay ?????????????

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on October 27, 2011, 05:39:10 pm
(click to show/hide)
Quote from: Paul
No worries. We don't listen to Tzar
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 27, 2011, 05:42:36 pm
Last stats they usually have about 2% or so less then 2Hers... counting lance kills.

Anywho, keep polestun for it is lulzy to see the rage and is a funny counterpart to across-the-map-headshots, ninja couching and 2 hander wiggle lolstabs that just hang out there.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Phew on October 27, 2011, 08:09:32 pm
... Easy solution to that, switch to 2h ...

Did you read my post? I said I'm already considering going 2H Mauler next gen, especially if I can find a way to bind attacks so I can't do anything but overhead.

No ... if they are, polearms are ridiculously OP because they were even with 2h in kills (or maybe they had more, in the last stats). Conclusion: nerf those OP polearms, getting as many kills as 2h even though there are twice as many 2h players!!!

I only play siege, and the last siege stats I saw had 2X as many 2H kills as pole. Siege stats are really the only ones you can look at, since lancers dominate battle. I don't anyone is complaining about the 0.8s stagger they would have endured had they not been 1-shot by that lance.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 27, 2011, 08:22:30 pm
Yes, I did read your post. You said you played 5 gens with polearm, why didn't you switch to 2h 4 gens ago if you'd rather have the 2h attacks? Also maul has nothing to do with most of the 2h weapons.

Siege is noobfest anyway, no one cares about those stats.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 27, 2011, 08:52:50 pm
I use polearms, and I voted to have it removed
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: justme on October 27, 2011, 08:58:32 pm
Remove polestun and buff polearm thrust damage.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: justme on October 27, 2011, 09:00:10 pm
I use polearms, and I voted to have it removed
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on October 28, 2011, 12:05:00 pm
As far as I know polestagger will be removed from every polearm but 1handable spears. Cmp can make a (serverside) flag for that ability with WSE if I am not mistaken. Dunno where it is on his prio list though.

/thread ?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on October 28, 2011, 12:54:27 pm
/thread ?
Thread. And makes sense too :D yay for cmp!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 29, 2011, 04:58:38 pm
tl;dr
2handers whining about stun in polearms that don't have advantages 2H has like animation bonuses and are angered when polearm user is able to kill them every now and then. Stun should not be removed. /thread
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on October 29, 2011, 05:03:01 pm
tl;dr
2handers whining about stun in polearms that don't have advantages 2H has like animation bonuses and are angered when polearm user is able to kill them every now and then. Stun should not be removed. /thread

Polestun is fucking bullshit.

Sure you could argue there might be need for some stat balancing 2h - pole once it's removed, but polestun is just a broken gamemechanic (it was implemented with spears in mind, not greataxes and poleaxes)  and as a poleuser I'm so fucking happy to see it removed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 29, 2011, 05:11:23 pm
Polestun is fucking bullshit.

Sure you could argue there might be need for some stat balancing 2h - pole once it's removed, but polestun is just a broken gamemechanic (it was implemented with spears in mind, not greataxes and poleaxes)  and as a poleuser I'm so fucking happy to see it removed.

Then dev team has to go back to their drawing board and do some balancing I guess, because this is the only advantage polearms have to counter 2h statwise (in duels atleast).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 29, 2011, 05:15:36 pm
Then dev team has to go back to their drawing board and do some balancing I guess, because this is the only advantage polearms have to counter 2h statwise (in duels atleast).

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on October 29, 2011, 05:28:06 pm
Then dev team has to go back to their drawing board and do some balancing I guess, because this is the only advantage polearms have to counter 2h statwise (in duels atleast).

Yes, well, why should polearms even be equal to 2h in duels when they have advantages in battle? Bonus vs shields, being able to use a longspear/pike to their full extent..
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Furax on October 29, 2011, 06:15:21 pm
Well.. polearms dont have more bonus to shields then 1handers or 2handers so thats an invalid arguement.

While I agree that polestun should be removed, it still should not stagger less than a normal 1/2h hit, im afraid it will be over nerfed and suddenly polehits dont stun anyone at all, not even for 0.01 second, so it ends up messing everything up.

And the devs dont care cause they shoot bodkins from shortbows anyways :cry:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on October 29, 2011, 06:42:16 pm
And the devs dont care cause they shoot bodkins from shortbows anyways :cry:

So who are this dev who plays archer?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 29, 2011, 07:09:54 pm
Yes, well, why should polearms even be equal to 2h in duels when they have advantages in battle? Bonus vs shields, being able to use a longspear/pike to their full extent..
They don't have to be equal, but it is always nice to be able to kill 2 handers if skilled enough. 2H still will be the ultimate duel class no matter what, because the animations are superior compared to polearms. Actually I don't really know what to think about polearm stun. Yes I play with polearms, but it has never felt unfair to me when I have fought against other polearmers (not even when I used to be 1h). Apparently many are angry about this issue...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Joseph on October 29, 2011, 07:20:23 pm
Stun should be based on weigth, not the "weapon".
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Uumdi on October 29, 2011, 10:20:52 pm
Yeah, I agree with weight being the factor if full on stuns are going to exist.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on October 29, 2011, 11:21:38 pm
Just nerf str builds and polestun can stay. Basically everything that seems imbalanced has something to do with str being op and agi being not so good choice.

Also, why there is 50% chance for polestun to happen? Isn't that a bit too high of a chance? Imho every special feature (polestun, crushtrough, knockdown) should happen once in five cases (one in four if weapon is triple heirloomed). 20-25% chance is much more reasonable and wouldn't annoy anyone but weapons will be balanced and different.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on October 29, 2011, 11:37:40 pm
Just nerf str builds and polestun can stay. Basically everything that seems imbalanced has something to do with str being op and agi being not so good choice.

Also, why there is 50% chance for polestun to happen? Isn't that a bit too high of a chance? Imho every special feature (polestun, crushtrough, knockdown) should happen once in five cases (one in four if weapon is triple heirloomed). 20-25% chance is much more reasonable and wouldn't annoy anyone but weapons will be balanced and different.
can polestun with 3/36 0PS build and scythe.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on October 30, 2011, 12:02:22 am
REMOVE THIS bundle of sticksRY ASAP
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2011, 12:31:25 am
can polestun with 3/36 0PS build and scythe.

True, but are you seriously afraid of a guy with 0 PS? Who cares if he stunlock you few times, he won't take more than 20% HP... even if there's more of them it's not a big deal. But if it's a guy with 9 or 10 PS things start to get scary. You see str builds are meant to deal loads of damage while being equally slow both in movement and attack. Currently that's not the case thankfully to things like free wpf, low movement speed bonus from ath (it's 5% and it should be 8% just like damage scales), no bonus to attack speed from agi, 180% swing arc and many thing which makes agi gimped and str king of the hill.

If they fix str/agi balance they will fix many things in one go, not just polestun issue.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 30, 2011, 06:39:26 am
THEY REMOVED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Patoson on November 05, 2011, 09:05:58 pm
Just REMOVE the polestun !
It is just
(click to show/hide)
annoying.
There is no point on supporting polestun with "reality facts" we are playing a game and this feature fucks it up.
2 handers topping the scoreboards doesn't mean that 2handers are overpowered.Means more skilled people play with 2handers, more nooblord bundle of stickss play with polearms.If you play good, you can top the scoreboard even with a 1 handed wooden sword.
No need to buff polearm damage/speeds also.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Lets check pros/cons.

  • 2 hander has more swing damage.Poleaxe has more stab damage.
  • Speed is same
  • 2 hander has higher reach.Poleaxe has bonus against shield
  • Poleaxe has stun effect.2 hander has nothing to compensate against that !

RESULT
THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE STUN EFFECT ON POLEARMS .

That is one great example. Removing the stun scares pole users, but I don't think they would be underpowered without it.

IMO, it just doesn't make damn sense that any polearm stuns you when a sword doesn't. Why would an axe stun you more than a sword? Ridiculous.

And long spears, awlpike and pikes wouldn't be much in a disadvantage anyway because they can stab faster than swords swing anyway (with their insane spinning before hitting - so realistic).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Casimir on November 05, 2011, 09:27:11 pm
Add 2h stun to balance the issue.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 05, 2011, 10:25:01 pm
Polearmers are afraid because they suck in general, like every other class beside the glorius twohanders.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Magikarp on November 05, 2011, 10:28:43 pm
Let's give polearms twohander animations while were at it! Diversity in gameplay sucks.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 05, 2011, 10:33:47 pm
Why give them those retarded animations. I'm for change of 2H animation to new ones so people have to learn blocking from the scratch.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 05, 2011, 10:34:17 pm
Let's give polearms twohander animations while were at it! Diversity in gameplay sucks.

+1 to that, wouldnt mind a +80 reach on my spear thrust, sweet!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 08, 2011, 03:19:24 pm
Also if there is no polestun there will be no stopping a tincan running into a group of enemies, he wont get stopped in his tracks and most people will hit eachother or glance off the armour.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Memento_Mori on November 08, 2011, 03:49:38 pm
Also if there is no polestun there will be no stopping a tincan running into a group of enemies, he wont get stopped in his tracks and most people will hit eachother or glance off the armour.

Without pole stun tin cans will become UNSTOPPABLE.


lol xD
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on November 08, 2011, 03:57:55 pm
2h bitching about overpowered Polearms.

Let's give 2h Polearm animations!

 :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on November 08, 2011, 03:59:47 pm
Let's give 2h Polearm animations!

 :lol:

2h already have that :P
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on November 08, 2011, 04:01:20 pm
Not as an option.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 08, 2011, 04:02:30 pm
Polestun is fine.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on November 08, 2011, 04:06:17 pm
Polestun is a stupid mechanic.

It doesn't really bother me that much and I don't really care if it gets removed or not, but a mechanic that enables you to get a free hit in is stupid at best.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on November 08, 2011, 04:18:06 pm
Polearms have a hugely inferior animation to 2h weapons.

Its balanced, get over it. And Ive played as 1h, 2h and pole for a few months each.

Oh and to people that cry 'Oh they chainstun me to death!' thats utter crap, you can only be stunned once and then you can block on the second hit. Just as with weapon stun. You cannot be chainstunned, even wit a shortened spear, and if you have been, thats your own fault for sucking.

But agree it does get op on a few select weapons.
But I think they should remove polestuns from the fastest polearms such as lhb, bec and glaive. Perhaps it should be changed to only stunning on the stab to give warspear etc more purpose and stun on side swings for verrrry heavy weapons such as great long bardiche.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on November 08, 2011, 04:51:08 pm
Polearms have a hugely inferior animation to 2h weapons.

Its balanced, get over it. And Ive played as 1h, 2h and pole for a few months each.

Oh and to people that cry 'Oh they chainstun me to death!' thats utter crap, you can only be stunned once and then you can block on the second hit. Just as with weapon stun. You cannot be chainstunned, even wit a shortened spear, and if you have been, thats your own fault for sucking.

But agree it does get op on a few select weapons.
But I think they should remove polestuns from the fastest polearms such as lhb, bec and glaive. Perhaps it should be changed to only stunning on the stab to give warspear etc more purpose and stun on side swings for verrrry heavy weapons such as great long bardiche.
Keep that in mind when some peasant does it to you with some spear.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Okkam on November 08, 2011, 04:56:14 pm
But I think they should remove polestuns from the fastest polearms such as lhb, bec and glaive.

Remove polestun from bec, but give us blunt damage and knockdown back. This is Hammer after all. Not damn bodkin.
Glaive in Native has only stab and overhead. Who was mad enough to add sideswings to this weapon?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 08, 2011, 04:58:25 pm
Keep that in mind when some peasant does it to you with some spear.

Pff, not everyone looking likea peasant is one.

I love to kill tincans or hgihly armored players with my Boar spear.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on November 08, 2011, 05:07:50 pm
Polearms have a hugely inferior animation to 2h weapons.
I so disagree with this, can't be arsed to elaborate, I have done that a thousand times already. Bottomline is I'd rather fight you with a 2h than a polearm any day. I hate fighting polearms.

But I think they should remove polestuns from the fastest polearms such as lhb, bec and glaive.
There is my main issue with polearms. These aren't that fast actually according to their speedrating. Still a glaive with 90 speed swings a buttload faster than a 2h of 90 speed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on November 08, 2011, 05:20:39 pm
Glaive in Native has only stab and overhead. Who was mad enough to add sideswings to this weapon?
Are you mad?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on November 08, 2011, 05:29:31 pm
Keep that in mind when some peasant does it to you with some spear.

Ahahaha... Are you NA?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on November 08, 2011, 05:45:50 pm
Great swords in Native have only stab, no side or down swings. Also bows have an alternative mode with x to shoot chicken. Took that out for cRPG because of PeTA.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 08, 2011, 06:19:39 pm
Great swords in Native have only stab, no side or down swings. Also bows have an alternative mode with x to shoot chicken. Took that out for cRPG because of PeTA.
I sense great humor in this post :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on November 09, 2011, 11:59:16 am
Glaive in Native has only stab and overhead.

lul
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Lars on November 09, 2011, 12:44:36 pm
Polearms have a hugely inferior animation to 2h weapons.

Its balanced, get over it. And Ive played as 1h, 2h and pole for a few months each.

Oh and to people that cry 'Oh they chainstun me to death!' thats utter crap, you can only be stunned once and then you can block on the second hit. Just as with weapon stun. You cannot be chainstunned, even wit a shortened spear, and if you have been, thats your own fault for sucking.



You are talking about a 1vs1 situation, but in a battle it doesn't work like that ... for exaple ,if you get hit by a polearm, and at the same time there's another enemy player nearby swinging at you (doesn't matter which class) , you can't block his swing, that's a fact.   And yea ,you can be chainstunned ,if there are 2 or more pole guys trying to hit you , i'm not saying it always happens, but when it happens it's fucking frustrating, cuz you can't do nothing, pole users working together can be extremely effective.
If the problem is that pole animation is slower compared to 2h, well, give more speed rating to some polearms, but remove the stun!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Camaris on November 09, 2011, 12:53:20 pm
Quote
Polearms have a hugely inferior animation to 2h weapons.
hugely inferior animation.... nice joke.
Yes 2-Hand animation is more fluid and handsome but polearm is far away from "hugely inferior".
And dont tell me 2H get those massive range boost... poles are still the longer weapons to counter that.
Poles are better at horses, have the best support weapons ingame and can stop horses + polestun
+ have their axes not unbalanced + have lots of shieldbonus-weapons + have by far the best low money weapons for strategus.
Dont tell me something of animations... you cant tell me that polearms havent got enough other stuff to counter that beyond polestun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on November 09, 2011, 01:52:37 pm
Warspear 150 reach
german greatsword 123 reach

German greatsword always hits first. 2h have higher range than poles.
Also horse rear only work on some poolearms, you stab a horse with an elegant or german poleaxe they ride right over you.
Polerms do have a vastly inferior anim, fighting bloody phyrex with those stupid lolstabs, pretend bounces, hiltslashes etc. Even with a long hafted blade with over 150 range I constantly find myself outranged by 2h.

Ofc polearms are better in strat, 2h is a far better duel weapon, polearms have the edge in battle, that is how it is meant to be.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Camaris on November 09, 2011, 01:57:18 pm
Warspear 150 reach
german greatsword 123 reach

German greatsword always hits first. 2h have higher range than poles.
Also horse rear only work on some poolearms, you stab a horse with an elegant or german poleaxe they ride right over you.
Polerms do have a vastly inferior anim, fighting bloody phyrex with those stupid lolstabs, pretend bounces, hiltslashes etc. Even with a long hafted blade with over 150 range I constantly find myself outranged by 2h.

Ofc polearms are better in strat, 2h is a far better duel weapon, polearms have the edge in battle, that is how it is meant to be.

You do know that fighting bloody phyrex with a 2-Hand isnt a solution?
Most 2H have no chance against phyrex so its no argument that 2H is the reason that phyrex is so awesome.

I could also say that fighting tor with a 2hand is not funny... his damn axe etc.

and to compare german and a warspear? why?
longspear always hits before german... so what is your point?

And dont forget you can fight with scythe in strategus.... i got 2H-Axes.... and perhaps sometimes in the future will get some
Goedendag... probably the only long 2h that will be available in strategus.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on November 09, 2011, 02:00:11 pm
Yes, 2h animations are better, but the game speed is slow and once you're a good blocker 2h animations are nullified, you can pretty much block any feint they throw at you.
And once again I doubt that the game is balanced on duel, I believe it is balanced on battle - therefore poles are better? :O
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 02:01:16 pm
Polearms can hiltslash just like 2h.

Real reach of German greatsword: left-to-right, 140. Right-to-left, 136. Overhead, 138. Warspear: left-to-right, 143. Right-to-left, 148. Overhead, 135.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on November 09, 2011, 02:04:37 pm
longspear always hits before german... so what is your point?

Are you seriously comparing GGS to long spear? They're not even close to filling the same role. Long spear is for anti-cav and support, and the long length shows that. However, being that sort of weapon it's got shit speed and one attacking direction. GGS has 4 attacking directions, is fast, deals better damage and has great reach with its lolstab. They're not even remotely alike, why compare them?

GGS will always hit before the 'dueling' polearms, if you as the swordman ain't incompetent.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Camaris on November 09, 2011, 02:08:17 pm
Are you seriously comparing GGS to long spear? They're not even close to filling the same role. Long spear is for anti-cav and support, and the long length shows that. However, being that sort of weapon it's got shit speed and one attacking direction. GGS has 4 attacking directions, is fast, deals better damage and has great reach with its lolstab. They're not even remotely alike, why compare them?

GGS will always hit before the 'dueling' polearms, if you as the swordman ain't incompetent.

I just compared them cause he compared GGS and Warspear.
Its about the same and it was just to show that i can also pick a weapon that is better in some things then the GGS.
Dont know if it was to hard to spot. But i had no intention to compare those weapons just to show that is bullshit to compare GGS with warspear.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on November 09, 2011, 02:49:58 pm
Poleaxe

141 weapon length

31 pierce stab unloomed

/thread
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 09, 2011, 03:57:11 pm
1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

Also what some people forgot is to also add in the existing -21 reach on polearms on top of the -Lenght the swing provides


1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

So what have we learned? 2h better animation better reach unless talking about massive pikes....

But yeah polestun is a gay way to compensate for crappy animation and lenght lol....

Hope devs finds a way to balance it out without the polestun
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 03:58:27 pm
Wut? What existing -21 reach on polearms?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 09, 2011, 04:02:08 pm
Wut? What existing -21 reach on polearms?

Pretty sure waltf4 mentioned something about a -21 reach due to the way the polearm are held.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on November 09, 2011, 04:04:51 pm
Poleaxe

141 weapon length

31 pierce stab unloomed

/thread

89 speed

Shorter than all the greatswords in 3/4 dir (right-to left being the exception)

Long (the actual length, without swing modifiers) length + high weight = slower movespeed.

Shitty pole animations... I could go on.

The problem with 2h to pole balance is not regular weapon vs weapon balance, but rather that the balance is upheld by 2 things that are bullshit imho:

1. Versatility. Polearms have the shieldbreakers, the pikes and the lances. 2h got superior CT and 1-slot weapons. Give something of all to both wpf lines. 2h axes shouldn't be unbalanced, 2h should have a pike to choose from and so on.

2. Polestun. Stat rebalancing might be needed, but apperently they're removing this which is a big step forward imo.

 
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 04:05:12 pm
Pretty sure waltf4 mentioned something about a -21 reach due to the way the polearm are held.

So do the calculations. Glaive has 160 reach, remove -21, then remove -7. Then take a German greatsword, 123 reach. +17 animations. Are you saying that 2h gets almost +50 reach compared to Polearms (on a sideswing)? And that german greatsword outreaches Glaive by FAR on a sideswing?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on November 09, 2011, 04:12:29 pm
My point was that despite having longer length, there is no actualy advantage in range.

warspear is a good polears and widely used, hence i used it as an example.

it has long range that greatsword but will rarely hit first.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 09, 2011, 04:18:35 pm
So do the calculations. Glaive has 160 reach, remove -21, then remove -7. Then take a German greatsword, 123 reach. +17 animations. Are you saying that 2h gets almost +50 reach compared to Polearms (on a sideswing)? And that german greatsword outreaches Glaive by FAR on a sideswing?

I never mentioned a glaive or german greatsword i just threw out the reach difference between polearms n 2h.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 04:19:22 pm
I never mentioned a glaive or german greatsword i just threw out the reach difference between polearms n 2h.

... i didn't say you mentioned glaive or german greatsword, I'm just comparing to numbers to point out that the -21 seems improbable because Glaive's swings outreach german greatsword's, no?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 09, 2011, 04:23:45 pm
... i didn't say you mentioned glaive or german greatsword, I'm just comparing to numbers to point out that the -21 seems improbable because Glaive's swings outreach german greatsword's, no?

Glaive left swing - 7 + - 21 = -29 out of a 160 in total so thats what 131 reach

German Greatsword left swing 124 reach

The glaive and the hafted long blade are the only 2 polearms that provides same reach on swings as the greatswords tho...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 04:30:09 pm
Glaive left swing - 7 + - 21 = -29 out of a 160 in total so thats what 131 reach

German Greatsword left swing 124 reach

The glaive and the hafted long blade are the only 2 polearms that provides same reach on swings as the greatswords tho...

dude what? did you even read the grip modifiers you posted?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 09, 2011, 04:31:04 pm
dude what? did you even read the grip modifiers you posted?

nope...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 04:31:29 pm
Apparently not.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: karasu on November 09, 2011, 04:31:37 pm
pacefalm
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 09, 2011, 05:15:40 pm
If you put your ear real close to the monitor you can almost hear the wooshing sound from the hundreds of people facepalming..
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 09, 2011, 06:15:28 pm
If you put your ear real close to the monitor you can almost hear the wooshing sound from the hundreds of people facepalming..

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 09, 2011, 08:22:10 pm
Polerms do have a vastly inferior anim, fighting bloody phyrex with those stupid lolstabs, pretend bounces, hiltslashes etc.

So you want to say that Phyrex beats you because he uses 2H and not because he is better at the game. Why don't you make similar build as Phyrex and show him how it's done?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on November 10, 2011, 02:33:11 am
Pffft, I used his as an example merely because he can be easily recognised and identified. I do not in any way claim to be the best at this game or anywhere near the top. And as stated I played as a 2 hander for some time and stand by what I say in the 2h has greater range, a greater variety of tricks to use and an overall better anim.
Polestun counter balances this.(I admit in an unintuitive way) If you gonna remove or limit polestun something else needs to be put in rather than just crying for a nerf in polearms in general.

(on a sidenote)These nerfs have been making the game slower and slower. Devs, if you want to balance somethin, buff alternative things instead of nerf paticulat classes. Or one day weapons will be so nerfed, and people will have so much lordly armour that this game loses any element of danger and becomes like any other rpg where you can take 20 hits.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Camaris on November 10, 2011, 03:12:43 am
(on a sidenote)These nerfs have been making the game slower and slower. Devs, if you want to balance somethin, buff alternative things instead of nerf paticulat classes. Or one day weapons will be so nerfed, and people will have so much lordly armour that this game loses any element of danger and becomes like any other rpg where you can take 20 hits.

I agree on this one and would buff every weapon ingame with +1 speed if i would be allowed to :p
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Okkam on November 10, 2011, 02:37:53 pm
Are you mad?

meh, my bad. But I clearly remember that Glaive has only stab and overhead at 2010 summer.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 03:51:12 pm
meh, my bad. But I clearly remember that Glaive has only stab and overhead at 2010 summer.

That was my first weapon which had all 4 attack directions, late june/early july 2010.

Before that, I used a Bamboo Spear.

So, no.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on November 21, 2011, 06:39:45 pm
Where is the goddamn patch? WHY ISNT IT REMOVED YET? WSE has been implemented 3 months ago whats the problem with removing the fuckin polestun?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Uumdi on November 21, 2011, 06:44:51 pm
Because of fresh demanding language like this.  If I were a dev I'd add more stun just to spite you.

Hahaha, really though, I agree fully.  A new patch would be great.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on November 28, 2011, 04:38:04 pm
Because of fresh demanding language like this.  If I were a dev I'd add more stun just to spite you.

Hahaha, really though, I agree fully.  A new patch would be great.
:D

There is a new patch and what happened to polestun? NOTHING
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on November 28, 2011, 04:39:16 pm
Where is the goddamn patch? WHY ISNT IT REMOVED YET? WSE has been implemented 3 months ago whats the problem with removing the fuckin polestun?

u mad?

not removed/reworked until people use the correct term.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2011, 04:56:25 pm
Poll stun?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 28, 2011, 04:57:49 pm
If you nerf my spear with removing Polestun from it, I will GTX this mod.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on November 28, 2011, 04:58:47 pm
If you nerf my spear with removing Polestun from it, I will GTX this mod.

PLEASE DO.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 28, 2011, 05:12:40 pm
cmp / meow'

Either they die

or they quit on the dev team

or they change class

Until then there is no point in crying out for a removal of polestun..

if you had been fast an licked alot of ass an gotten yourself on the dev team when chadz announced he was leaving the mod for others to continue working on it you could have played around with the items yourself an buffed your favorite class but touche u didn't so just switch class if you think that polestun is OP.

/End thread
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: _GTX_ on November 28, 2011, 05:23:01 pm
cmp / meow'

Either they die

or they quit on the dev team

or they change class

Until then there is no point in crying out for a removal of polestun..

if you had been fast an licked alot of ass an gotten yourself on the dev team when chadz announced he was leaving the mod for others to continue working on it you could have played around with the items yourself an buffed your favorite class but touche u didn't so just switch class if you think that polestun is OP.

/End thread
the purpose of a game isent to screw the balance and have 1 class everybody plays, might be that somebody actually enjoy their class ? and would hate to see it be shit compared to another ? And ofc there will always be a little bit of unbalance, but polestun is far beyond that.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on November 28, 2011, 05:28:47 pm
the purpose of a game isent to screw the balance and have 1 class everybody plays, might be that somebody actually enjoy their class ? and would hate to see it be shit compared to another ? And ofc there will always be a little bit of unbalance, but polestun is far beyond that.

I don't enjoy polestun either an find it gamebreaking when used by a agi whore.. but there is no point in trying to keep posting about it if they gave a damn they probably would have removed it by now...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: _GTX_ on November 28, 2011, 05:38:53 pm
I don't enjoy polestun either an find it gamebreaking when used by a agi whore.. but there is no point in trying to keep posting about it if they gave a damn they probably would have removed it by now...

U dont need to be agi whore to be able to stun people to death, i can do it with 1 wpf. Easyli with a bec actually. But who knows, the old 2h stab wasent as op at all, as the polestun is.   And people keept posting about it, and now 2h stab has been hell last patches. So who knows ?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 28, 2011, 06:19:50 pm
Herpaderpa I remember what I WANT to remember! Living in my own dream world :D
:D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on November 28, 2011, 06:33:34 pm
the old 2h stab wasent as op at all

 :lol:

Polestagger is gay on dueling polearms, but the 2H stab from native was even more retarded.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: _GTX_ on November 28, 2011, 06:58:27 pm
:D

Hah was waiting for jarleks hate  :lol:
:lol:

Polestagger is gay on dueling polearms, but the 2H stab from native was even more retarded.
Only in duels ? i would say that it is a big problem on siege/battle too.

The fact that ur character stands still for quite a long time, and is left completely open. Whichs mean a cav, archer or another infantry can get a free hit on you. Which then ends up being u standing still for quite a long time(assuming that ur not alrdy dead at this point), which could easyli end up in a gank. Trust me talking from experience..... sadly :/
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on November 28, 2011, 07:14:54 pm
+1
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on November 28, 2011, 07:21:09 pm
Only in duels ? i would say that it is a big problem on siege/battle too.

Didn't say only in duels. I said on the 'dueling polearms' which is all polearms bar support polearms(lances, pikes, spears)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on November 28, 2011, 07:22:56 pm
Didn't say only in duels. I said on the 'dueling polearms' which is all polearms bar support polearms(lances, pikes, spears)
Well, it also is annoying to fight someone with a War Spear who staggers and/or/whatever stuns you to death.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 28, 2011, 07:33:18 pm
Well, it also is annoying to fight someone with a War Spear who staggers and/or/whatever stuns you to death.
Funfact to all the new guys out there. When you get polestunned and hit again, the 2nd attack can NEVER cause a new extended stun. So any claims of "he stunned me to death!" is pure bullshit. The 3rd attack connected because you failed to block. The end.

(note: YES it is possible to attack again faster than the normal stun is. No, this is not usable with normal weapons, only the daggers and that is WITH a high wpf build, so he would have to hit you LOTS of times)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on November 28, 2011, 08:58:28 pm
Funfact to all the new guys out there. When you get polestunned and hit again, the 2nd attack can NEVER cause a new extended stun. So any claims of "he stunned me to death!" is pure bullshit. The 3rd attack connected because you failed to block. The end.

wat
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on November 28, 2011, 10:54:12 pm
Pls remove this annyoing freeze effect! :)

Edit: Or i whine as long as ur eyes start to bleed and bolls pop out.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Memento_Mori on November 29, 2011, 04:22:07 pm
All pole arms have passive ability to cast entangling roots on your victim, (ally or enemy) rooting them to the ground for a second.


I would ask that 1h be able to shoot lightening
and 2h should cause earthquakes or something cool like that.
Archers can shoot homing arrows?
Xbow with explosive shots?


TLDR, pole stun is super cool and I think we need more super cool things like it but different, on the other weapon classes.


*trollface*
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 29, 2011, 04:23:57 pm
All pole arms have passive ability to cast entangling roots on your victim, (ally or enemy) rooting them to the ground for a second.


I would ask that 1h be able to shoot lightening
and 2h should cause earthquakes or something cool like that.
Archers can shoot homing arrows?
Xbow with explosive shots?


TLDR, pole stun is super cool and I think we need more super cool things like it but different, on the other weapon classes.


*trollface*
No love for throwers :(
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: ThePoopy on November 29, 2011, 04:37:39 pm
need firebombs working
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 29, 2011, 05:08:06 pm
need firebombs working
Heeey, Beetle Bailey! Fucking love that!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Memento_Mori on November 29, 2011, 05:15:19 pm
No love for throwers :(

DAMN.

Always forget about the poor throwers, maybe give them telekinesis to pick up their missed shots from really far away. I don't know, should have thought more about this.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Frankysan on November 29, 2011, 09:29:49 pm
Funfact to all the new guys out there. When you get polestunned and hit again, the 2nd attack can NEVER cause a new extended stun. So any claims of "he stunned me to death!" is pure bullshit. The 3rd attack connected because you failed to block. The end.

(note: YES it is possible to attack again faster than the normal stun is. No, this is not usable with normal weapons, only the daggers and that is WITH a high wpf build, so he would have to hit you LOTS of times)
wow someone with brain i'm shocked
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2011, 10:07:57 pm
Dudes I told you that polearm stun won't be removed in the next patch but you didn't believe me.

Meow wasn't joking when he said to me that he'll retire at least 10 times before polestun gets removed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2011, 10:10:15 pm
No love for throwers :(

Why should anyone love a fucktard who comes after you like he's actually gonna fight you (like a man) and then stops at five meter distance and start throwing shit at you like a angry woman?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 29, 2011, 10:15:58 pm
Polestun won't be removed until everyone uses the right term!1111111
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Son Of Odin on November 29, 2011, 10:17:01 pm
Why should anyone love a fucktard who comes after you like he's actually gonna fight you (like a man) and then stops at five meter distance and start throwing shit at you like a angry woman?
Loled :D
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 29, 2011, 10:22:57 pm
Why should anyone love a fucktard who comes after you like he's actually gonna fight you (like a man) and then stops at five meter distance and start throwing shit at you like a angry woman?
You're right! IMPLEMENT THROWABLE ROLLING PINS!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2011, 10:26:41 pm
Rolling pin is there just to scare you, she'll never actually throw it at you.

This is a genuine female throwing weapon:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on November 29, 2011, 10:27:48 pm
Rolling pin is there just to scare you, she'll never actually throw it at you.

This is a genuine female throwing weapon:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

xD

But serious face on. I said "no love for throwers?" because he had already mentioned archers. Say what you will, archers are more bundle of sticks coward scum than throwers.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 29, 2011, 10:37:15 pm
Rolling pin is there just to scare you, she'll never actually throw it at you.

This is a genuine female throwing weapon:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Too heavy, most Women couldnt throw it wide and hard enough to actually hurt you.

Bitches either using Dishes or knifes these days, yo
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2011, 12:04:48 am
xD

But serious face on. I said "no love for throwers?" because he had already mentioned archers. Say what you will, archers are more bundle of sticks coward scum than throwers.

My theory about rage:

When a 2h swordsman kills you hate him really hard, but deep inside you, you hate him cause he's better than you.

When you get killed by anything else you rage because you know that the guy who killed you is probably worse player than you.

Polearms would go hand in hand with 2H if not for the silly polestagger (just because Xant requested to be named properly).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on November 30, 2011, 12:16:09 am
Nice Leshma. Now only all the ragers have to name it correctly too and I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 30, 2011, 12:18:46 am
POLESTUNPOLESTUNPOLESTUN

I dont want it to get nerfed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2011, 12:34:45 am
Nice Leshma. Now only all the ragers have to name it correctly too and I'll see what I can do.

You know what you could do?

Stop reading and commenting on my posts, I would greatly appreciate it  :wink:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 30, 2011, 06:33:13 am
poll stun too stronk
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Kophka on November 30, 2011, 06:38:21 am
Oh oh oh! If we get rid of polestun, can we also get rid of the extra speed, +90 length, and extra fast bounce-off-a-block recovery that 2 handers get because of broken animations? That would be awesome, thanks in advance!!!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2011, 01:25:52 pm
Greatswords are actually slower than most top tier polearms, if you fail to attack before them it just means you:

- have crap connection, lag or bad ping
- your reflexes are slow
- you've been hiltslashed

90 speed glaive is faster than 92 speed Danish Greatsword, not to mention that it's longer which means GS guy has to facehug glaive guy.

Xant once told me that they are faster because they attack slightly before model does but I see no good reason for that since none of those are curved weapons.

But they are indeed faster, most good players know that :wink:

To prove my point I'll just show you polearm which has 92 speed like Greatswords:

Quote
Long Hafted Blade
weapon length: 153
weight: 2
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 153
thrust damage: 19 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2

Do you really believe that this weapon is as fast as Danish GS?

I really don't get it why people cry so much about twohanders. Must be because they suck at 2H themselves. Once you're decent at 2H you don't want to play anything else, even if you try something else you'll get bored after a short period of time and respec back to 2H.

People who play other classes are either:

- FotM scum
- roleplaying a theme (like Ujin with that silly str shielder hybrid of his)
- don't know to play so they choose archery/xbow because it's the only class they are familiar with (Quake, UT, CS, CoD, BF, TF...)

When 2H was truly stronger than polearms there was like 80% 2H players. Make greatswords stupid easy and effective as pike is atm and you'll see everyone and their dogs running around with 2Hs on their backs. That's probably the reason why they don't wan't to buff 2H swords.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on November 30, 2011, 01:35:23 pm
If you're at a facehug distance, the right attack comes "before" the model. It's a hiltslash, but because of the way polearms are held it looks weird. It's not faster than 2h hiltslash, just looks a bit more dumb.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on November 30, 2011, 04:45:54 pm
People who play other classes are either:

- FotM scum
- roleplaying a theme (like Ujin with that silly str shielder hybrid of his)
- don't know to play so they choose archery/xbow because it's the only class they are familiar with (Quake, UT, CS, CoD, BF, TF...)

When 2H was truly stronger than polearms there was like 80% 2H players. Make greatswords stupid easy and effective as pike is atm and you'll see everyone and their dogs running around with 2Hs on their backs. That's probably the reason why they don't wan't to buff 2H swords.

Bullshiet. Calling every non2h FoTM scum is retarded. I was a polearmer one year ago, even during the era when German GS oneshot killed me in milanese plate. I still used my pole-arms when onehanders raped everything virtually.

(Yes, I had Milanese once, but after a week I sold it back because I like my traditional look better. Much more original and cool.)

Polearms for life here, I didn't choose the path because it's overpowered. I just don't like swords in general, and this was the nice alternative. Axes baby, Axes. etc.

About stun/stagger/whatever you name it: Well, is it possible to remove/change? If yes, then I'd like to try my weapons out without it for a week or so. I never really relied, or abused the feature, (other than longspear/bamboo melee combat) so I could easily say byebye to stagger.

After the test period, it would be easy to see if pole-arms can be useful without the stun, or need some kind of a compensation to balance it out. I think we wouldn't even need that.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Bobthehero on November 30, 2011, 07:42:34 pm
What the hell is FoTM scum anyway.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on November 30, 2011, 07:45:53 pm
What the hell does FoTM mean anyway?

 :wink:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on November 30, 2011, 07:47:47 pm
What the hell does FoTM mean anyway?

 :wink:

It's a common MMO word, 'Flavour of the month.'
Only shortened.

We should have our own word, 'Flavour of the patch' here, though.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jambi on November 30, 2011, 07:49:41 pm
What the hell does FoTM mean anyway?

 :wink:

Pickaxe
weapon length: 52
weight: 1.2
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 52
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 22 pierce
slots: 0
Secondary Mode
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Bobthehero on November 30, 2011, 07:58:16 pm
Your point?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Konrax on November 30, 2011, 08:03:20 pm
I honestly like the idea of polearm stun.

And I will tell you why:

Because its a big 2handed axe / face smashing type weapon that if it really did hit you, you wouldn't be stunned for a split second anyways.

Here is the problem:

Aside from the reduction in length polearms have, there really isn't a real disadvantage to taking them as weapons.
You get damage, range, anti cav, and speed also in some circumstances.

I would much rather see polearms keep the stun (aside from some weapons) but take an overall speed decrease.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on November 30, 2011, 08:35:56 pm
Once you're decent at 2H you don't want to play anything else, even if you try something else you'll get bored after a short period of time and respec back to 2H.

No, just no.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vodner on November 30, 2011, 10:03:48 pm
I really don't get it why people cry so much about twohanders. Must be because they suck at 2H themselves. Once you're decent at 2H you don't want to play anything else, even if you try something else you'll get bored after a short period of time and respec back to 2H.
I would like to think I'm a pretty good 2h. I still change my weapon class every gen (1h two gens ago, 2h last gen, polearm this gen, 1h next gen, etc). I'm sure there are plenty of other people who do the same.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on November 30, 2011, 10:10:16 pm
My theory about rage:

When a 2h swordsman kills you hate him really hard, but deep inside you, you hate him cause he's better than you.

When you get killed by anything else you rage because you know that the guy who killed you is probably worse player than you.

Polearms would go hand in hand with 2H if not for the silly polestagger (just because Xant requested to be named properly).

I think I just died a little inside....what a poor poor opinion, although it does sum up my own suspicions about the arrogance of many two handed players.

It's a shame because I dont dislike you Leshma.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on December 01, 2011, 01:43:20 pm
I think I just died a little inside....what a poor poor opinion, although it does sum up my own suspicions about the arrogance of many two handed players.

It's a shame because I dont dislike you Leshma.

Come on man, don't feel bad cause of lil ol me. I don't even play the mod anymore :P
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 01, 2011, 01:56:52 pm
Can I have your looms?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on December 01, 2011, 02:01:49 pm
Only if you promise you'll give them back to me when I decide to come back :D

And don' try to sell them. And don't give them to CM or anyone else.

I really think of you as of decent young man, I hope you won't fail my trust.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 01, 2011, 02:16:04 pm
I do solemnly swear to abide by these terms.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Siiem on December 01, 2011, 03:36:02 pm
And don't give them to CM.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 01, 2011, 03:38:14 pm
I wouldn't give Siiem the time of the day...

Thanks Leshma, you're awsum! :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: gazda on December 01, 2011, 03:40:14 pm
Y U NO admit guys that everything is balanced, even the xbows and 2h are fairly ok!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Bobthehero on December 01, 2011, 04:39:50 pm
Swashbuckling is still weaker than most, nerf everything but by every living god do not buff it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on December 09, 2011, 03:07:55 pm
*Passing by*.... *checks the polestun in game*... *Shrug*.. *walks away*.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Turboflex on December 09, 2011, 04:39:26 pm
I don't think the polestun itself is a problem, but some of the halbreds right now are ridiculous and can be swung fast enough to basically keep you stunlocked, I get hit once and the 2nd one comes in before I can get my shield up. Either this halbred needs a  nerf or maybe stun does.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: ManOfWar on December 09, 2011, 08:25:11 pm
I believe pole stun will be dependant on how hard you get hit


So now more little dinky hit stunning you
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Konrax on December 09, 2011, 08:27:57 pm
Thats awesome and fair imho
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: IG_Saint on December 09, 2011, 08:53:00 pm
So the big strong weapons that can 2 shot you keep polestagger, but the weak ones that need 10 hits lose it? That sounds terrible and just the opposite of what I'd do. I don't mind polestagger on a staff or spear, but getting killed because you missed 1 block, that sucks.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Kophka on December 09, 2011, 11:47:35 pm
Also, let's get rid of 2 handers stunning people if they block. Nothing worse than being unable to block after successfully blocking a light saber 2 hander that is faster and does more damage than the polearms that only stun you if you miss your block.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on December 09, 2011, 11:50:37 pm
wait what?
Every top polearm except elegant weights more than a danish
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 10, 2011, 12:08:00 am
Also, let's get rid of 2 handers stunning people if they block. Nothing worse than being unable to block after successfully blocking a light saber 2 hander that is faster and does more damage than the polearms that only stun you if you miss your block.

Are we playing the same game?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on December 10, 2011, 12:13:23 am
wait what?
Every top polearm except elegant weights more than a danish
Wait what? There are other weapons than polearms and 2handers. I say remove the stun lock on 1handed weapons blocking a heavy 2hander/pole.

Oh wait, I can just use a shi... OH WAIT! There's also the SHIELD STUN when a heavy weapon hits a shield.

Seriously. How are we supposed to not get stunned again?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Casimir on December 10, 2011, 07:08:14 pm
Chamber
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Kophka on December 10, 2011, 07:32:19 pm
Chamber

That's like saying that the answer to polestun is "don't get hit, problem solved." :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Memento_Mori on December 11, 2011, 03:46:33 pm
Also, let's get rid of 2 handers stunning people if they block. Nothing worse than being unable to block after successfully blocking a light saber 2 hander that is faster and does more damage than the polearms that only stun you if you miss your block.


Heavy weapons, not just 2 handers can stun a lighter weapon stopping you from ATTACKING but you will still be able to BLOCK.

Dueling with a wakizashi I deal with weapon stun on nearly every held hit of any weapon and I can tell you it does not impede your blocking ability only your attacking.

Gah, even heavy 1h swords can weapon stun. x_x
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Huey Newton on December 11, 2011, 07:21:10 pm

Heavy weapons, not just 2 handers can stun a lighter weapon stopping you from ATTACKING but you will still be able to BLOCK.

Dueling with a wakizashi I deal with weapon stun on nearly every held hit of any weapon and I can tell you it does not impede your blocking ability only your attacking.

Gah, even heavy 1h swords can weapon stun. x_x

how is that balanced?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 11, 2011, 07:36:59 pm
only happens on held attacks, just something that makes sense and adds a bit of complexity to the combat system
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on December 12, 2011, 12:07:53 am
only happens on held attacks, just something that makes sense and adds a bit of complexity to the combat system
Oh I know. But that it's a stun for the 1h shielder on both the attack on shield AND the attack on the 1h is a bit silly. The attack on the shield should give a longer recovery for the guy attacking the shield (getting stuck) and not the shielder.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 12, 2011, 12:25:46 am
Pretty sure that the shield weight is used to determine whether or not you get stunned. If so, I think it's fine - shields weigh a fuckton.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on December 18, 2011, 08:54:36 pm
LOLstun is the silliest of things. It's always fun chasing a back peddling AGI polearm getting stunned and pushed backwards. It's no wonder so many people choose to be spamming agility builds that don't require learning how to block an opponent.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on December 20, 2011, 10:01:52 am
LOLstun is the silliest of things. It's always fun chasing a back peddling AGI polearm getting stunned and pushed backwards. It's no wonder so many people choose to be spamming agility builds that don't require learning how to block an opponent.
I would bet removing the pole stun a stupid fuck like you would still get killed by a scythe... but remove it anyway and lets find out.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 20, 2011, 10:57:50 am
LOLstun is the silliest of things. It's always fun chasing a back peddling AGI polearm getting stunned and pushed backwards. It's no wonder so many people choose to be spamming agility builds that don't require learning how to block an opponent.

Those people never get very far on NA servers... Unless you are a siege scrub in that case 50% of the siege players don't block ever so it's fine... but then everyone on NA knows AGI builds never do well in siege...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Wraist on December 20, 2011, 05:42:11 pm
LOLstun is the silliest of things. It's always fun chasing a back peddling AGI polearm getting stunned and pushed backwards. It's no wonder so many people choose to be spamming agility builds that don't require learning how to block an opponent.

???

How does this happen? I have 7 agi, and wear under 7.7 weight and can't out-back peddle people. I only run slightly faster than most people wearing med+ armor.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on December 20, 2011, 06:01:07 pm
???

How does this happen? I have 7 agi, and wear under 7.7 weight and can't out-back peddle people. I only run slightly faster than most people wearing med+ armor.
Because those people probably have 18 agi and 6 athl or more? That's pretty normal. Or did you mean that you have 7 ATHLETICS and not agility?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Banzai!!! on December 21, 2011, 02:40:54 pm
Weapons like the pike should keep there polestun what with it loosing it overhead attack and being made an unbalanced weapon too I think it would be quite unfair for it to then loose it's polestun as well due to all other pole weapons being re-balanced.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Zisa on December 21, 2011, 06:08:10 pm
Weapons like the pike should keep there polestun what with it loosing it overhead attack and being made an unbalanced weapon too I think it would be quite unfair for it to then loose it's polestun as well due to all other pole weapons being re-balanced.
The point is polestun /polestagger can be a one hit I win attack as the opponent never gets a chance to block after the first hit. Not sure why anyone thinks that should actually stay, all the reasoning for it is simply excuses to justify it's existence. Most people want it removed as far as I can tell. It's fucking cheesy with 'little' polearms and deadly with 2 hit polearms.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: ArchonAlarion on December 22, 2011, 02:54:02 am
My favorite weapon style is polearm, but I have to say that polestagger is cheap as hell. Not because it is totally unfair or unrealistic, but because it is limited to polearms when it should be available to any weapon with a certain, high amount of weight. Polestagger on the smaller polearms is ridiculous, and although it makes sense for particularly large weapons, like bardiches and poleaxes (or even large 2hders), the speed at which these weapons can be swung and swung again makes it cheap.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on December 23, 2011, 11:55:47 pm
POLESTAGGER POLESTAGGER REMOVE REMOVE BUUH!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: v/onMega on December 29, 2011, 09:28:27 am
We should all be happy there isnt more players that can make proper use of their polearms.

But if u are in doubt that polestun is op....go watch polepoop or duel nubert.

Polepoop is really skilled and whenever he can, he will double hit you....taking 75% hp with one  overhead and right swing (bad armor calc.)

Like Saint said (he is a good manual blocker btw)....its silly that u die (nearly die) after u missed one block.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 29, 2011, 09:35:36 am
But if u are in doubt that polestun is op....go watch polepoop or duel nubert.

Done both, still don't think it's OP. Ain't got polearm chars either.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Inkompetent on December 29, 2011, 09:54:52 am
As long as we get overhand thrust with the polearms that need it (and preferably on all with a spear point as a secondary mode with only low and high thrust) so we have two directions of attack, then pole stun can be removed completely any day. Won't miss it. Right now at least the slow one-attack-stuff like pikes and similar definitely needs it. Rest of the polearms though? No. They are good anyway.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 29, 2011, 10:14:31 am
Overhand thrust on high reach polearms is way, way more OP than polestun could ever be.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Inkompetent on December 29, 2011, 10:40:55 am
Because you'd have to keep up with two whole block directions, or have a shielder walk first? The pike is completely useless anyway once you get within 2-2.5 meters of the wielder.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on December 29, 2011, 10:45:16 am
Because two pikers would automatically kill anyone at max distance who doesn't have a shield. And no, it really isn't. You can still spinthrust.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Nehvar on January 02, 2012, 05:26:42 am
Yes, sweet merciful crap, get rid of that silly stun.  At least on the spammy weapons--pikes/bamboo spears should probably keep it to retain their support weapon functionality.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: slimpyman on January 02, 2012, 08:11:31 am
I just find it silly. A polearm with 150 length gets outranged by a 2h weapon with 130 length.  Not to metnion the range on some 1h weapons make you go apeshit cause they seem to outrange you when you have a polearm.

Really, if they change the way you hold and swing or thrust the polearm id be down for the removal of polestun.  However since 2handed weapons clearly outrange the polearms, and provide better up close tactics, it seems to be a nessecary evil
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on January 02, 2012, 03:56:08 pm
But if u are in doubt that polestun is op....go watch polepoop or duel nubert.

So polestun is overpowered because very good players can do well with polearms?

I see....reminds me of the time a shielder told me that throwing stones was easy and op because I kept jumping over the top of him and hitting him in the back.

And the thing is ive seen ole Poopy play with terrible equipment and still do fantastically well. If he used nothing but his heavy armour and poleaxe, then yes I could see your point.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: v/onMega on January 02, 2012, 04:14:45 pm
Players of equal blocking skill, even worse, even skill.

None polearm player gets a hit in, opponent is able to block the next blow.

Polearm player gets a hit in, laughs and sticks the weapon up your ass again while u watch ur char stumble.

Whats the point of this?

Ofc I take polepoop as an example....since I perfectly know about his abilities (polearm or not)....

Thing is, does he need it?
No.
Does he rely on it?
No.
But heck, is it an unfair advantage?
Hell yeah, and no doubt, ill be PA this gen just to check if it really is that cheesy as I try to state here.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on January 02, 2012, 04:20:26 pm

Hell yeah, and no doubt, ill be PA this gen just to check if it really is that cheesy as I try to state here.

That's really really good, I have respect for you now, most people on this game assume to know how others play and how their equipment works without trying it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on January 02, 2012, 04:25:04 pm
I tried polearm and I got bored of the polestun so fast that I decided to go back to 2h. Its incredible powerfull and -in combination with lighting fast polearm stab- completly overpowered.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 02, 2012, 04:36:42 pm
I tried polearm and I got bored of the polestun so fast that I decided to go back to 2h. Its incredible powerfull and -in combination with lighting fast polearm stab- completly overpowered.

I tried 2h and I got bored of the Greatswords so fast that I decided to go back to polearms. It's incredibly powerful and -in combination with lightning fast swing animations/hilt slashes and lolstab - Completely overpowered.

 8-)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on January 02, 2012, 04:43:35 pm
ah forgot to add that Polearms can hiltslash alot better than greatswords
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 02, 2012, 04:51:36 pm
Still.

Lulswords > Most polearms.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 02, 2012, 05:13:24 pm
I'd pick a fight with Chase or Phyrex anyday over a fight with Tor or Polepoop. I think polearm animations are a lot more confusing than 2h animations. I'll probably get flamed for this, but polearms seem to swing a lot faster than 2h. maybe they have longer chamber time or something, but just watch someone swing a long hafted blade. That is supposed to be the same speed as D  & G greatswords.

Also the stab is hard to spot and very fast, doesn't glance much either. When an long awlpike user with 89 speed backpedals and spams the stab, I can't get a hit in.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 02, 2012, 05:19:36 pm
LHB is quite an extremity to call "Polearms".

It's a damn spam-stick, kinda like the Glaive, but a lot worse to face.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on January 02, 2012, 05:54:35 pm
Teeth, you can‘t get hits in on long awlpike users? :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on January 02, 2012, 06:10:48 pm
it's because of the strange slowness of the danish greatsword
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on January 02, 2012, 06:21:42 pm
It's because 2h halfwits are used to fight other 2hs. Muscle memory is mainly set to defend against 2h anims. If one would fight pole bums as often as 2h, there would be no difference imo. I personally don't have more or less difficulties defending against pole as against 2h. I have the biggest problems against 1h simple because I seldomly fight them and my reactions aren't as automated as against 2h or pole.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on January 02, 2012, 07:46:17 pm
I still think my theory about the strange slowness of the Danish and the ninja-buff of German is more likely. I think you're just trying to cover up the conspiracy, Paul.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on January 02, 2012, 08:20:46 pm
I kinda have to agree with Paul here, as for me it is the opposite of what Teeth is saying. I have a heck of a more easier time blocking poles, presumably because I'm more used to them.

Flamberge completely fucks my brain for that very reason; the mixed animations get me quite often.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 02, 2012, 11:12:04 pm
LHB is quite an extremity to call "Polearms".

It's a damn spam-stick, kinda like the Glaive, but a lot worse to face.
But why is that? It's 92 speed. Just like the glaive, it is faster somehow. Atleast on the swing part.

Teeth, you can‘t get hits in on long awlpike users? :lol:
When they aren't complete str whores, backpedal, spam stab. Pretty much.

It's because 2h halfwits are used to fight other 2hs. Muscle memory is mainly set to defend against 2h anims. If one would fight pole bums as often as 2h, there would be no difference imo. I personally don't have more or less difficulties defending against pole as against 2h. I have the biggest problems against 1h simple because I seldomly fight them and my reactions aren't as automated as against 2h or pole.
This is indeed true. Time for me to polearm again. Me sucking against good polearm users has also to do with unexpected things like pole stagger and weapon stun.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 03, 2012, 02:35:32 am
But why is that? It's 92 speed. Just like the glaive, it is faster somehow. Atleast on the swing part.

Must be the weapon shape..

I have no idea.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on January 03, 2012, 02:39:36 am
Must be the weapon shape..

I have no idea.

Really long weapons just have borked animations.

Think of it as circular motion. If you turn a long stick and a short stick at the same pace, the velocity at the end of the long stick is going to be bigger.

That's my theory at least, and btw I don't find the lhb to be particulary fast.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on January 03, 2012, 02:46:54 am
When they aren't complete str whores, backpedal, spam stab. Pretty much.

I've got 6 ath and use the long awlpike dedicated. Most good players can easily get a hit in after max. 2 stabs (I get stunned when someone blocks a thrust). I look at you as a good player Teeth, so I don't know what you do wrong if you have problems hitting lawlpike users. :|
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: ArchonAlarion on January 03, 2012, 03:23:14 am
ah forgot to add that Polearms can hiltslash alot better than greatswords

bull-spit
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on January 03, 2012, 07:46:36 am
It's true though. Polearms can hiltslash a lot better with either left or right swing, I forget which now.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: ArchonAlarion on January 03, 2012, 07:55:44 am
Eh maybe, I've only seen it used consistently and intentionally by 2h sword guys, especially to get through active shields.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 03, 2012, 11:09:55 am
That is cause most people that enjoy duelling are twohanders, which is where most learn hiltslashing. There are polearmers though that can do it ridiculously good. Tor or Greifenherz for example. The second hit hits you when the animation has barely started. These guys are a bitch to fight.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on January 03, 2012, 07:57:25 pm
Remove this crappy polestagger all rdy god.......

Someone donate a Mw 2h to dear leader cmp so we can move along with this ancient fucked up polestaggering mechanism  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on January 03, 2012, 08:27:34 pm
Someone donate a Mw 2h to dear leader cmp so we can move along with this ancient fucked up polestaggering mechanism  :lol:

German Greatsword, please.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on January 03, 2012, 08:34:33 pm
German Greatsword, please.

Fine setup the trade on the market then

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on January 03, 2012, 11:50:54 pm
If you really want (reader == "Urist" ? "polestagger" : "polestun") changed you should start suggesting how to change/with what to replace it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on January 04, 2012, 12:20:15 am
Dear Urist (?) , please change "polestagger" , (also falsely known as "poletun") to "no polestagger". Your biggest admirer, Writer.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2012, 01:15:46 am
One could suggest to make it so that polestagger only is allowed to happen when the receiving player is doing an attack animation in the moment of the hit. So it won't work against a defending or already staggered agent. Or one could propose that a stagger only takes place on a charged up foothit. But best is probably to keep yelling "NARF POLZSTUN".
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 04, 2012, 01:16:22 am
But best is probably to keep yelling "NARF POLZSTUN"

.seY
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on January 04, 2012, 09:26:02 am
One could suggest to make it so that polestagger only is allowed to happen when the receiving player is doing an attack animation in the moment of the hit. So it won't work against a defending or already staggered agent. Or one could propose that a stagger only takes place on a charged up foothit. But best is probably to keep yelling "NARF POLZSTUN".

This and reduce the total time the player is staggered.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Grumbs on January 07, 2012, 03:05:30 am
Give stagger to 2 handers too, then we can all have fun getting free hits

Really though, I don't see the point of the game mechanic, just keep the weapons relatively balanced without that sort of stuff. What does it add? I'm sure good players will still own without the stagger and will increase the skill ceiling somewhat

Maybe armour could influence the disables a bit? Including the archer/crossbow stun and knockdowns.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vodner on January 07, 2012, 04:27:25 pm
If you improve the polearm left swing (by making it faster, or less prone to glancing) and increase the damage of the swings on the spears, then there would be no need for polestun at all.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ufthak on January 07, 2012, 10:42:47 pm
The problem with the balance is as it stands now, polearm left is a horrendous animation and polearm right is only slightly passable. You still lose a few range on the right swing, and it starts way too far back, but it's not really an issue... The left swing however is pretty much a piece of shit.

Certainly if they're going to remove polestun but not fix the animations, they should at least change two handed sword thrusts to half-sworded animation EXCEPT possibly on the katana/heavy bastard/long. Although that would result in their thrust being FAR longer than the german/danish etc, which might just be... strange?

Is there anyway you could give a cooldown on polestun so that it either can't happen to the same person, or from the same source for about say.. 10 seconds?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 08, 2012, 12:18:29 am
I seriously cant believe all the whine on Polestagger, I bet most of the guys crying for removing it are 2handers...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Aleskander on January 08, 2012, 01:38:54 am
Poles are way more powerful that 2h now. Last night I changed my main form a 2her to a polemy old friend. The difference is very notable. I'm faster, I have a longer reach, and I have polestagger. The only bad thing is that I do slightly less damage. I'm using glaive BTW, might be part of the problem.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on January 16, 2012, 06:46:41 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 16, 2012, 09:07:28 pm
If you really want (reader == "Urist" ? "polestagger" : "polestagger") changed you should start suggesting how to change/with what to replace it.
Why do we need polestagger again? Whats wrong with ye old removal?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on January 16, 2012, 09:47:20 pm
If you really want (reader == "Urist" ? "polestagger" : "polestagger") changed you should start suggesting how to change/with what to replace it.

Agree with Teeth, also:

If you want to give something to "compensate", then why not just plain old stats?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on January 17, 2012, 01:58:05 am
If you want to give something to "compensate", then why not just plain old stats?

+5 speed +5 damage?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Zerran on January 17, 2012, 02:49:53 am
One could suggest to make it so that polestagger only is allowed to happen when the receiving player is doing an attack animation in the moment of the hit. So it won't work against a defending or already staggered agent.

This would be nice. It would also help eliminate spammers! As it stands polestagger can be extremely annoying since it can really screw you over even while playing defensively. With a system like this, the only time it would screw someone over is if they're being overly aggressive or just doing something stupid.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 17, 2012, 04:17:03 pm
+5 speed +5 damage?

Massive rage incoming then.

I remember when Elegant Poleaxe was first introduced, it had 97 speed, later 95.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on January 17, 2012, 04:18:42 pm
+2 speed +3 damage?

Fixed

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2012, 04:29:56 pm
I suggest polestagger to be entirely removed from all polearms with more attack directions than 1. It's really not needed on weapons that are equivalent if not better than 2h on many aspects without it.

However, some of the longest (read, less efficient as non-support weapons) 2-directional polearms should keep it, like the lances, long awlpike, bamboo spear, swiss halberd and english bill...
And certainly the pike and long spear should keep it. Those are already underused weapons. Removing the stagger would defeat their support purpose.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 17, 2012, 04:37:20 pm
I suggest polestagger to be entirely removed from all polearms with more attack directions than 1. It's really not needed on weapons that are equivalent if not better than 2h on many aspects without it.

However, some of the longest (read, less efficient as non-support weapons) 2-directional polearms should keep it, like the lances, long awlpike, bamboo spear, swiss halberd and english bill...
And certainly the pike and long spear should keep it. Those are already underused weapons. Removing the stagger would defeat their support purpose.
Ashwood pike?  :shock:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2012, 04:38:32 pm
Ashwood pike?  :shock:


What ? No of course not. It's as spammy as the awlpike. Those are basically duel weapons, and shouldn't get a polestagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 05:00:00 pm
So anything going to be done about this?

I don't know the reason for this polestun, actually it can't be neither about realism nor about balance.

No other weapon can stun and push you back so much as a polearm can do. People backpaddling and always pushing you 1-2 steps back when they hit you....

Would be cool if these things finally get changed instead of making weird bow textures or nerfs that are way too strong
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on January 25, 2012, 05:11:17 pm
It is about balance. Polearms needs something to compensate for the loss of polestun, if it happens.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on January 25, 2012, 05:34:08 pm
Would be cool if these things finally get changed instead of making weird bow textures

I agree. It would also be nice to remove polestagger instead of ordering pizza or playing Beethoven's 9th symphony.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Penitent on January 25, 2012, 06:13:56 pm
Polestun is fine.  "Oh noes!  I have to block twice in a row once in a while!"  Guys, its really not that bad.  2h already out-range and out-speed most poles, and this gives them something interesting and dynamic on the battlefield.  Getting rid of the stun and tweaking stats to compensate would make things much more stale and two dimensional.

signed,
-not a pole user
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on January 25, 2012, 06:14:54 pm
polestagger is fine.  "Oh noes!  I have to block twice in a row once in a while!"  Guys, its really not that bad.  2h already out-range and out-speed most poles, and this gives them something interesting and dynamic on the battlefield.  Getting rid of the stun and tweaking stats to compensate would make things much more stale and two dimensional.

signed,
-not a pole user
thing with polestagger is that you can't do shit once you're staggered.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xol! on January 25, 2012, 06:23:25 pm
polestagger is fine.  "Oh noes!  I have to block twice in a row once in a while!"  Guys, its really not that bad.  2h already out-range and out-speed most poles, and this gives them something interesting and dynamic on the battlefield.  Getting rid of the stun and tweaking stats to compensate would make things much more stale and two dimensional.

signed,
-not a pole user

That's not how it works.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on January 25, 2012, 06:28:16 pm
Herpa derpa not nerfing my own class derp derp...

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on January 25, 2012, 06:33:51 pm
Just remove it, give a small speedbonus to poles and be done with it already!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on January 25, 2012, 06:38:16 pm
polestagger is fine.  "Oh noes!  I have to block twice in a row once in a while!"  Guys, its really not that bad.  2h already out-range and out-speed most poles, and this gives them something interesting and dynamic on the battlefield.  Getting rid of the stun and tweaking stats to compensate would make things much more stale and two dimensional.

signed,
-not a pole user
You get stabbed by anything pointy in a clusterfuck----> polestaggered-----> X_X dead .  Polestagger is not fine. Thank you ,come again.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 06:40:16 pm
I agree. It would also be nice to remove polestagger instead of ordering pizza or playing Beethoven's 9th symphony.

Well actually you can order pizza and have your pc play Beethoven's 9th while removing it ;)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2012, 06:44:02 pm
You get stabbed by anything pointy in a clusterfuck----> polestaggered-----> X_X dead .  Polestagger is not fine. Thank you ,come again.

Yeah. But support weapons need it, to make them somewhat useful for melee support.

Every idiot can negate your longspear/pike by blocking down, at least if you land a hit, this gives you a limited time window to either;

a; Run,
b; Try to wiggle-in another stab, but it's not recommended with stab only weapons.

That, and the fact that bringing a support weapon is painful, ( nearly no-one helps you around infantry but expects you to kill all the damned cav during the round ) would render them almost useless.

Long Spear and Pikes need an alternative attack on them, if the stagger is out. But that would be a painful change.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on January 25, 2012, 06:46:55 pm
Yeah. But support weapons need it, to make them somewhat useful for melee support.

Every idiot can negate your longspear/pike by blocking down, at least if you land a hit, this gives you a limited time window to either;

a; Run,
b; Try to wiggle-in another stab, but it's not recommended with stab only weapons.

That, and the fact that bringing a support weapon is painful, ( nearly no-one helps you around infantry but expects you to kill all the damned cav during the round ) would render them almost useless.

Long Spear and Pikes need an alternative attack on them, if the stagger is out. But that would be a painful change.
long spears/ pikes are useful as hell even without the polestagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2012, 06:48:00 pm
Sure, but a lot less.

Also quite situational, most in the melee blob are angry spamming killwhores, who don't care about or even hate! someone who brings in a long spear, for stealing kills on the rare occasion. Hah, heard that a few times.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on January 25, 2012, 07:06:13 pm
polestagger is fine.  "Oh noes!  I have to block twice in a row once in a while!"  Guys, its really not that bad.  2h already out-range and out-speed most poles, and this gives them something interesting and dynamic on the battlefield.  Getting rid of the stun and tweaking stats to compensate would make things much more stale and two dimensional.

signed,
-not a pole user

Motherfucker what? You don't even know what polestagger is, obviously.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 08:09:54 pm
Polestagger is not only about pikes. It happens with every hit by every polearm.

And btw, as you Christo just mentioned, it is a support weapon. So it shouldn't be possible to stun something, run backwards and stun him again while also outreaching him and being able to outspam many people.

You were so eager to get archery nerf to support only, but when it comes to your own weapon class you don't seem to be so eager to make it a real support.

But you are not alone out there, most people here are totally biased, no problem.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on January 25, 2012, 08:13:06 pm
Polestagger is not only about pikes. It happens with every hit by every polearm.

It's the other polearms that's the problem. Dueling polearms should not get another hit for free.

And btw, as you Christo just mentioned, it is a support weapon. So it shouldn't be possible to stun something, run backwards and stun him again while also outreaching him and being able to outspam many people.

The support weapons should stagger the enemy for the heavy-hitters to finish off, just like the arrows do. Archery is for support, pikes are for support, they should both stagger.

But you are not alone out there, most people here are totally biased, no problem.

If there's one biased guy on this forum it's you. All your posts are biased bullshit.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 08:26:15 pm
No problem with polestun done by a pike which is a support weapon, but then it shouldn't do such high dmg if it is really meant as support or it shouldn't be possible to spin around, jumphit or just backpaddle all the time with it.
But I don't think that weapons like elegant poleaxe are support weapons so why do they need all that?


Btw Gurnisson, I was not talking to you about the biased stuff, so no need for you to throw your blabla in. I can't really tell I know many smart posts done by you, but I'm not telling you all the time. :rolleyes:

I was talking to Christo cause he was as I said very eager about nerfing ranged cause they are meant to be support
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2012, 08:32:49 pm
I was talking to Christo cause he was as I said very eager about nerfing ranged cause they are meant to be support

Me, very eager about nerfing ranged?

Stop fabricating freaking lies.

The only thing I was lobbying for -heck, I admit-, was the removal of ladders.
I know it might still hurt you that it happened, I remember how much you defended it saying how "tactical" and "new-dimensional" it was.

Guess what, me, and a huge part of the community was right, and ladders got disabled in normal gamemodes, for a good reason.
(FYI: Hiding on a rooftop for entire rounds aren't that "smart" or "tactical as you think", nor does it bring a "new dimension" in the game.

Suck it up, and move along. And for crying out loud, don't spread lies.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on January 25, 2012, 08:38:29 pm
Me, very eager about nerfing ranged?

Stop fabricating freaking lies.

The only thing I was lobbying for -heck, I admit-, was the removal of ladders.
I know it might still hurt you that it happened, I remember how much you defended it saying how "tactical" and "new-dimensional" it was.

Guess what, me, and a huge part of the community was right, and ladders got disabled in normal gamemodes, for a good reason.
(FYI: Hiding on a rooftop for entire rounds aren't that "smart" or "tactical as you think", nor does it bring a "new dimension" in the game.

Suck it up, and move along. And for crying out loud, don't spread lies.

Thank you.

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 08:41:48 pm


The only thing I was lobbying for -heck, I admit-, was the removal of ladders.
I know it might still hurt you that it happened, I remember how much you defended it saying how "tactical" and "new-dimensional" it was.


Hahaha, never laughed so much. Telling me liar but saying total crap I never said.

I was always for removing ladders, you can check all my posts if you want.

The only thing I once said was that is adds more or less some depth to the game and that if they stay (cause it seems chadz wanted to keep them) it shouldn't be possible to make roofs unreachable.
I was on roofs very rarely, but keep on living in your world.

Oh jeez what a crap
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2012, 08:47:13 pm
The only thing I once said was that is adds more or less some depth to the game

Oh, fine.

Sorry, for not caring about 51 pages of highly ignorant/biased nonsense from you, and reading every single comment,

Nor remembering what words you've used exactly, weeks ago.

I still remember this beautiful line, however:

You can laugh about it as much as you want Christo. It is my opinion and this game is not a melee game. That is something most of you guys seem to forget every second minute...

So, sorry for actually having a life, and not browsing your damned posts full of nonsense all day, to post a 100% accurate sentence about you.
I have more important things to care about.

Nitpickers will nitpick.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 08:51:12 pm
Still talking about something that is my opinion?  :rolleyes:

Just because it is my opinion doesn't mean that you have to like it or that you have to consider it as good/true or whatever you want.


I'm very glad with the ladderremoval. Real archery takes place among the infantry, not above it^^



here is one for you ;)

I can give you more, but as far as I know you and your posts you will tell me I changed the real posts etc etc. I don't even know why I'm always bothering myself with you :/
Maybe because it's funny^^



Sorry, for not caring about 51 pages of highly ignorant/biased nonsense from you, and reading every single comment,


Talking about yourself again? 
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on January 25, 2012, 08:56:31 pm
Tell you what, if one of you brings me the code to disable polestagger, I'll add it to the patch.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2012, 08:59:38 pm
Still talking about something that is my opinion?

Yes.

You kinda "threaten" everyone with saying: "That is something you guys seem to forget every minute."
 So, you kinda, erm.. try to force your opinion on others there? That's why it's hilarious.

Just because it is my opinion doesn't mean that you have to like it or that you have to consider it as good/true or whatever you want.

Sure. I wouldn't care about it if it wouldn't be written in an offensive style like that by the way.

here is one for you ;)

I can give you more, but as far as I know you and your posts you will tell me I changed the real posts etc etc. I don't even know why I'm always bothering myself with you :/
Maybe because it's funny^^

Good, you might've had a good day there. But still your behavior here is just childish.
Also, you don't know a damn thing. You just try to look smart with saying "I know you and what would you say."
Pathetic.
Also I don't know why am I bothering with retards like you. It's kinda entertaining, though.

Talking about yourself again? 

Hah. I'm sure I have more than 51 pages of comments. So, no.

See, I can nitpick as well!
Your attempts at countering are laughable.

If there's one biased guy on this forum it's you. All your posts are biased bullshit.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 09:01:53 pm
Tell you what, if one of you brings me the code to disable polestagger, I'll add it to the patch.

Never knew you don't know how to do it ^^

Thought you brought it into the game so you know how to remove :/



But still your behavior here is just childish.


Nothing you are different :/

I don't know what is childish in your opinion. That I have an own opinion? Or that I tell people what I think about them? Or that I make fun about people cause it's the only way I can stand all that bullshit people here are saying?

At least I don't end every 2nd one of my threads with insulting people or saying things like  "QQ" "l2p" etc. That's just mindless copying what people said again and again.
You even know what QQ really means?

Btw, I did not refer to the amount of pages. But I think you can figure that out on your own.

Let's quit that discussion. We both don't have a good opinion of the other one and it will result in always quoting and talking against and maybe insulting.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on January 25, 2012, 09:03:52 pm
Tell you what, if one of you brings me the code to disable polestagger, I'll add it to the patch.

Someone told me that you could add knockdown tag to all poles and the problem would be solved.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on January 25, 2012, 09:09:32 pm
No problem with polestagger done by a pike which is a support weapon, but then it shouldn't do such high dmg if it is really meant as support

Getting two-hit by rus and long bows with 58 body armour, 21 strength and 5 IF pre-patch. If support weapons shouldn't have high damage, well why are you crying about the range nerf and then crying about pikes dealing too much damage? :? Pikes still deal pretty low damage if you're not constantly going for headshots or using speed bonus to full extent.

or it shouldn't be possible to spin around, jumphit or just backpaddle all the time with it.

You're awful if you lose a duel to a long spear/pike, apart from maybe against Craftybadger, just saying. Pikes are very bad weapons for 1 vs. 1, especially because of the stun you get by hitting someone's block with a stab, which leads to free hits on the piker all the time. Just play correctly and the pikeman can't really do much at all.

But I don't think that weapons like elegant poleaxe are support weapons so why do they need all that?

Like I said earlier, no 'dueling' polearms need polestagger and should have it removed, if cmp can work his magic.

Btw Gurnisson, I was not talking to you about the biased stuff, so no need for you to throw your blabla in. I can't really tell I know many smart posts done by you, but I'm not telling you all the time. :rolleyes:

I'm not telling you all the time either. But when you reach xxxx amount of biased posts I have to vent my frustration. I'm sick and tired of all your posts, but that's just my honest opinion. You may hate me and my posts how much you want, I don't care. :)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 09:15:30 pm
Gurnission I have no problem with an archery nerf, I just think it was a bit too much.

And don't tell me that crap, pikes deal massive dmg and everyone knows it :rolleyes:  Of course there are weapons dealing more, but that's not the point.

And yes, I think the same about you and your posts, but that might happen when there are so many people coming together. You can't like everyone.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on January 25, 2012, 09:20:10 pm
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It's not just polearmer class, it's his sub-class "STR stacking PS to the max polespammer". It's the official dev class played by cool devs like Meow and cmpx :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on January 25, 2012, 09:35:39 pm
Someone told me that you could add knockdown tag to all poles and the problem would be solved.

That's some funny shit you wrote there. Very smooth way of saying "buff me" :P
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on January 25, 2012, 09:46:11 pm
As far as I know only blunt damage causes knockdowns, so giving all poles the kd flag apart from maybe spears would probably work. Damage and thus kd chance of blunt pole attacks like GLA stab or awlpike overswing is rather low.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on January 25, 2012, 11:52:20 pm
Substituting polestagger with a knockdown chance for all poles ?

Soooo, since my lance angle was reduced , can i get an ak47 , preferably usable from horseback  ?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Zerran on January 26, 2012, 12:06:03 am
As far as I know only blunt damage causes knockdowns, so giving all poles the kd flag apart from maybe spears would probably work. Damage and thus kd chance of blunt pole attacks like GLA stab or awlpike overswing is rather low.

At the very least, please don't remove polestagger from longspear and pike. All it would do is further reduce their effectiveness as support.  :|
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 26, 2012, 12:07:50 am
At the very least, please don't remove polestagger from longspear and pike. All it would do is further reduce their effectiveness as support.  :|

Yeah as Gurnisson also said, support poles should keep it, but those others like elegant poleaxe shouldn't have it
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on January 26, 2012, 12:35:26 am
At least I don't end every 2nd one of my threads with insulting people or saying things like  "QQ" "l2p" etc. That's just mindless copying what people said again and again.
You even know what QQ really means?

Tell me, how many times did you see me use "l2p" in these forums?
 These days, I used it once, but I stated that It's not my posting style to use such stuff.

I don't prefer using that "word", for a good reason.

Yet, you write things you aren't even sure about, and can't prove with evidence.

Go on, search for my posts in an "every second thread/thread of mine" pattern if you are that desperate, but it's not needed.
I'd bet anything that you wouldn't find so many uses of "QQ", or "l2p" among them.

So, it's best for you to stop right there, without posting further bullcrap that's not even half-true.

And I know what QQ means, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on January 26, 2012, 01:14:45 am
Substituting polestagger with a knockdown chance for all poles ?

Soooo, since my lance angle was reduced , can i get an ak47 , preferably usable from horseback  ?

As far as I know only blunt damage causes knockdowns, so giving all poles the kd flag apart from maybe spears would probably work. Damage and thus kd chance of blunt pole attacks like GLA stab or awlpike overswing is rather low.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on January 26, 2012, 07:13:47 am
Why should support weapons keep it? I really don't get it
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Zerran on January 26, 2012, 08:28:33 am
Why should support weapons keep it? I really don't get it

One of the primary purposes of support is to distract the enemy, and give your teammates the chance to hit them. Polestagger works well for this, without it the longspear and pike lose a huge portion of their role.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on January 26, 2012, 11:00:37 am
Why should support weapons keep it? I really don't get it

Well the point of support is not killing, but utility.  Since the overhead was removed and the number of long spear users dropped on servers, I believe they should keep the stun.

Long range stun, just like archery I guess?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on January 26, 2012, 04:43:48 pm
You guys are confusing the stagger with the stun btw.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 26, 2012, 05:18:04 pm
You guys are confusing the stagger with the stun btw.
polestagger is the old term for polestagger, I think anyone that is talking about polestun is talking about polestagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 27, 2012, 08:52:28 am
polestagger is the old term for polestagger, I think anyone that is talking about polestagger is talking about polestagger.

eh?^^
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on January 27, 2012, 09:54:47 am
polestagger is the old term for polestagger, I think anyone that is talking about polestagger is talking about polestagger.

That's very philosophical of you.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 27, 2012, 12:47:17 pm
I suppose he was drunk/drugged/tired?^^
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on January 27, 2012, 12:48:35 pm
No, he got trolled.

polestun = polestagger

Der Admins have decided for some more censorship.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on January 27, 2012, 04:21:54 pm
Dammit, fuckin moderators.

polestun is the old term for polestagger, I think anyone that is talking about polestun is talking about polestagger.
You can't stop me!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rustyspoon on January 28, 2012, 05:50:26 pm
Never had a problem with polestagger really. It's only a big issue if one gets behind you. Honestly polearms need something as they have really shitty animations that telegraph their attacks quite obviously. Aside from a good right swing, they don't have much going for them. Parrying a polearm is ridiculously easy compared to a 2-hander or 1-hander. Let them keep their stagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Kato on January 28, 2012, 06:47:19 pm
Never had a problem with polestagger really. It's only a big issue if one gets behind you. Honestly polearms need something as they have really shitty animations that telegraph their attacks quite obviously. Aside from a good right swing, they don't have much going for them. Parrying a polearm is ridiculously easy compared to a 2-hander or 1-hander. Let them keep their stagger.

Parrying 2h is not harder than polearms, only quick 1handers have advantage.

Poll result is clear.
Only 18% of crpg population need to compensate their skill with broken mechanic.
2h are not superior over polearms at all, only advantage 2h have is stab length.
Polearms have versatility, damage, feels faster on same speed rating, shieldbreaker bonus, instant stab and broken animation (look like some frames missing).
Except of hoplites polearms dont need polestagger to be effective. Spears (2 direction specially) have ridiculous high pierce damage and are extremly effective in clusterfucks and group fighting.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on March 07, 2012, 04:43:33 pm
bump
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on March 07, 2012, 07:23:41 pm
if remove pole stagger , then 2h will become even more OP than polearm. then lets remove the lol stab from 2handed to make it balance wise
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on March 07, 2012, 07:34:48 pm
remove polestagger, it is in no fuckin way improving this game
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on March 07, 2012, 07:52:57 pm
if remove pole stagger , then 2h will become even more OP than polearm. then lets remove the lol stab from 2handed to make it balance wise

It's not a question of whether it's OP or not, it's just the fact that the polestagger is a shitty mechanic. Balancing can be done afterwards; there is no reason to keep it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on March 07, 2012, 07:55:56 pm
Something inside me laughs maliciously whenever I kill anybody with polestun combo. It's revenge for all the times it's HAPPENED TO ME but yes it's quite gay.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on March 07, 2012, 08:02:31 pm
It's not a question of whether it's OP or not, it's just the fact that the polestagger is a shitty mechanic. Balancing can be done afterwards; there is no reason to keep it.

If it got removed. As a result it will become another buff to 2 H  , the thrust of 2 H is even more longer than most polearms :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on March 07, 2012, 08:07:03 pm
If it got removed. As a result it will become another buff to 2 H  , the thrust of 2 H is even more longer than most polearms :rolleyes:

So? Shitty mechanic removed = win anyway.

And we haven't tested it yet, so speculating about the *wild OP'ness* of 2h if it got removed is not doing much good.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Okkam on March 07, 2012, 09:19:54 pm
Remove polestagger, add 5 speed and 5 damage to all polearms. Wait 5seconds for river of tears of our Mighty twohanders kindergarten. Wait for week, then revert to polestagger stage and look for happy twohander's kindergarten.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: duurrr on March 08, 2012, 02:58:54 am
Remove polestagger, add 5 speed and 5 damage to all polearms. Wait 5seconds for river of tears of our Mighty twohanders kindergarten. Wait for week, then revert to polestagger stage and look for happy twohander's kindergarten.
i lold

this guy for president pls
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Siiem on March 08, 2012, 03:01:10 am
i lold

this guy for president pls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RFDW9b_ejfI#t=69s
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on March 10, 2012, 09:15:34 pm
bump
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on March 10, 2012, 09:19:01 pm
Lengthen the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on March 10, 2012, 09:57:11 pm
Remove polestagger, add 5 speed and 5 damage to all polearms. Wait 5seconds for river of tears of our Mighty twohanders kindergarten. Wait for week, then revert to polestagger stage and look for happy twohander's kindergarten.

This is funny because that's actually how they do things sometimes...

People would cry (protest is nicer word but there are many kids playing this so crying is suitable) but not without a reason. Adding 5 speed to all polearms would totally break melee balance. I would still play 2H for two reasons (1 - I have no choice, 2 - weapon balance isn't affecting my performance by a big margin).

You got my vote. It would be nice, for a change, to play in an environment where players who don't use twohanded weapons don't think how all twohanders are crappy players who would suck without their OP greatswords.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Molly on March 10, 2012, 10:19:04 pm
I dunno about all the other poles but I think at least the pike should keep it. It's the longest and probably slowest weapon ingame. That should reflect after a hit. So, yes, remove it from every pole except the Pike.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Fartface on March 11, 2012, 10:50:35 pm
Give polearms 2h stab animations? :mad:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on March 11, 2012, 10:57:31 pm
Give polearms 2h stab animations? :mad:

Yea if polestagger is removed they will be just like the same as 2 handed. Also if you devs really want to remove polestagger please remove "Thrust stun" , it is when you stab someone, they block down and you can't block almost like a second. Which is like polestagger but the other side.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on March 11, 2012, 11:11:27 pm
Every weapon has thrust stun. If it gets removed all melee classes will profit from it. I know you're kinda new to cRPG but you should do some research before posting.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on March 11, 2012, 11:29:18 pm
Every weapon has thrust stun. If it gets removed all melee classes will profit from it. I know you're kinda new to cRPG but you should do some research before posting.

Only remove it from polearm, simple as that. I been in CRPG 1 year ago but my old account was dead so i made a new one. I am not new to CRPG. i played warband and mount and blade for almost 4 years now. And i have always been making mods for warband. Search for alex dragon in talesworld. yes i am also a moderator and i know how to mod things, i have been helping with the chinese mod romance of the three kingdom. Then i quit and make my own version. then i quit the mod and make a new warband version of ROTK, then i quit again and make extra invasion.

(click to show/hide)

This is me when i first came in CPRG, and tears was the one who help me.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8975.msg132175.html#msg132175
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on March 11, 2012, 11:31:36 pm
i played warband for almost 4 years now. And i have always been making mods for warband. Search for alex dragon in talesworld

Another Time Wizard..  :)

"Mount&Blade: Warband is the first sequel for the action role-playing video game Mount&Blade. First announced in January 2009, the game was developed by TaleWorlds and was published by Paradox Interactive on March 30, 2010"

My guess is that you mean the original M&B, but still.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on March 12, 2012, 08:31:38 am
Another Time Wizard..  :)

"Mount&Blade: Warband is the first sequel for the action role-playing video game Mount&Blade. First announced in January 2009, the game was developed by TaleWorlds and was published by Paradox Interactive on March 30, 2010"

My guess is that you mean the original M&B, but still.

Well how would YOU know, rookie, I been playin cRPG fo 6 years straight bro
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Patoson on March 12, 2012, 01:31:44 pm
I can't believe it still hasn't been removed, but I suppose it's because it's impossible... it must be that.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on March 12, 2012, 04:29:35 pm
Well how would YOU know, rookie, I been playin cRPG fo 6 years straight bro
Bitch please. I've been playing it for 20 years! What do you mean I'm only 19? How's that a problem?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on March 13, 2012, 04:28:13 pm
ffs.... if your not gonna remove it atleast apply polestagger to each weapon in cRPG so we all can enjoy the bundle of sticksry....
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on March 13, 2012, 04:33:26 pm
ffs.... if your not gonna remove it

there is one way to do it , is to changed all polearm into 2 handed weapons but that will be suck. 2H stab animation is a bit rediculous and unrealistic + OP as they can reach out for CAV , 1 handed can spam hard, polarm got polestagger but has thrust stun. 

Quote
atleast apply polestagger to each weapon in cRPG so we all can enjoy the bundle of sticksry....

Only extremely good coder can do that, it's pretty hard to remove / add it via python. Cool story bro

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on March 13, 2012, 06:03:49 pm
ffs.... if your not gonna remove it atleast apply polestagger to each weapon in cRPG so we all can enjoy the bundle of sticksry....

Nah... they would cry so much I wouldn't be able to play because of their tears. Most of them rely of that silly polestagger, there are very good polearmers out there but most are spammers. Sure, there are plenty of spammers among 2H ranks but not as much because they don't get second hit for free every second time...

And the most important thing, 1H would become OP and we can't let that happen, right? :D

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on March 13, 2012, 06:37:15 pm
And the most important thing, 1H would become OP and we can't let that happen, right? :D

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on March 26, 2012, 08:43:53 pm
bump!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 27, 2012, 12:50:47 am
As Cmp once said, the devs don't know (or pretend not to know :D) how to do it :/
Only Paul said what he knows works is to give all polearms knockdown which removes polestagger.
I can't say what's worse, polestagger or knockdown :/
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on March 27, 2012, 01:21:08 am
As Cmp once said, the devs don't know (or pretend not to know :D) how to do it :/
Only Paul said what he knows works is to give all polearms knockdown which removes polestagger.
I can't say what's worse, polestagger or knockdown :/

Almost none of them would knockdown though. GLA would knockdown on thrust, Awlpikes on overheads etc. but it's rare for polearms that have stagger to have any blunt attacks and only blunt attacks can knock an opponent down.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Arn De Gothia on March 27, 2012, 02:24:33 am
+1 for pole stun removal.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on March 27, 2012, 06:31:54 am
polarm got polestagger but has thrust stun. 

2hander has thrust stun to argument declared invalid.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Adalwulf on March 27, 2012, 07:53:13 am
2hander has thrust stun to argument declared invalid.

As Rufio knows arrows have......ARROW STUN BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYEAH ARCHERY OP!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on March 27, 2012, 03:37:03 pm
Almost none of them would knockdown though. GLA would knockdown on thrust, Awlpikes on overheads etc. but it's rare for polearms that have stagger to have any blunt attacks and only blunt attacks can knock an opponent down.

Alternate mode?

I've been knocked down by Nagelfar in a duel and he was using Poleaxe. I was :shock: but later realized he was using alternate mode.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on March 27, 2012, 07:49:40 pm
The alt mode doesn't stagger
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Angantyr on March 28, 2012, 03:03:57 pm
Lengthen the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: karasu on March 28, 2012, 03:09:01 pm
You can have the knockdown tag to nullify the stagger, without actually having knockdown, or so Shik said some time again.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on March 28, 2012, 03:34:49 pm
You can have the knockdown tag to nullify the stagger, without actually having knockdown, or so Shik said some time again.

If the attack is not blunt damage, yes. However, I smell rage when awlpikes knockdown on the overhead to one-hit you with the thrust when you're sprawling on the floor. Or knockdown with GLA thrust and two free 48 cut hits afterwards. :)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on March 28, 2012, 03:44:22 pm
If the attack is not blunt damage, yes. However, I smell rage when awlpikes knockdown on the overhead to one-hit you with the thrust when you're sprawling on the floor. Or knockdown with GLA thrust and two free 48 cut hits afterwards. :)
not too much of a difference between knockdown and polestagger thb. you'll most likely get killed after being staggered/knocked down in both cases
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 28, 2012, 03:51:11 pm
Yeah, give me Knockdown.

This will totally change my ability to use Polearms.

Not.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ronin on March 28, 2012, 06:42:07 pm
Well, I kinda like the polestagger effects of polearms; it is simply one of the properties what makes a pole different than two hand. So let's keep it as it is, but perhaps lower the damage of all polearms just a tiny bit to make it balanced.
Note: I am a two hander.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gricks on March 30, 2012, 04:07:28 am
Only have pole stagger on thrust attacks. It would fix a lot of the stunlock capabilities of the swinging polearms.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 03, 2012, 07:43:16 pm
remove it, PLEAAASEEE
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: HUSTLER on April 03, 2012, 07:47:46 pm
remove it, PLEAAASEEE

They could if they wanted too since all they had to do was add knockdown tag to all the polearms an change the blunt dmg on thrust on some of the polearms to pierce or cut..


Clearly it aint gonna happen since this is a amateur mod an the devs can do what ever the fuck they want :) if you except cRPG to somewhat balanced this game is not for you.

If cmp enjoy hes polestagger what´s gonna make him remove it? its hes mod he can do what ever he please  :P

Just be happy we can play it for free an they still add new items n stuff to the mod
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: MrShine on April 03, 2012, 07:53:33 pm
polestun isn't that bad

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 04, 2012, 04:27:35 am
its bad in duels and even worse in teamplay
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Fartface on April 04, 2012, 01:12:05 pm
I never get polestaggered so worse that i cant block the second hit.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 04, 2012, 01:13:43 pm
If you removed thrust stun from polearms and buffed them a little I would happily see polestagger go away. Randomness is silly anyway.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: HUSTLER on April 04, 2012, 02:51:02 pm
If you removed thrust stun from polearms and buffed them a little I would happily see polestagger go away. Randomness is silly anyway.

I dont see why we would need a buff if they removed our polestagger..

Sure the 2h animation may look more smooth but its still just a animation like the polearm got its own animation.

Fact is polearms are fine but polestagger is really bullshit an tbh deadly in group fights when i run with my m8 i stagger people for him to finish em its really easy sometimes   :rolleyes:

1vs1 polestagger is fine but when you bring team mates or face a enemy group one polestagger an your dead

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rebelyell on April 05, 2012, 08:12:35 am
true is that then if you want go high lvl you will go polearm

21/21 with beck or some poleaxe and you can spam stun even decent bloker
and when you'r enemy have ping around 20.... and he is decent player....

its better for you to block all his hits
all of them
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 05, 2012, 12:59:15 pm
I dont see why we would need a buff if they removed our polestagger..

Sure the 2h animation may look more smooth but its still just a animation like the polearm got its own animation.

Fact is polearms are fine but polestagger is really bullshit an tbh deadly in group fights when i run with my m8 i stagger people for him to finish em its really easy sometimes   :rolleyes:

1vs1 polestagger is fine but when you bring team mates or face a enemy group one polestagger an your dead

Most of the polearms are fine yeah, like the axes. But spears on the other hand, they really do rely on stun for either supporting or getting a stun on a side swing so you may actually get a thrust in aswell and do some damage.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 05, 2012, 02:16:12 pm
If you ever decide to remove paulstagger, remove it completely, from every single polearm in game. Or keep it this way. Warspear does not deserve stagger more than any other polearm, don't listen to Gravoth.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: HUSTLER on April 05, 2012, 02:47:24 pm
they really do rely on stun for getting a stun on a side swing so you may actually get a thrust in aswell and do some damage.

An what ? you clearly are a bit too biased just listen to you own words..

You saying that its ok for spears to stunlock people to death?

Polestagger is stupid an needs to go an that goes for all of the polearms  :?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 05, 2012, 02:51:55 pm
An what ? you clearly are a bit too biased just listen to you own words..

You saying that its ok for spears to stunlock people to death?

Polestagger is stupid an needs to go an that goes for all of the polearms  :?

Well maybe stunlocking someone to death is pretty harsh, but if polestun was to be removed spears will need a juicy buff to compensate.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: HUSTLER on April 05, 2012, 02:58:00 pm
Well maybe stunlocking someone to death is pretty harsh, but if polestagger was to be removed spears will need a juicy buff to compensate.

Well maybe i dunno... clearly the pike an the long spear still have its use with or without polestagger an wouldn't need a buff.

Weapons like the war spear may lose its egde people use it for the sole purpose of stunlocking their opponents to a slow death but with or without polestagger its still a good fast stab weapon  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 05, 2012, 07:51:21 pm
Well maybe i dunno... clearly the pike an the long spear still have its use with or without polestagger an wouldn't need a buff.

Weapons like the war spear may lose its egde people use it for the sole purpose of stunlocking their opponents to a slow death but with or without polestagger its still a good fast stab weapon  :lol:

Give it the sideswing of LHB, maybe a bit weaker and make hoplites do normal damage with normal speed and im ok, ;).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 05, 2012, 09:16:14 pm
Or just make the spears really, REALLY cheap? They should be for polearms what axes are for 2hs. The really cheap weapons that still have a use (2h axe break shields/doors and do good damage, spears have the stab damage and can rear horses). I would like that. Maybe also remove the penalty with shield (for SPEARS not all polearms) would also give them enough back.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Piok on April 07, 2012, 11:01:03 am
Polestagger should be implemented to all weapons :twisted:.
Cause if you hit somebody with enough force (make him lose lots of hp), then he should be staggered.
Something like this: if dam>(25+if-weapon weight)= staggered
So ironflesh and armor becomes more useful.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 07, 2012, 11:12:28 am
Polestagger should be implemented to all weapons :twisted:.
Cause if you hit somebody with enough force (make him lose lots of hp), then he should be staggered.
Something like this: if dam>(25+if-weapon weight)= staggered
So ironflesh and armor becomes more useful.
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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on April 07, 2012, 11:30:41 am
The Poll is old, and the majority of people didn't even got the chance to vote, thread fail.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Fandrall on April 07, 2012, 03:41:53 pm
I never bothered that much with Polestagger since im either on horse or dead. However I have a question for the guys who knows how this mechanic works.

If you get dehorsed and get hit with a polearm while your trying to get up will you get stunned then aswell? I have no proof of this but it feels like 1h and 2h gets only one hit in b4 I can start defend myself but poles get two and sometimes even three hits in before I can do anything.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Celduin_Nienna on April 08, 2012, 06:39:52 am
I would also like to see pole stagger / stun removed from cRPG.

2 reasons:

1: It gives the Pole user an insanely unfair advantage versus his opponent. And is unbalanced versus the other weapons in the game.

2: If you cant stun someone with the stab from a Sword, then why can you stun someone with a stab from a Spear. If you cant stun someone with a hit from a Great Axe, why can you stun someone with a hit from a Great Long Axe.

Pole stagger does not make any sense, and should therefore be removed imo.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 08, 2012, 07:29:49 am
Change the two handed stab and im fine with polestun getting removed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: San on April 08, 2012, 08:11:58 am
Give all weapons (w/o knockdown or whatever applies for polearms) what constitutes as polestagger.




If this sounded ridiculous, then you acknowledge how much polestagger affects how polearms function.

Give polearms a little better animations or w/e. Just make them overall better w/o polestagger as a crutch.

As a last resort, make polestagger deterministic ( hit in the middle of enemy holds/swings, or whatever else might be fine).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 08, 2012, 08:16:09 am
Change the two handed stab and im fine with polestun getting removed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 08, 2012, 02:47:43 pm
Change the two handed stab and im fine with polestagger getting removed.

Okay, but in that case thrust damage should be buffed a little bit.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 08, 2012, 07:00:30 pm
Change the two handed stab and im fine with polestagger getting removed.
+1


Okay, but in that case thrust damage should be buffed a little bit.
My suggestion is a weird one. A stab from a thick blade (most 2h swords and some 1h swords) would definitely do more damage because of the bigger size, but would also be way harder to actually penetrate armour. Thus I say we give all/most 2h swords and some/few 1h swords huge damage (35-45) on the stabs, but they do Cut to represent their bad piercing ability. Who's with me?

Also, now that I think about it. This should also be for some spears too. A spear isn't really good at piercing armour (unlike the spike of a poleaxe or the long spike-thingie that an awlpike is), so they should probably get this too.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Piok on April 09, 2012, 10:26:26 am
+1

My suggestion is a weird one. A stab from a thick blade (most 2h swords and some 1h swords) would definitely do more damage because of the bigger size, but would also be way harder to actually penetrate armour. Thus I say we give all/most 2h swords and some/few 1h swords huge damage (35-45) on the stabs, but they do Cut to represent their bad piercing ability. Who's with me?

Also, now that I think about it. This should also be for some spears too. A spear isn't really good at piercing armour (unlike the spike of a poleaxe or the long spike-thingie that an awlpike is), so they should probably get this too.
Good suggestion +1 for it. I think it will lead to more diversity in weapons on battlefield and armor become more useful. Buff to spear and 2hswords should be between +3 or +5 dam on trust then.
On other hand this could lead to awlpike plague if they weren't balanced properly to this change.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 09, 2012, 07:43:29 pm
fail fail fail, you all fail , you want to remove 1 big ass gamebreaking problem and replace it with tons of other problems to compensate for the feeling of loss from that one totally op problem, gtfo, just remove polestagger, and be done with, 2 handed animation op? gtfo, alot could also claim the left to right swing of 1handed over shoulder: should be remade because its actually a pretty damn eazy insta headhitting swing, spears reach abusing with insanely fast thrusts and repeatability of these thrusts and the list can go on for a while. stay ontopic. imo polestun being removed will only do crpg good, and wont kill the game.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 09, 2012, 11:37:02 pm
Maybe if the over-the shoulder left swing on a  one hander could hit outside the range of almost every other melee weapon while having a very sizable window from start to finish within the animation to cause damage, then you might have a decent point. Two Handers already have it stupidly easy with the different great swords,superior side swing animations and so on. Honestly, If you don't think the two handed stab is stupid as it is right now then I don't think we have anything to discuss. Also, you seem to have missed the point of the post while inadvertently giving another example supporting it. It wasn't meant to go off topic but point out that most weapons have at least one really stupid feature/mechanic. Pole stagger is no more annoying than most others as far as im concerned.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 09, 2012, 11:42:45 pm
Plz fix this shit all rdy...

Add knockdown tags gogogogogo
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 09, 2012, 11:44:54 pm
Maybe if the over-the shoulder left swing on a  one hander could hit outside the range of almost every other melee weapon while having a very sizable window from start to finish within the animation to cause damage, then you might have a decent point. Honestly, If you don't think the two handed stab is stupidly broken as it is right now then I don't think we have anything to discuss. Also, you missed the point of the post. It wasn't meant to go off topic.
2h stab is fine
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 09, 2012, 11:46:46 pm
2h stab is fine

Of course it is. visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on April 10, 2012, 12:02:13 am
Leave my pole stagger alone!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 10, 2012, 12:08:03 am
Leave my pole stagger alone!

I think your pole staggers enough people as is, sir.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Slev23 on April 10, 2012, 12:12:45 am
If you remove polestagger, why have polearms? 2h already has better animations, is faster in most cases, and can reach as far as any of the speedier polearms. Tell me, is this CRPG, or 2hRPG.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 10, 2012, 12:15:14 am
If you remove polestagger, why have polearms? 2h already has better animations, is faster in most cases, and can reach as far as any of the speedier polearms. Tell me, is this CRPG, or 2hRPG.
not sure if serious
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Adrian on April 10, 2012, 12:17:21 am
Agreed! Take that stupid pole stagger shit outta the game. It's fucking stupid and every polearm has it.

It's bad enough that 90% of all polearm users are just S-Key fucking heros, back peddling everyone just spamming swings or swinging then back peddling back outta range. That's not skillful footwork, it's just plain bundle of sticksry.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 10, 2012, 12:18:39 am
It's fucking stupid and every polearm has it.

No, not all of them.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 10, 2012, 02:39:43 am
Agreed! Take that stupid pole stagger shit outta the game. It's fucking stupid and every polearm has it.

It's bad enough that 90% of all polearm users are just S-Key fucking heros, back peddling everyone just spamming swings or swinging then back peddling back outta range. That's not skillful footwork, it's just plain bundle of sticksry.

If you can outreach the opponent backpeddaling is a good tactic as it will give free attacks.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 10, 2012, 02:55:55 am
Fix it plz... thx

Add knockdown tag Beeilen Sie sich Paul tun es für Deutschland tun es für das Vaterland schnell schnell  :!:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 11, 2012, 06:26:55 pm
Just fuckin try it out atleast :!:

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Piok on April 11, 2012, 09:47:44 pm
Fix it!!!
That would be good start.
And then nerf morningstar :twisted:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Huey Newton on April 11, 2012, 10:00:12 pm
Make the rider of a horse get bumped stunned, if his horse bumps someone on foot.
Also remove blocking from longspears/pikes

Devs did both in one patch and it lasted for 2 days.
Then the whiners came..
I can't bump slash or bump lance anymore  :cry:
I can't abuse poor designed hitbox triggers in very-long-weapons-that-are-supposedly-balanced-out-by-speed-but-actually-animations-in-this-game-make-it-so-weapon-speed-can-be-ovecome

 :cry:

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 11, 2012, 10:14:25 pm
Make the rider of a horse get bumped stunned, if his horse bumps someone on foot.
Also remove blocking from longspears/pikes

Devs did both in one patch and it lasted for 2 days.
Then the whiners came..
I can't bump slash or bump lance anymore  :cry:
I can't abuse poor designed hitbox triggers in very-long-weapons-that-are-supposedly-balanced-out-by-speed-but-actually-animations-in-this-game-make-it-so-weapon-speed-can-be-ovecome

 :cry:

lol cav is all ready disabled 1vs1 against anyone with a brain the changes they made where overkill...

About the long spear an pike.... well tbh aslong as people abuse em like they do now they should just remove them from the game until cmp finds a way to make sure u cant hit trough team mates an walls with em... removing block is also just overkill  :?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Huey Newton on April 11, 2012, 10:34:27 pm
lol cav is all ready disabled 1vs1 against anyone with a brain the changes they made where overkill...

About the long spear an pike.... well tbh aslong as people abuse em like they do now they should just remove them from the game until cmp finds a way to make sure u cant hit trough team mates an walls with em... removing block is also just overkill  :?

What? Anyone?
If someone doesnt have a melee weapon longer than a heavy lance, then 1v1 i can almost guarantee their death

Cavalry doesnt need bump slashing/lancing
Sure its makes the class much easier, but certainly not necessary

How is removing block overkill?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 11, 2012, 10:43:47 pm
Sure it could have worked if it where only applied to lancers but 1h cav was pretty much wrecked by the change...

Off course removing blocking from the long spear an pike is a bit overkill when they still cant remove their ability to hit trough team mates an walls
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: ThePoopy on April 11, 2012, 10:51:12 pm
make it so pikers cant spin after releasing attack
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 12, 2012, 12:16:30 pm
removing poplestun would be enough in my book, and with pikes only thing that might work imo is having in interval between stabs of maybe 1 second or something.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 12, 2012, 12:21:18 pm
Remove insta-thrust (stabs even if you don't release the mouse button, which leaves you bouncing with a thrust-stun) and thrust-stun and you can remove it, no problem. 8-)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 12, 2012, 01:35:29 pm
other weaps have thrust stun to, argument invalid

*and that insta thrust you talk about ... i think your mouse is suffering from ware, might want to open it up and look at the mouse button connections. i havent had this on my polearm experience,
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 12, 2012, 01:58:35 pm
*and that insta thrust you talk about ... i think your mouse is suffering from ware, might want to open it up and look at the mouse button connections. i havent had this on my polearm experience,

Only happens with thrusts while close to the enemy, and have happened with 3 different mouses.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ronin on April 12, 2012, 02:18:05 pm
Let me repeat myself: I think polestagger is fine. As a twohander, I believe some polearms are a tiny bit overpowered but polestagger is the thing what makes pole more fun based and make the game rich. Please do not remove it. If you want to balance pole/twohand find another way. I do not think any kind of weapon should be crippled to provide balance. It just makes the game less and less fun in my opinion. Archery and crossbowery are examples for this, and this comes from a Twohander.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Logen on April 12, 2012, 02:25:14 pm
Yeah, getting stunned for eternity by a glanced strike sure is rich.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 12, 2012, 02:28:31 pm
Getting free unblockable hits in because of polestagger is gay (as is WarLord :**), I wouldn't remove stagger entirely, just reduce it so that doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 12, 2012, 02:32:18 pm
Since when is gettin stunned when struck by a 48 cut MW gla only to find yourself dying in the next hit because he have enough ath to run around your block while your stunned to finish you off in hes next swing improve the cRPG gameplay for anyone but the polearm user  :?:

Polestagger was implemented in native to help the AI spear users in battle from not getting overrun i believe not to make your everyday cRPG hero lvl 32+ something polearm user with hes none native poleaxe stun you to peices...

Its a broken mechanic which only makes you rage polearm user or not its still annoying as hell Adding knockdown tag would remove it.. and imho the sooner the better
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ronin on April 12, 2012, 02:39:11 pm
If you are concerned of polestagger, then simply don't get hit. Haha suckas :)

Seriously though. The only thing it works is that when there's one more enemy you're struggling with. Or your enemy has to be very high level with good powerstrike, proficiecy and athletics. Which is something that makes sense. Just give other classes some juicy buffs to compensate. Other than that what would be the difference between polearms and twohanded weapons? Just animations and different set of weapons?

I did not get polestaggered to death. It is possible to block after you get hit isn't it?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 12, 2012, 02:47:04 pm
It is possible to block after you get hit isn't it?

If the user who struck you have 7+ ath or just light gear then he can run around you while you are polestaggered an thus he can finish you off since you wont be able to turn your mouse fast enough to get in position to block hes next attack its pretty simple to pull off when you gotten used to it...  :rolleyes: try spectating Tor someday if your in doubt..

And then we have our none abusive pike users who would never try an stagger you with their pikes trough their own team mates for them to finish you off...

Polestagger is just broken an does nothing but serve as a recipe for easy kills...

NOTE: To the devs add knockdown tag an lets try it out an see how it goes.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Aleskander on April 12, 2012, 04:37:22 pm
meh
It's annoying, but I don't notice getting killed by it that much. It only really matters in 1v1.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 12, 2012, 08:31:53 pm
<3

I´ve been told that I´m gay alone 3 times today, I think like 50 times in total. Funny how many people think they know my sexual orientation!   :mrgreen:

Oh boy I know how you look at me when we duel, you're one of those hard gays I just know it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8B2bjkVPVE
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 12, 2012, 08:37:13 pm
I've said this in the past and I'll say it again:

Remove polestagger and give all polearms 2H animations.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 12, 2012, 10:20:40 pm
My favorite part about polestagger is when they have an agi build and can spam it so fast I might as well walk away from my computer and do nothing about it and it would have the same effect as if I were to be trying to fight
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 12:44:10 am
some people in this thread drasticly need to gtfo of this thread since they have no clue what they are talking about,  i can tell you now ath or wpf has nothing to do with why i hate polestagger, its that the real players in this game , that actually have a clue what they are doing, may it be hiltslashing or teamplaying, can abuse polestagger like a boass. you in a group fight: get glanced by a polearm cant block next attack, hit by a polearm, your dead.
now when you get a build with decent ath 6/7/8 and ive had a polearm with 8 ath, and i can tell you i fuckin laugh my ass off, i have the range advantage and the stagger, i have really won fights against 5 people + by just switching targets keeping my reach advantedge, and if i hit somone i can choose to get my second free hit in , or gain more distance if i think somone else will get a hit on me because the guy i hit is stunned hihi.
back to teamplay, polestagger in teamplay is a fun killer, it makes skill irrelivent because if you get hit by a polearm good players know they can hit you for free, your fucked eventhow you have the reflexes and position to block. now go talk again about how you think polestagger isnt that bad , i dare you you scrub pub leecher nuub randomer.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Patoson on April 13, 2012, 01:02:27 am
This reminds me of Age of Conan's PvP, forever unbalanced.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 01:26:43 am
appart from a slight ranged damage nerf and polestagger this game is pretty damn ballanced
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 13, 2012, 01:30:38 am
Remove arrow stagger. More OP than polestagger since it's got larger reach
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 13, 2012, 04:27:35 am
Remove arrow stagger. More OP than polestagger since it's got larger reach

imo if one thing staggers, then everything should

stagger makes sense, it totally makes sense, but it makes no sense that you can take a hit from something like a flamberge and keep trucking like nothing, or you get hit with some puny polearm and your character just goes derp
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: TurmoilTom on April 13, 2012, 04:34:06 am
I've said this in the past and I'll say it again:

Remove polestagger and give all polearms 2H animations.

The poleaxe with 2h stab... *drool*
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 13, 2012, 04:52:54 am
The poleaxe with 2h stab... *drool*

Imagine 2h thrusting a pike
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 05:02:16 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Adamar on April 13, 2012, 05:04:06 am
Im unsure about this issue as I oppose any measure that makes life easier for 2handers.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 13, 2012, 09:06:07 am
Imagine 2h thrusting a pike

Shouldn't be a problem because the 2H thrust is fine.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 13, 2012, 01:36:57 pm
Shouldn't be a problem because the 2H thrust is fine.
Yeah. Totally fine. You are so right! Please give the pike 2h stab animation!

I'm soooo gonna go polearm then :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 03:55:25 pm
really.... noo words enymore, this isnt even worth insulting
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 13, 2012, 04:01:00 pm
Shouldn't be a problem because the 2H thrust is fine.
Yes, for swords.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhygar666 on April 13, 2012, 04:04:01 pm
dont remove + give us the lolaxe and lance of compensation back :evil:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Memento_Mori on April 13, 2012, 04:20:55 pm
I've said this in the past and I'll say it again:

Remove polestagger and give all polearms 2H animations.

You might be kidding but I wish SOME pole arms had alternate 2h animations, maybe minus the silly stab. Would be wicked-cool to be able to adjust grips with say a staff or shortened spear or what not. That's just my opinion though lol.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 13, 2012, 05:04:22 pm
Yeah. Totally fine. You are so right! Please give the pike 2h stab animation!

I'm soooo gonna go polearm then :D
Lol, you are so wrong. The 2h animation would suck as a piker. What makes the 2h stab good? The range, what do you already have? Range. You would be a slow ass pike and suck at close range. Polearm stab is faster and a lot better on close range. I would take a polearmstab pike over a 2hstab pike anyday.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Logen on April 13, 2012, 05:07:23 pm
Oh boy I know how you look at me when we duel, you're one of those hard gays I just know it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8B2bjkVPVE
And now we know who is vibe's role model
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 13, 2012, 06:43:04 pm
Lol, you are so wrong. The 2h animation would suck as a piker. What makes the 2h stab good? The range, what do you already have? Range. You would be a slow ass pike and suck at close range. Polearm stab is faster and a lot better on close range. I would take a polearmstab pike over a 2hstab pike anyday.
Valid point there. But I still would abuse the fuck out of the EVEN LONGER reach! I already drop the pike when people get too close anyway.

Although seriously, anyone thinking that polearms wouldn't be fucked-up OP with the 2h stabs? Lolwut? Think something like the german poleaxe or double-sided lance or whatever with it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 06:54:27 pm
you guys are taking this whole discussion out of context with your retarded views, oooh u want to remove polestagger, give us 2handed animations then qq its our way to try to counterbllance the argument but we are failing misserably.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ronin on April 13, 2012, 07:01:03 pm
Maybe polestagger should be given to all weapons (including ranged, which they have already as it seems) but allow it to happen only when the damage is above 35 (or such) and the hit is in the targets head.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 13, 2012, 07:21:14 pm
Maybe polestagger should be given to all weapons (including ranged, which they have already as it seems) but allow it to happen only when the damage is above 35 (or such) and the hit is in the targets head.
Hitting the head already have a lot of perks, let's give the stagger only on testicle hits!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 07:26:40 pm
this trolling is getting old
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 13, 2012, 09:46:26 pm
you guys are taking this whole discussion out of context with your retarded views, oooh u want to remove polestagger, give us 2handed animations then qq its our way to try to counterbllance the argument but we are failing misserably.

You have provided no logical reasoning for why polearms should not gain anything if they lose polestagger. What's wrong with polearms gaining 2H animations? It's not as if... 2H animations are ridiculously good or anything, right?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Angantyr on April 13, 2012, 10:25:16 pm
I think that anyone who remembers how Long Axes were when they still had a 2h mode will object to that suggestion :)

They are not made for it, and the thought that you can just give all polearms 2h animations is a wierd one if meant seriously, first of all the grip would make no sense, and second the weapons have the stats they have because they were balanced according to their model and animation.

Giving polearms some kind of lolstab animation fix like the one 2h has received would probably be a good idea, however. But in general poles as for example poleaxes have always had a too centered grip in WB, where a wielder IRL will let the topmost hand slide down the shaft to add reach to attacks when needed.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 13, 2012, 10:34:42 pm
I think that anyone who remembers how Long Axes were when they still had a 2h mode will object to that suggestion :)

They are not made for it, and the thought that you can just give all polearms 2h animations is a wierd one if meant seriously, first of all the grip would make no sense, and second the weapons have the stats they have because they were balanced according to their model and animation.

Giving polearms some kind of lolstab animation fix like the one 2h has received could perhaps be a good idea, however, and I don't care if they get a longer thrust out of it. But in general poles as for example poleaxes have always had a too centered grip in WB, where a wielder IRL will let the topmost hand slide down the shaft to add reach to attacks when needed.

It's the point I'm trying to make. Obviously 2H animations on polearms wouldn't make sense for a number of reasons, but the people crying for the removal of polestagger (which I support, as a polearm user) don't seem to realize that polearms are balanced in part around polestagger. Removing polestagger would affect the balance of polearms. That's why I made such a ludicrous suggestion. I can go on about all of the shortcomings of the polearm animations, but I'll choose  not to and instead posit that if you're going to take something away from polearms, you need to give something back to compensate. Whether it's more damage, speed, reach, better animations, etc.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 10:42:37 pm
well thats the thing right there, you are suggesting that polearms would become underpowered if polestagger was removed, i think this is total bs, since there will still be a stun, just not as long a one, and for the rest it would still be as ballanced as it is atm, polestagger imo just dousnt fit in multiplayer, and like said earlier in this thread was implemented to ballance npc using poles in singleplayer(probably because of the bad ai that dousnt keep the distance advantage and would otherwise start glancing instantly after first hit). you come over as seeing this as an oppertunity to lobby for a polearm buff while they dont need it , even if polestagger is removed. this imo is selvish and not morally right towards the ballance for the ''MULTIPLAYER''game as a whole.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Chasey on April 13, 2012, 10:54:18 pm
If polestagger was removed, i dont think polearms would need a buff to compensate , but lets be honest can anybody actually see this getting removed? This thread was made back in october and it hasnt been changed, so its most likely that it wont be changed, so people just need to deal with it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 13, 2012, 10:59:05 pm
If polestagger was removed, i dont think polearms would need a buff to compensate , but lets be honest can anybody actually see this getting removed? This thread was made back in october and it hasnt been changed, so its most likely that it wont be changed, so people just need to deal with it.

well chase it isnt being removed because there are no devs available atm that can be arsed or have the time or actually know how to. that might change ( crosses fingers)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 14, 2012, 11:57:18 am
You know Rufio, when Ujin first started this thread I've told Meow how he'll suck once they remove polestagger. He said to me that won't happen in at least 10 gens of his or more likely, never. Guess he was right.

As Chase said, better deal with it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 14, 2012, 01:12:39 pm
you talk asif  i dont still play crpg dailey  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 14, 2012, 02:49:58 pm
You have provided no logical reasoning for why polearms should not gain anything if they lose polestagger. What's wrong with polearms gaining 2H animations? It's not as if... 2H animations are ridiculously good or anything, right?
The amazing damage advantage they have easily negates the loss of polestagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 14, 2012, 02:58:30 pm
The amazing damage advantage they have easily negates the loss of polestagger.

What damage advantage are you referring to exactly? Everything past the heavy great sword is essentially on par with any of the top tier pole arms in terms of damage stats and speed. The flamberge for example does the same amount of damage as the GLB and isn't unbalanced.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 14, 2012, 03:37:57 pm
The poleaxes have comparable swing damage to the greatswords, but a shitload more stab damage. For example, a german poleaxe is on par with the average greatsword length and speed wise, while having more damage on all fronts. All the axes have really high swing damage.

Although 2h has some gimmicky weapons with very high damage like the morningstar and flamberge, the average joe prefers the all purpose weapon, which generally have higher damage in the polearm class.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on April 14, 2012, 04:03:47 pm
I laugh at people who think removing polestagger won't upset class balance.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 14, 2012, 04:06:27 pm
I laugh at people who think removing polestagger won't upset class balance.

(click to show/hide)
Thank you. Good thing some people got sense in them.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 14, 2012, 04:19:39 pm
I laugh at people who think removing polestagger won't upset class balance.

And we laugh at people like you who have to crutch on it... touche you cant pull your head out of your ass an see it from everyone else point of view an realize how retarded an unnecessary it is..   :wink:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Black Wind on April 14, 2012, 04:21:33 pm
Polestagger is necessary to maintain equalibrium with the melee classes. However, I think it is too easy to abuse with higher wpf. This could be changed perhaps, with the higher weapon speed and/or wpf,the less polestun it has.

If you think I'm a retard, that's ok, and I agree wholeheartedly. But, put a warspear in the hands of, say, a 15:24 build, the opponent will rarely be able to return an attack. Poleaxe is similar, but with an 18:21 build.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on April 14, 2012, 04:36:12 pm
And we laugh at people like you who have to crutch on it... touche you cant pull your head out of your ass an see it from everyone else point of view an realize how retarded an unnecessary it is..   :wink:

And I laugh at people like you who think I play. :D

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 14, 2012, 04:38:16 pm
I laugh at people who think removing polestagger won't upset class balance.

(click to show/hide)
this coming from a polearm user...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 14, 2012, 04:46:23 pm
And I laugh at people like you who think I play. :D

So your saying your not even playing the game anymore  :?: hmn this explains alot i guess..  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 14, 2012, 04:46:38 pm
I laugh at people who think removing polestagger won't upset class balance.

(click to show/hide)
It definitely will upset the class balance. Polearm is the strongest melee class now, the removal of polearm stagger will equalize polearms with the rest. I played a 2h to lvl 32, then a polearmer to lvl 32, then 1 gen of 1h without shield, now doing a gen of 2h, going to level a 1h without shield to 32 next.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on April 14, 2012, 04:56:09 pm
It definitely will upset the class balance. Polearm is the strongest melee class now

Oh, then maybe I should play a bit. Last time I did, a couple of weeks ago, the balance was good... I wonder what happened in the meantime to make polearms so overpowered.

this coming from a polearm user...

this coming from a non-polearm user...

You see the problem with your reasoning?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 14, 2012, 04:57:27 pm
I wouldn't call them overpowered, but I do agree that it's kinda hard to beat someone spamming certain polearms if you use greatswords. I admit I suck against those weapons (glaive, poleaxe, naginatas).

Also those polearms rarely glance, while my german greatsword with 6 ps glance quite a lot.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 14, 2012, 05:05:44 pm
Cmp...  some people including myself used to be polearm a user an we still wanted polestagger gone when posting in this thread.. i dunno im like teeth i switch build n class pretty often just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are lobbying....

I like to play all classes except archery...

Im just like many other people fed up with retarded game mechanism like polestagger....

Why dont you explain to us frustrated people why weapons like the GLA or Poleaxes or glaive ect ect need polestagger  :?:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 14, 2012, 05:20:02 pm
Polearm is the strongest melee class now, the removal of polearm stagger will equalize polearms with the rest.

I think 1H is the best class but that it's a general good balance right now.

The poleaxes have comparable swing damage to the greatswords, but a shitload more stab damage. For example, a german poleaxe is on par with the average greatsword length and speed wise, while having more damage on all fronts.

Only the right swing is comparable length-wise to the greatswords.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on April 14, 2012, 05:20:51 pm
Why dont you explain to us frustrated people why weapons like the GLA or Poleaxes or glaive ect ect need polestagger  :?:

I actually don't think they need polestagger as it is, because I don't really like the "completely random" part of it. However, I also think that taking it out of the equation completely, without even considering the effects that it might have on balance, is just my-class-needs-to-be-stronger lobbying.
Unfortunately, changing the way it works is a quite time consuming task (unlike removing it), so I don't see it happening anytime soon, unless somebody steps up and does it.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 14, 2012, 05:31:08 pm
Oh, then maybe I should play a bit. Last time I did, a couple of weeks ago, the balance was good... I wonder what happened in the meantime to make polearms so overpowered.

There's a world of difference between something being the strongest and being so overpowered. Its more like a subtle advantage. Ofcourse this is a very personal opinion, playing as a polearmer felt the easiest to me. The German poleaxe is overall the best infantry weapon in my book. Even when they are just balanced with the other melee classes, polearm gives you versatility like no other. Being a lancer or a pikeman, its all possible with polearm wpf. This makes polearm the best class.

I think 1H is the best class but that it's a general good balance right now.

Only the right swing is comparable length-wise to the greatswords.
Which is half the attacks you use anyway, oh and the rightswing is as long as the overhead, don't underestimate the range of the polearm overhead. Used a german poleaxe for the bulk of my polearm time and I never felt at a disadvantage range wise or speed wise, however I felt a big advantage damage wise compared to my time as a greatsworder.

You mean shielders or do you mean 1h without a shield?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 14, 2012, 05:50:50 pm
I actually don't think they need polestagger as it is, because I don't really like the "completely random" part of it. However, I also think that taking it out of the equation completely, without even considering the effects that it might have on balance, is just my-class-needs-to-be-stronger lobbying.

I cant see how polearms would become obsolete or even useless or bad if you removed the polestagger i dont know what your talking about when talking about removing polestagger completely would upset balance tbh..  :?

Are you thinking about how pikes/spears would work without polestagger  :?: is it the animation/reach diffrence between polearms/2h/1h  :?:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 14, 2012, 05:51:47 pm
You mean shielders or do you mean 1h without a shield?

Good shielders. A good player with the protection of a shield is incredibly hard to take down compared to a good player with a two-hander/polearm. I don't think shielder is the best class for bad players, but the increased survivability you grant a good player with a shield make them a formidable force to be reckoned with. More so then by giving them a polearm/two-hander.

Which is half the attacks you use anyway

Which shows a problem with polearms. 1H have four good attacking animations, same does 2H, while polearm have a garbage of an animation which leaves them with only three good ones (shit left swing)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 14, 2012, 05:58:39 pm
I think 1H is the best class but that it's a general good balance right now.

1H is the best because it's the only normal class out there that doesn't rely on douchebagery like other (longer) weapons.

But it's hardest to get great scores as 1H.

It's easiest to score good with your build and weapon. Low risk, great rewards, kill stealing all the time.

But I do understand why you think 1H is strong. It's the rare melee class that can reliably kill pikemen :wink:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 14, 2012, 07:02:34 pm
Which shows a problem with polearms. 1H have four good attacking animations, same does 2H, while polearm have a garbage of an animation which leaves them with only three good ones (shit left swing)
True

1H is the best because it's the only normal class out there that doesn't rely on douchebagery like other (longer) weapons.
I dare to call the leftswingspam that most 1h do douchebaggery.

But it's hardest to get great scores as 1H.

But I do understand why you think 1H is strong. It's the rare melee class that can reliably kill everyone :wink:
Fixed that for you, people really suck at blocking 1h.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 14, 2012, 07:13:54 pm
While it is true that a lot of people fail at blocking 1h it is also true that it takes forever to kill someone in good armor unless the RNG gods are on your side.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on April 14, 2012, 07:45:08 pm
While it is true that a lot of people fail at blocking 1h it is also true that it takes forever to kill someone in good armor unless the RNG gods are on your side.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 14, 2012, 09:02:55 pm
While it is true that a lot of people fail at blocking 1h it is also true that it takes forever to kill someone in good armor unless the RNG gods are on your side.
Didn't have too much trouble with 8 ps, 35c damage and getting easy headhits. In a 1 vs 1 you can kill someone fast cause they'll miss a lot more blocks than with a slow 2h. Its just that if you can't focus on enemy you'll just tickle a handful of em, cause you can't get those headhits as easily at range.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 14, 2012, 09:56:40 pm
I actually don't think they need polestagger as it is, because I don't really like the "completely random" part of it. However, I also think that taking it out of the equation completely, without even considering the effects that it might have on balance, is just my-class-needs-to-be-stronger lobbying.
Unfortunately, changing the way it works is a quite time consuming task (unlike removing it), so I don't see it happening anytime soon, unless somebody steps up and does it.

People need to listen to you more.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 15, 2012, 03:09:24 am
Listen up cmpx, polearms are strong these days but just two of them are real issue, pikes.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 15, 2012, 04:21:32 am
butthurt much?  :mrgreen:
I would guess you'd be butthurt if someone rammed a pike up yer arse :/
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: cmp on April 15, 2012, 11:03:22 am
TBH, I don't have a problem with Pike/Long Spear losing stagger completely. It's balancers' call, though.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vote on April 15, 2012, 11:25:41 am
TBH, I don't have a problem with Pike/Long Spear losing stagger completely. It's balancers' call, though.

The problem is your balancers dont play the mod. Paul play sometimes rageball but even there he doesnt melee.
The other problem is that your beta testers dont play regular builds, like kingrim with his builds like 12/27 3 ps, 9, shield, skill, 9 athletics and some sort of steal pick.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 15, 2012, 05:23:47 pm
TBH, I don't have a problem with Pike/Long Spear losing stagger completely. It's balancers' call, though.

No, stagger can stay but you should remove option to jump with it. That will fix many things but support role of pikes won't be changed much.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: _Tak_ on April 15, 2012, 05:52:09 pm
Yes remove the ability to jump while using a pike is a nice solution
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 15, 2012, 07:40:22 pm
Oh, then maybe I should play a bit. Last time I did, a couple of weeks ago, the balance was good... I wonder what happened in the meantime to make polearms so overpowered.

this coming from a non-polearm user...

You see the problem with your reasoning?


cmp your a nuub who never plays, what happened in the meantime is more people got good at this game, il say it once more polestagger is not a pvp multiplayer implemented ballance, giving a class a longer stun is totally retarded, and  like said was probably implemented to counter bad ai,
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Kafein on April 15, 2012, 07:57:52 pm
I'd say if anything, remove the polestagger from all polearms, except a few 2-directional ones. The real problem is those stupid moments you are stunlocked by whatever small stick is capable of that... Or when the stagger makes hiltslashing with a GLA-like waaaaay too easy.

The issue with pikes and long spears isn't as serious IMO. Those two should be strong teamplay weapons and useless without teammates. Removing the jump with them seems like a good idea. Also, increase their weight.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on April 15, 2012, 07:59:00 pm
Insulting devs is not aceptable. We have to make an example of this. Polestagger stays.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 15, 2012, 08:10:44 pm
why need to insult devs in first place if they already make fools of themselves  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 15, 2012, 10:27:56 pm
I'm a piker and support the suggestion of removing jump-stabs
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 15, 2012, 10:44:29 pm
Insulting devs is not aceptable. We have to make an example of this. Polestagger stays.

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 08:49:14 am
Unfortunately, changing the way it works is a quite time consuming task (unlike removing it), so I don't see it happening anytime soon, unless somebody steps up and does it.

Well you heard the bossman. Honestly, completely removing polestagger would make poles UP compared to 2h (except for a few like Glaive wupwup). What I'd do is just reduce polestagger so you don't get those unblockable hits in anymore, because that's what's really ridiculous.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 08:55:06 am
polestagger is just that, making a normal stun last long enough for a second hit to be put in. just make it a normal stun again, and where did you conclude it would be up to remove polestagger? because a dev whos main is a polearmplayer who never plays enymore posts his personal ingame experience?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 08:57:33 am
polestagger is just that, making a normal stun last long enough for a second hit to be put in. just make it a normal stun again, and where did you conclude it would be up to remove polestagger? because a dev whos main is a polearmplayer who never plays enymore posts his personal ingame experience?

Because poles in general are shorter than 2h (this is counting the animations) and their models are easier to read, if you ask me. Also pole left swing is quite useless.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 16, 2012, 08:59:06 am
I'm willing to lobby and petition day and night to remove the pole arm insta spin thrust if you'll stop posting with the same tired, moot points Rufio.(I'm trying to meet you half way here).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 09:09:57 am
why i keep repeating this is because people come with stupid arguments like noo its  not op with lower wpf builds, ( witch is still a lie ) .If i hit you with my polearm : glance or full hit>> you will get staggered > and me actually knowing what im doing unlike 90% of fucktards saying polestagger is fine, is il hiltslash  your ass after that glance or hit, and that slash will hit you hard as hell and you wont be able to do enything about it. also in group combat, my hit will stun you , and only wont you be able to blcok, you will also be stuck in movement, meaning you're a free hit for melee and ranged. also every damn pro player ( chase , gurnisson , and many more ) who have posted in this thread, and whom actually dominate ingame and are known within the community to be some of the best! and whom all are polearm mains or have played alot of gens as polearmer, concur and agree fully that polestagger needs to go. and that it wouldnt affect ballance in a negative way. so yes i will continue with these arguments and lobbying and no idc about you meeting me halfway wtf is that about gtfo.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 16, 2012, 09:26:14 am
why i keep repeating this is because people come with stupid arguments like noo its  not op with lower wpf builds, ( witch is still a lie ) .If i hit you with my polearm : glance or full hit>> you will get staggered > and me actually knowing what im doing unlike 90% of fucktards saying polestagger is fine, is il hiltslash  your ass after that glance or hit, and that slash will hit you hard as hell and you wont be able to do enything about it. also in group combat, my hit will stun you , and only wont you be able to blcok, you will also be stuck in movement, meaning you're a free hit for melee and ranged. also every damn pro player ( chase , gurnisson , and many more ) who have posted in this thread, and whom actually dominate ingame and are known within the community to be some of the best! and whom all are polearm mains or have played alot of gens as polearmer, concur and agree fully that polestagger needs to go. and that it wouldnt affect ballance in a negative way. so yes i will continue with these arguments and lobbying and no idc about you meeting me halfway wtf is that about gtfo.

Your rage makes me so happy. It's simply a shame that you're not on NA; you could be the next farmer nate.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 16, 2012, 09:32:52 am
why i keep repeating this is because people come with stupid arguments like noo its  not op with lower wpf builds, ( witch is still a lie ) .If i hit you with my polearm : glance or full hit>> you will get staggered > and me actually knowing what im doing unlike 90% of fucktards saying polestagger is fine, is il hiltslash  your ass after that glance or hit, and that slash will hit you hard as hell and you wont be able to do enything about it. also in group combat, my hit will stun you , and only wont you be able to blcok, you will also be stuck in movement, meaning you're a free hit for melee and ranged. also every damn pro player ( chase , gurnisson , and many more ) who have posted in this thread, and whom actually dominate ingame and are known within the community to be some of the best! and whom all are polearm mains or have played alot of gens as polearmer, concur and agree fully that polestagger needs to go. and that it wouldnt affect ballance in a negative way. so yes i will continue with these arguments and lobbying and no idc about you meeting me halfway wtf is that about gtfo.

It was basically my half joking way of calling you a biased idiot that needs to stop posting. What's more, people have already responded on several occasions in response to your points, only to have you write them off as skillless idiots who don't know what they are talking about. Yes, Polestagger is stupid, yes it's annoying, but so are plenty of other mechanics in game(people have been giving examples for a while now but I doubt you actually read through any post that wasn't of similar nature to yours or tzar's),so I really don't care that much and it certainly isn't game breaking.  You also managed to bring out the "all the good players agree" argument. Great work.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 09:46:03 am
Polestagger is the only flaw of its kind in crpg. the other responses in this thread trying to counter polestagger issue with an animation issue or what not are worthless arguments. all other annoying mechanic's flaws are counterable through practice and skill, but polestagger isnt, witch makes it gamebreaking yes, and yes ima go put you in the worhtless nuub box to now. thanks for your oppinion thow it did add alot to the discussion.

oh and edit* yes ima use the good players argument, its like you know when you go to somone for an oppinion, you tend to listen to those of whom you know are experienced in the field and have stuck great time into learning about all the different aspects of that field. but ye i guess youd rather just listen to the oppinions and arguments that fit your vision best.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Darkkarma on April 16, 2012, 09:54:28 am
Great points, i'm going to practice countering kick slashes, bump lances and bump slashes in the duel server right now!

Seriously though, you're an idiot and im just going to acknowledge that and leave you to it.


And no, I don't believe that people understand how to balance a game simply from being good at it, sorry.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Rhaelys on April 16, 2012, 09:54:59 am
but ye i guess youd rather just listen to the oppinions and arguments that fit your vision best.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 09:58:15 am
kick slash isnt that bad, but have you ever been kick slash > slashed?  guess i got you there maybe? you arent gonna ever come out victorious by only proclaiming me an idiot, since you seem to think polestagger is fine. i really dont care much for what you think of me, what i care about is this topic and where it is going. ''polestagger must go'''!!

*edit, not only good , but the best, dude you clearly dont know these players, and what they are in the eu community, to blow off theyr oppinions because you have no knowledge of theyr skill and understanding of the game, through all classes not only 1. is maybe abit idiotic on itself, me ofc i might og overboard with the nuub, and scrub slander inbetween my posts, but hey idc im not at work here, atleast i understand what bs polestagger is and i know its different then a bump slash or bumplance.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Paul on April 16, 2012, 10:19:11 am
My suggestion for making polestagger deterministic still stays. Instead of the 50% chance one could make it so that a polestagger only happens if the target is doing an attack animation at the moment he is hit. With that stun locks would be impossible. Alternatively it could be a key_is_down check for the attack button, if that is possible serverside. But maybe then the time window is too small.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 10:29:54 am
i would like to know why polestagger should stay ballance wise in multiplayer? ive try'd to think of arguments people could give but failed.
what paul suggests could work but totally removing it would be eazier i think and would still not make polearms up.

*edit: work in duels, i think it wouldnt matter in the teamplay, since if you switch targets or hit people in the back, polestagger is still sertain death asin hits from other weps in the back dont stun you so horribly.
*secondedit: i hope you mean 50% chance when in attack move, not remove 50% and then make the attack move manditory, other wise if its only the attack move but 100% that would be a crazy ass buff and make polestagger even more op.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on April 16, 2012, 10:42:42 am
polestun is an amazing feature, it should stay in the game forever
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 10:44:10 am
xant i heard theyr gonna remake beowulf and grendell, and they still casting people to play grendell , i think you will be the ideal candidate!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 12:34:26 pm
Hey bundle of stickss,

My name is 2handerPr0kdz, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day abusing polestagger. You are everything bad in cRPG. Honestly, have any of you ever tried any other weapon? I mean, I guess it's fun polestaggerning people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than bumplancing.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best stagger. I'm pretty much perfect. I was a pro in all games I played, and leader of a clan in strat. What games do you play, other than "be gay and spam polestagger"? I also get 10+ KDs, and have a banging hot Danish Greatsword (i just hiltslashed with it; Shit was SO cash). You are all bundle of stickss who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 16, 2012, 01:51:42 pm
herpa derp derp i crutch on polestagger must respond in thread with an idiotic none constructive way because i ran out of fail arguments derp derp

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Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 02:03:16 pm
How does a 1h crutch on polestagger, Tzar?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 16, 2012, 02:43:15 pm
Remove polestagger for a week and see how it goes. If polearms turn out to weak, which I highly doubt, buff them in other ways, or change polestagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: Logen on April 16, 2012, 02:56:37 pm
no they should add the same stagger to all other weapons
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on April 16, 2012, 03:14:03 pm
Left swing of one handed weapons demands stagger!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 04:01:25 pm
Hey bundle of stickss,

My name is 2handerPr0kdz, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day abusing polestagger. You are everything bad in cRPG. Honestly, have any of you ever tried any other weapon? I mean, I guess it's fun polestaggerning people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than bumplancing.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best stagger. I'm pretty much perfect. I was a pro in all games I played, and leader of a clan in strat. What games do you play, other than "be gay and spam polestagger"? I also get 10+ KDs, and have a banging hot Danish Greatsword (i just hiltslashed with it; Shit was SO cash). You are all bundle of stickss who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

Pic related: It's me owning you

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ever heard of: never go full retard? you just did...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 04:09:36 pm
After reading almost every polearm versus 2h thread I have come to one conclusion:

None of the real good 2handers in cRPG actually cares about polestagger, takes part in that "discussion" and if, only with funny and sarcastic comments.
Only mediocre to semi-good 2hand players whine like little crybabies  :mrgreen:

Quickly, cast the flameshield!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 04:14:22 pm
oh god when people start saying ranged qq is because people are 2hander i can still understand where the troll comes from and it has some basis to stand on. but when people start trying to troll on 2hander skills in a polestagger thread, kinda cant even be bothered to react to this, seems this thread is more a way for sertain people to act tough and cool in instead of actually caring about the topic, its cool warlord come in here and mend your broken soul by trying to feed of the tears of others its ok i dont mind being a target for people so transparent and obvious, come come type your heart out kid, this is your chance to also join the full retard squad, and have a sense of belonging.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 04:20:42 pm
Rufio, the Biased 2hander Club would like to invite you to join them
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 04:21:37 pm
yeah so you insult me then insultme on the basis of me insulting you back and then insult me again and claim i can only insult, yeaaaaaaaaah, maybe better think out what your saying before making a fool of yourself.

and vibe i like how your trying to say polestagger is ok because only biased 2handers complain about it , and try make it rufio vs polestagger in your argumentation. if this is not the case and you are just trying to target me  , gl with that, maybe better you come ts and have a chat with me then , works way better, maybe il come your ts and have a chat with you, and you can explain why you specificly have the feeling targeting me will get you enywhere? idea maybe buddy boy?>
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on April 16, 2012, 04:34:52 pm
After reading almost every polearm versus 2h thread I have come to one conclusion:

None of the real good 2handers in cRPG actually cares about polestagger, takes part in that "discussion" and if, only with funny and sarcastic comments.
Only mediocre to semi-good 2hand players whine like little crybabies  :mrgreen:
The difference(currently and in general) between two-handed and polearms are as following...

Two-Handed
- ...?

Polearm
- More damage.
- Better thrust.
- First strike with longer reach.
- Bonus against shields.
- Hit stun. Stagger effect when hit.
- Weapon stun, polearms are generally heavier.
- Horse stopping thrust.
- Cavalry equipment - lances.
- Anti-cav and support - pikes. Oh and lets not forget that you can thrust-curve around teammates and overhead through teammates on enemies.

I doubt two-handed has any edge at all, no reason to go two-handed, polearms is vastly superior in every way possible.
YEAH RIGHT
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Brrrak on April 16, 2012, 04:37:00 pm
Hey bundle of stickss,

My name is 2handerPr0kdz, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day abusing polestagger. You are everything bad in cRPG. Honestly, have any of you ever tried any other weapon? I mean, I guess it's fun polestaggerning people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than bumplancing.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best stagger. I'm pretty much perfect. I was a pro in all games I played, and leader of a clan in strat. What games do you play, other than "be gay and spam polestagger"? I also get 10+ KDs, and have a banging hot Danish Greatsword (i just hiltslashed with it; Shit was SO cash). You are all bundle of stickss who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

Pic related: It's me owning you

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Oh, look, it's this thread again.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 04:40:47 pm
i like how you mix up game ballance and player skill, and i also giggle abit imagining you sitting behind the pc posting what you post, with a grin on your face thinking :: i trolled them well this time, im a master troll, i love the word troll, yeaaah.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 16, 2012, 04:41:52 pm
Phyrex is/was a great 2H and I was not impressed by him when he went polearm with GLA. Your point being, BlackMilk?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 16, 2012, 04:42:22 pm
maybe il come your ts and have a chat with you, and you can explain why you specificly have the feeling targeting me will get you enywhere? idea maybe buddy boy?>

I have moderator rights in our ts and I am happy to move you into the same channel with Vibe. I just want to hear this! :lol:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 04:49:17 pm
first you say its only mediocre 2handers that complain about polestagger, then when called bs on (witch i didnt even bother with ) you turn it arround and say well you know hes not good with  polearm you know.... how can that be... : i can tell you i lose 1/20 duels with Tor, but when he goes 2hander hes not that impressive. you son seem like your grasping arround not having anybasis to stand on.

*
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on April 16, 2012, 04:53:08 pm
first you say its only mediocre 2handers that complain about polestagger, then when called bs on (witch i didnt even bother with ) you turn it arround and say well you know hes not good with  polearm you know.... how can that be... : i can tell you i lose 1/20 duels with Tor, but when he goes 2hander hes not that impressive. you son seem like your grasping arround not having anybasis to stand on.

Yes, Tor is a bad two-hander, that's why he only got second place in the dueling tournament as one. :P
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 04:56:43 pm
ah fuck you gurni, tor is better with polearm then with 2hander, i dont know witch duel tournament this was, but ye il say in groupplay hes not as good then. just talking from my experience playing wiht him
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 05:01:18 pm
and i only hated on you for hating on me  :wink:

* i lose from tor evenfaster because of polestagger thow :3
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Teeth on April 16, 2012, 05:23:02 pm
So if polearm is better than 2h in every way possible, how is it possible that one of the best 2h players sucks hard with polearms?
Simple, cause Phyrex is a good 2h because he has been a 2h for thousands of hours and was a really good lolstabber, he used/abused all the 2h tricks there are. When you change class there are a whole bunch of new tricks, but it takes time before you learn these. A handful of hours of polearm experience does not compare to thousands of hours of 2h.

Just like Tor abuses everything there is to abuse about polearms. While blocking and attacking stays the same if you change class, pretty much everything else changes. You need to adjust chamber timing, range control and need to learn a whole new batch of tricks and moves and forget the old ones.

That being said. I changed from 2h to polearm and did a lot better. For me polearm is the easiest class and if I look at the stats I can see why.

Lets assume 1 vs 1 duel for this:

When I fight Tor (polearm Tor), I loose almost always.
When I fight Phyrex (2h Phyrex), I loose almost always.

When I fight Phyrex (polearm Phyrex) I win almost always.

Conclusion: Polearm can´t be OP in any way, because that would mean I would have to beat 2h Phyrex also.
I'm just hoping you're not a scientist.

Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 05:31:28 pm
thank you for taking the time teeth, i couldnt be arsed xD
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 05:37:11 pm
well by excluding it in an example where it is clearly included in practice, is not good argumentation :) ah well enough for me for today, good to see we went back to civil conversation :3
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on April 16, 2012, 05:38:03 pm
blah blah blah in the end it was your fault to get staggered in the first place.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: rufio on April 16, 2012, 05:39:03 pm
ye it was your fault so you deserve to get a second hit , and it was his reward for getting a hit on you , deal with it it is the will of the gods.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 16, 2012, 05:39:32 pm
good to see we went back to civil conversation :3
Can you still come to our ts to give Vibe a little shouting? :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 16, 2012, 06:38:59 pm
All this delicious whine!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Xant on April 17, 2012, 07:59:09 pm
tl;dr Tor sucks and is a nab
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Slev23 on April 17, 2012, 08:25:51 pm
Polestagger is annoying, and I kind of wish they would remove, but... it would make a chunk of weapons useless. Any spear relies on the horizontal stagger to be truly effective. If you removed polestagger, red tassel and warspear would be useless, since battle fork and awlpike with be basically improved version.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vkvkvk on April 18, 2012, 04:30:26 am
Polestagger is annoying, and I kind of wish they would remove, but... it would make a chunk of weapons useless. Any spear relies on the horizontal stagger to be truly effective. If you removed polestagger, red tassel and warspear would be useless, since battle fork and awlpike with be basically improved version.

Keep it on spears as it was originally supposed to be, Polestagger was to help spears and the likes, it just so happens to really really help the higher end polearms that do already shitload of damage.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on April 19, 2012, 02:32:34 am
Polestagger is annoying, and I kind of wish they would remove, but... it would make a chunk of weapons useless. Any spear relies on the horizontal stagger to be truly effective. If you removed polestagger, red tassel and warspear would be useless, since battle fork and awlpike with be basically improved version.

So they are low tier weapons why shouldn't the higher tier be better?

Polestagger was to help spears and the likes

Polestagger was to help retarded AI inf not human beings...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on April 19, 2012, 02:52:43 pm
So they are low tier weapons why shouldn't the higher tier be better?

Polestagger was to help retarded AI inf not human beings...
Top tier? Da fuck? Warspear is 6.8k. That's above Long Spear/Pike, Morningstar, Longsword and Bar Mace, and still in the area of Long Axe and Great Bardiche. Since when were those considered "low tier"?

But that's also one of the things I've been trying to say. If you remove the polestun, then make the spears cheaper. They should be the cheap efficient polearms, not the mid tier ones.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on May 17, 2012, 01:46:23 pm
Plz remove this free hit magic shit bundle of sticksry  :wink:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Fartface on May 17, 2012, 01:57:45 pm
I realy dont care about polestagger  , when I'm 2hander again it's with 13 ps so he might get an extra hit if he hits me but I one hit him . Also gonna try 39/3 polearmer with either +3 bec or +3 GLB , I got an feeling this is gonna be so OP it's either a onehit or polestagger and then  hit for kill .
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Kafein on May 17, 2012, 02:58:01 pm
tl;dr Tor sucks and is a nab

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Tzar on May 18, 2012, 12:42:01 pm
Plz fix this shit its really ruining the combat  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ronin on May 31, 2012, 07:36:07 pm
No keep the polestagger, or my hoplite alt would have nothing :cry:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on May 31, 2012, 07:40:08 pm
No keep the polestagger, or my hoplite alt would have nothing :cry:

Eh? Hoplite is epic, you just got to be flexible with the use of the shield.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ronin on May 31, 2012, 07:50:54 pm
Eh? Hoplite is epic, you just got to be flexible with the use of the shield.
Of course it is epic. THIS IS SWADIAAAA!!!
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on May 31, 2012, 07:53:34 pm
Polestagger is stupid. I used a +3 german poleaxe a bit last gen with a 21/18. It's completely retarded that I can often sneak in a strong side-swing after a stab or vica versa
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 02, 2012, 01:43:56 am
what annoys the shit out of me is to get staggered on a 1% hit  :evil:
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on June 02, 2012, 02:00:09 am
I bet this will be removed the moment I respec to polearms...
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on June 02, 2012, 02:02:19 am
I bet this will be removed the moment I respec to polearms...

I doubt there are many polearmers who actually like this.

It's:

1. Random which sucks big, hairy balls

2. Fucking lame; it doesn't really add anything to gameplay (except rage)

3. Easily replaced with a stats buff
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on June 02, 2012, 02:39:16 am
I doubt there are many polearmers who actually like this.

QFT

But if it goes, it takes shield/spear with it as well, would need a serious overhaul on that one anyway.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on June 02, 2012, 08:40:38 am
haha Dezi 90% of the polearmers RELY on the polestagger, especially Glaive or LHB users.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stun in the next patch please.
Post by: San on June 02, 2012, 09:53:51 am
Hoplite would be so much more fun if it was fast and reliable without polestagger.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on June 02, 2012, 06:46:19 pm
Hoplite would be so much more fun if it was fast and reliable without polestagger.

I would seriously make my main a spear/shielder if this happens.

That's what I wanted to play as in 2010 the first time anyway.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Frankysan on June 04, 2012, 05:19:37 pm
haha Dezi 90% of the polearmers RELY on the polestagger, especially Glaive or LHB users.
very very false
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: v/onMega on June 05, 2012, 11:17:50 am
46 or more cut/over 30 pierce srsly needs stagger on top.
Not.

245 or more range srsly needs stagger on top.
Not.

Not saying polearmers rely on stagger in a 1on1. You need certain builds and weapons to do so. Few have em.

What kills the fun is the fact that melee combat against a long spear/awlpiker + X means = One mistake will make you fall in 95% of the cases.

Its not the polearmer getting the second / third hit, but the guy(s) with him.

So extreme output and perfect teamplay / helping abilities really justify stagger?

I say no, a careful selection of polearms should keep it. Thats it.

Saying something different is pure lobbyism (yes, i played german poleaxe/long awlpiker last gen, it was easy).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on June 05, 2012, 01:17:25 pm
(click to show/hide)

I'm in complete disagreement with you. Pike and Long Spear can keep it for all that I care, that's part of their role. Getting 2 hits in for one enemy mistake with poleaxes, long axes, glaive, bardiches etc. is just a joke. Maybe the stagger duration could be shortened a bit. If not, they should just get rid off it and buff polearms stat-wise.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Dezilagel on June 05, 2012, 01:29:20 pm
I'm in complete disagreement with you. Pike and Long Spear can keep it for all that I care, that's part of their role. Getting 2 hits in for one enemy mistake with poleaxes, long axes, glaive, bardiches etc. is just a joke. Maybe the stagger duration could be shortened a bit. If not, they should just get rid off it and buff polearms stat-wise.

If ANY weapon should keep it then the stagger mechanic should be changed so that it's not random like it is now imo. Urist wrote something about changing it so that it activates if the opponent has an attack chambered or something a while ago, but really I personally think the whole mechanic is quite lame. Losing control of your character sucks balls in most games, even more so in an environment such as Warband's where you don't have a substantial HP bar, and one random knockdown/stagger/horsebump (seriously, fix the low-speed bumps) is often fatal to your character.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Gurnisson on June 05, 2012, 01:30:10 pm
seriously, fix the low-speed bumps
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on June 06, 2012, 02:00:38 am
Polearms =  Easy mode

Especially long ones like Poleaxes and Long Bardiche.

Hit once -> Sidestep -> Hit second time -> Keep it up until enemy is dead

If you don't polestagger on the first hit, keep blocking/attacking.

Next time training grounds are mine :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on June 06, 2012, 04:04:13 am
Polearms =  Easy mode

2h über pike lolswords = Easy mode

1h scimitar/pick spamming = Easy mode

Don't try to overglorify your playstyle like it's the most skill demanding one in the game. It isn't.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on June 06, 2012, 04:13:34 am
2h über pike lolswords = Easy mode

1h scimitar/pick spamming = Easy mode

Don't try to overglorify your playstyle like it's the most skill demanding one in the game. It isn't.

2h - downblock until you hear it connected with your block
1h left spam - hold your block!

Both are annoying, I do agree. Greatswords are OP, that's for sure. But polestagger isn't silly broken, it's awesome :D
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: HarunYahya on June 06, 2012, 04:17:30 am
Remove everything and add lightsabers already !
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on June 06, 2012, 05:52:58 am
2h über pike lolswords = Easy mode

1h scimitar/pick spamming = Easy mode

Don't try to overglorify your playstyle like it's the most skill demanding one in the game. It isn't.
how in the world is 1h easymode?
you get kicked all the time, the range sucks, damage is crap, your shield breaks all the time due to polearms, crushthrough weapons and cav kill you all the time etc
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Christo on June 06, 2012, 07:06:15 am
how in the world is 1h easymode?
you get kicked all the time, the range sucks, damage is crap, your shield breaks all the time due to polearms, crushthrough weapons and cav kill you all the time etc

Reading comprehension 1/10

I said scimitar/pick spamming.

Not all 1h.

Tell me, how is the damage crap on the steel pick, how is the scimitar crap also.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: v/onMega on June 06, 2012, 07:29:32 am
Christo.

Name one guy except kinngrimm being able to spam you with his pick.

Srsly, he is the only one I know having the build to do it. Other then that its not like picks dominate.

Sorry.

EScimitar is one of the worst choices you can make as a 1h (there is 6-7 weapons being better)

One thing I recon though, if u still use ur elegant poleaxe (like you used too), you dont have a great weapon yourself...maybe thats why ur argumentation is that way?

2h is great, just like polearms are (without the stagger)
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Vibe on June 06, 2012, 07:39:18 am
Imo,

2h eez mode, but so is Pole.
1h is effective, but was fucking depressing to play due to amount of teamhits and tincans (seriously, I glanced 80% of the time on loomed cans with 7 PS and 130 wpf, what is this shit).


As for stagger, it should be reduced by about 50%, not removed. Just so you can't get free hits in, but is still effective for battle.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: BlackMilk on June 06, 2012, 10:41:09 am
Reading comprehension 1/10

I said scimitar/pick spamming.

Not all 1h.

Tell me, how is the damage crap on the steel pick, how is the scimitar crap also.
scimitar is a 1h I guess? to spam a scimitar you have to facehug->easy kicks for the opponent.
33 cut damage is...crap, range is...decent. sometimes you can outrange a bec user if he fails hard, but mostly you have to block first.
your shield breaks all the time due to all top tier polearms being axes, crushthrough weapons and cav kill you. 0 chance to kill a lancer and crushthrough weapons..well you better run when you spot one
I don't see how that's easymode really.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Bobthehero on June 06, 2012, 11:08:52 am
I agree vs cav due to lack of stab, but its speed makes it hellish to fight agaisn't as a mauler.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 06, 2012, 05:22:27 pm
Imo,

2h eez mode, but so is Pole.
1h is effective, but was fucking depressing to play due to amount of teamhits and tincans (seriously, I glanced 80% of the time on loomed cans with 7 PS and 130 wpf, what is this shit).


As for stagger, it should be reduced by about 50%, not removed. Just so you can't get free hits in, but is still effective for battle.

im feeling so fustrated, hit loads of enemies but get little kills, glance so often and get teamhit twice as much as when i was pole
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on June 06, 2012, 06:41:22 pm
im feeling so fustrated, hit loads of enemies but get little kills, glance so often and get teamhit twice as much as when i was pole
What are you now?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 06, 2012, 07:17:27 pm
What are you now?

1h
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on June 06, 2012, 07:26:26 pm
1h
No throwing?
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 06, 2012, 07:35:20 pm
No throwing?

yes but i cut the thowing down a bit
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Jarlek on June 07, 2012, 12:16:09 am
yes but i cut the thowing down a bit
yay.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Muki on June 07, 2012, 03:57:48 am
Christo.

Name one guy except kinngrimm being able to spam you with his pick.

Srsly, he is the only one I know having the build to do it. Other then that its not like picks dominate.

Sorry.


San, Sual
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Patoson on June 07, 2012, 04:24:47 am
Removing polestagger would be like taking away a toy from a child ->  :cry:

I bet Tor or Chase would still beat the crap out of us all without polestagger the same way they do now. But the problem is every polearm user who is not as skilled as those two can't play without it, so they don't want to have their toy taken away.

I think it would be a good idea to remove polestagger completely, while replacing the stab animation of greatswords with the one of polearms, because stab with greatswords is terribly OP as well and not really realistic (it looks as if the sword should fall from your hands while stabbing). I think that would please both two-handers and "polestaggers". :P
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Leshma on June 09, 2012, 12:38:40 am
You can lock this thread.
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: bruce on June 09, 2012, 01:27:18 am
Only spinning stabs are lol (but they're lol with polearms, too).
Title: Re: Remove the polearm stagger in the next patch please.
Post by: Ujin on June 09, 2012, 11:40:44 am
VICTORY FOR ZE SPEZ MARINZ