Poll

Please specify how item classes should be changed: (v0.223)

Buff horses
192 (7%)
Buff armor
162 (5.9%)
Buff one handed weapons
195 (7.1%)
Buff two handed weapons
140 (5.1%)
Buff polearms
98 (3.6%)
Buff shield
120 (4.4%)
Buff thrown
264 (9.6%)
Buff bow
151 (5.5%)
Buff crossbow
85 (3.1%)
Nerf horses
144 (5.2%)
Nerf armor
80 (2.9%)
Nerf one handed weapons
79 (2.9%)
Nerf two handed weapons
180 (6.5%)
Nerf polearms
209 (7.6%)
Nerf shield
117 (4.2%)
Nerf thrown
89 (3.2%)
Nerf bow
153 (5.5%)
Nerf crossbow
174 (6.3%)
Leave everything as is. (overrides all other options)
125 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 973

Voting closed: May 31, 2011, 02:13:07 pm

Author Topic: Official Survey about item power  (Read 74322 times)

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Offline Templar_Ratigan

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2011, 08:40:16 pm »
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Ive always thought some armour could do with a slight buff, nothing too fancy as heavily armoured foes with ironflesh are still pretty nasty, but even though I hardly ever wear heavy armour ive never really had trouble vs it.

As for throwing, I dont mind what you do these days, just leave stones alone  :mrgreen:.
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Offline Heroin

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2011, 09:33:50 pm »
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May I say that it is likely the average player will vote to buff their most used playstyle and nerf their natural counter. I don't see how this will give you any accurate data, but welcome the chance to offer honest feedback nonetheless.

I didn't do this. I didn't vote to nerf anything at all, actually. I voted to buff the following, which I feel were overnerfed in various ways: Two Handers, Throwing, Crossbows, and Shields.

Extended explanations of each to follow:

Two Handers - Essentially, the role they are meant to fill is that of shock troops, meant to do great damage at long melee range. With the recent nerf to 2h swords thrust damage, I don't think they fill that role well. I did some quick comparing of stats between 1h and 2h, and currently 1h sword thrusts do more damage than a larger, 2 handed weapons thrust. The BEST thrusting weapons from both the 1h and 2h categories are, respectively, the Espada Eslavona, and the German greatsword. If each are heirloomed 3x, the espada does 32 pierce, while the german greatsword does only 27. This is a fairly significant difference in thrust damage, considering that the role of the two hander is to do more damage with longer reach than 1 handers, giving up the defensive benefit of a shield. Additionally, many of the specialty weapons that two-handers had have been nerfed and/or reclassed into something different. Pretty much all of the crush-through weapons have lost crush-through, with the exception of the very slow hammers, which have also been nerfed in weight. The only crush-through weapons left don't crush through often, and are not really good weapon options at the moment due to slow speeds, 2 slots, high weight(slows you down), unbalanced, and unreliable crushthrough. Some weapons, such as the bar mace, long iron mace, etc, have completely lost crushthrough, when a better option, in my opinion, would have been to simply lower their weight. Additionally, many of these weapons base damage has been nerfed on top of their losing a core component of their utility. All of this while maintaining the "unbalanced" flag makes these weapons a sucker's choice, imo.

Throwing was nerfed into uselessness. None of the throwing weapons that do decent damage are feasible to use without being a dedicated thrower. Even the ones that DO have "decent damage" don't kill people who aren't already hurt. A dedicated thrower doesn't get enough ammo to make any significant impact on a battle. Since this last patch, on a server with 100 people, I might see 2 throwers, and they don't do well. Even as a sidearm, it's not really very good, using the smaller throwing weapons. For instance, having power throw 2 and using snowflakes or war darts, the accuracy is still utter crap with 130 wpf in throwing, and when you DO hit, it doesn't really hurt much. There is absolutely no reason outside of style, at this point, to take any ranged weapon other than archery, which is currently in a good place, I think.

Most crossbows are actually in a fairly good place damage-wise, but I don't think the heavy xbow should take 2 slots. I'm on the fence as far as the arbalest goes. Having had a masterwork arbalest and 2x heirloomed bolts prior to the heirloom reset, I can comfortably say that the arbalest doesn't one-shot people with any regularity at the moment. It is also painfully slow to reload even with 155 wpf in xbows. Since that is the case, and you will likely have to shoot someone twice, or finish them off in melee, it makes little sense to use an arbalest or heavy xbow currently. You will get the same 2-shot result with a normal or light xbow most of the time, and be able to carry a 1h+shield, or a 2 slot weapon for melee. My suggested changes would be to make the heavy xbow take up 1 slot, keeping it's damage as it is now, and buff the damage of the sniper xbow to make it more likely to one-shot if you are going to keep the 10 second reload and 2 slot(3 with ammo) requirement. This solution makes heavy xbow useful still as a sidearm, and allows the "arbalest" to be a valid option for dedicated xbowmen.

Shields were recently nerfed to get less HP from heirlooms. Personally, I think this nerf was unnecessary and only caused by the overnerfing of the 2 handers anti-shield toolbox. If 2 handers are fixed, and damage of 2 handers balanced against 1 handers(of which 2 handers should have higher damage across the board than 1h) I believe this nerf could be reverted without shields being "OP".  A shield is supposed to be the primary advantage of being a 1h user. As long as there are a good number of anti-shield options available, and 1 handers do notably less damage than 2h or polearms(no shield), then it is not a problem to allow some shields to be fairly resiliant, and resistant to breakage.

So anyhow, thats my 45 cents. If you managed to read my opinion on all of it, I thank you. I know I am a bit long-winded.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 09:42:33 pm by Heroin »
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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2011, 10:26:57 pm »
0
As for throwing, I dont mind what you do these days, just leave stones alone  :mrgreen:.

+1 - dem rocks need some luv.
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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #123 on: May 15, 2011, 12:03:18 am »
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i was just about to choose 'buff polearms' after the polearm and lance nerf... but then i realized that everything is actually balanced atm... couldnt find a single item that was eitehr OP or sucked... the only thing i would like to buff, is heirlooms

Offline Corrado_Decimo

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #124 on: May 15, 2011, 12:16:07 am »
0
I didn't do this. I didn't vote to nerf anything at all, actually. I voted to buff the following, which I feel were overnerfed in various ways: Two Handers, Throwing, Crossbows, and Shields.

Extended explanations of each to follow:

Two Handers - Essentially, the role they are meant to fill is that of shock troops, meant to do great damage at long melee range. With the recent nerf to 2h swords thrust damage, I don't think they fill that role well. I did some quick comparing of stats between 1h and 2h, and currently 1h sword thrusts do more damage than a larger, 2 handed weapons thrust. The BEST thrusting weapons from both the 1h and 2h categories are, respectively, the Espada Eslavona, and the German greatsword. If each are heirloomed 3x, the espada does 32 pierce, while the german greatsword does only 27. This is a fairly significant difference in thrust damage, considering that the role of the two hander is to do more damage with longer reach than 1 handers, giving up the defensive benefit of a shield. Additionally, many of the specialty weapons that two-handers had have been nerfed and/or reclassed into something different. Pretty much all of the crush-through weapons have lost crush-through, with the exception of the very slow hammers, which have also been nerfed in weight. The only crush-through weapons left don't crush through often, and are not really good weapon options at the moment due to slow speeds, 2 slots, high weight(slows you down), unbalanced, and unreliable crushthrough. Some weapons, such as the bar mace, long iron mace, etc, have completely lost crushthrough, when a better option, in my opinion, would have been to simply lower their weight. Additionally, many of these weapons base damage has been nerfed on top of their losing a core component of their utility. All of this while maintaining the "unbalanced" flag makes these weapons a sucker's choice, imo.

Throwing was nerfed into uselessness. None of the throwing weapons that do decent damage are feasible to use without being a dedicated thrower. Even the ones that DO have "decent damage" don't kill people who aren't already hurt. A dedicated thrower doesn't get enough ammo to make any significant impact on a battle. Since this last patch, on a server with 100 people, I might see 2 throwers, and they don't do well. Even as a sidearm, it's not really very good, using the smaller throwing weapons. For instance, having power throw 2 and using snowflakes or war darts, the accuracy is still utter crap with 130 wpf in throwing, and when you DO hit, it doesn't really hurt much. There is absolutely no reason outside of style, at this point, to take any ranged weapon other than archery, which is currently in a good place, I think.

Most crossbows are actually in a fairly good place damage-wise, but I don't think the heavy xbow should take 2 slots. I'm on the fence as far as the arbalest goes. Having had a masterwork arbalest and 2x heirloomed bolts prior to the heirloom reset, I can comfortably say that the arbalest doesn't one-shot people with any regularity at the moment. It is also painfully slow to reload even with 155 wpf in xbows. Since that is the case, and you will likely have to shoot someone twice, or finish them off in melee, it makes little sense to use an arbalest or heavy xbow currently. You will get the same 2-shot result with a normal or light xbow most of the time, and be able to carry a 1h+shield, or a 2 slot weapon for melee. My suggested changes would be to make the heavy xbow take up 1 slot, keeping it's damage as it is now, and buff the damage of the sniper xbow to make it more likely to one-shot if you are going to keep the 10 second reload and 2 slot(3 with ammo) requirement. This solution makes heavy xbow useful still as a sidearm, and allows the "arbalest" to be a valid option for dedicated xbowmen.

Shields were recently nerfed to get less HP from heirlooms. Personally, I think this nerf was unnecessary and only caused by the overnerfing of the 2 handers anti-shield toolbox. If 2 handers are fixed, and damage of 2 handers balanced against 1 handers(of which 2 handers should have higher damage across the board than 1h) I believe this nerf could be reverted without shields being "OP".  A shield is supposed to be the primary advantage of being a 1h user. As long as there are a good number of anti-shield options available, and 1 handers do notably less damage than 2h or polearms(no shield), then it is not a problem to allow some shields to be fairly resiliant, and resistant to breakage.

So anyhow, thats my 45 cents. If you managed to read my opinion on all of it, I thank you. I know I am a bit long-winded.

those are very good points. as a 2handerm to use thrust effectively  doing some damage (only 24 pierce on my claymore), i need to use it when running against an opponent that runs toward me, achieving a good speed bonus.

poleaxes thrust damage, is what two handed pierce swords should do. greatsword and german greatsword should match the elegant and german poleaxes in terms of thrust in my opinion.

with all these damage nerfs, we need to aim for the head. and is easier for a 1handed to aim for the head with a left swing while a twohander need to raise the camera in the correct place to strike the head.

Offline Rhaelys

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #125 on: May 15, 2011, 12:41:00 am »
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those are very good points. as a 2handerm to use thrust effectively  doing some damage (only 24 pierce on my claymore), i need to use it when running against an opponent that runs toward me, achieving a good speed bonus.

poleaxes thrust damage, is what two handed pierce swords should do. greatsword and german greatsword should match the elegant and german poleaxes in terms of thrust in my opinion.

with all these damage nerfs, we need to aim for the head. and is easier for a 1handed to aim for the head with a left swing while a twohander need to raise the camera in the correct place to strike the head.

...So you want matching thrust damage on top of a superior animation (speed and reach)?
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Offline _GTX_

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #126 on: May 15, 2011, 02:40:12 am »
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...So you want matching thrust damage on top of a superior animation (speed and reach)?

Superior speed and reach? not rly, seen polearms speed and lenght? Tested against a polearm btw, with my danish greatsword. It had more range with swings, even when i did stab.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 02:41:53 am by _GTX_ »
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Offline Seawied

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #127 on: May 15, 2011, 05:58:30 am »
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...So you want matching thrust damage on top of a superior animation (speed and reach)?
on an item that requires 2 slots, and 2 hands, ergo no shield? Sounds fair to me.

I don't use two handers btw. I wasn't aware of the 2h thrust nerf, otherwise I would have voted for it to be buffed as well.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #128 on: May 15, 2011, 06:38:33 am »
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Like said by others, horses stats are cool right now but the price for upkeep is just too much, that's the only thing that should be changed about horses IMO.

Buff 1-handers speed a bit when using shield, right now 2-handers and polarmers can spam ur ass but you can't do anything beside hide behind ur shield until it breaks and then you die. And it's true about the shield weight, seems kinda high for a piece of wood to be heavier then some huge 2-handers or poleaxes and such...

Offline Shablagoo

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #129 on: May 15, 2011, 06:56:17 am »
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Fixing throwing might be all that's really needed since that's already an indirect nerf to cav and 2h/polearm spammers.    I wouldn't mind something that made plate wearers slightly less than godlike but I'd settle for just throwing. 

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #130 on: May 15, 2011, 07:51:10 am »
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Buff Athletics!

believe it or not I did not vote to buff shields :O I think they are good where they are :D I just found out that they made shield heirlooming gimp in the last lil patch. why would you gimp my shield? it was fine the way it was! gimme back my shield! it keeps breaking now!

Edit:
I support increased XP rate for all. It gets painful slow with the current grind. Why not up the base from 1k to like 1500 or even 1250... then you can keep the current gen bonus where it is... makes things a bit more forgiving on low gens, and helps the higher gens a bit too. Maxing out at 2-3k at x1 isnt bad either.

and an observation... 90% of experienced players are strength builds these days. and like 50% are 30 str. athletics needs to mean more. I play with 8 athletics and i have trouble out manuevring all the str builds sometimes. I would like to say buffing agis effect on swing speed would be good... but it might also obsolete str builds in 1v1 situations if it breaks the swing block swing block tempo... if you can just swing non stop and the other player cant interupt then it would be quite broken indeed... the damage reduction on weps really hurt 1H agi builds as well. I run around in gambeson with a masterwork grosser messer, I do alright against medium armours... but it takes me 3-6 hits to kill people, meanwhile most players kill me in 1-2 hits. I have all of 12 str and 1 if, 44hp. all these 30str 10if guys are sitting on 80hp and get to run around in plate mail. they dont give a shit if you hit em a few times. i dont mind if str builds take a bit more effort to bring down, but it sucks with the glancing since you can easily get killed by a tin can who spams mindlessly without even trying to block, cause if you glance even once, his swing keeps coming and you die. oh and i think 1h need some love in the damage department (at least the cut weapons... pierce and blunt are ok) but maybe some of them have too much reach. The disadvantage of 1H is supposed to be shorter reach, but some of these swords seem to out range poles and 2hs because of the animations. much as I hate when people just backpedal and swing from out of my reach (my wep only has 85 range), its kind of the way it should be...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 10:24:48 pm by Matey »

Offline Niemand

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #131 on: May 15, 2011, 09:28:33 am »
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1 choice for me: buff speed of 1hers. ^^


ART YOU INSANE!? go to the duelserver and fight wolves kinngrimm... buff 1h-speed? you sick asshole. He is already too fast to be blocked by an average blocker. leave 1h as it is.
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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #132 on: May 15, 2011, 11:45:23 am »
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1h should not get more speed, they are freaking fast, even with 1 wpf. How can you seorusly say they need a buff?

And for god sake, stop putting 2h and polearm in the same group. They arent the same, at all!. Polearms is kinda op atm. But 2h swords suffered alot because of recent patch nerfs, polearm didnt.
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Offline Segd

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #133 on: May 15, 2011, 12:17:57 pm »
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Buff thrown - too low number of them
Buff crossbow - need to buff effect from wpf
Nerf two handed weapons - too many of them
Nerf polearms - too many of them

P.S. My chars: 1h, archer, 2h & pole.

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Re: Official Survey about item power
« Reply #134 on: May 15, 2011, 12:19:07 pm »
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The difference(currently and in general) between two-handed and polearms are as following...

Two-Handed
- ...?

Polearm
- More damage.
- Better thrust.
- First strike with longer reach.
- Bonus against shields.
- Hit stun. Stagger effect when hit.
- Weapon stun, polearms are generally heavier.
- Horse stopping thrust.
- Cavalry equipment - lances.
- Anti-cav and support - pikes. Oh and lets not forget that you can thrust-curve around teammates and overhead through teammates on enemies.

I doubt two-handed has any edge at all, no reason to go two-handed, polearms is vastly superior in every way possible.
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