Yes, indeed.It might actually be so that if the ladders get removed, the ranged would become more vulnerable and therefore some of them will respec to melee. So far i like all the suggestions you've posted, can't really say if it can be done in terms of coding though.
Following should be done:
-Revamping map rotation, taking out maps that get a lot of downvotes, OR have unbalanced easy access roofs like that village you show us, they even combined it with ladders there. My god.
-Ladders need to be disabled in battle mode.
Speaks for itself.
-Balancer needs to equal horses and ranged somehow, getting too much on one team is a terrible experience, if you are on the other side.
I don't know if this is possible, probably by equipment or something, but it would be great.
The main problem, as you descibe it, is their numbers. Do anyone have an idea that's not despotic to solve this? Seriously, I'm all out of ideas on this one. Making it more unattractive somehow.. but that would get a lot of flame, ranged players tend to switch to other ranged classes, if one gets hit by the nerfbat.
Anyone remember the funny Archer-Thrower-Archer migration?
It might actually be so that if the ladders get removed, the ranged would become more vulnerable and therefore some of them will respec to melee. So far i like all the suggestions you've posted, can't really say if it can be done in terms of coding though.
Problem is I read somewhere that chadz doesn't want to remove ladders from battle. He really wants to have them in. But it's hearsay, of course, never read it personally from him.Well, all we can do is try over and over and over again till the point where he gets the message the community is trying to bring to him. I'm sure we wouldn't mind seeing another workaround for the problems mentioned above, but so far we can't come up with any other alternatives.
I heard that rumor too.Who knows ? We should hire a private detective (or a whole squad of them) to find out.
But what is the reason?
I never hear about that.
@Ujin:
How old are those pictures?
(Second part)
And those pictures are pretty damn old. Kinda sad , isn't it ?
It would be interesting if the devs could post stats as to how many people play what class like in that big survey we did not long ago although data will have changed since recent patches. We may think that there are millions of archers and xbowmen compared to other classes but maybe we just have rage induced paranoia.I don't really care about those stats to be honest . I have my own eyes and they definetly don't like what they see lately. And apparently i'm not the only one.
Well, all we can do is try over and over and over again till the point where he gets the message the community is trying to bring to him. I'm sure we wouldn't mind seeing another workaround for the problems mentioned above, but so far we can't come up with any other alternatives.
map makers must stop making village maps and try to be creative with terrain rather than playing with placement of the buildings...
than jacko need to put them in rotation, i think it would help
If something must be done against roofcamping without altering the gameplay, we need to REMOVE the placeable ladders and EDIT the already placed map ladders to have BALANCED and REACHABLE ranged positions.
The problem is to lower their attractivity without changing their effectivity. And to be honest, I don't have a clue how to achieve this. :?
Pretty much sums it up.Let's all take flu medicine and have a brainstorm about it ?
@ Gisbert, i wanted to respond to your post today, but then i took an arrow to the roof.
@Gisbert.
You've got to be kidding me.
You say that plains are camp festivals with a final charge.
Tell me, what are village fights? Better?
"Adding a lot of depth.."
That part made me lol.
Well in a village people at least try to do some stuff (if there are smart people online to initiate it) instead of waiting on a hill behind a "shieldwall" (oh great, the only tactic we know is take the hill) until timer says 2 minutes and then stupidly charging forward
You can laugh about it as much as you want Christo. It is my opinion and this game is not a melee game. That is something most of you guys seem to forget every second minute...
Just because you don't like roofs doesn't mean you are allowed to shoot them :OWhat does this have to do with the topic ? I stated already that i'm not calling for a direct nerf to any class and i sincerely doubt the developers will take any of the ranged haters posts into consideration anyway. And i don't care about people crying in other topic neither.
I know what you meant with this thread Ujin, but as you might see, people immediately start suggesting ranged damage and accuracy nerfs etc etc etc.
But when something like rightswing loses a bit of its speed, which is hardly recognisable (I really think that only a handful of players in this game really felt it and that the rest just started to whine because they heard from others it is slower now), people will immediately start crying and saying how unfair any nerf to their class is :rolleyes:
anybody requesting accuracy nerf is dumb imo
i mean seriously, why cant they get native like accuracy but way lower damage? atleast like this it could actually take some kind of skill and not herp derp i hope i hs him jajajajajajaj
native like accuracy takes some kind of skill ? i thought it was just point and click
dont make the other classes less attractive, make inf more attractive.
Adapt or die. Sometimes adapt and die. Seriously though, is it really a huge problem? The issue seems to be team work and battle field awareness of the average player.
my idea, make map where roof are, you now what, accessible WITHOUT a ladder.
inb4 whine
yeah it's like the golden path of roofcamping, BUT no more ''uh i'll destroy dah ladder uh so noone in uh'' so at least you could get to those roofy pick-nick
in addition to that, make some village map with invisible wall on roof.
i like tydeus idea, BUT it's a bit too OP for infantry so let's say only 1/4 xp lost?
for the record I got alt archer, crossbow, thrower, cav, ninja shielder and one staffmaster and my main is 2h.
good roofcamping is a pain in the ass I admit.
I got a strange idea: why not putting smoke bomb into firebomb? make it 3 slot, ultra heavy, with llike 30b radius damage. high cost and maybe relied with a skill like PT. this way dedicated bomberman with 1h could fire in the hole of those roofcamper.
basically we will got a special unit anti-roof camp.
edit: i also love frank idea, even if it's more adapt and live thing with no real solution so maybe just reduce a bit weigh on low-tier throwing wep so carrying as side-wep is more effective?
imo archery, crossbow, and throwing should be made so expensive that using it is non-viable for all but the most dedicated or veteran players. the problem now is that your average scrub starts playing his first gen, gets shot to pieces (or lanced, but i think cav is less of a problem) and says "well, fuck it i'll just roll archer" and the problem snowballs to what we have now. i don't see how you could nerf archery enough to significantly reduce their numbers without making it completely worthless, so making it prohibitively expensive is the solution.
also heavy cav needs a nerf, the toughness of the 5 riding horses (warhorse/cata/etc) has been out of control for a while now
archery is already plenty expensive if you use bodkins. no other gen do I lose money - granted I don't play cav.
arrows have a higher break chance rate and you usually have at least 2 stacks. Sure using a good 2H you may have to repair a large amount from time to time, but it's a very rare round when neither stack of bodkins break. Taking whatever gold you might gain a round and subracting 350 - 700 gold from it is basically a given.
being an archer is fine, it's when people move in straight lines or aren't aware of their surroundings/archer lanes that they take ranged punishment - as they should. I do agree roof camping is pretty lame, especially when people destroy ladders right away as opposed to just leaving them up. Still, as long as you avoid archer hot beds and let other ranged/cav/shielders do their job in picking em off it isn't too bad.
Issue is cav as well. Honestly whoever wins on server 1 is the one with the best cav.If we nerf archery, cav and pikeman (is it even possible to do so? :D) all we are going to see is melee. Boring.
Roof hugging archers is annoying, but cav would own every server if it wasn't so.
If we nerf archery, all we are going to see is pikemen and cav. Bwooooring!
This is exactly the problem. In order to play cav, the player needs a good buildup of money, and/or enough skill to keep a good multi. In order to play infantry, the player needs to practice a LOT to get the the point that it's actually fun. In order to play archer you need to be able to point and click.
Now that's not to say being a GOOD archer is easy, because it does take some skill (not as much as melee imo, but it's not "easy"), however even some scrub picking up an xbow or bow for the first time can get some kills and live through the round. Therefore, a lot of newbs get sick of dying constantly w/o doing anything in melee, and can't afford cav, so they run with a bow.
Removing ladders from battle is a no go or what?no
I think he means he wants to remove ladders
(click to show/hide)
Hey Gnjus, get back to the cave...
What about adding some glide to roofs? On some maps you have roofs that are so steep, that you constantly glide down a bit when you don't move. Would it be possible to do such a thing to all roofs? Not changing their look, just make them slippy^^
That way it would be much harder to shoot from roofs due to the constant movement and danger to fall down
Tenne said it should be possible to code that^^
I say let him do it :P
Hhmm...just recognised, that this will hardly work for the flag desert village houses^^
Come to think of it, there's quite some flat roof houses :(
Come to think of it, there's quite some flat roof houses :(
Nerf Archers. They became very viable again after the recent armor nerf.
They are even allowed to top the charts on full EU1! This is a disgrace and cannot be tolerated. Imagine what kind of inspiration they are to newbies! But seriously, they do more damage with their arrows than I do with a melee swing.
But still, the "dmg buff" comes from so many people using pd 8-9 these days with hornbow or rusbow. Shouldn't be possible...
The amount of ranged currently even with a shield is starting to get rather unbearable. My enjoyment in playing this mod is decreasing every time I join eu1 these days.
you forget what gives rise to the hundreds of archers :D STRAT! people turned their mains into archers for strat as they could no longer use their alts for strat battles. Before there were a crap load of archer alts but they didnt always play them. now if you want to craft arrows or bows or use an archer in strat it has to be your main thus more archers :P
He means that the body shots would take a lot less damage so people would have to do headshots to take significant damage.
Removing ladders from battle is a no go or what?
noWhen? The time has been ripe for over half a year now.
Stupid idea. That way you punish players for playing their most favourite class.
Btw, 2h, polearm and maybe 1h/shield are still the most used classes on servers. I doubt they will be happy to receive an xp "nerf" ^^
Nice pic, i still dont get it tho :shock:
interesting.
very interesting.
0000072: increase ranged damage on headshots, decrease it on all other body parts. Status: resolvedArchers and Xbowmen are nerfed enough as it is. Further nerfing and nerfing seems silly, and you can't keep doing it.
I think the main thing we need is to motivate organized infantry play. If we can get bonuses for fighting in groups, for making shieldwalls, for charging together, we can make cRPG more what it is like in the pics Ujin posted.
Stop nerfing ranged, start buffing infantry.
And this is what i remember cRPG for, as well as what i like(d) about it and what i'd like to see more in cRPG.(click to show/hide)
I noticed that on last picture u added there are more kills from range weapon than from melee :) .
Roofcamping is only using a terrain to make an advance almost like standing on hills. And there is also one more thing: camping unreachable places is banable so if u can see roofcampers on unreachable places write to admin to take them down :)
(click to show/hide)
I noticed that on last picture u added there are more kills from range weapon than from melee :) .
Roofcamping is only using a terrain to make an advance almost like standing on hills. And there is also one more thing: camping unreachable places is banable so if u can see roofcampers on unreachable places write to admin to take them down :)
Code: [Select]0000072: increase ranged damage on headshots, decrease it on all other body parts. Status: resolved
Oh noes poor xbowers... They was innocent. And archers almost dont give a shit about this nerf actually.
Sorry, this rule only applies at the end of the round. If there are no other feet on the ground of that team, they have to go down. Any suggestions to remove this partial invincibility were ignored.
And in difference to roofs, even with a narrow ladder that's part of the map, the position is more than unfair.
I remember there used to be that siege scene in battle mode (!!!) with this desert castle at the foot of a mountain (Helm's Deep -like), the gate and everything was open, so basically everyone could go everywhere. But guess who won most rounds on this map, those spawning inside or in front of the castle?
Elevated positions with only one, narrow access should be treated as fortifications, and thus only belong into siege mode.
Yay, 1257ad :D
make ladders harder to destroy, standingon roof without ladder kickable ALLWAYS, destroying ladder on purpose banableAnd then what? Having to move up a steep ladder with a hungry horde of archers waiting for you with no room to dodge?
It is my opinion and this game is not a melee game. That is something most of you guys seem to forget every second minute...
I'm interested, something prevent YOUR team to capture this roofs first? Or something prevent you to take ladder and make a way for your teammates there? This called «Key points» IRL. If you want control battlefield - you need to control key points, if you cant control key point, you need more FIREPOWER to supress enemy key points, and make this key points useless. If you can't do this - your TEAM loose.
It is my opinion and this game is not a melee game. That is something most of you guys seem to forget every second minute...
This would be a great change. Would be cool to see ranged encouraged to aim for headshots rather than spam in the general area and do half or more of someones HP.
Code: [Select]0000072: increase ranged damage on headshots, decrease it on all other body parts. Status: resolved
Oh noes poor xbowers... They was innocent. And archers almost dont give a shit about this nerf actually.
I'm interested, something prevent YOUR team to capture this roofs first? Or something prevent you to take ladder and make a way for your teammates there? This called «Key points» IRL. If you want control battlefield - you need to control key points, if you cant control key point, you need more FIREPOWER to supress enemy key points, and make this key points useless. If you can't do this - your TEAM loose.
Just add vertigo to anyone with 100 wpf+ in ranged weapons.
They stand on roofs too long they feel sick and fall over.
Best suggestion EVAR!
In poland counting skills aren't the best are they
6 Melee, 5 ranged (1 is TK so doesn't really count tbh)
In poland counting skills aren't the best are they
It is my opinion and this game is not a melee game.
Code: [Select]0000072: increase ranged damage on headshots, decrease it on all other body parts. Status: resolved
Oh noes poor xbowers... They was innocent. And archers almost dont give a shit about this nerf actually.
how about removing the reticle?that would just be bullying the archers/xbows that can't aim for shit
Firepower? Supression? What the fuck are we playing, WW2 and Blade? Counter Strike? Get the fuck out of here.
Arbalests kills enemy by one headshot with almost 100% guarantee before that nerf. And bows didn't kill by one shot in head before. Now they got buffed head damage, so they can do oneshot kills more often. Unlike xbows.
So that is only xbow nerf. Totally unmerited nerf for xbows.
I'm interested, something prevent YOUR team to capture this roofs first?
how about removing the reticle?
How about no....
This shouldnt be about killing the ranged class, should be about removing ladders
Shitty map design?
Nah, we playing TEAM based tactical game. And you trying to play Rambo on Jet Horse, but do not want to be a part of a team.
And do not be rude dude. Your behaviour doesnt make your arguments smarter.
Yes, I can imagine those medieval soldiers that talking to their General - Fuck out, we do not like this terrain, go and fight alone. And enemy team have one more archer, nah, we prefer desert.
On the other hand, I think that not only «Shitty map design» is a problem, but wrong (unequal) start points. High grounds must be equally reachable by both sides.
chadz made great deal with ladders. This game receive third dimension.
Just the fact you're using modern warfare terminology for a medieval based game shows what's wrong with the system. Your crappy little wooden huts are only key points because of the mechanics, if it was RL they would be torched to the ground and all the "tactically" (lolol) minded friendly archers camping on it would die a crispy death or be forced to jump down on the ground and fight with the rest of the mortals.
Fuck let's make it REALLY realistic, and allow all those crappy huts to have entrances, interiors and doors. Then all inf can camp inside protected from friendly archers. It's a key point, you know? And then we're more than halfway to turning battle servers into siege with 1 life.
no
how about removing the reticle?
1. This huts are as mine as yours, but if ONE of teams use this hats\terrain to gain tactical advantage - what is wrong with it?
2. Archer usually cant take a ladder, because you are limited by slot system. Peasants, 2Handers, polearmers can take ladder and help your team. Do not blame archers, blame ALL ENEMY TEAM for tactical decisions and teamplay.
3. I have nothing against «firebombs» it was fun enough thingy. Just make requirements for firebombs. I think 2-3 PT is good enough.
And I change my banner to the one of the currently dominating clan. I hate it to do so, but I want to have fun in this game
The only thing that's worse than a bunch of archers on a roof with no ladder are a bunch of archers on a roof with ladder. This way you don't have an excuse to not go up there, and once you try and there are more than one single archer on that roof, you are dead, never mind how big your shield is, because it can't protect you from both sides (yes, even with those big hitboxes).
What is «FUN» for you Joker? Constant x5?
But you can destroy this ladder dude. Did you really suggest that 25 infantryman CANT destroy ONE ladder?
The only thing that's worse than a bunch of archers on a roof with no ladder are a bunch of archers on a roof with ladder. This way you don't have an excuse to not go up there, and once you try and there are more than one single archer on that roof, you are dead, never mind how big your shield is, because it can't protect you from both sides (yes, even with those big hitboxes).
Making undestructible ladders (never mind if deployable or part of the map) means only to give archers a justification to keep on shooting infantry from a roof, with the small, funny difference that in this case the infantry can't even take cover or try to dodge any more. And god help the team that has 25 shieldless infantrymen left against two archers on a roof with a single ladder.
Problem is I read somewhere that chadz doesn't want to remove ladders from battle. He really wants to have them in. But it's hearsay, of course, never read it myself from him personally.
Umm...would it be an extremely rediculous idea to actually buff melee? I mean, ranged has already been nerfed a lot.
Its just the roofcamping, it ruins almost every map.It's over man, it's over. The dawn of a new age.
I don't think either class is overly common, they are just more apparent than infantry when there is anomalous amounts of them.
It's over man, it's over. The dawn of a new age.
I just don't understand all the calls for nerfing things that are a "strength" for a certain class or equipment. It's lazy, and tactically every class or equipment can be countered.
So there can never be OP things, just some strengthes, and you shouldn't take away strengthes?How about a simple xp/gold bonus for anyone spawning with a support polearm? Seems like a rather simple solution that doesn't change mechanics or revert the 3s change.
Sorry but it doesn't work this way. You have to CHECK if this strength is BALANCED. If it is not, either nerf this thing or buff the rest.
I do agree with you that pikes need a buff instead of cavalry needing a nerf, but unless you find a way to make infantry and cavalry being completely immune to ranged attacks while still being able to attack, only by using the advantage a map provides (which would be the equal buff for the others to bring them in line with roofcampers) the only possible solution was a nerf.
And those pictures are pretty damn old. Kinda sad , isn't it ?
nerf cav and the ranged wont need to get a roof to avoid being killed in 3 horsebumps by the 25 heavy cav on other team with 9 bodkins stickin out of each. problem solved.
or make it where players can't destroy ladders placed by their own team.
I would love to see an overhead stab for spear like weapons in general.
In reality there is no chance to approach a wall of spears and pikes without a shield and to survive. You get stabbed everywhere.
But in Warband you just need to downblock, and you are immune to an infinite amount of pikemen in front of you, as long as you want. :?
Maybe the answer to balance isn't always to nerf a class, maybe it's up to the players to find the weakness of a class and exploit it.
This is exactly the mentality people need to get.
I have been playing a hoplite class with huscarl shield and ash pike for 2 months now and guess what? I am useful in support, useful as a shield against archers and can stop cav in their tracks. I dont get high kd's but I do help the team, but I think an issue is people want kd's regardless of whats best for the team. Hence we have a lot of rambo 2h's and 2h's arnt capable of covering each other, they cant shield each other from missiles and they cant stop cav hitting their teammates. If more people stopped whining and respecced their 2h to a more teamwork friendly role then maybe a lot of the whine would die down :P
This.
Hoplite is fun just because it's so satisfying getting a hit on an annoying 2h and seeing them get hacked down by your own. Or walking up a ladder straight towards a bunch of archers and they can do fuck all except jump. Or stabbing a rampaging cav and watching them get ganked by your team.
It may not get high kills all the time, but it sure as hell makes it a lot easier for others in your team to get those kills and for your team to win.
and crossbows.Why? Xbows are fine.
We (almost) all here in this topic agree that there needs to be done something about the amount of ranged. Which means you have to demotivate people to choose a ranged class. Which can always be called as "punishment". If archer is really your favourite class, you will still stick to it. But if you are just an "OP whore", looking for the currently strongest/most "efficient" (effort/result) class, this could change your mind.
Yeah. Fuck archers.but then also add that those horses are like twice as fast and like 3x more maneurable even at level 0 Riding....indeed a plate charger turns kinda like a arabian horse in that mod :).(click to show/hide)
Also, fuck horses.(click to show/hide)
I've always been archer on my main cause I liked it most.The problem is too much people think the same. Devs and everyone would like to prevent this becoming an archer only game. Too not kill all the other classes, archers must not be a too large percentage of the players. As archery is very popular, it should be made less attractive to prevent overarchery. Thats why its an individually pretty weak class.
And reducing the xp a certain class gains will more or less just kill the fun even for those who play archery cause they like it. Why shall I wait twice as long than other players till I reach lvl 34?
And I still don't get why every retard in this forums seems to think, that people play archer because it shall be the easiest of strongest class or whatever.
Does it over come to your mind, that people play archer cause being an archer is fun?
It looks wonderful to see a person falling to the ground, an arrow sticking out of his back....has nothing to do with overpowered whatever shit.
M&B, especially crpg is the best game I know concerning archery
The problem is too much people think the same. Devs and everyone would like to prevent this becoming an archer only game. Too not kill all the other classes, archers must not be a too large percentage of the players. As archery is very popular, it should be made less attractive to prevent overarchery. Thats why its an individually pretty weak class.Oh come on, do you guys really think, that it will ever happen, that people stop playing melee classes?
It's still a melee game.
Your opinion, not mine ;)
Many people say it's a pure melee game, many say it's not. Do you know who is right?
Best your foes with realistic physics based combat, that takes into account momentum, attack timing, and position.
... INTRODUCE AUTOBLOCKING ON THE SERVERS
@ Thovex:
Why so serious?
Notice the 2 smileys after that.
It's not serious.
He's the JOKER, damnit. :mrgreen:
I think that actually that would make infantry even weaker than it is now, and archery even more attractive. You can't block projectiles.
Don't want to read the whole thread now.
Funny to see how many people here blame archers for placing ladders (ever seen an archer placing a ladder? I doubt it due to slot system) or for shitty autobalance like all cav and archers being on one team (I still don't know how to manipulate autobalance, maybe all the pros here can tell me :rolleyes: )
Info for all the melee guys out there: It is you who bring ladders for archers. Don't bring ladders = noone on roof *shock*
Btw, so many people here have a problem when I say this is not a melee game. By that I mean it is not a pure melee game. Maybe you want to argue on that, but why did developers of this game implement ranged weapons and horses? Hhhmm....weird.....and why did our crpg devs keep these weapons? Hhmm....even more weird. Oh hey, probably because it is not a pure melee game *slap on my forehead*
:rolleyes:
Oh come on, do you guys really think, that it will ever happen, that people stop playing melee classes?
Rubbish.
And why do you think it's only you having probs with other classes?
I also have to live with all the cav and ranged. Might happen, that I sometimes GTX a server due to massive cav on the server. Well, join another one.
Why do some people have such bigs problems, whereas others can easily adapt?
Well, I guess the only other solution to again buff the popularity of infantry that much to exceed this of archery would be something, that would shock and enrage most of infantry players, and kill a good part of the game. But it would be the only "alternative" I could think of, so there is little else to do than to nerf the other classes down so that they have the same "crappy" gameplay like infantry.
One way to make infantry more popular than archery for a lot of people who choose to become archer, would be...... INTRODUCE AUTOBLOCKING ON THE SERVERS
:mrgreen: :P
I guess a big part of the motivation (= for many people) of being an archer is not having to learn to block manually.
Well, you can't block projectiles manually, either. So no change there.
Im not convinced that plenty of guys just switched to ranged when they are owned in melee.
one should play what one finds fun.
I honestly believe that a lot of the QQ comes from unaware 2h.
I honestly believe that a lot of the QQ comes from unaware 2h.
only 1 person disagreed with this but devs dont listen. and thats why I still don't play anymore.
Archers in reality was poor peasants and bandits who couldnt buy good weapons and gear
And that's why I cry myself to sleep every night.
ChoclatePudding with cream topping is THE symbol for white ppl. supressing majorities of other colored ppl. -.......-
I stopped eating chocolate pudding after i realized that....
(click to show/hide)
First of is statistics. These can't stand alone, but they do hint at some interestesting facts, Fasader cared to share them earlier on
Yes, Bjord, unfortunately I must say you are correct.
So I'll try and argue a bit better for my case...(click to show/hide)
"because it is easy to play, you should of no use".
Manipulated stats, obviously.
For once in a lifetime i agree with this thing called Xant. Fasader's "stats" are only good for teaching kindergarten kids some basics of math (if you want those kids to grow up into thieves/politicians).
That's Fasaderp, you can't honestly expect otherwise (HE USES A CROSSBOW!)
. Too bad crossbows still have insane accuracy and no flaws: Dont tell me "oh you must upkeep them they so expensive" Upkeep is a joke, I wear whatever I want all the time and so does everyone I know.
a) Less than 30% of the kills of EU1 is made from ranged.
Warband is a medieval combat simulator or as close can be while still having fun. This include friendly archers and pesky cav.
Where is the rage at 10 plated horsemen owning a server for 10 rounds?
Can you backup that claim other than a claim?
First of is statistics. These can't stand alone, but they do hint at some interestesting facts, Fasader cared to share them earlier on:
a) Less than 30% of the kills of EU1 is made from ranged.
b) This means either that it is a support class or that it is underpowered compared to 2h and polearm who has far more kills.
make it 9 out of 10 death (at least for me when I´m level 30 in my good gear and I´m not too tired for blocking).
i never saw plated horsemen owning a server, not even for a single round.
First of is statistics. These can't stand alone, but they do hint at some interestesting facts, Fasader cared to share them earlier on:That is what it means. Ranged shoots from a distance, targets come, targets go. They rarely shoot someone down from 100% hp to 0% hp. Melee on the other hand fights in close quarters, there is rarely running away. It happens quite often that melee does take the full hp in a fight.
a) Less than 30% of the kills of EU1 is made from ranged.
b) This means either that it is a support class or that it is underpowered compared to 2h and polearm who has far more kills.
Solution: Don't fight around the archer camping spot, or fight directly below it along the walls.
A rooftop camping spot is only as valuable as its proximity to the battle below.
Solution: Don't fight around the archer camping spot, or fight directly below it along the walls.
A rooftop camping spot is only as valuable as its proximity to the battle below.
Solution: Don't fight around the archer camping spot, or fight directly below it along the walls.
A rooftop camping spot is only as valuable as its proximity to the battle below.
Solution: Don't fight around the archer camping spot, or fight directly below it along the walls.
A rooftop camping spot is only as valuable as its proximity to the battle below.
Lol, so melee belong along the walls and archers can reign gay over the rest of the map? That makes perfect sense.
Also, I'm all about making people use terrain and teamwork over crutching along buildings (or on them). That's always been my attitude, and I was always personally for removing ladders, I just don't like the direction of always nerfing something when a balance issue gets brought up, but I don't feel that way about the ladder removal (that it's a nerf).
Meh I actually think the whole head/body shot nerf is going to even further imbalance internal archery weapon balance. As many others have pointed out if implemented as indicated it's going to make the top tier bows even less attractive. And since headshots almost consistantly 1 hit kill as it is, it's a big nerf to body dmg done by ranged with not much to show for it.
So archers are allowed to simply "lock down" a certain area of the battlefield while still being able to participate in the fighting, and there is nothing you can do about than walking away, and that's okay?
Lol, so melee belong along the walls and archers can reign gay over the rest of the map? That makes perfect sense.
Maybe if cRPG servers were entirely composed of clans organizing with each other, something like this might be doable. Even on random plains maps when both teams camp huge hills and the majority of each side actually sticks around, it ends in draws because there's always some guy killing or dying somewhere on the map, which means motf never does pop up. But of course it's completely disengenuous because you know very well no pug is going to be organized enough to just avoid the huge area of coverage provided by camping a rooftop like a bundle of sticks. You just want to keep playing siege archer in battle.
It isn't to hard to say "DON'T CHARGE THEIR ARCHER NEST" and have most of the team with a brain comply to some extent.
And there's the flaw in your reasoning. Tell me, have you ever even tried to command a team composed of random clanless guys, or is this some hypothetical bullshit?
It can work, but that is being discussed in another thread^^
Said thread has concluded that teamwork on public servers is currently a very rare sight and improbable until teamwork promoting changes are brought to cRPG :P
That's some people's opinion, not that of everyone ;)
Read the whole thread if you want, some people said how and that it works.
I think they are in the minority :) but yes it is contested (like every opinion)
...i never heard of archercs who are walking on a roof made of hay.. They can keep camping but in that case I want torch so I can burn them all in one move
And there's the flaw in your reasoning. Tell me, have you ever even tried to command a team composed of random clanless guys, or is this some hypothetical bullshit?I'm not talking about being a team commander (which I agree never works) but more giving a general directive (like "go left/go right/camp hill"). Sure you won't get a bunch of people to listen to you, but the idiots will find a way to kill themselves off and let's be honest rounds are usually decided by the 10 or 15 players on each team that actually get the kills.
Also, LOL at telling inf that they should heed their surroundings, and that it's their own fault for getting killed by camping archers. They only have to deal with cav, and ranged, and roof campers, and of course other inf. The lazy fuckers. I'm guessing ranged failing so badly at battlefield awareness that they have to go on a roof and be immune to everyone that isn't ranged are the fucking cream of the crop when it comes to heeding their surroundings right?
hahahaha EPIC :mrgreen:
I preferred the old system gain gold and experience.
(the system that worked by the proximity of the fighting).
it organized and promoted fights as a team!
Instead ... for months we earn our gold and our experience as the ticking of a watch
We have archers stuck on roofs and flee the fighting in any danger all around the map.
It was the old system that encouraged players to win victories.
There was no leecher, no camp without strategic value, not exploits, ...
In short, that was the most successful CRPG!
This thread is actually not about how gold and xp gain worked ages ago.
Btw, as an archer or on a horse you always got less xp/gold than people fighting in melee.
And those who died early due to a random arrow or spawnkill by cav received almost nothing....great system :rolleyes:
This is pretty simple.
This is what cRPG is now.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
And this is what i remember cRPG for, as well as what i like(d) about it and what i'd like to see more in cRPG.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
I may be bad at understanding how balance works, at coding, programming and whatsoever, but i can clearly see that something has to be done. Jokes/trolling (i know, impossible) aside, this is getting sad and boring already.
Dear cRPG developers, please try to do something about the current state of cRPG, people have posted many suggestions recently, like removing ladders, increasing prices for bows and horses and so on. I'm sure with the help of the (reasonable part of the) community we can figure something out.
It is an endless circle of cRPG where at some point the amount of ranged or cavalry (or both) classes becomes too overwhelming and i think we've reached it again .Don't get me wrong i'm not calling for a nerf per say in terms of stats or damage dealt by archers/xbowmen(debatable)/cavalry , i'm simply talking about finding a way to reduce their numbers.
So i've got a question for the cRPG community, do you think something should be done ASAP about what cRPG has become , yet again ?
p.s. i have a shield, i am a sword n board + cavalry character . this is not a rage nor a whine topic.
I preferred the old system gain gold and experience.
(the system that worked by the proximity of the fighting).
it organized and promoted fights as a team!
Instead ... for months we earn our gold and our experience as the ticking of a watch
We have archers stuck on roofs and flee the fighting in any danger all around the map.
It was the old system that encouraged players to win victories.
There was no leecher, no camp without strategic value, no exploits, no delayers, ...
In short, that was the most successful CRPG!
That was a great M&B Modification
Yeah, but a system, that makes the gold/xp gain actually worse for many classes/playstyles isn't really a solution for our problem :/
Well, the valour system is something we can deal with when the roofcampers are gone^^
I think it'd be cool if XP was lowered but you get a certain amount of XP for "x" amount of damage dealt.Yeah, Strength definetly needs to be more rewarding! :mrgreen:
Yeah, Strength definetly needs to be more rewarding! :mrgreen:
Ok...so maybe an algorithm for damage dealt divided by strength? :Pand wpf, weapon damage and power strike? :D
and wpf, weapon damage and power strike? :D
Yes we need to nerf ranged, lord knows they haven't been nerfed at least 100 times already. What's that? one nerf to 2 handers? All hell breaks loose
Yes we need to nerf ranged, lord knows they haven't been nerfed at least 100 times already. What's that? one nerf to 2 handers? All hell breaks loose
Atleast Ranged remained a viable choice..
The only problem is with team balancing...when we get too much of something on one side (specially cav) its clean who wins.
I think after certain % of class per side, balancer should outweight the class difference over banners.
Yeah 2hand is such an un-viable choice that only a third of the community plays one.the next guy crying about 2h nerf should really win some big award lol, 0.1 on ready animation and you talk about not being viable?
The only problem is with team balancing...when we get too much of something on one side (specially cav) its clean who wins.
I think after certain % of class per side, balancer should outweight the class difference over banners.
the next guy crying about 2h nerf should really win some big award lol, 0.1 on ready animation and you talk about not being viable?
a longsword with 0 wpf and 24 agi is still viable to spam ppl face :D
2. Promoting spam
Nerfing a weapon by making it slower promotes spam?
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Btw, any idea how not to be spammed by lezard's left swing ? I tried nearly everything but it's simply faster than anything I can pull off, and I don't see any reason for it.
Spam against it.
Although it's fine with 2h honestly.
Slow down the 1h leftslash and speed up the other directions, the leftslashspam is retarded. Half the shielders rarely use any of the other attacks.
Herp derp Nerf nerf derp derp
But I would fix it by generally making the block stun (that is, your stun when your swing is blocked) of any attack much longer. That would fix the spam and hiltslash problem, without fucking weapon speeds over.
Yea lets continue the cykle of nerfing everything until playing farmville takes better reaction time
Slow down the 1h leftslash and speed up the other directions, the leftslashspam is retarded. Half the shielders rarely use any of the other attacks.
Yea lets continue the cykle of nerfing everything until playing farmville takes better reaction time
Slow down the 1h leftslash (-1) and speed up the other directions (+3), the leftslashspam is retarded. Half the shielders rarely use any of the other attacks.
At least TRY to understand the upcoming change. If a left-to-right attack (yes, including the "spammable" 1h attack) is blocked, it will be a bit longer in the blocked state, thus taking more time to do another attack. It will most likely lessen the ability to spam with 1h, as well as reducing the instantness for a left/right combo with 2h/pole.Yeah, melee combat is WAY to fast and spammy right now, GREAT idea.
That's what's gonna happen in next patch, so I guess we'll see whether it works or not.
At least TRY to understand the upcoming change. If a left-to-right attack (yes, including the "spammable" 1h attack) is blocked, it will be a bit longer in the blocked state, thus taking more time to do another attack. It will most likely lessen the ability to spam with 1h, as well as reducing the instantness for a left/right combo with 2h/pole.
Yeah, melee combat is WAY to fast and spammy right now, GREAT idea.
Say it, combat is not more spammy now than it was 3 months ago. Say it.Combat is not more spammy now than it was 3 months ago.
Say it, combat is not more spammy now than it was 3 months ago. Say it.
Dude did you even play the game 3 months ago?
hiltslash is the most used melee tactic since atleast august and 1h left swing was spammable in native beta already.
But now the first guy I encounter in battle tries it, which is utter lame.Not for me
Hiltslash only became widely used "recently". My point is, when it was only done by xandhold and Tor it was okay. But now the first guy I encounter in battle tries it, which is utter lame.1. No, not really. Lots of players used it in july (including myself) already. Not sure why you didnt recognize them.
Even though I never stopped playing cRPG since september 2010, I have yet to remember a time I was successfully spammed by a 1h leftswing. It had always been fast, but never to the point you could just spam it. Anyway, what is important isn't the game engine, it is what the players are able to do with it.
If we're all about fucking with swing speeds and block times, can we then make it so having your thrust attack blocked doesn't sometimes lead to a free hit for the enemy (especially if it's chambered)?
If we're all about fucking with swing speeds and block times, can we then make it so having your thrust attack blocked doesn't sometimes lead to a free hit for the enemy (especially if it's chambered)?
Because that's annoying as hell.
This! Polearms and two-handers always gets a delay after stabbing into a block which makes the opponent get an unblockable hit on you afterwards, depending on the range between you and your enemy. 2Hs get the worst delay, while polearms have a lot shorter thrust and thus have to be closer to stab. It's ridiculous that people should be completely vulnerable just because a guy blocked one of your attacks.Not sure if this is true, never had any trouble with it as a lolstabbing GG user or now as an ashwood pike stab spammer.
This! Polearms and two-handers always gets a delay after stabbing into a block which makes the opponent get an unblockable hit on you afterwards, depending on the range between you and your enemy. 2Hs get the worst delay, while polearms have a lot shorter thrust and thus have to be closer to stab. It's ridiculous that people should be completely vulnerable just because a guy blocked one of your attacks.
This! Polearms and two-handers always gets a delay after stabbing into a block which makes the opponent get an unblockable hit on you afterwards, depending on the range between you and your enemy. 2Hs get the worst delay, while polearms have a lot shorter thrust and thus have to be closer to stab. It's ridiculous that people should be completely vulnerable just because a guy blocked one of your attacks.
If a left-to-right attack (yes, including the "spammable" 1h attack) is blocked, it will be a bit longer in the blocked state, thus taking more time to do another attack. It will most likely lessen the ability to spam with 1h, as well as reducing the instantness for a left/right combo with 2h/pole.Is the stun short enough that a 1h can still left spam a maul user who is going for an overhead? That's really important for maul balance (right swing isn't fast enough, and the overhead stands a very high chance of getting chambered).
Not sure if this is true, never had any trouble with it as a lolstabbing GG user or now as an ashwood pike stab spammer.
Go duel a shielder using a long spear. Report your findings.
Were long spears and pikes designed to be used as duelling or close combat weapons? :shock:
They should suck more than the suckiest sucky thing ever unless being used to take out cav or stop charges of inf in head on battles.
Not sure if this is true, never had any trouble with it as a lolstabbing GG user or now as an ashwood pike stab spammer.
Then who would care to play it? :?
I can manage to chamber most long polearms (now and then), but it's just not worth it against awlpikes. If you miss you're usually dead.i would say that you are talknig about ashwood pike :mrgreen: