The state of cRPG

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Yeah, but a system, that makes the gold/xp gain actually worse for many classes/playstyles isn't really a solution for our problem :/


Well, the valour system is something we can deal with when the roofcampers are gone^^

[Diablo]

This is pretty simple.


This is what cRPG is now.

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And this is what i remember cRPG for, as well as what i like(d) about it and what i'd like to see more in cRPG.

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I may be bad at understanding how balance works, at coding, programming and whatsoever, but i can clearly see that something has to be done. Jokes/trolling (i know, impossible) aside, this is getting sad and boring already.

Dear cRPG developers, please try to do something about the current state of cRPG, people have posted many suggestions recently, like removing ladders, increasing prices for bows and horses and so on. I'm sure with the help of the (reasonable part of the)  community we can figure something out.

It is an endless circle of cRPG where at some point the amount of ranged or cavalry (or both) classes becomes too overwhelming and i think we've reached it again .Don't get me wrong i'm not calling for a nerf per say in terms of stats or damage dealt by archers/xbowmen(debatable)/cavalry , i'm simply talking about finding a way to reduce their numbers.


So i've got a question for the cRPG community, do you think  something should be done ASAP about what cRPG has become , yet again ?




p.s. i have a shield, i am a sword n board + cavalry character . this is not a rage nor a whine topic.

I preferred the old system gain gold and experience.
(the system that worked by the proximity of the fighting).

it organized and promoted fights as a team!

Instead ... for months we earn our gold and our experience as the ticking of a watch
We have archers stuck on roofs and flee the fighting in any danger all around the map.

It was the old system that encouraged players to win victories.
There was no leecher, no camp without strategic value, no exploits, no delayers, ...

In short, that was the most successful CRPG!
That was a great M&B Modification

This is suggested by this post at its origin.

Please Gisbert, re-read the topic

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I know what the topic says. He wants a change regarding archers and cav, which doesn't mean we have to change back to the old system.
I know it's a suggestion, but is was made before and the old system is shit. You won't get rid of archers that way, you will just make them lvl slower ;)

[Rubicon]

The old system wasn't fair at all for cavs/archers, if i remember well, the main improvement of tickets system was a great extend of the battle area, promoting flanking squad and cavalry skirmishing.
The current system is fine IMO, it's rewarding everyone and already promote teamplay, a simple suggestion:
I don't know if it's possible, but removing the classic kill/death counting and replacing it by a damage recording system could be even more fair for cav/archers and btw it might show ppl who are actually useful for their teams, and also "punish" ppl for their TK/TH. With that kind of system, related to an XP "bonus" it could be perfect.

[CrazyCracka420]

Yeah, but a system, that makes the gold/xp gain actually worse for many classes/playstyles isn't really a solution for our problem :/


Well, the valour system is something we can deal with when the roofcampers are gone^^

I agree, and I totally can see how ranged would still get screwed on XP under the old system because they generally aren't within 15 feet of their front line infantry.  Same with cavalry, I'm usually not ever stationed indefinitely near my infantry, but I zoom in and out of all the ruckus and try to help our infantry as I'm moving into and out of the main battles.

So although I disagree that the old system would help in regards to XP for people not right up in the front where all the killing is happening, it would address the roof camping (at least somewhat).  And I still think valor needs to be addressed, you shouldn't reward people for not running around with teammates, and generally being a loner until the end of the round. I do realize that you can survive until the last of your team dies by still fighting with your main group, but usually it seems like it's the lone archer or cavalry (or the duellist) who are off doing their own thing that are the last ones alive on the losing team.

And I like the idea of removing K:D in favor of damage dealt, but that would never fly.  So I'd suggest just adding damage dealt to the score board.

[Joker86]

Wasn't there the problem that damage dealt could not really be tracked?

Although I don't know how far WSE can change this... 


P.S.: Why are ladders still there? I still have to place one myself, every round.

[Thanatos]

Raise arrow/bow upkeep. Historically using archers in battle was really expensive.

This will make archers get directly involved in combat to make sure their team is winning instead of finding a roof to camp on.

Problem solved..

[helvictus]

I haven't been playing this for very long and that seems to be the be all and end all here

After having read through this whole thread though it seems that everyone wants something different.

The only opinion i have to say about this is that when i found out that killing people and being useful gives you no short term victory at all (meaning no extra points gained immediately) the whole game took on a slightly different edge.

I still love it but rather than thinking about it so much as a game you end up thinking about it as a math formula on one hand to make sure you aren't raped by upkeep and a round based system that treats everyone on a single team the same whatever they may be doing on the other. This is all good and fair but turns things into maths on one side and a grind on the other.

perhaps that is the goal of this which is cool, its a noble intention and i do see how it fits in with the whole leveling thing being your age which makes good sense in the context but even if killing someone just gave you a little bit extra, just a little bit, like 5 extra gold or 5 extra xp or anything at all, would go a long way i think.

It seems that this point has been endlessly debated though so i don't want to start anything, merely my thoughts on the state of crpg as the title says.

[Phazey]

I like ladders.

Last night on a village map both teams kept contending one roof (even though more roofs were available) and the ladders remained in tact for some reason (on both sides!). I suspect nobody had time to destroy the ladders because both teams arrived at the building at approximately the same time.
That resulted in a fun battle where infantry was fighting all around the building and also on the roof. Great fun.

There are a few obvious flaws in this thread.

1) The problem is not ladders, it's unreachable roofs

Ladders are a good addition to cRPG and make maps more interesting and more dynamic. The problem is that ladders get destroyed (usually by the roof-campers themselves) to create an unreachable spot for archers and crossbowmen to shoot from.
The fact that that is allowed and an accepted method of securing a 'safe spot to shoot from' is the real problem here.

When the ladders do not get destroyed, it's fine. And that brings me to point two:

2) Shields. Use them.
Even my 2h alt has 1 point in shield skill and carries an old board shield when the map warrants it. Some players in this thread complain about having to walk up a ladder and getting shot... well... you also get slashed by cav if you walk out into the open unprotected. Having to run up a ladder really isn't gamebreaking, especially if you factor in shields. Heck, even with a 0 skill shield you can block a couple of arrows. I wouln't mind a small buff to the low shields btw.

Anyway, back to my main point: ladders are fun. They add to the maps and make them much more flexible.

So my vote goes to either making ladders indestructible, redeployable like the fixed ladders in some maps or making ladders immune to friendly fire. Or reverting the 'rule' that players are allowed to camp unreachable places.

Because the problem is not ladders. It's unreachable roof camping.

[Joker86]

The problem are not only unreachable, but also badly reachable (?) roofs. As soon as you have two or more archers on a roof with a ladder, and you go up there with your shield, they will both place themselves at both sides of the ladder, with the biggest distance possible to each other. If you turn your shield to one of them, the other one will shoot you. If you keep looking between them, not even the big shield bubble can save you reliably, especially if you have on 0 or 1 shield skill.

I already wrote, slowly climbing a ladder up to a roof full of (at least decent) archers is almost sure suicide. Then better break the ladder and force them to jump down, although this is considered pretty lame and somewhat weird by me. 

[Phazey]

It ain't suicide if you have a shield and a teammate or two behind you.

It's an advantage for a ranged class to perch on a roof somewhere, but not an unfair one imo. With a shield and a bit of help from your team, raiding an archer roof isn't that hard. I do it all the time. True, sometimes i fail, but hey... that is supposed to happen.

Really, the problem is the fact that it's become 'normal practice' to destroy the ladder as soon as they reach their roof. If the ladder isn't destroyed so easily, attacking roofcamping archers is perfectly viable if you have a shield.

[CrazyCracka420]

I think it'd be cool if XP was lowered but you get a certain amount of XP for "x" amount of damage dealt.

[BlackMilk]

I think it'd be cool if XP was lowered but you get a certain amount of XP for "x" amount of damage dealt.

Yeah, Strength definetly needs to be more rewarding!

[CrazyCracka420]

Yeah, Strength definetly needs to be more rewarding!

Ok...so maybe an algorithm for damage dealt divided by strength? 

[BlackMilk]

Ok...so maybe an algorithm for damage dealt divided by strength? 

and wpf, weapon damage and power strike?