The state of cRPG

[[ptx]]

Ladders - keep not remove!

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I think he means he is searching for a way to deal with roofcamping without making roofs unaccessible^^

[Gnjus]

I think he means he wants to remove ladders

I want to have sex with Jennifer Aniston (before she becomes some old harpy hag or a corpse) but i can't.

[Cepeshi]

Hey Gnjus, get back to the cave...

[Zerran]

(click to show/hide)

@ Christo: Went to bed yesterday, so I couldn't answer^^

I have nothing against shieldwalls, you misunderstand me. What I don't like is, that shieldwall is the only tactic, that comes to people's minds on a random plains map. And usually they totally fail at their shieldwalls, that's what I was talking about. I've seen good shieldwalls and it's is nice to use them as cover (either for shooting or for walking forward), but they are a rare species in crpg.
So next time read again instead of putting all ranged players into one drawer.

Oh yeah, that is why we have about 50 top archers in crpg who always kill everyone and top the lists most of the time.

Check all these archers out there and you will see how many can survive if they don't go on a roof because someone placed a ladder. And check out how many of them can really hit someone on purpose instead of by luck

It never comes to the mind of people like you, that players might be archers, because it is fun to shoot with a bow and because crpg is the best game (I know) when it comes to archery? Nah can't be true. It is all because they are noobs and can't play melee etc etc 


Someone here suggested to place fixed ladders or something so that roofs can't be unreachable anymore and thus would make roofcamping less attractive and delete deployable ladders from battle.
I really like that idea and suggested it a couple of times, but no dev ever made any comment about it. I suppose it wouldn't be that hard for someone who knows about mapmaking, just going through all the maps and maybe add 1-2 ladders to roofs (preferably from both sides or from the middle so that no team gets an advantage). Noone demands such a thing to be done in one day dear devs, but it is still the best idea to deal with roofcamping problem in my opinion.
Some people will now start saying the same old stuff again like "Yeah but when there are 10 archers on a roof they can still shoot you even when there is a fixed ladder".
True dat, but wayne?  I can still get killed when I play on a server, does it mean I'll quit playing?
If people were clever, they would immediately send a couple of fast shielders onto the rooftops when they start to fill with archers or when they reach the house. Most archers usually miss too much or don't do enough dmg to stop all these shielders or they will just run as soon as someone approaches the roof (happens alot).
But for that people would have to stop throwing away their brain as soon as they take a shield.
I know some really good shielders, but most shielders in this game only protect themselves with their shield (they even dodge arrows because they could scratch their shield instead of protectin their team) and fight for themselves.
When people stop thinking, that the most important thing is, that they kill everyone on their own and that they have to stay alive until the round ends, then we might be able to get some good teamwork and we might be able to deal with roofcamping.

Why not sometimes sacrifise yourself for you team? It's a good thing, might help your team win and at least shows some kind of teamplay.

Have fun ripping my post

Just 2 things

1. While its true newb archers suck balls, they aren't as bad as newb infantry.

2. I play support.

EDIT: You seem to think everyone here is saying all archers are noobs and can't play worth shit. On the contrary, we're just saying that some newbs get fed up with running into melee only to get insta killed, and so go archer. No one here said every archer is an archer because of this. No need to get hostile.

[RandomDude]

(click to show/hide)

This is exactly the problem. In order to play cav, the player needs a good buildup of money, and/or enough skill to keep a good multi. In order to play infantry, the player needs to practice a LOT to get the the point that it's actually fun. In order to play archer you need to be able to point and click.

Now that's not to say being a GOOD archer is easy, because it does take some skill (not as much as melee imo, but it's not "easy"), however even some scrub picking up an xbow or bow for the first time can get some kills and live through the round. Therefore, a lot of newbs get sick of dying constantly w/o doing anything in melee, and can't afford cav, so they run with a bow.

One thing that would help with this is to remove roofcamping (Or severely nerf it at least). Make archers actually need some battle awareness like inf and cav.

This could be fixed, without any direct dev intervention, by the mapmakers. Look at Tropical as a great example. It allows archers to go nuts, yet they are constantly vulnerable. Additionally, there need to be a LOT fewer random village maps. There is absolutely no reason to have 6 different versions of the same village in rotation, just REMOVE THE OLD ONES already, this is not that difficult to do!

Another thing that might help is to make the high end bows more expensive.

The only other thing I can think of that would help is to make archery more skill based, but I have no idea how to do that.

EDIT: Also, the heavy cav thing is spot on. Cav in general is balanced imo, but stopping a charger in the middle of a group of friendlies, all of whom instantly jump on it and are hacking at it just to watch it make a 180 and run away is some serious bullshit.

EDIT2: Slightly buff heavy cav charge, but either reduce their health down to the levels of other cav or decrease speed and maneuverability.

Well it pisses me off when 10 team mates surround a heavy cav bcos all that most of them are doing is keeping it alive.

90% of them will be trying to slash with 1h cutting weapons, blocking the ppl who can actually dmg/kill the horse/rider.

As for ladders in battle I dunno. Roof camping is annoying.

[Gnjus]

Hey Gnjus, get back to the cave...

Yes, I'd like to hit her in my cave.

[Grumbs]

I said "yes, but only ranged". My main problem with ranged is the high levels of piercing damage they do. Give them cut damage and make the stun effect when they hit you not quite as long. I'm kinda split on ladders. They can make the maps a bit more interesting as they add an extra route for infantry to attack from, or split the enemy force up and attack from behind. It adds an element of unpredictability or makes the maps a bit more interesting imo. Depends on the map ofc.

Roof campers are a side effect but I would rather see their damage reduced first. Another idea would be to change their mechanics a bit. Rather than a crosshair area where the arrow/bolt could land in, reduce randomness sideways but make the projectiles much slower. So you have to account for travel time more and aim higher, but the shot is less likely to go randomly to the side. Would make the shooting more skill based rather than point and click. Would be much easier to reduce damage though and make armour more useful (cut damage only) and reduce the stun or make it based on armour/damage

Don't really mind cav. The only thing is how they can plough into players without taking damage to their horse or risking getting slowed down. The sound engine is generally OK so you can hear them coming but sometimes they can appear from nowhere with no sound cue before hand. If you hear them you can often deal with them in one way or another.

[Siiem]

The amount of ranged currently even with a shield is starting to get rather unbearable. My enjoyment in playing this mod is decreasing every time I join eu1 these days.

[Tristan]

What would be the best solution was to implement a system where archery required as much effort as manual blocking.

A lot of people choose to start our as an archer because it is easier to learn against all the pretty hardcore blocking machines playing this mod.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Why do so many people here think, that nerfing accuracy or damage would make people play less ranged?

It didn't in the past and it won't in the future, unless you make ranged unplayable


What about adding some glide to roofs?  On some maps you have roofs that are so steep, that you constantly glide down a bit when you don't move. Would it be possible to do such a thing to all roofs? Not changing their look, just make them slippy^^
That way it would be much harder to shoot from roofs due to the constant movement and danger to fall down

[Vibe]

What about adding some glide to roofs?  On some maps you have roofs that are so steep, that you constantly glide down a bit when you don't move. Would it be possible to do such a thing to all roofs? Not changing their look, just make them slippy^^
That way it would be much harder to shoot from roofs due to the constant movement and danger to fall down

Wonderful idea but probably too hard to implement.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Tenne said it should be possible to code that^^

I say let him do it

Hhmm...just recognised, that this will hardly work for the flag desert village houses^^

[Thomek]

Nerf Archers. They became very viable again after the recent armor nerf.

They are even allowed to top the charts on full EU1! This is a disgrace and cannot be tolerated. Imagine what kind of inspiration they are to newbies! But seriously, they do more damage with their arrows than I do with a melee swing.

[Vibe]

Tenne said it should be possible to code that^^

I say let him do it

Hhmm...just recognised, that this will hardly work for the flag desert village houses^^

Come to think of it, there's quite some flat roof houses