The state of cRPG

[Oberyn]

Nah, we playing TEAM based tactical game. And you trying to play Rambo on Jet Horse, but do not want to be a part of a team.

And do not be rude dude. Your behaviour doesnt make your arguments smarter.

Just the fact you're using modern warfare terminology for a medieval based game shows what's wrong with the system. Your crappy little wooden huts are only key points because of the mechanics, if it was RL they would be torched to the ground and all the "tactically" (lolol) minded friendly archers camping on it would die a crispy death or be forced to jump down on the ground and fight with the rest of the mortals.

Fuck let's make it REALLY realistic, and allow all those crappy huts to have entrances, interiors and doors. Then all inf can camp inside protected from friendly archers. It's a key point, you know? And then we're more than halfway to turning battle servers into siege with 1 life.

[Old Autobus]

Yes, I can imagine those medieval soldiers that talking to their General - Fuck out, we do not like this terrain, go and fight alone. And enemy team have one more archer, nah, we prefer desert.
On the other hand, I think that not only «Shitty map design» is a problem, but wrong (unequal) start points. High grounds must be equally reachable by both sides.

chadz made great deal with ladders. This game receive third dimension.

Wrong (unequal) start points = Shitty map design

Also, campers were dealt with on 1st strat time period.
We need firebombs.

[Tristan]

Setting fire to houses would be an awesome mechanic.

[Dexxtaa]

Yeah. Fuck archers.

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Set the damage to cut again

Also, fuck horses.

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Okay, I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak because this idea comes straight from the Nord Invasion mod.

What Jez (the developer) did from there is he implemented a horse speed nerf relative to horse health. Admittedly, he broke the shit out of it (and it's actually faster to walk, if your horse is so much as punched). But the idea was that as the horse loses health, it takes a speed nerf penalty to a maximum value (I believe it was meant to be 50%, not 0.0000n% speed penalty, but please not that much, maybe 10% penalty).

What this does is that it forces cav to be a lot more careful, additionally very susceptible to ranged.

[Cup1d]

Just the fact you're using modern warfare terminology for a medieval based game shows what's wrong with the system. Your crappy little wooden huts are only key points because of the mechanics, if it was RL they would be torched to the ground and all the "tactically" (lolol) minded friendly archers camping on it would die a crispy death or be forced to jump down on the ground and fight with the rest of the mortals.

Fuck let's make it REALLY realistic, and allow all those crappy huts to have entrances, interiors and doors. Then all inf can camp inside protected from friendly archers. It's a key point, you know? And then we're more than halfway to turning battle servers into siege with 1 life.

1. This huts are as mine as yours, but if ONE of teams use this hats\terrain to gain tactical advantage - what is wrong with it?
2. Archer usually cant take a ladder, because you are limited by slot system. Peasants, 2Handers, polearmers can take ladder and help your team. Do not blame archers, blame ALL ENEMY TEAM for tactical decisions and teamplay.
3. I have nothing against «firebombs» it was fun enough thingy. Just make requirements for firebombs. I think 2-3 PT is good enough.

[v/onMega]

Right...

Funny enough, whenever i get the feeling that there is so many archers in the opposing team, I quite often get the feeling that most of the cav is in the other team also....

This often leads to a feeling that something in the balance isnt right.

The fact that ladders are really limited due to slots leads to the fact that once ppl get on the roof, the chance of getting up there yourself = 0
(Ladders simply get destroyed mostly)

What I would like to see is either get undestroyable ladders or remove em.

I favour undestroyable ladders since roofs could get shielders main target zone (thinking of brained shielders), and own team mates would have to protect their ranged players.

Ofc this could turn out to be an even worse roofcampfest, but I like the general idea of keeping roofs accesable.


All in all though, the quickest way is a removal....and, after more thinking, the best even.


In case chadz wants to change damage values, I favour accesable roofs though!



Btw...getting 1/3 hp taken from a bow with 70 body armor is too much....:-(

Conclusion is, UJIN is right, something should be done!

[Tot.]

no

Yeah, don't listen to what active community stated and keeps stating for a long fucking time now, still no reaction from devs. Too busy figuring out how to resurrect strat to remove one type of items and heal (or at least attempt to) actual cRPG?

how about removing the reticle?

Won't fix anything as you can't stop anyone from drawing a dot on his screen. Adding sway though or making it the way it is in Arma/RO2, where your weapon doesn't point always at the middle of the screen but, well, points where it's pointed at, would be a good solution. But I guess it's just dreaming.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

I'm famous! I performed a kill on one of the old screenshots

[Joker86]

1. This huts are as mine as yours, but if ONE of teams use this hats\terrain to gain tactical advantage - what is wrong with it?
2. Archer usually cant take a ladder, because you are limited by slot system. Peasants, 2Handers, polearmers can take ladder and help your team. Do not blame archers, blame ALL ENEMY TEAM for tactical decisions and teamplay.
3. I have nothing against «firebombs» it was fun enough thingy. Just make requirements for firebombs. I think 2-3 PT is good enough.

1. If you spawn three times closer than I do, it is usually YOUR house.
2. I always place ladders myself for the archers. And I change my banner to the one of the currently dominating clan. I hate it to do so, but I want to have fun in this game, and if this means I have to do ugly things, then I will do them. But I would feel much better if there was no need to place ladders or to change the banner constantly. You can't stop placing ladders, as someone else on the enemy team will, and then you lose.
3. I don't think this is the solution.

I demand floating houses for infantry, which protect them from missiles but still allow them to engage in melee. If you have a part of the map rendering you completely immune to a sort of attack, I want something like that, too. That's why I want a house that floats in front of me, protecting me 100% from ranged attack while still allowing me to participate in the battle. I would call this fair.

Archers need to equip a special bomb that makes those houses disappear, I think 2-3PT would be enough to waste another item slot on it, to be able to fight a big part of the enemy team at all.

_______________

And just on a side note, for further discussions:

The only thing that's worse than a bunch of archers on a roof with no ladder are a bunch of archers on a roof with ladder. This way you don't have an excuse to not go up there, and once you try and there are more than one single archer on that roof, you are dead, never mind how big your shield is, because it can't protect you from both sides (yes, even with those big hitboxes).

Making undestructible ladders (never mind if deployable or part of the map) means only to give archers a justification to keep on shooting infantry from a roof, with the small, funny difference that in this case the infantry can't even take cover or try to dodge any more. And god help the team that has 25 shieldless infantrymen left against two archers on a roof with a single ladder.


People, just face it: there is no chance in objectively defending roofcamping if you take into concern that the game has to be fair for everyone.

[Cup1d]

And I change my banner to the one of the currently dominating clan. I hate it to do so, but I want to have fun in this game

What is «FUN» for you Joker? Constant x5?

The only thing that's worse than a bunch of archers on a roof with no ladder are a bunch of archers on a roof with ladder. This way you don't have an excuse to not go up there, and once you try and there are more than one single archer on that roof, you are dead, never mind how big your shield is, because it can't protect you from both sides (yes, even with those big hitboxes).

But you can destroy this ladder dude. Did you really suggest that 25 infantryman CANT destroy ONE ladder?

[Joker86]

What is «FUN» for you Joker? Constant x5?

Of course constant x5 is fun. But everything else than "being constantly on x1 and dying every round at the beginning due to a hail of missiles going down on me" is okay, too.

And usually I only do so if my team fails to follow any attempt of tactics, never mind who is suggesting them, me or someone else. If they want to play brainless lemmings, fine, but I don't want to suffer from that.

But you can destroy this ladder dude. Did you really suggest that 25 infantryman CANT destroy ONE ladder?

Did you even read the next sentence carefully? it says the following thing:

The only thing that's worse than a bunch of archers on a roof with no ladder are a bunch of archers on a roof with ladder. This way you don't have an excuse to not go up there, and once you try and there are more than one single archer on that roof, you are dead, never mind how big your shield is, because it can't protect you from both sides (yes, even with those big hitboxes).

Making undestructible ladders (never mind if deployable or part of the map) means only to give archers a justification to keep on shooting infantry from a roof, with the small, funny difference that in this case the infantry can't even take cover or try to dodge any more. And god help the team that has 25 shieldless infantrymen left against two archers on a roof with a single ladder.

The entire statement was made for
a) the case of an implementation of undestructible ladders, or
b) the case that infantry players are that fair (and usually they are fair, because they don't choose the cowardly way of attacking someone over safe distance  ), and think that if a ladder is there, that there is a way up there and so a tiny chance to fight those archers, instead of killing the ladder and forcing the archers to jump down, which doesn't really support the feeling of being in a battle, rather just like abusing a stupid rule against abusing another stupid rule. (The first stupid rule is "no roofcamping without ladder. If the ladder gets destroyed by never mind who, you have to jump down." The second stupid rule is "roofcamping is allowed"). But again this shows that being fair is almost the same like being stupid... 

[Mosquito]

How about massively increasing fall damage?
ADMIN UJIN says "All you roof monkeys get down down now your ladders is gone. Thanks ever so much:)"

_(o)_Roofmonkey = dead from jumping down from unreachable roof

I would favour a better maps approach personally, i voted no we don't need any immediate change btw, some of the above comments made me rethink a little, i don't want to see any class/playstyle nerfed.

Many posters think that flat, wide open maps are good solution, obviously ranged aren't convinced. What about if you give me all your ladders in exchange for some anti-cav spikes? only catch is that you can only deploy 5 for your whole faction per map at any time (encourages teamwork and leadership).  If you have 5 and i break 2 you can put 2 more up in their place, oh and however you arrange them they will always leave a infantry (but not cav)-sized space. I might even go so far as to let you have some spades to dig tiny pits to slow the cav charges if the run over them (again maybe you can only have a small number of spades and it will take time to dig (making you vulnerable to enemy archers or cav unless your team can protect you?)

OK OK these things would make it maybe more of a camp? but i bet it would be fun at least until ppl find ways to abuse it:) also it wouldn't need any class to be nerfed and would encourage teamwork. Also many of the items needed are in use in MM and otehr mods so they can work.

As you can see i like the 'the lord gives and he takes away approach' What do you lot think?

[Sawbone]

A bit like Tydeus has suggested: removing the shield skill difficulty could be a start (would help survive the arrow storms). Keep the skill in the game to make it more efficient, but allow anyone to pick up any shield.

I would also suggest something simple that chadz may find more attractive than flat out removing ladders from battle: making them indestructible. This way if you create an access to an unreachable area, that access will remain for the duration of the round.

Small nerf to roof camping without hurting anyone.

[Turkhammer]

Problem is I read somewhere that chadz doesn't want to remove ladders from battle. He really wants to have them in. But it's hearsay, of course, never read it myself from him personally.

chadz is my hero.  And I play a pole arm character mostly.

I don't see the problem.  If everyone on the rooftop ranger's team is dead, then he must come down to his fate.  Also MOTF will take care of the remaining roofers also.  Sounds to me like most melee types just want easy kills against archers.  Archers should always seek the high ground.  Why try to take that away?  To make meleer's life easier?

I would favor making ladders a little tougher to destroy.  That way, the roof toppers could not destroy the ladders put up by the other side so easily.

[Joker86]

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend an approach by having others use more items like fire bombs or even shields. This is not what I understand by "buffing infantry", further limiting the slots they have to their disposal and increasing the upkeep they pay.

What i would support is lowering the item slot amount for siege shields. This could encourage archers to stay on ground (after ladders are removed, of course), and they would still remain in reach of infantry or cavalry. One nice side effect could be that more infantrymen can carry siege shields, too, to increase the protection against arrows. The idea with the stakes is good, too.

And I already wrote my opinion about indestructible ladders.