cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: San on January 17, 2015, 01:32:59 am

Title: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 17, 2015, 01:32:59 am
Because patches may continue to be infrequent, it would be best to get it done without bugs or large negative surprises.


New Items

Check out new items at the workshop: http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/alex%27s-daruvian%27s-and-rico%27s-item-workshop-give-us-feedback-and-join-us!/
Estimated number of new items: 15-20. There's a good chance of many more based on the activity levels for the next few weeks.


Gameplay changes

Rolls: Easier input, tighter window, distance and invincibility toned down
----
Minimum population for a multiplier reduced from 8 to 4
----
Better limb damage for ranged, cav, and melee. Removed minimum threshold of 6 on wpf penalty, now just STR/3 + Ironflesh
**Cav: 0 leg armor -> +50% bonus damage vs. horse's armor value. +30% damage to the neck area for melee and ranged and +30% damage to the head for melee
**Melee: Removed damage penalties against arms
**ranged: 90%->110% damage for frontal body shots, 90%->100% damage for back shots. 105%->120% for head shots (stacked with the built-in multipliers), -15% to the 55-80% range for limbs

----
Horse ranged damage cap removed. The 20% damage penalty is still there.
----
Horse ranged speed = 80% with ranged weapon equipped, 90% if sheathed or melee weapon equipped, 100% when dropping ranged weapons/using all ammo (may need to switch weapons to trigger). 0 ammo properly drops when using it all or switching/sheathing.
----
Horse ranged speed penalty removed for the Donkey.
----
Damage feature enabled with 'b' key.
----
added map: counter_strike
----
Wpf weight threshold changed to benefit low IF: max(6, Str/3 + IF) **And later on changed to just Str/3 + IF**
----
Only 1 xbow loaded upon spawn.
----
Greater focus on performance for autobalance. Extra rewards for winning and getting valour on a x5. Better players are worth more score if you kill them for round 1.
----
Siege: Winning gives a +2 multiplier. Battle: Extra rewards based on score and level. Minor gameplay adjustments.
----
Increased dtv rewards by 2x.
----

Other gameplay changes:

-Melee speed bonus: 2->1.8
-Ranged speed bonus: 1->1.4



Armor
-All armor gains +1 armor unloomed.

Cloth:
+1: 1 armor, 90% weight
+2: 2 armor, 90% weight
+3: 3 armor, 85% weight

Medium:
+1: 2 armor
+2: 3 armor
+3: 4 armor (same as before)

Plate:
+1: 3 armor, 102% weight
+2: 5 armor, 104% weight
+3: 7 armor, 107% weight

Gloves:
-No armor change except for +1 armor to leather gloves
-gloves get their own loom bonuses with adjusted scaling

Difficulty:

Body armor: weight * 0.9 for the end
Head: weight * 5 for the upper end
Hands: weight * 11 for the upper end
Legs: weight * 5 for the upper end

All of these are approximations

Mauls: +2-4 difficulty
Great Lance: 22 difficulty
Jousting Lance: 18 difficulty



Bows/Crossbows:
-Arrows, Barbed Arrows, Bolts made 0 slots
-Ammo increase for arrows, decreased for Bolts
-Adjusted Arrows, Barbed Arrows, and Bolts to balance hybrids
-Bow missile speed scales up again instead of scaling down, 38 to 42 missile speed
-Small damage increase for weaker bows
-Accuracy increase for bows. Better increase for Arbalest, worse increase for Heavy Crossbow
-(possible)Damage Buffs for first 3 crossbows, speed buffs for first two, slight speed nerf for Crossbow.



Many weapons experienced miscellaneous changes.

-Buffs given to weaker weapons and 1-2 difficulty increase for a few others. Nothing too exciting in that regard. Most of the excitement for melee will come from new weapons and armor.
-Some secondary modes were added or buffed
-Toned down the power level of 0 slot weapons, particularly stab damage.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 17, 2015, 01:59:00 am
You're a fucking hero San.

About balance : bumpslash is fine the way it is atm; javelins are already weak, same for regular darts, nerfing their damage will result in porcupines.
Also, 20% damage for archery/crossbow is way too much considering the massive accuracy it got now, 10 % would be fine. Didn't read well, sorry. If you want to implement the 20% buff, just reduce accuracy by 1 to 3 to all bows, don't know about crossbow, but it would maybe need the same ammount to be removed. My few cents about the questions.

If it's not a bad joke, it's fantastic.

PS : I disagree with the classification of difficulty/weights.

Quote
Peasant: 3-6
Light: 12-17
Medium: 18-23
Heavy: 24-27
Elite: 28-30 (gothic plate with bevor, maybe some new plate items)

My humble try :

Peasant : 0-4.9          0-6    (0 to clothes and such, around 5 to the very first armors)
Light :     5-10.9        7-12  (7 for light armors like the Aketon, 12 for the last mails)
Medium : 11-14.9       13-17 (13 for things like the colored mail shirts, 17 for the likes of kuyaks/saracen guard armor)
Heavy :   15-19.9       18-20 (18 for the banded armor/brigandines, 20 for coats of plates)
Elite :      20+             21-24 (21 for Heraldic Brigandine, 22 for transitionals, slowly going to 24).

Hope it's decent balance-wise.

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 02:40:39 am
No need to buff cav, still the strongest class in the game i would say. Other than that everything seems agreeable.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Dupre on January 17, 2015, 04:53:21 am
No need to buff cav, still the strongest class in the game i would say. Other than that everything seems agreeable.


I agree. There is really no need to buff cav.

Someone please fix the lag.....
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 17, 2015, 05:09:16 am
New Items

Check out new items at the workshop: http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/alex%27s-daruvian%27s-and-rico%27s-item-workshop-give-us-feedback-and-join-us!/
San's UnderEstimated number of new items: 10-20. There's a good chance of many more based on the activity levels for the next few weeks.

FTFY

don't take us lightly
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 17, 2015, 05:11:18 am
If there's a good chance that anything implemented now will take an incredibly long time to remove... Donkey Hood?

Gonna have to ask the item workshop. Donkey hood wasn't added through conventional means so I'm not too knowledgeable about it.

You're a fucking hero San.

About balance : bumpslash is fine the way it is atm; javelins are already weak, same for regular darts, nerfing their damage will result in porcupines.
Also, 20% damage for archery/crossbow is way too much considering the massive accuracy it got now, 10 % would be fine. Didn't read well, sorry. If you want to implement the 20% buff, just reduce accuracy by 1 to 3 to all bows, don't know about crossbow, but it would maybe need the same ammount to be removed. My few cents about the questions.

You're right about Darts. The +20% offsets the lower raw damage, and it's averaged against the lower arm/leg damage. The damage range of what you can achieve from 5 to 10 PD is too large to deal with raw damage values. Maximum leg and head armor will also increase if the loom change passes, decreasing damage even more if you hit those areas.

Quote
If it's not a bad joke, it's fantastic.

PS : I disagree with the classification of difficulty/weights.

My humble try :

Peasant : 0-4.9          0-6    (0 to clothes and such, around 5 to the very first armors)
Light :     5-10.9        7-12  (7 for light armors like the Aketon, 12 for the last mails)
Medium : 11-14.9       13-17 (13 for things like the colored mail shirts, 17 for the likes of kuyaks/saracen guard armor)
Heavy :   15-19.9       18-20 (18 for the banded armor/brigandines, 20 for coats of plates)
Elite :      20+             21-24 (21 for Heraldic Brigandine, 22 for transitionals, slowly going to 24).

Hope it's decent balance-wise.

To go into more detail, what I think of groupings:
Peasant= The armor that only gets +4 armor at +3
Light: ~7- low 13s
Medium: high 13s-18 weight
Heavy: 18 up to Transitional
Plate: Full plate armor
Elite: Gothic Plate with bevor, since it'll get like 15 head armor with those loom changes.

From what I quoted, it was an informal statement to get opinions about difficulty standards and not part of the proposal since it's not fleshed out.

No need to buff cav, still the strongest class in the game i would say. Other than that everything seems agreeable.

Damage is increased to the head for everyone. 0 leg armor made it annoying for cav to help teammates since a random teammate's slash could 1shot your plated charger. Not going to change bump slash, but I just didn't hear anything about it (maybe no news is good news in that case).
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 17, 2015, 05:37:39 am
Item team teaser (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/alex%27s-daruvian%27s-and-rico%27s-item-workshop-give-us-feedback-and-join-us!/msg1109032/#msg1109032)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WarLord on January 17, 2015, 08:56:36 am
I be satisfied if Mercenary sword and french great sword would be not shown double ingame after that patch  :D
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Man of Steel on January 17, 2015, 09:15:06 am
And maybe fix the weapons which are not shown ingame, some guys wasted their loomz for them
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Austrian on January 17, 2015, 09:29:48 am
Yeah, at least SOME kind of archery fix!!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Kasigi_Yabu on January 17, 2015, 10:36:33 am

PS : I disagree with the classification of difficulty/weights.

My humble try :

Peasant : 0-4.9          0-6    (0 to clothes and such, around 5 to the very first armors)
Light :     5-10.9        7-12  (7 for light armors like the Aketon, 12 for the last mails)
Medium : 11-14.9       13-17 (13 for things like the colored mail shirts, 17 for the likes of kuyaks/saracen guard armor)
Heavy :   15-19.9       18-20 (18 for the banded armor/brigandines, 20 for coats of plates)
Elite :      20+             21-24 (21 for Heraldic Brigandine, 22 for transitionals, slowly going to 24).

Hope it's decent balance-wise.



I agree here, defiantly too high requirement for plate, 24 str for Gothic/Milanese is highest it should go
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: POOPHAMMER on January 17, 2015, 11:42:24 am
:/ dont give throwing daggers a slot
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 17, 2015, 11:46:40 am
Just an idea : put protections against spawnkilling. I want to puke everytime I see a guy with a great lance killing someone not even 30 secs after the start, that's just lame.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 17, 2015, 12:03:10 pm
Damage feature enabled with 'b' key.

This is the most exciting feature. If that's what I thinik it is, will it also display the speed bonus?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on January 17, 2015, 12:50:37 pm
Thanks a lot for fixing donkeys. This is much appreciated, honestly.

I see that textures aren't mentioned though. Blue Brigandine over Aketon appears completely white and requires a fix. Also a number of the newly added weapons have missing textures. As far as I remember, one was completely white and several were completely invisible. Any news on these too?

Also forgive me for being clueless but what does "B" key do?
Title: WHAT ?!
Post by: Finse on January 17, 2015, 03:08:25 pm
Making new
Title: WHAT THA HACK IS DIZ?
Post by: Finse on January 17, 2015, 03:10:15 pm
added map: counter_strike
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 17, 2015, 03:20:12 pm
Thanks a lot for fixing donkeys. This is much appreciated, honestly.

I see that textures aren't mentioned though. Blue Brigandine over Aketon appears completely white and requires a fix. Also a number of the newly added weapons have missing textures. As far as I remember, one was completely white and several were completely invisible. Any news on these too?

Also forgive me for being clueless but what does "B" key do?

It'll be the command to enable the "show damage" option if I understood it right.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Ikarus on January 17, 2015, 03:38:08 pm
impressive.

Would totally join item team if I wasn´t in the middle of writing my bachelor thesis :B

There´s only one suggestion I can make: make sure that you adapt the amount of bolts/arrows to the models. I remember last time when I played that, when I ran out of bolts, my model still had 2 bolts in the quiver, which was a bit annoying :D "The game is lying to you, girl, grab the bolts in your quiver! Aaaah!"  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2015, 03:38:17 pm
Quote from: san
Heavy gauntlet punching damage might become out of hand.

Never!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2015, 03:44:13 pm
No need to buff cav, still the strongest class in the game i would say. Other than that everything seems agreeable.

Depends on population size, but yeah. Cav is strong. Incredibly strong during high pop times like we witnessed yesterday (although ranged is very weak atm, so that could be the cause).

Would like to add these propositions:

That is my humble opinion.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: POOPHAMMER on January 17, 2015, 03:50:23 pm
  • nerf athletics (especially extreme athletics)

no
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2015, 03:52:06 pm
Do you know a definition of a proper build?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: POOPHAMMER on January 17, 2015, 04:02:47 pm
Anyway on the throwing dagger slot change, it really fucks over people like myself that heirloomed them because they are 0 slot and perfect to go with throwing lances or anything else really. It really messes with what they are used for, giving it a damage buff and adding a slot just really makes them kind of useless. Please, do not add slots to throwing daggers, just leave em alone they are fine the way they are.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 17, 2015, 04:47:37 pm
:/ dont give throwing daggers a slot

That was saying that going from throwing daggers to fransiscas have a jump in stats, not saying that daggers are getting +1 slots. I couldn't quote the post, so the formatting may have made it different, and I didn't want to delete anything from the quoted posts.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on January 17, 2015, 05:15:31 pm
There is also the chat bug. I don't know if anyone reported it before. Sometimes chat randomly disappears and comes back after a while. When you press L, you see tens of lines reading something like "OP_Invalid_Script".
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Varadin on January 17, 2015, 05:19:11 pm
Don't care , like that any  patch ever affected me...still gonna rape and gangbang everyone  8-)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: njames89 on January 17, 2015, 05:35:03 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Macbeth3 on January 17, 2015, 05:45:11 pm
I am sceptical about the armour changes.

Extra weight or weight  reduction on loomed armours seem weird.

I'm not sure if I like or dislike the armour changes. I think more towards disliking.
Same thing with gloves. I don't think people complain about armour anyway, so I'd think don't change armour loom values at all.
I also find it wierd that depending on my strenght, I would be pushed more into a certain type of armour.

The other changes, I think I'm in favour for them. I do not think the stats on xbows need to be changed, since they don't scale with any skill or stat.
Kinda glad that there will be a bit more horse-ranged with this patch. I was kinda missing them.







Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: njames89 on January 17, 2015, 06:02:45 pm
Leshma i'm honoured to have made you mad enough to minus every one of my posts thank you.

I definitely think that horse archery should be un-nerfed. It is pretty much unplayable and no class deserves that.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 17, 2015, 06:11:22 pm
I like to think of the armor weight as using higher quality cloth that's lighter and more durable, while plate is reinforced or something along those lines. Still a stretch, though, and won't pass without any more votes.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on January 17, 2015, 06:29:57 pm
Maybe im blind, but i didnt see anything about the leveling system. The two big things putting me off from playing is lag ( which could be fixed simply by resetting the servers? ) and the new lvling system.

Is there any talk about changing the lvls back the way they were? Its not as gamebreaking as the lag is, but...well ill just say im not the only one wishing the mod went back to older "better" times.



Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 17, 2015, 06:34:18 pm
This is the most exciting feature. If that's what I thinik it is, will it also display the speed bonus?

pls respond
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 06:46:15 pm
I still dont see why armors would need difficulty changes, as they all have pros and cons to them that balance them out no matter the build.

This will also only make plate less accessible and less attractive to most, where your build would have to be focused around what armor type you decide you want to use instead of building the character around the playstyle you like then choosing the armors according to personal preference in looks and how lazy you feel on the blocking. Ofcourse some builds benefit more with certain armor types, str heavy builds become extremely sturdy with plate, and agi being extremely agile with cloth, but both are still viable with using the opposite, agi builds becoming slightly tankier and str builds become slightly more mobile.

Just like how only very few weapons actually need difficulty, like the great maul which would probably be very strong combined with a really agi heavy build, but other than that i dont think any weapon would be noticeably op with a speedier build.

Speaking out of own experience having played mainly very str heavy or agi heavy builds and rarely balanced builds testing out most armor types available to me.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 07:15:19 pm
The people who do very well on EU1 and NA1 are still the people who wade into combat with heavy armour spamming hits from 2hand or a fast pole. Yes they're talented blockers, but they also can afford to take a ton of hits, i'm often amazed after i rambo and die like a boss that i'm spectating people at the top of the scoreboard and they can take 5+ solid hits and stay moving, that feels broken.

And we arent talking about Str-builds, these are invariably people with agi-orientated balanced builds who favour acrobatics and circlejerking to blocking although i'm sure they're perfectly capable blockers they just dont need to bother. Spectate Gallonigher on NA1 and GTX on EU1 to see how many fricking hits they can take whilst having a very very fast attack/feint and backpedal speed. Yes i know armour reduces movement speed, not enough.

I cant speak for NA players, i joined there recently and the average skill was on a completely different level than EU and also the amount of troll builds was way higher. As for GTX, im not exactly sure on his build, to me it has never occured as an agi heavy, id guess its agi based with like 3 or 6 agi more than str. He also rocks medium armor, so him taking more hits than other people is based on other factors than the build and armor he uses, its his playstyle. He's very good at duelling and knows when he can spam with little risk and uses footwork a lot to minimize damage. Combining this with his solo oriented playstyle of picking out targets and destroying them in duels, it may look very strong but this is not reliable in bigger fights, where most of this would be incredibly hard to pull off effectively.

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 07:43:06 pm
I dont class 60+ body armour as medium armour, not in the slightest. And as i said, agi-oriented balanced build.

And i am basing this observation of the 'Tanking' potential of these players from witnessing them in gank-like situations and surviving many hits, not from observing a series of 1v1 duels. The simple fact is that they are very good players, they know how to attack fast and efficiently with their builds, but there's no way that footwork and attack speed should be compatible with that level of armour. You shouldnt be able to 'Tank', to that extent at least, with a dueling build.

Depends on the weapons he gets hit by and the builds of the other people aswell, if he's fighting an agiwhore he can probably take very little damage from a hit negating the speedbonus etc. One handers tend to hit very weak against higher armor. Footwork is almost always possible, im 5 athl in plate and its still very possible to reduce damages with footwork. I've had rounds where i can take 7+ hits and still be sitting good at 40% health, and other rounds where ive lost the same amount from one hit because of it being a really good swing.

I dont think his attackspeed is that high anyways, and his footwork is good but it isnt super fast or anything. His damage can also be quite mediocre. Never have i felt like him surviving fights was because of imbalances in the game but mainly because he is actually a very good player.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Grumbs on January 17, 2015, 07:45:25 pm
Will "b" be rebindable? Thats my look key

The rest of the changes i'll need to see in action to have much of an opinion on. I still think the main problem with server population is the lack of incentive to level up and retire with lvl 35 STF's, free respecs and the spammy melee gameplay. People need long term goals that persist beyond their current game session.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on January 17, 2015, 07:56:56 pm
After playing again this morning, ive reached the sad conclusion. As ridiculous as the lag and swing delays are...im just sick of playing in agi land.

And you fucking idiots can scream "adapt" till ur blue in the face...we arnt supposed to adapt, we arnt supposed to all jump on the next op thing, there are supposed to be lots of op game breaking mechanic abusing shit to exploit...and you say "adapt" wtf happened to this being an rpg? everyone picking what they want to play...not what tydeus wants us to play just to survive.

no patch will save this, too much damage has been done, if your in na, 90% of players have a high amount of agi. Diversity, -all this mod truly ever had-, is dead. Tydeus did soo much work to kill the mod, i highly doubt the damage can be undone in one patch.

Thing is, native is alive and well, and crpg was thriving the most when it was alot like native but with persistent lvling, the farther from native it gets the worse it gets.
CRPG should have stuck to its roots, a Warband mod that added a few features...and left the rest alone...you got in your heads you could build a superior version of Warband?

And ended up breaking the shit.

Right now, multiplayer wise...other than Vikings conquest, this is gotta be thee laggiest, wonkiest, least skill based version of Warband you could play, so what if you are all good at it...being good at a shit game does not make the game any less shit.

CRPG is all tricks, crutches, exploits, build and mechanic abusing.

IF crpg doesnt go back to its roots, i dont see it coming back at all. This patch shouldnt be about adding new problems...it should be about fixing the overwhelming amount of problems it currently has.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on January 17, 2015, 08:12:13 pm
This seems actually quite nice, the armor changes will try and get more people into using more strength and less stupidly quick builds unless you want to die easily.
Right now I am just happy to hear something :)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Dupre on January 17, 2015, 08:14:29 pm
The people who do very well on EU1 and NA1 are still the people who wade into combat with heavy armour spamming hits from 2hand or a fast pole. Yes they're talented blockers, but they also can afford to take a ton of hits, i'm often amazed after i rambo and die like a boss that i'm spectating people at the top of the scoreboard and they can take 5+ solid hits and stay moving, that feels broken.

And we arent talking about Str-builds, these are invariably people with agi-orientated balanced builds who favour acrobatics and circlejerking to blocking although i'm sure they're perfectly capable blockers they just dont need to bother. Spectate Gallonigher on NA1 and GTX on EU1 to see how many fricking hits they can take whilst having a very very fast attack/feint and backpedal speed. Yes i know armour reduces movement speed, not enough.

Aim for the head.

If more weight is going to be added to plate, a damage bonus should be added for wearing full set of heavy. Plate would be useless especially on DTV. I personally don't think heavy armor should be adjusted.

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WarLord on January 17, 2015, 08:17:40 pm
The people who do very well on EU1 and NA1 are still the people who wade into combat with heavy armour spamming hits from 2hand or a fast pole. Yes they're talented blockers, but they also can afford to take a ton of hits, i'm often amazed after i rambo and die like a boss that i'm spectating people at the top of the scoreboard and they can take 5+ solid hits and stay moving, that feels broken.

And we arent talking about Str-builds, these are invariably people with agi-orientated balanced builds who favour acrobatics and circlejerking to blocking although i'm sure they're perfectly capable blockers they just dont need to bother. Spectate Gallonigher on NA1 and GTX on EU1 to see how many fricking hits they can take whilst having a very very fast attack/feint and backpedal speed. Yes i know armour reduces movement speed, not enough.

And that, yet again, is simply and entirely wrong, mate. I and alot of people that play pole and 2h and top the score board regularly without even try-harding are playing builds with more str than agi, tending towards alot more str than agi. But I guess I am talking against a wall here  :twisted:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 08:31:18 pm
After playing again this morning, ive reached the sad conclusion. As ridiculous as the lag and swing delays are...im just sick of playing in agi land.

And you fucking idiots can scream "adapt" till ur blue in the face...we arnt supposed to adapt, we arnt supposed to all jump on the next op thing, there are supposed to be lots of op game breaking mechanic abusing shit to exploit...and you say "adapt" wtf happened to this being an rpg? everyone picking what they want to play...not what tydeus wants us to play just to survive.

no patch will save this, too much damage has been done, if your in na, 90% of players have a high amount of agi. Diversity, -all this mod truly ever had-, is dead. Tydeus did soo much work to kill the mod, i highly doubt the damage can be undone in one patch.

Thing is, native is alive and well, and crpg was thriving the most when it was alot like native but with persistent lvling, the farther from native it gets the worse it gets.
CRPG should have stuck to its roots, a Warband mod that added a few features...and left the rest alone...you got in your heads you could build a superior version of Warband?

And ended up breaking the shit.

Right now, multiplayer wise...other than Vikings conquest, this is gotta be thee laggiest, wonkiest, least skill based version of Warband you could play, so what if you are all good at it...being good at a shit game does not make the game any less shit.

CRPG is all tricks, crutches, exploits, build and mechanic abusing.

IF crpg doesnt go back to its roots, i dont see it coming back at all. This patch shouldnt be about adding new problems...it should be about fixing the overwhelming amount of problems it currently has.

Adapting doesnt mean join the agi train, it means learn how to fight them. If there are so many agiwhores as you claim, then it shouldnt be hard to adapt to their styles. Find patterns etc. Play more defensive, focus on blocking.. Respecc throwing and give them hell, if they skipped out on IF they probably wont like it.

As for server being filled with agiwhores, atleast for eu this isnt true. Basically everyone is balance build, some are extreme strwhores and some are agi based. Its pretty well rounded with good variety.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WarLord on January 17, 2015, 08:37:05 pm
Fair enough, i've only been playing those servers again this last week and havent seen you or other str-characters topping there, but i dont remember seeing you there at all so we must be on at different times.

Then again, re-reading my quote, i was talking specifically about the people with visibly-high athletics surviving multiple hits in circumstances where they are not deliberately moving to negate damage. If you see someone moving like a Str-build or Str-oriented build in heavy heavy armour, it isnt surprising to see them able to tank, it *is* surprising to see other people receiving the same tankiness without sacrificing as much mobility.

*edit* here's where it sucks the most that patch-fixes are not something we can rely on, if they were then a controversial patch like this would be fine and we could all judge what we observe in servers afterwards, if it sucks it could be reverted by a patch-fix. Because we cant expect any patch-fix after this patch all we can do is muse on potential impacts these features may have, and we all play different amounts, at different times, on different servers, and look for different things from the game.

Ok, I agree here.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 17, 2015, 08:42:26 pm
lol, heskeytime is, yet again, talking about meta builds like he's some sort of melee mastermind. His entire disdain for anything that isn't a 3X/1X or 3X/X build stems from the fact that he can't block two hits in a row.

I urge everyone no to argue with him. He's the kind of guy I've seen nudging people while wielding a polearm thinking it would result in a free hit in 2015.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 08:42:57 pm
Server and time of day, sometimes you'll get unlucky. NA1 night before last was every infantryman's hell for a few maps due to a quirk in balance, all couch cav and ranged had been put on the same team... i still have nightmares.

NA and EU are usually very different as far as builds and metas go too, so i guess its hard to speak for both..
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 17, 2015, 08:55:18 pm
This will be the third time I'm telling you that ranged adds nothing to the game isn't what I said. Ballistas don't anything to the gameplay is what I said.
It's also the fifth or maybe sixth time you're bringing this up again completely out of the blue. It's bordering the autistic now, heskeytime.

Are you brown irl btw? You seem to be frustrated bringing this up when it has nothing to do with the thread. Again.

Also: I'm pretty sure I should feel more entitled to talk about balance than you do. I mean, if an election for master of balance were to be held between me and you, it certainly shouldn't be you to be elected.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: lombardsoup on January 17, 2015, 09:04:37 pm
More balancing oh god. 

Never again
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Falka on January 17, 2015, 09:06:52 pm
Basically everyone is balance build, some are extreme strwhores and some are agi based.

But... how?  :shock: everyone has balance build and at the same time there are strength and agiwhores? how?  :shock:

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2015, 09:18:50 pm
Can't quote everything so:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 09:27:52 pm
Can't quote everything so:
  • GTX has 24/24 build and ~65 body armor
  • 60+ armor is considered as plate, because it offers great protection and you can force glances with proper footwork, which gives you free hits
  • speed bonus is very important and should be changed in cRPG, values are tailored for Native where player acceleration is lot lower, in cRPG because of ability to reach insane speeds, speed bonus is VERY BROKEN (example, Xanor killing tincans in 4 blows with 3 PS and Katana)
  • STR builds are in minority compared to AGI oriented builds these days, played both for about two weeks (15/30 and 30/15), STR is more fun now because it feels proper, native movement speed rocks

I see a ton of str builds, probably just as many as agi builds. Also 4 blows with perfect speed bonus and perfect swings probably, while he would die to 1 swing himself.

But... how?  :shock: everyone has balance build and at the same time there are strength and agiwhores? how?  :shock:



Basically, not literally. What i mean is the majority are still balance while there are some that stray slightly to x and y.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2015, 09:32:35 pm
Majority can't be balance if they accelerate at the similar rate as my 10 ATH char wearing ~7 body armor and significantly faster than the 5 ATH char wearing the same armor, while average armor is around ~12 weight.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 17, 2015, 09:39:49 pm
Majority can't be balance if they accelerate at the similar rate as my 10 ATH char wearing ~7 body armor and significantly faster than the 5 ATH char wearing the same armor, while average armor is around ~12 weight.

With 5 athl and around 30 weight i feel i move just slightly slower than the average person.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on January 17, 2015, 09:47:46 pm
(When Im playing),Im playing almost every class,also cav.
And I dont think its OP,by far not.
A courser dies from 3-5 arrows in the ass,a warhorse by almost the same amount.Every little spear can rear every horse,at every angle.One stab almost kills every horse(if you get the speedbonus because the cav was charging at you,otherwise it will take about 1/2,still too much IMO).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 17, 2015, 10:05:22 pm
I am only on my phone and haven't read much yet. Plate armor will be less accessible, but heavier armor will have better body, head, and legs. The 18 weight armor would go up to 20 weight with slightly better stats than current 20 weight armor. Heavy helmets and legs would also get more armor for a small weight increase.

Doesn't have to be fully balanced, just not too aggravating to get killed and be fun to use. I just like being able to identify builds from gear and elite equipment that only a few people use. Gothic plate with bevor would be over 80 or so at everything.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 17, 2015, 11:25:32 pm
And your interpretation of my thought process when i nudge people was relevant?

It was, because it showcases your understanding of melee mechanics. You just know someone is bad when they think that nudging is like a second kick or something.

Your suggestions get downvoted like crazy because they're retarded 2h hero bullshit, the only upvotes in your last thread were on the 2nd post where Panos rinsed the fuck out of your stupidly biased suggestion.

Nice argumentum ad populum. Still doesn't change anything of what I have said. How was it biased anyway? That was a perfectly reasonable and elaborated suggestion.
I also happen to have a char for every melee clas fyi.

I'd say your post history is directly relevant if you're claiming to be more credible than me. Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying i'm credible, but you're an outright joke.

Credible on what? Melee mechanics? You bet I am. No one would seriously deny me that. Except for maybe GTX and you but that's only because I've apparently made you so mad already you just won't admit to anything I state or suggest out of sheer spite. Are you sure it's me being miserable?

Now, do you have any more nuggets of wisdom to share or are you going to allow this thread to be about patch input again?

You're the one derailing threads on a constant basis because you're still ass-blasted about my suggestion to remove ballistas and you just can't seem to shut up about it.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on January 18, 2015, 12:15:12 am
I am only on my phone and haven't read much yet. Plate armor will be less accessible, but heavier armor will have better body, head, and legs. The 18 weight armor would go up to 20 weight with slightly better stats than current 20 weight armor. Heavy helmets and legs would also get more armor for a small weight increase.

Doesn't have to be fully balanced, just not too aggravating to get killed and be fun to use. I just like being able to identify builds from gear and elite equipment that only a few people use. Gothic plate with bevor would be over 80 or so at everything.

So far ill ive seen, is that this patch will fix nothing, and likely fuck up more things, all the problems...and you focus on armor weight? WHY? wtf does that matter? Those not wearing full plate will prob stay the same...and those wearing plate will...likely get fucked over. again.
So many armor choices...and so few reason to take the "best" armor available.

Though, when you look at items by their price shits ridiculous, some of thee cheapest weapons out there are twice as effective as the most expensive shit.

You got a LOT of problems to discuss here...why the fuck arnt we talking about fixing the current problems?

Does anyone here actually give a fuck if armor weight is tweaked?

"I just like being able to identify builds from gear and elite equipment that only a few people use."

Name me one fucking NA player, JUST ONE, that wears full plate 24\7, ie Gothic and up...just one fucking player that wears it 24\7.

elite equipment that only a few people use...fuck you mean a few? theres only me every other full plate pal of mine got sick of it.

im on EU alot too, i dont see any plate folks, certainly not gothic and up, and certainly not wearing 24\7.


Revert the lvls, Revert Tydeouche WPF' bullshit, fix the lag...those should be the things we should talk about.

change loom rates and armor weights? Leave it to crpg to get worse with every patch.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: njames89 on January 18, 2015, 12:21:52 am
Hey my armor has plates in it!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 18, 2015, 02:09:02 am
I'm the one derailing this thread eh?

You are, you moron. I'm aswell but you started it. My remark on why people shouldn't be listening to you when it comes to balance was a legit as your bitching about builds you don't like.

Who exactly came into this thread with off-topic beef they decided to try and settle here?

Boy, that sure is rich coming from someone to throw a ballista-tantrum in every thread I've contributed to ever since I opened that thread.

If you have nothing patch-related to say

I do
(click to show/hide)
(I haven't received an answer yet, but what can you do?) and you should know that, having down voted it already like the autistic manchild you are because you think I actually care (you, on the other hand really do seem to care, simply judging from the amount of times you've been gloating over my ballista suggestion getting down voted)

You mentioned a vote or something, well this forum has a genius little feature called a 'Poll' that you can place on a thread of your own creation, i'm sure you can use that to try and prove whatever point it is that you came here looking to prove.

I just came here to a) receive an answer to my question b) warn people about taking balance advice from you. There's no point I'm trying to prove and everything I've said so far that isn't a or b is just me calling you out on your bullshit.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 18, 2015, 02:23:37 am
So far ill ive seen, is that this patch will fix nothing, and likely fuck up more things, all the problems...and you focus on armor weight? WHY? wtf does that matter? Those not wearing full plate will prob stay the same...and those wearing plate will...likely get fucked over. again.
So many armor choices...and so few reason to take the "best" armor available.

Though, when you look at items by their price shits ridiculous, some of thee cheapest weapons out there are twice as effective as the most expensive shit.

You got a LOT of problems to discuss here...why the fuck arnt we talking about fixing the current problems?

Does anyone here actually give a fuck if armor weight is tweaked?

"I just like being able to identify builds from gear and elite equipment that only a few people use."

Name me one fucking NA player, JUST ONE, that wears full plate 24\7, ie Gothic and up...just one fucking player that wears it 24\7.

elite equipment that only a few people use...fuck you mean a few? theres only me every other full plate pal of mine got sick of it.

im on EU alot too, i dont see any plate folks, certainly not gothic and up, and certainly not wearing 24\7.


Revert the lvls, Revert Tydeouche WPF' bullshit, fix the lag...those should be the things we should talk about.

change loom rates and armor weights? Leave it to crpg to get worse with every patch.

You havent seen plate on eu1? Tyrannosaurus is using full plate, Baliff is using full plate, im full plate, i think kulin has been full plate for a while. Theres probably more.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on January 18, 2015, 03:35:35 am
Hey my armor has plates in it!

Name me one fucking NA player, JUST ONE, that wears full plate 24\7, ie Gothic and up...just one fucking player that wears it 24\7

and gravoth. no. i havent.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: lombardsoup on January 18, 2015, 04:32:40 am
I mean is this really balancing? It seems like someone's dumb pet project.

All I'm seeing is the mod's dying last gasp for air
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: HappyPhantom on January 18, 2015, 09:08:30 am
I am only on my phone and haven't read much yet. Plate armor will be less accessible, but heavier armor will have better body, head, and legs. The 18 weight armor would go up to 20 weight with slightly better stats than current 20 weight armor. Heavy helmets and legs would also get more armor for a small weight increase.

Doesn't have to be fully balanced, just not too aggravating to get killed and be fun to use. I just like being able to identify builds from gear and elite equipment that only a few people use. Gothic plate with bevor would be over 80 or so at everything.

Sooo, heavier armour is having its strength requirements raise also? Correct?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 18, 2015, 07:03:28 pm
I just came here to a) receive an answer to my question b) warn people about taking balance advice from you. There's no point I'm trying to prove and everything I've said so far that isn't a or b is just me calling you out on your bullshit.

You failed at 'a', and having a temper-tantrum clearly isnt getting you what you want. If you're so committed to 'b' and warning everyone against me lol please make your own thread, see what happens. But quit spamming off-topic, it's harming your precious credibility. Look at your little outburst on page 4, did it accomplish everything you ever dreamed it would? Not even the people who disagree with me are acknowledging your post, but keep it up.

a) http://www.autismspeaks.org/
b) omg I am infected right here on page 6
c) constructive patch suggestions anyone?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on January 18, 2015, 08:06:58 pm
Just mute em both.

@c)Its always hard to find good suggestions before a patch happens,instead moste people will tell you how they would have done it afterwards.
IMO,cRPG is fucked atm,do whatever,it can only get better.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on January 18, 2015, 09:27:59 pm
Just mute em both.

@c)Its always hard to find good suggestions before a patch happens,instead moste people will tell you how they would have done it afterwards.
IMO,cRPG is fucked atm,do whatever,it can only get better.

you would think a project would improve patch by patch ya, thats...usually how it works.

I think the only way we are going to make it better, is first: realize that it is, beyond a doubt broken right now, and that we should focus on fixing the problems instead of making more \ new ones.
Say what you want about STR, we did not fuck up \ break the mod NEARLY as much as agi has, there is far too little diversity anymore, and the hit detection and wonky combat is worse than ive ever seen it.

Its just not as fun anymore. This is not a boredom thing, this is a frustration thing.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 18, 2015, 09:32:28 pm
you would think a project would improve patch by patch ya, thats...usually how it works.

I think the only way we are going to make it better, is first: realize that it is, beyond a doubt broken right now, and that we should focus on fixing the problems instead of making more \ new ones.
Say what you want about STR, we did not fuck up \ break the mod NEARLY as much as agi has, there is far too little diversity anymore, and the hit detection and wonky combat is worse than ive ever seen it.

Its just not as fun anymore. This is not a boredom thing, this is a frustration thing.

Plenty of diversity on eu1. No nerfs needed to the attributes, both are very viable.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Ras_FrenzYYY on January 18, 2015, 09:47:55 pm
Muted??

Why you muted Wayyyyne?? Why didnt you muted both then??

Who muted Wayyyne??

Tell me the reason admin
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: W0LF on January 18, 2015, 09:57:38 pm
My suggestion would be give strategus heroes a free respec once a month. Feel like it would be a good addition
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on January 18, 2015, 10:44:14 pm
This will be the third time I'm telling you that ranged adds nothing to the game isn't what I said. Ballistas don't anything to the gameplay is what I said.
It's also the fifth or maybe sixth time you're bringing this up again completely out of the blue. It's bordering the autistic now, heskeytime.

Are you brown irl btw? You seem to be frustrated bringing this up when it has nothing to do with the thread. Again.

Also: I'm pretty sure I should feel more entitled to talk about balance than you do. I mean, if an election for master of balance were to be held between me and you, it certainly shouldn't be you to be elected.


just for the record, you and balance dont fit together. You have been always lingering on the agi side (so have i) but you find the ways to exploit mechanics of things. Heskey is more fun organized, and you are just a pure pain in the ass K:D GTX'er :)

oh and reacting so snappy and arrogant will turn you into a minus farm, wich you allready are
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: W0LF on January 18, 2015, 10:47:30 pm
Might be wrong, hopefully someone can confirm, but i thought current strat heroes did get a free respec every 7 days now or something? Since the October patch.

(click to show/hide)
my current one cannot only alts get 1 free respec per week
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 18, 2015, 11:00:23 pm
One can only hope that the armor changes can help the current status of crpg, but we all know it will only further aggravate things (as all recent patches have done), if anything. Make lighter armors even lighter? Great, now agi builds can zip around even faster. Weaken medium armors? Okay, not much change here... agi builds, str builds, and balanced builds will all simply have weaker medium tier armor now. Make heavier armors heavier? Now any agi build can run circles around a tincan with more ease than ever before. Maybe the beefier plate armor will let a tincan tank 1 more hit from an agi build, doesn't matter much when the heavier armor also slows down the tincan's swings so much that they can't get a single swing in.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on January 18, 2015, 11:08:49 pm
One can only hope that the armor changes can help the current status of crpg, but we all know it will only further aggravate things (as all recent patches have done), if anything. Make lighter armors even lighter? Great, now agi builds can zip around even faster. Weaken medium armors? Okay, not much change here... agi builds, str builds, and balanced builds will all simply have weaker medium tier armor now. Make heavier armors heavier? Now any agi build can run circles around a tincan with more ease than ever before. Maybe the beefier plate armor will let a tincan tank 1 more hit from an agi build, doesn't matter much when the heavier armor also slows down the tincan's swings so much that they can't get a single swing in.

When I first saw this thread this morning I was really tempted to write an entire essay regarding my experience as an agi build for the past 3.5 years in the hopes that someone with the power to do so would see the light and set out to fix the current game. Then I realized that even if anyone read it, no one would care enough to bother themselves with changing anything. So this short little blurb was my response instead.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Shatter on January 18, 2015, 11:23:05 pm
The change to glove looms for "medium" and "heavy" gloves seems weird to me.  Except for the Heavy Plate Gloves -> Heavy Gauntlets upgrade, you were always paying 0.2 weight for 1 armor.  With the new changes, medium +3 looms are +3 armor and heavy +3 looms are +4 armor at 0.2 more weight (the same cost as you normally pay).  This just seems to unnecessarily create a gap between base 6 armor and base 7 armor loomed gloves without really separating them into classes.  Both medium and heavy gloves should just both use the new medium loom chart.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 18, 2015, 11:45:42 pm
One can only hope that the armor changes can help the current status of crpg, but we all know it will only further aggravate things (as all recent patches have done), if anything. Make lighter armors even lighter? Great, now agi builds can zip around even faster. Weaken medium armors? Okay, not much change here... agi builds, str builds, and balanced builds will all simply have weaker medium tier armor now. Make heavier armors heavier? Now any agi build can run circles around a tincan with more ease than ever before. Maybe the beefier plate armor will let a tincan tank 1 more hit from an agi build, doesn't matter much when the heavier armor also slows down the tincan's swings so much that they can't get a single swing in.

(click to show/hide)

But the gap between a max loomed plate vs cloth will be made even more massive, so one part will become a super tank while the other is usain bolt. I dont think it will make plate worse as plate is already so heavy most people wont be affected by a bit more weight. Having even more armor though is nice because (atleast my build) is focused on survival purely from armor and hp. The reduced weight on cloth is probably not noticeable at all compared to the increased armor for plate users.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 18, 2015, 11:53:09 pm
Before raging/whine about it, just wait for it, and see what happens. If you know you aren't going to like it, well, play cRPG for the 2 weeks you still got before rqing.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: njames89 on January 19, 2015, 12:09:55 am
c) constructive patch suggestions anyone?

Add an option to sell looms to the bank for a fixed amount of 325k to stop looms from crashing farther.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 19, 2015, 12:34:42 am
Before raging/whine about it, just wait for it, and see what happens.

even better solution - pick one of the following:
- coding (python, html, sql)
- warband module management
- 3d + uv
- texturing + normals
- scene editing
- marketing (casts/presentations/discussions/events)

learn it and contribute
we all started from zero

the least you'll get are new skills, recognition and contacts
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 19, 2015, 12:41:23 am
+1 armor at +0 and +4 armor when loomed means that medium armor would be exactly the same. Overall efficiency in light gear is likely to be the same since lighter gloves would give less armor. Efficiency is taken away from gloves and given to armor. Heavy gloves would raise armor even more than before with a greater cost, or they can be around the same as now if they choose medium gloves instead.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2015, 01:21:14 am
IMO,cRPG is fucked atm,do whatever,it can only get better.

Not so sure about that tbh.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 19, 2015, 01:31:36 am
even better solution - pick one of the following:
- coding (python, html, sql)
- warband module management
- 3d + uv
- texturing + normals
- scene editing
- marketing (casts/presentations/discussions/events)

learn it and contribute
we all started from zero

the least you'll get are new skills, recognition and contacts

Well, it wasn't meant to be offensive, it was adressed for the whinny ones like me to just wait before hating.


And I have no skill, but really no skill at all in anything going out of the basics with computers, that's why I have respect for all guys that spent time to learn how to code/model, etc :P
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on January 19, 2015, 01:35:39 am
Looks like a really cool update. Add all those cool bronze armor variants too. Awesome. Also would really appreciate website icons updated. Also be great to extend dtv autokick timer to a few minutes so players can get a drink or something.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: njames89 on January 19, 2015, 04:21:23 am
Not sure about EU but NA could use a couple more active dedicated admins
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 19, 2015, 05:29:37 am
Well, it wasn't meant to be offensive, it was adressed for the whinny ones like me to just wait before hating.


And I have no skill, but really no skill at all in anything going out of the basics with computers, that's why I have respect for all guys that spent time to learn how to code/model, etc :P

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


>drop spaghetti
>walk out

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on January 19, 2015, 07:25:18 am
hmm ill see what it does to my +3 leather jerkin and +3 mail with shirt and fur :|
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Kalp on January 19, 2015, 07:52:58 am
even better solution - pick one of the following:
- coding (python, html, sql)

the least you'll get are new skills, recognition and contacts

<img src="add the images of new items to the webpage" alt="at least one time together with patch" height="please" width="one time">

Is that enough?  :P
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 19, 2015, 08:04:05 am
I'm not very articulate when it comes to balance threads but I'll throw an opinion at that.

I've ran mostly balanced and agi builds and this gen I decided to go strength. In my opinion, strength is actually way better and I have no problems with agi builds. I don't know, maybe HoC just isn't bad anymore.

Edit: What I'm saying is that I don't believe agi is inherently better and needs to be "balanced" I don't believe your performance is tied to your build.

It wasn't at all going be a long boring essay praising me and my "pro mlg crpging skills," and using that as an argument for the nerfing of, well, me. It's just that back in ye olden times, when strength crutchers reigned supreme, agility was still  a viable and strong option. You would see plenty of this in longtime players like canary and other members of chaos. Eventually I think I became a decent example of how to properly utilize high agility towards the end of the reign of strength builds. My point being is that agility builds were in a good place before strength was nerfed, a really good, balanced place. Sure it was a strong option in the right hands, but isn't any build, really?

The problems arose when they decided to nerf strength because sure, while agility was strong, strength was more than strong at the time, it was OP. But when they nerfed strength, they buffed agility. Strength builds lost massive amounts of wpf, which translates into some speed loss in addition to a good amount of extra killing power. Since wpf affects both swing speed and damage output, strength builds lost a lot here, arguably too much. Simultaneously, agility builds gained a small boost to both swing speed and damage output. While their kryptonite is nerfed, agility builds got better... makes sense, right?

Now while it may seem like strength builds are still plenty viable, and sure, they definitely are, they aren't nearly as useful as they used to be. Strength builds were always a good build when surrounded by teammates... you just needed to get one or two good hits in and your enemy is more than likely dead. Nowadays, however, with everyone being an agility build you would think that they would die even easier than ever before, right? Not exactly. Don't forget that strength builds lost a decent amount of damage output with all the lost wpf (or any strength build that has wpf lost out on a few points of PS), while agility builds can easily just use their massive athletics advantage to negate a ton of damage using the hyper-realistic speed bonus mechanics embedded in warband. And because of this speed bonus, agility builds can often times dish out comparable damage to the nerfed strength build with the proper footwork, which can easily be picked up on in no time at all.

Come the recent revival patch, agility builds became even stronger than ever before. When the average level hovered around maybe 32, the difficulties on weapons and armor were relatively balanced and were at good levels. Now with 3 more attribute points to use, why dump them into strength when you've got more than enough strength for the requirements of your gear? You used to need 20 strength to use any melee weapon in the game, which made 21 strength a good, average (maybe a little above average) strength level (with 18 strength perhaps being more common, especially for polearms and 1handers, who don't need over 18 for any weapon). Well, 21 strength is relatively low now, considering the crazy builds one could make at level 36-37. There is little reason to ever have more than 18-21 strength in a build now (unless of course you want to be a strength build, for w.e. reason), since the gear requirements have yet to be updated to coincide with the new norm of crpg.

Strength builds used to be the slow-moving, hard-hitting, plate-crutching warriors that a medieval knight actually was. Nowadays with enough armor they can tank plenty of hits, sure, but so can any agility build wearing comparable armor. The only time the amount of hits they could take would differ would probably be when up against a blunt or pierce weapon. Even then, an agility build could potentially tank more hits (or even cause more glances) since they could dance around the battlefield like fully-plated ballerinas with their athletics compared to their sloth-like counterparts.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 19, 2015, 01:43:25 pm
(click to show/hide)

You forget that STR and IF has gotten a decent buff so even with str based builds you will get a good chunk of wpf in whatever armor you decide. And i dont think people go for minimum requirements, i used to be like the purely out of principle that i loved agility. But now that i've started trying out more and more build, i consider str just as much as agi, 24/21 or 27/18 vs 21/24 or 18/27 are all equally valid in my eyes.

Also the damage an agi whore can tank in plate compared to a str whore is not even close. And the strwhore doesnt really lose much strapping on all that plate, he doesnt use speedbonus for damage because he has high PS, while the agiwhore gets hit by a huge movespeed loss which is not only his survivability, but also his damage. The tankiness is not noticeable compared to the speedloss.

Maybe its just my opinion but i just feel very halfarsed plating up with an agibuild, i got pretty low damage, movementspeed around average and tankiness around average. It doesn help a lot fighting in big clashes but thats i guess not the average agiwhores playstyle, which is usually more backstabby and duel oriented.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 20, 2015, 08:16:58 am
Make lighter armors even lighter? Great, now agi builds can zip around even faster. Weaken medium armors? Okay, not much change here... agi builds, str builds, and balanced builds will all simply have weaker medium tier armor now. Make heavier armors heavier? Now any agi build can run circles around a tincan with more ease than ever before.

Light armors get you killed on 1 or 2 hits, so giving them a small speed bonus isn't the end of the world. Making plate armor heavier with even higher armor stat prevents people from playing agi-plate builds with unrealistic move/swing speeds. The extra armor makes it a re-balance rather than a nerf. You are better at what you are supposed to do, and your handicaps are more pronounced.

A lot of people bitched about plate users being too fast. This should fix that complaint without directly nerfing plate users.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Quentry on January 21, 2015, 12:36:35 pm
San, when is released planned? Like always soon?  :D
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 21, 2015, 02:55:45 pm
I've looked at armor page for few mins and came to conclusion that this is the best split of armors because there is about 30-35 pieces in each group other than peasant which have double that number:

Peasant : 0-4.9
Light :     5-10.9
Medium : 11-14.9
Heavy :   15-19.9
Elite :      20+

Hope it's decent balance-wise.

Would change the name of armor groups into: Rugged (0-4.9) - 60, Sturdy (5-11) - 34, Reinforced (11.1-15) - 31, Elite (15.5-20) - 32, Plate (20.2-27.9) - 31.

It is very evenly distributed imho.

Also for bonuses I would like to see something like this:
Rugged
+1: 3 armor, 90% weight
+2: 4 armor, 90% weight
+3: 5 armor, 75% weight
Sturdy
+1: 3 armor, 95% weight
+2: 4 armor, 95% weight
+3: 5 armor, 90% weight
Reinforced
+1: 3 armor
+2: 4 armor
+3: 5 armor
Elite
+1: 4 armor, 103% weight
+2: 5 armor, 106% weight
+3: 6 armor, 110% weight
Plate
+1: 5 armor, 106% weight
+2: 6 armor, 110% weight
+3: 7 armor, 115% weight

Extra 15% weight even on heaviest armor piece isn't much if STR build is wearing it, they won't feel a difference in weight but will feel extra armor. AGI builds will feel extra weight and that's the whole purpose of this change, to discourage them to use it.

Reinforced or the most popular and best looking parts stay the same, see no need to nerf them or buff them in any way. Those cookie cutter sub-plate armors I call Elite are buffed a bit armor wise but have extra weight attached, for the same reason as actual plate armor, to force AGI builds to use something lighter with less armor.

As you can notice, light and sturdy category (every armor bellow 11 weight) received significant buff. Reason for that is very simple. The way armor works in this game, low ratings up to ~50 combined with average HP feel pretty much the same in battle. Doesn't matter if you have 20, 30 or 40 body armor you'll probably die just as fast if you're low on HP side (bellow 60 HP). Because of that, I feel that no matter how much you buff those low tier armors, it's not enough because they are nearly useless anyway. Look at this change as a buff to severely underpowered ranged (archery and crossbow) classes. They can't use heavy gloves because it affects their WPF, so they stay at sub 40 armor rating which makes them too vulnerable, while moving slowly due to heaviness of ranged equipment.

Also, you should look into severe price drop for gloves. Those insane prices are from the age when gloves used to give up to 17 body armor. With new changes gloves will give less armor than ever (up to 14) and have huge impact on wpf (weapon swing speed and damage), I don't see why should they cost more than 10k for any pair. Actually I would apply linear 50% discount.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on January 21, 2015, 06:13:42 pm
Buffing cavalry is fine, they are fairly weak at the moment, BUT

Nerf Great Lance. It's lame, overpowered, overused and requires no pole wpf to be used effectively. Maybe reduce horse maneuverability while couching if that's possible.
Bring back ranged speed bonus so throwers and archers can actually kill a suicide charing retard cavalry (used to be able to one-hit riders with jarids, now it takes three or more)
Slightly buff archers in general and give them more incentives to shoot at cavalry (moar points)
Triple the bonus against cavalry for pikes and long spears. Full speed charge on a pike should kill a horse or at least take most of it's HP.

And change the map rotation on EU1 to actually allow cav to play more than half the maps... Cavalry counters archers, archers counter cavalry. Maps where both are threatened by each other (open maps with some cover) will work the best for all classes. Well protected archers would have a good chance to kill off either cavalry or infantry. Archery should not be about climbing (almost) unreachable roofs or hiding on mountain sides, but teamwork. Trust me, there are some of us that would protect archers if it was actually necessary and worth it.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: HappyPhantom on January 21, 2015, 07:24:40 pm
Bring back ranged speed bonus so throwers and archers can actually kill a suicide charing retard cavalry (used to be able to one-hit riders with jarids, now it takes three or more)

Yeeesssssssssssss.

Please keep armour in the 6-9 weight range have no weight increase. This is typically the heaviest an archer will use (Aketon, Mail shirt with fur, Byrnie, Lamellar) - it it would suck if ranged had to carry more weight on MW armour.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on January 22, 2015, 09:36:42 am
Archers will never consequently shoot cavalry, the precious k/d...

It has been said thousands of times by now that they would if <insert generic reason, preferably something with team work> and it never happened.
But I guess that the crpg-way of balancing: going in circles and never arriving anywhere.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 22, 2015, 11:05:28 am
when is released planned? Like always soon?

Patch due = First week of february + SQL error + chadzian tomorrow - tryhards like item team making stress
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: matt2507 on January 22, 2015, 01:42:03 pm
Patch due = First week of february + SQL error + chadzian tomorrow - tryhards like item team making stress

Don't forget invisible and white items !
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on January 22, 2015, 04:43:17 pm
Don't forget invisible and white items !

I have no idea what you are talking about  :D
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: BlindGuy on January 22, 2015, 06:59:48 pm
Ahh, another band-aid stuck on the shin of the soon to be deseased cancer victim, well played. What a joke.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on January 22, 2015, 08:00:22 pm
It has been said thousands of times by now that they would if <insert generic reason, preferably something with team work> and it never happened.
But I guess that the crpg-way of balancing: going in circles and never arriving anywhere.

Happens in every other game where (inter-class) teamwork is actually required to win so I don't see why it wouldn't work here. We just need to change the requirements of winning from melee centric to more tactical - kinda like Strategus battles used to work when both sides still had players to choose from.

Right now however the only valid tactic on EU1 is to form a melee mob and run over the other melee mob in a circle - usually clockwise, but on rare occasions counter-clockwise. If an archer stays back to shoot, he'll be lapped by the enemy mob after the first lap. Usually after two laps the race ends and the winner is decided by a random flag spawn. Only thing that changes this gameplay is if there are roofs and hills for archers to camp. Then the infantry will keep on mobbing each other while archers pewpew from 200m away hoping for random headshots. So actually nothing really changes at all...

Some maps that give enough space for cavalry to move around will slightly alter the gameplay, but that's quite rare and relies mostly on 2H and Pole heroes not watching their back while they mindlessly charge the enemy. Yes the current EU1 gameplay can be fun at times, but it doesn't hold up for very long. If the gameplay was more varied, people would still play this game for years I'm sure as there's a lot more to learn.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Prinz_Karl on January 22, 2015, 09:21:36 pm
Why even fix HA? There was only like 5 guys playing it, because everyone else wasn't such a dick to play it. Why care for these 5 guys? They did enough damage to the mod anyway.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on January 22, 2015, 10:44:58 pm
In a balanced world HA would counter cavalry, but be pretty crap against everything else. We actually had a couple of good HAs last Strategus to do just that and it was pretty good having them around. Then they were buffed multiple times in a row, both directly or indirectly which resulted in the whole class becoming ridiculously overpowered. If balanced properly they would serve a purpose, but the devs really need to think this in a more rock/paper/scissors  way than trying to find a perfect balance between all classes.

As long as every class can kill something, but not everything the players will balance it out. Right now melee does everything and even within melee classes there's nowhere near enough variety.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Blackbow on January 22, 2015, 10:47:18 pm
-Increase slots of arrows and bolts to 2
-Increase ammo to 30-28-26-24 at +0 for arrows, 18 Bolts and 14 Steel Bolts at +0
-Decrease Bow and Crossbow slots by 1
-Increase bow damage by 1 if the limb damage thread fails

Weights:
Arrows 8: -> 5
Barbed Arrows: 8 -> 7
Bolts stay at 6 and increase its price by 2k
Increase weight of Tatars, Bodkins, and Steel Bolts by 2

The objective is to have manageable levels of ammo while removing grief tactics. Removes balancing for 3 quivers and reduces upkeep. Removing 3 quiver balance allows for light ammo variants.


everything look ok for me and sound like a good patch but about the new slot system on archery
it's fucking 2h archers no?
how can i have my 2h + plus a quiver of 2 slot + my bow ?
no more choice than to be 1h archer ?
no way to be pole or 2h ?

seriously plz dont fuck 2h archers !!

also crosbow 1slot mean ppl with 2 arbalest loaded on him +1h 0 slot and probably an op fucking horse

this slot system for ranged is bad idea i think

edit: btw there is no nudge with secondary mode of heavy greatsword

edit 2: you should increase by 3 all the weapons requierement and some weapons by 6 ....like miaodao just need 12 str cmon ...
since last patch we start to see some crazy agi build having acces to best high rank weapons  18/30 flamberge for the example
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: karasu on January 22, 2015, 10:55:37 pm
Well, there's always Lange Messer and Mace  :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Blackbow on January 22, 2015, 11:02:20 pm
Well, there's always Lange Messer and Mace  :lol:

well u can lick my chocolate balls =)

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 22, 2015, 11:11:35 pm
It won't change anything if you use the Horn bow, in fact, you'll have even more arrows than before (0+2+2 = 4), you can still play 2h archer with the horn bow, or play archer with a 2h weapon like langes messer/sickle/fighting axe, and the likes of it. Consider yourself even more buffed than others  :wink:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 22, 2015, 11:45:26 pm
Yeah, everything stays the same because he said every bow will take 1 slot less and in case of current 1 slot bows that means 0 slot. Last time you could mix big bow and big weapon was pre upkeep patch.

As for HA/HX/HT, I'll like damage limit to stay. Those classes will become too much of a hassle on small populated servers again. Better buff ranged weapons, that way buffing both foot and mounted archers. By buffing damage of mounted archers only, you'll only force foot archers to respec into mounted archers.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Blackbow on January 23, 2015, 12:43:17 am
It won't change anything if you use the Horn bow, in fact, you'll have even more arrows than before (0+2+2 = 4), you can still play 2h archer with the horn bow, or play archer with a 2h weapon like langes messer/sickle/fighting axe, and the likes of it. Consider yourself even more buffed than others  :wink:

bullshit algarn :
horn or any bow u want = 1 slot
arrows = 2 slot
2h sword a real one like longsword = 2 slot
____________________________________
= 5
so no algarn even with horn i cant have a real 2h sword

this system is rly bad and will make than ppl will have 2 arba loaded on them ...

honestly i'm waiting answer but if they fuck 2h archers im gonna think about quit crpg (SCREAM OF JOICE )


Yeah, everything stays the same because he said every bow will take 1 slot less and in case of current 1 slot bows that means 0 slot. Last time you could mix big bow and big weapon was pre upkeep patch.

As for HA/HX/HT, I'll like damage limit to stay. Those classes will become too much of a hassle on small populated servers again. Better buff ranged weapons, that way buffing both foot and mounted archers. By buffing damage of mounted archers only, you'll only force foot archers to respec into mounted archers.

wait what ? like horn 0 slot ? idont get what was wrong with actual system rly ...

so that mean all bows become 0slots exept rus, bow and long ?
so that mean i can have a stack of throwing lance + horn + quiver +horse ? =p

u sure u rly want to do that ?

ps : i totaly agree with leshma bout push archer to become ha
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 23, 2015, 12:54:49 am
bullshit algarn :
horn or any bow u want = 1 slot
arrows = 2 slot
2h sword a real one like longsword = 2 slot
____________________________________
= 5
so no algarn even with horn i cant have a real 2h sword

this system is rly bad and will make than ppl will have 2 arba loaded on them ...

honestly i'm waiting answer and confirmation but if they realy want to add this new slot system i stop working on items and i stop crpg ...

From San
-Decrease Bow and Crossbow slots by 1 (not to 1, eh, l2engrish).

So, it makes either 0 (short bow to Yumi) + 2 (arrows) + 2 (longsword, bardiche, whatever you want), or 1 (rus or longbow) + 2 (arrows) + 1 (1 slot weapon, wether they are 1h or 2h).


And what's the point of having two arbas on you, you'll shoot twice, but you'll have to reload twice, and it's slow as fuck. You'd spend half of the battle realoading your arbas with the same ammo as before, using a short sword while even archers would have better weapons for melee fighting.

The only bad thing in this patch is a feeling that archery will be nerfed again later on, but well, that's cRPG. I'm already really happy there's activity from the team, that's enough.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Blackbow on January 23, 2015, 12:57:35 am
whats the point of having 2 arba loaded on you ?
lol you kiding algarn ?

be 2h run to a gay xbower and survive 2 arba shot i watch you !!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 23, 2015, 12:59:17 am
We'll see if it gets abused or not, there's no need to scream about something that didn't even happenned yet :p
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Blackbow on January 23, 2015, 01:02:14 am
We'll see if it gets abused or not, there's no need to scream about something that didn't even happenned yet :p

if there is a moment to scream its now before it's getting added
not scream like u did algarn about the last patch ....

im gonna be the first to abuse of 2xbow on horseback i promess
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 23, 2015, 01:04:09 am
Bah, there's no point discussing about it, we're too stubborn to listen each other when it comes to things related to balance.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 23, 2015, 01:17:13 am
Listening to blackbow at all, rofl.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Hoppster on January 23, 2015, 05:55:03 am
Minimum population for a multiplier reduced from 8 to 4

best change ever
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: HappyPhantom on January 23, 2015, 10:49:00 am
Hmmm.. I took San's post literally to mean the one item called Bow and the one item called Crossbow would be reduced to 1 slot, not all bows and crossbows would reduce by 1 slot... 0 slot bows ... ???
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Susanin on January 24, 2015, 12:35:36 am
Quote
Minimum population for a multiplier reduced from 8 to 4
Alas! Few more patches like this and you ll have to reduce it to 1.

"CRPG: CAMPERS EDITION"!
All your suggestions are mad. You need to make range players secondary and melee primary (as the most exciting feature of this game), not vice-versa!! Find a person who at least heard something about military history, medieval weapons and tactic or some experienced crpg-fencer at least, but not "battlefield 3" veterans!
We've seen enough good shooters, give us a good melee at last!! Stop ruining it!

Oh damit, hate you, balance team  :evil:

ps: damage showing feature is nice, btw..
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: MURDERTRON on January 24, 2015, 06:00:36 pm
Please quadruple the levels.  Thanks.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on January 25, 2015, 07:13:27 pm
Well I was always fan of heavy armors and I am really happy to see that change, I dont get why peoples complain about that anyway.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on January 25, 2015, 07:37:48 pm
Throwing Hammer (secondary mode): Knockdown added

Im going to get my thrower some throwing hammers :D
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on January 25, 2015, 07:52:56 pm
ETA?

Not gonna respec my Police Officer into Throwing Hammers until I see the change log and patch is live :P
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 26, 2015, 11:55:41 pm
Not really balance related, but some attention on this suggestion would be great:
DTV Rates (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/dtv-rates/)

Playing DTV sure is less stressful than PVP servers, but there is no reason for the experience gain to be as low as it is now. Some days ago, we had a really good team with ~20 players on Istinar (small map with a lot of action, i.e. fast rounds). Afina stopped the round time from start to finish; I calculated average multipliers. Even on really high waves such as Saracens, multiplier did not exceed x1.8.

Think about new players who aren't very familiar with combat mechanics yet. They join DTV to practice blocking and gather gold their first couple of generations to get a few masterworks and improve their skills. If they are discouraged by low experience rates even with high waves on good maps with strong teammates, they are likely to quit before even entering competitive play on PVP servers.

Edit: With the skill level continuously climbing up (veterans keep getting better), the psychological barriers to enter PVP keep rising. DTV as a haven for new players could compensate it a little and prepare them.
Edit2: Are all people who are editing DTV stuff currently MIA, or have we got anyone?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 27, 2015, 12:22:45 am
ETA?

Not gonna respec my Police Officer into Throwing Hammers until I see the change log and patch is live :P

I'd suggest you to max out shield skill, it's going to be a massive arrow shitstorm. Even I hate when there's too much shit flying so you can't even shoot.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: brockssn on January 27, 2015, 02:33:38 am
I'm worried about all arrows going to 2 slots, I am a huscarlcher. I use broad sword, huscarl, horn bow, and tatar arrows right now. It's a lot of fun and it sounds like you're killing any possible build for me -=[

Because patches may continue to be infrequent, it would be best to get it done without bugs or large negative surprises.


New Items

Check out new items at the workshop: http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/alex%27s-daruvian%27s-and-rico%27s-item-workshop-give-us-feedback-and-join-us!/
Estimated number of new items: 10-20. There's a good chance of many more based on the activity levels for the next few weeks.


Adjusted Items

Francisca
max ammo: 5 -> 6
thrust damage: 32 cut -> 33 cut
+500 gold

Throwing Daggers -> Franciscas are -2 ammo and +1 slots for +6 cut
Franciscass -> Throwing Axes are -2 ammo for +6 cut (but not as significant as going from throwing daggers to franciscas)

Darts
max ammo: 6 -> 7
thrust damage: 21 pierce -> 20 pierce
+300 gold

War Darts
thrust damage: 23 pierce -> 24 pierce
+1000 gold

Javelins
max ammo: 3 -> 5
thrust damage: 32 pierce -> 28 pierce

Throwing Hammer (secondary mode): Knockdown added


Gameplay changes

Rolls: Easier input, tighter window, distance and invincibility toned down
----
Minimum population for a multiplier reduced from 8 to 4
----
Better limb damage for ranged, cav, and melee. Removed minimum threshold of 6 on wpf penalty, now just STR/3 + Ironflesh
**Cav: 0 leg armor -> +50% bonus damage vs. horse's armor value. +30% damage to the neck area for melee and ranged and +30% damage to the head for melee
**Melee: Removed damage penalties against arms
**ranged: 90%->110% damage for frontal body shots, 90%->100% damage for back shots. 105%->120% for head shots (stacked with the built-in multipliers), -15% to the 55-80% range for limbs

----
Horse ranged damage cap removed. The 20% damage penalty is still there.
----
Horse ranged speed = 80% with ranged weapon equipped, 90% if sheathed or melee weapon equipped, 100% when dropping ranged weapons/using all ammo (may need to switch weapons to trigger). 0 ammo properly drops when using it all or switching/sheathing.
----
Horse ranged speed penalty removed for the Donkey.
----
Damage feature enabled with 'b' key.
----
added map: counter_strike
----
Wpf weight threshold changed to benefit low IF: max(6, Str/3 + IF) **And later on changed to just Str/3 + IF**


Pending changes (needs a few more votes to pass):

Armor looms and glove change
(click to show/hide)

Archery/Xbow slot+ammo changes
(click to show/hide)


Questions:
Thoughts on above changes, especially the pending ones?
Bump slash: 50%->75% damage? There hasn't been much input on bump slashes.
Horse ranged extra damage penalty: 20%->0-10%?
Xbow or Bow stat changes needed with the ~20% buff to final damage for head and body shots?
Any other equipment stats out of place?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 27, 2015, 02:37:56 am
Horn bow is 0 slot, your shield is 2 slots, arrows will be 2 slots, and your short sword is 0 slot. You'll be fine, and will end up buffed, on damages, ammo, and weight (like almost all archers).
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 27, 2015, 02:46:38 am
Not really balance related, but some attention on this suggestion would be great:
DTV Rates (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/dtv-rates/)

Playing DTV sure is less stressful than PVP servers, but there is no reason for the experience gain to be as low as it is now. Some days ago, we had a really good team with ~20 players on Istinar (small map with a lot of action, i.e. fast rounds). Afina stopped the round time from start to finish; I calculated average multipliers. Even on really high waves such as Saracens, multiplier did not exceed x1.8.

Think about new players who aren't very familiar with combat mechanics yet. They join DTV to practice blocking and gather gold their first couple of generations to get a few masterworks and improve their skills. If they are discouraged by low experience rates even with high waves on good maps with strong teammates, they are likely to quit before even entering competitive play on PVP servers.

Edit: With the skill level continuously climbing up (veterans keep getting better), the psychological barriers to enter PVP keep rising. DTV as a haven for new players could compensate it a little and prepare them.
Edit2: Are all people who are editing DTV stuff currently MIA, or have we got anyone?

I think that's a good thing to ask the devs since I'm not sure where rewards are added. I'm not really sure how DTV is handled and I've only seen like Fips editing it. Same with different xp for battle and siege. I think battle should give extra exp based on your points vs level (high points, low level = more xp) and siege give +2 multiplier for every win and possibly disable valour for it since there isn't a good way for points to work on siege. Probably going to ask the devs about that if people think they're decent ideas.

The weight for +3 bodkins should be similar to 2 stacks at 6 weight. Damage will increase a lot on the body and the head, but everywhere else would deal poor damage. Ammo is only going to increase by ~2-4 x2, but it will still be slightly lower than before the revival patch (bodkins set at 27 right now and 33 at MW to increase the amount at +0, 1 more vote is required for that thread to pass). The slot change does allow a side buckler or practice shield, throwing  daggers, or 0 slot 1h. It's neat, but still requires extra skills for it to be useful.

Also about plate, heavy armor is likely to get better in general, so I think the difficulty needs to be raised above 15-16 at the very least. Only heavy gloves will be around the same armor with a bit more weight. Plate gets an extra +3 body armor, +3 head armor, and +6 leg armor for a full heavy set. Gloves, helmets, and boots aren't going to have as high a difficulty as plate armor if they're changed. 85% of 6 weight is 5.1 weight, the equivalent of 1.5 armor. It's similar to +6 armor if the weight was roughly the same, so the surplus is only +0.5, while light gloves will be toned down quite a bit how much armor they give. Because heavy gloves have more weight, agi builds will be sacrificing a lot of wpf to get that extra armor.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Dupre on January 27, 2015, 03:05:14 am
I think that's a good thing to ask the devs since I'm not sure where rewards are added. I'm not really sure how DTV is handled and I've only seen like Fips editing it. Same with different xp for battle and siege. I think battle should give extra exp based on your points vs level (high points, low level = more xp) and siege give +2 multiplier for every win and possibly disable valour for it since there isn't a good way for points to work on siege. Probably going to ask the devs about that if people think they're decent ideas.


Please ask the devs about adjusting DTV's exp and gold rate, and maybe add some new stuff like extra exp/gold or valour for most kills or something along those lines. Not sure if stats could be added but that would be cool. Bots could use some adjusting too.... Thank you  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 27, 2015, 03:33:39 am
I think that's a good thing to ask the devs

Please ask the devs

Asking the devs hasn't been that successful apart from
- Thomek being a great sensei
- Nessaj supporting in times of scarcity™ and
- chadz approving the february patch.

I hoped I could reach harald for shop pictures and any1 for DTV, but meh
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 27, 2015, 03:39:17 am
I think I found dtv rewards, but I know nothing of dtv. There seems to be rewards based on time, wave bonus, and some other stuff. I may have the power to make a small change, but this seems a bit complex to a dtv-noob. Can any dtv veterans chime in on how the xp system works, why it's not so great, and the rate of xp? I thought it was the best source for xp.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: brockssn on January 27, 2015, 03:41:36 am
Horn bow is 0 slot, your shield is 2 slots, arrows will be 2 slots, and your short sword is 0 slot. You'll be fine, and will end up buffed, on damages, ammo, and weight (like almost all archers).

Sweet thanks
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 27, 2015, 03:42:24 am
I think I found dtv rewards, but I know nothing of dtv. There seems to be rewards based on time, wave bonus, and some other stuff. I may have the power to make a small change, but this seems a bit complex to a dtv-noob. Can any dtv veterans chime in on how the xp system works and why it's not so great?
you listed most of them:
- time till finish (the shorter the better)
- round bonus (20 rounds in total, the higher you are, the higher the reward all other factors constant)
- number of survivors (many players & everyone alive at roundend = more exp)
- valdemar's HP does not matter, contradicting common belief, if I am not mistaken

just x1.75 all exp and it will be fine
or even x2
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 27, 2015, 03:52:59 am
I think I can increase a global multiplier. There is also a cap on how much XP you can gain from 1 round, so I can increase that a bit as well.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Dupre on January 27, 2015, 04:21:46 am
Could you increase vlad's HP? Vlad dies in 4-6 hits when there is 1-6 people on the server. It sucks when one cav will pass everyone and end the level :(
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 27, 2015, 06:50:59 am
I know that in a somewhat recent pre-revival-patch patch (which is probably close to 6 months or so ago at this point) that fips made it so that the number of enemies which spawned was determined by the average player level present on the server*. This made level 35-36 players spawn an extra 2-3 or so bots each round (and I think level 30 or 31 was assumed to be the 'average' level, where no additional bots were spawned), with the flawed logic of "higher level player = greater contribution to team" used to justify it. I do not know if players that had a level below 30 spawned any less bots or not. I am not sure if that bit of code was ever removed, but with a brand new player easily being level 34 within no time. I feel like the reason DTV is harder is directly related to this... you can have 20 players on the server, 3/4 of which are brand new, and yet everyone present spawns 4-5 bots each. Especially on later waves, this makes each the game nearly impossible unless you are on an exploitable map with a star-studded team. I'm not saying that DTV should be overtly easy, but nothing scares away newcomers quicker than getting wrecked in the "noob-friendly gamemode." At least simply up the rewards as you were already planning to coincide with the new found difficulty level.

*Before this patch, every player spawned the same number of bots, which would normally be roughly 2 bots per player (the third wave typically has more bots than the others). After the patch, I alone seemed to spawn 5 bots. Prior to that patch, when I tried soloing DTV, I would spawn 2 enemies in the first 2 waves, then 4 on the last.  Afterwards, I would spawn 5-6 in the first waves, then 8 on the last (being level 35). The ratios don't scale up directly, I know, since we never had 10 players against 80 bots (unless that is only because the other 9 players were all low level, you never know), but you could easily tell that it got significantly harder.

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Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on January 27, 2015, 09:11:51 am
I'd suggest you to max out shield skill, it's going to be a massive arrow shitstorm. Even I hate when there's too much shit flying so you can't even shoot.
Police Officer M von Krems does not need a shield - he is wearing the badge of Law Enforcement!!1!eleven!2!!

Besides, I'm curious how much of a damage boost archery will end up with. Officer M is 30/12 with full IF in Fat Plate and never could tank more than 5-6 arrows, sometimes only 4. So yea, maybe that explains why I think it to be plain stupid to buff archery.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on January 27, 2015, 09:23:08 am
You're way too slow with the plated gear, it makes you an arrow magnet. And as you're slow, you are aimed more often, if I can't damage your body properly, a shot to the head this always more devastating (thanks god). When you know I got 10 PD, there's a problem to seeing people like Dim76 (the russian guy) tanking a shit load of arrows - more than 6, trust me.

However, I know some people will abuse nomad bows again, easy headshots with decent damage and high speed will never fail.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on January 27, 2015, 09:24:18 am
I think that's a good thing to ask the devs since I'm not sure where rewards are added. I'm not really sure how DTV is handled and I've only seen like Fips editing it. Same with different xp for battle and siege. I think battle should give extra exp based on your points vs level (high points, low level = more xp) and siege give +2 multiplier for every win and possibly disable valour for it since there isn't a good way for points to work on siege. Probably going to ask the devs about that if people think they're decent ideas.



Also about plate, heavy armor is likely to get better in general, so I think the difficulty needs to be raised above 15-16 at the very least.
you really should, all that balance was around lvl 30 chars for very long time now, same goes for New WPF system , it was balanced around lvl 30 chars too
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: matt2507 on January 28, 2015, 12:50:33 am
I have two ideas for the next update:

1: Script the spawn entry point to add a radius who incapacitate the ennemy to make a couch lance (no more couch abuse on spawn).

2: Make that when you put an Xbow on your back, she was instantly unloaded (it's stupid to have an Xbow loaded on your back because there is nothing to maintain the bolt on it when she was verticaly)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Blackbow on January 28, 2015, 12:55:19 am
I have two ideas for the next update:

1: Script the spawn entry point to add a radius who incapacitate the ennemy to make a couch lance (no more couch on spawn).

2: Make than when you put an Xbow on your back, she was instantly unloaded (it's stupid to have an Xbow loaded on back because there is nothing to maintain the bolt on it when she was verticaly)

1 : amazing idea !!!

2 : xbow loaded on back is not realistic aka jump shot =p

would be nice to script something to foce you to wear only 1 xbow
same to force max 2 quiver instead play with slots since so long time in crpg ...
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 28, 2015, 01:18:56 am
I think I can increase a global multiplier. There is also a cap on how much XP you can gain from 1 round, so I can increase that a bit as well.

Yea, increasing the multiplier only makes sense after increasing the cap. Would be great if you could implement this :wink:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 28, 2015, 07:09:28 am
im gonna be the first to abuse of 2xbow on horseback i promess

You used to be able to have 3x light crossbow and 1x bolts on horseback for triple-shot shenanigans. It was funny but not as effective as it sounds. Reloading 3 xbows in a row on horseback takes a LOOOONG time.

At that time you could also "shotgun" as footman crossbow with 3x normal crossbow and 1x bolts. That was actually effective with high WPF.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Ikarus on January 28, 2015, 11:51:53 am
2: Make that when you put an Xbow on your back, she was instantly unloaded (it's stupid to have an Xbow loaded on your back because there is nothing to maintain the bolt on it when she was verticaly)

true, but you can still have a tensed xbow on your back. I wonder if you can split the reloading procedure into 2 parts, tensing the xbow and adding a bolt to it...
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 28, 2015, 03:01:24 pm
Besides, I'm curious how much of a damage boost archery will end up with. Officer M is 30/12 with full IF in Fat Plate and never could tank more than 5-6 arrows, sometimes only 4. So yea, maybe that explains why I think it to be plain stupid to buff archery.

Really? I'm 36/9 with 11 IF and can tank many, many arrows unless archer I'm facing has 10 PD or something crazy like that. Have 38 body armor.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: matt2507 on January 28, 2015, 03:19:02 pm
BoE mod had an interesting solution to this for multiplayer. Each item was not just 1, 2 or 3 slots, each item took a *specific* slot, such as 'Back', 'Left Hip', 'Right Hip'. This meant you could not have 2 weapons that used the back slot, or 2 on left hip slot etc. It prevented people from having more than 1 loaded musket or pistol at the same time.

This is exactly what we need !
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 28, 2015, 06:11:16 pm
would be nice to script something to foce you to wear only 1 xbow
same to force max 2 quiver instead play with slots since so long time in crpg ...

I still dont see how multiple xbows are going to be a problem. I dont see how xbows are a problem at all, but seems like there are a lot of nerfs being called for in this thread. Imo i think xbow is worse than archery even.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on January 28, 2015, 09:59:31 pm
So close to getting the 2h stab anim finished. (I did finish it, but blender fucks up on exporting  :rolleyes:)

Can't promise it won't be OP though.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 28, 2015, 11:31:12 pm
I'd like some fancy stuff, too, but I am pretty newb at the module. Xbow seems a little UP as just ranged since they didn't directly improve from the level change, but seem better to hybrid with it.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 29, 2015, 12:46:50 am
Yeah, it's better for hybrids. Although as ranged option kinda sucks. You really should rethink HA buff imo. Better buff foot ranged (xbow and archery), less people will cry about it no matter how much you buff it. There is only one guy on EU side playing HA and I can sense the hatred other players feel towards him even though he doesn't deal much damage.

Archers can "fix" damage issues by going STR archery which isn't too bad ranged wise, but it is suicide when it comes to melee. Xbowmen can't do that because their damage isn't affected by any skill.

For me it's perfectly normal that shieldless footmen should fear xbows. Right now that isn't the case.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 29, 2015, 01:18:02 am
The only HA changes are the 15 damage cap removal and faster movement when using a melee weapon, along with the global ranged changes such as better headshots. They'll be much better against low armor guys again who typically consist of ranged or high agi users.

I think with xbow's low requirement, the global changes are good enough to leave xbows in a good position. You can easily make an 18-27 build with decent melee proficiency and the wpf penalty from weight was decreased for xbows, while pure xbows benefit from increased headshot and body damage.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 29, 2015, 01:49:58 pm
The only HA changes are the 15 damage cap removal

That is a huge change, isn't it?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Man of Steel on January 29, 2015, 04:43:18 pm
Remove Banner Balance, it's really anoying with barabe stack on Eu1  :mrgreen:
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Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on January 29, 2015, 05:35:45 pm
Is there any change planned for Great lance (ab)users? Cav vs cav fights it has no counter. Yes, a Heavy Lance can outreach it, but as the damage is too low to kill the enemy horse even with full speed bonus, the result is your horse dead and the enemy nooblancer running away with full HP. It's also a guaranteed onehitter against pretty much any build and armor unless you get negative speed bonus. It has way too much killing power compared to the requirements and skill needed to use it and you often see average players topping the scoreboard with it. Lancing in general is a bit too strong as well which has lead to the death of 1H/2H cavalry.

Also is it possible to rethink the soak and reduce values so low damage hits would actually glance and not do 0.1% damage. For example a throwing knife will do nothing but scratch plate armor but will interrupt the attack and slow down movement. It's unrealistic, stupid and totally unnecessary.

Stop the ability to change weapons while nudging which causes half the attack animation to disappear. Highly abusable crap that most hoplites use when they switch to 1H weapon.

Stop daggers being used with shields. It just feels wrong to see these guys topping the scoreboard with such a troll build and it happens quite often. The speed of the 1H dagger stab is just too much for some of us to handle even when we see it coming.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 29, 2015, 10:14:59 pm
That is a huge change, isn't it?

Yeah, but when I was looking at damage when I was using HT, the damage wasn't all that great because of the 20% reduction. Only speed bonus can make up for that, but then you have less accuracy.

Is there any change planned for Great lance (ab)users? Cav vs cav fights it has no counter. Yes, a Heavy Lance can outreach it, but as the damage is too low to kill the enemy horse even with full speed bonus, the result is your horse dead and the enemy nooblancer running away with full HP. It's also a guaranteed onehitter against pretty much any build and armor unless you get negative speed bonus. It has way too much killing power compared to the requirements and skill needed to use it and you often see average players topping the scoreboard with it. Lancing in general is a bit too strong as well which has lead to the death of 1H/2H cavalry.

Weren't EU players saying 1h/2h cav were the strongest? Not much has really changed with cav in recent times, so to me it just seems like a simple metagame shift. Great lance is easy to use, but it's not OP, since the stabbing lances generally have a more rewarding skill ceiling. I think it only needs a difficulty increase and/or made 3 slots so you can't abuse it with a super high riding build with no commitment. If you get couched by a great lance, it should deal considerable damage, so that part seems fine to me.

Quote
Also is it possible to rethink the soak and reduce values so low damage hits would actually glance and not do 0.1% damage. For example a throwing knife will do nothing but scratch plate armor but will interrupt the attack and slow down movement. It's unrealistic, stupid and totally unnecessary.

Unfortunately, the way damage works, if you make glancing easier, then you increase high end damage scaling. That means speed bonus, holds, etc. deal more damage. In other words, you make it even more like the current pierce stat.

For more info, I made a post about this a few months ago about my thoughs:
(click to show/hide)

Quote
Stop the ability to change weapons while nudging which causes half the attack animation to disappear. Highly abusable crap that most hoplites use when they switch to 1H weapon.

Don't know how to do that. You can switch weapons right in the middle of your own attack, which is just as viable. A good hoplite is going to find a way to switch on you because of the way the game works.

Quote
Stop daggers being used with shields. It just feels wrong to see these guys topping the scoreboard with such a troll build and it happens quite often. The speed of the 1H dagger stab is just too much for some of us to handle even when we see it coming.

I agree, but this thought isn't unanimous as far as I know. I think there were talks of reducing speed when a 1h dagger + shield was being used, but nothing really came out of it and it sounds like too much work for me to do it.

I'd say the main problem is how strong shields are, it's very easy to get an invincible or near-invincible shield. When spam is the main playstyle in laggy servers, it was inevitable that lots of people would take up the auto-block device that will literally never break unless maybe you get lots and lots of strong hits with a +3 GLB or something.

*disclaimer to specify against people who will decide to misinterpret what i say, i'm saying the shield itself is too physically strong/durable, not that shielders are too strong. That shit needs to break eventually, core M&B mechanics and balance rely on the fact that shields break if you just hold the RMB.

Shields break quite easily, especially against an axe, a category where all 3 melee classes have potent options. Shields are powerful in the first confrontation against a non-bonus vs. shield weapon, but even strong shields eventually whittle down after multiple fights. You can probably block around 20 hits or so with the more commonly used shields. The more defensive shields are slow (Though much more viable right now) and attacks have a chance to sneak through a block. Not many people decide to get high shield skill for a reason. You need 15 shield skill for an invincible shield.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 29, 2015, 10:43:58 pm
Not much has really changed with cav in recent times, so to me it just seems like a simple metagame shift

Very simple logic behind it. Higher levels allow high riding builds which helps great lance users a lot (fast horse is hard to deal with). Due to low population, variety of builds is reduced, there are very few pikemen (pike, longspear) who are the only ones who can effectively stop high riding lancer with great lance, due to overwhelming lag. Kinda reminds me of Lance of Compensation situation we had early 2011, before that weapon got removed. This time there is a counter but people seldom use it.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 29, 2015, 10:53:15 pm
Please make it so 15 PS deal infinite damage, for the lulz. cRPG instagib mode :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 29, 2015, 11:04:26 pm
Instagib is mutator, godmode is cheat. Therefore, infinite HP is bad idea.

Quote
If 15PS gave infinite damage, and 15 IF gave infinite hp, what would happen if i hit Butan?

Black hole
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 30, 2015, 12:00:35 am
The number of shielders with greater than 5 shield skill is so low that there's no point in talking about the waste of an extra 10 skill points. 8 shield skill already feels very responsive if you want a lot of it. Shield skill scaling is quite poor until you go above 12 shield skill. 82%->88%->94% and the durability increases by a factor of 3 once you reach 14. 6 to 7, 46%->52% is like a 13% increase. 15 shield skill was supposed to be unobtainable, but your build is so gimped that it doesn't even matter, especially if daggers are made unusable with shield. Shield durability in no way compares to player health. Let's just consider ourselves lucky we don't have something like weapon durability to worry about.

Your average 4-7 shield shielder will behave as you described.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on January 30, 2015, 11:19:33 am
Weren't EU players saying 1h/2h cav were the strongest? Not much has really changed with cav in recent times, so to me it just seems like a simple metagame shift. Great lance is easy to use, but it's not OP, since the stabbing lances generally have a more rewarding skill ceiling. I think it only needs a difficulty increase and/or made 3 slots so you can't abuse it with a super high riding build with no commitment. If you get couched by a great lance, it should deal considerable damage, so that part seems fine to me.

We were when it was true. Then 1H/2H bumpslash was basically made to do zero damage, 1H stab was buffed so it can pretty much onehit an incoming plated charger, while outreaching the riders rightswing, every polearm was given the ability to stop horses, everyone got more agi while cav maneuver was lowered and the horse's armor material was switched from steel to paper. All this adds up to a fact that now there's just a couple of 1H cav left and half of those use great lance most of the time. On the other hand lancers can avoid most of these cav nerfs by simply outreaching any 1H, most 2H and most polearms and not needing to rely on bumpstabs to deal damage. You might argue that 1H cav still has the higher potential damage, but couching seems to be a more useful tool for backstabbing.

I agree about stabbing lances having much more rewarding skill ceiling and personally I enjoy the challenge to kill an awlpiker, or 2H hero with a heavy lance immensely. However I find it a problem that the only thing I can do against a great lancer when playing with a stabby lance is to avoid him. I can outreach the great lance with ease and stab them in the face if they try to kill me instead of my horse, but if they go for my horse, it's going to die no matter what I do. When I play 2H/Polearm I can outreach and kill every other type of cavalry unless they outplay me. Against a great lancer I can either run away, chamber or die. Damage isn't the problem but the fact that it outreaches almost anything on the battlefield nowadays. If I bring anything longer than my Corseque to a 10v10 battle I'm going to get destroyed by the enemy infantry and even with that weapon you need to be careful with the timing not to get outreached by the GL.

Unfortunately, the way damage works, if you make glancing easier, then you increase high end damage scaling. That means speed bonus, holds, etc. deal more damage. In other words, you make it even more like the current pierce stat.

Okay, thanks for the detailed explanation. The current system just seems annoying at times, especially when you try to use footwork to avoid a stab, get hit for 0.1% damage and your hit gets cancelled...

Don't know how to do that. You can switch weapons right in the middle of your own attack, which is just as viable. A good hoplite is going to find a way to switch on you because of the way the game works.

Are we talking about the same thing here? What I mean is when you nudge (not sure if you need a shield or not), switch to a 1H weapon and left swing for example, the only thing that you can see is the nudge and then immediately released onehand leftswing. It skips the ready animation or whatever you call it completely and while it's still possible to block, everyone knows how fast the left swing already is without half of the animation missing.

Shields break quite easily ... strong shields eventually whittle down after multiple fights.

I guess this is where the opinions may differ. Imo on a server with 10 players on both sides (like yesterday prime time on EU1), a shield surviving multiple fights sounds like a problem. With 7 shield skill which seems pretty normal for a shielder, the heavier shields can take quite a few hits even with an axe. I've seen Mircea cel Batran's (best cav EU) shield take more than a minute of constant beating and he's in full plate so I don't think he can have more than 8 skillpoints.

Shields are not the only problem that scales a bit poorly with the server population dropping. Throwers who should be limited by their ammo are suddenly quite a lot more effective and most of the time about half of my deaths on EU1 nowadays are either directly by throwers or getting hit by melee after a dagger hits me. Just something that needs to be thought about more when balancing things out in the near future with the population getting even lower.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Torben on January 30, 2015, 11:52:39 am
I dont see old lance angle,  qq
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 30, 2015, 10:47:48 pm
I can't do any wse2 stuff, so it's mostly item stats and changes that can be made in the module.ini or something like that. While I think the game can handle old lance angle, I think lancers would just completely dominate other melee cav vs. having a few exploitable weaknesses.

The armor looms and difficulty suggestion passed, so my idea for difficulty is this:

Body armor:
Difficulty = Floor(0.9 * Weight)

Gloves:
Difficulty = Floor(10 * Weight)

Helmets:
Difficulty = Floor(5 * Weight)

Legs:
Difficulty = Floor(5 * Weight)

1h: +3 difficulty
2h: +3 difficulty
Polearms: +3 difficulty

Ranged: Unchangd since difficulty messes with stats too much.


Seem reasonable? Weapons were too complex to single out. Do any weapons have unusually high/low difficulty that may be abused/unused for the patch?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 30, 2015, 11:27:11 pm
Wait, weapons are getting difficulty increases too? Can we also put a wpf cap to be able to equip a weapon? Might aswell make super str heavy builds unable to use weapons aswell. (I know Heskey, i did it again!)

Seriously though, +5 difficulty to polearms? even if i'd respecc my main to 15 str i still wouldnt be able to use shit for weapons. Quarterstaff spam maybe. I guess its time to join the tryhard balance builds.. 2h doesnt even get hit that hard, longsword would still be put at 15 str.

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 30, 2015, 11:38:27 pm
I was going to go through each weapon type, but it's too much work. +5 doesn't make much sense for spear-like weapons. I guess it'll be easier to just have +3 and then adjust from there if something is too high/low. Builds went from 18-18 at level 30 to 21-21 at 35, so +3 is safe. Increased levels and keeping the difficulty the same is the same as prepatch and decreasing difficulty by 3-6.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 30, 2015, 11:48:15 pm
I was going to go through each weapon type, but it's too much work. +5 doesn't make much sense for spear-like weapons. I guess it'll be easier to just have +3 and then adjust from there if something is too high/low. Builds went from 18-18 at level 30 to 21-21 at 35, so +3 is safe. Increased levels and keeping the difficulty the same is the same as prepatch and decreasing difficulty by 3-6.

And decreasing the difficulties then would change what? I still dont see how using.. say.. a warspear with 9 str would be so imbalanced. At 9 str, the damage would be at best 3 hitting (thats good speedbonus thrusts) any balance build. Is that overpowered? Or say using a greatsword with around 9 strength, would that even be usefull? would it be viable? would it be used? Highly doubt it, allthough it probably manageable to pull of a decent round here and there, you take one hit and youre dead. You land a hit, maybe it did some damage, maybe you land another, and a third. At average thats still not a kill, woops, a bit crampy on the blocking finger and you missed a block? GG, atleast you took that balance guy down to half. Or if you play cleverly you went for archers and weak targets, but then you could have been shot to death by 2 arrows (and thats current archery damage). You could basically do that faster and more efficient as cav.

tl;dr low str being able to use big weapons doesnt make it op in anyway. And its a niche build.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 31, 2015, 12:16:56 am
Getting the footwork advantage with a long+strong weapon pretty much nullifies most of its weaknesses. Damage predominately lies with the weapon since 1 power strike is similar to using a weapon with +2-3 attack. That's why a damaging weapon and max athletics can be problematic. +3 is net 0 compared to the level increases. This is more important at the 15-18 difficulty level because at that point, because the benefits of PS can stack with speed bonus and other multipliers a bit better.

I don't feel too strongly about it, but it's nice to have the difficulties catch up with the new levels a bit better. If more people agree that weapon difficulty shouldn't change, then it can just be removed. It's also true that strength builds can use fast weapons to make up for some of their weaknesses, but the strength build would always have sluggish movement while the agi build can make up the low weapon speed with wpf and weapon length.

Edit: I'll X it off for now and see how many people want weapon difficulty increases instead. At the very least, a few weapons like the Long Maul and a few others need an increase, though.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 31, 2015, 12:28:41 am
Seem reasonable? Weapons were too complex to single out. Do any weapons have unusually high/low difficulty that may be abused/unused for the patch?

As always, would like to see heavy hitters among one-handers better suited for STR builds. That means that axes and blunt weapons should have difficulty raised, especially heavy weapons. Good old steel pick and spathoslovakion are hard to see weapons because of their small model and because of that, think they should be wielded by STR oriented characters. Curved weapons have been an issue forever but I think them were put in place with stat changes over the years and lack of thrust (which has been made godlike).
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 31, 2015, 12:32:13 am
And decreasing the difficulties then would change what? I still dont see how using.. say.. a warspear with 9 str would be so imbalanced. At 9 str, the damage would be at best 3 hitting (thats good speedbonus thrusts) any balance build. Is that overpowered? Or say using a greatsword with around 9 strength, would that even be usefull? would it be viable?

As usual, you're not very well informed. I've seen Xanor (9/36 build I think) chop full plate dude in 4-5 hits with Katana. That was near spawn and think it was from 100%-0 HP. Sorry, but I don't think that 3 PS build using cut weapon with moderate damage should be able to kill full plated knight with over 75 armor in less than 10 good hits. That's what can openers (blunt and pierce weapons) are for.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 31, 2015, 01:11:48 am
With 18 str, 4 IF, and 57 body armor, I can get 2 shot by a pure agi katana spammer. Sure, I am not exactly the tankiest of characters, but anyone who thinks that low PS = low damage is horribly misinformed.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 31, 2015, 01:14:06 am
We were when it was true. Then 1H/2H bumpslash was basically made to do zero damage, 1H stab was buffed so it can pretty much onehit an incoming plated charger, while outreaching the riders rightswing, every polearm was given the ability to stop horses, everyone got more agi while cav maneuver was lowered and the horse's armor material was switched from steel to paper. All this adds up to a fact that now there's just a couple of 1H cav left and half of those use great lance most of the time. On the other hand lancers can avoid most of these cav nerfs by simply outreaching any 1H, most 2H and most polearms and not needing to rely on bumpstabs to deal damage. You might argue that 1H cav still has the higher potential damage, but couching seems to be a more useful tool for backstabbing.

I agree about stabbing lances having much more rewarding skill ceiling and personally I enjoy the challenge to kill an awlpiker, or 2H hero with a heavy lance immensely. However I find it a problem that the only thing I can do against a great lancer when playing with a stabby lance is to avoid him. I can outreach the great lance with ease and stab them in the face if they try to kill me instead of my horse, but if they go for my horse, it's going to die no matter what I do. When I play 2H/Polearm I can outreach and kill every other type of cavalry unless they outplay me. Against a great lancer I can either run away, chamber or die. Damage isn't the problem but the fact that it outreaches almost anything on the battlefield nowadays. If I bring anything longer than my Corseque to a 10v10 battle I'm going to get destroyed by the enemy infantry and even with that weapon you need to be careful with the timing not to get outreached by the GL.

I see, thanks for the description of the situation. Great lances are meh. My personal method for dealing with them is to slow down when they're chasing me and match my speed with them. If they hit my horse or me, they don't deal much damage without the speed bonus. I then proceed to stab them afterwards. I'm convinced that the difficulty should be drastically raised, but I am also thinking of other additions such as 3 slots.

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Okay, thanks for the detailed explanation. The current system just seems annoying at times, especially when you try to use footwork to avoid a stab, get hit for 0.1% damage and your hit gets cancelled...
I found a better description in the .ini

Soak: determines the amount which will be directly subtracted from damage due to armor.
Reduce: determines the percentage reduction from the damage.

You can increase soak for better glances, but then damage all around decreases. If reduce is decreased to offset that, the damage scaling increases, making speed bonus/holds/etc. more problematic. That's the best way I can describe it. The best solution to me is to increase soak, decrease reduce, and then decrease speed bonus for melee. It just seems.. risky to do that all at once.

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Are we talking about the same thing here? What I mean is when you nudge (not sure if you need a shield or not), switch to a 1H weapon and left swing for example, the only thing that you can see is the nudge and then immediately released onehand leftswing. It skips the ready animation or whatever you call it completely and while it's still possible to block, everyone knows how fast the left swing already is without half of the animation missing.

Whoops, I was focused on just weapon switching without being punished. It's something that Paul added and a lot of it is pretty confusing to me since I don't know how the animations interact. I just don't know how to change it to fix the animation or prevent the option to switch weapons during the nudge animation. From what I know, at least if you're hit with attack nudge then you can only swing the direction you were holding beforehand.

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I guess this is where the opinions may differ. Imo on a server with 10 players on both sides (like yesterday prime time on EU1), a shield surviving multiple fights sounds like a problem. With 7 shield skill which seems pretty normal for a shielder, the heavier shields can take quite a few hits even with an axe. I've seen Mircea cel Batran's (best cav EU) shield take more than a minute of constant beating and he's in full plate so I don't think he can have more than 8 skillpoints.

Shields are not the only problem that scales a bit poorly with the server population dropping. Throwers who should be limited by their ammo are suddenly quite a lot more effective and most of the time about half of my deaths on EU1 nowadays are either directly by throwers or getting hit by melee after a dagger hits me. Just something that needs to be thought about more when balancing things out in the near future with the population getting even lower.

Yeah, difference of opinion. It's difficult for me to understand when there are so many great axes available and damage should have increased more than shield skill's defence.

That argument makes a lot of sense, though. While 0-2 difficulty shields were buffed, shields themselves were generally unchanged since the shield armor buff a year ago. It's also offset by shield skill not scaling as well once it reaches 6 and above. Plate has a difficulty of 15-16, so it's tough to tell how much shield skill he actually has. I still think that shield skill above the requirement is a waste if you're skilled in melee. 5 shield skill shields are crazy when fully utilized, though.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 31, 2015, 01:27:07 am
(click to show/hide)

Crushthrough weapons are the ones that need high difficulty, other than that i dont see any other weapons really needing difficulty for balancing. Longer weapons have higher movespeed penalties afaik. And using long and strong weapons with high athletics, i mean it all sounds good in theory but it just doesnt perform anywhere close to overpowered status when used in practice.

So far i've tested most weapons using agi heavy builds being 12str(39agi) to 15str(27agi and this was prepatch), most success with 12 is warspear. It gets the job done but each thrust is a pretty large risk of glancing unless perfomed perfectly, and if glance it very often results in death. I also did some piking, pretty good, damage is shit but you can move okayish, fun but not viable. Quarter staff hits for nothing. Hafted blade, which is insanely strong (probably one of the best polearms in the game, dont tell anyone) sucks with 12 str. Absolutely shit damage, movespeed bonus doesnt do shit without a PS base. Thats all the decent pole options for 12 str.

15 str i did feel the PS+movespeed being put to work for some damage at times compareable to balance builds. Long hafted blade, weak damage imo, had hopes of homosex weapon but it sucked. Hafted blade was pretty sweet here, not amazing damage but spam potential off the charts, i think it peaks at 18 str though, maybe 21 with higher levels and all. Warspear still good, better damage overall and thats comparing 15-27 to 12-39 builds. Long hafted spiked mace was garbage afaik, just a junk tier weapon since it got hit with nerfs oh so long ago.

Basically, every polearm available to low str agiwhores are in no way dealing significant damage, even with new patch when i can get even mooore athl damage is still meh. Increasing difficulty would just remove whatever sort-of-viable options there are. Anything agiwhore use them for can be used significantly better as balance, which wouldnt get affected by difficulty changes so...

(click to show/hide)

First off, i dont think tincans should be invincible to lower damage weapons (as they once were, before armor soak changes). It sucked back then and it would now too. Secondly, Killing a tincan in 5 hits with a katana and 3 PS, while its probably very possible but theres a lot of things to factor in. Firstly, if the tincan has IF and str to actually use his armor effectively. Secondly if the tincan actually took full speedbonus hits 5 hits in a row he deserves death, thats just silly. Thirdly, the tincan probably wouldve oneshot Xanor had he not gotten shitstomped, 1 hit vs 5 hits, i mean cmon how much is movespeed actually worth.

I do think 2h benefit more from low str builds compared to polearms, but still not strong enough to be needing a nerf. Also you may have noticed me strolling around on my str plate character on eu1, ive actually played him for a month or more now i believe and the only memories i have fighting an agiwhore would be me being annoyed by him moving out of my range and then coming back and hitting me. After taking maybe 3 or so hits i can generally land a good strike and oneshot them. Annoying sure, but they only took maybe a 5th of my hp. I dont watch people, i test both parts and experience pros and cons of each build. I believe this is more informative than having seen one fight of unknown tincan build scrub player that you think was full hp vs good player agiwhore.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 31, 2015, 03:34:02 am
Great lances are meh. My personal method for dealing with them is to slow down when they're chasing me and match my speed with them. If they hit my horse or me, they don't deal much damage without the speed bonus. I then proceed to stab them afterwards. I'm convinced that the difficulty should be drastically raised, but I am also thinking of other additions such as 3 slots.

Great lances are currently the only form of cavalry you see in-game, and most of the time half of an entire team is comprised of them. There simply isn't any good counter for a great lance, whether you are mounted or not. Upping the slots to 3 sounds great and all, but the reality is that since we are in a new age of crpg where there are plenty of strong 0 slot 1handers, all the great lancers will just reforge their +3 1handers into broad short swords, or something. If 0 slot 1handers implied hatchets/hammers/knives, then yes, 3 slots might be a decent fix. On the flip side, unless you up the difficulty to somewhere above 21 str, there will be minimal impact. You can expect most cavalry to be 21-21 at this point, so you can have a great lancer on an arabian warhorse coming at you with such high maneuverability that unless you've got a pike you have no hope of escaping. It is honestly quite ridiculous how easy great lance cav has become now, since nearly any horse can outmaneuver an infantry in a head-on charge. You used to simply need to be on the lookout for cavalry charges and just easily dodge them once they were close since all they could do was charge in a straight line... nowadays, with all the heads up in the world you can't escape them.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Kirman on January 31, 2015, 04:04:40 am
Here's my thoughts...

Crossbows
Archers could run till the end of the round back then... Arrow quiver weight increased but 2x quiver makes them really heavy. In the meantime we had a revival patch which allows us to get extra attributes. Now archers are decent but xbows are like the old archers. I mean you can easily run with a 18/24-27-30 build.  A litle balance on weights might work if conisder it as ''ranged''. Also if we compare melee effectivness, xbows are superior. Yes, they have reload time. There might be a skill like ''power draw/power strike'' to use a crossbow also reducing the reload speed a bit. This way they have to choose what they really want to do ranged or melee... Otherwise i don't see a point choosing archery over crossbow.

Couch
If we look at it realistic. It should be broken after one couch. I'm not sure if it's doable but we really need it since lots of people abuses it. I miss the glory days of pocketpike  :cry:

1H Stab
I know it was completely useless before. Now it has a great use.(Gankings) But it's kinda too fast...(or ping issues)

Horse Archers
Nope!

Throwing
Are there any limit to damage increase at power throw? like power draw? Cause it's possible to see throwing daggers/knives can kill a heavily armored guy. Yeah it looks funny but come on.

Weapon changing
This one is weird and i've seen it lately. Not sure if it happens on every case but there was a guy on EU. Throwing snowflakes then suddenly changes to melee weapon and swings faster than a jet plane.

Pikeman
Where are they? I'm not talking about having a spear on your back or new fancy 2d polearms. Long Spear and Pike. I don't reallly know what to do here since i'm missing pocketpike it won't be fair  :lol:

Ladders&Siege equipments
We need to find use for this. At least on siege.



I kinda agree with http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/what's-wrong-with-crpg-right-now/ this.  But i think weapons should stay same. Everyone should be able to use their weapon of choice with their build of choice.  (Melee only)





Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on January 31, 2015, 04:57:56 am
i don't see a point choosing archery over crossbow
accuracy
rate of fire
trajectory
projectile visibility
slots
roleplay theme
superiority in ranged vs ranged
higher valor chance
anticav advantage
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on January 31, 2015, 05:29:57 am
@Jona
Cav maneuver is lower and athletics is higher, so shouldn't it be easier than before? When I said "meh," I meant that they were annoying to deal with and fix. I didn't explain that well in my post at all, lol. I'm more focused on cav vs. cav, and 19 difficulty is enough where other cav can reasonably deal with them vs. an optimized 11/3x great lancer build. I haven't played much because of Smash Bros. taking up gaming time lately, but I only recall bad cav using great lances or 1h cav that wanted a temporary boost. I don't really like low-skill playstyles like great lances, but I acknowledge that they have their place.

@Xside
Thanks for the post. I don't know what to do with xbows. They'll be buffed with the limb change. I'm thinking of just giving them a little bit extra accuracy so they'll at least be "pickup and play" for low wpf users and high wpf users get some better accuracy even though they're limited with wpf caps to accuracy.

I don't know how to add great lances breaking after a couch. If there was a trigger for couching, I would just decrease the great lance's damage for each couch to simulate a loss of durability. I think that would balance the risk vs. reward without being that unfair. I can't find such a trigger, though.

1h stab is all stats. You can't change 99-100 speed with good damage very easily. All of the good stabbing 1hs have poor swing damage, while the fast polearms at least deal blunt and the stabby 2hs have usable amounts of cut damage with the exception of the Estoc.

HAs: lol

I think I'm a little out of touch about how throwing is affecting the servers. This kind of thing was why archery damage was initially decreased so much as well. Can't really change them being good with few people on. A shield may be needed. Board shields were buffed with better coverage for those kinds of situations.

Sometimes you can't see animations properly. The guy could've been mostly a melee build and used a strategy of forcing approaches with the snowflakes.

I leave pike and long spear stuff to experts like Gurnisson. The only change they had was decreased weight so they can turn more easily.

To get ladders back, you'd need to discuss that with Scene Managers in order to get ladder-friendly maps in rotation.

New addition:
-Extreme speed bonus damages reduced for melee while regular speed bonus hits should deal the same damage. Some speed bonus has been added to ranged, but not as much as it used to be since I'll need to check how all of these changes are stacking with each other.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 31, 2015, 10:46:22 am
Cav maneuver is lower and athletics is higher, so shouldn't it be easier than before? When I said "meh," I meant that they were annoying to deal with and fix. I didn't explain that well in my post at all, lol. I'm more focused on cav vs. cav, and 19 difficulty is enough where other cav can reasonably deal with them vs. an optimized 11/3x great lancer build. I haven't played much because of Smash Bros. taking up gaming time lately, but I only recall bad cav using great lances or 1h cav that wanted a temporary boost. I don't really like low-skill playstyles like great lances, but I acknowledge that they have their place.

Horse maneuverability ratings might have been lowered in the most recent patch, but nowadays people can get crazy builds going where they easily fit 9-10 riding in. This allows them to have more control over their horses, despite the horse nerf. Other than that, the main issue I seem to have with great lances is their absurd hitbox. Pretty much every weapon has a dumb hitbox in warband, but it is especially frustrating when the weapon in question deals high damage, often enough to oneshot you, and also can't even be blocked. Assuming the hitbox runs the entire length of the lance, if not most of it, that would make it possible to get hit after the very tip of hit hits your body... and this is what seems to get me all the time. Maybe it is just the janky servers doing what they do best, but very often I seem to get "hilt slashed" by a couched lance. I will see the point of it go over my head, think "Phew, barely dodged the bullet on that one" and then hear a thud and drop dead within a split second as the rest of the lance passes by/through me. If anything, could the hitbox simply be changed so that it encompasses only the very tip of the couched lance, limiting their effective hitting range?

No harm in letting smash take up most of your gaming time, we all know it's a far more well-made and enjoyable game than crpg, but it couldn't hurt to try and hop on crpg some time and see the despicable state the mod is currently in. With such a small server population, pikes and longspears (and most support polearms) are nearly nonexistent, since any support build requires enough teammates to fight alongside. When your entire team consists of 10 people, spread out over a map made for 50v50 battles, you would be lucky to even fight alongside two allies unless you've got a clanstack going/some really astounding teamwork for a pub group. The low population itself changes the entire meta of the game, and this changes what is arguably OP/UP at the moment. Unfortunately things like this can't easily be balanced by tweaking stats on weapons, but you just have to recognize the fact that many of the counters  lance cavalry have all but disappeared nowadays.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: chesterotab on January 31, 2015, 12:59:19 pm
i love charging great lance users and out ranging couchers with muh +3 regular lance. i imagine they will largely disappear with a 19 difficulty nerf. cav vs cav, lance vs lance, head on battles makes my dick hard.

dodging great lance while on foot is easy as fuck if you are watching for them, hell you can even chamber the guy. the timing is the easiest chamber in the game unless they are a couch god that aims upward and pulls down after baiting the chamber. if you cant chamber 9/10 couches, you should kill yourself practice. They should only be a threat when you are engaged in a hard to win melee/team melee and can't be bothered to check around for charging cav in which case you deserve to die in that scenario.

also if you main anyone other than Ganondorf or Bowser, ur a fgt.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 31, 2015, 02:04:42 pm
I leave pike and long spear stuff to experts like Gurnisson.

He might be an expert and all but dude doesn't play cRPG anymore, at all. Never understood why is chadz so lazy to ask his balancing staff every few months to see do they still play the mod or not.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on January 31, 2015, 02:23:01 pm
As I said earlier and some commented already, bringing a longspear or pike to a 10v10 battle is suicide. In big group fights they are still arguably overpowered, but even the best abusers can't fight with them 1on1 for long. As Jona said this has caused the annoying side effect that lancer cav is now the best class in game. It doesn't help that if you dismount the guy he's a fully equipped infantry player with either 1H+Shield or a Poleaxe.

Also when it comes to balancing there seems to be huge differences between NA and EU and these threads seem to represent the NA much more which causes some confusion I'm sure. On EU we form gank mobs that go through the map in a clockwise motion destroying everything on their way while cavalry mostly tries to backstab people. On NA people will spread out from the spawn in four different directions for whatever reason and half of them can't score a single point in a round. The armor values on NA are also considerably lower as is the average skill level, making it totally different meta compared to EU. I suggest the NA players go to EU servers to see how it works and vice versa. What time is the NA prime time if I want to join again when the better players are actually on?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: pepejul on January 31, 2015, 06:21:36 pm
PEPE WANTS HERALDIC PANTIES !!!!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 31, 2015, 07:50:21 pm
As I said earlier and some commented already, bringing a longspear or pike to a 10v10 battle is suicide. In big group fights they are still arguably overpowered, but even the best abusers can't fight with them 1on1 for long.

Dieler, Teeth, Chase. Especially Dieler i have noticed being particularly strong even outnumbered with a longspear.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on January 31, 2015, 08:26:08 pm
Seen Teeth three times during last two months, Dieler twice (both times he was throwing stones or some shit), Chase just once and he was online for less than 10 minutes.

Do you have recent example?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on January 31, 2015, 09:12:51 pm
The armor values on NA are also considerably lower as is the average skill level, making it totally different meta compared to EU. I suggest the NA players go to EU servers to see how it works and vice versa. What time is the NA prime time if I want to join again when the better players are actually on?

I play on EU from time to time, sometime during their primetime, and what I've noticed is that yes, the average armor level is normally higher, however the average skill level is not. Now, before we start an EU vs. NA flame thread, here is the very simple reason why: the NA servers are populated by 80% veterans, and at most 20% noobs at this point. Only the die-hards still play regularly, as they have for years. In EU, since the server population is so much larger than NA, the average skill level seems to be slightly lower, simply because there are far more new players just trying crpg or warband out for the first time. That said, NA does seem to have more "no-name" players on at any given time than ever before, simply because most of the veterans have finally given up hope since last patch.

Regardless, the EU vs. NA meta will always be different; EU favors more strength builds with heavy armor running around using mob tactics, while NA prefers agility builds using ninja tactics. Recently an EU guy showed up to NA and was like "WOW NO CAV OMG OMG OMG I LOVE USA!" to which everyone simply replied "You just showed up at the right time." If you don't frequent either side of the pond regularly, it is definitely hard to jump to conclusions about their meta.

NA primetime is probably anywhere from 2am - 6am your time. However, we really don't have much of a primetime left, since it seems to be 10v10 at best, all the time. If you show up to an NA server and it is 15v15 or more, then just consider that primetime.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 31, 2015, 09:39:36 pm
Seen Teeth three times during last two months, Dieler twice (both times he was throwing stones or some shit), Chase just once and he was online for less than 10 minutes.

Do you have recent example?

Its not like long spears or pikes have been nerfed recently, so nothing has really changed. Or well, more levels i guess, but im not sure that changes much. Im sure they would still perform just as well with those weapons, but the weapons are lacking now that playernumbers have gone down.

I did a bit of piking with my 12-39 main, was okay but damage is shit with that build. I might just respecc my stf to some decent piking build and give it a shot.

I play on EU from time to time, sometime during their primetime, and what I've noticed is that yes, the average armor level is normally higher, however the average skill level is not. Now, before we start an EU vs. NA flame thread, here is the very simple reason why: the NA servers are populated by 80% veterans, and at most 20% noobs at this point. Only the die-hards still play regularly, as they have for years. In EU, since the server population is so much larger than NA, the average skill level seems to be slightly lower, simply because there are far more new players just trying crpg or warband out for the first time. That said, NA does seem to have more "no-name" players on at any given time than ever before, simply because most of the veterans have finally given up hope since last patch.

Each time ive ventured into NA theres been 2 or 3 people who knew how to block and those would get 3 or 4:0 kd's because the rest is just trash. Lots of peasants everywhere. Hell, im even pulling off 2.5:0 kd's there with little effort and 140 ping. Alltho ive only drifted into those servers like 2 or 3 times recently.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 01, 2015, 12:51:45 am
Its not like long spears or pikes have been nerfed recently, so nothing has really changed. Or well, more levels i guess, but im not sure that changes much. Im sure they would still perform just as well with those weapons, but the weapons are lacking now that playernumbers have gone down.

I did a bit of piking with my 12-39 main, was okay but damage is shit with that build. I might just respecc my stf to some decent piking build and give it a shot.

Everything changed with rejuvenation patch (or whatever its called). Even if pikes didn't change that doesn't mean they were affected. Only pikemen I saw since then was Makelele and he was doing it for a day (he usually fool around) and and that Kalmarin dude (can't remember the full nick) but he was online few times only. Crojo also use spears but not pike/longspear.

What is the real issue with couching on EU side? Matthaus or Riddaren who wears plate, have extreme agi riding build and coloured lance. He's skilled at cav and was creating a havoc whenever he was on. Even Fin admitted he can't chamber him successfully because of high speed and even when you do it, bump-couch is about to happen. After him, other players tried that build and it worked for them as well. It doesn't involve skill at all, anyone can do it and have awesome k/d and points and that is what is bothering people in the first place.

At this point we don't need to generalize, very few active players left. Easy to identify a player people are talking and complaining about. Like Xanor, like ShokyTheRat (someone mentioned thrower who changes to melee and hits like a truck, that is him). People are bothered when non-conformist builds do well and I support them because I prefer native way where everybody starts the same way.

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Each time ive ventured into NA theres been 2 or 3 people who knew how to block

That is true but works both ways. You see, having high ping is both a blessing and a burden. You can exploit in a way, to get the first hit. But you can't block well fast weapons with high ping. I and many other players have a hard time fighting NA players on our EU servers, guess that goes the other way as well. There's a member of Hobo guild, nick Nee, who play on EU whole day. When I'm fighting that dude feels like we're in dense mud and our hits are 2 seconds late. But only when I'm fighting him. Dunno what's the case there, but fighting NA guys on EU isn't easy as it seems. For example, today dude in full plate nick Egad was creating a havoc on EU2. So it's not just the case of EU players visiting NA and doing well. It can go both ways.

Many players on EU can't block just like many can't on NA. For example I can't block for shit, partially because of lag and because of my build (45/3, 45 2H wpf). My weapon reaction time is atrocious. On native servers with good ping I can block even the fastest feints they can pull off.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 01, 2015, 01:25:06 am
You know ping is just a delay, right ? You can't exploit it in any way, it will not make you hit faster; sure, you can anticipate the time you'll have to hit, but you'll just hit as on a EU server, and you won't be able to block shit. Source : some hours on NA with 140 ping.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 01, 2015, 01:32:04 am
You know ping is just a delay, right ? You can't exploit it in any way, it will not make you hit faster; sure, you can anticipate the time you'll have to hit, but you'll just hit as on a EU server, and you won't be able to block shit. Source : some hours on NA with 140 ping.

Did you play archer or melee? because those are completely different. With 140 ping i could narrowly block attacks, unless they were good spams, or just hilt slashes. At some points people feinted and then things got rough, but i think i only met one person who did it.

Everything changed with rejuvenation patch (or whatever its called). Even if pikes didn't change that doesn't mean they were affected. Only pikemen I saw since then was Makelele and he was doing it for a day (he usually fool around) and and that Kalmarin dude (can't remember the full nick) but he was online few times only. Crojo also use spears but not pike/longspear.

What is the real issue with couching on EU side? Matthaus or Riddaren who wears plate, have extreme agi riding build and coloured lance. He's skilled at cav and was creating a havoc whenever he was on. Even Fin admitted he can't chamber him successfully because of high speed and even when you do it, bump-couch is about to happen. After him, other players tried that build and it worked for them as well. It doesn't involve skill at all, anyone can do it and have awesome k/d and points and that is what is bothering people in the first place.

I dont think things changed that much for infantry in the patch, i think it affected range hybrids more. I did a short session of long spearing, it was strong and felt no different than pre-revival. Unfortunately i got pissed of because i played like complete ass so i switched over to stronk shielder (god i love strength now), and also having krems on my team may have been a slight factor  :oops:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 01, 2015, 01:42:37 am
Long time ago, I played archer (1 good year ago for sure, when 21/21 build was still viable). I played cav/inf recently, (one week or two ago, as a 21/21 hybrid), and it was the same, ping will get you killed, because it's a weight, and not an advantage, in any way.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on February 01, 2015, 02:17:25 am
Even if pikes didn't change that doesn't mean they were affected. Only pikemen I saw since then was Makelele and he was doing it for a day (he usually fool around) and and that Kalmarin dude (can't remember the full nick)

One of my alts prolly (Mean Mr Mustard or Father McKenzie). Crojo's used a pike as well, but usually got pissed off at us for not helping him :mrgreen:

There's a reason I haven't been playing piker for a while now and that's the low number of players on atm. I'll just get ganked after a couple of stabs and then it's back to my one slot spear. It's just pointless and my +3 pike sits in the armory unused at the moment and I'll just pick a poleaxe and go through the enemy formation randomly swinging tanking heavy armor. Hardmode. While the number of players dropping is an indirect nerf to otherwise pretty decently balanced pikers, it's an indirect buff for lancers making them too strong atm - especially those noobish great lancers. The only reason they aren't topping the scoreboard every single round (just like 80%) is the terribad map rotation on EU1. Hadn't mentioned it in about three posts, so had to put it in here.

Jona, I agree we should have a different topic for the NA/EU flame war. But we should still have it :twisted:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 01, 2015, 04:33:42 am
There's a reason I haven't been playing piker for a while now and that's the low number of players on atm.

Yep, exactly. It is quite hard to take these sort of things into consideration when balancing the game, but server population is directly related to the current meta. If you've got a 10v10 server, odds are most of those players are going to be infantry, with maybe a couple ranged on each team. Then when that one couch lancer shows up, they have virtually no weakness since no infantry is going to give up the ability to kill in melee (and start getting ganked) just to bring a pike and *hopefully* kill the cav.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 01, 2015, 05:01:29 am
80 ping to eu1? some eu people are jelly now
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Teeth on February 01, 2015, 12:11:31 pm
To be honest I haven't been playing much pike for a year now, even when I did actually play, simply because it is not that much fun to play against. As player numbers started declining I could just feel the rage whenever I stabbed someone over the head of 2 teammates and through 3 others. If you have melee cover and are somewhat competent with the wiggle, pike makes you an unblockable gank ender, turning any round into a number's game. I fucking hate pikers when I am not one myself, they are a huge buzzkill. I didn't think piking would do the player numbers any good.

As for the viability of pikes player numbers are a huge factor, but I think that with 40+ it is already a top notch weapon, especially if you have dedicated melee support. However over the past year and a half many speed ratings have gotten a bump, people got much more agility heavy builds and in general started using faster weapons. I don't think stab stun has scaled that well with the faster meta. I noticed more and more that I would be getting hit very often without being able to block, even on solid stabs and even though I got more wpf. If you want to give longspear/pike a buff, find a way to reduce the severity of stab stun.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 01, 2015, 10:54:17 pm
have been poking around with my +3 long spear for a while, but with the current spam meta and low player numbers it is indeed suicide. Playing on siege is sometimes fun with it though :)

has anyone noticed the ping increase on servers? (EU)
used to be 18-23 with me but now 34-90, did the server switch to another location?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 01, 2015, 11:24:57 pm
I posted a thread into Technical problems about that. It's getting annoying, actually.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 02, 2015, 12:25:27 am
Since patch 0.4.0.0 was "The patch of destiny" and this patch will be changing the weight values of armor (and weapons?)...

can the next patch please be called

0.4.1.0 - The Patch of Density
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Taser on February 02, 2015, 06:38:35 am
Since patch 0.4.0.0 was "The patch of destiny" and this patch will be changing the weight values of armor (and weapons?)...

can the next patch please be called

0.4.1.0 - The Patch of Density

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 02, 2015, 09:18:53 am
Thanks, San!

DTV rewards doubled and max exp cap increased
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on February 02, 2015, 02:22:17 pm
On the topic of crossbows I think Arbalest needs a buff. It's pointless cos it takes the same number of hits to kill someone as the Heavy does which shoots a lot faster.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on February 02, 2015, 03:40:49 pm
Thanks, San!

DTV rewards doubled and max exp cap increased

That's awesome!
Any news on the map rotation for DTV too?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Falka on February 02, 2015, 04:10:07 pm
I stronagły suggest renaming this thread to march patch preview  :wink:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 02, 2015, 06:23:37 pm
That's awesome!
Any news on the map rotation for DTV too?
i spoke to san and teeth about taking out some maps which kill the server population, and san is going to check for new ones to add
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 02, 2015, 06:24:39 pm
I stronagły suggest renaming this thread to march patch preview  :wink:
chadzian tomorrow!

if we aimed for march, it could take till april :(

nah, seriously, it's gonna be feb :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 02, 2015, 09:58:46 pm
Thanks, San!

DTV rewards doubled and max exp cap increased
Yes! time to get my peasent gear out of the closet
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Taser on February 02, 2015, 11:05:19 pm
On the topic of crossbows I think Arbalest needs a buff. It's pointless cos it takes the same number of hits to kill someone as the Heavy does which shoots a lot faster.

I think crpg's sole arbalest user will be very happy with this. I used to love that thing but.. everyone that used to use it just moved to heavy crossbow since there was no point to staying with it besides sentimentality.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 03, 2015, 12:37:07 am
San please incorporate the Heirloom pack for the mod its amazing and alot of people like it and it has no flaws!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 03, 2015, 12:42:45 am
San please incorporate the Heirloom pack for the mod its amazing and alot of people like it and it has no flaws!

Too much gold imho.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 03, 2015, 01:40:31 am
San please incorporate the Heirloom pack for the mod its amazing and alot of people like it and it has no flaws!

It's up to the Item team.

I think crpg's sole arbalest user will be very happy with this. I used to love that thing but.. everyone that used to use it just moved to heavy crossbow since there was no point to staying with it besides sentimentality.

I think crossbow should just be pick up and play for the average person, but still be good for a dedicated build. I think with an accuracy buff it helps both types, along with the body/headshot improvements, with Heavy Crossbow receiving a small accuracy boost, Arbalest receiving a large accuracy boost, and the others obtain something inbetween.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 03, 2015, 01:48:59 am
San please incorporate the Heirloom pack for the mod its amazing and alot of people like it and it has no flaws!
we'd have to make heirloom pack versions of all the new items first, and we simply don't have the capacities for that

maybe there is a way of making the heirloom pack more accessible for the casuls who aren't prowling the forum 24/7, but it will most likely stay an add-on rather than a necessary part of the base mod
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 03, 2015, 01:53:21 am
On the topic of crossbows I think Arbalest needs a buff. It's pointless cos it takes the same number of hits to kill someone as the Heavy does which shoots a lot faster.

to my understanding as a 30+ gens dedicated ranged autist, the core feature the arbalest has which the heavy crossbow lacks is additional accuracy, and it's well worth investing +3 strength, +13 wpf and paying +360 upkeep. the arbalest defeats its purpose if you use it with too little wpf (get around 185 before armor penalties). it is vastly superior to the heavy crossbow when you go for long range headshots with an adequate build.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 03, 2015, 02:04:58 am
Before I went archer (long, long time ago), I was a crossbowman. And I can tell you that arbalest are (or at least were, when people weren't at level 35) extremely deadly on siege, or on large maps with covers (doesn't matter if it's a tree, a ruin, or a shielder), since you could easily kill someone with 1 or two bolts, from far. Now, the average player got 60+ body armor, and landing a headshot is the only way to kill someone quickly. The big downside is the speed of the reload : an heavy crossbow is much more suited for fighting in medium ranges than arbalest (basically, if you're a battle player, you won't find yourself with an arbalest, or it's at your own risks), since if you miss, the guy won't let you the time to relaoad, while it's not always the case with the heavy crossbow. The ranged buff will probably have its effects on crossbows, and I won't be able to charge a guy bearing an arbalest, which is logical after all.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 03, 2015, 08:15:29 am
(click to show/hide)

Not saying I am not enjoying it
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Dionysus on February 03, 2015, 11:14:03 am
cRPG Version 0.286 (http://forum.melee.org/announcements/version-0-286/), and I'm not even kidding. Just put a level cap at level 33 and revert to the old WPF system. Keep the new items and the new balances to weapons.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Akavirius on February 03, 2015, 11:28:46 am
Nobody seems to have talked about it, so, I'll go for it.

What's with the projected balance of thrown weapons?

(click to show/hide)

I'm all about realism, given some balance is possible. and balance is possible, but not this.

But seriously? Throwing daggers are totally unrealistic and ahistorical weapons that should be nerfed to death(1), i'm serious.
Darts (and war darts) are historical weapons, they are very different from those tiny projectiles you throw at dartboards. (search Plumbata)
Javelins will become a peashooter : lots of ammo, low damage (just what darts and war darts should be). Javs are fine as they are now.

(1)I'd lower ammo, or accuracy, and maybe 25-27c damage (not all three obviously)

For ranged in general, for a good nerf, accuracy and ammo should be reduced, not damage. That way the DPS is not reduced, but total theoretical damage is reduced.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 03, 2015, 12:01:38 pm
Nobody seems to have talked about it, so, I'll go for it.

What's with the projected balance of thrown weapons?

(click to show/hide)

I'm all about realism, given some balance is possible. and balance is possible, but not this.

But seriously? Throwing daggers are totally unrealistic and ahistorical weapons that should be nerfed to death(1), i'm serious.
Darts (and war darts) are historical weapons, they are very different from those tiny projectiles you throw at dartboards. (search Plumbata)
Javelins will become a peashooter : lots of ammo, low damage (just what darts and war darts should be). Javs are fine as they are now.

(1)I'd lower ammo, or accuracy, and maybe 25-27c damage (not all three obviously)

For ranged in general, for a good nerf, accuracy and ammo should be reduced, not damage. That way the DPS is not reduced, but total theoretical damage is reduced.

Ugh, realism? Really? Bleh
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 03, 2015, 12:38:19 pm
What would Kremsies and other trolls do if you nerf throwing? And Gravoth calls my build a troll build, complete opposite of all those AGI whores on crack buzzing around...
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 03, 2015, 02:19:13 pm
What would Kremsies and other trolls do if you nerf throwing? And Gravoth calls my build a troll build, complete opposite of all those AGI whores on crack buzzing around...

I dont even mind the throwing, atleast it's more fun to play when krems are actually playing the game and not afk'ing in spawn. So if theres something for them to play, it should stay. It's annoying like any other ranged build, but its not op.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 03, 2015, 07:25:50 pm
Its already tuseday (i think, i dont remember exactly the names in english :oops:), WHY U NO UPDATE
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 03, 2015, 07:28:39 pm
February 2015 is the new December 2010
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 03, 2015, 07:47:22 pm
February 2015 is the new December 2010
Lets not give some ideas, i saw some armors i must own
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 03, 2015, 09:17:28 pm
Finished with the changes set so far. Many are a little different than what's shown in the OP.

I tried to make it so that only 1 crossbow is loaded if you spawn with more than 1. For some reason, I couldn't get it to work right and now only your *second crossbow is loaded while the others aren't (even the one you're equipped with upon spawning). At least it kind of works.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 03, 2015, 10:31:22 pm
Any specific date set for the patch yet?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 03, 2015, 10:36:36 pm
There's a ton of new items that needs to be added. That'll take a few days.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 03, 2015, 10:39:53 pm
Will there be added any new pics to the website


Sorry if i ask much....
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 03, 2015, 11:25:29 pm
Yes, the item team is keeping track of them. Revival items seem set.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Falka on February 04, 2015, 12:19:35 am
Any specific date set for the patch yet?

Yes, december 2010, as always. A chain is only as stronk as its weakest link. And dev team is only as fast as its laziest member....  :wink:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 04, 2015, 07:26:58 am
Finished with the changes set so far. Many are a little different than what's shown in the OP.

I tried to make it so that only 1 crossbow is loaded if you spawn with more than 1. For some reason, I couldn't get it to work right and now only your *second crossbow is loaded while the others aren't (even the one you're equipped with upon spawning). At least it kind of works.

I am glad that people are still pumping out updates for CRPG, but is this really an issue that needs to be patched? I can't remember a single time that some dude dominated by having multiple crossbows loaded at spawn. Even when the regular crossbow was 1 slot.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 04, 2015, 07:40:06 am
All crossbows are gonna be made 1 slot with steel bolts changing to 2 slot. Xbows didn't really *need the change, but it's still easier to manage the ammo and there's less upkeep.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 04, 2015, 07:44:20 am
I still dont fully understand, why are ammo (bolts and arrows) changed to two slots, and bows/xbow +/- 1 slot?
because of balance issues?

-Its not that I am playing archer or crossbowman anymore, I'm just interested :mrgreen:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 04, 2015, 08:29:22 am
Xbows had no growth from the patch and it's fun to change things up sometimes. I think I'll update OP with the newer stats.

Edit: Additions, not going to be too specific with stats since they're still being fine tuned

----
Only 1 xbow loaded upon spawn. If you spawn with more than 1, only the second xbow will have a bolt.
----
Greater focus on performance for autobalance. Extra rewards for winning and getting valour on a x5. Better players are worth more score if you kill them for round 1.
----
Siege: Winning gives a +2 multiplier. Battle: Extra rewards based on score and level. Minor gameplay adjustments.
----
Increased dtv rewards by 2x.
----

Other gameplay changes:

-Melee speed bonus: 2->1.8
-Ranged speed bonus: 1->1.4



Armor
-All armor gains +1 armor unloomed.

Cloth:
+1: 1 armor, 90% weight
+2: 2 armor, 90% weight
+3: 3 armor, 85% weight

Medium:
+1: 2 armor
+2: 3 armor
+3: 4 armor (same as before)

Plate:
+1: 3 armor, 102% weight
+2: 5 armor, 104% weight
+3: 7 armor, 107% weight

Gloves:
-No armor change except for +1 armor to leather gloves
-gloves get their own loom bonuses with adjusted scaling

Difficulty:

Body armor: weight * 0.9 for the end
Head: weight * 5 for the upper end
Hands: weight * 11 for the upper end
Legs: weight * 5 for the upper end

All of these are approximations

Mauls: +2-4 difficulty
Great Lance: 22 difficulty
Jousting Lance: 18 difficulty



Bows/Crossbows:
-All Bows/Crossbows made 1 slot
-Tatar Arrows, Bodkins, and Steel Bolts made 2 slots
-Ammo increase for arrows, decrease for bolts (ex. Steel Bolts made 2 slot, but only +2 ammo)
-Adjusted Arrows, Barbed Arrows, and Bolts to balance hybrids
-Bow missile speed scales up again instead of scaling down, 38 to 42 missile speed
-Small damage increase for weaker bows
-Accuracy increase for bows. Better increase for Arbalest, worse increase for Heavy Crossbow
-(possible)Damage Buffs for first 3 crossbows, speed buffs for first two, slight speed nerf for Crossbow.



Many weapons experienced miscellaneous changes.

-Buffs given to weaker weapons and 1-2 difficulty increase for a few others. Nothing too exciting in that regard. Most of the excitement for melee will come from new weapons and armor.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Corwin on February 04, 2015, 10:30:22 am
Minimum population for a multiplier reduced from 8 to 4

Sad.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Akavirius on February 04, 2015, 12:10:40 pm
About the bows and crossbows tweaks, it seems fine. I didn't fully understand the implications of the slot changes for ranged, i'll see when it goes live.

This means that [Tatar bow+Tatar arrows] will be 3 slots but [bow+barbed arrows] will be 2 slots (as opposed to 2 and 3 respectively now). This will force my Tatar HA to use a 0-slot weapon with her shield.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 04, 2015, 12:15:16 pm
Wait, wasn't the old 1 slot bows meant to be 0 slot after that ?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 04, 2015, 01:25:43 pm
Does anyone feel that bows and crossbows are a bit too expensive for what they offer? Bjord was complaining that I survived 9 PD Longbow headshot and I think he has a point. If damage isn't going to scale with armors (by the looks of it won't), maybe you should make those weapons less expensive. Especially because difference in survivability between ranged and melee is about to become even greater, because everybody who's playing melee will pick lightest heavy armor, while ranged will stay with their light/medium armors.

Many item prices are reflecting roles those items had in the past, when they gave more bang for buck. For example, Military Cleaver is among mid tier one handed weapons and that weapon is arguably the best of its kind.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 04, 2015, 03:06:30 pm
Yes, the item team is keeping track of them. Revival items seem set.
they absolutely are

you like the conjunctive mood, don't you? :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Inglorious on February 04, 2015, 03:22:23 pm
Plate wearing agi people will be losing only 3-5 armor. That's not a lot, but it's a single step down the right path.

I'll come back in a months when the update hits
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 04, 2015, 04:56:41 pm
Arrows and barbed 1 slot and buffed for hybrids, bolts also. I was dumb and realized you could take 0 slot bows and 2 stacks of 2 slot arrows. Limb damage changes ensure damage will be OK.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on February 04, 2015, 05:32:05 pm
Still can't use my trusty normal Crossbow and a proper 2h weapon but instead my xbow becomes slower...

BOOOOOH!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on February 04, 2015, 05:38:37 pm
Difficulty:

Body armor: weight * 0.9 for the end
Head: weight * 5 for the upper end
Hands: weight * 11 for the upper end
Legs: weight * 5 for the upper end

All of these are approximations

Mauls: +2-4 difficulty
Great Lance: 22 difficulty
Jousting Lance: 18 difficulty

All these sound well balanced and thought out. Will stop the heavy gauntlet minmaxing, limit great lance abuse without buffing strength builds too much. Might make the balanced str builds the new meta, but I don't see a problem with that. At least I can block those swings with vsync on :)

Less sure about the archery changes. I'm a terrible archer and I can top EU1 scoreboard at times and I've seen many rounds decided by ranged only. If the buffing is slight it should be fine, but please make sure you can adjust things quickly if archers, xbows and throwers are suddenly too strong as it can kill the mod quite quickly.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: XyNox on February 04, 2015, 05:58:51 pm
I cant help but think that you are in charge of this patch San. Also, I just checked Tydeus last post - Nov 2014. Is Tydeus no longer involved in balancing or even crpg matters alltogether ?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 04, 2015, 06:22:27 pm
it speaks of itself : he wanted to stop playing the game I think. Can't blame him, he was the only on who took the job when no one else had balls to do it, and even if most of the changes he made were impopular, he still tried to do something.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 04, 2015, 06:32:27 pm
I cant help but think that you are in charge of this patch San. Also, I just checked Tydeus last post - Nov 2014. Is Tydeus no longer involved in balancing or even crpg matters alltogether ?
You can blame:

Raylin is a saint, don't blame him for anything.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 04, 2015, 06:34:04 pm
Rico, why do you delay the patch ? :(
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 04, 2015, 06:35:04 pm
Rico, why do you delay the patch ? :(
Do you want patch contents? :twisted:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 04, 2015, 06:36:17 pm
hm, we could have a deal I guess ...  :twisted:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 04, 2015, 07:14:56 pm
I can help add items then senni could help fix all my mistakes :p
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on February 04, 2015, 07:20:31 pm
Wait, can't we all just blame Fips?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 04, 2015, 07:41:04 pm
Super smart uber skilled new update stuff

san I love you :)
you keep it alive!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 04, 2015, 07:52:56 pm
Does anyone feel that bows and crossbows are a bit too expensive for what they offer? Bjord was complaining that I survived 9 PD Longbow headshot and I think he has a point. If damage isn't going to scale with armors (by the looks of it won't), maybe you should make those weapons less expensive. Especially because difference in survivability between ranged and melee is about to become even greater, because everybody who's playing melee will pick lightest heavy armor, while ranged will stay with their light/medium armors.

Many item prices are reflecting roles those items had in the past, when they gave more bang for buck. For example, Military Cleaver is among mid tier one handed weapons and that weapon is arguably the best of its kind.

Damage is going to be increased by a percentage. It could be an extra 7 dmg vs light armor, 4 vs medium armor and 2 vs heavy armor. I think it's easier to balance melee to rely a bit more on strength since IF is arguably the most melee centric skill. IF, buffed 0-2 difficulty shields, etc are some countermeasures should ranged get buffed too much. At most, they'll be at prepatch strength anyways.

Item prices: laziness unless there is a large imbalance or multiple people pointing it out. Upkeep for 2 slot ammo is halved, so I am hesitant to decrease those just yet. 1h prices aren't very consistent since everything is awesome after 6k price. I guess the most expensive roles roughly represents versatility as well as potency. The most expensive are very long and have overall good stats. Weapons like the Long arming sword are out of place. Weaker clones such as the cheaper cavalry swords are also a bitncheap.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 04, 2015, 08:46:42 pm
Arrows are only useful for HA. For foot archers not so much. It's like buffing pitchfork and saying how you buffed polearms.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 04, 2015, 09:14:49 pm
Damage is going to be increased by a percentage. It could be an extra 7 dmg vs light armor, 4 vs medium armor and 2 vs heavy armor. I think it's easier to balance melee to rely a bit more on strength since IF is arguably the most melee centric skill. IF, buffed 0-2 difficulty shields, etc are some countermeasures should ranged get buffed too much. At most, they'll be at prepatch strength anyways.

Item prices: laziness unless there is a large imbalance or multiple people pointing it out. Upkeep for 2 slot ammo is halved, so I am hesitant to decrease those just yet. 1h prices aren't very consistent since everything is awesome after 6k price. I guess the most expensive roles roughly represents versatility as well as potency. The most expensive are very long and have overall good stats. Weapons like the Long arming sword are out of place. Weaker clones such as the cheaper cavalry swords are also a bitncheap.

Archery damage or damage in general? This could mean i actually have to put up my shield when charging archers..
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 05, 2015, 04:11:42 am
Yeah, 1 slot bows are looking to be too confusing. 0 and 1 slot ammo is an alternative that can work and make more sense.

Edit: changed to that, bow slots are generally the same.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 07, 2015, 08:06:26 am
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 07, 2015, 08:42:04 am
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?

Soon™

Longer wait = more features
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 07, 2015, 09:28:38 am
Soon™

Longer wait = more features
I approve
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 07, 2015, 01:25:47 pm
You know, you can release several patches in a month, right ? It's not mandatory to have only 1 patch every 3 months.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 07, 2015, 01:29:11 pm
Proposed another 9 items today.

You know, you can release several patches in a month, right ? It's not mandatory to have only 1 patch every 3 months.
You know, it's mandatory that chadz doesn't waste his time for coding, implementing and uploading things several times a month while he is developing M:BG.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: matt2507 on February 07, 2015, 01:57:44 pm
You know, you can release several patches in a month, right ? It's not mandatory to have only 1 patch every 3 months.

You know you talk too much about something you don't know ?

Çà ne sert a rien de foutre la pression, ça a même l'effet inverse puisque ça pousse a faire des erreurs.
Le patch sortira quand il sera prêt, point.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 07, 2015, 02:13:31 pm
Proposed another 9 items today.
You know, it's mandatory that chadz doesn't waste his time for coding, implementing and uploading things several times a month while he is developing M:BG.
You know,he might be talking about items?:S
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 07, 2015, 02:52:43 pm
We never mean anything in a harsh way. If we reply in playful slang, consider it arts :!:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 07, 2015, 02:53:12 pm
You know,he might be talking about items?:S

Add items without code? Don't try this at home :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Akronus97 on February 07, 2015, 03:24:11 pm
Is it dangerous? :O
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 07, 2015, 03:43:31 pm
fatal even
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 08, 2015, 12:29:53 am
Add Nudge give you the kill if the person you nudge fall down from a high place, so usefull at siege from time to time
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 08, 2015, 01:30:33 am
Add items without code? Don't try this at home :lol:
Its gonna be so hard to copy stuff from a spreadsheet that your team is filling.Could take an entire day to do so...
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 08, 2015, 05:40:20 pm
Its gonna be so hard to copy stuff from a spreadsheet that your team is filling.Could take an entire day to do so...
It's so hard that after Senni and San edit the item spreadsheet, chadz and cmp need another 6-12 hours of coding, uploading, SQL errors, server downtime and whatnot. Result: Bows shooting greatswords, cavalry characters riding on helmets, missing textures, dropping light crossbows makes throwing axes appear... San puts a lot of thought into balance decisions, Senni is experienced at item coding from Nord Invasion, chadz is a stellar coder and cmp is the creator of WSE2. It should be obvious these people are experts, but yet there are issues. It's because the task at hand is hard, not because the people who work on it are bad. I bet you aren't even aware of the issues we currently encounter with the item limit soft-cap. Yes, such a thing exists, you can't add an unlimited number of items and expect the module to stay functional.

If you allocated half of the time you spend reading the forum, asking for new features, saying how easy everything is and complaining about our supposed incompetence to something productive, you could have already created something great. You keep complaining, but please see things the way they are: Close your eyes, and you see what you have done for the mod. Look at cRPG as it is now, with all its aspects and features, and you see what other people have done for the mod.

If you truly cared about this game, you would see opportunities where others see flaws. You would see potential colleagues where others see stupid devs, arrogant scene editors and an unorganized item team. In the end, you don't care, because you lack vision and capacities for teamwork.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 08, 2015, 08:48:44 pm
It's so hard that after Senni and San edit the item spreadsheet, chadz and cmp need another 6-12 hours of coding, uploading, SQL errors, server downtime and whatnot. Result: Bows shooting greatswords, cavalry characters riding on helmets, missing textures, dropping light crossbows makes throwing axes appear... San puts a lot of thought into balance decisions, Senni is experienced at item coding from Nord Invasion, chadz is a stellar coder and cmp is the creator of WSE2. It should be obvious these people are experts, but yet there are issues. It's because the task at hand is hard, not because the people who work on it are bad. I bet you aren't even aware of the issues we currently encounter with the item limit soft-cap. Yes, such a thing exists, you can't add an unlimited number of items and expect the module to stay functional.

If you allocated half of the time you spend reading the forum, asking for new features, saying how easy everything is and complaining about our supposed incompetence to something productive, you could have already created something great. You keep complaining, but please see things the way they are: Close your eyes, and you see what you have done for the mod. Look at cRPG as it is now, with all its aspects and features, and you see what other people have done for the mod.

If you truly cared about this game, you would see opportunities where others see flaws. You would see potential colleagues where others see stupid devs, arrogant scene editors and an unorganized item team. In the end, you don't care, because you lack vision and capacities for teamwork.
Im not complaining about you doing shitty work.I appreciate what you do.Why wouldnt I?
Im complaining about you behaving as if you were smarter than everyone else.Reading you last posts is quite sad if you read between the lines...

Edit:Pretty sure Full Invasion 2 has more items than cRPG.Might wanna try asking them how they got around that cap?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Taser on February 08, 2015, 09:16:10 pm
Result: Bows shooting greatswords, cavalry characters riding on helmets, missing textures, dropping light crossbows makes throwing axes appear...

I dunno what you're talking about... that sounds awesome.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 08, 2015, 09:26:21 pm
Im not complaining about you doing shitty work.I appreciate what you do.Why wouldnt I?
Im complaining about you behaving as if you were smarter than everyone else.Reading you last posts is quite sad if you read between the lines...

Edit:Pretty sure Full Invasion 2 has more items than cRPG.Might wanna try asking them how they got around that cap?

I doubt full invasion has more items, if even half.

Also you complain about how they are behaving when they are the ones providing free updates and patches to a mod, even while having you post shit.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 08, 2015, 09:31:00 pm
I doubt full invasion has more items, if even half.

Also you complain about how they are behaving when they are the ones providing free updates and patches to a mod, even while having you post shit.
Dedicating your free time to a video game doesnt entitle you to be an asshat.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 08, 2015, 09:37:18 pm
Reading you last posts is quite sad if you read between the lines...
You are imagining things. I have a direct attitude and won't hide any messages in my posts.

Im complaining about you behaving as if you were smarter than everyone else.
I am more informed about how cRPG is organized than most players. Should I pretend like I wasn't? I wouldn't be item advisor for long if I did that. Players who just consume this mod have no responsibility. I am not a only player, but also contributor, so I act accordingly. Sorry if me doing my job makes you feel inferior, it's not intended.

You should however revise your strategy. If you want to show me I am not as smart as I think, you shouldn't do that by pretending you'd do a better job if you were in my position. Because if that were the case, you really were in my position and I would try to pick up your skills.

TBH,thats not too special compared to what we have now.
Remarks like this piss me off. Zimke is in a whole other league than everyone in the cRPG item team, especially myself because most of my colleagues are better at texturing and normalmapping than me. Since I cannot reproduce what Zimke is doing, I have no right to criticize him. You cannot even reproduce the modest things the item team is doing, so I get legitimately angry about this blasphemy of yours.

If you didn't judge the artistic talent but the innovative aspect, think before you post. Since you are interested in medieval computer games, there is nothing which could possibly surprise you in terms of items. You have seen it all: Different shapes of swords, axes, maces, ranged weapons, armors, shields. Everything outside this norm is considered fantasy, and M:BG is not going to be a fantasy game.

Edit:Pretty sure Full Invasion 2 has more items than cRPG.Might wanna try asking them how they got around that cap?
The head developer of FI2 is already in the cRPG item team. I appreciate your constructive suggestion, but it turns out I am again behaving as if I am smarter than you.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 08, 2015, 09:58:56 pm
Members of the community would put a ton of time and effort into making new shit for the mod, and then they'd never get any feedback, or any contact with a dev, or have any of their hard work implemented.
That's me and Tak founding the Item Workshop on August 29, 2014

We didn't give up but kept asking on IRC until we were no longer ignored. Since I am not particularly special, I think anyone else could have done the same. Lobbyism in cRPG means bugging people on IRC until they get really annoyed and remember you for being persistent.

fyi: FI2 has no looms or broken items, which makes quite a difference. Please spare us from suggestions like removing either of them, because we already have a solution which "just" needs to be implemented. "Just", as in hours over hours of workload.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 08, 2015, 11:03:01 pm
Dedicating your free time to a video game doesnt entitle you to be an asshat.
So according to your logic, not dedicating your free time to a video game does entitle you to be an asshat? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 08, 2015, 11:23:19 pm
Only on my tablet atm and its a pain to use forums/website with this,so I will respond with something tomorrow...
Till then,you might wanna continue this via PM or,if you want others to keep reading it,create a thread in general off-topic/spam,as I have not interest in going further off-topic than I already did.
So according to your logic, not dedicating your free time to a video game does entitle you to be an asshat? :rolleyes:
I didnt say that.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rico on February 08, 2015, 11:29:28 pm
I have not interest in going further off-topic than I already did.

I am adding some lemon and salt to your tasty tear tequila and spend the rest of the night preparing patch contents. Make sure not to buy any of the new items once the patch is released and look away if others equip them, because you will contradict your ideas :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 08, 2015, 11:31:27 pm
As we all know, every item in crpg has 6 levels, from -2 to +3. What may not be as common knowledge is that each level of an item counts as an entirely different item... it has a different name and different stats, after all. So multiply all of crpg's items by 6, and that is how many items we truly have, as far as the game is concerned. Hence, we are already over the "soft cap."
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 09, 2015, 06:56:22 am
I dunno what you're talking about... that sounds awesome.

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on February 09, 2015, 09:08:15 am
I can feel with the item team here... I haven't done as much as those guys, merely a few events and tournaments but everyone who has ever done something in this community probably knows dem feel.

You're trying your best to get things done while having a normal life and all you'd get is nagging and complaining. It ain't proper criticism when you don't offer solutions or ideas to back it up. It's just complaining when you don't. Especially when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Anyone really surprised that Bagge organized 2 tournaments and went MIA afterwards. It was a pain in the ass for the most part, not to mention more work than anyone here probably expects.

So, maybe just be thankful and patient once in a while when there are actually people around still willing and able to spend time and effort on this dying mod :wink:
Does it really matter if the patch comes this or next week? I don't think so... be happy there even still is a patch on the horizon. Hell, be thankful that the servers are still running!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 09, 2015, 04:58:27 pm
As we all know, every item in crpg has 6 levels, from -2 to +3. What may not be as common knowledge is that each level of an item counts as an entirely different item... it has a different name and different stats, after all. So multiply all of crpg's items by 6, and that is how many items we truly have, as far as the game is concerned. Hence, we are already over the "soft cap."
There is a total of 6553 lines in cRPG´s ItemKinds1.txt and the number at its beginning states that there are 6192 Items in it.
Now,open up that file and use CTRL+F to search for something,Felt Cap for example,replace " " with "_",so search for "Felt_Cap"you will see its there multiple times(note that the ones in the same line are for one type of an item,one showing the name and one the mesh it should use.).
For me that makes it look like there is 6192/6 items in cRPG,which would end up at around 1k,as not every item has a +3 rank iirc.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 09, 2015, 05:11:31 pm
You're joking right? 'If even half'? Anyone else who's played full invasion 2 want to back that statement? I'm not criticising crpg's variety because it has plenty of variety for what it is, but full invasion 2 is full invasion 2.


Now i havent played FI2 in a while, but i do remember quite a varied amount of items, each was very unique but the quantity wasnt amazingly large and very comparable to crpg. But then on crpg you add the layers of loomed items which are all counted as a different item according to code or whatever mumbojumbo. There's a lot of items in crpg, even without looms i think theres more than FI2, unless ofcourse its been patched since i last played it and theyve added more stuff.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 09, 2015, 05:44:01 pm
Just asked a friend to look at FI2´s itemkinds1,it has 7663 items.So yeah,might wanna try asking them-or,sorry,him,but as I understood it,he went back to FI2 and stopped working on cRPG.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 09, 2015, 06:07:06 pm
is the 15/30 2h build (miaodao) still going to be viable after the patch?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 09, 2015, 07:48:02 pm
is the 15/30 2h build (miaodao) still going to be viable after the patch?

Sure hope not!  :twisted:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 09, 2015, 08:54:06 pm
:))))

i sure hope every char will get a respec and an exchange!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 09, 2015, 09:04:11 pm
Always read the small print. Some free heirloom exchanges would be nice.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on February 10, 2015, 01:06:15 am
dtv suggestion: replace viscount with cookie baking grandma.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: woody on February 10, 2015, 01:19:53 pm
Hang on does this mean heavy armour is getting further nerfed in terms of weight wpf etc? I already get a much better k/d with a balanced build naked or light armoured rather than in hvy plate, making heavy armour even more crippling in terms of speed while providing a little more protection seems daft. Its getting to the stage where running round high level with a fast club or staff is a power play option, pity the silly buggers in plate with expensive weapons what they need is a tunic and a stick to be really effective.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 10, 2015, 01:54:36 pm
Heavy armor is meant for strong builds, not your puny sub 30 STR build. When you have no ATH skill, armor weight isn't an issue.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: RD_Professor on February 11, 2015, 02:01:43 am
Patch looks pretty good of now but would be nice to see more changes made to dtv. Already loving the 2x xp modifier, hopefully going to bring a lot more people on the server, and make more armor viable -> less bots (if that is still a thing), but imo some enemies (especially in the newly added later waves) are bloated. So, I'm just going to address the worst examples of this

(click to show/hide)
TLDR:
Fuck everkistus.

Personally I would like to see some of the new waves scrapped, they are sometimes rehashing of older waves, usually just with higher stats. Also it would be nice to see the viscount buffed. At one point on an empty server I managed to 10shot him with stones. I think he's been buffed since them, but he is still weak as fuck.

One last non-dtv note: Please rework the level system so 1-25 isn't attainable in 20 minutes. One of my favorite parts of the game used to be retiring and then watching as my character slowly built up his strength, became able to use more and more weapons over time. Now this happens so quickly I spend more time on the website lvling up after a round than I do actually playing the game. Thats about it, just my opinions about how things should go. Doubt this will actually change anything, but felt I had to input.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on February 11, 2015, 02:39:59 am
Add new dtv wave with heaviest gauntlets + 15 powerstrike. No other weapons. Dress them in the worst matching outfit you can think of.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 11, 2015, 02:41:52 am
At one point on an empty server I managed to 10shot him with stones. I think he's been buffed since them, but he is still weak as fuck.

I am fairly certain that the viscount simply takes 10 (or however many) hits until he dies, regardless of how much damage was dealt to him. 0 powerthrow stones will kill him in as many hits as a 15 PS war axe.

And I agree, the new waves are quite poorly balanced.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 11, 2015, 05:03:25 am
Arrows and barbed 1 slot and buffed for hybrids, bolts also. I was dumb and realized you could take 0 slot bows and 2 stacks of 2 slot arrows. Limb damage changes ensure damage will be OK.

This is great. Even after nerfs, bodkins and steel bolts have been the only viable option unless you are trying to farm as much gold as possible. It's important that crossbow/1H/shield still be viable on some way -  dedicated archery builds are much better than dedicated xbow builds with the higher average level.

As it is now (and will be after this patch, thank god), a crossbower can carry a "full" 1H weapon and buckler or a 0 slot 1H and a good shield. It's a nice balanced jack of all trades build and I'd hate to see it removed from the metagame. You have so many options of playstyle, and you are weaker (but not useless) compared to more focused builds.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 11, 2015, 05:21:30 am
No clue how to edit dtv stuff. You sure you want to risk me screwing something up? :D

At first I had heavy armor as +7 armor and +10% weight, but I lowered it to 7% weight since the efficiency didn't increase that much. The lighter heavy armor ~19 weight will have around the same armor value as current plate, so not much is missed in terms of stats for them. Strength will just look super elite in plate, especially with all of the new armor coming out. I think it's okay for agi builds to be fast, but they shouldn't last long without the appropriate skill to avoid danger.

@Witchcraft

Sorry to disappoint, but I switched arrows, barbed, and bolts to 0 slot instead of messing with bow/xbow slots. It was awkward that Long Bow was the same amount of slots as a short bow. I think it makes it more fun for bows and crossbows to represent your choice of power, rate of fire, and accuracy while ammo affects hybridization.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 11, 2015, 09:40:28 am
1h/shield/xbow..

Just before the big patch, and just after, I was 1h/xbow/shield. Before patch it was doabe to get some damage done, but after patch it was too hard, I needed a better crossbow, better sword and better shield and armour to even survive, and my damage output seemed less, since everyone packed armor and IF more.
indeed, would be nice to see that back :)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 11, 2015, 09:48:20 am
I still rock 1h/shield/crossbow. I barely changed my loadout since the last patch, i think i started wearing some lighter armor but my weapons are all the same(+3 KAS, +3 ARB, +3 Steel Bolts, Steel Buckler). Its probably my favorite class to play so hopefully it'll remain viable after this patch, we will see.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mlekce on February 11, 2015, 03:10:23 pm
This may sound irrelevant but who and why added kuyak and pronoia helmet to byzantine heavy auxiliary instead of archon's armor for example?
Just why? I am talking about DTV. Exp also needs a buff in this mode,it is low.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 11, 2015, 03:45:59 pm
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Grytviken on February 11, 2015, 08:14:34 pm
No need to buff cav, still the strongest class in the game i would say. Other than that everything seems agreeable.

Maybe buff cav by removing the speed bonus arrow damage does to horses, since cav are supposed to be the counter to foot archers. if thats even possible.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 11, 2015, 08:17:05 pm
Maybe buff cav by removing the speed bonus arrow damage does to horses, since cav are supposed to be the counter to foot archers. if thats even possible.

I could be wrong, but didn't they already do this? MW arb+MW steel bolts cant even one hit a Sumpter charging at me head on when I shoot him in the head.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: HappyPhantom on February 11, 2015, 08:39:39 pm
I could be wrong, but didn't they already do this? MW arb+MW steel bolts cant even one hit a Sumpter charging at me head on when I shoot him in the head.

Yep, that's been nerfed. I revert to 1h stab to a charging horse which wrecks it if I get the right angle. Arrows don't do much head on damage anymore.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krex on February 11, 2015, 08:41:22 pm
I could be wrong, but didn't they already do this? MW arb+MW steel bolts cant even one hit a Sumpter charging at me head on when I shoot him in the head.
Try shooting the ass.My courser dies from 3 arrows to the ass.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Grytviken on February 11, 2015, 08:53:23 pm
Also for the sake of realism, can we make weapon stabs unblockable without a shield? It's kind of silly blocking a sword or spear stab to the face by holding your sword horizontally over your crown jewels. 
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 11, 2015, 08:57:34 pm
Also for the sake of realism, can we make weapon stabs unblockable without a shield? It's kind of silly blocking a sword or spear stab to the face by holding your sword horizontally over your crown jewels.


So 2h can be even more sad then it is.... No
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Grytviken on February 11, 2015, 09:15:31 pm

So 2h can be even more sad then it is.... No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8MEtyYbYEY
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 11, 2015, 10:54:22 pm
Also for the sake of realism, can we make weapon stabs unblockable without a shield? It's kind of silly blocking a sword or spear stab to the face by holding your sword horizontally over your crown jewels.

Can you stop shitposting?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: RD_Professor on February 11, 2015, 11:05:31 pm
Add new dtv wave with heaviest gauntlets + 15 powerstrike. No other weapons. Dress them in the worst matching outfit you can think of.
Ahaha I would love to see that wave. Give em 15 IF as well, and that's a challenge I'd love to have. Totally different from all the other glass cannons, would be a welcome change.

No clue how to edit dtv stuff. You sure you want to risk me screwing something up? :D
It's pretty broken already imo, at least if something got screwed up it could be interesting again.

Exp also needs a buff in this mode,it is low.
Rewards are going to be buffed by x2! Hopefully dtv will become more populated as a result
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 12, 2015, 12:01:12 am
Please add lightning buff to dragon spear.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 12, 2015, 04:09:11 pm
Maybe buff cav by removing the speed bonus arrow damage does to horses, since cav are supposed to be the counter to foot archers. if thats even possible.

Archers arent a problem though, while cav is and always has been one of the strongest classes. Keep em as is imo.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 12, 2015, 04:20:36 pm
Keep Jews out of Calradia, imo.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 12, 2015, 04:26:24 pm
Keep Jews out of Calradia, imo.

How do you keep Jews out of anything though?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 12, 2015, 04:55:24 pm
daggers+shields+agi=bulshit

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 12, 2015, 05:10:35 pm
daggers+shields+agi=bulshit

Kick and overhead, goodnight agidaggers.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 12, 2015, 06:28:04 pm
I added something called itp_penalty_with_shield to dagger weapons. I have no idea what it actually does in terms of % dmg/speed loss since so few items have the tag, so I hope it works properly.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 12, 2015, 06:38:00 pm
I added something called itp_penalty_with_shield to dagger weapons. I have no idea what it actually does in terms of % dmg/speed loss since so few items have the tag, so I hope it works properly.

Really? Is it actually needed? Daggers are annoying but they dont need to be nerfed. Again unecessary nerfs to make the mod lean more towards one style of play. It's fun to play dagger + shield but not so pleasant to be on the recieving end, allthough what generally happens is daggerbundle of sticks hits once or twice and then gets oneshot killed.

I mean come on now, i spawned late on round with a longspear, and i was getting charged in spawn by a one, he hit me like 6 times and then i oneshot him with one lucky hit. And this seems to be the majority of fights versus them.

Please dont nerf things on the basis that people think they are annoying, look at the actual stats and performance in game. They can do pretty ok, but they never really stand out over other builds. It's a ranged killer for fucksake, how can people not like that.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: CzlowiekKot on February 12, 2015, 08:03:57 pm
Can you make darts 0 slot again?

I have a char where i used 2 throwing lances + shurikens or darts and now I can't. They are basically the same as shurikens just fly in a diffrent way. Are they really exploitable?(I assume that was the reason to make them 1 slot)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Krax on February 12, 2015, 08:45:34 pm
remove reload penalty to HX it only slows tings down.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 12, 2015, 09:40:18 pm
Weren't darts always 1 slot?

I can't change the horseback reload speed, but the weapons themselves see some buffs to reload speed and damage.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 12, 2015, 10:03:55 pm
Really? Is it actually needed? Daggers are annoying but they dont need to be nerfed. Again unecessary nerfs to make the mod lean more towards one style of play. It's fun to play dagger + shield but not so pleasant to be on the recieving end, allthough what generally happens is daggerbundle of sticks hits once or twice and then gets oneshot killed.

I mean come on now, i spawned late on round with a longspear, and i was getting charged in spawn by a one, he hit me like 6 times and then i oneshot him with one lucky hit. And this seems to be the majority of fights versus them.

Please dont nerf things on the basis that people think they are annoying, look at the actual stats and performance in game. They can do pretty ok, but they never really stand out over other builds. It's a ranged killer for fucksake, how can people not like that.

Then you haven't seen Bumbo_Tones etc, prof daggersticks
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 13, 2015, 08:53:34 am
Dont fuck with dagger please, there are so few off us, why make us leave the class....  :( :(
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Kasigi_Yabu on February 13, 2015, 09:54:40 am
Dont fuck with dagger please, there are so few off us, why make us leave the class....  :( :(

I agree, and I've never found them to be a problem, you can usually ignore them, or kill them yourself, or they kill you like any other enemy. Especially because they all die in one hit. They don't require a nerf
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 13, 2015, 09:57:30 am
I agree, and I've never found them to be a problem, you can usually ignore them, or kill them yourself, or they kill you like any other enemy. Especially because they all die in one hit. They don't require a nerf


And the fact that we are such a low populated class they will never be a bitch or a pain against a wast amount of players.


We might be annoying, but we are few. When we actully do a good round, we might be VERY smug about it.

So Daggers never needed a nerf and will never need one in the near future
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on February 13, 2015, 10:19:29 am
Considering Dagger&Shield a class is already silly in itself.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Finse on February 13, 2015, 10:24:53 am
Considering Dagger&Shield a class is already silly in itself.


Silly indeed, but fun as hell


And we are from time to time faster than Ninjas
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 13, 2015, 01:16:30 pm
Don't see much difference between dagger and shield and let's say, Scottish sword and shield. As for nerf, based on what San has written in here, AGI chars will feel the damage nerf regardless of weapon. Hopefully that will translate into the game properly so the days of 9/36 katana and 12/33 miaodao spammers are finally over.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 13, 2015, 02:22:18 pm
Don't see much difference between dagger and shield and let's say, Scottish sword and shield. As for nerf, based on what San has written in here, AGI chars will feel the damage nerf regardless of weapon. Hopefully that will translate into the game properly so the days of 9/36 katana and 12/33 miaodao spammers are finally over.
super short weapon with high agi that can outrun out play anyone with footwork that always use best attack that is just superfast with often shield that is almost impossible to destroy
In my opinion short weapons are not always worse than long, length of the weapon depends on the role that weapon will play and often short weapon are faster that lon one.
So we have superfast character with great defense and really strong atack, class that cost you nothing to upkeep and is super annoying to fight against.
I agree with Gravoth  that you should not kill that class but make them harder to play or whatever.
takeaway pierce swings from daggers and force them to use attack directions instead of one stab direction.


I rather see daggers as optional attack like nuge than main weapon but that is just all my opinion.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 13, 2015, 03:08:57 pm
shield that is almost impossible to destroy

Blame the shield skill mechanics, which is nonsense if we compare it with every other skill in mod. Does 15 IF give you 100% invulnerability to all attacks? No. Does 15 PS/PD/PT give you ability to one-hit kill anyone? No. Does 15 ATH/RID means you can instantly teleport to desired location? No. Does 15 WM means that you can have infinite wpf, therefore making your attacks impossible to block? No it does not.

Shield skill is the sole example of bad game design. It works in a way, that low amounts suck while high amounts are making it better at exponential rate where at certain point it becomes godlike. Also, because it is connected with secondary attribute AGI, means you cannot be good shielder with a high STR build. Which does not make any sense if you think about it for a moment.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 13, 2015, 04:33:22 pm
Shield skill is also boring. I'd rather tone down the % reduction and give it a secondary effect like a small armor boost from improved defensive skills or better shield bashes (although it would be rather gimmicky).

I used to think shield skill using strength would be OP, but I think intelligent use of nudges can counter full strength shielders. It would still be close to OP, but not quite there imo.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 13, 2015, 04:45:02 pm
Shield skill is also boring. I'd rather tone down the % reduction and give it a secondary effect like a small armor boost from improved defensive skills or better shield bashes (although it would be rather gimmicky).

I used to think shield skill using strength would be OP, but I think intelligent use of nudges can counter full strength shielders. It would still be close to OP, but not quite there imo.
can we have like 3 tiers of shields?
some require agi some strength and some agi and strength
keep shields skill agi based and then work with secondary effects on them

you would be able to create shield calsses difrent form each with difrent perks
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 13, 2015, 04:56:12 pm
Only 1 difficulty requirement fits per item class, otherwise we would have different requirements for weapons. Shields aren't interesting enough to put that amount of work in it.

Shield skill increases forcefield, durability, and speed. That is everything a Shielder wants, but it is boring since the durability increase makes shields that are already durable less appealing due to their low speed stats. More armor would cause more problems though, lol.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 13, 2015, 04:59:07 pm
Then you haven't seen Bumbo_Tones etc, prof daggersticks

Oh yes, bumbo_tones, so scary, always topping scoreboards with 15-0 K/d's, impossible to beat in duels and just invincible on the battle field. Oh wait, every time i see him play he's above average. He used to do really well before rondel got nerfed the first time.

Niche but fun build, not amazingly effective but it does work. It's already been nerfed before, dont kill it off.

super short weapon with high agi that can outrun out play anyone with footwork that always use best attack that is just superfast with often shield that is almost impossible to destroy
In my opinion short weapons are not always worse than long, length of the weapon depends on the role that weapon will play and often short weapon are faster that lon one.
So we have superfast character with great defense and really strong atack, class that cost you nothing to upkeep and is super annoying to fight against.
I agree with Gravoth  that you should not kill that class but make them harder to play or whatever.
takeaway pierce swings from daggers and force them to use attack directions instead of one stab direction.


I rather see daggers as optional attack like nuge than main weapon but that is just all my opinion.

Many classes do sound strong without noting their weaknesses, but going into detail on strengths. You did mention super short weapon though, which is one big downside, a simple jump can get you out of their range. And with that opportunity you can get a spam hit, and that hit is probably going to kill. You could also use the kick, because against a weapon the size of my dick you have to be in their face, and its sooooooooo easy to punish dagger users with a simple kick, and ofcourse follow up swing will kill. About the shield, stop basing their shield, backpeddal and kick, fuck the shield if you can hit their face.

They are already plenty hard enough to play well, you can do okayish most rounds, but just simple mistakes are punished with death.

I repeat, its already been nerfed, dont kill it off. Bumbo is the only one i actually see play it well, and even then its not like its an amazing class that needs to be nerfed. Its an annoying niche class, that does appeal to some.

Unless its blatantly overpowered, dont nerf. If its unplayably weak, buff. Dont start nerfing shit just because some scrubs cant adapt to different playstyles.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on February 15, 2015, 02:26:16 am
Allow facial hair/mustaches for female characters.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 15, 2015, 03:48:55 am
I had an electrical fire at my home a week and a half ago, but I was able to move my PC to the hotel recently so I could continue adding stuff. I added ~50% of the new items yesterday. The item team is also working on optimization. I'm slow at it, but I'd like the next patch to come out ASAP.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Akronus97 on February 15, 2015, 09:55:32 am
Nice to see that you care about the mod
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: _Tamra_ on February 15, 2015, 12:56:25 pm
Don't know if you have fixed this already, but having items with same names really suck when one want to trade them :/

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3899/ib9ua7g6_png.htm

Altho you see which specific item you put up if you check your own trade offer, but still.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 15, 2015, 12:59:54 pm
I had an electrical fire at my home a week and a half ago, but I was able to move my PC to the hotel recently so I could continue adding stuff. I added ~50% of the new items yesterday. The item team is also working on optimization. I'm slow at it, but I'd like the next patch to come out ASAP.

A fire? So sorry to hear that man. Wishing you recover and get back on track with your life soon. Maybe it wasn't even a big fire or anything but it is always rough to deal with stuff like that.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 15, 2015, 06:44:13 pm
launch this patch dammit! Monthly patchs can keep this shit alive.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: StonedSteel on February 15, 2015, 07:21:02 pm
launch this patch dammit! Monthly patchs can keep this shit alive.

i think the damage had been done. you'd have to reset strat, revert a shit ton of tydouche fuck ups ( wpf, 1h stabs\swings, agi, end the 18-27 meta game ), restart strat, and revert this BS high lvl bullshit.

any of that happening in the next patch? nope.

strat is really the only brilliant thing this mod has done, the rest is all minor meager tweaks, most of which shouldnt have be done. the further away it got from being a warband mod, with native mechanics and persistent lvling, to a complexly different "superior" version of warband with better swings and better animations blah blah...u tried "improving" the game so much u fucked with the engine and broke the goddamn game.

idk if monthly patches are a good idea here...every patch seems to make more and more people go...and after the last patch, plenty of us NAers havent playing in months. they need to stop "improving" the game, and man up\ realize they fucked up...and try to fix the damage done by all these "improvements"

plz go back to your roots, i dont want a "better version of warband". i want warband with persistent lvling, and a online campaign. you fucks cant make a better warband, you can make warband more fun by adding strat and lvling.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 15, 2015, 07:40:59 pm
I dunno, I don't think they've really "broken the game". The "18/27 metagame" is only really a thing if you can't block for shit, otherwise any build is still fairly viable. I've always and still always run basically strength builds and I've actually been performing better recently but I bet you would argue thats because "all the good players have quit playing". Reverting everything to how it was pre-Patch of Destiny isn't going to bring more players because we actually have MORE active players right now than before it. We had around 15 on at prime time before, now we are getting like 25-30 players. And I don't see how resetting strat would make it not dead. It would just be the same few people playing except now they've lost everything they own. If new players want to get into strat right now, it would be pretty easy to get on and grab a fief considering half the map is either AFK or owned by 20ish people. But what do I know.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 15, 2015, 08:05:58 pm
Builds are viable, yes. But it sucks when you see a total douche who can't do shit with any other build until he respec to 15/30 Miaodao bullshit build. Half of players on EU servers have high ping (50 and higher) and fighting against them leads to phasing through bodies, shields, blocks etc. Just spam, spam and spam and pray that crappy servers will grant you hits.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 15, 2015, 09:30:59 pm
Builds are viable, yes. But it sucks when you see a total douche who can't do shit with any other build until he respec to 15/30 Miaodao bullshit build. Half of players on EU servers have high ping (50 and higher) and fighting against them leads to phasing through bodies, shields, blocks etc. Just spam, spam and spam and pray that crappy servers will grant you hits.

How is that any different from a ranged player sucking at melee so he keeps only playing ranged builds etc? Some players are just better at certain builds.  Most players i see on eu are around 30-50 ping and that is more than enough to fight anything, blaming ping is a bad excuse if you are below 100. ArtemRUS seems to be doing well with his 160 ping and he's not complaining.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: ArysOakheart on February 15, 2015, 09:51:06 pm
Increase loom bonuses for peasant shit, im getting rekt.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 15, 2015, 10:13:37 pm
yeah why does light armor get even less loom bonus? it should be more :|
adding protection  through a generation is easier with light armor than heavy armor
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 15, 2015, 10:50:33 pm
On a scale of 1 to 10, they said the fire damage was a 1. Only a bit of cleanup is needed, but the minimum time is pretty high because of the terribly cold weather and the fact that it started in the attic and the ceiling had to be torn down to get up there. Overall, it's only a minor setback since nothing was damaged that I was very attached to.

yeah why does light armor get even less loom bonus? it should be more :|
adding protection  through a generation is easier with light armor than heavy armor

All armor gets +1, so it's the same as before.

Increase loom bonuses for peasant shit, im getting rekt.

Sure, but the loom bonus is already good. Just buffed a few of them instead.


I think medium armor is the dominant choice compared to heavy/light armor since medium armor have no weaknesses while stats compensate for everything else. Light armor decreasing weight mostly allows ranged to wear a better variety of armor. Heavy armor with higher defense when loomed helps with having a better armor:weight ratio compared to medium armor. The weight increase helps offset how armor scales between the gear at the transition of the loom gap to plate. It also spices up looms imo, though not everyone will like it.

Many other items were changed to aid hybridization. Hybridization failed to stop people who wanted to play kiting ranged builds when 0 slots were first introduced and buffed, but I think it's still a good idea to keep hybrids strong and instead increase defensive options against those exploitative tactics.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Akronus97 on February 15, 2015, 11:34:01 pm
I think the most important feature would still be increasing difficulty for all armors. That has been probably said so often, just said it once again :)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 16, 2015, 01:08:28 am
How is that any different from a ranged player sucking at melee so he keeps only playing ranged builds etc? Some players are just better at certain builds.  Most players i see on eu are around 30-50 ping and that is more than enough to fight anything, blaming ping is a bad excuse if you are below 100. ArtemRUS seems to be doing well with his 160 ping and he's not complaining.

I'm complaining of them lagging through me and teamhiting me all the time. ArtemRUS is doing fine because he synced his moves with his ping, he actually executes commands before he should based on what he see on his screen because that is the only way he can play. Took him nearly two years to become good at it. That is what most eastern Russians do. For them game isn't instantaneous and they have to adapt to it. But sometimes that can trick you if server decided to have a burp and they'll hit you before you expect it.

Truly good players are good with every build game can offers, maybe not on the same level but that is matter of training nothing more. And you know that very well. Archers who run away from danger after dropping the bow and melee weapon isn't them sucking at melee, it is their mentality as people. Some have no chance in melee but still fight as Hirlok who is playing on EU servers from Paraguay with 300+ ping.

Edit: Do you know players Xpyct and Kurt_Frankenberg? They don't suck, they just like to troll people around them. It is their mentality, the only way they can have fun. Like Krems.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 16, 2015, 02:35:55 am
I've been playing on EU a bunch recently since I'm a no life and stay up till 4am and NA is dead then and even with 150ish ping I can block/chamber on that server. If you can't block with 30-50 ping you're pretty bad.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 16, 2015, 02:46:52 am
How is that any different from a ranged player sucking at melee so he keeps only playing ranged builds etc? Some players are just better at certain builds.  Most players i see on eu are around 30-50 ping and that is more than enough to fight anything, blaming ping is a bad excuse if you are below 100. ArtemRUS seems to be doing well with his 160 ping and he's not complaining.
well
not really 70+ ping is just bad, and i know what i am talking about way to good
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 16, 2015, 08:47:54 pm
well
not really 70+ ping is just bad, and i know what i am talking about way to good

Do you though, do you really?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 16, 2015, 10:45:19 pm
Do you though, do you really?
yep
bad cuz ping 2011
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 17, 2015, 05:32:10 am
Swinging polearms on horseback has been sped up.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Dr_Device on February 17, 2015, 08:50:29 am
plz go back to your roots, i dont want a "better version of warband". i want warband with persistent lvling, and a online campaign. you fucks cant make a better warband, you can make warband more fun by adding strat and lvling.

Native warband is literally retarded.

cRPG may have some stupid changes in it, but, generally speaking, cRPG in a huge step up from native in terms of gameplay.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 17, 2015, 11:28:56 am
Funnily enough, and I cant think why this might be, this is an opinion only held by some players who play cRPG all day instead of Native.

Stranger still, if you were to go and ask any player who played Native all day which had the better gameplay, they'd say Native.

I certainly cannot explain this phenomenon

Its almost as if each person has different preferences on what they find fun in a game or something.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on February 17, 2015, 11:46:54 am
Its almost as if each person has different preferences on what they find fun in a game or something.
Hell no!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on February 17, 2015, 08:41:54 pm
Would it be possible to relook the internal balance of horses as well? Right now all the horses are quite weak which makes Arabian and Courser arguably the best choices for now. The medium horses like the warhorses can't take any more arrows anyway as the armor level is so low. Here's a comparison between a couple of horses:

Arabian Warhorse vs Barded Warhorse
+14 armor, -6 maneuver

Barded vs Large Warhorse
+5 armor, -3 maneuver, -1 speed

Large vs Cataphract
+9 armor, -1 maneuver

There are slight differences in HP between these as well, but nothing major so a direct comparison like that should be fine. For me it looks like the warhorses are terrible compared to the heavier ones like the Cataphract or Charger, while the light horses with high speed or high maneuver are a bit too strong compared to the medium horses. Mamluk again is terrible compared to the Cataphract. Otherwise the idea that there's two different type of horses, fast bump cav and agile melee cav is nice. The high bump damage can really help at times.

PS: Eastern Horse still has the broken model, ever since it was added and reported multiple times.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 17, 2015, 09:31:07 pm
HP is important. With +14 armor and +10 hp, the horse could survive a few more hits when they are receiving -10 damage. Something like 35dmg -> 25dmg, 4 hits to 6 hits with the increased health. That's why I think the Mamluk is still good compared to the cataphract.

1 riding is roughly +1-2 speed and maneuver. You're right though. I preferred the older stats and someone else altered those stats before. I adjusted a few stats so there's a smoother curve.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on February 17, 2015, 10:07:23 pm
Funnily enough, and I cant think why this might be, this is an opinion only held by some players who play cRPG all day instead of Native.

Stranger still, if you were to go and ask any player who played Native all day which had the better gameplay, they'd say Native.

I certainly cannot explain this phenomenon

Played more native than CRPG personally, I prefer CRPG.

Native is very crisp and responsive, but it lacks way too much in comparison.


PS: Eastern Horse still has the broken model, ever since it was added and reported multiple times.

First I've heard, what's wrong with it?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 17, 2015, 10:24:02 pm
A part of the Eastern horse stretches infinitely.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 17, 2015, 10:36:35 pm
Well, if crpg has made one clearly smart decision compared to native, it is that the great long axe (and all polearm axes used by the nords) do not have 2hand secondary modes. Like shit... what were the devs even thinking?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Mr.K. on February 18, 2015, 11:22:59 am
First I've heard, what's wrong with it?

One of the LODs seems to be bugged and sometimes a part of the armor becomes infinite. This screenshot is from 2013 when I among others first reported it: visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jack Avenger on February 18, 2015, 02:08:42 pm
I wish I had a horse like this.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on February 18, 2015, 03:38:34 pm
I wish I had a horse like this.

I wish I had a horse like this
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 18, 2015, 06:06:23 pm
Mostly everything is added. I will just be querying chadz for a patch while some fine tuning is made, such as fixing item glitches.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: the real god emperor on February 18, 2015, 06:14:05 pm
I've played more native than cRPG too, and i prefer the core native mechanics and balance. You're not wrong when you say it's crisp and responsive, that's what i like about it. The fact i still play cRPG from time to time is because i miss the extra customization of gear when i go back to native, and also nudge, combat may be crisp and responsive, and it may be more stable and more balanced, but there's less trolling potential in native when there's no nudge.

Also i still dream of the day when cRPG will see a return to donkey hood. With the lack of success of the M:BG kickstarter i was deprived of a chance to make it my custom armour of choice...

I would prefer native as well. cRPG feels like armored turtles fighting compared to native.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on February 19, 2015, 03:23:35 am
Add some new voice comms like:

'bye'
'good game'
'hmmm'
'I'm drunk'
'blarghh'

etc etc, they don't have to be historically accurate. I actually much preferred that 'joke' voice update...it was so funny.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on February 19, 2015, 03:31:57 am
Add deployable ballistas! For battle and dtv. Why not. But make them more expensive than EVERYTHING else. Make them the most expensive thing in the game with huge possible repairs.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 19, 2015, 04:48:56 am
Any idea if the map team will be fixing the chat glitch on siege?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 19, 2015, 05:10:45 am
Map team isn't active AFAIK.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 am
Rip siege.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on February 19, 2015, 12:07:53 pm
One of the LODs seems to be bugged and sometimes a part of the armor becomes infinite. This screenshot is from 2013 when I among others first reported it:
(click to show/hide)

Weird, I've never seen that bug.

I'll give it a look though.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 19, 2015, 03:33:12 pm
That used to happen with the Eastern Star Scale Armor. Very disturbing especially when it overlaps with sun glare. Believe it or not it almost tore a hole through my eyes once due to the extreme contrast effect it caused.

That aside, Dede fixed the Eastern Star Scale Armor and said it was a problem with vertices. Here is the relevant thread itself for better insight: http://forum.melee.org/crpg-client-beta/that-bugged-armor-eastern-lamellar-robe/msg719154/#msg719154
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on February 19, 2015, 05:47:51 pm
Yeah it's a rigging issue, some vertices weren't rigged for some reason.
EDIT: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gic7eqp2qzyue0m/AAA6kMc3MUqKgSQrMILPuAKHa?dl=0

Fixed?

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 19, 2015, 10:43:09 pm
By the way, do you guys have any changes planned for team balance? If not, I suggest you do. It is beyond annoying. Needless to say clanstacks tend to be strong. But what I have observed so far is even more disturbing. The game insistently balances, say, the overall top 5-6 players to the same team frequently. This happens regardles of whether those people are of the same clan or not. Mostly they also join a clanstack and it all becomes a no go for the other team. Seriously, "balance" sounds a lot like "no balance" most of the time.

I know clanstacking is a controversial issue. So I'll leave that aside. But can't you guys at least create an algorithm that distributes top performers evenly?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 19, 2015, 10:53:09 pm
By the way, do you guys have any changes planned for team balance? If not, I suggest you do. It is beyond annoying. Needless to say clanstacks tend to be strong. But what I have observed so far is even more disturbing. The game insistently balances, say, the overall top 5-6 players to the same team frequently. This happens regardles of whether those people are of the same clan or not. Mostly they also join a clanstack and it all becomes a no go for the other team. Seriously, "balance" sounds a lot like "no balance" most of the time.

I know clanstacking is a controversial issue. So I'll leave that aside. But can't you guys at least create an algorithm that distributes top performers evenly?

I changed the player "worth" formula to be more accurate and influential players give out more points/peasants less when you damage them. As far as how the autobalance actually distributes players, I haven't looked into that but quite frankly I'm just scared to touch any of that, lol.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on February 19, 2015, 10:55:05 pm
I changed the player "worth" formula to be more accurate and influential players give out more points/peasants less when you damage them. As far as how the autobalance actually distributes players, I haven't looked into that but quite frankly I'm just scared to touch any of that, lol.

Looking now :D
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 19, 2015, 10:56:02 pm
Is the player worth formula taken into account in the balancing code, or does changing the player worth simply make people get more points for damaging certain players?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 19, 2015, 11:01:07 pm
As far as how the autobalance actually distributes players, I haven't looked into that but quite frankly I'm just scared to touch any of that, lol.

Can't really blame you :D

Actually, this should have been solved ages ago when the mod was more alive and there were more people helping with patches.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 19, 2015, 11:22:33 pm
Is the player worth formula taken into account in the balancing code, or does changing the player worth simply make people get more points for damaging certain players?

Before, level was given a much heavier weight with a small influence from kd. Your worth also decreases if your team loses. After the patch, players would be given values based on their level, kd, and the score:death ratio with better weights. These values are used in autobalance to distribute players. I performed a small test with several others and it seemed to match well enough.

With player worth based more on score, score needs to be less about how many peasants you can hunt.

Chances are that it'll still be bad if autobalance distribution isn't so great, though.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 19, 2015, 11:35:24 pm
Cool, seems good on paper, hope it works in practice. If you ever need more people to test things, let me know. I live nearby, so I can probably connect pretty easily, unlike when Tydeus tried hosting a test server once.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 20, 2015, 12:17:09 am
Before, level was given a much heavier weight with a small influence from kd. Your worth also decreases if your team loses. After the patch, players would be given values based on their level, kd, and the score:death ratio with better weights. These values are used in autobalance to distribute players. I performed a small test with several others and it seemed to match well enough.

With player worth based more on score, score needs to be less about how many peasants you can hunt.

Chances are that it'll still be bad if autobalance distribution isn't so great, though.
what is my PRIZE!!!!!!
tell me NOW
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 20, 2015, 12:45:54 am
San based on what you wrote here, seems that changes will benefit STR builds. That means more people will respec to STR. Extra added heavy armor will be more popular which will lead to prolonged survival rate. Not that I have problem with that, but most people will pick non cut weapons to be able to quickly dispose of their opponents. Do you plan to release a hotfix that will buff cut weapons after few weaks of testing the new patch?

Horses and shields seem to be affected as well. Shields are mostly fine, although they could use a buff (sideways coverage is pretty poor for most shields). Horses however, seem to be balanced towards agility builds. Most decent horses have quite high horse riding skill requirement. I understand that cav should be "forced" to take less ATH skill and invest in RID skill but current state of the game makes that rather difficult. On EU side, most popular server during the day is Siege server and having cav char on siege is waste of points mostly. Would you consider changing horse stats to those ancient stats where only few selected horses required more than 5 riding skill?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: F i n on February 20, 2015, 01:16:56 am
God damn give us a melee only server!

Or remove archery.

Or limit the ammount of Archers / Team - as in almost every shooter there's limits to being sniper.

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Lichen on February 20, 2015, 01:52:51 am
edit..nevermind
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 20, 2015, 06:21:19 am
Can anything be done to make polls less obtrusive? I would recommend making them at least half the size if they are still gonna appear in the bottom of the screen, but preferably shrink them and throw them up top or something. Heck, we honestly don't need any sort of heads up other than the red chat in the log. More often than not a poll is either a rage/troll poll, and we don't need our game interrupted for that. If someone actually deserves the kick/ban, then the people in the server will expect a poll to be coming and will easily notice the bright red text show up on the kill/chat log.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 20, 2015, 06:34:23 am
It's there, but it will be a pain to test it. Kicking/banning is easier.

Silly question: What do you think of making some 2h usable on horseback with the polearm swing animation even if it looks off? :P 2h that can't be used with shield receive a ~25% raw damage reduction anyways.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 20, 2015, 06:39:28 am
It's there, but it will be a pain to test it. Kicking/banning is easier.

Silly question: What do you think of making some 2h usable on horseback with the polearm swing animation even if it looks off? :P

Fix the fucking hafted blade on horse back first jesus christ! Ive played this mod since like beta and that shit still gets me everytime i see it. If 2Hs looked like that on horseback this game would be more ridiculous then it is now and thats hard.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Man of Steel on February 20, 2015, 06:53:02 am
It's there, but it will be a pain to test it. Kicking/banning is easier.

Silly question: What do you think of making some 2h usable on horseback with the polearm swing animation even if it looks off? :P 2h that can't be used with shield receive a ~25% raw damage reduction anyways.
I like the Idea but it should not be abel for every 2h weapon, for example for the normal Great Sword and the normal Maul
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 20, 2015, 11:24:48 am
What?! NOT MAUL CAV?

it may look stupid and will be ineffective but boy it would be fun
and feel epic

and do some damage

yes
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Molly on February 20, 2015, 11:35:03 am
Doesn't native have it so that sideswings from a maul on horseback do crushthrough?
Realistically it would make sense... but then probably any blunt weapon from horseback at speed would be crushthrough :D
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Grumbs on February 20, 2015, 11:42:09 am
Before the patch goes live is it possible to have a large patch test somewhere? Would suck to get this patch and have issues that can't be patched again for months
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 20, 2015, 02:04:26 pm
Realistically it would make sense... but then probably any blunt weapon from horseback at speed would be crushthrough :D

Glorious times of Morningstar with crushtrough. Dede used to rock it when I started playing the mod and was quite good with it.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 20, 2015, 02:25:40 pm
Maybe for later, but it did look hilarious when I tried with a greatsword. One of the hands don't properly rest on the pommel, but the animation isn't that great for polearms either. A few more polearms may become swingable on horseback though.

@Grumbs

For some reason, my test server no longer shows up on the crpg list. I am worried about autobalance, old knockdown roll tweaks, lag, and new items.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 20, 2015, 04:50:46 pm
For some reason, my test server no longer shows up on the crpg list.

I saw your test server up yesterday or 2 days ago.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 20, 2015, 05:03:40 pm
Oh, then it just doesn't appear on that list for me then. That's good to know.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 20, 2015, 05:12:09 pm
Oh, then it just doesn't appear on that list for me then. That's good to know.

Maybe it has something to do with it not being Official!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 20, 2015, 09:05:56 pm
It's there, but it will be a pain to test it. Kicking/banning is easier.

Silly question: What do you think of making some 2h usable on horseback with the polearm swing animation even if it looks off? :P 2h that can't be used with shield receive a ~25% raw damage reduction anyways.
2h cav best cav!
But what do you mean by pole animation?
You talk about that horible swings of polarms or stabs only?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 20, 2015, 09:54:59 pm
Taking the long hafted blade horseback animation and applying it to more weapons. It won't be very strong, but it'll look cool. 1 hand floats in the air for some of the ~120 length 2h and that looks off, though.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 20, 2015, 11:27:58 pm
Taking the long hafted blade horseback animation and applying it to more weapons. It won't be very strong, but it'll look cool. 1 hand floats in the air for some of the ~120 length 2h and that looks off, though.
go for it

i like that idea, and it will be not strong class no  matter what, that animation is just...
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on February 21, 2015, 01:54:32 am
Edit: I should read all the posts properly  :lol:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Falka on February 21, 2015, 12:08:44 pm
I really don't like the idea of buffing heavy armors. Against low dmg weapons they're already very resisting. WIth 8 PS, 170 wpf and 33 cut dmg (mw italian sword) it takes ages to get down str builds in transitional and heavier armors. Don't think plate armors need additional protection.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 21, 2015, 02:05:06 pm
I really don't like the idea of buffing heavy armors. Against low dmg weapons they're already very resisting. WIth 8 PS, 170 wpf and 33 cut dmg (mw italian sword) it takes ages to get down str builds in transitional and heavier armors. Don't think plate armors need additional protection.

Naa, do buff plate, they should be realistic! visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Sagar on February 21, 2015, 03:09:44 pm
Buff plate, so heavy plated knight can only be taken down with high str opponent with heavy blunt weapon (not with Wooden Stick).
For all other builds and weapons - glance glance glance ..... until you broke your mouse or fingers ....
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 21, 2015, 04:02:57 pm
Blunt weapons will still be effective with medium PS (especially staves and spears, which are incredibly fast compared to pretty much everything else).

Problems with cRPG lie deeper than agi/str balance. Taming athletics will help a bit, but generally biggest issue is the omnipresent melee fighting style which revolved more around circling and spamming attacks than actually picking best timing and direction of the attack. That will never change, but it is way less pronounced in native due to slow movement speed.

Hope that for new game, there will be a mechanism that will fix that in some way.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 21, 2015, 05:46:48 pm
Its almost the end of Feb and no patch i thought we were talking San Feb not chadz.....
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 21, 2015, 05:58:45 pm
Having trouble contacting chadz. Rico is a lot better at that than I am.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Novamere on February 21, 2015, 06:02:35 pm
Having trouble contacting chadz. Rico is a lot better at that than I am.

haha o boy atleast you are trying.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on February 21, 2015, 07:00:59 pm
No doubt it will be released in February 2015, now that we know it is in Rico's capable hands.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Senni__Ti on February 21, 2015, 07:16:38 pm
When it comes to making sure people do something, Rico is your man.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Akronus97 on February 22, 2015, 07:27:02 pm
IT'S COMING!!!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Taser on February 23, 2015, 12:24:44 am
Its here. Time to complain.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Azuma on February 23, 2015, 07:37:22 am
Thanks San.  8-)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on February 24, 2015, 03:51:51 am
someone better explain me how you see that 2h stab usable/ balanced against other animations

worse dmg and worse animation

i dont see that work in curent shape

Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: ArysOakheart on February 24, 2015, 09:57:53 am
We need to incorporate drunk people. I guarantee we are a large portion of the community, and we need more booze applicable entries.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 24, 2015, 11:01:50 am
Quote
Cloth:
+1: 1 armor, 90% weight
+2: 2 armor, 90% weight
+3: 3 armor, 85% weight

Medium:
+1: 2 armor
+2: 3 armor
+3: 4 armor (same as before)

Plate:
+1: 3 armor, 102% weight
+2: 5 armor, 104% weight
+3: 7 armor, 107% weight

So was it decided to not change armor weights based on loom levels for the patch? Or is that something still being voted on/implemented?

I ask this because:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I noticed that while my lightweight body armors remained the same weight, my gloves didn't.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: San on February 25, 2015, 03:48:52 am
% weight reductions ended with borked results. 107% weight was just glitched and 90% weight added 90% weight instead of multiplying by 0.9. Loomed gloves have -0.3 weight so it's intended to be archer gloves. It's 0 weight in the same way Straw Hat is 0 weight.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on February 25, 2015, 05:34:36 am
Loomed gloves have -0.3 weight

Okay, gotcha.

Are all gloves supposed to have 0.3 less weight, or only the leather/strange ones?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Richyy on February 25, 2015, 06:08:51 am
when will all the other bugs will be fixed?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Azuma on February 25, 2015, 07:50:31 am
San, please take a look on my new topic and tell me what you think about it : http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/new-idead-for-archery-(arrows)/msg1117824/#msg1117824

Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: HappyPhantom on February 27, 2015, 05:32:04 am
Archery still seems really underpowered to me.

I'm rolling 21 / 21 with 7 PD and 170 wpf.

Bow and Bodkins on average to 15-20 damage to armoured opponents, Tatar and tatar do 18-20ish on peasants. Headshots do about 100 damage lol. Such a difference. My raw power is usually 48-52ish.

 I haven't played a thrower but, I got 2/3 my health blown away by a shuriken to the chest while my arrow limply flew into the samurai.

I'll try and do some tests later but, just wondering if this is the sort of damage you were expecting San.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: gallonigher on February 27, 2015, 05:35:48 am
When are you gonna fix the helmets?  We've been playing with floating helmets for 2 days now.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Azuma on February 27, 2015, 12:29:57 pm
Archery still seems really underpowered to me.

I'm rolling 21 / 21 with 7 PD and 170 wpf.

Bow and Bodkins on average to 15-20 damage to armoured opponents, Tatar and tatar do 18-20ish on peasants. Headshots do about 100 damage lol. Such a difference. My raw power is usually 48-52ish.

 I haven't played a thrower but, I got 2/3 my health blown away by a shuriken to the chest while my arrow limply flew into the samurai.

I'll try and do some tests later but, just wondering if this is the sort of damage you were expecting San.

The only thing you will get with that comment, is downvotes of haters. Archery is of course underpowered but melee classes (even shielders) QQ after any patch who buff archery. So If there is too many archers OverPowered.. They'll 'probably all quit or worst.. BECOME SHIELDER  :shock: :shock: :shock:
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Algarn on February 28, 2015, 11:38:56 am
The only thing you will get with that comment, is downvotes of haters. Archery is of course underpowered but melee classes (even shielders) QQ after any patch who buff archery. So If there is too many archers OverPowered.. They'll 'probably all quit or worst.. BECOME SHIELDER  :shock: :shock: :shock:

Do you have anything against archers becoming shielder because they think it's a decent class ?
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Azuma on March 03, 2015, 03:47:04 pm
Do you have anything against archers becoming shielder because they think it's a decent class ?

Yes because it is not ! :P


Shielder.. Right click and you are protected for 360° Y and X axes.

Proof :
(click to show/hide)

SO HARD ! BUFF !!
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Leshma on March 03, 2015, 03:50:51 pm
Depends on a shield. Only big round shields offer that kind of protection, rest can be bypassed easily. Sadly, round shields don't go well with my look so I'm forced to deal with inferior shields...
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Rebelyell on March 03, 2015, 06:17:21 pm
well one archer can destroy my 3 h. board shield
so yea I call that bulshit too
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Jona on March 04, 2015, 03:25:04 am
Not sure if this was an intentional change or not, but the 2D/4D polearms now start in 2D mode as opposed to 4D. I can't speak for everyone, but it made much more sense to me to start with higher functionality (4D) and then use the alt mode to switch to the more situational weapon mode. It would be awesome if they could be changed back.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: HappyPhantom on March 04, 2015, 05:05:18 am
well one archer can destroy my 3 h. board shield
so yea I call that bulshit too

Lies.
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: darmaster on February 19, 2016, 12:29:25 am
Nice ;))
Title: Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
Post by: Gryph_Hawkshade on February 19, 2016, 07:41:53 pm
Nice ;))

Previous post was in march of 2015... bad bad bad!