Author Topic: February patch preview, input appreciated  (Read 29690 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Algarn

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1230
  • Infamy: 268
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Mercenaries
  • Game nicks: Algarn, Jorick
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #120 on: January 27, 2015, 12:22:45 am »
0
ETA?

Not gonna respec my Police Officer into Throwing Hammers until I see the change log and patch is live :P

I'd suggest you to max out shield skill, it's going to be a massive arrow shitstorm. Even I hate when there's too much shit flying so you can't even shoot.

Offline brockssn

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 133
  • Infamy: 182
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #121 on: January 27, 2015, 02:33:38 am »
0
I'm worried about all arrows going to 2 slots, I am a huscarlcher. I use broad sword, huscarl, horn bow, and tatar arrows right now. It's a lot of fun and it sounds like you're killing any possible build for me -=[

Because patches may continue to be infrequent, it would be best to get it done without bugs or large negative surprises.


New Items

Check out new items at the workshop: http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/alex%27s-daruvian%27s-and-rico%27s-item-workshop-give-us-feedback-and-join-us!/
Estimated number of new items: 10-20. There's a good chance of many more based on the activity levels for the next few weeks.


Adjusted Items

Francisca
max ammo: 5 -> 6
thrust damage: 32 cut -> 33 cut
+500 gold

Throwing Daggers -> Franciscas are -2 ammo and +1 slots for +6 cut
Franciscass -> Throwing Axes are -2 ammo for +6 cut (but not as significant as going from throwing daggers to franciscas)

Darts
max ammo: 6 -> 7
thrust damage: 21 pierce -> 20 pierce
+300 gold

War Darts
thrust damage: 23 pierce -> 24 pierce
+1000 gold

Javelins
max ammo: 3 -> 5
thrust damage: 32 pierce -> 28 pierce

Throwing Hammer (secondary mode): Knockdown added


Gameplay changes

Rolls: Easier input, tighter window, distance and invincibility toned down
----
Minimum population for a multiplier reduced from 8 to 4
----
Better limb damage for ranged, cav, and melee. Removed minimum threshold of 6 on wpf penalty, now just STR/3 + Ironflesh
**Cav: 0 leg armor -> +50% bonus damage vs. horse's armor value. +30% damage to the neck area for melee and ranged and +30% damage to the head for melee
**Melee: Removed damage penalties against arms
**ranged: 90%->110% damage for frontal body shots, 90%->100% damage for back shots. 105%->120% for head shots (stacked with the built-in multipliers), -15% to the 55-80% range for limbs

----
Horse ranged damage cap removed. The 20% damage penalty is still there.
----
Horse ranged speed = 80% with ranged weapon equipped, 90% if sheathed or melee weapon equipped, 100% when dropping ranged weapons/using all ammo (may need to switch weapons to trigger). 0 ammo properly drops when using it all or switching/sheathing.
----
Horse ranged speed penalty removed for the Donkey.
----
Damage feature enabled with 'b' key.
----
added map: counter_strike
----
Wpf weight threshold changed to benefit low IF: max(6, Str/3 + IF) **And later on changed to just Str/3 + IF**


Pending changes (needs a few more votes to pass):

Armor looms and glove change
(click to show/hide)

Archery/Xbow slot+ammo changes
(click to show/hide)


Questions:
Thoughts on above changes, especially the pending ones?
Bump slash: 50%->75% damage? There hasn't been much input on bump slashes.
Horse ranged extra damage penalty: 20%->0-10%?
Xbow or Bow stat changes needed with the ~20% buff to final damage for head and body shots?
Any other equipment stats out of place?

Offline Algarn

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1230
  • Infamy: 268
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Mercenaries
  • Game nicks: Algarn, Jorick
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #122 on: January 27, 2015, 02:37:56 am »
+2
Horn bow is 0 slot, your shield is 2 slots, arrows will be 2 slots, and your short sword is 0 slot. You'll be fine, and will end up buffed, on damages, ammo, and weight (like almost all archers).

Offline San

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1456
  • Infamy: 143
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
    • View Profile
    • My youtube Brawl videos
  • Faction: Chaos
  • Game nicks: San_of_Chaos
  • IRC nick: San
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2015, 02:46:38 am »
+1
Not really balance related, but some attention on this suggestion would be great:
DTV Rates

Playing DTV sure is less stressful than PVP servers, but there is no reason for the experience gain to be as low as it is now. Some days ago, we had a really good team with ~20 players on Istinar (small map with a lot of action, i.e. fast rounds). Afina stopped the round time from start to finish; I calculated average multipliers. Even on really high waves such as Saracens, multiplier did not exceed x1.8.

Think about new players who aren't very familiar with combat mechanics yet. They join DTV to practice blocking and gather gold their first couple of generations to get a few masterworks and improve their skills. If they are discouraged by low experience rates even with high waves on good maps with strong teammates, they are likely to quit before even entering competitive play on PVP servers.

Edit: With the skill level continuously climbing up (veterans keep getting better), the psychological barriers to enter PVP keep rising. DTV as a haven for new players could compensate it a little and prepare them.
Edit2: Are all people who are editing DTV stuff currently MIA, or have we got anyone?

I think that's a good thing to ask the devs since I'm not sure where rewards are added. I'm not really sure how DTV is handled and I've only seen like Fips editing it. Same with different xp for battle and siege. I think battle should give extra exp based on your points vs level (high points, low level = more xp) and siege give +2 multiplier for every win and possibly disable valour for it since there isn't a good way for points to work on siege. Probably going to ask the devs about that if people think they're decent ideas.

The weight for +3 bodkins should be similar to 2 stacks at 6 weight. Damage will increase a lot on the body and the head, but everywhere else would deal poor damage. Ammo is only going to increase by ~2-4 x2, but it will still be slightly lower than before the revival patch (bodkins set at 27 right now and 33 at MW to increase the amount at +0, 1 more vote is required for that thread to pass). The slot change does allow a side buckler or practice shield, throwing  daggers, or 0 slot 1h. It's neat, but still requires extra skills for it to be useful.

Also about plate, heavy armor is likely to get better in general, so I think the difficulty needs to be raised above 15-16 at the very least. Only heavy gloves will be around the same armor with a bit more weight. Plate gets an extra +3 body armor, +3 head armor, and +6 leg armor for a full heavy set. Gloves, helmets, and boots aren't going to have as high a difficulty as plate armor if they're changed. 85% of 6 weight is 5.1 weight, the equivalent of 1.5 armor. It's similar to +6 armor if the weight was roughly the same, so the surplus is only +0.5, while light gloves will be toned down quite a bit how much armor they give. Because heavy gloves have more weight, agi builds will be sacrificing a lot of wpf to get that extra armor.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:03:08 am by San »

Offline Dupre

  • Supreme Overlord
  • *******
  • Renown: 825
  • Infamy: 149
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: DoV
  • Game nicks: Dupre, Sentri
  • IRC nick: Nashringa
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2015, 03:05:14 am »
+1
I think that's a good thing to ask the devs since I'm not sure where rewards are added. I'm not really sure how DTV is handled and I've only seen like Fips editing it. Same with different xp for battle and siege. I think battle should give extra exp based on your points vs level (high points, low level = more xp) and siege give +2 multiplier for every win and possibly disable valour for it since there isn't a good way for points to work on siege. Probably going to ask the devs about that if people think they're decent ideas.


Please ask the devs about adjusting DTV's exp and gold rate, and maybe add some new stuff like extra exp/gold or valour for most kills or something along those lines. Not sure if stats could be added but that would be cool. Bots could use some adjusting too.... Thank you  :mrgreen:


Steam: ajkretchmer

Offline Rico

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1021
  • Infamy: 158
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Rico, Mila
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #125 on: January 27, 2015, 03:33:39 am »
+2
I think that's a good thing to ask the devs

Please ask the devs

Asking the devs hasn't been that successful apart from
- Thomek being a great sensei
- Nessaj supporting in times of scarcity™ and
- chadz approving the february patch.

I hoped I could reach harald for shop pictures and any1 for DTV, but meh
Streaming cRPG, Supreme Commander and Age of Empires II on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeavenTV

Offline San

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1456
  • Infamy: 143
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
    • View Profile
    • My youtube Brawl videos
  • Faction: Chaos
  • Game nicks: San_of_Chaos
  • IRC nick: San
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2015, 03:39:17 am »
+2
I think I found dtv rewards, but I know nothing of dtv. There seems to be rewards based on time, wave bonus, and some other stuff. I may have the power to make a small change, but this seems a bit complex to a dtv-noob. Can any dtv veterans chime in on how the xp system works, why it's not so great, and the rate of xp? I thought it was the best source for xp.

Offline brockssn

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 133
  • Infamy: 182
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #127 on: January 27, 2015, 03:41:36 am »
+1
Horn bow is 0 slot, your shield is 2 slots, arrows will be 2 slots, and your short sword is 0 slot. You'll be fine, and will end up buffed, on damages, ammo, and weight (like almost all archers).

Sweet thanks

Offline Rico

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1021
  • Infamy: 158
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Rico, Mila
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #128 on: January 27, 2015, 03:42:24 am »
+1
I think I found dtv rewards, but I know nothing of dtv. There seems to be rewards based on time, wave bonus, and some other stuff. I may have the power to make a small change, but this seems a bit complex to a dtv-noob. Can any dtv veterans chime in on how the xp system works and why it's not so great?
you listed most of them:
- time till finish (the shorter the better)
- round bonus (20 rounds in total, the higher you are, the higher the reward all other factors constant)
- number of survivors (many players & everyone alive at roundend = more exp)
- valdemar's HP does not matter, contradicting common belief, if I am not mistaken

just x1.75 all exp and it will be fine
or even x2
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:47:46 am by Panuru »
Streaming cRPG, Supreme Commander and Age of Empires II on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeavenTV

Offline San

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1456
  • Infamy: 143
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
    • View Profile
    • My youtube Brawl videos
  • Faction: Chaos
  • Game nicks: San_of_Chaos
  • IRC nick: San
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2015, 03:52:59 am »
+4
I think I can increase a global multiplier. There is also a cap on how much XP you can gain from 1 round, so I can increase that a bit as well.

Offline Dupre

  • Supreme Overlord
  • *******
  • Renown: 825
  • Infamy: 149
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: DoV
  • Game nicks: Dupre, Sentri
  • IRC nick: Nashringa
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #130 on: January 27, 2015, 04:21:46 am »
+1
Could you increase vlad's HP? Vlad dies in 4-6 hits when there is 1-6 people on the server. It sucks when one cav will pass everyone and end the level :(
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 04:27:51 am by Nashringa »
Steam: ajkretchmer

Offline Jona

  • Balancer
  • *
  • Renown: 1372
  • Infamy: 376
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop
  • OG Agi Whore
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Hounds of Chulainn
  • Game nicks: Jona, Siegafried
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2015, 06:50:59 am »
+3
I know that in a somewhat recent pre-revival-patch patch (which is probably close to 6 months or so ago at this point) that fips made it so that the number of enemies which spawned was determined by the average player level present on the server*. This made level 35-36 players spawn an extra 2-3 or so bots each round (and I think level 30 or 31 was assumed to be the 'average' level, where no additional bots were spawned), with the flawed logic of "higher level player = greater contribution to team" used to justify it. I do not know if players that had a level below 30 spawned any less bots or not. I am not sure if that bit of code was ever removed, but with a brand new player easily being level 34 within no time. I feel like the reason DTV is harder is directly related to this... you can have 20 players on the server, 3/4 of which are brand new, and yet everyone present spawns 4-5 bots each. Especially on later waves, this makes each the game nearly impossible unless you are on an exploitable map with a star-studded team. I'm not saying that DTV should be overtly easy, but nothing scares away newcomers quicker than getting wrecked in the "noob-friendly gamemode." At least simply up the rewards as you were already planning to coincide with the new found difficulty level.

*Before this patch, every player spawned the same number of bots, which would normally be roughly 2 bots per player (the third wave typically has more bots than the others). After the patch, I alone seemed to spawn 5 bots. Prior to that patch, when I tried soloing DTV, I would spawn 2 enemies in the first 2 waves, then 4 on the last.  Afterwards, I would spawn 5-6 in the first waves, then 8 on the last (being level 35). The ratios don't scale up directly, I know, since we never had 10 players against 80 bots (unless that is only because the other 9 players were all low level, you never know), but you could easily tell that it got significantly harder.

(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


"I'll have my lance aimed at Jona's knees and he'll jump up, run up my lance and kill me." -Dalfador

Offline Molly

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1860
  • Infamy: 693
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • For the glorious Khorin...
  • Game nicks: Molly
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #132 on: January 27, 2015, 09:11:51 am »
0
I'd suggest you to max out shield skill, it's going to be a massive arrow shitstorm. Even I hate when there's too much shit flying so you can't even shoot.
Police Officer M von Krems does not need a shield - he is wearing the badge of Law Enforcement!!1!eleven!2!!

Besides, I'm curious how much of a damage boost archery will end up with. Officer M is 30/12 with full IF in Fat Plate and never could tank more than 5-6 arrows, sometimes only 4. So yea, maybe that explains why I think it to be plain stupid to buff archery.
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Algarn

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1230
  • Infamy: 268
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Mercenaries
  • Game nicks: Algarn, Jorick
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #133 on: January 27, 2015, 09:23:08 am »
0
You're way too slow with the plated gear, it makes you an arrow magnet. And as you're slow, you are aimed more often, if I can't damage your body properly, a shot to the head this always more devastating (thanks god). When you know I got 10 PD, there's a problem to seeing people like Dim76 (the russian guy) tanking a shit load of arrows - more than 6, trust me.

However, I know some people will abuse nomad bows again, easy headshots with decent damage and high speed will never fail.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 09:26:25 am by Algarn »

Offline Rebelyell

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1267
  • Infamy: 398
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Knights Templar
  • Game nicks: Templar_Bobby
  • IRC nick: boobby
Re: February patch preview, input appreciated
« Reply #134 on: January 27, 2015, 09:24:18 am »
+1
I think that's a good thing to ask the devs since I'm not sure where rewards are added. I'm not really sure how DTV is handled and I've only seen like Fips editing it. Same with different xp for battle and siege. I think battle should give extra exp based on your points vs level (high points, low level = more xp) and siege give +2 multiplier for every win and possibly disable valour for it since there isn't a good way for points to work on siege. Probably going to ask the devs about that if people think they're decent ideas.



Also about plate, heavy armor is likely to get better in general, so I think the difficulty needs to be raised above 15-16 at the very least.
you really should, all that balance was around lvl 30 chars for very long time now, same goes for New WPF system , it was balanced around lvl 30 chars too
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
You just killed me
Nerf you maybe?