I do believe that there does need to be some kind of balancer, for right now playing strat gives no gold nor xp for your character, and you need gold to buy items to get higher multipliers (to a point, admit it a stick is harder to use then a proper weapon) and you need XP to level your character to play strat properly. Because of this I support the idea of an upkeep system.
However, I think that upkeep does need to be lessened significantly.
Pre-patch it was fine in my opinion. The average user was not a tin can so what exactly was the problem?
Right now new players are dressed in rags and stay that way for a disturbing amount of time. I do not understand why we want so many similar looking characters now that a great deal of combnations are no longer practical due to the new upkeep system. I can sort of understand making arrows more expensive and such so that there is more "variety" in archers as before they pretty much all used bodkins and that was boring (now I am seeing real variety in appreciable numbers), but for melee everyone is quickly shifting towards using the same boring low-end gear after the latest patch... I am not too happy about that.
I don't think so, I think there was a lot of variety in arrows pre-patch too. Kesh used normal Arrows, people used Bodkins, Rayna and some others used Khergit, Qaki used Barbed. I think it's impossible to be a hybrid with archery now, and even some crossbows, because of the dumb slot system. This mod lacks diversity now.
I disagree, upkeep is not only here to punish player or to prevent plate all the time, for me it adds a manage dimension of your equip.
You must choose your equip wisely, depends on the situation, you must manage your gold.
I´m pretty sure that even with upkeep it´s easier to new player, before january patch when you were a peasant you stood as a peasant a long time as you can´t even afford to buy good gear. Also it seems to me that it was harder to level up.
xp gain, it´s good as it is, i mean it´s pretty fast to lvl to 30, it´s hard to go 31 but nobody force you to retire and you play with an achieve build since 30.
If you make it easier then there will be a lost of interest, easy thing become boring faster...
I don't think so, I think there was a lot of variety in arrows pre-patch too. Kesh used normal Arrows, people used Bodkins, Rayna and some others used Khergit, Qaki used Barbed. I think it's impossible to be a hybrid with archery now, and even some crossbows, because of the dumb slot system. This mod lacks diversity now.Impossible to be a hybrid? I disagree completely. Well, you can't be that super overaccurate archer anymore, 2hitting people, with a Danish on your back ready to own people. Yes, you can't be as good in melee anymore as other pure melees. But when you take a strong bow, you can still be that hybrid.
Impossible to be a hybrid? I disagree completely. Well, you can't be that super overaccurate archer anymore, 2hitting people, with a Danish on your back ready to own people. Yes, you can't be as good in melee anymore as other pure melees. But when you take a strong bow, you can still be that hybrid.
The whole point of the devs with the slot system and weaponpoint requirements was to make hybrids less overpowered. And they have done a fenomenal job.
A classic c-rpg would be cool though, without the nerfs, without upkeep etc.
u must be a new player because
in the early days of the mod ( w no upkeeping) u had people wearing black plate full all the day
and everyone riding plated chargers
VERY UNFRIENDLY FOR NEW PERSONS
so... bad idea.
+1 You are completely right Rusty.
Fairly sure he's been playing longer than you. And no, it was not everyone who was wearing plate armor, every wore WHAT THEY LIKED.
Doubling the plate cost would make it totally worthless.
Try using a War Bow or a Long Bow with a polearm or two-hander. FAIL.Ah ignorance at it's highest level. Ever tried using a Horn Bow or Tatar Bow with a polearm or two-hander? WIN.
Doubling the plate cost would make it totally worthless.
Ah ignorance at it's highest level. Ever tried using a Horn Bow or Tatar Bow with a polearm or two-hander? WIN.
I enjoy the changes, It is great that this game is constantly evolving, it keeps things fresh and entertaining. It would worry me more if the game had never changed and was still the same as it was a year ago. I think most of what people complain about is not really a negative change in game mechanics, its more that they have been playing crpg so long that they mistake a game losing its novelty over time with bad development.
I still see plenty of plated chargers roaming around on the NA servers
Really? What NA servers do you play on? Because I rarely EVER see plated chargers these days. I saw a naked person on a plated charger yesterday, and that was the first plated charger I've seen on the NA battle servers in at least a month.
I'd like you to tell someone like Beeper that you need armor to be effective.
Actually, if they want customization back, they should lower drastically all the prices for helmets, boots and gloves. Its just stupid having gloves that are as costly full body armors. They really need to check the stuff's prices and be coherent....
A lot of people are saying that we need upkeep for "balance". In my opinion, balancing on gold is the WORST way to balance.Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.
Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
weak players lobby. :wink:
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.You surely will see the average player using lower priced equipment. But then the players who have tons of money arent affected by this "balance" so the system is a big fail and only new players or poor players (like me) get penalized. I cant earn money with 26k of gear. I only ear money if im at least x4 which happens not very frequently these days since the server likes to switch me for some reason. Lost 30k using those 26k of gear and a horse 1 of 10 rounds...New players wont stay with this system for a long time. It actually discorages them to keep playing, coz they already know that even if they get that stuff those richs guys are using... they wont be able to use it...
Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
edit:Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.
No upkeep and have everyone running in black armor, no thanks.I dont know where you get that "everyone running in black armor". I remember the old days of crpg and not everyone was wearing "black armor". Indeed there were more ppl wearing light/medium than anything... You guys have a great imagination. And anyway, after the wpf penalty the black armor wasnt that good. Much worse when they nerfed the wpf. I actually prefer some guys using black armor than anything else, since that makes them soo slow. In the old days of crpg, you would want that guy with 250 wpf wearing a black armor. I have a milanesse plate armor since the begining and never used it that much... most ppl just wear what looks good and gives an overall good protection/speed. That is not posible now with the upkeep, you are stuck to "key" items, going higher is just not logic.. and that sucks.
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.
Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
edit:Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.
Also, I find that this upkeep system may favor play styles that do not require heavy armor or expensive weapons due to the costs associated. A lean archer will glean low upkeep costs if they do not carry around 3 bodkins and only wear light armor while a polearm/2h/shielder may not have the luxury of decreasing their equipment usage to promote their income.
That was only meant to happen on the best equipment.
Why do people keep repeating that? Where do you have that from?
this upkeep can be very unfair to new players, with autobalance putting clan players together, sometimes I keep x1 for 1 or even 2 hours, ocasionally get a x2, but with that you cannot use any armor and you are forced to use a weapon with no more than 4k gold cost.
It adds more diversityHalf the team runs around naked, the other half wear light to medium armour and one guy is in plated as he has hundreds of thousands saved up.
hmm, i dunno, i like the general idea of upkeep. It does feel a little high, but its manageable. What would be cool if a person overall wealth played into repair costs. This means that players with 1 mil gold pay more for repairs than people with 10k gold. A sort of tax on the rich if you will.Wouldn't that just make wealth useless?
Half the team runs around naked, the other half wear light to medium armour and one guy is in plated as he has hundreds of thousands saved up.I just wanted to post like exactly the same post. Thanks dude.
Upkeep should be eliminated (except for horses as it makes sense, though it should still be far lower) and speed penalties should be raised.
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.
Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
Except of course, vets with piles of gold aren't affected by this. New players that can't afford decent armor get shafted. The personal skill argument would hold water if it were a balanced playing field. Simply put, its not.
Oh shit. I see we've been wrong this WHOLE TIME.
Sorry new players, you can't use good equipment yet because you're not good enough.
Oh and archers who can't use the better arrows, stop being terrible.
Sorry cav, you guys just plain suck.
Oh and all you people crying when a clan comes on and rolls the server for a couple hours? Sorry, they're just that much better than you.
Thankfully I have so much gold I don't have to worry about upkeep because I'm SOOO AWESOME.
Don't worry though, there is hope. All you have to do is retire and sell your heirloom point. That makes you SOOOO AWESOME that you don't need to worry about upkeep again.
Glad we finally figured this out.
Honestly, if anything all of your arguments favor abolishing Banner Balance, which is the worst gameplay mechanic I've ever seen implemented into a multiplayer game.
"Hey lets stack against all the pubs; most of whom are just new players getting used to the game. We're not being complete assholes at all when we do this."
Literally no other game allows you to pull that shit. Quite the contrary actually...I've seen entire clans banned from servers for doing so on other games because of it.
Veteran players with alot of gold are just as much affected by the high upkeep as new players...
Just play as a peasant for some hours if you are new to the game and you will have 10-20k gold.
In the long run you can wear your 30-40k equipment every round without losing money.
It doesn't require much understanding of economy to earn money in this game...
Except of course, vets with piles of gold aren't affected by this. New players that can't afford decent armor get shafted. The personal skill argument would hold water if it were a balanced playing field. Simply put, its not.
Yeah it's a real shame all that gold won't be drained out of the economy some way.. Oh, wait.
No other game is as built for clans as c-RPG.BB should rotate on for a map, off for a map.
c-RPG is designed around Strategus first and foremost, that does seem to be the focal point of the whole thing. Individual people are near useless in Strat and the bulk of Strat mechanics are designed around clans.
If you want to wander around randomly then go play another game, or tough it out in c-RPG. I have absolutely no sympathy for clanless people if they have been playing for longer then a month, or those who specifically avoid clans.
If you don't want to be part of a clan then you need to accept that you are going to have a harder time then most. I also want to point out that with the amount of clans in c-RPG, usually there are several clans hitting a server at once, so it is not one clan against plebs, but more often then not several clans on each side and a few randoms scattered on each team.
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.
EDIT: P.S. To those saying that this system "punishes" new players for not being good, that is ridiculous. There is NOTHING wrong with rewarding skilled players, and that reward does NOT equal "punishment" for less skillful players. Saying it is would be the equivalent to saying that awarding the medal of honor to a soldier who saved the lives of an entire platoon is a punishment for said platoon. Awards/Rewards are not punishments.
I've gotten the valor thing many times and it does help to mitigate the above problem. The problem is, it seems more random than skill based. I've killed 12 people in a round and not gotten and killed 1 guy and got it.
I think the upkeep was good pre patch but now it is even better tbh.
It adds more diversity, challange and fun. It wouldn't be much fun for a low damaging archer with only tincans to shot at, would it?
Now there is an opponent to fight for everyone.
For most classes it is not possible to play with the most expensive equipment every round.
You need to choose different armour and weapons depending on your multiplier... it is not hard at all.
You can also just save up by playing as a peasant for some hours... or by by making good trades at the market.
Later on you can wear your most expensive equipment every round.
Playing as a peasant is pretty fun if you ask me. You have to play smarter to be successful which makes it more challenging.
And you can always pick up good weapons and later just drop them to avoid upkeep.
As if there is not enough grind already. Playing a peasant isn't fun. What's fun is being able to wear your own equipment and play your own style of the game, not being forced into a few specific roles. If someone wants to play a slow moving, slow hitting but indestructible tank, you should be able to. If you want to be super fast ranger like Legolas or something, you should be able to as well.
The game since upkeep has been 100x better than before. Used to everyone was a tincan, now we actually see other viable builds.
We are not labrats...
Yes you are? Beta, anyone?
Yes you are? Beta, anyone?
As a general reply:
Not sure why I'm even repeating that, but there were two options.
- total wipes in frequent intervals,
- upkeep
If you don't see the necessity for either of those, please stay the fuck away from game design.
Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.Just checking, is this why my gear is very rarely breaking on Cephalopopsicle_PGI? Am I doing something right on my strength Pikeman? I was running in full Gothic plate and it still wouldn't break on me for 2 maps (although, I don't like plate so I took it back off). I gained ~30k in <2 hours while in medium armor.
Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
edit:Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.
Can you please list what mechanic is influenced by personal skill? How? Is it My K/D? Large assist number? Damage output vs Damage taken?
if you are strapped for cash sell an hierloom for 200k ish and you will have a steady income to fall back on. When you start a round at x1 go easy with good gear then when you are on a roll strap on the good gear. Upkeep keeps the game fresh IMO. Also if your clan mates are hurting throw them a bone! Thats what friends are for!
Man i can't believe the amount of whine in this thread. What a bunch of sissyboys blaming everything but themselves. :rolleyes:
Come on guys, it's easy to earn money in cRPG. It's also very simple: win.
If you can't be arsed to try and organize your team, get some teamplay out of the game and make a serious effort, then you don't deserve to walk around in top-end gear all the time! Now get over it already.
The upkeep is NOT too high, in fact, it's still too low as i'm running around with my horse, two shields, heralic mail, elite scimitar and my moneypile is still growing steadily.
And this nonesense about upkeep hurting new players is also complete poppycock. I've tutored several new players recently and you earn so much money so fast that within weeks of starting crpg, money ceases to be an issue. Just use your heads when selecting gear. Don't wear what you can't afford. Come on guys, it's not that hard.
if you are strapped for cash sell an hierloom for 200k ish and you will have a steady income to fall back on. When you start a round at x1 go easy with good gear then when you are on a roll strap on the good gear. Upkeep keeps the game fresh IMO. Also if your clan mates are hurting throw them a bone! Thats what friends are for!
I appreciate some of these upkeep debates, but when I log into cRPG, I already see a lot of people using fairly heavy armors and weaponry. If the upkeep was reduced or diminished, we would only see more and more people wearing higher tier gear most of the time, which isn't good and would just further create a divide between old and new school playerbase.
Well my argument isn't to remove it. Just that many items are poorly balanced in it and need a lot more consideration. I'm not saying reduce it, or increase it, but take a second look at a lot of the costs, breakability and upkeep of items.
I think we're missing the point - that is the game (ideally) revolves around the multiplier. Winning rounds rewards multiplier, thereby allowing you more income to use more expensive gear.Wait wait, eat some glucose for your brain, read the post again, think about the game again, your logic etc etc and come back....
I appreciate some of these upkeep debates, but when I log into cRPG, I already see a lot of people using fairly heavy armors and weaponry. If the upkeep was reduced or diminished, we would only see more and more people wearing higher tier gear most of the time, which isn't good and would just further create a divide between old and new school playerbase.
Well I agree with you there, and with the poster after me, talking about the discrepancy with builds & equipment. It isn't hard to see that a 2H build is easily the most cost effective in the game right now, giving pretty great power at a bargain price. Once you start adding in secondary weapons; spears, shields, arrows, horses, etc... it becomes entirely uneconomical, we're agreed on that.
not so true. you must choose between higher tier armor and only one weapon, or medium tier armor, a primary weapon and a backup weapon.
Well I didn't really go into that part of it, but I do agree with you, just not on the solution so no need to be a dick. The fact is that the upkeep system is solid (I agree costs need to be changed on different items for different builds to make it more uniform) What isn't solid, is that there are people that are not beholden to the system because of their inheritance. Axe their wealth, not the whole system. Don't agree with you about the plate, but not going to argue with a boss of your likes.
See the flaw in your logic? Throwing out the only money sink will make the poor richer, but it just makes the rich that much richer and doesn't change much of anything. Fix don't nix..
I think it's still true if you take a step back and look at it in relation to other classes. 2H Infantry is the most cost effective build.
the problem with people always in full plate armor is most of them are in a clan , which banner balance reward them with easy multi , due to teamspeak witchcraft and good players in general in their crutch armor , its very easy to stay in full plate all the time with 5x by milking the banner balance ,
its funny how its NEVER discussed but in the end its the worst balance possible
i made a thread about banner balance but seems leechers feels good to just put up the banner needed and enjoy the farm.
Shame on me for wanting to be on the same team as my friends :rolleyes:
Rolling with your clan map after map after map isn't exactly fair for people who aren't in clans.
Just sayin'
Wait wait, eat some glucose for your brain, read the post again, think about the game again, your logic etc etc and come back....
If any, the upkeep makes a bigger gap between new players and old players.
Let me tell you some things. First, im one of those "old players" you talk about. Just to clarify my point.
Second, let me tell you that only noobs and very bad players are afraid of guys wearing plate armor. Oh fuck man, i wasnt even afraid of them when there weerent limits and i was level 35 and those guys were 45 ....In the old crpg days plate armor was a problem yes. You actually had no wpf limit, no wpf penalty nothing, plate was just advantages. But that is not the case anymore, now, a plate user has a great wpf and speed run penaly that makes him .....lets say "not that good". So yes, in the old crpg, a guy wit 250 wpf and black armor was a problem, surely. But nowadays, the plate armor its just bad, the Wpf we got these days wont go over 170 in most cases (most ppl will stay at 150 or so) so the penalty you get for plate armor doesnt compensate.
Third. think before you talk, since most "old players" actually have tons of money and will have even more money when strategus is finally released so they actually arent affected by the upkeep.. while those new players will have to eat it or sell a heirloom...Understand why your logic is completly flawed?....
Now, I've never played archer but here is what I've heard. Arrow costs have raised drastically in the last few patches. This is good, as most archer units wear light armor, and tend to stack 3 stacks of arrows on their build. Therefore, their total cost should approach that of a tincan. If you don't want to be paying tincan prices, diversify. Go for 1 stack of arrows and a sidearm, and pick up arrows on the ground as you go. If you want the liberty of having enough arrows without needing to scrounge, be prepared to pay for it.
There's a lot of people who don't need to manage their gold. I have a dumptruck full of gold. I could wear plate all day every day if I wanted to and there are a lot more people that can also. I also thought this was a game about hitting people with swords, not Medieval Accountant.
There is one big difference between our current version and the pre-January version and you have to think of this from a new player's perspective. Pre-January you'll die a lot and get gold kind of slowly. But, when you buy an item, you have it and can always use it to it's full ability. It won't wear down or break. With the current version, you save up your money and buy that cool new whatever you wanted. But then, oh shit, you have to pay upkeep on it that you can't afford and you eventually can't use it anymore. As an experienced player, you know what items are worth it and how and when to spend your money. New players, not so much.
I also think that XP gain is WAY too slow. Nowadays it's a grind. With the old xp bonus, the benefit of being a high gen was the ability to try out new builds relatively quickly. There was a lot more "play" involved than there is now. With the current system, if you respec to try out a new build you then have to level it back up to 30 to REALLY try the build out. That takes a stupid amount of time.
Since a lot of people think upkeep is "SOOOO AWESOME" I came up with another idea for it awhile ago. A sliding scale of upkeep. To do this, all upkeep costs would be dropped dramatically. However, the higher "tier" of equipment you use would increase the chance of breakage. If you do the math right, upkeep for high-end items would be about the same, but dramatically less for low and mid-tier gear. It's much friendlier to newer players and then everyone can have their precious upkeep.
I still think that upkeep doesn't do much other than lessen the amount of fun. People say they don't want to go back to the horrible days of everyone and their mother on a plated charger wearing black plate, but as everyone who knows who played back then...it wasn't like that at all. Also, the nerfs to things like heavy armor and cav would make a situation like that not bad at all anyway.
A lot of people play this for Strategus anyway. So, why can't we make the regular game more fun as we level up our characters for Strategus?
From what I understand, and I'd like to start by stating I did not read 9 pages of posts, repair costs have been raised to reduce inflation. The same way any national economy works. chadz probably looks at the market, sees what the average prices from looms are and adjusts so it does not get to insane. This is sound logic, as it stops long term players from making 500k+ for a loom point, and keeps looms accessible with a week's worth of regular playtime.
I do agree that some item costs need to be rebalanced. Destriers are too expensive -- on native they are a 50/50 choice for cav users depending on playstyle: More hits or more speed. I believe that choice should be similar in cRPG.
Now, I've never played archer but here is what I've heard. Arrow costs have raised drastically in the last few patches. This is good, as most archer units wear light armor, and tend to stack 3 stacks of arrows on their build. Therefore, their total cost should approach that of a tincan. If you don't want to be paying tincan prices, diversify. Go for 1 stack of arrows and a sidearm, and pick up arrows on the ground as you go. If you want the liberty of having enough arrows without needing to scrounge, be prepared to pay for it.
Can ppl just stop to whine?
Stop being selfish, try to think in a general view, for interest of everybody. Seriously there is too much thread like this one, and there are all the same : USELESS.
do you realy believe that your endless thread will make chadz change is mind?
From what I understand, and I'd like to start by stating I did not read 9 pages of posts, repair costs have been raised to reduce inflation. The same way any national economy works. chadz probably looks at the market, sees what the average prices from looms are and adjusts so it does not get to insane. This is sound logic, as it stops long term players from making 500k+ for a loom point, and keeps looms accessible with a week's worth of regular playtime.
I do agree that some item costs need to be rebalanced. Destriers are too expensive -- on native they are a 50/50 choice for cav users depending on playstyle: More hits or more speed. I believe that choice should be similar in cRPG.
Now, I've never played archer but here is what I've heard. Arrow costs have raised drastically in the last few patches. This is good, as most archer units wear light armor, and tend to stack 3 stacks of arrows on their build. Therefore, their total cost should approach that of a tincan. If you don't want to be paying tincan prices, diversify. Go for 1 stack of arrows and a sidearm, and pick up arrows on the ground as you go. If you want the liberty of having enough arrows without needing to scrounge, be prepared to pay for it.
But what if I don't want to play with a sidearm? What if I want to be a pure archer? Why is the game arbitrarily pigeonholing me into a role that I don't want to be in? This is atrocious game design.
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you're shitting all over your new players with this system in a really bad wayAgree with this
Longbows (designed to penetrate plate armour)They weren't and they also fail(ed) to penetrate plate armor at anything beyond point blank range and were slowed down and blunted enough to be stopped by the padded armor underneath plate. Do more research if you're going to try and cite realism.
I do archery in real life and lemme tell you, my Hungarian riding bow will penetrate chain. A longbow would come out the other side...I do as well as bow hunting is my obsession. Chain yes because there's damn holes in the metal rings. lol 2-4 shots to kill someone in mail armor seems a good game balance considering the nature of shooting a gun at someone with a knife. Remember the operative word: GAME balance.
Finally, the two-hand sword is complete bullshit. A real two-hander is a massive, heavy weapon that swings SLOWLY!False. You are a victim of popular fantasy culture brainwashing. It's ok, it's a common epidemic.
Oh Gorath why do you bother, I quit trying to explain IRL weapons and armor to that bunch of wankers :("What, you mean swords were light and armor was not crippling?!!?" - Average person
Oh Gorath why do you bother, I quit trying to explain IRL weapons and armor to that bunch of wankers :(
I still think that upkeep doesn't do much other than lessen the amount of fun. People say they don't want to go back to the horrible days of everyone and their mother on a plated charger wearing black plate, but as everyone who knows who played back then...it wasn't like that at all. Also, the nerfs to things like heavy armor and cav would make a situation like that not bad at all anyway.
Finally someone else saying that. I'm relieved :)
I think the reason why like everyone is subject to this collective illusion that black armor and plated chargers where rampant pre-january is because a big part of pre-january players quit the game. Nearly no one is objective on this because if you still are here now, you either joined after this patch, and be taught that tincan days were absolutely horrible or you like the upkeep and you keep on telling everyone "everybody was wearing plate back then" all day long, without any fact backing this up.
Sorry devs, but upkeep is too harsh atm. Needs to be 1/3 less and no upkeep on arrows or bolts (they are consumables! Just make us buy new ones when we run out at a realistic price point?). As a new player it's already a challenge (but fun) to save up and get better gear over time. But after the new patch, the upkeep is soooo harsh that I turn upkeep off and run around with the cheapest but still broken gear every fight just to be able to save any money at all. So not only am I a noob trying to learn, level and gear up, but I'm also doing it with substandard and broken gear. I get it, try and tax (upkeep) players with good gear and large piggy banks, but hey dev team, you're shitting all over your new players with this system in a really bad way. So please consider my comments above.
Also, missile damage in C-RPG is ridiculously low. Two direct hits on someone in light-med armour should be lights out. Longbows (designed to penetrate plate armour) should be able to 2-shot plate. Instead, gotta put 4-6 solid shots into any armour target with bows to bring the enemy down. I do archery in real life and lemme tell you, my Hungarian riding bow will penetrate chain. A longbow would come out the other side... You could offset the amount of damage increase to make the bows more realistic by limiting the number of arrows carried by type and also by their cost. If each arrow cost (for example) 20 gold, then they would be more careful about shooting, and could carry only so many of them and they could still deal a realistic amount of damage. So please consider removing upkeep for arrows, and simply make a quiver cost X gold for each type. I think this is a simple solution to all the arrow-related problems!
Finally, the two-hand sword is complete bullshit. A real two-hander is a massive, heavy weapon that swings SLOWLY! I've seen them and they are heavy and slow... I've seen enough posts in the forums to know that the community knows it's an issue - so please fix it. Whatever your personal biases aside, we all know it's wrong and overpowered.
There' my two-cents worth... There's lots to love in C-RPG. I'll be playing it for a long time for certain as it's a wonderful piece of work. Please try and include what I discussed, I think it will make your community much happier and cause lots more people to discover and enjoy the Mod. :)
I see you are new here so I ll explay in the old days wheen here is no unkeep and a lvl 44 black plate can take down 10 peple just looking at them there are real archers doing 1 shoots across the map whit they long bows , BUT . for some reazon archery get uber mega ultra nerf x2 and now is useles . So I recomend you to get a strong bow and spam as hell .
It really wasn't that bad :shock:
No, it really was pretty terrible. However the way it was handled got fumbled.
The only reason it was that "bad" as ppl call it, were because of the stacking of WPF... it was pretty normal to be lvl 42+ back in pre-january patch
Imo now armor and horses (expect tank horses because no one uses them thus it's hard to tell) would be balanced even without upkeep. We are limited in levels so heavily armored people are slow. Before January, we had helicopter tincans because those guys were level 40 and had like 300 wpf. Now with wpf bonus removed and level cap, armor choice is a matter of tradeoff, even without any upkeep.
Upkeep was overkill and didn't adressed any issue by itself. Level cap and retirement massive nerf (heirlooms nerf, wpf bonus removed, xp bonus lowered...) were enough to make all types of armor attractive. Changes on riding skill requirement where weird and fucked things up as nearly every cav can ride a PC without gimping themselves now. If horse requirements and agi per riding skill were returned to prepatch values, we could safely remove upkeep altogether as a PC build would mean 30 agility again.
Bob, given this is my first post, I find this encouraging... do you call everyone in the forums a wanker? I do appreciate Gorath explaining and citing references. It's also alot more polite. :)
Don't worry though. No hard feelings. :wink:
It must have been pretty bad from what Im seeing on the forums... so things are at least much better. Yeah, I started as an archer and am hating it - almost to 30 now so I can retire and choose something better. :( Strong bow is helping alot - thanks! :)
Good players adapt, weak players lobby. :wink:
Man i can't believe the amount of whine in this thread. What a bunch of sissyboys blaming everything but themselves. :rolleyes:
Come on guys, it's easy to earn money in cRPG. It's also very simple: win.
If you can't be arsed to try and organize your team, get some teamplay out of the game and make a serious effort, then you don't deserve to walk around in top-end gear all the time! Now get over it already.
The upkeep is NOT too high, in fact, it's still too low as i'm running around with my horse, two shields, heralic mail, elite scimitar and my moneypile is still growing steadily.
And this nonesense about upkeep hurting new players is also complete poppycock. I've tutored several new players recently and you earn so much money so fast that within weeks of starting crpg, money ceases to be an issue. Just use your heads when selecting gear. Don't wear what you can't afford. Come on guys, it's not that hard.
It wasnt really, discussed it with my friend who I introduced to cRPG a year ago, there was more heavy armor but it wasnt an endless wave of shinning (or not so shinning) plate armor that would mow down everyone.
The problem before was that WPF stacked on retirement. So people like Balbaroth/Hippy with a scimi would hit you before the actual animation hit you.
Now if someone REALLY has a lot of time on their hands(kesh) we could probably see this happen again soon though it would not be as wide spread as before hence it take longer for chadz to correct it.
I will say this though. This game is a ton better than it used to be when there was WPF stacking. My god...
Changes on riding skill requirement where weird and fucked things up as nearly every cav can ride a PC without gimping themselves now. If horse requirements and agi per riding skill were returned to prepatch values, we could safely remove upkeep altogether as a PC build would mean 30 agility again.I think players are still pretty gimped once they get enough riding skill for the plated charger. They can only get a max 6 or 7 PS or IF (one 6 the other 7 according to the character planner and that's with skill conversions). Or if they put points in other things like athletics or weaponmaster that's even less for IF or PS.
Of course not everyone was having heavy armor. Not yet. But every day some people got to the "endgame" stage. More and more people were leaving the game because it was just boring the shit out of most people. Grind grind grind, buy armor, grind grind grind, buy weapon, etc etc. To be a tincan it didn't matter if you were good or had skills or wit or whatever. You just had to play for 1000 hours. Woah, great goal there, really.
I can assure you, without upkeep, cRPG would have been dead by now. Running around as an unstoppable tincan sounds like fun. Until you are forced to do it to keep up with the others.
Eh...this has changed how? Now to buy stuff you just have to grind in weaker gear even harder than before. People now just sell loom points on the market to make enough gold to use tin can armour. Either that or they run around in peasant gear. Upkeep hasn't changed a damn thing. The reason people came or stayed was because the other changes balanced it a lot more. Upkeep is nothing to do with that.
Hell in my opinion the only reason loads more people aren't raging at the moment is because you releasing strategus has kept a lot of people interested. If it wasn't for that then you'd probably have 10x more complaining on your hands.
Not everyone was Tincan in those days, and not everybody wanted to be. There where A LOT of people who were high enough levels, had enough money, but enjoyed running around in medium quality gear. The problem was that the people in heavy armour were invincible as there were few penalties and the armour bonus was a lot. Now the trade off is far less and there's smaller reason to go heavy armour as it isn't instant win any more. Again, upkeep has nothing to do with any of this. You introduced upkeep at the same time as introducing a hell of a lot of other balancing. Now with even more patches after wards, upkeep is becoming redundant as a balancing tool now that the classes are becoming more even and the top tier expensive gear isn't as good as it was.
I'm not saying remove upkeep, it's a good idea. But reduce it drastically. Your reasons for introducing it were to balance. The classes are balanced largely in other ways now. Sure they still need some tweaking, but otherwise they are converging a lot more now. By all means keep upkeep, it adds an interesting aspect, but reduce it by a lot.
Crpg isn't going to get any bigger now, unless strategus picks up the slack, because new players get so screwed over atm. As does a lot of people.
Wrong, i would not play without upkeep.
THis for me. I think upkeep is a good idea if you make money when in light gear, nearly no money in medium, and lose money in heavy. This way the "best" items are more rare and special.
Even in Native, you have to "grind" wins in order for your money budget to increase so you can use the better gear. When compared to Native, making a knight in c-RPG is substantially easier.
Yes but chadz said upkeep was to take away grind. It seems to me that you simply have to grind more now.
Yes but chadz said upkeep was to take away grind. It seems to me that you simply have to grind more now than you ever did before upkeep.
I just think we don't have much variation now, people wear very similar things all the time. It's quite boring.
Wrong, i would not play without upkeep.
similar? i see from padded armor to plate armor, not to mention great weapon diversity as people wear different armor so there is no ultimate weapon and all weapon classes are viable.Sure, they were padded armor because they have no gold - or they are archers - or have an agi built and want to be fast - or just for the style!
Grind grind grind, buy armor, grind grind grind, buy weapon, etc etc. To be a tincan it didn't matter if you were good or had skills or wit or whatever. You just had to play for 1000 hours. Woah, great goal there, really.
Since so many players seem to hate plate wearers and other high tier stuff how about increase the prices on all the high tier armor and weaps and thus the upkeep would increase as well. At the same time keep the prices the same for mid and low tier stuff and also lower those items break chances a significant amount (maybe 3 or 4 times less likely to break). Everybody happy? Probably not but it's the best I can think of.
we still need heavy tanks. and heavy tanks will still get surrounded and killed while medium/light tanks with decent athletics, will not get surrounded and live. heavy tanks just trade invaluable running speed and profiency for passive absorption.
i could run in plate for a long time with my actual bank. so really a lot of people could do. but i really don't feel comfortable fighting with that massive plate weight. i don't see many people in plate and not because people can't afford it. simply because there is people that like to walk slow but sustain more hits and people that enjoy to fight on the flanks and enjoy a better speed for footwork stuff.
edit:
and oh.. we see a lot of 1h blunt and pierce, 2h blunt, polearms pierce around.. so heavy armor is not that big advantage.
Currently, since there are so many town maps rolling on EU1 success formula is:
wear plate + swing poleaxe = profit
Shielders should have the upper hand in close quarters. Guess what, they don't. Also cut damage is crap against plate.
You think I'm wrong? Look around yourself, everyone is either stabbing with long spear or swinging with poleaxe. Some 1H, some 2H and those unavoidable morons who think they are playing medieval CS (they should be taken out of equation since they will play medieval CS no matter what happens). Also on marketplace everyone is exchanging for poleaxes.
we still need heavy tanks. and heavy tanks will still get surrounded and killed while medium/light tanks with decent athletics, will not get surrounded and live. heavy tanks just trade invaluable running speed and profiency for passive absorption.I agree with you. Some players have trouble either playing well...choosing a characters stats intelligently and or using the correct weapon(s) for the job. Also many of them don't fully understand the tradeoffs of things and automatically think more expensive = auto win mode with no downsides. Blunt and/or pierce weaps are available in 1h, 2h, pole, crossbow, longbow and throwing. I guess that's still not enough for some though. There should be some sort of noob training or something. Like any gen 1 character has to play and complete a training course first before they can play multiplayer.
i could run in plate for a long time with my actual bank. so really a lot of people could do. but i really don't feel comfortable fighting with that massive plate weight. i don't see many people in plate and not because people can't afford it. simply because there is people that like to walk slow but sustain more hits and people that enjoy to fight on the flanks and enjoy a better speed for footwork stuff.
edit:
and oh.. we see a lot of 1h blunt and pierce, 2h blunt, polearms pierce around.. so heavy armor is not that big advantage.
I agree with you. Some players have trouble either playing well...choosing a characters stats intelligently and or using the correct weapon(s) for the job. Also many of them don't fully understand the tradeoffs of things and automatically think more expensive = auto win mode with no downsides. Blunt and/or pierce weaps are available in 1h, 2h, pole, crossbow, longbow and throwing. I guess that's still not enough for some though. There should be some sort of noob training or something. Like any gen 1 character has to play and complete a training course first before they can play multiplayer.
Sorry but everything you write and wrote is real bullshit and far away from realism...Eh all I'm saying is some way to help noobs. It gets old hearing the same dumb complaints over and over.
How would you like to manage it? First gen is only allowed to play on duel server? Till they get enough kills... to play on normal servers then?
There is perhaps a training, called Factions. Players can join one and then be trained by good people.
Your suggestions dont make any sense!
Just for the information, pre january you could play crpg in SP. The Equip, weapons and builds could be used there...
this was removed, I dont know why.
Currently, since there are so many town maps rolling on EU1 success formula is:
wear plate + swing poleaxe = profit
Shielders should have the upper hand in close quarters. Guess what, they don't. Also cut damage is crap against plate.
You think I'm wrong? Look around yourself, everyone is either stabbing with long spear or swinging with poleaxe. Some 1H, some 2H and those unavoidable morons who think they are playing medieval CS (they should be taken out of equation since they will play medieval CS no matter what happens). Also on marketplace everyone is exchanging for poleaxes.
well now is:
grind grind grind retire armor grind grind grind retire armor grind grind grind retire armor grind grind grind retire weapon grind grind grind retire weapon grind grind grind retire weapon grind grind grind retire secondary weapon grind grind grind retire secondary weapon grind grind grind retire secondary weapon grind grind grind retire gauntlets grind grind grind retire gauntlets grind grind grind retire gauntlets.
as who grinded plate to keep up with tincans, now grind to keep up with +3 gear.
so instead grinding 1000 hours, became grinding 100.000 hours.
no matter what will the trolls say. chadz stated a fact as i did.
you talk about a weapon balance issue rather than a armor balance issue. about the case you speak... about six months ago among 2h/polearm builds there was 60% 2handed and 40% polearms. now we have 20% 2handed players versus 80% polearms players. about plate, there are more and more 1h warhammers and steel picks around.
Could all this be sorted if perhaps you got added gold along with the extra XP each time you retired? That would reward the longevity of a player. Those that play and cycle thru a few times would have most of the pain mitigated for their time and effort with regards to mid tier armor and weps.Bullshit, an average player can break even with 46k worth of gear if they have a sufficiant buffer for the bad days.I usually keep it around 30-35k to make a steady 8-10k a day and if u sell ur looms u can just ignore ipkeep tbh.
Still keeps it expensive but some point you would be at least profitable in the 25k range while keeping the sink for those that come out in an all plate on plate pony set. Despite what some people say, the current system still bleeds coin for me with 23k in gear.
I play with an upkeep buffer of 25k. I act like 25000 gold = 0 gold. I net gold like crazy though with medium armor, I need to start wearing plate more.What would u classify as medium armour, the Heraldic Mails?
What would u classify as medium armour, the Heraldic Mails?
36-44 armour. Anything higher is heavy or plate.Oh lol then my char wearing 57 body armour total aint medium...
Oh lol then my char wearing 57 body armour total aint medium...
Eh...this has changed how?
The choice changed. Before, there was one option: grind. Now, there are many options. If grinding is your game, you can still do it. I, for one, don't have to grind to be competitive or have fun. I don't have to play a minimum amount of hours per day/week to be able to kill the heroes. This is why it was introduced, this is why it's here to stay.
So even though something isn't liked by a lot of people, and the ones supporting it largely support it simply because you can make money through the marketplace, selling heirloom points ect, it's still going to stay? Seems a little counter productive. Ignore your community to just do whatever the hell you want.
And the choice hasn't changed. You're delusional if you think that. Crpg is a grinder, will always probably be a grinder. If you start out as a new player, what do you have to do to get even a slight amount of gold? Play in peasant gear and grind it out before you can even buy your first sword. Upkeep simply prolongs the grinding process. It's all very well for those who have every bit of shiny equipment bought, but there are plenty that don't. And many that don't have 30K-35K to fall back on.
Why do you think people who start alts often use skip the fun? Largely to skip the unnecessary grind needed to get enough gold to buy anything, and to get the instant xp to avoid that grind aspect.
Just reduce upkeep at least, then you can still have you're little pet that you obviously love so much, but you'd make a lot of people happier and enjoy this more.
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Also, we are currently considering removing upkeep for players < Gen1Level25.
The choice changed. Before, there was one option: grind. Now, there are many options. If grinding is your game, you can still do it. I, for one, don't have to grind to be competitive or have fun. I don't have to play a minimum amount of hours per day/week to be able to kill the heroes. This is why it was introduced, this is why it's here to stay.Yes you do, everybody needs practice to get good.
Yes you do, everybody needs practice to get good.
Practicing is not grinding though, as it involves more then watching a wee little bar slowly increase for the sake of increasing.
but grinding 6 gens reward you with 20% more armor on a medium armor set (body and gauntlets).Some ppl do they're called Koreans.
example:
- studded leather over mail + scale gauntlets = 51 body armor
- lordly studded leather over mail + lordly scale gauntlets = 65 armor
means that having medium armor with his medium weight with armor factor of a plate set, really make the difference.
if you still think people grind to watch a wee little bar slowly increase for the sake of increasing... :rolleyes:
but grinding 6 gens reward you with 20% more armor on a medium armor set (body and gauntlets).
example:
- studded leather over mail + scale gauntlets = 51 body armor
- lordly studded leather over mail + lordly scale gauntlets = 65 armor
means that having medium armor with his medium weight with armor factor of a plate set, really make the difference.
if you still think people grind to watch a wee little bar slowly increase for the sake of increasing... :rolleyes:
but grinding 6 gens reward you with 20% more armor on a medium armor set (body and gauntlets).
example:
- studded leather over mail + scale gauntlets = 51 body armor
- lordly studded leather over mail + lordly scale gauntlets = 65 armor
means that having medium armor with his medium weight with armor factor of a plate set, really make the difference.
if you still think people grind to watch a wee little bar slowly increase for the sake of increasing... :rolleyes:
That is just for the sake of reaching a magic number to get a magic item though, so yeah that is grinding and watching the wee little bar increase just for the sake of it and eventually your magic item... Still grinding, unless you are also practicing or actually having fun, not "I gotta get to level 31 four more tims to get my Lordly Helm!" If the item gives you joy and so does the trip there, then you are playing, but if the item gives you joy but you do not enjoy the journey, then you are grinding and just playing for the sake of watching your little bar increase until you get your shiny toy.But i like deh shineehh :|
That is just for the sake of reaching a magic number to get a magic item though, so yeah that is grinding and watching the wee little bar increase just for the sake of it and eventually your magic item... Still grinding, unless you are also practicing or actually having fun, not "I gotta get to level 31 four more tims to get my Lordly Helm!" If the item gives you joy and so does the trip there, then you are playing, but if the item gives you joy but you do not enjoy the journey, then you are grinding and just playing for the sake of watching your little bar increase until you get your shiny toy.
Bullshit, an average player can break even with 46k worth of gear if they have a sufficiant buffer for the bad days.I usually keep it around 30-35k to make a steady 8-10k a day and if u sell ur looms u can just ignore ipkeep tbh.
Well as I am a first generation player I have no looms to sell, and honestly I would like to keep mine and better my gear. But I can assure you I steady lose money and I am using 27.090 cost.
Current gear is :
Khergit Guard Helmet, Heraldic Mail, leather gloves, rus cavalry boots, a broad one handed axe, a brown kite shield and a red tassle spear. And I promise you, No bullshit, I lose money. Perhaps its my build but there is very little info on what effects upkeep and how often stuff breaks as far as I can tell. Again I am a new player and this is my first rodeo with Mount & Blade. Like so many others I am learning as I go. But I will admit is frustrating to have to change out of my gear and into my one shotable armor. If thats a game design so be it.. but its a poor on imho.
As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.
As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.You have solved the Rubix cube, this may be the cause of all the newbs with fucked up builds money problems.
As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.
You have solved the Rubix cube, this may be the cause of all the newbs with fucked up builds money problems.
Naa, they should gain quite fast enough wpp.Well idn then i make like 50k each time i retire as i make loads with peasnt gear on.
And even low wpf should not be a problem, since the equipment is not that expensive.
I really think that upkeep should be on a sliding scale according to either cost of gear or gen level. What about that idea?
Also, we are currently considering removing upkeep for players < Gen1Level25.
I have 141 wpf in 1 hander and 1 in everything else save throwing where I put the leftovers. Just realized that the spear was better for unhorsing cavalry than the throwing weps so started using that. I can just stop using the spear on no cav heavy maps I suppose.
According to research done by Mala and other in this thread http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,10854.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,10854.0.html) weapons with 1 wpf has around 11% chance of breaking every tick compared to 2,5% chance for a 140 wpf weapon. So drop the spear and see how that works out for you. I'm using more or less the exact same value gear as you usually and I am making quite abit of money.
Getting from 30 to 31 is to slow.. Its not even fun anymore..
Wait, so the chance for breaking is based around the "average" of having 140wpf?! WTF. Isn't that pretty much 6 wm all devoted to a single weapon? Sheesh. And I thought I was pretty invested as a hybrid by making sure to grab enough agi/wm to have 120 in a pair of weapons.
I would like to see upkeep chances affected by more than just round time and pure luck (chance). Maybe have it so the more kills a player has the more his chances of his weapon breaking. Also have it so if a player is killed his chances of his armor breaking are increased compared with a player who survives the round. So if you have pretty good gear but don't get any (or many) kills and you are still alive your chances of paying upkeep would be reduced by a lot. Just some ideas.
I would like to see upkeep chances affected by different things than just round time and luck. Maybe have it so the more kills a player has the more his chances of his weapon breaking. Also have it so if a player is killed his chances of his armor breaking are increased compared with a player who survives the round. So if you have pretty good gear but don't get any (or many) kills and you are still alive your chances of paying upkeep would be reduced by a lot. Just some ideas.So penalise the people that win the round for you?
So penalise the people that win the round for you?How about just have it so if there is no increased chance of breakage for better players BUT there is a reduced chance of breakage for those who don't get many (or any) kills. That would help with the 'omg I just payed upkeep on all this crap which I didn't even use' comments.
I would like to see upkeep chances affected by different things than just round time and luck. Maybe have it so the more kills a player has the more his chances of his weapon breaking. Also have it so if a player is killed his chances of his armor breaking are increased compared with a player who survives the round. So if you have pretty good gear but don't get any (or many) kills and you are still alive your chances of paying upkeep would be reduced by a lot. Just some ideas.
Crpg has a online Feudal system
Join a clan, befriend a lord. Serve him and his Kingdom and be rewarded(ask for handouts sometiem). QQ on the forums and be scolded!
PS.
Join a clan get in strat have even MORE fun! Be a part of SOMETHING intead of a little FORUM TROLOLOLOL! :wink:
Crpg has a online Feudal systemFirst problem
Join a clan, befriend a lord.Second problem
Serve himBiggest problem
Gorath, didn't youbecome a lordstart a clan, andenslave peasantsrecruit people?
Just sayin...
:P
Gorath, didn't youbecome a lordstart a clan, andenslave peasantsrecruit people?
Just sayin...
:P
there was no lordship to our clan, we are/were a ragtag group of barbarians/mercenaries, more akin to the "Expendables" than any feudal system where we actually had loyalty to some overlord, instead a group of crazed bastards would be more fitting
Exactly
They really need to change the XP nerf... Getting from 30 to 31 is to slow.. Its not even fun anymore..So true, but seriously : who the hell needs to retire, now that you can easily respec whenever you want to and the retirementboni became ridicolous
semantics 8-)
Not really.
1) I never ordered anyone around
2) By proxy, noone ever "served" me (serviced maybe, but a little prison sex now and then is good for morale all around)
3) I had no title, nor did anyone else beyond "recruit" and "member". Socialism/equality all around.
Upkeep is the best thing that has happened to cRPG
I still say plated charger needs to be removed or nerfed down to shit, because there will always be people without shame, trying to benefit from their unfair advantage.
Fair play ftw! Don't use my old friend items!
Fair play ftw! Don't use my old friend items!
yes, but at a lower cost with lower chance, not the current rate.
also don't come here and talk about best thing that ever happend when you've only played crpg since april so it would seem, you have no place here.
rage bump
i grinded hours and hours on my alt to have some fun playing with plated charger and good armour.
pathetic the way upkeep is worked out, and plated charger is 4.5k to repair...i mean seriously.
...there are people who have gold into the hundreds of thousands and into the millions, they are the sort of players that are able to use that stuff for a while.yeh yeh broski i know, my main has millions, but i said...
If people want to use the very best of everything for more than 20 minutes, then they are going to have to dedicate some time to earning the gold to sustain it. You don't need the top equipment to have fun.
There are no my old friend items, just unblanced and OP items, like xbow.
Stop saying "NERF my COUNTER!!"
Plated charger is like a tank, and every medium skilled player with a heavy lance can kill shitloads of enemies with this tool, because it simply never dies. Ask Finn about it.
And my old friend items = OP items.
xbow isn't my counter xD pole is
cos i'm cav derp
On a more serious note, I would like to see a less luck-dependant upkeep system. Especially when you wear the more expensive items you need to have quite a buffer to compensate for bad dicerolls. This hurts the new players, and I atleast don't find it "exciting" to wait and see how much upkeep I have to pay this particular round.
No, I'm your counter :p
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yes, but at a lower cost with lower chance, not the current rate.
also don't come here and talk about best thing that ever happend when you've only played crpg since april so it would seem, you have no place here.
Upkeep is the best thing that has ever happened to cRPG, sorry you can't use your plated charger in full tin can armor 24/7 anymore. I grieve for your loss.
Perhaps make money cross character then, except for skip the fun characters. Because reduced upkeep on alts (or no upkeep) would still recreate an annoying metagame.
I played it when everyone was running around in full plate armor and armored horses at generation 10+ keeping 10% of their wpf each time they retired.
Plated charger is like a tank, and every medium skilled player with a heavy lance can kill shitloads of enemies with this tool, because it simply never dies. Ask Finn about it.Hmmm I guess those hits to the head with an iron staff downing them are my imagination. I think people exaggerate about the usefulness of plated horses (and players). I get killed WAY WAY more often from fast and 'weak' horses than the slow lumbering ones. They take a lot of damage...so what. That's not 'OP' considering their downsides.
I played it when everyone was running around in full plate armor and armored horses...everyone in full plate? false. everyone used the best weight/armor ratio needed for personal likings. i never used heavier armor than coat of plates. and the most popular armor was the transitional.
... generation 10+ keeping 10% of their wpf each time they retired.
everyone in full plate? false. everyone used the best weight/armor ratio needed for personal likings. i never used heavier armor than coat of plates. and the most popular armor was the transitional.
again, false. WPF retain was 5% + 5% every gen. so, gen2 5%, gen3 10%, gen4 15%, gen5 20% and so on.
Gen 1 characters that are less then Level 26 don't pay upkeep, they fixed that problem. Most veteran players don't have oodles of cash that they can wear black plate for 7 months solid.
gettin to lvl 27 aint gonna make you filthy rich even if not paying upkeep.
Dont forgot the new player also have to buy gear take that an all hes left with is a snack....
PS: this forum needs an Ignore poster ability Your comments are mostly just gibberish since you most be trying to get your post count in the guinness world record book...
gettin to lvl 27 aint gonna make you filthy rich even if not paying upkeep.
Dont forgot the new player also have to buy gear take that an all hes left with is a snack....
Thx tears most usefull comment i ever gotten from you.
Welcome to my ignore list. :wink:
About damn time...
Now wait until he finds out that I make up more then 1 out of every 51 posts on this forum, and that he will still be able to see my posts every time someone quotes me (like they usually do) :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
If you do the math.... the average multiplier for a player is going to be somewhere around 1.9375, which amounts to an average of 97 gold per minute. This can vary between players, but assuming that on average a player does not radically effect the probability of winning or losing, 1.9375x is the average multiplier. This doesn't include the valor bonus.
[You can figure this out by realizing that multiplied over many games, 1x occurs 1/2 of the time, 2x occurs 1/4 of the time, 3x occurs 1/8th of the time, and 4x and 5x both occur 1/16th of the time. Take those multipliers and divide them out, you get 1.9375, or 31/16]
If we do some fuzzy math and assume that every piece of equipment a player owns has the same probability of needing to be repaired, you can figure out the most expensive [in terms of gold] equipment a player could own [theoretically] by multiplying 97 gold per minute by [[100/4]x[100/7]] which is simply the inverse of the percentage likelyhood that at any minute something needs to be repaired, and the percentage of the cost.
That equals 34,643 gold.
Like i said... this is all fuzzy math, and remember that averages can at best only tell us about the outcomes for groups, not individuals.
Good ambitious try
At an average of X2 modifier it has been found that you can support about 47K of crap, as opposed to pre-major patch that was 50K.
So for every multiplier, it is supposedly 23.5K
How about a system which doesn't have any upkeep at all, but you have to invest skill points to exceed a certain value of equipment? This way we have all dice rolls removed, your performance ingame will be more predictable, and in theory you can run around with whatever equipment you want, AS LONG as you want. New players won't suffer so much from this system, and characters of same levels will have about the same power. Which is also better for auto"balance" calculations. Because players who decide to go without expensive equipment are rewarded with better skills and vice versa. Which means that you can ride around with your plated charger as long as you want, but because of a few spent skill points to increase your budget you will be crap once dismounted. Sounds fair to me.
Hm... Where did i go wrong?
Implying price = better gear.
What do you mean? (I am no native speaker)
Joker is back, damn...
Basically saying plate armor is not worth lower your character stats to wear.
I know it's fun to play a game that has no limitations on anything, but upkeep was introduced due to mob rule honestly.
Most of the people begged for some way to get rid of the "all plate/all day on an armored horse" thing that was a constant. Before that, everyone dressed the same, there was no variety in the game at all. It's sad to say, but the min/maxers brought it on themselves, and it worked great for awhile.
A little time had gone by, and people started finding ways around the limitation, so a new way to bring some variety and common sense into the game was made. This was the loved/hated slots patch. Min/maxers screamed bloody murder, and some innocent hybrids got hurt as well, but it's still pretty playable. Pocket pikes are a thing of the past, archers can't carry a huge melee weapon and be effective archers, and Cavalry can't lance you, switch to sword, then lance you again.
It didn't address the issue with the upkeep workarounds, so we are back to "all plate/all day" though armored horses are lot less common. So I wouldn't be surprised if another upkeep increase is incoming in the future, since min/maxers are going to be min/maxers, and nobody likes them.
In my opinion, (not that it's worth a crap :) ) it extends the longevity of this game that there are limitations to what you can do. Slots makes people plan their load-out instead of the best of everything, and upkeep keeps endgame gear semi-rare (or at least, it's supposed to).
How about a system which doesn't have any upkeep at all, but you have to invest skill points to exceed a certain value of equipment? This way we have all dice rolls removed, your performance ingame will be more predictable, and in theory you can run around with whatever equipment you want, AS LONG as you want.
Upkeep doesn't increase the longevity of the game. If you ask me it's more like the opposite.
When you put it like that, it doesn't sound so horrible. Might consider it if we ever decide to completely change the game again :P
Implying price = better gear.
i want upkeepless days.
epic idea.
Back when the devs were nice, dunno if you all remember, but there was like "double xp on siege" weeks and shit. Little things go a long way. Upkeepless Tuesdays ftw.
but a lot of players will just play on tuesday to farm gold (and that day, new players will just see lots and lots of lolly tincans) the servers will be overpopulated, (with all the network lag problems).
nekkid battles were fun... i don't think upkeepless battles will bring the same fun.
When you put it like that, it doesn't sound so horrible. Might consider it if we ever decide to completely change the game again :P
Wrong. cRPG was dying before the upkeep patch. We lost like 10 to 50 players per day. People lost interest in the senseless grind, new players left right away. That big patch has caused a boost in players, and kept the playerbase at a constant level since that day, more or less, with a bit of an longterm increase.
I has numbers to proof!
So basically you want one more reason why Players should take strength, and ... not give another reason to take AGI as a balance?
I SAY REVERT BACK TO THE TIMES WHERE YOU HAD TO WORK TO LEVEL UP AND GAIN MONEY
if u can't win enough to wear good gear, you're the problem
Strange... chadz says the same thing....
Only reason I came back to C-rpg was because of the upkeep patch, screw fighting armies of tin cans in your pajamas with a sword made of aluminum.
(now I'm not the only one in low tier equip ! :D)
don't know whodafak you are, but you must be NA to come out with such an inaccurate statement about Eu cRPG like that.
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so many plated chargers these days thanks to no upkeep for first 25 lvls of 1st gen players. nubs trampling nubs, feeling powerful. that was a terrible idea.
you want to make it so that everyone not just nubs can use plated chargers.
HELL NO!
omg.. can't you deal with level 25 gen1 plated charger riders?
well you say thats annoying.
how bout an champion plated charger with an steel shield and an MW arabian cav sword.
hmm what seems worse,considering every gen 2 player had the ability to sell him loompoint and walk with charger all the time.
Back in the days, as you surely remember, players like those were cannon fodder. Right now it takes some time to kill them not because they are skilled (which they are not, at all) but because they have 80 armor overall...
Why should some noob get such privilege when most of us, when we started playing this mod had to go throught that painful rite of initiation being peasant?
a gen1 level 25 main character can't have +3 plated charger +3 arabian cav sword.
we were talking about under level 26 gen1 plated charger riders without upkeep.
Back in the days, as you surely remember, players like those were cannon fodder. Right now it takes some time to kill them not because they are skilled (which they are not, at all) but because they have 80 armor overall...
Why should some noob get such privilege when most of us, when we started playing this mod had to go throught that painful rite of initiation being peasant?
Back in the days, as you surely remember, players like those were cannon fodder. Right now it takes some time to kill them not because they are skilled (which they are not, at all) but because they have 80 armor overall...
Why should some noob get such privilege when most of us, when we started playing this mod had to go throught that painful rite of initiation being peasant?
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Hi, so you guys are all talking about what it's like as a new player. I'm a new player. I started playing a few days ago and had literally just got some decent (and not even tincan) gear with a danish great sword and then I hit level 26 and I can't use any of it. I played for about 20 minutes at x3 multiplyer and lost about 2000 of my 16000 gold. The real problem, is that with the current way of gaining money there is a limit on how much you can make no matter how well you do so it's impossible to out weigh the upkeep. With the old system you could gain money if you did well and then you would be able to outweigh the cost of tin-canning.
You say it gives the game more variation. It doesn't. It makes it so that everyone has to wear trash armor and there's no point in the equipment system whatsoever.
I don't want to wear leather, I want to be a knight. Why put in the plate and then make it un-usable? Learn to balance items around their stats and not just take the easy way out.
Make the plate armor/plated charger/etc much more expensive and remove upkeep. Otherwise - to me personally - this mod is broken.
(Oh and the guy above me is right, even when I do wear the good armor I still get mowed because I'm not as good as the vets)
Earlier some guy from a clan killed me with a club. /shame
I know it already does that, but if it's still an issue just make it worse. Also, I understand what you mean about a medieval battlefield where only a few were knightly and the rest were peasants - but is it fair that only the people that played before upkeep and have millions of gold in the bank get to use the good armor?
I'm perfectly fine with literally gaining almost no money while I'm using my plate, and then if I do want to save some have to take it off and use leather. But not being able to use it at all or until ive spent hours playing without it doesn't seem fun to me - and after all isn't that the point of playing a game?
There wasnt any ''everyone was in plate back then'' there's in fact more plater now than before, I personally don't mind, but whiners will whine.
PRe jan there wasnt NA servers, remember?
Make the plate armor/plated charger/etc much more expensive and remove upkeep. Otherwise - to me personally - this mod is broken.
Incorrectly believes all old players have a million Gold
There wasnt any ''everyone was in plate back then'' there's in fact more plater now than before, I personally don't mind, but whiners will whine.But there is a "everybody would be in plate now if the system was still the same"
there's in fact more plater now than before, I personally don't mind, but whiners will whine.
So I took what people have been saying into account and decided to play with cloth robes, a hood, the first gloves and leather boots. Along with my danish greatsword. Still losing money. FML
Whine as much as you want, upkeep stays :)
Ofc, why would upkeep matter to you when you aim to sell things for ridiculous gold? 8-)
Leshma Lordly Rus Scale Armor 1800000
Some poor people are poor (literally)
As a general reply:
Not sure why I'm even repeating that, but there were two options.
- total wipes in frequent intervals,
- upkeep
If you don't see the necessity for either of those, please stay the fuck away from game design.
cRPG was dying before the upkeep patch. We lost like 10 to 50 players per day. People lost interest in the senseless grind, new players left right away. That big patch has caused a boost in players, and kept the playerbase at a constant level since that day, more or less, with a bit of an longterm increase.
I has numbers to proof!
I just don't see how I can even play if I lose money when basically only using my weapon. The total for the rest of my gear was 4 upkeep.
I guess I should use a club until I have 1000000 goldI would advice to take a bit better armor and a lesser weapon like... for example (what i use when i want to make gold)
Mine's 17.4k and I lose more than I gain.
OK I'll take your advice. The problem I have is that right now I'm not as good as everyone else and my skills aren't as high. So a lot of things one shot me when I'm not wearing plate. And It's hard to compete with the people that can afford to run around in high tier armor and weapons.Mate belive me, im nowhere near the top players but with this setup i can still bash some heads in.
It's hard to get better at a game when you can't afford to make a single mistake when fighting someone.
OK I'll take your advice. The problem I have is that right now I'm not as good as everyone else and my skills aren't as high. So a lot of things one shot me when I'm not wearing plate. And It's hard to compete with the people that can afford to run around in high tier armor and weapons.
It's hard to get better at a game when you can't afford to make a single mistake when fighting someone.
Firs thing first, stay away from the battle in first 3 or 4 minutes, do not rush multiple enemies, look for people with low lvl gear and so on. You can make mistakes if you avoid multiple enemies and pro players.Finding a friendly person to help you out in the duel server will also be a very rewarding experience though extremely frstrating at first.
Also thisFinding a friendly person to help you out in the duel server will also be a very rewarding experience though extremely frstrating at first.
If it bothers you so much I'll take it off. It's not for sale anyways :wink:
Acera... I am also curious, the more wpf you have in a weapon the less chance of it breaking, so 1wpf will regularly break while 140 will only break occasionally. What wpf do you have in 2 hander?
110 wpf means a lot of paying for upkeep :wink:
I'll tell u a secret, I start every round with wooden sword, sometimes I play with it till the end but sometimes I pick someones MW Danish or German. I'm satisfied with my results, especially when I'm concentrated on game which I'm not in last few days...
OK I'll take your advice. The problem I have is that right now I'm not as good as everyone else and my skills aren't as high. So a lot of things one shot me when I'm not wearing plate. And It's hard to compete with the people that can afford to run around in high tier armor and weapons.
It's hard to get better at a game when you can't afford to make a single mistake when fighting someone.
Firs thing first, stay away from the battle in first 3 or 4 minutes, do not rush multiple enemies, look for people with low lvl gear and so on. You can make mistakes if you avoid multiple enemies and pro players.
Meh. These days EU1 isn't about skill it's about survival. When everyone has ranged weapon dueling skills aren't that important.
Lesson? equipment and stats do not mean anything if you have no skill, if you can fight well at a disadvantage, i.e cheaper/weaker equipment, then you can fight even better when you do get decent equipment.
as you say sir. If you stay away from the battle (not helping the team, delaying, etc..) sure you can dress with rags and seek loners around.
if you want to do some decent teamplay, you need to stick to your mates where you need to be. In my case, i need to advance with the rest of the infantry. i have a board shield for pre-charge purposes. the moment i put it away just before the brawl, be sure i'll get a bolt or 2 in the butt. with crap stuff i'll be dead in no time. with a lordly rus lamellar cuirass + lordly plate mittens (72 body armor) i can assure you i'll survive some ranged stuff, some teamwounds and take down a good amount of enemy infantry.
i'll not help my team being 2shot by 2 pinpoint arrows or sneaking improbable places... nor i need to stay away from battle to be the last jerk versus zillion enemies just to show off e-peen.
who is fairly new to this game, when dead should stick the camera on some good teamwork players and learn from them... i'm not one of them tho. i try to do my best when i really enjoy the game (balanced teams, reasonable mix of builds.. not the 90% crossbowmen we see usually). is not everytime possible but some rounds, cRPG could show maybe the best teamplay game ever.
I don't think you understood what I wrote, because your reply has nothing to do with what I was talking about or infact the topic of this thread.
neither you.
i just simply stated that: if you wear rags and seek fair fights around, you'll not help your team. period.
if you want to cooperate, you will need (depending on your build) to go in the brawl. for that you need proper gear. stating that good gear is useless compared to skill is not true. you USE your gear paired with your SKILL to be able to play EFFICIENTLY. and yes sometimes you need to take the beating to protect a good archer or a stopped teammate cavalry. sacrifice to help the team is often required. that's where my 6 of 13 generations spent on boosting armor and gauntlets kicks in.
I do like the upkeep, stops people from using plate/Cav all the time.
Through making so wpf is more effect by the heavy armors would help a lot ;)
Banner balance is usually unfair except when the Hoplites get balanced to one team :lol:
I've been thinking about this a lot. Now that Strategus is out, why do we need upkeep?
Why can't Strategus be for the serious playing and plain old CRPG be just for fun again?
With these last few patches the game has become less and less fun. You have to worry about upkeep so you can't use your cool stuff all the time. The xp bonus has been nerfed to shit, so it takes forever to level. Those are the kinds of things that help make the game fun, but now it's just a painful grind.
Also with our current system, you are punished for losing instead of rewarded for playing. Every time you lose, you will probably lose a chunk of money. Not to mention that you'll be leveling at a fraction of the level of the speed you would be at if you won. It's kind of an unfair system that puts you at the mercy of autobalance. Especially since banner balance puts most of a clan on one team. I know when there's a lot of us on (ATS) we can roll a server for hours. I know other clans do the same exact thing. I just feel that the old system of money and xp for kills was overall more rewarding and more fun. With that system, just by playing you got rewarded. Even if you lost you still made a good amount of money and xp.
Now back to upkeep. Some people say that we need it so there aren't as many tincans and horses. Honestly, who gives a shit? Too many tincans? Bring a pierce or blunt weapon. Too many horses, get some awareness and a big, pointy stick. Plate isn't that great anymore anyway, especially with the dramatically reduced chance of glancing. Also, it would stop the devs from using upkeep as a lazy way to balance certain items. (*cough*XBOWS*cough*)
If we gained xp fast again, it would make leveling more enjoyable AND it would make it easier to make alts/play different builds, etc. Some people though will complain that people will get too many heirlooms this way. Again, who gives a shit? If Goretooth had 10,000 heirlooms it doesn't make the game less fun for me. It's not like someone having more heirlooms than me makes mine worse. You can only have so many heirlooms anyway, so what's the difference?
All-in-all, I think this game has lost a lot of the fun factor over the patches and I'd like to see it return. We have Strategus for the super-serious stuff anyway.
tl;dr Since Strategus is back, we have that for serious play. Let's remove upkeep and give back the xp bonus to make the regular game more fun again.
I do like the upkeep, stops people from using plate/Cav all the time.
Through making so wpf is more effect by the heavy armors would help a lot ;)
You were in Kutt and you think upkeep stops people from using whatever they want? Again, it only fucks over new players and people without enough free time.
By removing upkeep you basically give everyone the green light to wear full milanese plate all day and use only the high end weapons.^ Zan does have a good point
Remind me again how this benefits new players?
By removing upkeep you basically give everyone the green light to wear full milanese plate all day and use only the high end weapons.
Remind me again how this benefits new players?
Me in full plate scaring the peasants for life as I one shot them with a horse bump is inspirational. With out people like me in the... 85%??? I don't know, what ever. They would have no reason to ever doing anything but roll around in the mud, they just don't have the culture needed to grow by themselves, they need to be inspired and get trickled on.
armour is overpowered, upkeep is the only nerf to it
VERY UNFRIENDLY FOR NEW PERSONS
By removing upkeep you basically give everyone the green light to wear full milanese plate all day and use only the high end weapons.
Remind me again how this benefits new players?
Me in full plate scaring the peasants for life as I one shot them with a horse bump is inspirational. With out people like me in the... 85%??? I don't know, what ever. They would have no reason to ever doing anything but roll around in the mud, they just don't have the culture needed to grow by themselves, they need to be inspired and get trickled on.
"IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED, TRY, TRY AGAIN. Don't give up too easily; persistence pays off in the end. - From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996, Page 154)
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Hey he needs that gold for his flying carpet army ;)Yeah those carpets and staffs must cost a fortune to buy. Not to speak the upkeep costs :F.
Yeah those carpets and staffs must cost a fortune to buy. Not to speak the upkeep costs :F.
The thing is, upkeep hurts new players the most. All these veterans have enough cash to wear whatever the fuck they want whenever they want to for unending periods. And soon they'll just sell another loom point, they have no need to worry about repairs. Where new players are stuck with shit gear trying to just get through their first gen or two without quitting. At least without upkeep the playing field is evened and anyone can be a plate baddy.So no upkeep = everyone can now wear plate......ok...now everyone is wearing plate......hmmmm.....new forum topics appear such as 'wtf why is everyone in plate?..nerf it so no one but people who like to punish themselves will wear it'.....plate gets nerfed..no one uses it.....now everybody is in medium gear.....new forum topic....'why is everyone in medium gear?.....it's too good...nerf it'.....medium gear is nerfed and no one uses it.....now everybody wears rags......new forum topic...'why is everyone leeching in rags and super agile?'..nerf rags and athletics'.....rags and athletics are nerfed.
So no upkeep = everyone can now wear plate......ok...now everyone is wearing plate......hmmmm.....new forum topics appear such as 'wtf why is everyone in plate?..nerf it so no one but people who like to punish themselves will wear it'.....plate gets nerfed..no one uses it.....now everybody is in medium gear.....new forum topic....'why is everyone in medium gear?.....it's too good...nerf it'.....medium gear is nerfed and no one uses it.....now everybody wears rags......new forum topic...'why is everyone leeching in rags and super agile?'..nerf rags and athletics'.....rags and athletics are nerfed.
By removing upkeep you basically give everyone the green light to wear full milanese plate all day and use only the high end weapons.
Remind me again how this benefits new players?
I hope that chadz does something to increase upkeep or something totally revamp upkeep so people can't just sell heirloom points to fund high end gear because they can't be effective using mid/low end gear.
All upkeep serves to do in my eyes is prevent people from using what they want to use (i.e. discourage variety), like chadz-text. I'd prefer if higher tier horses, armors, and weapons were balanced properly as opposed to intended to result in bankruptcy just because a given person likes the style of it. Might as well remove all silver-metallic armors from the game if you're going to make it a pain to use them.
Clans like KUTT take this too far. When it takes 10 hits to kill someone of lesser skill it just gives them that much more time to get someone to come from behind and hit you. Or you accidentally glance and get hit by an axe with 12 ps.
That's kind of the point. If we want our guys to move quickly we'd have them in lighter armor or use more athletics, but it's just not worth it given the small chokepoints that are common in most siege maps (which is what a lot of our members play exclusively). There are builds suited for different game-modes and a lot of us have specialized in siege builds. For example, one of the biggest problems with throwers is low ammunition, but we can utilize weapon racks near vital chokepoints in siege to replenish their ammo so they can rain hell down on the attackers. Another example is cavalry. Are cavalry supposed to be utilized in castle sieges? Probably, under given circumstances, but I think it's a given that they aren't intended to be a deciding factor in that given situation. Also, as far as I know, KUTT doesn't have many full strength builds. Sosarian is 36/3, but that's the only person I can think of off the top of my head. The rest of us are either balanced or slightly strength-leaned (I'm a 27/12 shielder, for example). Also, isn't Para the only one of us who is always wearing plate?
Xeen claims that the upkeep screws over new players. However if a new player joins KUTT and get handed tons of plate and high end weapons it instantly makes them 10 times more effective and player skill has nothing to do with it. So it helps new players in that regard.
The majority of new players don't end up joining KUTT. You're thinking of Hospitaller. Also, if you think plate makes someone 10 times better than they would be in light-medium armor you should get a blunt or pierce weapon. Might help.
CRPG is supposedly focused on player skill. Yet horsebumps and newb plate/str crutchers take no skill and are way to effective for just plainly existing.
cRPG is not based on player skill. You're thinking of Native. How you design your character determines your ability in given situations as much, if not more than skill does and that's just how it is. The mod has been headed in this direction for a while now, can't be too hard to notice.
Sad but true story, i got clan mates who sell their hard earned loom points to pay for their upkeep, and no they don't run around in max gear all the time.
Exchange upkeep with tickets and cooldown and usage points.
Dependent on item give them f.e. the ability to be used for 20 rounds then it can't be used for 5 rounds.
Also dependent on item, it needs usage points out of your usage point pool.
If that pool is used up, you can't use higher tear gear anymore.
That but would need several more outfits on every character and therefor more gold. Also a safe option for gear set 1-x would then be most welcome,
Anytime a part of your gear, reaches the cooldown, the servers switches to your next default gear, which may not be the same.
That way you can keep a balance to the items that'll be used without the need that players have to loose anything.
You can still reduce the gold income so people are only slowly buing stuff, but that is only a secondary balancing method in my mind.
The only good thing about upkeep is, that it makes people choose between lesser evils, less loss of gold or less good gear.
You may argue that that is part of the fun, still i believe it is more a matter of opinion and not logic as it is now.
Upkeep keeps 90% of the community from wearing plate / riding plated chargers 100% of the time.
This solution won't work well.
First of all, once your time with
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runs out, you use
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This would balance nothing, and just add an annoyance.
We do agree that upkeep needs to be replaced with something different, but this change needs to have an "active" effect on the player, not a "passive" one. Your suggestion (limited availability) would be a passive one for example. High upkeep, difficulties to acquire, limited ammunition or similar things are passive, because they have no active influence on the fight itself. Your opponent doesn't feel those limitations you have. A nice example would be the pocket-nuclear-bomb. Buying the item costs 100.000.000 (one hundred mil.) gold, upkeep is corresponding, you can use it once a week and you can only use it if you own at least five fiefs in strat. Still when it's thrown and kills every enemy on the map it is unbalanced. The enemies did nothing wrong, and yet they have to die, because a particular player has proven he has no real life. This is not how balance works.
You need a system where all players are equally effective, at least on the paper. They have to decide between different factors like mobility, protection, damage, flexibility and so on, but all those values added should always have the same result, never mind which combination you use. My idea for example was to need skills to use better equipment. That way, if someone appears in front of you, with full plate and a flamberge, you know you still have a chance, because his skills are worse than yours. This makes you FEEL the penalties he has to pay for his superior equipment, making this solution an "active" penalty effect. We need something like that.
Nice job with the example armours :wink:
Joker, i think i wasn't complettly clear on the usage points
Say medium tear gear to high tear gear needs usage points. (perhaps the name can be better)
It would work like everyone has like 100 usage points.
For example:
A plated body armor would need 30
A light Kuyak would need 15
A mail Shirt would need 10
same with every other gear to a certain lowest limit.
everything below doesn't need usage points and also doesn't have the timers.
Clear so far.
You can only buy limited gear all in all up to 100 usage points.
1. First unclear point. Do you mean buy limited gear for your inventory, or buy limited gear as equipment?
Then you create your sets,
When your good limited gear runs out of time you switch automaticly to either other limited gear if you have enough usage points invested into that
particular area of gear type or your low level gear.
2. How to invest usage points in a particular gear type? How is it limited, what do you pay for it?
So basicly it is the same as now, that people switch between different gear, only that it is not done by gold restrictions which are often dependent if you get lucky with your team or the time you play regularly for a longer amount of time.
3. That's what I was talking about. Limiting the time you can use an item doesn't help balancing the effectivity of different characters. Having a minigun which you can use only once a week isn't balanced, because at that particular time when it is used the weapon would still be OP. When being shot to pieces by the minigun you have only little consolation in the fact that he won't be able to repeat that for a week.
The timers won't reset if you don't play for a while, every round there is a tick added to the timer till the restriction kicks in and you need to use a different gear,
but as the server provides you with the basic layouts of your gear set, you don't have to configure it all over again ingame and loose time.
I need to have the first points clarified to understand this one.
EDIT:
This would balance the players who have already huge amounts of cache and are mostly running around in heavy gear anyways and new players at the time they can afford it to buy a piece, will be able to use heavy gear regularly
@Joker i just read partly about your suggestion about hardcaps, the usage points are more or less like that, and i am not against different maximum usage points dependent on what the player does invest his skill points into. That but must be done very carefully i believe as f.e. hybrids may try to gain the most usage points to increase their hardcap. To have a different skill as you suggested to invest into, would need a complete character reset, nothing impossible, but it would go against the philosophy that players should live with their choices they done while leveling.
Honestly I can load up my Napoleon Wars and not put up with being punished even more than losing. I KNOW I suck but at least outside of cRPG I'm not PUNISHED for sucking. :|
upkeep is still better than any of your ideasBalance the game so that every item is unique and useful in it's own way and that nothing is truly better than something else?
try harder
Balance the game so that every item is unique and useful in it's own way and that nothing is truly better than something else?
I do not have any problem with upkeep especially now when you could transfer money from alt and sell heirlooms. In cheap gear you could easily make 20k within three hours.
So make money grinding alt and profit.
You could do that, but it would take away the dimension of items of different quality, and limit item diversity. (As you often have only two or three values which can changed within an item category, e.g. armour weight and protection or damage, speed and range for melee weapons.)Yes on this forum I see constantly:
I would prefer both: a mixture of having several items of the same value AND having different item "tiers" of different values. (With no clear lines between the tiers, which would be lame. No "Quality level 1 swords" and "Quality level 5 swords".)
That's actually the point against the upkeep system. No problems with upkeep => no problems with money => no item limitations => not desired effect.
So I think that people want to get rid of upkeep only to be without problem use best loomed gear 24/7
Yes on this forum I see constantly:
1.I am running around in rags and still losing money :cry:
2.Shit I want to be a Knight a knight in shiny armor and even shinier horse but upkeep is ruining me :evil: Buff plate ofc.
3.Damn bodkins they break all the time I swear that I lose more money then my alt with plated charger :wink:
So I think that people want to get rid of upkeep only to be without problem use best loomed gear 24/7
I made around 10 k gold plus in 2 hours playing in equipment with total upkeep of 2.6 k (1.2 k only the armor).
If anything upkeep is to low ...
Well, if you are not willed to go through some days of "gold-grind" to have enough gold for average-good euqipment this is the wrong place for you :\
I Don't spend weeks playing this game I come in now and then to have some fun with a sense of accomplishment that you don't get as much in vanilla or Napoleon. That's what I'm enjoying about cRPG is that I'm growing and improving in tangible ways.You don't want to put in the time yet want the benefits of those who did? Ok, devs give noobs 100,000 gold. They can only be bothered to play the game 'now and then' YET want the benefits that come from not playing it just now and then.
Yet the current upkeep system penalizes folks like me who aren't "hardcore" or "Dedicated" enough to devote the hours/days/weeks/months to have 50K reserves and such.
You don't want to put in the time yet want the benefits of those who did? Ok, devs give noobs 100,000 gold. They can only be bothered to play the game 'now and then' YET want the benefits that come from not playing it just now and then.
So just grind it out that's what you're saying? I shouldn't need a 50K G reserve to play the game and have fun. As I said before I can easily just go back to Napoleon DLC instead of this because I'm not being penalized for losing all the time.This is bullshit QQ .
Do you want new players here or not?
I've done the Korean grind-fest MMO's and honestly I don't need to do them in M&B. I Don't spend weeks playing this game I come in now and then to have some fun with a sense of accomplishment that you don't get as much in vanilla or Napoleon. That's what I'm enjoying about cRPG is that I'm growing and improving in tangible ways.
Yet the current upkeep system penalizes folks like me who aren't "hardcore" or "Dedicated" enough to devote the hours/days/weeks/months to have 50K reserves and such.
Seriously this IS a good mod, I enjoy it, but it's not an easy one to love when it punishes you to learn about it. ESPECIALLY when there are other easy options to play that don't.
It is very fucking simple in 1 week you can retire , consider you play very casual and lets say 2 weeks.
Are we playing the same game? I feel like I play this game religiously and it takes at least a month for me to retire.
Using the crpg calc pack, to retire at gen 1, it takes 74 hours and 6 minutes. (It does state that its only accurate to lvl 30 and the time I'm giving is based on an average of x2 multi).
That's 4446 minutes to retire at gen 1 with an average of x2 multi.
If you play 4 hours a day, it would take approximately 18.5 days to retire.
So for people that can roll a x5 constantly on siege/battle, this doesn't really apply especially since they're most likely multiple gens with extra xp per tick. However, getting a gen in a week seems very quick.
Using that gear with only 3600 gold left? Smart.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)And here's my current cash. I have bought NOTHING since the German Poleaxe.(click to show/hide)And here's all I have. I keep most of this stuff as back-up for broken items or when I'm rolling in cheaper gear.(click to show/hide)
Using that gear with only 3600 gold left? Smart.
Well, with 2.8 k your equipment is quite expensive. I played in 2 - 2.6 k (depending on which weapon, armor always the same) the whole evening now and made around 30 k gold plus. Try a loadout with 2 k max (so just take a medium armor and a cheaper helmet) but keep your weapon.
Yeah. Right now I lost about 3 k in a few maps, and switched to my medium loadtout (only 1.8 k). I´m ALWAYS make money with it even with x1 for some maps.
(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)And here's my current cash. I have bought NOTHING since the German Poleaxe.(click to show/hide)And here's all I have. I keep most of this stuff as back-up for broken items or when I'm rolling in cheaper gear.(click to show/hide)
I was at about 9k Gold when I started. That's the point of this discussion.Do people really just continue to use the same stuff and wonder why they are still broke?
Again if the design is to force me to have 50K G reserve BEFORE I can regularly use this set-up then that's fine. If there's a lower armor that'll let me maintain a good upkeep balance with that weapon then I'll switch to lower gear to get it. Again that's fine but if I wasn't coming here as a new player I would not know that. I'd just be screwed going "WTF MATE THIS MOD IS SHEET!"
why take such a extreme light armor? It´s in no realtion what you use with your heavy armor. Just take something in the 38 - 42 body armor range (like mail shirt or light kuyak) and you still be fine with money. Steppe armor really is a peasant "armor", maybe some archers / HA use it for the looks/theme, but as infantry you don´t want to use that, way too light.
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginWhy don't you sell your german poleaxe and use the money to buy a hafted blade.
Okay I'll run around with this until I retire then.
This is what I swap to when I'm losing money anyway so hopefully with some tweaks I'll be fine. :)
Why don't you sell your german poleaxe and use the money to buy a hafted blade.
Upkeep is an unbalanced system in the fact that it only prevent NEW players from using good items since all the veterans have enough money that they can use whatever they want without any consequences.There are plenty of cheap 'good' items.
Well that went poorly. :(
Even with a 3X bonus for much of the time I ended up losing money with that rig. Switched to my leather armor set-up to break even. :(
Though I only played for 20 mins will keep trying! :)
Are we playing the same game? I feel like I play this game religiously and it takes at least a month for me to retire.Well i retired yesterday and now im level 26 but probably we are not playing the same game because i do play and participate Strategus actively aswell.
Well that went poorly. :(Since you split points in one handed AND polearm you are going to have a higher upkeep rate. That's really not smart to do if you are a new player just starting out and with little gold to cover the increased upkeep. Try using the voulge. It's cheap and if you wear lighter armor it should swing fast enough.
Even with a 3X bonus for much of the time I ended up losing money with that rig. Switched to my leather armor set-up to break even. :(
Well that went poorly. :(
Even with a 3X bonus for much of the time I ended up losing money with that rig. Switched to my leather armor set-up to break even. :(
Though I only played for 20 mins will keep trying! :)
These days I pay a lot less upkeep playing siege game mod.
If you want to earn money, DTV seems like a pretty good place for that. But only if there are experienced DTV players.
Also rageball is good mod for making money because you don't need heavy gear to be competitive.
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