Why do we even need upkeep anymore?

[Tears of Destiny]

but grinding 6 gens reward you with 20% more armor on a medium armor set (body and gauntlets).

example:
- studded leather over mail + scale gauntlets = 51 body armor
- lordly studded leather over mail + lordly scale gauntlets = 65 armor

means that having medium armor with his medium weight with armor factor of a plate set, really make the difference.

if you still think people grind to watch a wee little bar slowly increase for the sake of increasing... 

That is just for the sake of reaching a magic number to get a magic item though, so yeah that is grinding and watching the wee little bar increase just for the sake of it and eventually your magic item... Still grinding, unless you are also practicing or actually having fun, not "I gotta get to level 31 four more tims to get my Lordly Helm!" If the item gives you joy and so does the trip there, then you are playing, but if the item gives you joy but you do not enjoy the journey, then you are grinding and just playing for the sake of watching your little bar increase until you get your shiny toy.

[Baggy]

That is just for the sake of reaching a magic number to get a magic item though, so yeah that is grinding and watching the wee little bar increase just for the sake of it and eventually your magic item... Still grinding, unless you are also practicing or actually having fun, not "I gotta get to level 31 four more tims to get my Lordly Helm!" If the item gives you joy and so does the trip there, then you are playing, but if the item gives you joy but you do not enjoy the journey, then you are grinding and just playing for the sake of watching your little bar increase until you get your shiny toy.

But i like deh shineehh 

[Corrado_Decimo]

That is just for the sake of reaching a magic number to get a magic item though, so yeah that is grinding and watching the wee little bar increase just for the sake of it and eventually your magic item... Still grinding, unless you are also practicing or actually having fun, not "I gotta get to level 31 four more tims to get my Lordly Helm!" If the item gives you joy and so does the trip there, then you are playing, but if the item gives you joy but you do not enjoy the journey, then you are grinding and just playing for the sake of watching your little bar increase until you get your shiny toy.

obviously you do that while trying new builds. but you just retire when you get 31 to fine tune your gear and to have some added value in trading items. there are really few players that stop retiring just to stay at level 31 or hit 32 some day.

anyway running with same armor rating of a stock armor but with a lot lesser weight is not so bad... especially on no-shield melee builds that rely their mistakes on ironflesh and armor.

i don't even know why i'm trying to debating this with you.

well sorry i don't have time to feed the other 2 trolls about korean grinding and skill matters.

[Tears of Destiny]

I think you are missing my point, in all honesty... I am not saying "trying to get heirlooms" is grinding or bad... just playing the game for the sake of heirlooms and not enjoying it at low levels below 30 without your heirloomed toys is grinding.

[Applejack]

I would be fine with everything if every time I join a server I didn't get auto balanced to the losing team, while the other team is stacked by clan members and then spend about half an hour getting **** on from a great height stuck in peasant gear and with a x1 multiplier.

When you guys refer to a "banner" system do you mean it assigns clan members to the same team? And then the game punishes the losing team? Because if so that is doo-lally bananas stupid.

[Ackwire]

Bullshit, an average player can break even with 46k worth of gear if they have a sufficiant buffer for the bad days.I usually keep it around 30-35k to make a steady 8-10k a day and if u sell ur looms u can just ignore ipkeep tbh.

Well as I am a first generation player I have no looms to sell, and honestly I would like to keep mine and better my gear.  But I can assure you I steady lose money and I am using 27.090 cost.

Current gear is :

Khergit Guard Helmet, Heraldic Mail, leather gloves, rus cavalry boots, a broad one handed axe, a brown kite shield and a red tassle spear.     And I promise you, No bullshit, I lose money.  Perhaps its my build but there is very little info on what effects upkeep and how often stuff breaks as far as I can tell.   Again I am a new player and this is my first rodeo with Mount & Blade.  Like so many others I am learning as I go.  But I will admit is frustrating to have to change out of my gear and into my one shotable armor.  If thats a game design so be it.. but its a poor on imho.

[rustyspoon]

Well as I am a first generation player I have no looms to sell, and honestly I would like to keep mine and better my gear.  But I can assure you I steady lose money and I am using 27.090 cost.

Current gear is :

Khergit Guard Helmet, Heraldic Mail, leather gloves, rus cavalry boots, a broad one handed axe, a brown kite shield and a red tassle spear.     And I promise you, No bullshit, I lose money.  Perhaps its my build but there is very little info on what effects upkeep and how often stuff breaks as far as I can tell.   Again I am a new player and this is my first rodeo with Mount & Blade.  Like so many others I am learning as I go.  But I will admit is frustrating to have to change out of my gear and into my one shotable armor.  If thats a game design so be it.. but its a poor on imho.

As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.

[Sylver]

As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.

Rustyspoon,

That's good to know - cuz lots of us new players are  running around with similar gear.  I had the same setup, just with a bow instead.  So it seems until you get to level 25, you are stuck with low WPF and so you have your gear breaking constantly because you have low WPF.  I was level 20 before I realized I should have put a decent amount of my points into WM, so that I would have more WPF.  grrr... I learned, but for the longest time, just like this guy, I had no cash.  Literally, the only way to make any money at all was to turn off upkeep and run around with broken gear.  I know there are lots more like us. 

I really think that upkeep should be on a sliding scale according to either cost of gear or gen level.  What about that idea?

[Baggy]

As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.

You have solved the Rubix cube, this may be the cause of all the newbs with fucked up builds money problems.

[Armpit_Sweat]

Damn, this thread keeps growing

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[Ackwire]

As you're using both a 1-hander and a polearm, I would question what your WPF is in each. If you have low WPF in a weapon, your chance of breakage is MUCH higher than normal. With only 27k worth of gear you should be making money.

I have 141 wpf in 1 hander and 1 in everything else save throwing where I put the leftovers.  Just realized that the spear was better for unhorsing cavalry than the throwing weps so started using that.   I can just stop using the spear on no cav heavy maps I suppose.

Does anything mitigate armor breakage?   It seems my armor likes to break alot and together.  Either Im repairing something small or everything so it feels. 

And I played tonight with that set up for several hours and Ive made 1850ish gold it looks like.   Will start trying it without the spear and see if that helps any with the sink.

[Kuhparnicuhs]

Just so I'm following here, for or against upkeep nerf/removal?

[Mala]

You have solved the Rubix cube, this may be the cause of all the newbs with fucked up builds money problems.

Naa, they should gain quite fast enough wpp.
And even low wpf should not be a problem, since the equipment is not that expensive.

[Baggy]

Naa, they should gain quite fast enough wpp.
And even low wpf should not be a problem, since the equipment is not that expensive.

Well idn then i make like 50k each time i retire as i make loads with peasnt gear on.

[CoWorm]

I really think that upkeep should be on a sliding scale according to either cost of gear or gen level.  What about that idea?

The idea from chadz post earlier would probably solve some new player issues with upkeep.

Also, we are currently considering removing upkeep for players < Gen1Level25.

I have 141 wpf in 1 hander and 1 in everything else save throwing where I put the leftovers.  Just realized that the spear was better for unhorsing cavalry than the throwing weps so started using that.   I can just stop using the spear on no cav heavy maps I suppose.

According to research done by Mala and other in this thread http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,10854.0.html weapons with 1 wpf has around 11% chance of breaking every tick compared to 2,5% chance for a 140 wpf weapon. So drop the spear and see how that works out for you. I'm using more or less the exact same value gear as you usually and I am making quite abit of money.