Why do we even need upkeep anymore?

[Entaro]

I think we're missing the point - that is the game (ideally) revolves around the multiplier.  Winning rounds rewards multiplier, thereby allowing you more income to use more expensive gear.

I appreciate some of these upkeep debates, but when I log into cRPG, I already see a lot of people using fairly heavy armors and weaponry.  If the upkeep was reduced or diminished, we would only see more and more people wearing higher tier gear most of the time, which isn't good and would just further create a divide between old and new school playerbase.

[Trikipum]

Yes its very easy to earn money... with the banner balance and all... or what about exploiting crpg money?... or wait wait...
You guys dont see that the upkeep just makes some classes a much worse choice. 2handers and polearmers are cheap classes by nature and they will shine even with a 5k weapon. A shielder needs at least around 10k just for his set of weapons and then he wont have the best of best but some mediocre stuff. Actually 90% 1handers are redundant since there is no use for them. Cheap 1handers are just too bad to use them. Also short 1handers are bugged to hell. Shield arent that great... you can destroy most of them with just 2 hits with the right weapon/stats....and those guys saying 48k is the sweet point for equipment.. you dont play the same game or you are too stupid to take in account the heirlooms....Now please cry about the horses and how they should make them more expensive since they are soooo powerfull that i kill them like candy using my cheap 1hander sword.... An uber cavalry player has no chance against any skilled 2 hander in a 1vs1...tell me how that makes sense. the cav may have some chances if he is using at least a destrier (that is, your horse will be able to sustain 2 stabs instead of 1).. but them again, the costs vs the perfomance just makes it retarded to use (sure its ok if you got like 2 millions in crpg money). Every month that passes, every buch of lamers complainting about the classes etc etc makes it clear what is the "class".....best character damage/cost/advantages wise is actually a 24/15 2 hander.... that is the obvious choice. Cheap, can one hit almost anyone even using a cheap sword, Can take tons of damage using a 10k armor and actually will earn money  using decent stuff. Same for polearms. Rest classes are just ilogical and will make you feel like a homeless. Funny thing is that we got more 2handers and polearms than ever even when most ppl are using chainmail or just rags. Where are the shields everyone used in the age of chainmails? Holy shit guys, you only call for realism when its in your interests. And no, im not biased since i play all classes but HA and never gave a shit about what stuff other ppl was using, how powerfull their classes were or any related shit... Salute.

[Overdriven]

I appreciate some of these upkeep debates, but when I log into cRPG, I already see a lot of people using fairly heavy armors and weaponry.  If the upkeep was reduced or diminished, we would only see more and more people wearing higher tier gear most of the time, which isn't good and would just further create a divide between old and new school playerbase.

Well my argument isn't to remove it. Just that many items are poorly balanced in it and need a lot more consideration. I'm not saying reduce it, or increase it, but take a second look at a lot of the costs, breakability and upkeep of items.

[Entaro]

Well my argument isn't to remove it. Just that many items are poorly balanced in it and need a lot more consideration. I'm not saying reduce it, or increase it, but take a second look at a lot of the costs, breakability and upkeep of items.

Well I agree with you there, and with the poster after me, talking about the discrepancy with builds & equipment.  It isn't hard to see that a 2H build is easily the most cost effective in the game right now, giving pretty great power at a bargain price.  Once you start adding in secondary weapons; spears, shields, arrows, horses, etc... it becomes entirely uneconomical, we're agreed on that.

[Trikipum]

I think we're missing the point - that is the game (ideally) revolves around the multiplier.  Winning rounds rewards multiplier, thereby allowing you more income to use more expensive gear.

I appreciate some of these upkeep debates, but when I log into cRPG, I already see a lot of people using fairly heavy armors and weaponry.  If the upkeep was reduced or diminished, we would only see more and more people wearing higher tier gear most of the time, which isn't good and would just further create a divide between old and new school playerbase.

Wait wait, eat some glucose for your brain, read the post again, think about the game again, your logic etc etc and come back....
If any, the upkeep makes a bigger gap between new players and old players.
Let me tell you some things. First, im one of those "old players" you talk about. Just to clarify my point.
Second, let me tell you that only noobs and very bad players are afraid of guys wearing plate armor. Oh fuck man, i wasnt even afraid of them when there weerent limits and i was level 35 and those guys were 45 ....In the old crpg days plate armor was a problem yes. You actually had no wpf limit, no wpf penalty nothing, plate was just advantages. But that is not the case anymore, now, a plate user has a great wpf and speed run penaly that makes him .....lets say "not that good". So yes, in the old crpg, a guy wit 250 wpf and black armor was a problem, surely. But nowadays, the plate armor its just bad, the Wpf we got these days wont go over 170 in most cases (most ppl will stay at 150 or so) so the penalty you get for plate armor doesnt compensate.
Third. think before you talk, since most "old players" actually have tons of money and will have even more money when strategus is finally released so they actually arent affected by the upkeep.. while those new players will have to eat it or sell a heirloom...Understand why your logic is completly flawed?....

[FoopLoop]

I just don't understand why game balance is dictated around gold, just remove it and balance around items and stats why introduce stupid systems to deal with balance when you already have stats on items, just make a linear scale between weight(speed and wpf negative) and armour, i know its not ideal but almost anything would be better then the current lets have gold and markets effect a team deathmatch game.

[Corrado_Decimo]

the upkeep solution was first a bias for the ranged nerf AND the fact that 9 months ago, a lot of people complained about the fact that was boring to see 80% plate dressed players and a good amount of plated chargers everywhere.

so, the point in nerfing the weapons and introducing upkeep, was to force people to not run in transitional all day and not to use only NCS/GLA/german/danish/elegant poleaxe/cataphract/charger 24 hours a day. giving more value instead to those unused mid-tier weapons.

i have no real economic losses with a medium tier armor set, a sword of war and a mallet. unlucky days i lose 2k in 2hours, lucky days i earn 20-30k in 3hours.

people that took gens to farm lordly milanese plates, destriers, elegant poleaxes or flamberges, could exchange them in the market for a same heirloom level but cheaper weapons... example, you can use a Long War Axe instead of the Great Long Axe. you can use a Greatsword instead a German Greatsword... you can use a byrnia instead a coat of plates or transitional...

personally i have a masterwork sword of war, powerful mallet, lordly studded leather over mail, reinforced scale gauntlets. this is mid-high tier gear and i feel good with it.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Well I agree with you there, and with the poster after me, talking about the discrepancy with builds & equipment.  It isn't hard to see that a 2H build is easily the most cost effective in the game right now, giving pretty great power at a bargain price.  Once you start adding in secondary weapons; spears, shields, arrows, horses, etc... it becomes entirely uneconomical, we're agreed on that.

not so true. you must choose between higher tier armor and only one weapon, or medium tier armor, a primary weapon and a backup weapon.

[Entaro]

Well I didn't really go into that part of it, but I do agree with you, just not on the solution so no need to be a dick.  The fact is that the upkeep system is solid (I agree costs need to be changed on different items for different builds to make it more uniform)  What isn't solid, is that there are people that are not beholden to the system because of their inheritance.  Axe their wealth, not the whole system.  Don't agree with you about the plate, but not going to argue with a boss of your likes.

See the flaw in your logic?  Throwing out the only money sink will make the poor richer, but it just makes the rich that much richer and doesn't change much of anything.  Fix don't nix..

not so true. you must choose between higher tier armor and only one weapon, or medium tier armor, a primary weapon and a backup weapon.

I think it's still true if you take a step back and look at it in relation to other classes.  2H Infantry is the most cost effective build.

[Overdriven]

Well I didn't really go into that part of it, but I do agree with you, just not on the solution so no need to be a dick.  The fact is that the upkeep system is solid (I agree costs need to be changed on different items for different builds to make it more uniform)  What isn't solid, is that there are people that are not beholden to the system because of their inheritance.  Axe their wealth, not the whole system.  Don't agree with you about the plate, but not going to argue with a boss of your likes.

See the flaw in your logic?  Throwing out the only money sink will make the poor richer, but it just makes the rich that much richer and doesn't change much of anything.  Fix don't nix..

I think it's still true if you take a step back and look at it in relation to other classes.  2H Infantry is the most cost effective build.

Mmm inheritance tax. The thing that crippled the great estates of England.

I don't think it's fair to rid old players of all their money. They did earn it back in the day. However, I think the problem does lie in the current upkeep.

[hippy_with_a_scimi]

the problem with people always in full plate armor is most of them are in a clan , which banner balance reward them with easy multi , due to teamspeak witchcraft  and good players in general in their crutch armor , its very easy to stay in full plate all the time with 5x  by milking the banner balance ,

                                                         its funny how its NEVER discussed but in the end its the worst balance possible

[Corrado_Decimo]

the problem with people always in full plate armor is most of them are in a clan , which banner balance reward them with easy multi , due to teamspeak witchcraft  and good players in general in their crutch armor , its very easy to stay in full plate all the time with 5x  by milking the banner balance ,

                                                         its funny how its NEVER discussed but in the end its the worst balance possible

i made a thread about banner balance but seems leechers feels good to just put up the banner needed and enjoy the farm.

[Tears of Destiny]

i made a thread about banner balance but seems leechers feels good to just put up the banner needed and enjoy the farm.

Shame on me for wanting to be on the same team as my friends 

[BranStark]

Shame on me for wanting to be on the same team as my friends 

Rolling with your clan map after map after map isn't exactly fair for people who aren't in clans.

Just sayin'

[Tears of Destiny]

Rolling with your clan map after map after map isn't exactly fair for people who aren't in clans.

Just sayin'

*Looks at strat*
*Looks at Bannerpack*
*Looks at bannerbalance being the norm for Official Servers*
*Looks at how often Clans are discussed even on irc or the devs themselves*

Um...

Oh well, that sucks... Join a clan, or go Balbaroth/Carebear style and kick ass by yourself.

I am not in a clan, I do not have a clan tag nor do I use a popular banner (I use the Yellow Bear) and despite being swapped from team to team... I still seem to be doing OK in the long run. I don't see the problem to be perfectly honest.