Why do we even need upkeep anymore?

[Heroin]

I still see plenty of plated chargers roaming around on the NA servers

Really? What NA servers do you play on? Because I rarely EVER see plated chargers these days. I saw a naked person on a plated charger yesterday, and that was the first plated charger I've seen on the NA battle servers in at least a month.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

Interesting thread.

Somebody suggested armor price be increased. If you do that, I will not be able to afford plate armor. I will not be able to buy it, nor will I be able to afford its upkeep. The same goes for many players who haven't been here for fucking forever, and thus do not have large quantities of gold. I am very dissapointed when, after buying some sexy plate armor and a cataphract, I cannot use them, because using them requires much grinding. Grinding which is hard to do as a cavalry player, whereby our FUCKING HORSES ARE BEING BALANCED BY GOLD INSTEAD OF THEIR FUCKING STATS--

Anyway,

I think the "problem" lies in utilizing upkeep as a means of balancing heavy armor with light(er) armor. Currently heavy armor is very expensive, and light armor is cheap. The heavy armor is in every way superior to the light one. Thus, if a player wishes to do better, he will want to purchase heavy armor, not light armor.

Armor does not reflect a player's choice in playing styles, but rather his or her desire to not die quickly. Instead of balancing armor with upkeep, which is unfair to newer players who don't grind constantly, might not armor be balanced as things should normally be balanced: with its stats? Light armor people go fast, heavy armor people go slow. Maybe add wpf penalties.

Ah fuck it ima go play now.

[Classical]

Really? What NA servers do you play on? Because I rarely EVER see plated chargers these days. I saw a naked person on a plated charger yesterday, and that was the first plated charger I've seen on the NA battle servers in at least a month.

The official ones, heh.

Without upkeep, you unleash the Iron Hooves apocalypse and you'll be begging for upkeep to come back.

[Kalam]

I've seen plenty of heavy horses and constant plate users, and I know it's a result of the marketplace and the saving everyone did in the last few months.

Still, I'm not sure what the issues with the upkeep system are. Granted, I've never played a character that's had issues with it (I've played every class except thrower, but I've never used plate regularly) but...as someone mentioned, I think it's part of the balancing issue.

When chadz mentioned builds in the past, he always seemed to favour balanced builds. I think upkeep is designed to encourage that, and for that, it should stay.

[rustyspoon]

A lot of people are saying that we need upkeep for "balance". In my opinion, balancing on gold is the WORST way to balance.

Currently we have a situation where there are a lot of people who are running around with a shit-ton of gold. For these people, they can use whatever equipment they want whenever they want. So, the artificial balance system does not apply to them.

Now if every player simply sold their heirloom point upon retiring, they would have enough gold to completely ignore this "balancing" system also. When you are relying on a system of balance that can be overcome by just an investment of time, it's a bad idea.

Other people say that we need upkeep so we won't be overrun by plate users and plated chargers. We didn't even have that problem before upkeep and even if it was to occur, it's easily solved.

If you have a problem with horses, get some awareness and a sharp, pointy stick. If you have a problem with heavy armor, get a piercing or blunt weapon. As most of us know anyway, heavy armor isn't all that great. Generally I only wear it when I'm being funny, 'cause it slows you down soooo much. I'd like you to tell someone like Beeper that you need armor to be effective.

If a lot of these items were balanced better, the devs wouldn't have to crutch on upkeep anyway. Really the point I keep trying to get at, is this game is supposed to be fun. With every patch we keep getting more and more restrictions on how we can play. It seems that fun isn't the priority any more. Since we have Strategus for our serious playing, why can't we just have a version that's plain old fun?

[Bobthehero]

I'd like you to tell someone like Beeper that you need armor to be effective.

I must say, she needs a helmet, been slashing that pretty face of hers quite often recently

[Trikipum]

Actually, if they want customization back, they should lower drastically all the prices for helmets, boots and gloves. Its just stupid having gloves that are as costly full body armors. They really need to check the stuff's prices and be coherent....

[Beans]

Actually, if they want customization back, they should lower drastically all the prices for helmets, boots and gloves. Its just stupid having gloves that are as costly full body armors. They really need to check the stuff's prices and be coherent....

Gloves give a huge advantage in body armor for minimal weight, that is why they are expensive.

[chadz]

Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.

Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.

Good players adapt, weak players lobby. 

edit:

A lot of people are saying that we need upkeep for "balance". In my opinion, balancing on gold is the WORST way to balance.

Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.

[Tears of Destiny]

Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.

Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.

Good players adapt, weak players lobby. 

I call shinanigans, otherwise there is no way that I would be regularly getting that message that effects my multiplier!

[Classical]

weak players lobby. 

I get it, you're saying he's bad at the game and to deal with it, nice, wink.

[Beans]

Balancing on gold is a cool idea, except for that some people can ignore it completely.

[Vibe]

No upkeep and have everyone running in black armor, no thanks.

[Trikipum]

Upkeep was increased because there is now a way to influence it with personal skill, thus resulting in a higher multiplicator for better players.

Also, we wanted to see lower priced equipment in general.

Good players adapt, weak players lobby. 

edit:Gold is one of many variables in items. Many items are better than what they cost, but the overall stats are weaker. Which is interesting.

You surely will see the average player using lower priced equipment. But then the players who have tons of money arent affected by this "balance" so the system is a big fail and only new players or poor players (like me) get penalized. I cant earn money with 26k of gear. I only ear money if im at least x4 which happens not very frequently these days since the server likes to switch me for some reason. Lost 30k using those 26k of gear and a horse 1 of 10 rounds...New players wont stay with this system for a long time. It actually discorages them to keep playing, coz they already know that even if they get that stuff those richs guys are using... they wont be able to use it...

[Trikipum]

No upkeep and have everyone running in black armor, no thanks.

I dont know where you get that "everyone running in black armor". I remember the old days of crpg and not everyone was wearing "black armor". Indeed there were more ppl wearing light/medium than anything... You guys have a great imagination. And anyway, after the wpf penalty the black armor wasnt that good. Much worse when they nerfed the wpf. I actually prefer some guys using black armor than anything else, since that makes them soo slow. In the old days of crpg, you would want that guy with 250 wpf wearing a black armor. I have a milanesse plate armor since the begining and never used it that much... most ppl just wear what looks good and gives an overall good protection/speed. That is not posible now with the upkeep, you are stuck to "key" items, going higher is just not logic.. and that sucks.