Rumor is it's getting buffed next patch.
I agree throwers got fisted, when they should only have been fingered, in the anus.
I remember raging at throwers, for being able to kill my horsies in one or two hits, and clamoring for a nerf. I think, however, that the issue was not so much with the throwers (though I think they did do way too much damage, but entirely lacked any sort of accuracy, and often resorted to run-and-gunning with throwing axes. hense my rage at random HS's). Rather, it was--and still is--with low horse HP, but high maneuver/speed.
I very much would like to see throwing get buffed a bit. Needs moar standing-still accuracy (worse moving accuracy, though), slightly lower damage, and more ammo per stack. The current wpf requirements and PT shit is not liked by me. Why doth it not like the other weapons? PT is a requirement for higher-tier thrown weapons, and also increases damage, whereas wpf increases accuracy and rate of fire.
Watching Coin & Pebbles throw i wouldn't say throwing is over-nerfed. Learn to play and stop crying, noobs.That's pretty much my attitude no matter what type of character I play. I have an agility thrower and a strength thrower. I do well with both. Balance is necessary to make the playing field as 'level' as possible but at that point it's up to the players to decide how to 'win' with individual skill & tactics. It shouldn't be easy for any 1 type of character. Skill should be the deciding factor. As I talked about in the main throwing thread throwing is pretty ok with me. Maybe some things here or there could be buffed slightly but it needs to be done VERY CAREFULLY because the best players will be even more deadly and I'm not sure what the threshold is for whining to re-commence. And I can't stand whining.
The answer is "Yes, we could."evidently you dont know what your doing
But it's getting buffed next item patch because it was evidently overnerfed.
... Not only that, but the light crossbow becomes a machine gun with high wpf and it still does similar damage to a dedicated thrower. Light crossbows will even out damage the most commonly and probably best potential damage per loadout throwing weapon, the heavy throwing axes.
...
Hmm, depending on my wpf i have needed from 5.5 to 6 seconds to fire a bolt and reload the next one, not that fast.
At the same time there is no reloading with throwing weapons.
Anyway, i think the main issue is the pure throwing option.
Hybrids are fine in my opinion, well except for the 2 slot javalins, jarids etc.
Just hurl your stuff at the enemies and wound them before you enter the melee zone.
Fulltime throwers are another story, they get no real profit out of thier high investment. But maybe they are just gimped build ideas like pure agi characters.
I dont know what this is all about. Im a thrower and archers keep headshooting me and spamming me with arrows from farther away than I can hit. Perhaps people here dont know that archery, unlike throwing has enough ammo to kill 10+ people, and is accurate at much farther ranges, and fires nearly as fast, and does nearly as much damage.
Watching Coin & Pebbles throw i wouldn't say throwing is over-nerfed. Learn to play and stop crying, noobs.
The level of whine between Native and Jacob has reached critical mass.
I am simply giving my less biased views on the situation. I say less biased because I have tried pretty much every build there is, but I'm still a little biased because pure throwing is one of the easiest playstyle's ever imo. Perhaps you should try playing a build which requires skill before bashing other people on the forums. Even archery would be a skill-based improvement.
*I can throw that sentance right back at you and it's just as true*
Amusingly as of last night I saw him playing a lowbie archer using a long bow on NA 80 man Siege.
the light crossbow becomes a machine gun with high wpf and it still does similar damage to a dedicated thrower.What about if you have high powerthrow?
Anyone who thinks that throwing doesn't need some sort of buff is completely nuts. I completely fail to see how giving a dedicated thrower similar potential damage per loadout to a crossbow user or archer makes them overpowered.I think the devs should run some number calculations (if they haven't already) and tally up theoretical total damage potential of a pure strength thrower and crossbowman and archer. But that's not the whole equation because each style has different advantages and drawbacks which affect balance too.
Assuming you completely neglect a melee weapon you can take 32 throwing daggers for pitifully low cut damage, 16 war darts for pitifully low pierce damage, 8 heavy throwing axes for good cut damage, 8 throwing spears for good pierce damage, or 2 throwing lances for amazing pierce damage. Compare this to the same situation with bows and crossbows where an archer can take 45 (neglecting heirlooms) arrows for good cut damage or 30 arrows for good pierce damage or really good cut damage and a crossbowman can take the same numbers respectively.So let's say throwers were given 45 francescas.....30 javelins etc. That would be ridiculously overpowered. Throwers would dominate (half or more) of the other team. It would be ridiculous.
Why is anyone still arguing about this? There was even a public poll that over 1000 players voted on, and even with most people casting biased votes, the most agreed upon option overall was that throwing was made terrible and that it should be made good again.
I honestly don't understand everyone's attitudes. This isn't some dick waving sub forum, it's for legitimate discussion about game balance.
SpeedyBanana, there is already a regular thread for throwing balance discussion, as well as another thread almost Identical to this one. Starting threads like these just makes us look like whiners and doesn't help any. If you really want to get the proper changes to throwing made, this is the worst thing you can do.
Fasader, common man. I don't know you, but please tell me you're better then that. Sure Native called you out, but you're supposed to be on the dev team. There's a lot of players here who would really like to see someone higher up discussing this seriously. The outright negative sarcasm gives your entire team a bad image. Arguably not a big deal since this is just an unofficial mod, but I imagine that chadz wants to keep people playing, and donating, so professionalism really couldn't hurt once in a while.
Overall, there is very little faith in the game balancing team. Everyone I speak with makes jokes about cRPGs patches. Things like "the devs just throw darts at a board to decide what to nerf" or "Whatever two handers whine about the most". There's dozens more. I'd like to imagine those jokes are unfounded but I've been trying for weeks to get any dev to come discuss the throwing problem seriously, and I've all but given up. There may not be many players who know what they're talking about, but some actual civil discussion could go a long way. No muscle flexing. No dick waving. Discussion.
Can we give that a shot? :(
You are kidding right? Ccoin is a hybrid and pebble is one of the worst players ive ever seen, ive never seen him with a positive score and he often tk's his own team. Wouldnt mind if was good at stoning people but....... :rolleyes:
In my opinion throwing should just use throwing wpf when used in melee.
Then adjust their melee damage that all of them are worse then same weapons in 1h/2h/pole.
You get the ability to fight with your throwing weapons with good wpf and are able to throw them with no need to points in other groups.
You should still need powerstrike.
You're right, I should give all throwing weapons +10 ammo, +50 damage and +100 accuracy just so you could finally kill people.No, just try to do your job. sad that you have to joke about over buffing it, when you already showed you dont know what your doing by over nerffing it. If i didnt know better i would say your a bad dev
Oh and of course, they will have explosive ammo, something like Al_Adin's staff.
No, just try to do your job. sad that you have to joke about over buffing it, when you already showed you dont know what your doing by over nerffing it. If i didnt know better i would say your a bad dev
Native and Jacob, with their vagina's combined they are CAPTAIN bundle of sticks! *Insert theme music here*
But seriously, you two really do just sound like a pair of butt-hurt toddlers at this point. The level of whine in this thread is insane.
did one of your kids hijack your computer? I'm having a hard time picturing a 30 year old writing something as immature at this.
Yes indeed. I am but a poor child banging away at the keys. Why, are you cruising the net for a date?
Yes indeed. I am but a poor child banging away at the keys. Why, are you cruising the net for a date?
IT IS A TRAP FROM THE FBI DO NOT RESPOND! He is really a team of Special Agents...
Well yeah, if having 153 wpf in throwing is a hybrid then I'm probably kidding. Also, Coin was probably just lucky with all those throwing axes each time i spectated him or saw him killing someone down in the casualties report, he headshots and 1-shots so many people with nothing but luck & experience in throwing.
As for Pebble - he doesn't suck at all actually, the only reason he gets bad scores is because he doesn't really play too serious, often wonders alone in his blue shirt and pants with no melee weapon equipped and spams rocks. If he took a little more serious approach he'd surely be up there with Coin but he prefers being useless and having fun, nothing wrong with that.
Oh yeah - and could we get Throwing Lances to be a 2-slot item, with an ammo of 2 instead of 1? Back when you could heirloom it up to 3, having just 2 in a stack was fine because at least you knew in the future that you had another coming.
^So in other words you are a vulture, picking off the unobservant and dying? Hey thats not a bad idea, shame every other style of play can do the same. :lol:
fixed this for you. And for the record, throwing lances did more damage than crossbows because they beenfit from PT
It takes 9+ PT (closer to 10 iirc) to equal an arbalest with steel bolts. That's 27 str, 9 points in PT, and 9*14+ points in wpf (+ because of armor reduction). So someone who spends nearly all of their points on throwing and wears basically no armor can throw a grand total of two lances that do the same damage as someone who sacrificed 0 points, still has room for a 1 slot melee weapon with 12 shots or has a 0 slot melee weapon with 24 shots. If someone chooses to do so, they can also put a lot of wpf into crossbows to make them more accurate than anything else in the game and reload at a very respectable rate.
Having 153 throwing wpf doesnt make him a pure thrower, it's the weapons you use not the stats you have that make you what you are, he used to use just heavy axes, but these days ive seen him a few times spawning with a melee weapon. At least when it comes to throwing, other things are more debatable. Also heavy throwing axes are piss easy to use.
As for pebble it's going to be a lets agree to disagree stance, the man is just an awful waste of space on a team or in the game, I hate seeing him play, he's just fucking poor, all he does is annoy people. He's like a gorath with throwing, except he trolls in game.
Face it gnjus you would like all throwers to be pebble, just irritating, easily killed, wastes of space. But you are a shielder you shouldnt even have problems with throwing.
If having a 153 wpf in throwing and (most of the time) spawning with nothing but throwing axes doesn't make him a pure thrower then i really cant think of anything that could ever make him one.
Again: yes, Pebbles us useless but only because he chooses to be, if he played a bit more serious he'd be far from useless but that is his own freedom of choice, correct ? The thing he plays like that doesn't make all the dedicated throwers with a bit more serious approach THAT bad, its just him and his trolling approach. If he actually cared he would easily be the good old Pebbles we all know.
Last but not the least: the bolded part - I don't know why you imply that i would like something or not, its not about me, we are talking about throwing here. Pebbles is useless cause he wants to be but all people who are whining and crying about throwing here are useless cause they just plain suck and they cant do anything about it so they want throwing buffed as it was.
Throwing atm is much more realistic and balanced then ever before. Go check Vikingr, there you get 2 axes or 2 javelins, you don't get to carry 12 axes/spears/javelins/darts/whatever, with a secondary mod so you can kick some additional asses with your last weapon. That's how it should be, throwing weapons were mostly secondary, used as line & shield breakers. Throwers were never a one-man-armies like in cRPG before the last patch.
Power throw is currently at 10% damage increase per level. Throwing lances deal 56p when thrown. Steel bolts+ Arbalest deal 87 damage right off the bat. This means that the arbalest deals 55% more damage than throwing lances before skills are factored in. Once you factor in wpf, and PT requirement, throwing lances deal more damage on equip than the arbalest.
I agree 100% that its bullshit that a weapon as strong as the Arbalest can be used with no weapon investment, and that the overall accuracy of xbows is ridiculously high. I also agree that crossbows as a whole are much more overpowered than throwing ever was... But throwing lances do deal more damage than an arbalest.This is coming from someone who uses a crossbow hybrid and one of those lame-ass shot gunners with 0 wpf in xbow. Yes. I'm THAT GUY. Commence tomato slinging now.
Let's assume a reasonable build of PT7 and sufficient wpf to cover the requirements (somewhere around 100-110). This is a crapload of points to invest and wpf really doesn't add a ton of damage to the weapon if the calculation for melee is similar to throwing (roughly 100 wpf required just to get the full damage from the weapon). PT 7 = +70% damage. 56*1.7=95.2, which you're right, does more damage than the stock arbalest. But now let's look at heirlooms.
Lances: 60*1.7=102
Arbalest: 87+13=100
That's pretty damn close, also 95 and 87 aren't too far off to begin with. Consider the fact that the arbalest gets 10-15x more ammo per loadout and requires 0 point investment and it becomes blatantly obvious, unless you are a moron, that something is wrong with crossbows, throwing, or both. Why in the hell are people afraid of throwing lances doing a ton of damage when the arbalest does basically the EXACT same damage. If you see throwing lances coming at you, you can be sure that they have a very watered down build when it comes to melee, and if they throw 2 at you, they are completely unarmed except for a 0 slot hammer.
your numbers are still off. You didn't factor in WPF
I buy your argument, but throwing lances still have higher point-blank damage than arbalests.
You forgot 6 loom points and that the lances are getting removed.
You forgot 6 loom points and that the lances are getting removed.
You forgot 6 loom points and that the lances are getting removed.you could always just lower the throw damg, and up the melee for it like you guys have befor
It would help if suggestions weren't "I want to have 16 ammo axes/javs/whatever".i cant stop form people posting random thoughts, but there are a few of us that are trying to help.
I played a 10 PT lance thrower for a generation and it was kind of silly 1-2 shotting anything, Paul has some thrower too iirc. So, yes, devs have thrower builds.
It would help if suggestions weren't "I want to have 16 ammo axes/javs/whatever".
I played a 10 PT lance thrower for a generation and it was kind of silly 1-2 shotting anything, Paul has some thrower too iirc. So, yes, devs have thrower builds.
I did factor in wpf.
It would help if suggestions weren't "I want to have 16 ammo axes/javs/whatever"
It's not 14 wpf per point in PT anymore. A PT 10 thrower is perfectly possible at level 30. I have a level 25 pure thrower with 9 PT + 123 throwing wpf and I don't get the PT reduced message when I'm playing in light armor.
I only read up to the second page and a developer said they were implementing changes next patch
stop arguing nerds
You forgot 6 loom points and that the lances are getting removed.
It's not 14 wpf per point in PT anymore. A PT 10 thrower is perfectly possible at level 30. I have a level 25 pure thrower with 9 PT + 123 throwing wpf and I don't get the PT reduced message when I'm playing in light armor.the point is throwers have to do alot to throw at avg damg. I am 100% sure your throwing build is unplayable by most people, and you are useless in battle, strat,and in segie.
I made a pure strength thrower and I definitely think throwers should have 1 shot kill capability if enough pt is invested plus using throwing lances. Though if lances are to be removed I guess that ability will be mostly gone except for weaker foes. A long fairly heavy spear/lance should be capable of one shotting. Melee can one hit so why not throwers? Throwers have limited chances too unlike melee. As far as the 'proficiency is too low' I really don't know what that affects exactly other than accuracy (damage too?). The accuracy penalty is fine with me but if it's also damage reduction too I don't agree with that.
It's PT*10 now, AFAIK. It's definitely possible, and you can wear some armour as well.
Firstly, 4 axes per slot would not be ridiculous.
It would be just as rediculous as sheathing a pike in your back pocket. Or carrying a danish greatsword + great axe + morning star + barmace on your 2her. Or a great lance + heavy lance + shield + 1her on your cav.
Carrying 16 throwing axes in your ass to smuggle them across the border huh? Nope, can't see it. It's just silly and stupid.
I hate to break it to you, but even though video games are your life, it doesn't mean that they should be based entirely around realism.I hate to break it to you, but the game was already modified with the slot system and unsheathable tags in order to avoid this silliness that you propose because in this case, realism = good model for the game.
I hate to break it to you, but the game was already modified with the slot system and unsheathable tags in order to avoid this silliness that you propose because in this case, realism = good model for the game.
Throwing should apply just like all the melee weapons do. I can't carry 4 2h'd weapons, sheath a pike or carry 3 scrubscarl shields + a bastard sword. You can't carry 16 throwing axes. Both ideas are silly and should be prevented like the devs have done already.
The dunce cap has, and will remain, firmly upon your own head.
:rolleyes:
There shouldn't be gravity, horses should fly, and everyone should breath fire every time they whistle.*
+1. I'd totally play that. Fire Breathing Space Knights ftw.
Throwing is a supplementary weapon
A str melee build for instance has no such restriction for getting powerstrike, making high strength melee fighters 1 hit kill machines with little drawback, and full option to split into other skills and wear as much armor as needed. That's fine. The higher level you get the more you should be able to diversify and be overall more effective. They can even go above PS 10 since the cap was raised somewhere around 15-16. More points = better is how it should be.
Throwing has been assigned a limiting system which requires agi, even though unlike archery, it's related skills are all strength based. That's the major problem. The more you strive for high level throwing, the more you handicap your character, unlike every other build which gets better with more investment. That's the problem that needs to be fixed. Right now with throwing, More points =/= better. The more points you put in, the more you are fighting against tricky and unexplained limiting systems that do not follow the same mechanics as the rest of the game. That's what needs to change more then anything.
It would be nice if wpf had more of an impact on throwing accuracy. Stack size could use the smallest of increases. There is a bigger problem though. Throwing is strength based. An agility based limiting system does not work for it, like it does for archery. That is the biggest problem.
Throwing is OP.
Throwing is OP.
What?! IT IS?!?! My god, we have to stop it before it can harm 2 handers![sarcasm]I agree. 2 handers spend all this money on armor + weapons and then some scrubby peasant wearing rags lands a spear in their head! It's not 'FAIR'! 2h should be autowin against all ranged. I mean that's what swords were good at historically is blocking projectiles. [/sarcasm]
[sarcasm]I agree. 2 handers spend all this money on armor + weapons and then some scrubby peasant wearing rags lands a spear in their head! It's not 'FAIR'! 2h should be autowin against all ranged. I mean that's what swords were good at historically is blocking projectiles. [/sarcasm]
Addressing the title of the thread, I have some suggestions:
-Reduce number of projectiles in a stack. 2 Throwing Axes should be reduced to 1.
-Add higher WPP requirements (120 to use daggers is a good start)
-Increase number of slots (Lances and spears = 4, Throwing Axes/Javelins/Jarids = 3, Throwing Stars/Knives = 2).
-Increase price- no throwing item should be under 10k.
This should all help to make throwing more useless. Thank you.
L2Melee.I know you are joking but I do actually know how to melee quite well. Believe it or not some of us can play something other than melee and enjoy the game in different ways by adding more variety. I'm tired of the endless whining about ranged. Do we hear endless whining about 2h/pole users cutting through foes like a scythe through wheat? I will say this: L2play/quit whining. Have any of you ever played any older games like the original unreal tournament for example? That game was ALL about SKILL and whiny noobs either got good or left. There was not this endless in game whining of 'Ohh thiz is OP remove/nerf crap' In fact I can't even remember ANY whining now that I think back. I guess nowdays many players prefer to take the EASY route and whine for eternity instead of to actually become skilled and adapt. Quit whining. L2adapt.
Have any of you ever played any older games like the original unreal tournament for example?
Dedicated throwers are still fucking scary if you ask me... "Pebble Pusher" anyone? He makes me flee these days when throwing is supposed to be nerfed beyond oblivion. The fact that someone would want a person like that buffed is beyond my comprehension.That rock thrower definitely caught my attention, I have no idea how many tincans got stoned to death by him, lol.
That rock thrower definitely caught my attention, I have no idea how many tincans got stoned to death by him, lol.
Ironic that the entire point that's been made in the thread was that all of the ranged guys are trying to play an FPS rather than enjoy the ONLY melee combat game out, and then you use a FPS to make your point. :mrgreen:
Which begs the question: Why the fuck don't all the ranged go play a goddamned proper FPS rather than playing an FPS where half the people don't have a gun to shoot back.... owait, easy targets.
*Whoops, my bad. Thought this was the "We're back at counterstrike medieval" thread. lol*
Why would someone who is so biased towards their spec (melee) want to completely remove all forms of ranged combat of which he cannot participate in? This is a new and exciting argument that I have never seen before in my entire life. It's like if a guy can't hit a curve ball, he wants to get it banned from MLB, amazing. I'm surprised this type of argument has never been made before.
Go play Quake/CS/MoH/CoD/Halo/UT/TF2/etc etc etc etc ffs then? No?
Oh yeah, because there everyone can shoot back at you instead of being helpless as they try to cross the field hiding behind a shield or running zig zags with a melee weapon.
Btw, that's the most fail analogy I've ever heard from a non-lljk member. Though it's expected from them and excusable. In this case it's just shameful.
I agree throwing was overnerfed, BUT let's not forget what dedicated throwing is like:
They're the HA of the ground, dedicated kiters who have the potential (see: buff) of great cav defence/great damage (javelins), or great amounts of ammo/accuracy (knives/stones). My oppinion (as I play dedicated pole) may be biased, but a server full of those... (countered by friendly archers mind you) Not so much fun.
IMO (sorry Cheap_Shot), throwing and xbows need to switch roles abit. I would like to see throwing being a cheap, easy to use, very low ammo backup weapon for infantry who wants abit of effective cav defence/extra dmg on 2h or poles/ranged shieldbreaking/chance of lucky HS. (While giving xbows some more restrictions, but that's another thread)
Chasing/shooting running throwers does not sound like fun gameplay tbh.
I'm not saying throwing should not be buffed... Idd it got hit too hard by the nerfbat, I just feel like the community should think twice before deciding that dedicated throwing should be fotm^^
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They're the HA of the ground, dedicated kiters who have the potential (see: buff) of great cav defence/great damage (javelins),
Try pressing "x", it's cool.
Btw, that's the most fail analogy I've ever heard from a non-lljk member. Though it's expected from them and excusable. In this case it's just shameful.
I agree throwing was overnerfed, BUT let's not forget what dedicated throwing is like:
They're the HA of the ground, dedicated kiters who have the potential (see: buff) of great cav defence/great damage (javelins), or great amounts of ammo/accuracy (knives/stones). My oppinion (as I play dedicated pole) may be biased, but a server full of those... (countered by friendly archers mind you) Not so much fun.
That's kind of out of nowhere. Way to lash out at an entire group, and randomly. At least when you slander homosexuals, you manage to tie it into whatever you're saying.
11 blunt, even with 10 PT, doesn't do enough damage to hurt tincans unless it's a headshot. In which case it does like 2-3 damage tops.
He recently announced he just reached masterwork stones, that is 15 blunt :shock:.
Ironic that the entire point that's been made in the thread was that all of the ranged guys are trying to play an FPS rather than enjoy the ONLY melee combat game out, and then you use a FPS to make your point. :mrgreen:It has little to do with ranged weapons or not. The point is that in that game all weapons were pretty much deadly when used skillfully. AS should be in THIS game/mod. However the melee lobbyists want everything else to conform AROUND them rather than have everything be viable.
Which begs the question: Why the fuck don't all the ranged go play a goddamned proper FPS rather than playing an FPS where half the people don't have a gun to shoot back.... owait, easy targets.
*Whoops, my bad. Thought this was the "We're back at counterstrike medieval" thread. lol*
Go play Quake/CS/MoH/CoD/Halo/UT/TF2/etc etc etc etc ffs then? No?'Helpless'? lol Do you wear good armor with some IF? Guess who's helpless once they miss their target with their limited ammo? Throwers. That's the 'game' They miss they usually die.
Oh yeah, because there everyone can shoot back at you instead of being helpless as they try to cross the field hiding behind a shield or running zig zags with a melee weapon.
It has little to do with ranged weapons or not. The point is that in that game all weapons were pretty much deadly when used skillfully. AS should be in THIS game/mod. However the melee lobbyists want everything else to conform AROUND them rather than have everything be viable.
'Helpless'? lol Do you wear good armor with some IF? Guess who's helpless once they miss their target with their limited ammo? Throwers. That's the 'game' They miss they usually die.
Here; want instructions on how to deal with throwers since it seems they are so unbearably difficult to handle and tear inducing? If you are being attacked by one sidestep until the thrower runs out of ammo or chooses another target. After he's out of ammo he's pretty much dead anyway. Oh yeah also if you have heavier armor + high IF you can pretty much ignore most throwers throwing knives, darts etc and maybe even more powerful weaps (haven't tested to be sure). Also simply stay out of effective range whenever possible (is someone forcing you to close in on throwers?) and let your own ranged or shielders deal with them (there's an idea!). If you have to go up a ladder (as in siege) accept that you might get killed by throwing weaps, arrows, bolts and oh yeah MELEE too.
The irony is that gorath wears decent armor and has a shield. He really has no reason to complain about throwers.
The larger irony is that I've said before that it's not about effectiveness vs ranged players, but a general disdain of the bundle of sticksry of it's nature.
Again: I can play a game of football just fine.
I can play a game of football while some bundle of sticks is flicking pennies at me and yelling "LALALLALALKDJLKJSDKGJLKSDJGKLDSJGLKSJGDLKDJ" at the top of his lungs too. Just because I can still accomplish my goal doesn't mean I don't dislike that fuckwit and want to bitchslap his dumb ass at the same time.
You sound like a whiny baby that is mad that everyone else doesn't want to play his way.
You sound like a whiny baby that is mad that everyone else doesn't want to play his way.
Dealy throwing combination:
3 Throwers with the following build:
30/9
7 IF, 10 PT, 3 Ath and 3 WM.
Just under 140 wpf in throwing
Weapon of choice:
Throwing rocks.
Works against archers and melee alike. Too bad it takes about 5 hits to kill an archer in a leather jerkin and A LOT of hits to kill anyone in mail armour.
Also one disadvantage: You need to keep hitting your target to stun him every time and chip away his hp until he drops. 1 missed throw could mean the death of all of the throwers.
Pro:
Upkeep isn't that bad, since you need to wear less than 7 kg in weight from armour and rocks aren't that expensive :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:The way you said that dosent sound good at all, as if the dev dont care about the people who play the game.
I think I'll just take the same stance on posting in/reading this forum section as the rest of the balancing team.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I think I'll just take the same stance on posting in/reading this forum section as the rest of the balancing team.
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poor jacob ban for talking about how to help the game...
I would also put all my trust in one screenshot from the banned person. :lol:i know what you mean but is it ok for some one with power to be a dick? when am admining on the severs, i have to act grown. i cant abuse my power because then Not only am i a dick but i make the rest of the admins look bad.
I'm not familiar with the story of the ban, but I would take that one with a pinch of salt. Having said that, throwing will get buffed according to cmp. Wait in excitement, guys.
That seems to be working out really well. Good thing I'm not playing crpg as much anymore or I might be more angry. You were my only hope for the balancing team, but it seems like fasatard has rubbed off on you. I don't know how this balancing team was formed/elected/chosen, but except for the slot system, they have only made the game worse. I was already banned from IRC for voicing my opinions on how poor the balancing team is at doing their jobs (specifically fasaderp) and if voicing my opinion here does the same, so be it.
Here are some more confidence inspiring comments from the balancing team:(click to show/hide)
I wholeheartedly agree with this comment and propose immediate sacking of the current "balancing" team (Fasader, Shik, Urist) and installing a new one, made of renown and respected names like: Team_Jacob, Tears of Destiny and Tzar. Can someone add a poll on this ?
I wholeheartedly agree with this comment and propose immediate sacking of the current "balancing" team (Fasader, Shik, Urist) and installing a new one, made of renown and respected names like: Team_Jacob, Tears of Destiny and Tzar. Can someone add a poll on this ?
I wholeheartedly agree with this comment and propose immediate sacking of the current "balancing" team (Fasader, Shik, Urist) and installing a new one, made of renown and respected names like: Team_Jacob, Tears of Destiny and Tzar. Can someone add a poll on this ?
Btw has anyone noticed the initials of the current "balancing" team ? S(hit), F(assaderp), U(rine). All they need is a T to form the STFU team. Any of the 3 recommended guys will do.
Sweet, then we can all finally play CoD... owait :evil:
Eh, if put in charge I would actually give a nerf to some aspects of range, but that is just me. Crossbows still bug the hell out of me for how easy they are to use.
I would nerf the bajeezus out of 0 wpf crossbows, but give a slight reload time buff to high wpf crossbow users.
I would make the warbow pierce again because the slot system already balances it out. An archer could take 3 stacks of arrows and a strong or 2 stacks and a warbow. The longbow would still do more damage and have a faster projectile, but the warbow would be like it used to be.
I would double, possibly triple, the amount of throwing ammo for most throwing weapons (mainly the high end ones).
I would reduce the wpf requirement of throwing to somewhere around 10 (whatever it takes for someone in decent armor with 6 PT to only need 75-80 wpf in throwing and to make PT 8-9 with medium armor possible again)
I would reduce the turning ability on all horses slightly to counteract champion horses being able to turn on a dime.
I would make most shields 0 slot items except for the huscarl and steel, which would be 1 slot items.
The iron staff would get a slight speed and damage buff.
Other than that, I would just do a few minor tweaks on certain weapons to get more flavor in the game (hello Danish, Bec, and Steel Pick).
I would nerf the bajeezus out of 0 wpf crossbows, but give a slight reload time buff to high wpf crossbow users.
I would make the warbow pierce again because the slot system already balances it out. An archer could take 3 stacks of arrows and a strong or 2 stacks and a warbow. The longbow would still do more damage and have a faster projectile, but the warbow would be like it used to be.
I would double, possibly triple, the amount of throwing ammo for most throwing weapons (mainly the high end ones).
I would reduce the wpf requirement of throwing to somewhere around 10 (whatever it takes for someone in decent armor with 6 PT to only need 75-80 wpf in throwing and to make PT 8-9 with medium armor possible again)
I would reduce the turning ability on all horses slightly to counteract champion horses being able to turn on a dime.
I would make most shields 0 slot items except for the huscarl and steel, which would be 1 slot items.
The iron staff would get a slight speed and damage buff.
Other than that, I would just do a few minor tweaks on certain weapons to get more flavor in the game (hello Danish, Bec, and Steel Pick).
Agreed, IF xbow heirlooms are also nerfed, mw arbalest + mw steel bolts are just "WTF"
I see no reason, maybe a slight buff for the warbow can be justified, but this is not the way.
No way! Throwing was overnerfed I agree, but tripple ammo stacks? O.o Do you wanna get kited to no end by ppl with 24 frippin' throwing spears?
Yeah because pt 9 hybrids brutalizing anyone without a shield is balanced... That is the state of native now, everyone carries either op throwing or a op bow. Ever tried dedicated 2h there? Hell I tell you.
Agreed, much needed.
What, why? Do you wanna make throwing op and to "balance" that make everyone a shielder?
Err... Why? It is already a top-teir duelling pole.
Danish is fine, othr 2h need a slight buff. Bec is overrated imo, it is super-short, easy to block (even though fast) and a much-needed tincan opener. Steel Pick might be considered a little bit too much, but the real issue with onehanders are the uber-broken schims. Srsly, I'm standing in the duel server as I'm writing this, and 25% of the ppl in here are shielders, and they're all using curved weapons. Fix please!
Agreed, IF xbow heirlooms are also nerfed, mw arbalest + mw steel bolts are just "WTF"
Yarr
I see no reason, maybe a slight buff for the warbow can be justified, but this is not the way.
Because pretty much everyone uses the shortbow because the longbow just sucks.
No way! Throwing was overnerfed I agree, but tripple ammo stacks? O.o Do you wanna get kited to no end by ppl with 24 frippin' throwing spears?
I said double or triple. Throwing lances would be triple to bring them up to 6 instead of 2. I'd probably give around 12 Jarids and 18 throwing spears.
Yeah because pt 9 hybrids brutalizing anyone without a shield is balanced... That is the state of native now, everyone carries either op throwing or a op bow. Ever tried dedicated 2h there? Hell I tell you.
You can't hybrid with PT 9, even if the wpf requirement is drastically lowered. If the wpf requirement is lowered, you MIGHT be able to hybrid if you wear 7 weight or less armor. In which case, there's no reason to complain, because they would get destroyed in one hit or by archers. My intention is to make it so someone can go PT8-9 with medium armor and all wpf in throwing, PT5-7 hybrid with medium to heavy armor, and PT7-8 hybrid with light armor. I'd have to crunch the numbers, but I don't think 10 wpf per PT sounds unreasonable.
Agreed, much needed.
Yarr.
What, why? Do you wanna make throwing op and to "balance" that make everyone a shielder?
This is mainly so that cavalry can use a shield again without sacrificing a slot, throwers can use shields again, and if infantry want to use shields again, they can without sacrificing their pikes/whatever else.
Err... Why? It is already a top-teir duelling pole.
Because it is too slow for how much damage it does. You might as well use a long hafted spiked mace. One of the biggest reasons to use the iron staff was that it was a fast blunt weapon that knocked down decently. It doesn't do enough damage right now IMO. When you have axes that do 40+ cut and are nearly as fast as the iron staff, there is no reason to use the iron staff. Basically, I want to see more diversity, not just long war axe and bec spam.
Danish is fine, othr 2h need a slight buff. Bec is overrated imo, it is super-short, easy to block (even though fast) and a much-needed tincan opener. Steel Pick might be considered a little bit too much, but the real issue with onehanders are the uber-broken schims. Srsly, I'm standing in the duel server as I'm writing this, and 25% of the ppl in here are shielders, and they're all using curved weapons. Fix please!
I wouldn't say 2h needs a buff. They already have range advantage over polearms, which seems silly to me. That reminds me, I'd also remove polearm stun. Shields would be fine if there were more throwers around to break them.
Gorath - I've been playing CRPG with you for a long time and I think you've got a good understanding of the mod's settings, but I'm just not sure what the point you're making is because of all the arguing going on. Could you sum-up what the problem you see with the suggestions here is? I'm sure that people could understand your side of the argument if it were made clearer. :) If you don't mind me asking you a specific question, could you please explain what it is about throwing that's more frustrating to you than archery?
I always thought that the purpose of high-tier throwing weapons and dedicated (or at least heavy) throwers was to counter the high-armor, high-IF, low-agi tincans, who would be slow and vulnerable. Do you think that's not how it should work?
Just trying to understand all sides here. 8-)
p.s. love your signature picture
It's really simple.
Most kiteable ranged weapons: Archery (throwing requires too much str to have high athletics)
Most versatile ranged weapons: Crossbow (shield piercing, high pierce damage, high ammo, no wpf requirement, extremely accurate with wpf, etc)
Most capable of surviving melee: Crossbow (actually has melee wpf and high PS)
Fixed.
pleb pleb blah blah blah ignoring logic and splooging out drivel
THROWING MUST FOLLOW THE SAME LOGIC WHICH MEANS NO HIDING 8 LANCES UP YOUR ASS.
I obviously didn't read the post and didn't address any of the points made. I am a dumbass who doesn't know how to have a logical argument. My IQ is half my age, may God have mercy on my soul.
A little recap on what the current plan is: the wpf per PT penalty is being lowered, the accuracy of weapons will be increased, and all weapons will become 1 slot, and some 1 slot weapons will have their ammo increased by a bit.
Also make throwing spears about 40 units longer. kthx
As far as accuracy while moving goes, I'm afraid that is unchangeable as of now. As far as the redundant items go, unfortunately we cannot do much about that either. The rock nerf idea surely, was a joke by Urist, not meant to be taken seriously. I like your idea about the windup speed, it certainly could be raised on some of the weapons.
A little recap on what the current plan is: the wpf per PT penalty is being lowered, the accuracy of weapons will be increased, and all weapons will become 1 slot, and some 1 slot weapons will have their ammo increased by a bit.
Anyways, after playing an agility based throwing type character for a bit, my main observations are mostly that the weapons are a good bit too inaccurate, especially when moving. Damage is also rather bad, but the upside is that I am in fact able to kite and evade my enemies decently. The other day I did also see a thrower character named 'veteran' top the scoreboards for a round or two. The ideal current way to play a thrower at the moment based on my experiences is to assist someone in a fight by chucking something into a distracted foe, so I think the best way to bolster this is to give throwing weapons more precision at close ranges.
In the current patch, you need 14 wpf per point in power throw, after armor encumbrance reduction, in order to have enough wpf. If you do not have enough wpf after encumbrance, your power throw is reduced. For instance
Nope, 13 wpf / PT.Ahh, I see, so it means that armor will effectively lower both wpf AND PT to match it.
I think we should just remove throwing, then over time the problem will go away and very few will give a shit, this whole rigmaroll is giving me a migraine.
And about throwing melee tendencies... You have to remember that anyone who carries a ranged weapon will always hesitate to go into melee against someone who doesn't, unless that person is choosing to ignore their advantage (which is rare), this will always stay true. Also, if two people are carrying roughly equally powerful ranged arsenals, and roughly equal defenses (shields) there's little sense in switching to melee for any of them. (As you will be disadvantaged in melee from the damage of the other persons' ranged weaponry, or you might just not get to melee at all).
This is why I'm abit worried about the upcoming throwing buff. I do have faith in the balance team that they will try to balance it as good as possible, but if throwing is returned to a level of effectiveness where everyone not dedicated ranged or cav is carrying a couple of stacks (which was the case pre-patch, and those spears/lances/whatever hurt ALOT), we are going to se a HUGE decline in the amount of melee battles actually happening on the battlefields. And a large increase in shielders, since those are going to be the guys that actually get to the melee brawl.
And how does agi vs str fit into this? from my pov this is going to be a huge str buff since PT is what any thrower wants to stack, while hp/armor is your main defence. Not to mention that str is already very powerful. shielders might want to stack abit more agi due to shield hp/coverage, but that is already the case.
Good idea, lets do the same for crossbows, horse archers, crushthrough, tincans, twohanders, heirlooms, generations, levels and anything else which can might possibly have ever been complained about.
Throwing lance isn't removed. It might get a new model, that's all.if this is true i will master work mine :mrgreen:
Hah yeah, the double sided lance is an ugly piece of work at the best of times.
single slot for low lvl throwing weapons is fine.
But for throwing spears throwing lances and jards they should be 2 slot.
They can do some nasty dmg and take down cav quickly having more ammo would make them great for throwing builds and the 2 slots won't be a problem. but 2 slots for a hybrid build will cause lot's of problems if they want more ammo And that's balanced.
id like to see an ammo/ acc increase but let's not get crazy here.(also improve the melee stats for the throwing lance so i can be more epic plz)
Just my 2 cents as a dedicated thrower.
But let's ignore that a club at the same PS as I have PT would kill them in two swings as opposed to my four stones, yeah let's focus on disbelief and the DAMAGE that it did.
That rock can be blocked, dodged, and taken cover from, just like the club. Remember WHY melee weaponry is bitched about when it does damage superior to ranged. It can't be blocked (except by a melee weapon or shield), can't be chambered (because that's nearly impossible in CRPG) and can't be run out of ammo (because it's melee, derp herp I know). Melee is also the only weapon in the game with unlimited killing potential, unlike throwing's 3-4 TOPS, and crossbow's/bow's 10 or so.
That club can be blocked, chambered, and backpedal'd/outreached. The stones can't. Remember WHY ranged weaponry is bitched about when it does damage comparable to melee. It can't be blocked (except by being a shielder), can't be chambered (at all, sadly because that would be fucking epic) and can't be outreached (because it's ranged, derp herp I know).I almost.....almost replied with an actual argument to this, then I read the name of who posted and chuckled instead.
That club can be blocked, chambered, and backpedal'd/outreached. The stones can't. Remember WHY ranged weaponry is bitched about when it does damage comparable to melee. It can't be blocked (except by being a shielder), can't be chambered (at all, sadly because that would be fucking epic) and can't be outreached (because it's ranged, derp herp I know).Is this supposed to be a medieval period WAR simulator or is this game an 'honorable duel simulator'?
If we have reached the point where we are bitching about Stones, then you all should just lock the thread.Seriously. This mod has the greatest concentration of whiny cry babies I've ever seen.
This is pathetic. Stones, really? Not Throwing Axes, not Throwing Lances, not even War Darts... But Stones...
Is this supposed to be a medieval period WAR simulator or is this game an 'honorable duel simulator'?
Quoted for truth. There is currently the ENG server that forbids "dishonorable" things such as HA and such for the EU folks, and for the NA folks you can go to TunaTown if you want melee madness. I highly recommend the Duel Servers for anyone who also wants honorable "fair" fights.
Until then, I will continue making "specialist" builds that are weak against certain classes and completely dominate other classes in "unfair" fashions.
Cold Hard Facts:
Range is not going to be removed from cRPG.
Due to the modular build mechanics of cRPG, it is impossible to make everything "balanced" and some builds will simply have a noticable advantage against other builds.
This is not Native where everyone has the same stats and potential.
Is this supposed to be a medieval period WAR simulator or is this game an 'honorable duel simulator'?
Seriously. This mod has the greatest concentration of whiny cry babies I've ever seen.
Well, the current state is a much better simulation of medieval throwing than the previous system of pure throwers stuffing 20 axes down their pants. :lol:
It has nothing to do with honorable duels, but imo melee has the right to be more powerful than ranged.
Simply because yes, you have to get close, get through his blocks and block yourself. Even if you can't run away as ranged, you can hide behind teammates or in hard to reach spots. And threaten fairly many targets without moving from your spot.
That said, I don't care if it does more damage than a sword if it is limited otherwise but if a pure archer (a more or less sensible class) has to take a support role than you can't come with "but melee does so much damage too" etc when you want to play a made up thing like pure thrower. Simply accept it if you play this class you are not as effective as standard builds.
Not that I'm against a buff, but let's keep it weaker than melee.
mindless babble
What, you are talking about realism? And then you pull 17 out of hammerspace spam them out without ever hitting or actually stopping to pick one up while backpeddling and manage to kill him with the 18th one.
I'm talking about game balance, when I say ranged should be less powerful then melee.
I am a retard without a GED.
Bad players like ....
My IQ is half my age.
As far as accuracy while moving goes, I'm afraid that is unchangeable as of now. As far as the redundant items go, unfortunately we cannot do much about that either. The rock nerf idea surely, was a joke by Urist, not meant to be taken seriously. I like your idea about the windup speed, it certainly could be raised on some of the weapons.
A little recap on what the current plan is: the wpf per PT penalty is being lowered, the accuracy of weapons will be increased, and all weapons will become 1 slot, and some 1 slot weapons will have their ammo increased by a bit.
Anyways, after playing an agility based throwing type character for a bit, my main observations are mostly that the weapons are a good bit too inaccurate, especially when moving. Damage is also rather bad, but the upside is that I am in fact able to kite and evade my enemies decently. The other day I did also see a thrower character named 'veteran' top the scoreboards for a round or two. The ideal current way to play a thrower at the moment based on my experiences is to assist someone in a fight by chucking something into a distracted foe, so I think the best way to bolster this is to give throwing weapons more precision at close ranges.
Iconstantlyhave never beat you onmy2h/tincan altany character.
I got muted because I'm a retard who only insults people and devs while spewing complete nonsense.Yeah, well it was bound to happen.
Also damn Gorath, you're taking forever to quit the game. Or did you just rage quit cRPG and are sticking around the forums? Whatever you're doing hurry it up.
The only thing I thought could use more ammo was the lances really. Now people will whine about OP throwing again....
I havn't played yet but i think they over buffed, only cause everything is now 1 slot!
That was the problem to start with, It made throwing hybrids too easy.
U had a good thing going with the 2 slots system all they need was a bit more acc and a tad more ammo.
well in a week well see what has happen....
I havn't played yet but i think they over buffed, only cause everything is now 1 slot!
That was the problem to start with, It made throwing hybrids too easy.
U had a good thing going with the 2 slots system all they need was a bit more acc and a tad more ammo.
well in a week well see what has happen....
Um the NA siege server is pretty much 90% throw/shield spec now. :lol:
Funny coming from a member of the clan that promoted and laughed at deleting my characters (and Goretooth's, and other players better than you all). I stick around the forums because I like some of the people here and want to see how much warband is being destroyed by fucktards (read: goons) and CS players (read: range spam)
I moved on to a proper FPS since we're all just playing ranged spam anyways. Might as well go 100% and get back to nades and guns so everyone is on the same page since rather than watch the only FPMelee game available get ravaged and raped by ranged fuckwits.
Very funny indeed. Enjoy your FPS friend!
Says a whole lot about the NA community when people who behave like that are admins, lol
Gorath is not an Admin.Says he is a NA cRPG Admin, NA Web Admin?
I am confuzzled...
Says he is a NA cRPG Admin, NA Web Admin?
Oh... never seen him admin :/
Must have missed that.
Says a whole lot about the NA community when people who behave like that are admins, lol
Meh, I used to give a damn about acting somewhat respectful until the goons started fucking the community up beyond simply trololo'ing. Mass banning people via abusing access to the admin panel, then mass deleting the characters/accounts of players was pretty much the last straw. So fuck it, and fuck them.
I didn't get to try throwing before the hot fix.
:?
On the up side Mounted Thrower is playable again now.
:D
With the increase in repair costs I feel like the change to 1 slot is only a marginal improvement and that throwing weapons should probably have another 1 per stack except throwing lances maybe. And maybe some damage increase too.:rolleyes:
I'm not even a thrower but they are a joke now after the hotfixes.
I disagree. They feel viable again.<3
The change was a good fix.
That is nice to hear, I noticed that as well. Seems kinda pointless though if you don't get the speed bonus for riding the horse and throwing, but I guess it's kinda like an expensive form of higher athletics. Also probably fun.
That is just throwing axes. Jarids/throwing spears drop plate guys to dead really efficiently.
Throwing axe are cut, they are awesome at downing horses and medium and under armor...
Pretty asanine statement to make looking at a guy with 9 axes sticking out of him....What? I made a valid statement about damage type in reference to the armor being used. Guaranteed dead with 4 throwing spears/jarids.
I don't care how you "cut" it. 9 axes in any armor should be dead, period.
Just imagine that those axes bounced off the armor(which would happen in reality, I'm sure) and use a piercing throwing weapon when targeting tincans.
Are you kidding me? :? Just pretend that hitting a guy 9 times with a heavy axe at 6 powerthrow shouldn't kill him? Or pretend that armor isn't extremely overpowered now?It is ridiculous.
Just pretend that the nine axes I planted into that guy before he killed me "bounced off" instead of killing him. Ridiculous.
It is ridiculous.
Maybe instead it should take that tincan 9 swings to kill you, and he can imagine that the negative speed bonus from wearing a small car for armor made them all bounces. Maybe we could tickle, cajole and persuade the game mechanics into producing a situation that is both believable and fair to both the thrower and the tincan.
Sounds like we already have the bolded/underlined part. Plate armor weighed less than what modern combat infantry carry around, and it is/was more evenly distributed as well. It hindered mobility extremely little.I agree. Sticking to historicity, in a game where equipment separated both by vast distances and centuries of time (and degrees of fictionalization), is clearly more important than having a good game balance.
Also your throwing axe, unless thrown at 100+ mph by some super-roided baseball pitcher (and probably even then), would MAYBE dent the plate armor at BEST. Want to hurt a plater? Use a piercing weapon, and even then it's barely believable that a throwing spear would hurt someone in plate armor considering that plate deflected fucking arrows which are flying at much higher speeds and with greater concentrated force than any thrown weapon is. :rolleyes:
To continue the theme of historical accuracy I believe all characters should be afflicted with rickets
Hurp derp, Historically people wearing heavy armor would tire quickly from exertion.
I've had my "fucking" fun? Well briefly, for about half a day during the patching and hotfixing. But overall no I haven't. That's why I'm here. I am not enjoying myself
Throwing is fine. I play 2 throwers, one hybrid, one dedicated and it's a shitload of fun with both. I'm sick of this "lobbyists gonna lobby, no matter what".
/stopsreadingthread
100% of the human race had rickets?As long as we're aiming for the same level of accuracy as a Samurai with Klappvisier wielding a club fashioned out of a rock lashed to a stick, then yes. Every single human being was afflicted with debilitating rickets. It was truly a horrible time.
Throwing is fine. I play 2 throwers, one hybrid, one dedicated and it's a shitload of fun with both. I'm sick of this "lobbyists gonna lobby, no matter what".
/stopsreadingthread
Wait.... didn't you lobby for a massive nerf of archery based on "realism" isntead of game balance?? You've played thrower, how about trying to play an archer after you completely destroyed the class, would love to see any screenshots of you doing anything decent with it outside of defense on siege. Certainly wouldn't be having "shitloads of fun".
Also your throwing axe, unless thrown at 100+ mph by some super-roided baseball pitcher (and probably even then), would MAYBE dent the plate armor at BEST. Want to hurt a plater? Use a piercing weapon, and even then it's barely believable that a throwing spear would hurt someone in plate armor considering that plate deflected fucking arrows which are flying at much higher speeds and with greater concentrated force than any thrown weapon is. :rolleyes:I agree with this.
Look for another target to throw cutting weapons at. And in another threads people complain that devs dont care about tincans. My opinion is that investing in the most expensive armors should result in decent protection from at least cutting ranged.I agree.
I usually use an italian sword(30c) with 6 PS and 18 str. Against the said 70 armor tincan I'd do 5 avr damage, so it would take about 20 hits for a kill. I usually go for another target instead in a group fight.
Everyone on battle whips out their plate and are impossible for me to kill. I'd ignore them but most of them can catch up to me, and chasing down and killing throwers while ignoring all other targets is apparently a sport :(. They don't even have to bother dodging me because they can just close the gap and cleave me in two. Only pierce weapons matter anymore. Such a large gap between cut and pierce weapons has opened up. There's no real point in using anything cut because a good pierce weapon will take you down while you're running around swatting. I'd just carry jarids or spears but they're slow and just cost too damn much. I don't think the current price on them is worth it, considering you have to carry them multiple times. The repair costs rack up like you wouldn't believe. Wearing no armor I still lose money. At least with melee cut weapons, your wpf isn't reduced by power strike, and you can block with enough speed to be effective.Come on man. You have to give a little. Don't say you CAN'T carry jarids or spears because of (whatever reason(s)) If you WANT to counter armor then you NEED pierce weaps downsides and all. You can't have it all. Cut is still good I think BUT mainly use them on low armor foes. I still need to test throwing weaps effectiveness against non bots to see what the damage is like and if it's reasonable though. But assuming it is then throwers just need to use the proper 'tool' for the job. Which I think adds depth to the game instead of having say throwing axes able to down any and everybody no matter what they are wearing.
I think what Cheap Shot is going for isn't that he -can't- use jarids or throwing spears just that the repair costs are absurd to the point that naked with just your weapons you'll lose cash without a x5.
I mean hell, thats how my longbow and arrows are right now.
You aint fucking Jesus
Well, there seem to be lots of tards that think Realism > Balance, so lets fucking add some new stuff.That's a ridiculous argument. A game isn't about simulating every aspect of RL, just certain ones within the framework of the game and what many players still find 'fun'. Not everyone finds the same things 'fun' though and that's the problem. Some want major disregard for realism so everybody and everything can 'win' no matter what while others prefer more realism and having to think more tactically and not be able to defeat every foe you come up against (that's where other teamates come in). It's preference is all.
-You need to buy food, cook it and it eat in game, if you dont want to cook it yourselves, you can hire a chef or something, but it will take the same time as it would IRL, otherwise it wouldnt be realistic. If you dont eat, your stats gets lowered, and eventuelly, your character will starw to death.
-You need water, sometimes you will need to take a break from the fighting and bring out that bottle of water, but you need to find clean wather, OTHERWISE...
-Diseases, you can get it from bad water, bad food, wounds or just totally randomly. Lowers stats, some diseases leads to death, some to permanent injuries, like blindness. If your character gets really ill you should not be able to play with him until he's well again.
- You will need to take breaks to take a crap
- You must keep your character happy, otherwise his/her moral wont be as high and he/she will fight worse
- Sleep, of course your character needs to sleep, 7 hours a day would be enought. You will have to find somewhere to sleep before you log out. The character can have sleeping problems.
- Mental Illness, your character can of course be traumatized by all the violence and death and horror that war brings. Maybe he gets som Post-Traumatic Stress and goes shitscared when you do battle and starts running away, or you just get a psychosic and start seeing and hearing stuff that arent there. Your char might get deppressed, wich will lower stats.
-Death, if your character dies in battle, its gone. You aint fucking Jesus
Yes. I -can- use jarids or spears, but I really don't want to -have- to. You should be able to kill people with a weapon, that's what they're for. If the lower tier throwing weapons can only kill some players, then why have or use them?So you want to be able to kill any one with anything? Should ninja stars be able to take down plated chargers and plate wearing players? Should the short bow be able to defeat them as well? Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.
Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.
So you want to be able to kill any one with anything? Should ninja stars be able to take down plated chargers and plate wearing players? Should the short bow be able to defeat them as well? Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.
Yes. Obviously it should take a hell of a lot of throwing stars unless you get headshots, and the like, but yes it should be "possible". My gripe with axes is that while it is "possible" to kill people in armor, the amount it requires is not a reasonable number for the amount of them you get, the cost of them, and what is invested.That's why you use pierce weapons. That's what they are for. That's why there are different types of damage in the game. Axes are good for soft targets.
I look at that picture of the guy in the black plate, and I say "That should have been enough". If I'm the last person alive on my team and a black plate dude comes at me, should I stop and say "I'm sorry team, I can't fight this person. My axes are supposed to bounce off him." ? It's silly is all.Your axes weren't very effective against heavy armor. I think that's how it SHOULD be. The weapons exist to counter heavy armor. I just tried my thrower and using lances, spears and jarids I was taking down heavy armored guys. One in milanese plate too. Pick the right weapon for the task.
If we are supposed to be switching between cut and pierce based upon targets armor, then drop the slot requirement on the long bow to 1 so that we can actually carry a cut and a piercing option as an archer :idea:Longbow already has pierce damage. The other 1 slot bows you can carry a 2h mace (1 slot) or 1 hand pierce or blunt. The other bows which are 2 slot and cut damage they are more powerful than the 1 slots so that's the trade off I guess. Or you could always use the cheapest arrows so you get more ammo and free up a slot for melee weap.
Longbow already has pierce damage. The other 1 slot bows you can carry a 2h mace (1 slot) or 1 hand pierce or blunt. The other bows which are 2 slot and cut damage they are more powerful than the 1 slots so that's the trade off I guess. Or you could always use the cheapest arrows so you get more ammo and free up a slot for melee weap.
That's a ridiculous argument. A game isn't about simulating every aspect of RL, just certain ones within the framework of the game and what many players still find 'fun'. Not everyone finds the same things 'fun' though and that's the problem. Some want major disregard for realism so everybody and everything can 'win' no matter what while others prefer more realism and having to think more tactically and not be able to defeat every foe you come up against (that's where other teamates come in). It's preference is all.
So you want to be able to kill any one with anything? Should ninja stars be able to take down plated chargers and plate wearing players? Should the short bow be able to defeat them as well? Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.
You have no idea what you are talking about, yet felt the need to post anyhow :rolleyes:I know long bow is 2 slots. I should have said 'the other bows which are 1 slot'. Maybe I didn't communicate as good as I could have. Also unless things have changed drastically all other bows (except yumi I think its' called and warbow) are 1 slots. So yes you can bring a pierce or blunt melee with you. 2h mace is 1 slot (check it). Also 1h weaps are 1 slot (unless they changed since patch). 1 slot bow+1 slot per arrow stack (2 stacks) + 1 slot melee weap . Of course you probably want to put in points in 1h or 2h and have some ps to use it well but the capability is there to use. Basically there are options to hybridize an archer so when melee time comes you have a fighting chance. The alternative is to get as much PD as you can and hit em hard before they get to you.
Longbows are 2 slot. Use any other bow and it is either 2 slot (so no arrows and no melee weapon, ie WEAPONLESS), or 1 slot so that you can only take one quiver and NO melee weapon.
If we are supposed to be switching out to the proper weapon type, the dev's need to make it possible to do so.
You didnt notice the sarcasm? :rolleyes:Of course I did but I was arguing against the notion that realism in a game is always a 'bad' thing.
The reason you can't 2 shot tin cans is probably because of the damage value change. I personally don't recommend using the throwing lances with a mere 7 PT. In my opinion, if you are going to use such a limited amount of ammo, you need much more PT to make those shots count.
I don't shy away from criticizing the game balance team, and I'm one of the last people you could accuse of brown-nosing chadz, but I think they did a pretty good job of putting throwing in the right place.
My only question is: why the hell did you nerf rocks?
stones were 11b all the time, they have 12b in melee mode.
For the higher end throwing weapons I've just started playing with auto-repair turned off. This way, when my throwing spears or above break I only get 1/3 of the repair bill. It's serious a life saver moneywise.
I'm not sure how the game actually updates the repairs in regard to in game stats though. I could repair manually on the website right after something breaks, and obviously I have to use the -1 version of that weapon that round. But then next round it is repaired, at least on the site, but in game still displays the broken one. So I just stop bothering repairing mid map and just do it at the last round before a map change.
Otherwise the repair costs are just too fucking nuts.
If the lower tier throwing weapons can only kill some players, then why have or use them?Because they are cheaper and you get more of them?
Because they are cheaper and you get more of them?
Its a tradeoff, cheap and more = less damage and no piercing
More damage and piercing = expensive and less
The most expensive weapon is not necessarily the best one. Pick the right tools for the right jobs.
Someone with a cheap bow will be good fighting other archers, but not good fighting plate. Someone with a heavy bow will be better against plate, but has a disadvantage against other archers.
I know the devs are pretty much ignoring us now but I think the main problem with throwing is that there is too much that conflicts. Half the things in place are there trying to force us to only use throwing in hybrid builds. The other half is punishing us for hybriding. It doesn't make any sense.