Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?

[Cheap_Shot]

I've had my "fucking" fun? Well briefly, for about half a day during the patching and hotfixing. But overall no I haven't. That's why I'm here. I am not enjoying myself because I feel the game is not balanced. Many people agree right now, especially archers I'll bet. Everyone on battle whips out their plate and are impossible for me to kill. I'd ignore them but most of them can catch up to me, and chasing down and killing throwers while ignoring all other targets is apparently a sport . They don't even have to bother dodging me because they can just close the gap and cleave me in two. Only pierce weapons matter anymore. Such a large gap between cut and pierce weapons has opened up. There's no real point in using anything cut because a good pierce weapon will take you down while you're running around swatting. I'd just carry jarids or spears but they're slow and just cost too damn much. I don't think the current price on them is worth it, considering you have to carry them multiple times. The repair costs rack up like you wouldn't believe. Wearing no armor I still lose money. At least with melee cut weapons, your wpf isn't reduced by power strike, and you can block with enough speed to be effective.

The point is, with a melee cut weapon, you can continue to swat at the plate person if you are unable to ignore them. You wont run out of melee weapon. With throwing or archery cut weapons, if the armor is good enough and heirloomed, it's like a ranged black hole. They run off with all your ammo.

Again, you can go ahead and swear at me, but things just aren't balanced. Realism doesn't work for balancing video games. It was a lot more fun when all kinds of creative builds were viable. It's just my personal opinion that the cut damage change, while I totally understand the concept behind it, just isn't perfect. Saying "Go find other less armored people to kill, you cant kill these people" or "pretend they are bouncing off" sounds bad and unbalanced. There are a lot of suggestions I could make. Perhaps increase the stacks further on the cut throwing weapons and reduce the cost of the cut bows to compensate for the change would be the easiest off the top of my head. It takes a lot of effort and skill to land multiple blows, so more ammo instead of damage would lend itself better to skilled players rather then lucky, which is what annoys people. Honestly I feel worse for the archers. I've been walking around in cheap armor shrugging off arrows that would have killed me pre patch.

You never have to take my suggestions, but take my honest criticism, or just keep swearing at me and being defensive, whatever you prefer. I've said a lot of good things about you and defended you in this very thread when people lashed out at you, and now you're just lashing out at me.

[Gorath]

Hurp derp, Historically people wearing heavy armor would tire quickly from exertion.

Firstly, no they didn't.  Heat exhaustion maybe, but you can wear plate armor and be active in it for quite a long time when trained.

I've had my "fucking" fun? Well briefly, for about half a day during the patching and hotfixing. But overall no I haven't. That's why I'm here. I am not enjoying myself

Good.  GTFO then and go ruin some other game with the rest of your goon companions already.

[Paul]

Throwing is fine. I play 2 throwers, one hybrid, one dedicated and it's a shitload of fun with both. I'm sick of this "lobbyists gonna lobby, no matter what".
/stopsreadingthread

[Tears of Destiny]

Throwing is fine. I play 2 throwers, one hybrid, one dedicated and it's a shitload of fun with both. I'm sick of this "lobbyists gonna lobby, no matter what".
/stopsreadingthread

It took you this long to get "sick" of lobbying?

Dear god, do you even read any of the other threads in Balance or Suggestion boards?! The majority are "lobbying" like you suggested!

Welcome to c-RPG Paul, welcome to c-RPG...

[Slantedfloors]

100% of the human race had rickets?

As long as we're aiming for the same level of accuracy as a Samurai with Klappvisier wielding a club fashioned out of a rock lashed to a stick, then yes. Every single human being was afflicted with debilitating rickets. It was truly a horrible time.

[Keshian]

Throwing is fine. I play 2 throwers, one hybrid, one dedicated and it's a shitload of fun with both. I'm sick of this "lobbyists gonna lobby, no matter what".
/stopsreadingthread

Wait.... didn't you lobby for a massive nerf of archery based on "realism" isntead of game balance??  You've played thrower, how about trying to play an archer after you completely destroyed the class, would love to see any screenshots of you doing anything decent with it outside of defense on siege.  Certainly wouldn't be having "shitloads of fun".

[Tears of Destiny]

Wait.... didn't you lobby for a massive nerf of archery based on "realism" isntead of game balance??  You've played thrower, how about trying to play an archer after you completely destroyed the class, would love to see any screenshots of you doing anything decent with it outside of defense on siege.  Certainly wouldn't be having "shitloads of fun".

Hey how dare you bring that up! Archery nerf was to "increase fun levels" after all! I bet it is at least a shit-load and a half of fun! Metric shitloads even...

He is likely just butthurt that his hard work did not go over as well as he thought.

[Lichen]

Also your throwing axe, unless thrown at 100+ mph by some super-roided baseball pitcher (and probably even then), would MAYBE dent the plate armor at BEST.  Want to hurt a plater?  Use a piercing weapon, and even then it's barely believable that a throwing spear would hurt someone in plate armor considering that plate deflected fucking arrows which are flying at much higher speeds and with greater concentrated force than any thrown weapon is.   

I agree with this.

Look for another target to throw cutting weapons at. And in another threads people complain that devs dont care about tincans. My opinion is that investing in the most expensive armors should result in decent protection from at least cutting ranged.

I usually use an italian sword(30c) with 6 PS and 18 str. Against the said 70 armor tincan I'd do 5 avr damage, so it would take about 20 hits for a kill. I usually go for another target instead in a group fight.

I agree.

Everyone on battle whips out their plate and are impossible for me to kill. I'd ignore them but most of them can catch up to me, and chasing down and killing throwers while ignoring all other targets is apparently a sport . They don't even have to bother dodging me because they can just close the gap and cleave me in two. Only pierce weapons matter anymore. Such a large gap between cut and pierce weapons has opened up. There's no real point in using anything cut because a good pierce weapon will take you down while you're running around swatting. I'd just carry jarids or spears but they're slow and just cost too damn much. I don't think the current price on them is worth it, considering you have to carry them multiple times. The repair costs rack up like you wouldn't believe. Wearing no armor I still lose money. At least with melee cut weapons, your wpf isn't reduced by power strike, and you can block with enough speed to be effective.

Come on man. You have to give a little. Don't say you CAN'T carry jarids or spears because of (whatever reason(s)) If you WANT to counter armor then you NEED pierce weaps downsides and all. You can't have it all. Cut is still good I think BUT mainly use them on low armor foes. I still need to test throwing weaps effectiveness against non bots to see what the damage is like and if it's reasonable though. But assuming it is then throwers just need to use the proper 'tool' for the job. Which I think adds depth to the game instead of having say throwing axes able to down any and everybody no matter what they are wearing.

[Armois]

I think what Cheap Shot is going for isn't that he -can't- use jarids or throwing spears just that the repair costs are absurd to the point that naked with just your weapons you'll lose cash without a x5.

I mean hell, thats how my longbow and arrows are right now.

[Berserkadin]

Well, there seem to be lots of tards that think Realism > Balance, so lets fucking add some new stuff.

-You need to buy food, cook it and it eat in game, if you dont want to cook it yourselves, you can hire a chef or something, but it will take the same time as it would IRL, otherwise it wouldnt be realistic. If you dont eat, your stats gets lowered, and eventuelly, your character will starw to death.
-You need water, sometimes you will need to take a break from the fighting and bring out that bottle of water, but you need to find clean wather, OTHERWISE...
-Diseases, you can get it from bad water, bad food, wounds or just totally randomly. Lowers stats, some diseases leads to death, some to permanent injuries, like blindness. If your character gets really ill you should not be able to play with him until he's well again.
- You will need to take breaks to take a crap
- You must keep your character happy, otherwise his/her moral wont be as high and he/she will fight worse
- Sleep, of course your character needs to sleep, 7 hours a day would be enought. You will have to find somewhere to sleep before you log out. The character can have sleeping problems.
- Mental Illness, your character can of course be traumatized by all the violence and death and horror that war brings. Maybe he gets som Post-Traumatic Stress and goes shitscared when you do battle and starts running away, or you just get a psychosic and start seeing and hearing stuff that arent there. Your char might get deppressed, wich will lower stats.
-Death, if your character dies in battle, its gone. You aint fucking Jesus

[Cheap_Shot]

I think what Cheap Shot is going for isn't that he -can't- use jarids or throwing spears just that the repair costs are absurd to the point that naked with just your weapons you'll lose cash without a x5.

I mean hell, thats how my longbow and arrows are right now.

Yes. I -can- use jarids or spears, but I really don't want to -have- to. You should be able to kill people with a weapon, that's what they're for. If the lower tier throwing weapons can only kill some players, then why have or use them? If devs don't want people to have high powerthrow, then why make the high tier throwing weapons near mandatory? Everything is just too conflicting. I just wan't one style to be viable instead of both in a pile trying to fit together like two halves of different puzzles.

I have no idea how you can balance a video game based on realism. I don't think you really can.

You aint fucking Jesus

Yeah, Jesus fucker is a very different video game.

[Lichen]

Well, there seem to be lots of tards that think Realism > Balance, so lets fucking add some new stuff.

-You need to buy food, cook it and it eat in game, if you dont want to cook it yourselves, you can hire a chef or something, but it will take the same time as it would IRL, otherwise it wouldnt be realistic. If you dont eat, your stats gets lowered, and eventuelly, your character will starw to death.
-You need water, sometimes you will need to take a break from the fighting and bring out that bottle of water, but you need to find clean wather, OTHERWISE...
-Diseases, you can get it from bad water, bad food, wounds or just totally randomly. Lowers stats, some diseases leads to death, some to permanent injuries, like blindness. If your character gets really ill you should not be able to play with him until he's well again.
- You will need to take breaks to take a crap
- You must keep your character happy, otherwise his/her moral wont be as high and he/she will fight worse
- Sleep, of course your character needs to sleep, 7 hours a day would be enought. You will have to find somewhere to sleep before you log out. The character can have sleeping problems.
- Mental Illness, your character can of course be traumatized by all the violence and death and horror that war brings. Maybe he gets som Post-Traumatic Stress and goes shitscared when you do battle and starts running away, or you just get a psychosic and start seeing and hearing stuff that arent there. Your char might get deppressed, wich will lower stats.
-Death, if your character dies in battle, its gone. You aint fucking Jesus

That's a ridiculous argument. A game isn't about simulating every aspect of RL, just certain ones within the framework of the game and what many players still find 'fun'. Not everyone finds the same things 'fun' though and that's the problem. Some want major disregard for realism so everybody and everything can 'win' no matter what while others prefer more realism and having to think more tactically and not be able to defeat every foe you come up against (that's where other teamates come in). It's preference is all.

Yes. I -can- use jarids or spears, but I really don't want to -have- to. You should be able to kill people with a weapon, that's what they're for. If the lower tier throwing weapons can only kill some players, then why have or use them?

So you want to be able to kill any one with anything? Should ninja stars be able to take down plated chargers and plate wearing players? Should the short bow be able to defeat them as well? Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.

[Armois]

Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.

Melee can at least damage people- and that wooden stick, assuming it does blunt damage, is going to do a slight bit more than many cut weapons above its paygrade.  Should all melee need a weapon at least as powerful as a bec to do damage to anyone in armor better than Sarranid padded?

[Cheap_Shot]

So you want to be able to kill any one with anything? Should ninja stars be able to take down plated chargers and plate wearing players? Should the short bow be able to defeat them as well? Should melee be able to own everything using a wooden stick (cause those high tier weapons are just too expensive?) Why have different weaps and damage types then? Just have 1 melee 1 throwing and 1 bow and they all do generic 'damage' that everybody can play 'tic tac toe' with.

Yes. Obviously it should take a hell of a lot of throwing stars unless you get headshots, and the like, but yes it should be "possible". My gripe with axes is that while it is "possible" to kill people in armor, the amount it requires is not a reasonable number for the amount of them you get, the cost of them, and what is invested. I look at that picture of the guy in the black plate, and I say "That should have been enough". If I'm the last person alive on my team and a black plate dude comes at me, should I stop and say "I'm sorry team, I can't fight this person. My axes are supposed to bounce off him." ? It's silly is all.

[Lichen]

Yes. Obviously it should take a hell of a lot of throwing stars unless you get headshots, and the like, but yes it should be "possible". My gripe with axes is that while it is "possible" to kill people in armor, the amount it requires is not a reasonable number for the amount of them you get, the cost of them, and what is invested.

That's why you use pierce weapons. That's what they are for. That's why there are different types of damage in the game. Axes are good for soft targets.

I look at that picture of the guy in the black plate, and I say "That should have been enough". If I'm the last person alive on my team and a black plate dude comes at me, should I stop and say "I'm sorry team, I can't fight this person. My axes are supposed to bounce off him." ? It's silly is all.

Your axes weren't very effective against heavy armor. I think that's how it SHOULD be. The weapons exist to counter heavy armor. I just tried my thrower and using lances, spears and jarids I was taking down heavy armored guys. One in milanese plate too. Pick the right weapon for the task.