Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?

[Team_Jacob]

I agree throwing was overnerfed, BUT let's not forget what dedicated throwing is like:

They're the HA of the ground, dedicated kiters who have the potential (see: buff) of great cav defence/great damage (javelins), or great amounts of ammo/accuracy (knives/stones). My oppinion (as I play dedicated pole) may be biased, but a server full of those... (countered by friendly archers mind you) Not so much fun.

IMO (sorry Cheap_Shot), throwing and xbows need to switch roles abit. I would like to see throwing being a cheap, easy to use, very low ammo backup weapon for infantry who wants abit of effective cav defence/extra dmg on 2h or poles/ranged shieldbreaking/chance of lucky HS. (While giving xbows some more restrictions, but that's another thread)

Chasing/shooting running throwers does not sound like fun gameplay tbh.

I'm not saying throwing should not be buffed... Idd it got hit too hard by the nerfbat, I just feel like the community should think twice before deciding that dedicated throwing should be fotm^^

Throwing doesn't have great cav defense. Throwing will only kill the lower tier horses in 1 shot and that's only if you hit them in the head. If you miss or it doesn't kill the horse in 1 shot, you die, period. If you don't polearm stab the horse and stop it, you're most likely going to be in trouble. I would say that crossbows have much much better cav defense because they can fire from much farther away and then pull out their melee weapon to block/stab while a thrower has to wait until the horse is nearly on top of him.

[Dezilagel]

(click to show/hide)

Throwing doesn't have great cav defense. Throwing will only kill the lower tier horses in 1 shot and that's only if you hit them in the head. If you miss or it doesn't kill the horse in 1 shot, you die, period. If you don't polearm stab the horse and stop it, you're most likely going to be in trouble. I would say that crossbows have much much better cav defense because they can fire from much farther away and then pull out their melee weapon to block/stab while a thrower has to wait until the horse is nearly on top of him.

Sigh... Why do I even bother posting this?

They're the HA of the ground, dedicated kiters who have the potential (see: buff) of great cav defence/great damage (javelins),

Also:

Try pressing "x", it's cool.

[Butan]

Try pressing "x", it's cool.

Dont forget Alt.

[Cheap_Shot]

Btw, that's the most fail analogy I've ever heard from a non-lljk member.  Though it's expected from them and excusable.  In this case it's just shameful.

That's kind of out of nowhere. Way to lash out at an entire group, and randomly. At least when you slander homosexuals, you manage to tie it into whatever you're saying.

I agree throwing was overnerfed, BUT let's not forget what dedicated throwing is like:

They're the HA of the ground, dedicated kiters who have the potential (see: buff) of great cav defence/great damage (javelins), or great amounts of ammo/accuracy (knives/stones). My oppinion (as I play dedicated pole) may be biased, but a server full of those... (countered by friendly archers mind you) Not so much fun.

What? What are you talking about? Are you sure you're describing the same game that we're all playing? Dedicated kiters? HA of the ground? I...don't even....

[Gorath]

That's kind of out of nowhere. Way to lash out at an entire group, and randomly. At least when you slander homosexuals, you manage to tie it into whatever you're saying.

A Goon whining about being picked on is as sad as a criminal whining about being spit on.   

[Templar_Ratigan]

11 blunt, even with 10 PT, doesn't do enough damage to hurt tincans unless it's a headshot. In which case it does like 2-3 damage tops.

He recently announced he just reached masterwork stones, that is 15 blunt  .

[Team_Jacob]

He recently announced he just reached masterwork stones, that is 15 blunt  .

Ah, well in that case it's like 1-5 damage per hit, or slightly over double that to the head.

[Lichen]

Ironic that the entire point that's been made in the thread was that all of the ranged guys are trying to play an FPS rather than enjoy the ONLY melee combat game out, and then you use a FPS to make your point.   

Which begs the question:  Why the fuck don't all the ranged go play a goddamned proper FPS rather than playing an FPS where half the people don't have a gun to shoot back.... owait, easy targets.

*Whoops, my bad.  Thought this was the "We're back at counterstrike medieval" thread.  lol*

It has little to do with ranged weapons or not. The point is that in that game all weapons were pretty much deadly when used skillfully. AS should be in THIS game/mod. However the melee lobbyists want everything else to conform AROUND them rather than have everything be viable.

Go play Quake/CS/MoH/CoD/Halo/UT/TF2/etc etc etc etc ffs then?  No?
Oh yeah, because there everyone can shoot back at you instead of being helpless as they try to cross the field hiding behind a shield or running zig zags with a melee weapon.

'Helpless'? lol Do you wear good armor with some IF? Guess who's helpless once they miss their target with their limited ammo? Throwers. That's the 'game' They miss they usually die.

Here; want instructions on how to deal with throwers since it seems they are so unbearably difficult to handle and tear inducing? If you are being attacked by one sidestep until the thrower runs out of ammo or chooses another target. After he's out of ammo he's pretty much dead anyway. Oh yeah also if you have heavier armor + high IF you can pretty much ignore most throwers throwing knives, darts etc and maybe even more powerful weaps (haven't tested to be sure). Also simply stay out of effective range whenever possible (is someone forcing you to close in on throwers?) and let your own ranged or shielders deal with them (there's an idea!). If you have to go up a ladder (as in siege) accept that you might get killed by throwing weaps, arrows, bolts and oh yeah MELEE too. 

[Team_Jacob]

It has little to do with ranged weapons or not. The point is that in that game all weapons were pretty much deadly when used skillfully. AS should be in THIS game/mod. However the melee lobbyists want everything else to conform AROUND them rather than have everything be viable.
'Helpless'? lol Do you wear good armor with some IF? Guess who's helpless once they miss their target with their limited ammo? Throwers. That's the 'game' They miss they usually die.

Here; want instructions on how to deal with throwers since it seems they are so unbearably difficult to handle and tear inducing? If you are being attacked by one sidestep until the thrower runs out of ammo or chooses another target. After he's out of ammo he's pretty much dead anyway. Oh yeah also if you have heavier armor + high IF you can pretty much ignore most throwers throwing knives, darts etc and maybe even more powerful weaps (haven't tested to be sure). Also simply stay out of effective range whenever possible (is someone forcing you to close in on throwers?) and let your own ranged or shielders deal with them (there's an idea!). If you have to go up a ladder (as in siege) accept that you might get killed by throwing weaps, arrows, bolts and oh yeah MELEE too.

The irony is that gorath wears decent armor and has a shield. He really has no reason to complain about throwers.

[Gorath]

The irony is that gorath wears decent armor and has a shield. He really has no reason to complain about throwers.

The larger irony is that I've said before that it's not about effectiveness vs ranged players, but a general disdain of the bundle of sticksry of it's nature.

Again:  I can play a game of football just fine.
I can play a game of football while some bundle of sticks is flicking pennies at me and yelling "LALALLALALKDJLKJSDKGJLKSDJGKLDSJGLKSJGDLKDJ" at the top of his lungs too.  Just because I can still accomplish my goal doesn't mean I don't dislike that fuckwit and want to bitchslap his dumb ass at the same time.

[Team_Jacob]

The larger irony is that I've said before that it's not about effectiveness vs ranged players, but a general disdain of the bundle of sticksry of it's nature.

Again:  I can play a game of football just fine.
I can play a game of football while some bundle of sticks is flicking pennies at me and yelling "LALALLALALKDJLKJSDKGJLKSDJGKLDSJGLKSJGDLKDJ" at the top of his lungs too.  Just because I can still accomplish my goal doesn't mean I don't dislike that fuckwit and want to bitchslap his dumb ass at the same time.

You sound like a whiny baby that is mad that everyone else doesn't want to play his way.

[Gorath]

You sound like a whiny baby that is mad that everyone else doesn't want to play his way.

And you sound like the annoying twat from down the street that ruined everyone's game of swords by cowering in a tree and throwing rocks at people, wondering why everyone called him a bundle of sticks.

[Malaclypse]

Yeah, cRPG, and Mount and Blade in general, isn't this football you speak of, Gorath. People have been complaining about ranged since day one vanilla, and it's still here, and it's not about to go anywhere. Mount and Blade wasn't created as a melee only experience.

 Luckily, for those who want a melee only experience to really challenge their skills, we have duel servers. And for NA, TunaTown weekends! Everybody wins.

[Cheap_Shot]

You sound like a whiny baby that is mad that everyone else doesn't want to play his way.

Seconded. Whiny baby, trying to make his statements seem more valid by adding in slurs. You have a shield and good armor? No excuse. Stop whining about ranged and play better, or stay in tuna town where you don't have to worry about anything complicated like tactics, or teamwork, or thinking.

Lichen, you've described how easy it is to counter throwing, but you can go a step easier. Shield skill 4+ and any amount of athletics. Thats...pretty much a thrower kill button. Tested it out on duel. Took every single one of my throwing spears to take out a steel shield at powerthrow 9, and forget about hitting the head or feet behind that thing with throwing accuacy. Do I shout "NERF SHIELDS, REMOVE SHIELDS, WHAT DO THOSE bundle of sticksS HAVE TO HIDE?" like you do about ranged? Naw, I just learn to avoid them and play the game better. You should try it out.

[dontgothere]

For those who still don't get it, here's the issue in a nutshell:

  Dedicated throwing and high-tier throwing weapons have been nerfed out of usefulness.  They just don't work outside of very small engagements - like 8v8 matches.  Our DPS potential is limited by the low-tier weapons, which we can carry many times more of than the high-tier throwing weapons.  We used to be able to scavenge reliably from the battlefield, or at least to get in enough kills before we ran-out of weapons that we did our fair share for the team - but now we have no options like that.  We can't even loom-up the quantity of our throwing weapons like we used to.  Previously, masterwork lances were 2 in a pack and took 1 slot - so at Gen4, you could have 8, with no melee or shield.  That was perfectly fair but it sounds like it will never be possible again.

  All it would take to make everyone happy is to keep everything as it is now, but raise the PT requirement of the high tier weapons while either increasing their ammo count or lowering their item slot occupancy.  Low-requirement weapons for hybrids and beginners, and high-requirement weapons for dedicated and mature builds - just like how it is for every other kind of weapon in the game.
'cept us, cuz we're hated simply for doing the XTREME, risky version of what archers and xbows do.


It's unfortunate that we can't have a more respectful and sober exchange on this subject.  Even if the proposals in the thread don't sound so hot to some people, there's no cause to disrespect the fundamental complaints.

I think that the devs should be commended for addressing the overuse of throwing weapons in the previous patch - and the PT*14 WFP requirement is actually a fair number if you poke around in the character calculator.   That's what many throwers have been saying and it's a shame that doesn't get us some recognition, as opposed to the typical whiners who won't compromise.  What causes the 14*PT WPF requirement to get so many complaints is that dedicated throwers put everything into PT in order to do the kind of damage that makes us useful, since we have so few shots and such crap range/accuracy.

The changes made by the devs have actually been pretty effective at getting people to melee more and throw less, which is a plus.   There were merely a few oversights made in correcting hybrid throwers that have made things too rough on dedicated throwers, and all it takes is a few simple tweaks to make everything fair.    So why all the insults and arguing?  If it keeps up, though, I think a mod needs to stop the trolling with a warning to Gorath.  He's an experienced player though and it would be awesome if he could just act grown-up about this.