Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?

[Seawied]

Yes indeed.  I am but a poor child banging away at the keys.  Why, are you cruising the net for a date?

  you know it!

[Tears of Destiny]

Yes indeed.  I am but a poor child banging away at the keys.  Why, are you cruising the net for a date?

IT IS A TRAP FROM THE FBI DO NOT RESPOND! He is really a team of Special Agents...

[Seawied]

IT IS A TRAP FROM THE FBI DO NOT RESPOND! He is really a team of Special Agents...

OH NO! NOT AGAIN!

[dontgothere]

I just wanna say that there's no reason to get ticked-off at the devs or anything - I'm sure everyone's doing their best and you can't expect everything to go right the first time.    I would like to thank them for even reading this thread and participating!      This thread's probably gone on long enough and the next patch is so near, that I bet there's no point to my posting - but I just wanted to say a few things to close on.

The WPF-nerf halves my PT.  If that weren't the case there'd be a lot less to worry about. 

Gorath, when was the last time you played a full throwing build?  I'm just curious because the last time I know of was before I started Artie, and the patches have changed a lot about throwing since then.  Back when I started Artie, full throwing was like having a really really short-range gun - now it just feels like stunted archery.  I can see the point that hybrid throwers were too overpowered compared to full melee builds, but the changes are really bad for a 39/42 STR build because it makes a ton of wasted points for existing characters.  There's nothing I can do but start over. 

Also, consider the throwing lance.  With a requirement of 7 PT, there's just no way most builds get to use it unless they're seriously invested in throwing.  But the thing takes 2 slots for just one, requires so much wpf invested now, and does only as much damage as an upper-mid Xbow - it's all pointless.  What is it any good for anymore?  It used to be the reason a full-throwing build worked because you could keep one in one slot, in reserve, and know that if the enemy closed to melee distance, you had a way to kill in one hit if you aimed just right.  I think it should remain relatively hard to aim, but with all the other nerfs, that tool is gone for full-throwers and at melee range we're helpless.  That would be fine - if things weren't so bad at throwing-range now, too.

The settings for some of these throwing weapons are so strange, too.  Jarids aren't enough of an improvement over throwing spears to justify the loss of one in a pack, and throwing spears are so near to throwing lances in effective damage that there's no reason to take a throwing lance instead of throwing spears.  It just seems like a mess.

Throwing was getting to be way too much in earlier versions though, I agree - it used to be that there was no reason NOT to hybrid throwing if you were melee.  Seems like an over-nerf and it shouldn't be a bother to just cut the wpf-nerfing, tweak some weapon stats and make everything pretty nearly balanced.

[Danath]

It's been uber nerfed.

Hoardes of bitching noobs need to be lemming'd off a cliff and only the smarter ones able to provide an opinion as it's clear the hoardes affected the decision process of the dev's to make a bad choice here (the over-nerf of throwing)

When I see a thrower now I'm practically rambo'ing to him with twice as much confidence until they realize throwing sucks and change their slots next round lol.

[AlbaTiger]

Which is fine...

...unless they know how to block well enough to wait for backup to save them.

Generally speaking though I always used skirmish tactics on my thrower and still do. Going for people that are aiming for others, running for it if someone goes for me or sticking close to melee players who can cover me and finish off targets I wound.

Of course the running part is currently a lot trickier what with needing all the power throw you can get to try and counter the nerfs a little, which leaves you with less athletics.

[Templar_Ratigan]

^So in other words you are a vulture, picking off the unobservant and dying? Hey thats not a bad idea, shame every other style of play can do the same. 

Well yeah, if having 153 wpf in throwing is a hybrid then I'm probably kidding. Also, Coin was probably just lucky with all those throwing axes each time i spectated him or saw him killing someone down in the casualties report, he headshots and 1-shots so many people with nothing but luck & experience in throwing.
As for Pebble - he doesn't suck at all actually, the only reason he gets bad scores is because he doesn't really play too serious, often wonders alone in his blue shirt and pants with no melee weapon equipped and spams rocks. If he took a little more serious approach he'd surely be up there with Coin but he prefers being useless and having fun, nothing wrong with that.

Having 153 throwing wpf doesnt make him a pure thrower, it's the weapons you use not the stats you have that make you what you are, he used to use just heavy axes, but these days ive seen him a few times spawning with a melee weapon. At least when it comes to throwing, other things are more debatable. Also heavy throwing axes are piss easy to use.

As for pebble it's going to be a lets agree to disagree stance, the man is just an awful waste of space on a team or in the game, I hate seeing him play, he's just fucking poor, all he does is annoy people. He's like a gorath with throwing, except he trolls in game.

Face it gnjus you would like all throwers to be pebble, just irritating, easily killed, wastes of space. But you are a shielder you shouldnt even have problems with throwing.

[dontgothere]

Oh yeah - and could we get Throwing Lances to be a 2-slot item, with an ammo of 2 instead of 1?  Back when you could heirloom it up to 2, having just 1 in a stack was fine because at least you knew in the future that you had another coming.

But now that its damage has been nerfed down to the point that even fully-loomed it's still barely better than the middle xbow, I think that 4 war spears, 3 jarids and two throwing lances just makes sense.  One throwing lance just isn't worth anything anymore...

[Seawied]

Oh yeah - and could we get Throwing Lances to be a 2-slot item, with an ammo of 2 instead of 1?  Back when you could heirloom it up to 3, having just 2 in a stack was fine because at least you knew in the future that you had another coming.

fixed this for you. And for the record, throwing lances did more damage than crossbows because they beenfit from PT

[AlbaTiger]

^So in other words you are a vulture, picking off the unobservant and dying? Hey thats not a bad idea, shame every other style of play can do the same. 

Well either I pick them off, or I am the one who makes them dying and leaves them for the other vultures to finish.
 

[Team_Jacob]

fixed this for you. And for the record, throwing lances did more damage than crossbows because they beenfit from PT

It takes 9+ PT (closer to 10 iirc) to equal an arbalest with steel bolts. That's 27 str, 9 points in PT, and 9*14+ points in wpf (+ because of armor reduction). So someone who spends nearly all of their points on throwing and wears basically no armor can throw a grand total of two lances that do the same damage as someone who sacrificed 0 points, still has room for a 1 slot melee weapon with 12 shots or has a 0 slot melee weapon with 24 shots. If someone chooses to do so, they can also put a lot of wpf into crossbows to make them more accurate than anything else in the game and reload at a very respectable rate.

[Team_Jacob]

I think another core problem is that if you give throwers 20+ ammo for throwing axes and 15+ for jarids/spears and 5+ lances, they might be too effective in the smaller battle servers. In a siege server though, they are severely underpowered due to the low ammo count. If possible, it would be nice to be able to restock in a siege without dying and facing a long timer on defense (offense is fine, you can just die and get right back into the battle). Or perhaps a larger stockpile of ammo on siege servers. As it stands, most throwers get the vast majority of their kills with a melee weapon, even with a dedicated throwing build.

Lastly, I know that the devs like to keep and spit out kill stats. Before the huge nerf throwing weapons accounted for something like 1% of all kills for a week on one of the servers. I'd bet it's barely, if even, .1% now.

[Native_ATS]

i just want throwing lances ammo to be uped to 2, or maybe 3 for 3 slots

[Seawied]

It takes 9+ PT (closer to 10 iirc) to equal an arbalest with steel bolts. That's 27 str, 9 points in PT, and 9*14+ points in wpf (+ because of armor reduction). So someone who spends nearly all of their points on throwing and wears basically no armor can throw a grand total of two lances that do the same damage as someone who sacrificed 0 points, still has room for a 1 slot melee weapon with 12 shots or has a 0 slot melee weapon with 24 shots. If someone chooses to do so, they can also put a lot of wpf into crossbows to make them more accurate than anything else in the game and reload at a very respectable rate.

Power throw is currently at 10% damage increase per level. Throwing lances deal 56p when thrown. Steel bolts+ Arbalest deal 87 damage right off the bat. This means that the arbalest deals 55% more damage than throwing lances before skills are factored in. Once you factor in wpf, and PT requirement, throwing lances deal more damage on equip than the arbalest.

I agree 100% that its bullshit that a weapon as strong as the Arbalest can be used with no weapon investment, and that the overall accuracy of xbows is ridiculously high. I also agree that crossbows as a whole are much more overpowered than throwing ever was... But throwing lances do deal more damage than an arbalest.This is coming from someone who uses a crossbow hybrid and one of those lame-ass shot gunners with 0 wpf in xbow. Yes. I'm THAT GUY. Commence tomato slinging now.

[Gnjus]

Having 153 throwing wpf doesnt make him a pure thrower, it's the weapons you use not the stats you have that make you what you are, he used to use just heavy axes, but these days ive seen him a few times spawning with a melee weapon. At least when it comes to throwing, other things are more debatable. Also heavy throwing axes are piss easy to use.

As for pebble it's going to be a lets agree to disagree stance, the man is just an awful waste of space on a team or in the game, I hate seeing him play, he's just fucking poor, all he does is annoy people. He's like a gorath with throwing, except he trolls in game.

Face it gnjus you would like all throwers to be pebble, just irritating, easily killed, wastes of space. But you are a shielder you shouldnt even have problems with throwing.

If having a 153 wpf in throwing and (most of the time) spawning with nothing but throwing axes doesn't make him a pure thrower then i really cant think of anything that could ever make him one.

Again: yes, Pebbles us useless but only because he chooses to be, if he played a bit more serious he'd be far from useless but that is his own freedom of choice, correct ? The thing he plays like that doesn't make all the dedicated throwers with a bit more serious approach THAT bad, its just him and his trolling approach. If he actually cared he would easily be the good old Pebbles we all know.
Last but not the least: the bolded part - I don't know why you imply that i would like something or not, its not about me, we are talking about throwing here. Pebbles is useless cause he wants to be but all people who are whining and crying about throwing here are useless cause they just plain suck and they cant do anything about it so they want throwing buffed as it was.
Throwing atm is much more realistic and balanced then ever before. Go check Vikingr, there you get 2 axes or 2 javelins, you don't get to carry 12 axes/spears/javelins/darts/whatever, with a secondary mod so you can kick some additional asses with your last weapon. That's how it should be, throwing weapons were mostly secondary, used as line & shield breakers. Throwers were never a one-man-armies like in cRPG before the last patch.