Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?

[Paul]

Nope, 13 wpf / PT.

[MouthnHoof]

In the current patch, you need 14 wpf per point in power throw, after armor encumbrance reduction, in order to have enough wpf. If you do not have enough wpf after encumbrance, your power throw is reduced. For instance

Nope, 13 wpf / PT.

Ahh, I see, so it means that armor will effectively lower both wpf AND PT to match it.
The problem is that the whole thing is so unclear. You see, even the required wpf/PT is not really clear and the wpf penaly that I suffer from armor is not easily available either. Hence my suggestion to simply block the increase of PT at the character screen instead of making it a dynamic and confusing system. This also brings up the issue of the armor wpf penaly - it would be nice to see it in the character equipment screen: where it shows the weight and upkeep and slots values to the default gear, it should also show the wpf penalies.

I'll post these in the suggestions board.

[Templar_Ratigan]

*EDIT*

What a load of rubbish.

[AlbaTiger]

I think we should just remove throwing, then over time the problem will go away and very few will give a shit, this whole rigmaroll is giving me a migraine.

Good idea, lets do the same for crossbows, horse archers, crushthrough, tincans, twohanders, heirlooms, generations, levels and anything else which can might possibly have ever been complained about.

[Native_ATS]

  no answer to my question about heirloomed throwing lances...
did anyone ells heirloom throwing lances... or anything that can be thrown?

[IG_Saint]

Won't 1 slot throwing weapons make throwing hybrids too effective?

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 65

    Converted: 2
    Ironflesh: 6
    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 6
    Power Throw: 6
    Weapon Master: 5

    melee: 123
    Throwing: 100

Bit of armour, a greatsword or poleaxe and 8 throwing spears. That seems like a character capable of taking on anyone in melee and being dangerous at short-medium range. And what about throwers with shields? A steel shield and 16 throwing spears? Seems a bit much. I'd say that at least the top tier of throwing weapons need to be 2 slots, maybe with a slight ammo increase. 2 slots for the beter items is also more consistent with the other weapon types and their slot usage.

[Paul]

Throwing lance isn't removed. It might get a new model, that's all.

[Vammo75]

I'm with Saint here. With single slot and increased ammo hybrid throwers will be OP. It was hybrids that were the problem in the first place, not dedicated throwers.

Why not lower base damage across the board and instead increase the effect of PT on damage. You can only have 4 ath with 9 PT; 3 ath with 10 PT at Lv30 so this would stop power throwers kiting.

With the wpt-limiter, hybrids will have less throwing damage than dedicated throwers as they will need to assign skill points to their primary weapon and weapon master and attribute points to agility: instead of to PT and strength.

I also think that the higher throwing weapons, axes upwards, should be sold as single slot with one or two ammo and as 3-slot items with say 12 ammo.

[Dezilagel]

Some copypasta from another thread:

And about throwing melee tendencies... You have to remember that anyone who carries a ranged weapon will always hesitate to go into melee against someone who doesn't, unless that person is choosing to ignore their advantage (which is rare), this will always stay true. Also, if two people are carrying roughly equally powerful ranged arsenals, and roughly equal defenses (shields) there's little sense in switching to melee for any of them. (As you will be disadvantaged in melee from the damage of the other persons' ranged weaponry, or you might just not get to melee at all).

This is why I'm abit worried about the upcoming throwing buff. I do have faith in the balance team that they will try to balance it as good as possible, but if throwing is returned to a level of effectiveness where everyone not dedicated ranged or cav is carrying a couple of stacks (which was the case pre-patch, and those spears/lances/whatever hurt ALOT), we are going to se a HUGE decline in the amount of melee battles actually happening on the battlefields. And a large increase in shielders, since those are going to be the guys that actually get to the melee brawl.

And how does agi vs str fit into this? from my pov this is going to be a huge str buff since PT is what any thrower wants to stack, while hp/armor is your main defence. Not to mention that str is already very powerful. shielders might want to stack abit more agi due to shield hp/coverage, but that is already the case.

Basically:

1. Throwing does not promote melee in any way, thus the "but throwing buff will fix melee vs cav balance!!!" stands moot to me.

2. Regarding 1. will the throwing buff not just lead too everyone chucking things at eachother instead of meleeing? (which was the case pre-patch) Unless you are serverely disadvantaged (i.e another much more powerful ranged is your opponent) there is little reason not to use a ranged weapon when given the opportunity.

3. Str vs Agi balance? Most of my friends who still play dedicated 2h/pole are now 36 str tankmonsters with heavy armor, mostly due to all the flying shit and lancers around.

[Templar_Ratigan]

Good idea, lets do the same for crossbows, horse archers, crushthrough, tincans, twohanders, heirlooms, generations, levels and anything else which can might possibly have ever been complained about.

*EDIT*

Sorry about this tiger.

[Cheap_Shot]

Jesus christ. I go away for one week and you all shit all over and get the devs to hate throwing even more by literally calling them out.
If you have a problem with those on the development team, which my be warranted, and may not, this is not the place to voice them. By voicing your criticism of them here you are hurting the case for throwing significantly. Paul was very helpful and spoke to me about the state of throwing and the issues restricting some changes and the reasons behind others. They are planning to give a lot back to throwing, much more then I honestly expected to get, and the only things these threads should be used for, is to discuss the effects certain changes would have and what would be best to balance things.

Unless there is a better solution, the wpf requirement per PT level is required due to the way regular M&B works. If it weren't there, then throwing wpf would be out of control. While I agree that it is not a good limiting system for throwing for a lot of reasons, it is needed, and I have no credible suggestions on what to replace it with. Our only hope is to have it lowered from 13 (which it is at currently) to a lower number, 11 would be great but even 12 would be a glass of water in the desert. 

As for stack size and whatnot, they are taking care of it, and generously. Hopefully they are still taking care of it and this thread hasn't changed their minds.

[Templar_Ratigan]

Wait who was shitting on the development team, I smell a porno.

[Native_ATS]

Throwing lance isn't removed. It might get a new model, that's all.

if this is true i will master work mine 

[Templar_Ratigan]

Hah yeah, the double sided lance is an ugly piece of work at the best of times.

[Cheap_Shot]

Hah yeah, the double sided lance is an ugly piece of work at the best of times.

Oh, it has it's charm. Like a hooker with a heart of gold.