Author Topic: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?  (Read 26058 times)

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Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2011, 02:36:42 am »
0
I agree throwers got fisted, when they should only have been fingered, in the anus.

I remember raging at throwers, for being able to kill my horsies in one or two hits, and clamoring for a nerf. I think, however, that the issue was not so much with the throwers (though I think they did do way too much damage, but entirely lacked any sort of accuracy, and often resorted to run-and-gunning with throwing axes. hense my rage at random HS's). Rather, it was--and still is--with low horse HP, but high maneuver/speed.

I very much would like to see throwing get buffed a bit. Needs moar standing-still accuracy (worse moving accuracy, though), slightly lower damage, and more ammo per stack. The current wpf requirements and PT shit is not liked by me. Why doth it not like the other weapons? PT is a requirement for higher-tier thrown weapons, and also increases damage, whereas wpf increases accuracy and rate of fire.
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Offline Chaos

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2011, 05:16:32 am »
0
I agree throwers got fisted, when they should only have been fingered, in the anus.

I remember raging at throwers, for being able to kill my horsies in one or two hits, and clamoring for a nerf. I think, however, that the issue was not so much with the throwers (though I think they did do way too much damage, but entirely lacked any sort of accuracy, and often resorted to run-and-gunning with throwing axes. hense my rage at random HS's). Rather, it was--and still is--with low horse HP, but high maneuver/speed.

I very much would like to see throwing get buffed a bit. Needs moar standing-still accuracy (worse moving accuracy, though), slightly lower damage, and more ammo per stack. The current wpf requirements and PT shit is not liked by me. Why doth it not like the other weapons? PT is a requirement for higher-tier thrown weapons, and also increases damage, whereas wpf increases accuracy and rate of fire.

+1
I agree with basically everything you said and the way you said it. I'll ignore the part about horses.

Offline Fasader

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 02:25:12 pm »
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The answer is "Yes, we could."
But it's getting buffed next item patch because it was evidently overnerfed.
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Offline Gnjus

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2011, 06:24:15 pm »
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Watching Coin & Pebbles throw i wouldn't say throwing is over-nerfed. Learn to play and stop crying, noobs.
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Offline Lichen

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2011, 07:35:43 pm »
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Watching Coin & Pebbles throw i wouldn't say throwing is over-nerfed. Learn to play and stop crying, noobs.
That's pretty much my attitude no matter what type of character I play. I have an agility thrower and a strength thrower. I do well with both. Balance is necessary to make the playing field as 'level' as possible but at that point it's up to the players to decide how to 'win' with individual skill & tactics. It shouldn't be easy for any 1 type of character. Skill should be the deciding factor. As I talked about in the main throwing thread throwing is pretty ok with me. Maybe some things here or there could be buffed slightly but it needs to be done VERY CAREFULLY because the best players will be even more deadly and I'm not sure what the threshold is for whining to re-commence. And I can't stand whining.

I don't want to play and everytime some crybaby is whining about being killed. There has been much less whining since the last patch and I'd like for it to stay that way.

One possible suggestion I have is make throwing lances 3 slots with 4 ammo. That way you get 2 more lance than now possible + an extra slot for whatever other throwing (or other) weap you want. Or just each lance takes 1 slot (4 max). Though in siege I can guarantee I'm going to get a lot of kills with 4 of them + my strength thrower....and then the whining..... But 4 max would be fine with me.

Offline Native_ATS

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2011, 10:39:58 pm »
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The answer is "Yes, we could."
But it's getting buffed next item patch because it was evidently overnerfed.
evidently you dont know what your doing
but it seems that your learning

Offline Fasader

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2011, 09:04:25 am »
0
You're right, I should give all throwing weapons +10 ammo, +50 damage and +100 accuracy just so you could finally kill people.
Oh and of course, they will have explosive ammo, something like Al_Adin's staff.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 09:06:48 am by Fasader »
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Offline Team_Jacob

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2011, 10:46:23 am »
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   Fasader, no reason to be so sarcastic and bash on throwers. Throwing now requires point investment that is comparable to archery and way more investment than crossbows (crossbows have higher accuracy than throwing at 0 wpf). Even though there is a high point investment, accuracy is never good and potential damage per spawn is abysmal. Hell, even a throwing lance as a dedicated thrower does less damage per shot than an arbalest with 0 point investment and you only get two lances total if you take a 0 slot melee weapon. Sure, you can argue that the arbalest takes a year to reload with 0 wpf, but with a dedicated crossbow build it reloads at a respectable speed. Not only that, but the light crossbow becomes a machine gun with high wpf and it still does similar damage to a dedicated thrower. Light crossbows will even out damage the most commonly and probably best potential damage per loadout throwing weapon, the heavy throwing axes.

   Anyone who thinks that throwing doesn't need some sort of buff is completely nuts. I completely fail to see how giving a dedicated thrower similar potential damage per loadout to a crossbow user or archer makes them overpowered. The argument before was that throwing was too easy to obtain so that it could be sprinkled into melee builds and there was spam everywhere. This argument is complete bullshit because crossbows can still be used to great effect for really good damage and accuracy with 0 wpf. With the new wpf system that mimics the power draw penalty for not having sufficient wpf, the argument for nerfing throwing because of pure melee using it isn't valid.

   The other traditional argument towards throwing is that it is too fast, therefore it would be unfair to give them more damage or ammo. The speed of throwing and deficiency in accuracy is what makes throwing different from crossbows and bows. It makes it very good for closing in on an enemy or chasing people down. If the speed must be nerfed and accuracy buffed (or left alone, whatever) for throwing to get the same potential damage as archers and crossbowmen, then so be it.

   Assuming you completely neglect a melee weapon you can take 32 throwing daggers for pitifully low cut damage, 16 war darts for pitifully low pierce damage, 8 heavy throwing axes for good cut damage, 8 throwing spears for good pierce damage, or 2 throwing lances for amazing pierce damage. Compare this to the same situation with bows and crossbows where an archer can take 45 (neglecting heirlooms) arrows for good cut damage or 30 arrows for good pierce damage or really good cut damage and a crossbowman can take the same numbers respectively.

   I have also heard rumors that throwing lances might be removed from the game because they do too much damage and can 1 shot people. This is another asinine argument because a throwing lance doesn't even do the same damage per shot as an arbalest. So if throwing lances get removed because they do too much damage per shot, then arbalest needs to be removed as well.

   To anyone who doubts that throwing needs more ammo in their loadout, please take a second and try out a pure throwing build. You will quickly notice that you have barely enough ammo to kill 2-3 lightly armored players or MAYBE 1 armored player if you're lucky. Most of the time due to accuracy issues you only end up killing about 1 person per death with throwing weapons and get most of your kills from either your backup melee weapon or a scavenged weapon. Compare that to someone simply having 7 strength and 0 wpf in crossbows and the crossbow can easily get 3-5 kills with a single stack of bolts. This also only takes up 2 slots when compared to a thrower usually taking up all of theirs.




Edit:

TLDR version for the ADD people: Throwing needs more potential damage per loadout so that dedicated throwers can be on par with archers and crossbowmen for damage potential. If you think otherwise you should try to be a dedicated thrower in the current game.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 10:49:36 am by Team_Jacob »

Offline Mala

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2011, 01:44:20 pm »
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... Not only that, but the light crossbow becomes a machine gun with high wpf and it still does similar damage to a dedicated thrower. Light crossbows will even out damage the most commonly and probably best potential damage per loadout throwing weapon, the heavy throwing axes.

...

Hmm, depending on my wpf i have needed from 5.5 to 6 seconds to fire a bolt and reload the next one, not that fast.
At the same time there is no reloading with throwing weapons.

Anyway, i think the main issue is the pure throwing option.
Hybrids are fine in my opinion, well except for the 2 slot javalins, jarids etc.
Just hurl your stuff at the enemies and wound them before you enter the melee zone.

Fulltime throwers are another story, they get no real profit out of thier high investment. But maybe they are just gimped build ideas like pure agi characters.

Offline Adamar

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2011, 01:49:24 pm »
-1
I dont know what this is all about. Im an archer and throwers keep headshooting me and spamming me with knives or shuriken. Perhaps people here dont know that throwing, like archery gets nerfed with the more armor you wear. If the devs decide to change that, I would have it too for my class.

Offline Team_Jacob

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2011, 01:59:14 pm »
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Hmm, depending on my wpf i have needed from 5.5 to 6 seconds to fire a bolt and reload the next one, not that fast.
At the same time there is no reloading with throwing weapons.

Anyway, i think the main issue is the pure throwing option.
Hybrids are fine in my opinion, well except for the 2 slot javalins, jarids etc.
Just hurl your stuff at the enemies and wound them before you enter the melee zone.

Fulltime throwers are another story, they get no real profit out of thier high investment. But maybe they are just gimped build ideas like pure agi characters.

Were you wearing armor? Crossbow wpf is affected by armor now. When I was trying them out I was wearing < 8 weight of armor.

I dont know what this is all about. Im a thrower and archers keep headshooting me and spamming me with arrows from farther away than I can hit. Perhaps people here dont know that archery, unlike throwing has enough ammo to kill 10+ people, and is accurate at much farther ranges, and fires nearly as fast, and does nearly as much damage.

Fixed.

Offline Templar_Ratigan

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2011, 04:28:21 pm »
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Watching Coin & Pebbles throw i wouldn't say throwing is over-nerfed. Learn to play and stop crying, noobs.

You are kidding right? Ccoin is a hybrid and pebble is one of the worst players ive ever seen, ive never seen him with a positive score and he often tk's his own team. Wouldnt mind if was good at stoning people but....... :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 04:40:44 pm by Templar_Ratigan »
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Offline Gorath

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2011, 05:23:31 pm »
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The level of whine between Native and Jacob has reached critical mass.
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Team_Jacob

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2011, 05:34:02 pm »
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The level of whine between Native and Jacob has reached critical mass.

I am simply giving my less biased views on the situation. I say less biased because I have tried pretty much every build there is, but I'm still a little biased because pure throwing is one of my favorites (or used to be at least). It seems to me that you need to drop the crossbow and actually try out throwing before bashing people that think it is broken.

Offline Gorath

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 05:39:02 pm »
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I am simply giving my less biased views on the situation. I say less biased because I have tried pretty much every build there is, but I'm still a little biased because pure throwing is one of the easiest playstyle's ever imo.  Perhaps you should try playing a build which requires skill before bashing other people on the forums.  Even archery would be a skill-based improvement.

*I can throw that sentance right back at you and it's just as true*
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?