I don't know about you, but being able to move while reloading is a pretty huge deal. So is the speed of the weapon. As an archer your rectile may be bigger than the one of a crossbowman because you're using a longbow instead of a Rus bow (which has an accuracy of 101 without heirlooming). Moving? It saves my life so many times, being able to dodge enemy missiles and run / kite plate wearers. As a crossbowman, you can't do that, that's why you have to have some sort of a melee hybird build to defend yourself. There was already posts about archer and crossbowman and how both are balanced with pros and cons. Nice job with the pictures though.
I don't know about you, but being able to move while reloading is a pretty huge deal. So is the speed of the weapon. As an archer your rectile may be bigger than the one of a crossbowman because you're using a longbow instead of a Rus bow (which has an accuracy of 101 without heirlooming). Moving? It saves my life so many times, being able to dodge enemy missiles and run / kite plate wearers. As a crossbowman, you can't do that, that's why you have to have some sort of a melee hybird build to defend yourself. There was already posts about archer and crossbowman and how both are balanced with pros and cons. Nice job with the pictures though.
hah, made me lol. you have convinced me to want xbows nerfed
so, what's the idea? buff archers?
no
hah, made me lol. you have convinced me to want xbows nerfed
Well archery is something that is hard to learn to be good at, as for xbows you pick one up and pull a triger
But yea balance>realism.
Still dont think archers should be buffed tho 8-)
anyonghaseyo Yuri-seonsangnim?
Archer justice hwaiting?
:mrgreen:
I can't wait to see DaveUKR respond to this, will most likely say that PD makes bows shoot as fast as arbalest......
What about nerf crossbows?
Why is there no innocent whistle emoticon?
And the xbowmen can jump and shoot accurately unlike an archer. The rus bow would not have been comparative at all for damage on anything mid-tier armor or above (like 1/10th health isntead of the 45-55% shown.) I see xbowmen dodge all the time and its really nice to be able to reload at leisure behind a crenellation/wall/tree/shielder/etc. and then pop out to shoot only when you choose to rather than having to go immediately as you draw back your bow wihtin a 1/4 second to shoot accurately. Much harder to dodge a fast travelling xbow bolt now than a slow moving arrow. May have been closer to balanced pre-last patch, but certainly not now.
The red part of the text is complete bullshit. Please don't post such stuff in here.
About projectile speed which seems to be a great whine subject:
so they had 13%-43% more (worst case, best case)
now they have 1% more (best case)
or 22% less (worst case)
(best case: MW longbow 10 PD vs regular arbalest)
(worst case: regular longbow 6 PD vs MW arbalest)
No, buff archers.
ie.
Increase the time a bow can aim accurately - alternatively, add pre notching.
Increase the effect of proficiency so that they can afford to spend points for 1h or 2h.
Decrease the effect of armour on accuracy.
Out of curiosity, since 10PD is impossible with a level 30 build due to wpf restrictions, what would 9PD do to those numbers?
The red part of the text is complete bullshit. Please don't post such stuff in here.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
About projectile speed which seems to be a great whine subject:
Don't forget
1 - higher chance to repair arrows
arbalest + 2xsteel bolts = 23922 cost
longbow + 2xbodkins = 21116 cost
archer armor cost = ~3000
crossbowman armor cost = ~8000
assuming they get a similar melee weapon.
that's ~31k for the xbowman
and ~34k for the archer if you count arrows double because of extra breakage
not much of a difference, before it was 31k vs 24k
but most xbowmen take a better melee weapon instead of another stack of bolts so it goes from 33k+ to 37k depending on what they take.2 - huge decrease of arrow speedthat is missile speed.3 - decreased arrow damage (for all bows except longbow)bolts have that too except for arbalest and heavy which got a small accuracy decrease instead4 - nerf to loomed bows (loomed bow do not receive bonus to weapon speed) -2 to speed or all MW bowscrossbows got -3 speed on MW
5 - increased weight of quivers <- arrows always had more weight than bolts because there's more of them and they're longer.6 - increased cost of equipmentevery upkeep got increased, not just bows.
Arrow speed is just the worst of the six dev fails
Uhm, the only reason the crossbowman gets that high on repair cost is because you add more armor that an archer can't dream of wearing. If you give them the same level of armor, the crossbowman is now at 26k.
If archers could wear 8000 worth of armor, they sure as hell would.
Should Katanas get double repair cost because ninjas run around with low armor?
Uhm, the only reason the crossbowman gets that high on repair cost is because you add more armor that an archer can't dream of wearing. If you give them the same level of armor, the crossbowman is now at 26k, versus 34k for the archer.
If archers could wear 8000 worth of armor, they sure as hell would.
Are you seriously saying you added extra repair costs to archers because their lack of ability to wear armor made them cheap to use? The ability to wear heavier armor is a luxury, not a burden. Archers would LOVE to be able to wear more expensive/heavier armor, like crossbowmen can.
Should Katanas get double repair cost because ninjas run around with low armor?
It's 28k-32k vs 34k, *points at last line of text*, not much of a difference, but the crossbowman has to engage into melee more often so he needs the armor more than the archer does.
Not one of the dev is mainly ranged spec, only alts, thats what annoys me the most.
(click to show/hide)
Wrong.
I have a solution for all ranged: make crossbow crosshairs same width as they were back in 2010. and bow crosshairs even more wide, while keep the realistic damage, all pierce for bows, etc, everything as it should be, the so called balance by realism. If archers want to be useful they will need to work as a team, not like ramboid sharpshooters. Most of these D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. roof & hill campers won't be able to hit shit (as it should be, except if they fire into big groups of enemies) and thus they will quit playing ranged classes and the game will balance itself out in no-time.
Wrong.
I have a solution for all ranged: make crossbow crosshairs same width as they were back in 2010. and bow crosshairs even more wide, while keep the realistic damage, all pierce for bows, etc, everything as it should be, the so called balance by realism. If archers want to be useful they will need to work as a team, not like ramboid sharpshooters. Most of these D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. roof & hill campers won't be able to hit shit (as it should be, except if they fire into big groups of enemies) and thus they will quit playing ranged classes and the game will balance itself out in no-time.
Xbow needed a nerf LAST patch. Doubly so this patch. Nerf the fuck out of them.
I'm fine with archery as it is. I always adapt enough to make the xbow loving Dev's cry and whine and invent new nerfs for us. :wink:
would be interesting to see a bow of the type torost suggest.I support that idea.
a fast firing, hard hitting bow, with crap accuracy and low missile speed. For lobbying volleys at the enemy positions.
Xbows got a nerf with this last patch, it takes forever and a day to reload now. I wish ranged would stand together a bit more, and try to get archery buffed back, rather than turning on each other and just trying to get all ranged nerfed to the same level of crap...
+1 for giving arrows their old speed back
would be interesting to see a bow of the type torost suggest.
a fast firing, hard hitting bow, with crap accuracy and low missile speed. For lobbying volleys at the enemy positions.
I have an archer that is going to have both 7 powerstrike and powerdraw, and prof in both 2 h and bow, right now its at level 20 somethings, works wonder.
Katanas already get double cost (not only repair) because of the weeaboo factor. ;)
2 hander? Way to not be an archer. They have to carry arrows you know :lol:
horn bow arrow longsword ----> horn bow arrow flamberge black plate armet heavy gauntlet black greaves, once I get the cash for the flamberge and the plate.
In reality ranged should be superiorPlay any standard FPS and this is already in place. lolknifing? Shotty to the face.
for game balance they should be equal.For the above it means that ranged damage must be MUCH lower in all around capability than melee damage, because it is ranged and therefore capable of killing from absolute safety at any time while melee has to get within arms reach.
2nd point: First lets dispell this myth: "before the patch archers were sharp shooters" Pre-patch we were anything but sharpshooters. I really don't think that people who don't play as archers get this. Pre-patch you were having a good day as an archer if 1 in every 4 of your arrows hit its mark. We always had crap accuracy which is why no pure archer build was ever one of the top 20 players (based off k/d ratio) of cRPG.
The Fallen archers do fight as archer squads, you should know that from the clan battles. We wounded or killed our prey with coordinated volleys at designated targets even then most of us would miss. Now... anyone can lazily move out of the way of our snail slow projectiles and even a mass of arrows is easily dodged. All the archery nerfs were bad but the biggest slap in the dick with this patch is that we do next to no damage now. So archery is a complete joke now that has no accuracy or damage output.
Being an archer in a coordinated squad is the most fun I've ever had in cRPG until the patch.. now it hurts to play.
Top 50 contains 2 archers and 1 xbow. You idiots can't see the forest for the trees.
Who wins games with an xbow? Who? I've never seen it.
On EU servers 70% of people shoot somethingShow me a screenshot of a full EU1 with 70% ranged, and I'll give you 100.000 gold.
Show me a screenshot of a full EU1 with 70% ranged, and I'll give you 100.000 gold.
No need to get all 120 in one screen. Just screenshot the names list and count 84 ranged players for me.
He's just gonna post the start of a battle game where all the ranged go to the one ranged vantage point while the melee spread out. It's always the same type of exaggeration and nonsense.
I don't think anyone is saying only 5% of players are archers. How about you try using actual arguments instead of fantasy extremes?
Wow, you got me there.
I play in AUS which has a skilled and wide range of players
With 1wpf in 2H i get most of my kills with a heavy bastard sword
I blame television, people probably imagine themselves (and want to be) like some lone romantic marksman like Legolas or Robin hood able to take down scores of people on their own with deadly accuracy from a mile away.
Then when they find out that they need to work in groups, kill horses, support their team they shout: OMG BUFF ARCHERY WHY AM I NOT LEGOLAND!!!1111one
:mrgreen:
I blame television, people probably imagine themselves (and want to be) like some lone romantic marksman like Legolas or Robin hood able to take down scores of people on their own with deadly accuracy from a mile away.
Then when they find out that they need to work in groups, kill horses, support their team they shout: OMG BUFF ARCHERY WHY AM I NOT LEGOLAND!!!1111one
:mrgreen:
(click to show/hide)
Tears will always fuel the change in crpg, happend to trowing, 2h, cav and now archery :lol:
Support this thread.
Archer nerf was unnecessary. At least in the scale it was given. If you're gonna nerf archers so that it's hard to kill someone out right, then you have to add assists to the score board and count for the K/D. The past couple of big patches really have nerfed them hard. I played a dedicated archer way back when I first joined and it was really easy. But now it's just nerfed to crap. As usual, it seems a class has been nerfed hard without the people who did it actually knowing what they are doing. Or being melee whiners themselves, can't handle a few arrows and just want to lolstab archers before they get killed.
Otherwise don't touch it.
You telling me the draw weight of a longbow at 120 pounds minimum (the draw weight that real longbows held in those times, 40 pounds more than an Olympic bow) in reality is weaker than the throw of a persons arm? No bloody way.
If you're gonna nerf archers so that it's hard to kill someone out right...
Longbow vs heavy armour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk
I suppose they wouldn't have padding under their helmet though!
Yes, I'm telling you that. Modern bows use modern materials and light arrows that allow them to reach speeds above 100 m/s even with a relatively low draw weight. Historic longbows with battle arrows shot at 60 m/s (like the crpg mundane longbow at minimum PD), which is already a rather high value. Most tests I saw with historic longbows managed to reach about 170fps(54 m/s). The reason why they had so much draw weight is because they had to shot heavy arrows to defeat armor.
Increasing the draw weight of a one material wooden bow like the long bow doesn't automaticly increase the arrow speed endlessly - even if with lowering the arrow weight. It seems to be limited by "spring speed" of the wooden bow. In fact I read about a draw weight "sweet spot" of about 140 pound for the longbow. After that performance (v0) doesn't increase much. If there really were longbows with 200 pound in use (which I doubt) then their job were to shoot heavy, possibly armor defeating arrows while they weren't able to shoot the lighter arrows of their lower draw weight cousins a lot faster.
One possible exception are historic composite bows. With light flight arrows rather high shot speeds of above 70 m/s should be possible. However with with heavy battle arrows their v0 and thus range is limited as well. Maybe in the future with WSE we might give the option to choose between lighter flight arrows (more speed, less friction), heavier battle arrows(slower, more friction) or hybrids.
Yes, I'm telling you that. Modern bows use modern materials and light arrows that allow them to reach speeds above 100 m/s even with a relatively low draw weight. Historic longbows with battle arrows shot at 60 m/s (like the crpg mundane longbow at minimum PD), which is already a rather high value. Most tests I saw with historic longbows managed to reach about 170fps(54 m/s). The reason why they had so much draw weight is because they had to shot heavy arrows to defeat armor.
Increasing the draw weight of a one material wooden bow like the long bow doesn't automaticly increase the arrow speed endlessly - even if with lowering the arrow weight. It seems to be limited by "spring speed" of the wooden bow. In fact I read about a draw weight "sweet spot" of about 140 pound for the longbow. After that performance (v0) doesn't increase much. If there really were longbows with 200 pound in use (which I doubt) then their job were to shoot heavy, possibly armor defeating arrows while they weren't able to shoot the lighter arrows of their lower draw weight cousins a lot faster.
One possible exception are historic composite bows. With light flight arrows rather high shot speeds of above 70 m/s should be possible. However with with heavy battle arrows their v0 and thus range is limited as well. Maybe in the future with WSE we might give the option to choose between lighter flight arrows (more speed, less friction), heavier battle arrows(slower, more friction) or hybrids.
I would like to out line that archers are allowed to carry decent melee weapons i know alot of you think a dedicated archer should be a medieval machine gun, but surely you realise that a dedicated archer build against well armoured opposition in a game that pushes the importance of shields you will die consistently. Why do i become a dickhead for knowing where my strengths are. I have never been an archer on CRPG before but i already know that if you don't hit your enemy in the head they will not drop. It doesn't make sense to me that as archers you would carry a weapon like a hammer wear no armour and get railed every time your team-mates die around you or your faced with a shield. I think in this game a good dedicated archer is an illustrious and false dream even with 10ps you will not get the 1 hits and tin can crushing effect you desire so carry a sword, wear armour and diversify. Alternatively become increasingly frustrated and end up another archer my old friend incapable of holding your own in combat.
YOUR CHOICE evolve or become extinct
I would like to out line that archers are allowed to carry decent melee weapons i know alot of you think a dedicated archer should be a medieval machine gun, but surely you realise that a dedicated archer build against well armoured opposition in a game that pushes the importance of shields you will die consistently. Why do i become a dickhead for knowing where my strengths are. I have never been an archer on CRPG before but i already know that if you don't hit your enemy in the head they will not drop. It doesn't make sense to me that as archers you would carry a weapon like a hammer wear no armour and get railed every time your team-mates die around you or your faced with a shield. I think in this game a good dedicated archer is an illustrious and false dream even with 10ps you will not get the 1 hits and tin can crushing effect you desire so carry a sword, wear armour and diversify. Alternatively become increasingly frustrated and end up another archer my old friend incapable of holding your own in combat.
YOUR CHOICE evolve or become extinct
So the entirety of this post is, archers should defend in melee, and not expect to one shot?
No one says that Archers should one shot...
to outline that shooting only is not viable. Hopefully someone can see what I am trying to outline.
No, the point of it is that owens has never played an archer in cRPG,yet feels that he is quite the expert in the field anyhow. Certainly he knows more about it than anyone who actually plays the class :rolleyes:
Why would you even mention kills made in melee as an archer? :|
Of course shooting is not the only viable option, but as an archer/HA fighting in melee should be a last resort.
Just as when you play cavalry, your goal should not be to dismount and engage in close quarters fighting.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
2. You can't create a STF archer.
Let me start by saying I have no hate for xbows (ok maybe a little but lets not let that cloud my point). Archery should be returned to pre-patch levels...we don't want a buff. I personally know that archery is the hardest major class to play post patch...which is why I can make this challenge.
I am offering 100k in gold to any non-archer main, that rolls an archer alt, and posts a positive kdr by reaching level 31. Rules: 1. You can't have an archer main. 2. You can't create a STF archer. 3. It must be a pure archer...all wpf's must be 1 except for archery.
*good luck and have fun...and feel free to post your experience(no matter how early you quit) on the forum.
Sincerely,
S. Patrick Walker
I am offering 100k in gold to any non-archer main, that rolls an archer alt, and posts a positive kdr by reaching level 31. Rules: 1. You can't have an archer main. 2. You can't create a STF archer. 3. It must be a pure archer...all wpf's must be 1 except for archery.
*good luck and have fun...and feel free to post your experience(no matter how early you quit) on the forum.
Sincerely,
S. Patrick Walker
look how many times do you miss given a longbow fires about 18 per minute that you need 36 arrows.
I understand you cannot fight in melee that is why your a dedicated archer but surely you realise that archers are far from useless at the moment this illusion is fed by archers unwillingness to allow for some melee at all this is crazy.
I don't think light armour like cavalry robe is that bad or that it effects accuracy to a large extent.
if anything the buff archers need is bastard swords being 1 slot.
Words
And more importantly i am one of the "good" players in AUS..AUS is still around? :?
on my oldest char owens ive got 1950 to 1780
Well, didn't really read the whole thread, but my main character is an archer and I still do quite well post-patch. I can still get long range shots with reasonable accuracy, and my KDR is usually alright. I'm a fairly average player in most respects and I honestly feel archery is still viable and quite fine with the latest patch. Maybe damage could use a little improvement though. FYI my char is a level 30 foot archer with 15/24, 5 power draw, 8 weapon master, 5 athletics, 5 power strike, 86 1h wpf, 160 archery wpf, using standard tatar bow and arrows.
I was not enthusiastic about the archery changes when they were proposed, but tbh I am having more fun as an archer in this patch than before.
How the hell is it more fun to be worse in several ways and no better in any others? That's absurd. Plus, that build, with that bow and those character stats are tragically low.
That build is an hybrid melee-ranged, that's why he feel less the nerfs of the last patch.
I promise i am better than you tears of Destiny.
And more importantly i am one of the "good" players in AUS.
TOD, don't feed the troll.
Cmon, just tell him that kangaroo and rabbit killing doesn't count.
How the hell is it more fun to be worse in several ways and no better in any others? That's absurd. Plus, that build, with that bow and those character stats are tragically low. Frankly, I just don't believe you. None of that makes any sense.More fun because it's more challenging to get long range shots than before, and less archery competition. As far as the build goes, it was made back when archery still did piercing damage with every bow. It's a fairly crappy build nowadays but I hold my own in melee and the accuracy is very good. Weaker bows are easier to aim.
Crossbows however are overpowered in my book, I'm not gonna restate facts that were already given, but crossbows atm are the best ranged class in my opinion. They deal too much damage for the accuracy that is given to them, and the heirlooms are just making it more insane. Take the pictures in the OP into account with +13 pierce damage from a loomed arbalest+steel bolts. You don't see those numbers on any of the other ranged classes.
More fun because it's more challenging to get long range shots than before, and less archery competition. As far as the build goes, it was made back when archery still did piercing damage with every bow. It's a fairly crappy build nowadays but I hold my own in melee and the accuracy is very good. Weaker bows are easier to aim.
You are forgetting some things:(click to show/hide)
I will even expand on this. As the op stated, an archer can fire 18 shots per minute. An xbowman, 8.
8*100p = 800p per minute. = 13.3dps
18*77p = 1386p per minute. = 23.1dps
Also! While Im here can some one tell me if the arrows pierce damage is actually pierce if it is used in cut damage bow or no?
You are forgetting some things:
a. Archers are way less accurate than crossbowman
b. You will never fire all those arrows immediatly after each other, this is not WoW where you attack all the time
c. The whole point of it being imbalanced is that they deal too much damage in one shot
d. This is why percentages have nothing to do with balance
Same reason why lancers got nerfed, cuz they could onehit people, except not from a big range. With the recent archery nerf, crossbows are in the top position yet again.
Intardasting:
Kills
[15:07] <Fasader> last week on EU1,2,5
[15:08] <Fasader> One handed: 38369 (20.60%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Two handed: 72257 (38.79%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Polearms: 42647 (22.90%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Bow: 15466 (8.30%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Crossbows: 8220 (4.41%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Thrown: 1042 (0.56%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Headshot: 7221 (3.88%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Others: 1048 (0.56%)
Those 80% are pretty bad at using their xbows. Also lol at thrown.
Do we need the server statistics again? The ones showing that xbow kills account for less than 5% of deaths? I think we do.We are talking about this patch, not previous ones. Even though your statistics are irrelevant for balance, your statistics are old and not about this patch. Check the date, june 03.
Amusingly posted in a thread claiming that 80% of people use crossbows. Note how Bows account for nearly twice as many kills. Buy a shield, or alternatively, stop running in a straight line.
We are talking about this patch, not previous ones. Even though your statistics are irrelevant for balance, your statistics are old and not about this patch. Check the date, june 03.
And yes, not 80% is crossbower lol. But crossbows definatly deal too much damage in one shot and they definatly lack any need of weapon points for dealing damage.
Do we need the server statistics again? The ones showing that xbow kills account for less than 5% of deaths? I think we do.
Amusingly posted in a thread claiming that 80% of people use crossbows. Note how Bows account for nearly twice as many kills. Buy a shield, or alternatively, stop running in a straight line.
DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????
Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed: 47578 (25.96%)
Two handed: 51864 (28.30%)
Polearms: 51689 (28.20%)
Bow: 13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows: 7563 (4.13%)
Thrown: 1978 (1.08%)
Headshot: 6630 (3.62%)
horsebump: 1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others: 62 (0.03%)
1.1. I can say they are irrelevant, Fasader posted new ones, which are relevant, because if you nerf archers, that will have an impact on crossbowmen in the long run. Besides that, most kills are made by meleers backstabbing and clusterfucking the enemy.(click to show/hide)
2.(click to show/hide)
3.(click to show/hide)
1. I can say they are irrelevant, Fasader posted new ones, which are relevant, because if you nerf archers, that will have an impact on crossbowmen in the long run. Besides that, most kills are made by meleers backstabbing and clusterfucking the enemy.
I also wonder if statistics actually mean anything, since only level 30 characters should be taken into account, but that's never the case, since not everyone on the servers is that level.
Why should statistics include only level 30 characters? Doesn't make any sense, you are a shielder whether you're level 25 or 30, its not like by hitting the magical number 30 you suddenly change class and make the statistics irrelevant. I dare to say the only reason you call them irrelevant is because they don't support your cause. I can imagine that if crossbows were first in those statistics, you would consider it hard evidence and demand crossbow nerf even harder.Not really, but balance is always done by finished builds and their effectiveness. If a peasant swings his cudgel and doesn't damage anyone, he isn't gonna complain that armour is OP.
Sorry to pick at stats as an end all...but you have to also figure out the #of xbows and the #of bows during that week. For example if there are 1000 bows that are playing and 500 xbows that are playing, then you would have to double the xbows' kills in order to see a balance representation.
Sincerely,
S. Patrick Walker
DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????
Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed: 47578 (25.96%)
Two handed: 51864 (28.30%)
Polearms: 51689 (28.20%)
Bow: 13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows: 7563 (4.13%)
Thrown: 1978 (1.08%)
Headshot: 6630 (3.62%)
horsebump: 1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others: 62 (0.03%)
1. I can say they are irrelevant, Fasader posted new ones, which are relevant, because if you nerf archers, that will have an impact on crossbowmen in the long run. Besides that, most kills are made by meleers backstabbing and clusterfucking the enemy.Statistics mean nothing when they do not support your opinion.
I also wonder if statistics actually mean anything, since only level 30 characters should be taken into account, but that's never the case, since not everyone on the servers is that level.
2. That is an internal problem within the crossbow class, as I said, don't only nerf the arbalest, but nerf them all. Your argument that other stuff can onehit too, is irrelevant, since opponent's wear varied body armours and other factors that come into play. Your first sentence also made me laugh, why should anything onehit when it's a ranged weapon? This should only be the case with headshots. All other classes have to get in close to even attempt a onehit, and melee most of the time now fails to do so.Have you played anything outside Warband? Are you aware how common it is for a game to have a 'slow but lethal' weapon? Especially games which have a leaning to realism. Warband, and crpg do have a leaning to realism. Mimicking the historical lethality of the xbow is entirely justified, especially when they mimic the lethality of melee combat. As I have said to you before, and you have always ignored, invest in shield. You will have no difficulty getting in close. I don't hold to nerfing a class because of your utter lack of practicality or inability to adapt.
3. That's your own faultIt's your own fault you get shot.
Statistics mean nothing when they do not support your opinion.1. They do, unless they are irrelevant.
Have you played anything outside Warband? Are you aware how common it is for a game to have a 'slow but lethal' weapon? Especially games which have a leaning to realism. Warband, and crpg do have a leaning to realism. Mimicking the historical lethality of the xbow is entirely justified, especially when they mimic the lethality of melee combat. As I have said to you before, and you have always ignored, invest in shield. You will have no difficulty getting in close. I don't hold to nerfing a class because of your utter lack of practicality or inability to adapt.
It's your own fault you get shot.
Exquisite arbalest, steel bolts (91p) vs 53 body armour.
Distance = 15m
Health after each shot.
10%
Kill
15%
20%
40%
30%
30%
20%
5%
20%
This is too much, is it?
53 body armor and 8 IF 24 Str ? :rolleyes:Never seen This MadJack guy play on EU, so I guess he's from NA where all those silly players go for strength builds.
The percentage of health remaining is irrelevant if you don't tell us how much life the guy had in the beginning. :mrgreen:
Never seen This MadJack guy play on EU, so I guess he's from NA where all those silly players go for strength builds.
You shoot faster = then the xbow :?: either way you will never see a xbow nerf aslong as Fasader is on the dev team no point in trying.
Xbows are GREAT defensive items. Bows are more offensive. You can shoot 2 to 3 timer faster then a xbowman so archers are a superior supressive weapon. Most maps on NA are closed city maps that FAVOR xbowmen because they have more defensive cover. On EU I think thier are more OPEN maps that favor an archer and his superior supressive powers. Start bitching at NA server owners to put more OPEN maps! I also prefer open maps because I like Horses! Remember this game is called MOUNT and blade!
Very few NA players like that wooden fort map with the two towers connected by a bridge.
Hmn why havent throwing been mentioned....Because throwing is fine and actually not meant for medium to long range combat.
Xbows are the only ranged my old friendotry thats OP
With mw war darts and 7 pt i had to use 7 war darts on guy in Blue Tunic over Mail thats retardedThis thread is comparing long range classes, not the close in shotgun style of throwing that at best can be used at medium range.
No way... You posted the correct differences between a bow and a crossbow! This only happens on these forums once every two months, I better mark this moment down on the calendar.
EDIT: For the record, the official NA servers use the same maps as EU does, though I am hoping to remove a select few of them... Very few NA players like that wooden fort map with the two towers connected by a bridge.
I like to take your word for it, but I have never seen the open Eu field maps on NA, and there are some truly bad "slap some buildings together, add clutter, add more clutter just to reduce framerate" maps that exist on NA that thankfully never appear on EU.
CRPG NA ie the ATS servers are the official ones right? EU1 is one of the officla EU ones right? Difference in map lineup is like night and day, unless it changed very recently.
Can people stop saying that arblast can 1 shot people in light armour? I have no looms and I can't 1 shot an archer who's wearing the nord noble out fit which only has about 8 armour or something
Ya, I get 1 shot all the time on my lightly armored characters.
Ya, I get 1 shot all the time on my lightly armored characters.
And the xbowmen can jump and shoot accurately unlike an archer. The rus bow would not have been comparative at all for damage on anything mid-tier armor or above (like 1/10th health isntead of the 45-55% shown.) I see xbowmen dodge all the time and its really nice to be able to reload at leisure behind a crenellation/wall/tree/shielder/etc. and then pop out to shoot only when you choose to rather than having to go immediately as you draw back your bow wihtin a 1/4 second to shoot accurately. Much harder to dodge a fast travelling xbow bolt now than a slow moving arrow. May have been closer to balanced pre-last patch, but certainly not now.
:rolleyes:
How? It happens. Its a statistical possibility. Saying stuff like "your lightly armor characters are fail characters then" makes no logical sense whatsoever.
I thought damage was not a constant known 'exact' amount but had a 'range' of min/max/average that it COULD do. This could explain why one guy complains about being 1 shotted, 1 hit by whatever wearing a certain item with a certain build while another isn't. Maybe a dev can confirm that damage does indeed have a random factor. If so that would clear up a lot of confusion.
Fact:
The unloomed Arbalest w/Steel Bolts can one-shot characters in light armor (~30 armor), but will not always do so. It's impossible to get more specific without specifying conditions much more precisely.
I thought damage was not a constant known 'exact' amount but had a 'range' of min/max/average that it COULD do.Yes, that's why I said "The unloomed Arbalest w/Steel Bolts can one-shot characters in light armor (~30 armor), but will not always do so"
(Raw) damage is randomised sligthly(0.9-1.0) but both of the following armor soak and reduce calculation armor is randomised by 0.5 to 1.0. So with higher the armor level the target has, the wider is the possible damage range.
Example:
MW Arbalest with MW steel bolts -> base_damage = 100p
against naked, point blank, body shot:
90 to 100 damage (aka certain death)
against 30 armor, point blank, body shot:
55 to 81 damage, 67 avr, damage span = 81 - 55 = 26
against 50 armor, point blank, body shot:
38 to 70 damage, 52 avr, damage span = 70 - 38 = 32
against 70 armor, point blank, body shot:
25 to 61 damage, 40 avr, damage span = 61 - 25 = 36
Can people stop saying that arblast can 1 shot people in light armour? I have no looms and I can't 1 shot an archer who's wearing the nord noble out fit which only has about 8 armour or something
Cool Story Bro =D.
This shows the complete reality of xbows compared to archery.
Although An Archer could beat an Xbowmen in a duel, they are both very evenly balanced.
Archers shouldn't be forced to fight in melee. It's not their purpose. That's like suggesting an HA should also be a 1h shield cav. It makes no sense and you shouldn't force dedicated range builds to have to fight in melee in order to be effective.
If you just removed crossbows from the game, then everything would be fine. It would not be missed.
It would bring blissful balance. Alternativly change the role of bows, so that they are usable in the same way as crossbows. Something you bring alongside your heave armour and 2hand/polearm.
Crossbows can do anything bows can do, just better and with less skill involved.
Just comparing stats is useless.. it is the sum of all the small things that favor crossbows that make them so effective.
Ability to have more armour, wield a decent meleeweapon with skillpoints in PS and WPF. Reload behind cover vs drawing the bow in the open. Great accuracy. infinite time to aim and release vs the 0.5sec window a bowman has. Bolts travel faster, less chance target has changed course/moved. Hits harder and faster.
Crossbows are usable and effective on the early levels, archers are not doing any good before lvl 20-25
You have to be a really dedicated and skilled player to be a useful archer,
Any meleeplayer can be just as effective by picking up a 1slot crossbow + 1 pack of bolts in the 2 free slots after your fav polearm or shield+1hand.
Here are my impressions from xbows:Just went from MW warbow/strongbow(around a year of archery)+ MW bodkins to MW steel bolts+ MW arbalest..... this shit is just sick, with 15/24 and with this armor (lordly wisby + reinf.cuir=63armor), 5PS, 170WPF in xbows, 8 ath I can do wonders, I am goddamn stunned by might of xbows, its true that I'm still far from timing good shots at medium range (too much archery, massive brainderp due to proj speed change) but sooner or later I will learn, ability to onehit 4 out of 5 archers at medium/longrange is also very sweet and the accuracy (+170wpf) allows me to somewhat reliably make hits on enemys from half map distance if they are still/running in a straight line, I can also outrun almost everyone including archers. Plz buff xbows :lol:
If you look at strategus too, its definitely the easy mode class where you can get super-high k/ds because you can hide on these huge maps and easily make halfway acrosss the map shots with the arbalest's current shoot speed. The cost really has never been a factor, you just buy ten and you reuse them by going back and picking them up where you dropped them when you die, which is pretty easy since you were usually hiding far away from any actual fighting.
Pretty much cav and xbowmen top the charts in most strategus battles.
Cav yes, xbows, no. Aside from a few really good xbowers, Archers usually just dominate. (Especially when guys like you, S walker and others are in the game.) The arbalest may shoot across the map, but the ammount of difficulty it takes to actually hit someone from that range is another matter entirely. Also, considering that we only get 12-15 bolts in a match, one will be much more reluctant to try and take too many of those shots, especially with the reload speeds. I've been messing with both bolts and bows alot lately and tbh, after I got the build figured out, archery was pretty much just as easy as Xbows granted it was a bit different being that it was a bow. I honestly can't even imagine how much easier longbowing must have been back when you could shoot across the map with the right stats. Not having to worry about rain was also a big bonus.
Just played archer the other day, for the first time in ages. To me it seems more damaging than I remembered (5 PD, 161 archery, regular horn bow, regular tatar arrows). Firing on the move, and being able to move while reloading is major advantages compared to xbows. I would say that bows are a lot better in low-populated servers compared to xbows, while crossbowmen are better at high-populated servers.Archers indeed deal more damage than before because of speed bonuses.
I'm actually considering going archer again.
Siege crossbow + steel bolts do 65 pierce in native versus 100 pierce in cRPG.That's why I say, make a hybrid of these two figures.
Indeed. Slightly.
I wish people would stop trying to equalize them to the point where a bow is a mini-crossbow and an crossbow is a mini-bow as that removes the point of having two distinct classes in the first place. If anything archer needs a light buff in the form of the removal of the absolutely ridiculous upkeep penalty for actually using arrows, but other than that xbows and bows are starting to fall in line in terms of utility and unique advantages- which is awesome.
As a polearm guy, I fear archers, because they can kite me all day.
X-bowmen can't, so they usually have to be some kind of melee hybrid.
I think both classes are pretty balanced compared to each other and the game in general right now.
I don't think anyone in fallen's archer devision is a str build. And even if they are that just makes trying to catch them even more frustrating.:shock:
If a Loki is a str build and is able to kite a 7th athl lightly armored char in DarkKarma. Then I must be doing something wrong. :oops:
Not many kills by sniping but running into melee and using my xbow as a shotgun works great.
Just made a STF char :
15/24 sniper xbowman
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 24
Hit points: 54
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 2
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 0
Athletics: 8
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 173
Throwing: 1
Currently using a light xbow and a mace. You don't need wpf at all to use that weapon and 5PS is more than enough to be a real threat in melee. I don't have the money for the arbalest yet but I already do kills with the light xbow despite my total lack of experience. Not many kills by sniping but running into melee and using my xbow as a shotgun works great.
My archer alt was way more difficult to play.
That's not playing a crossbowman, that's playing gimped melee with a form of ranged. You could use the same tactic with the light crossbow and all wpf in 2h and be more effective.
Yup, and with 1wpf those suckers will break more then 11% of the time as opposed to the 2.5-ish% at 140 wpf...
An* Arbalest is just AWP with 26 oneshot cartridges.As has been consistently proven elsewhere by myself and others, with references to situations, statistics and weapon code:
Thats why you see too many 40\2 statistics at siege. Just because you have unlimited time to aim, awesome accuracy, extreme projectile speed and oneshooting weapon.People like myself, DaveUKR and others, have been playing as an Arbalester since you were still on your mother's teat. So it is no stretch to presume that we, through our lifeless dedication to the class, can occasionally achieve such scores. However it is a stretch to presume that all 40 of these 40 kills were made by the Arbalest. Based on my own experiences, the Arbalest accounts for on average, a half to two thirds of my kills. More interestingly, my current K:D is 249/131. Which suggests I do not frequent the 20/1 cloud as often as you suggest I should. Damn.
Also I would like to know - who said that crossbows in medieval times was so damn accurate? Any links, proofs?I haven't the disposition to trawl through databases of articles for your benefit. It will have to suffice for me to say, the amount of whine they generate here and now is very much historically accurate.
Kafein your entire post highlights the problems with the Hybrid mace. Which in fact, I entirely agree with. It is a little too good. The other Hybrid weapons are not however.(click to show/hide)
I haven't the disposition to trawl through databases of articles for your benefit. It will have to suffice for me to say, the amount of whine they generate here and now is very much historically accurate.
Good chance to penetrate shields (no one weapon have this ability) if you know where to aim
1. Xbows do much more damage in cRPG than in Native.Please clearly state what you desire. Do you wish crossbows to be removed entirely? Do you wish their damage to be decreased - which would in effect remove them: Sever statistics show that crossbows account for 5% of deaths. Would you like that to be 2.5% instead - so that one death in fifty is by crossbow?
Yes, Native is just FPS now, we all hate Native. Only cRPG is melee oasis. But stop - xbows in cRPG do 33% more damage. Long live FPS!
2. In your point of view Arbalest is balanced yet still have:I am glad to see you delved into such detail with your one and only disadvantage of the Arbalest. Had you not, one may think you were as bias as you claim I am. I will give you a few more statistics to choke on. An Arbalest is in fact out damaged by a Longbow over time. At optimum damage (Point Blank vs Naked Chest) an Arbalest can dish out 13dps. A Longbow can do 23dps (due to a rate of fire over twice as fast). Granted an Arbalest is the most damaging weapon in the game . . . point blank. However once range comes into the equation, the sting of the Arbalest begins to drop quite swiftly. A MW Arbalest loaded with MW Bolts will not hit you for 100p at long, medium or even short range. It will only do so if the bolt is already touching your chest when it is fired.
Best range in game
Best projectile speed in game
Best damage in game
Best accuracy in game
No skill requirements (so you can make 15\27 monkey runner character, but still can use most damaging weapon in game)
Good quantity of ammunition
Good chance to penetrate shields (no one weapon have this ability) if you know where to aim
And only one negative future - weapon speed
Maybe this explanation works when you talking with your mother . . .It certainly worked with yours. But japes aside, the strongest Arbalests were 5000lbf and reportedly could be accurate up to 90m, depending on weather. You can trust the referenced words of Wikipedia, or you can claim to know better. Up to you.
lol, accurate at 900m. try to be accurate at 400m with an iron sighted rifle which has about ten times the v0.
the main reason why arbalest is fine is that using it with 1 wpf will make you lose gold rapidly due the increased break chance.
Standard Loadout.
Arbalest
Steel Bolts
Fighting Axe
Kettle Helmet
Kuyak (light)
Leather Gloves
Rus Cavalry Boots
43,710 value.
The Arbalest is the most expensive piece, coming in now at 1300 abouts to repair. I am reliably gaining money even with the increases, so I do not see an issue. I am not generally a cynical person . . . but it strikes me that most of the complaints are coming from people who seem to believe that if they cannot wear plate every round and make a profit, then there is something wrong with the system.
If the issue is with cavalry perhaps a system where Horse upkeep is decreased based on riding skill. Not by too much however, it still must be more expensive than foot.
See?
Please clearly state what you desire. Do you wish crossbows to be removed entirely? Do you wish their damage to be decreased - which would in effect remove them: Sever statistics show that crossbows account for 5% of deaths. Would you like that to be 2.5% instead - so that one death in fifty is by crossbow?
Example:
MW Arbalest with MW steel bolts -> base_damage = 100p
against naked, point blank, body shot:
90 to 100 damage (aka certain death)
against 30 (body) armor, point blank, body shot:
55 to 81 damage, 67 avr, damage span = 81 - 55 = 26
against 50 armor, point blank, body shot:
38 to 70 damage, 52 avr, damage span = 70 - 38 = 32
against 70 armor, point blank, body shot:
25 to 61 damage, 40 avr, damage span = 61 - 25 = 36
But japes aside, the strongest Arbalests were 5000lbfomg...
I point you to the 2h hammers ovehead attack
At firstPeople do not like to get shot, and the rate of fire was unrealistic. When the rate of fire was lowered the damage was increased to compensate. If this had not been done, then crossbows would account for 2.5% of deaths, rather than their current 5%.
I do not understand why xbows in cRPG thus much better than xbows in Native. How you can justufy it?
At secondAre you or are you not ignoring the fact that Paul's statistics are taken from point blank range? A range, which I should add, ranged players commonly try to avoid. I cannot parry with a crossbow and an opponent is unlikely to relent his attack to allow me to reload.
This info from Paul just confirm that mw Arbales and MW Bolts can oneshot you even in 70 armor, even if you have 15str and 5IF. Also speed\height bonus doesn't count there. And you are bad ranged player if you do not use this advantages.
BobtheheroPoint me to the crossbow that can do it from 50m. Unless the shield in question is low quality.
Point me to the Hammer, that can do it from 50m.
Standard Loadout.
Arbalest
Steel Bolts
Fighting Axe
Kettle Helmet
Kuyak (light)
Leather Gloves
Rus Cavalry Boots
43,710 value.
The Arbalest is the most expensive piece, coming in now at 1300 abouts to repair. I am reliably gaining money even with the increases, so I do not see an issue. I am not generally a cynical person . . . but it strikes me that most of the complaints are coming from people who seem to believe that if they cannot wear plate every round and make a profit, then there is something wrong with the system.
If the issue is with cavalry perhaps a system where Horse upkeep is decreased based on riding skill. Not by too much however, it still must be more expensive than foot.
Sorry Paul, but price is not the future of weapon. And even not an argument in this discussion
Your loadout cost 34,307 gold. Do not mislead people.
And yes, I want to see this 5000lbf crossbow too. Incredible researching.
Even this thingy has only 4800lbf - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Lapua_Magnum
Masterwork Arbalest
Steel Bolts
Tempered Langes Messer
Kettle Helmet
Haubergeon
Leather Gloves
Rus Cavalry Boots
People do not like to get shot, and the rate of fire was unrealistic. When the rate of fire was lowered the damage was increased to compensate. If this had not been done, then crossbows would account for 2.5% of deaths, rather than their current 5%.
People do not like to get shot, and the rate of fire was unrealistic. When the rate of fire was lowered the damage was increased to compensate. If this had not been done, then crossbows would account for 2.5% of deaths, rather than their current 5%.The number of kills made by crossbows is not a relevant balance figure unless you also know the share of people using crossbows (dedicated).
I see your idea about decreasing rate of fire but add damage perfectly working with xbows. In cRPG xbow lost 20 weapon speed but receive + 20 to damage.
Can you tell me why this idea do not working with bows? Bows speed was reduced by 20-30 weapn speed for all bows. Projectile speed was reduced by 40%. Accuracy was reduced with new wpf system. Damage was greatly reduced with cut damage bows. Arrows quantity was reduced. And many more. We have 8 bows, but at least 4 of them is useless trash. What do you think Grumpy - how «Fair» this is?
I see your idea about decreasing rate of fire but add damage perfectly working with xbows. In cRPG xbow lost 20 weapon speed but receive + 20 to damage.
Can you tell me why this idea do not working with bows? Bows speed was reduced by 20-30 weapn speed for all bows. Projectile speed was reduced by 40%. Accuracy was reduced with new wpf system. Damage was greatly reduced with cut damage bows. Arrows quantity was reduced. And many more. We have 8 bows, but at least 4 of them is useless trash. What do you think Grumpy - how «Fair» this is?
Please clearly state what you desire. Do you wish crossbows to be removed entirely? Do you wish their damage to be decreased - which would in effect remove them: Sever statistics show that crossbows account for 5% of deaths. Would you like that to be 2.5% instead - so that one death in fifty is by crossbow?
I have been hearing those stats for 3 months now. they are outdated with the current patch and are likely significantly higher now because of the changes made.
I have been hearing those stats for 3 months now. they are outdated with the current patch and are likely significantly higher now because of the changes made.
DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????
Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed: 47578 (25.96%)
Two handed: 51864 (28.30%)
Polearms: 51689 (28.20%)
Bow: 13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows: 7563 (4.13%)
Thrown: 1978 (1.08%)
Headshot: 6630 (3.62%)
horsebump: 1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others: 62 (0.03%)
Try less than one month.
Do you have a more recent one as more and more people switched to xbow?? I know that was either just before or just after the latest patch. Also, I dont know about EU but the xbow population on NA has doubled since then but it took a few weeks.
Do you have a more recent one as more and more people switched to xbow?? I know that was either just before or just after the latest patch. Also, I dont know about EU but the xbow population on NA has doubled since then but it took a few weeks.25th to 31st july (eu1)
25th to 31st july (eu1)
Bow: 12851 (7.52%)
Crossbows: 7599 (4.45%)
Thrown: 2130 (1.25%)
Headshot: 6277 (3.68%)
1st to 7th august (eu1)
Bow: 12010 (7.06%)
Crossbows: 8560 (5.03%)
Thrown: 2067 (1.22%)
Headshot: 6172 (3.63%)
8th to 13th august (eu1)
Bow: 4812 (6.66%)
Crossbows: 3102 (4.29%)
Thrown: 866 (1.20%)
Headshot: 2373 (3.28%)
last week is kind of bad for statistics because of lag or whatever eu1 has usually only about 20ish people online.
(click to show/hide)
Your avatar is fucked up. Your argument in invalid.
Says the xbower :wink:
I have a L28 xbowman with nonloomed arbalest+ steel bolts.. the accuracy is almost pinpoint and decent dmg, rarley onehitting anyone with non-peasant armor and with 1h/2h mace its pretty efficent in melee too... today I picked up a MW arbalest+ MW steel bolts on my piker.. made 7 shots, 7 hits 6 kills at short/medium range with 1 wpf.... this thing is a goddamn elephant killer.
Didnt expect looms to make such a difference..
Look what I found Mte.
Now Mtemtko uses his own arbalest, and arbalest become underpowered somehow.
Thing is. Dedicated archers with 0 PS and 0 WPF its very hard too melee, so we try to avoid it
What do you mean by dedicated, I guess? My favorite archer build is 18/18, favoring a smaller, faster firing bow, having 6 points in Powerdraw, Athletics, Weapon Master, and Power Strike and the remainder in IF or whatever, putting all prof into archery. Fast firing, decently hard hitting, 1 slot bow + 2 quivers + 1slot (I preferred 1hand iberian mace) melee = viable at range against light to high medium armor wearers, viable in melee with 6ps and blunt.
This.
Also, with the new patch ranged/melee "hybrids" have become, in a sense, more powerful.
The changes to armor values "buffed" health. Considering that you now get less glances, but also less damage per hit, being low on health is now more of a disadvantage. Getting your opponent low with ranged, and then finishing him off with melee is now a great tactic, and much less boring than running for 5 mins yelling "BUT I'M SUPPORT!!!oneoneone"
Look what I found Mte.
Now Mtemtko uses his own arbalest, and arbalest become underpowered somehow.
Thos statistics are shit anyways. Go play EU 1 on primetime. And count the xbows....
So "This raw data and math is shit. Instead you should use this anecdotal evidence to base claims by."As has been stated a gazillion times, and again by Fasader above, the number of kills by any given weapon is a meaningless statistic without knowing how many people use that weapon in a dedicated fashion.
:lol:
As has been stated a gazillion times, and again by Fasader above, the number of kills by any given weapon is a meaningless statistic without knowing how many people use that weapon in a dedicated fashion.
If 10% of players are dedicated crossbowers, 4% of kills indicates crossbows are underpowered. If 1% of players are dedicated crossbowers, 4% of kills indicates crossbows are overpowered. Unless we know how many people are crossbowers, two diametrically opposite conclusions can be drawn from the same statistics.
As has been stated a gazillion times, and again by Fasader above, the number of kills by any given weapon is a meaningless statistic without knowing how many people use that weapon in a dedicated fashion.
If 10% of players are dedicated crossbowers, 4% of kills indicates crossbows are underpowered. If 1% of players are dedicated crossbowers, 4% of kills indicates crossbows are overpowered. Unless we know how many people are crossbowers, two diametrically opposite conclusions can be drawn from the same statistics.
But apparently EVERYONE IS AN XBOW USER! So wouldn't this mean that xbows are VASTLY underpowered?
:mrgreen:
This isn't right either. A more accurate assessment would compare damage output per weapon on the field.I never said it was accurate. That's why I chose extreme examples. Also, the point was not to present an accurate formula for determining weapon balance, the point was to highlight how utterly meaningless "% of kills" stats are without knowing the other variables.
What do you mean by dedicated, I guess? My favorite archer build is 18/18, favoring a smaller, faster firing bow, having 6 points in Powerdraw, Athletics, Weapon Master, and Power Strike and the remainder in IF or whatever, putting all prof into archery. Fast firing, decently hard hitting, 1 slot bow + 2 quivers + 1slot (I preferred 1hand iberian mace) melee = viable at range against light to high medium armor wearers, viable in melee with 6ps and blunt.
I personally think it would be nice, if xbows had a PD requirement, or a more suitable skillname requirement.
Would be awesome if PD became a requirement for xbows. 5 PD is what... +40% damage?
I dont know for archers, i thoguht it was 8% for each PD.... but archers have been changed many times.. i lost track.
8% PS, 10% PT, 14% PD.
Yep, but I though the dev messed up with these values at one point?
I personally think it would be nice, if xbows had a PD requirement, or a more suitable skillname requirement.
Would be awesome if PD became a requirement for xbows. 5 PD is what... +40% damage?
The archer is simply not fun to play anymore. And players are leaving.
Personally I've seen more people become archers than change from archery to something else.
Personally I've seen more people become archers than change from archery to something else.
Personally I've seen more people become archers than change from archery to something else.
70% of the players using a longbow are sellouts! Learn to make kills without it you ranged bastards! I bet you would use the DGS if you were melee! Ugh...
Personally I've seen more people become archers than change from archery to something else.
Having been an xbowman for a while now I decided to try being an archer with a STF char. My conclusions are that if you take the xbows as being balanced vs melee (which I think they are) then the high end bows are definitely a little underpowered in terms of missile speed but they are too accurate.I'm still messing around with a stf archer by slowly increasing stats and testing but I know that the higher powerdraw the greater arrow speed. So if the general arrow speed of bows is increased high PD archers will also have faster speeds.
...but they are too accurate.