Meet the Archer and Crossbowwoman!

[Magikarp]

Do we need the server statistics again?  The ones showing that xbow kills account for less than 5% of deaths?  I think we do.

Amusingly posted in a thread claiming that 80% of people use crossbows.  Note how Bows account for nearly twice as many kills.  Buy a shield, or alternatively, stop running in a straight line.

We are talking about this patch, not previous ones. Even though your statistics are irrelevant for balance, your statistics are old and not about this patch. Check the date, june 03.

And yes, not 80% is crossbower lol. But crossbows definatly deal too much damage in one shot and they definatly lack any need of weapon points for dealing damage.

[Torost]

Counting kill:death is of no use.
Archers now can only kill off peasants and other archers, essentially doing a job not needed.
And pick off severly wounded (<15% life left) meleeplayers.
So the K:D numbers is just counting how many peasants were on the server while you were playing.

Think if you wanted to swing your sword, had to press.. wait 4 sec for sword to chamber, release wait 2 sec before the swing landed.
In the meantime your target has moved, put up the appropriate block, a friend has stepped inbetween and u tk him.
And if you get a miracle and hit him, you just have to hit him 10 more times to fininsh him.
That is , if he doesnt hit you ONCE, and kill you.

And all this theoretical 18 arrows a min x dmg calculations are just drivel.
You never get to just stand and release arrows into a target.
You have to be constantly on the move, keep up with the mainforce, else cav/melee will get you fast.
Its damn hard to get a clean shot ,since you can not fire when there is friendly players in the proximity of the target.  They will always run into the arrowpath, and circledance.

It takes all the fun out of the game.......

edit: Bob you are a retard ...

 When you slow down the speed of the bow and missile to snailspeed, it becomes a bore and impossible to play, it takes forever to do simple task like shoot an arrow. This is esp irritating when the accuracy is scheit, since you just have to fire on whim and hope to hit 25% of the time, even with well aimed shots. You have to have jediskills now to predict where the zigzagdancing 2hander will be when the arrow reaches its target.

 

[Bobthehero]

Thats a bullshitty comparision and you are even more filled with the same bullshit, the guy in front cant fight back, you can pew pew all day frigging long without the other fucker being able to do fuck all, so fuck off.

[MadJackMcMad]

We are talking about this patch, not previous ones. Even though your statistics are irrelevant for balance, your statistics are old and not about this patch. Check the date, june 03.

And yes, not 80% is crossbower lol. But crossbows definatly deal too much damage in one shot and they definatly lack any need of weapon points for dealing damage.

Sorry, but you cannot simply say they are irrelevant.  You must give a reason for this bias assertion.  Please explain, if crossbows are so absurdly overpowered, if they kill in one shot all the time, why then do they only account for a meagre 5% of deaths?  Explain it.  Furthermore, the fact that this data is over a month old does not detract from it's value.  The only change I can recall from the 9th of june to crossbows, is a removal of speed bonus from heirloom.  So explain, please, why statistics taken today would be radically different?  Granted, bows may be, but crossbows . . . I severely doubt it.

An arbalest should have the capacity to kill in one shot.  Otherwise, you remove it from the game.  If it can only kill in two, then it is rendered obsolete by the faster heavy crossbow, which can also kill in two shots (and then even the crossbow).  I have been shot from 15m by a masterwork arbalest using masterwork bolts.  I lived, with 44 body armour, 15 strength and 0 Ironflesh.  Using an arbalest, I have shot, and merely wounded a peasant wearing a Nobleman's Outfit.  At 10m.  The damage of this weapon is absurdly varied, and so it should be.  If someone invests 6 heirlooms into a single weapon, I do not think it absurd to grant that weapon a certain level of lethality.

With my 44 body armour, I am frequently 1hit killed in melee.  I do not come on here and bleat like a fat ewe.  I accept it.  My character invested heavily in ranged ability, and as a result, my melee survivability is limited.  I imagine you are the type of person who thinks that there should be no trade off to investing nothing in shield?  Well there is, you get shot more.  Balance.  You trade some survivability for melee lethality.  I trade melee lethality for ranged lethality.  Furthermore, melee lethality is not entirely nullified by 4 points in shield and half a brain to point in the right direction.

[Fasader]

Do we need the server statistics again?  The ones showing that xbow kills account for less than 5% of deaths?  I think we do.

Amusingly posted in a thread claiming that 80% of people use crossbows.  Note how Bows account for nearly twice as many kills.  Buy a shield, or alternatively, stop running in a straight line.

DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????

Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed:         47578 (25.96%)
Two handed:        51864 (28.30%)
Polearms:         51689 (28.20%)
Bow:            13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows:          7563 (4.13%)
Thrown:          1978 (1.08%)
Headshot:          6630 (3.62%)
horsebump:          1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others:            62 (0.03%)

[Gorath]

DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????

Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed:         47578 (25.96%)
Two handed:        51864 (28.30%)
Polearms:         51689 (28.20%)
Bow:            13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows:          7563 (4.13%)
Thrown:          1978 (1.08%)
Headshot:          6630 (3.62%)
horsebump:          1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others:            62 (0.03%)

Everyone should stop being a pleb and bitching about x-bows now.

*+1 to nerfing cav nao*

[Vibe]

NERF OTHERS

[Magikarp]

1.

(click to show/hide)

.Sorry, but you cannot simply say they are irrelevant.  You must give a reason for this bias assertion.  Please explain, if crossbows are so absurdly overpowered, if they kill in one shot all the time, why then do they only account for a meagre 5% of deaths?  Explain it.  Furthermore, the fact that this data is over a month old does not detract from it's value.  The only change I can recall from the 9th of june to crossbows, is a removal of speed bonus from heirloom.  So explain, please, why statistics taken today would be radically different?  Granted, bows may be, but crossbows . . . I severely doubt it.

2.

(click to show/hide)

An arbalest should have the capacity to kill in one shot.  Otherwise, you remove it from the game.  If it can only kill in two, then it is rendered obsolete by the faster heavy crossbow, which can also kill in two shots (and then even the crossbow).  I have been shot from 15m by a masterwork arbalest using masterwork bolts.  I lived, with 44 body armour, 15 strength and 0 Ironflesh.  Using an arbalest, I have shot, and merely wounded a peasant wearing a Nobleman's Outfit.  At 10m.  The damage of this weapon is absurdly varied, and so it should be.  If someone invests 6 heirlooms into a single weapon, I do not think it absurd to grant that weapon a certain level of lethality.

3.

(click to show/hide)

My character invested heavily in ranged ability, and as a result, my melee survivability is limited.

1. I can say they are irrelevant, Fasader posted new ones, which are relevant, because if you nerf archers, that will have an impact on crossbowmen in the long run. Besides that, most kills are made by meleers backstabbing and clusterfucking the enemy.
I also wonder if statistics actually mean anything, since only level 30 characters should be taken into account, but that's never the case, since not everyone on the servers is that level.

2. That is an internal problem within the crossbow class, as I said, don't only nerf the arbalest, but nerf them all. Your argument that other stuff can onehit too, is irrelevant, since opponent's wear varied body armours and other factors that come into play. Your first sentence also made me laugh, why should anything onehit when it's a ranged weapon? This should only be the case with headshots. All other classes have to get in close to even attempt a onehit, and melee most of the time now fails to do so.

3. That's your own fault, if you don't invest into melee nor wear the appropriate armour, than you will not be effective in melee (like my own build). The best build atm is one where the crossbowman can still do good in melee, as shown by most of them ingame. THis mainly being a big advantage when it comes to the comparison archer-crossbowman.

~Magikarp

[Nemeth]

1. I can say they are irrelevant, Fasader posted new ones, which are relevant, because if you nerf archers, that will have an impact on crossbowmen in the long run. Besides that, most kills are made by meleers backstabbing and clusterfucking the enemy.
I also wonder if statistics actually mean anything, since only level 30 characters should be taken into account, but that's never the case, since not everyone on the servers is that level.

Why should statistics include only level 30 characters? Doesn't make any sense, you are a shielder whether you're level 25 or 30, its not like by hitting the magical number 30 you suddenly change class and make the statistics irrelevant. I dare to say the only reason you call them irrelevant is because they don't support your cause. I can imagine that if crossbows were first in those statistics, you would consider it hard evidence and demand crossbow nerf even harder.

[Magikarp]

Why should statistics include only level 30 characters? Doesn't make any sense, you are a shielder whether you're level 25 or 30, its not like by hitting the magical number 30 you suddenly change class and make the statistics irrelevant. I dare to say the only reason you call them irrelevant is because they don't support your cause. I can imagine that if crossbows were first in those statistics, you would consider it hard evidence and demand crossbow nerf even harder.

Not really, but balance is always done by finished builds and their effectiveness. If a peasant swings his cudgel and doesn't damage anyone, he isn't gonna complain that armour is OP.

[sWalker]

Sorry to pick at stats as an end all...but you have to also figure out the #of xbows and the #of bows during that week.  For example if there are 1000 bows that are playing and 500 xbows that are playing, then you would have to double the xbows' kills in order to see a balance representation.

Sincerely,
S. Patrick Walker

[CoWorm]

Sorry to pick at stats as an end all...but you have to also figure out the #of xbows and the #of bows during that week.  For example if there are 1000 bows that are playing and 500 xbows that are playing, then you would have to double the xbows' kills in order to see a balance representation.

Sincerely,
S. Patrick Walker

Well according to the lobbyist here on the forum (and they NEVER lie) about 80% of the playerbase uses a crossbow. So seeing as they only get about 4% of the kills I think a buff is in order.

[DrKronic]

ok the real quesion is how many USERS of each weapon and whats the CORRELATION BETWEEN how many USERS and base kills

I.E. 35% used 2h but only got 28% of kills, vs 22% used polearms but also 28% of kills=polearms stronger than 2h, 20% used 1h but got 26% of kills etc

also what weapon users caused most headshots?

that raw data without population stats doesn't really reveal anything at all

DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????

Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed:         47578 (25.96%)
Two handed:        51864 (28.30%)
Polearms:         51689 (28.20%)
Bow:            13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows:          7563 (4.13%)
Thrown:          1978 (1.08%)
Headshot:          6630 (3.62%)
horsebump:          1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others:            62 (0.03%)

[MadJackMcMad]

1. I can say they are irrelevant, Fasader posted new ones, which are relevant, because if you nerf archers, that will have an impact on crossbowmen in the long run. Besides that, most kills are made by meleers backstabbing and clusterfucking the enemy.
I also wonder if statistics actually mean anything, since only level 30 characters should be taken into account, but that's never the case, since not everyone on the servers is that level.

Statistics mean nothing when they do not support your opinion.

2. That is an internal problem within the crossbow class, as I said, don't only nerf the arbalest, but nerf them all. Your argument that other stuff can onehit too, is irrelevant, since opponent's wear varied body armours and other factors that come into play. Your first sentence also made me laugh, why should anything onehit when it's a ranged weapon? This should only be the case with headshots. All other classes have to get in close to even attempt a onehit, and melee most of the time now fails to do so.

Have you played anything outside Warband?  Are you aware how common it is for a game to have a 'slow but lethal' weapon?  Especially games which have a leaning to realism.  Warband, and crpg do have a leaning to realism.  Mimicking the historical lethality of the xbow is entirely justified, especially when they mimic the lethality of melee combat.  As I have said to you before, and you have always ignored, invest in shield.  You will have no difficulty getting in close.  I don't hold to nerfing a class because of your utter lack of practicality or inability to adapt.

3. That's your own fault

It's your own fault you get shot.

[Tzar]

You shoot faster = then the xbow  : either way you will never see a xbow nerf aslong as Fasader is on the dev team no point in trying.