Meet the Archer and Crossbowwoman!

[Seawied]

A little bit of this

How the hell is it more fun to be worse in several ways and no better in any others? That's absurd. Plus, that build, with that bow and those character stats are tragically low.

and probably a bit of this

That build is an hybrid melee-ranged, that's why he feel less the nerfs of the last patch.

before bias is called, yes I do have an archer character, which im seconds away from retiring and switching builds... but that decision was made before the nerf. The latest patch just a bit of reassurance that it was the right call.

[Tears of Destiny]

I promise i am better than you tears of Destiny.
And more importantly i am one of the "good" players in AUS.

First off, AUS is terrible if you are one of the top AUS players and that is your KD as it is absolute god aweful donkey as an archer who extensively melees. Our archery melee hybrids have a much better K/D ratio (just check www.nacrpg.net and search for our key players to find the KD ratios).

Secondly, it becomes obvious that you have absolutely no clue what the donkey you are talking about if you bother saying "I promise i am better than you tears of Destiny." This proves that you have absolutely no idea who I even am and are just overly arrogant. There is no player in his right mind that would bother saying that if he knew me, as I am a terrible terrible archer and everyone who plays NA knows this. Hell, most of the EU players know this. For you to even have to say "I promise i am better than you tears of Destiny." means you are just blowing steam. Not even our newest players on NA bother saying crap like that to me... This is like me going around boasting "I can arm wrestle and win against your 5 year old nephew" well yeah... I hope so...

But seriously man, you have that K/D ratio and you are bragging?
To name just the first Melee Archer Hybrid that comes to Mind, Kesh_BRD:
Kills: 9095
Deaths: 4423
KDR: 2.0563
Kill Streak 22

So if you are the cream of the crop for AUS then AUS is absolutely donkey terrible... but that was kinda obvious the instant you said ""I promise i am better than you tears of Destiny."

[Vibe]

TOD, don't feed the troll.

[Magikarp]

Before bias is called, I'd like to state that I have played every single class I will take about here on my main with masterworked items. I also have alts on these classes. Ive also bolded the key words for faster reading.

First of all, I think archers are fine in this patch, maybe a little tweaking buff is in order, but they are still pretty much viable.

Throwing? Inaccurate but finally dealing considerable and stable damage. They are fine in my book now.

Crossbows however are overpowered in my book, I'm not gonna restate facts that were already given, but crossbows atm are the best ranged class in my opinion. They deal too much damage for the accuracy that is given to them, and the heirlooms are just making it more insane. Take the pictures in the OP into account with +13 pierce damage from a loomed arbalest+steel bolts. You don't see those numbers on any of the other ranged classes.


Rain, ah yes, rain, rain makes the crossbow class balanced? Hell no. It has a small impact on their performance, in my opinion it should even be removed.

Options ranked on my personal preference(1 being best, 3 being worst):

1. Heirloom nerf to the Xbows, damage nerf across the board.

2. Crossbows are given their own powerdraw/throw skill, this way: a. 0 weaponpoint xbows will be gone and b. crossbows will be on par in builds with throwers and archers. In combination with a smaller heirloom nerf.

3. Accuracy nerf to crossbows, weapon points give less accuracy and reloading speed.

~Magikarp

[Tears of Destiny]

TOD, don't feed the troll.

Drama over the newest NA_Strategus server has died down... forums are boring... need moar... drama...

*drags over another few bags of troll food*

[Okkam]

Cmon, just tell him that kangaroo and rabbit killing doesn't count.

[Tears of Destiny]

Cmon, just tell him that kangaroo and rabbit killing doesn't count.

Odd fact: Australia has the largest camel population in the world.

[Vibe]

put sum shrimp on dat barbie

[Shik]

How the hell is it more fun to be worse in several ways and no better in any others? That's absurd. Plus, that build, with that bow and those character stats are tragically low. Frankly, I just don't believe you. None of that makes any sense.

More fun because it's more challenging to get long range shots than before, and less archery competition. As far as the build goes, it was made back when archery still did piercing damage with every bow. It's a fairly crappy build nowadays but I hold my own in melee and the accuracy is very good. Weaker bows are easier to aim.

[MadJackMcMad]

Crossbows however are overpowered in my book, I'm not gonna restate facts that were already given, but crossbows atm are the best ranged class in my opinion. They deal too much damage for the accuracy that is given to them, and the heirlooms are just making it more insane. Take the pictures in the OP into account with +13 pierce damage from a loomed arbalest+steel bolts. You don't see those numbers on any of the other ranged classes.

As posted by Paul in reply to you elsewhere:

EXAMPLE ITEM

Level 30 crossbowman with arbalest+steel bolts.
price: 18796+2263=21059

Mundane:
base damage: 79p + 8p = 87p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 87p + 13p = 100p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

damage difference: 100p-87p=13p
percentage increase: 100p/87p * 100% - 100% = 15%

Level 30 archer with 18 str, 6 PS and 150 wpf using a longbow + bodkin arrows
price: 9974+5058=15032

Mundane:
base damage: 26p + 6p = 32p
final damage: 67p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 29p + 8p = 37p
final damage: 77p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

damage difference: 77p-67p=10p
percentage increase: 77p/67p * 100% - 100% = 15%


-------

I will even expand on this.  As the op stated, an archer can fire 18 shots per minute.  An xbowman, 8.

8*100p = 800p per minute. = 13.3dps

18*77p = 1386p per minute. = 23.1dps

[Garem]

More fun because it's more challenging to get long range shots than before, and less archery competition. As far as the build goes, it was made back when archery still did piercing damage with every bow. It's a fairly crappy build nowadays but I hold my own in melee and the accuracy is very good. Weaker bows are easier to aim.

If you're using the same build that you used LAST YEAR, then holy hell, and I mean no offense, but you're not exactly in touch with how archery works in the year 2011. The build isn't viable in the slightest. You're not an archer at all, you're a melee character with a bow for shits and giggles.

Regardless, what you're saying doesn't apply to what we're talking about anyways, and it's not a "challenge" at all, since shooting at long ranges is not effective or cost-worthy of arrows. So call it a challenge if you want, my point is that the very thing you call a challenge is just a waste of an arrow to a true archer under normal conditions because of this awful nerf.

Plus, if you want a "fun challenge", try rolling a pure archer. Take away your melee and you'll see what everyone here is talking about. Those long range shots of yours aren't hurting anyone, even if it's fun to fill people with arrows. But hey, at least you've got melee to fall back on. We TRUE archers, we don't have that luxury. Step into our shoes- now, those long range shots (which STILL did far less damage than close shots) are virtually impossible against anything but a non-moving target that doesn't see you aiming and they aren't even worth wasting arrows on since damage is so pathetic at that range anyways.

[Magikarp]

(click to show/hide)

As posted by Paul in reply to you elsewhere:

EXAMPLE ITEM

Level 30 crossbowman with arbalest+steel bolts.
price: 18796+2263=21059

Mundane:
base damage: 79p + 8p = 87p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 87p + 13p = 100p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

damage difference: 100p-87p=13p
percentage increase: 100p/87p * 100% - 100% = 15%

Level 30 archer with 18 str, 6 PS and 150 wpf using a longbow + bodkin arrows
price: 9974+5058=15032

Mundane:
base damage: 26p + 6p = 32p
final damage: 67p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 29p + 8p = 37p
final damage: 77p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

damage difference: 77p-67p=10p
percentage increase: 77p/67p * 100% - 100% = 15%


-------

I will even expand on this.  As the op stated, an archer can fire 18 shots per minute.  An xbowman, 8.

8*100p = 800p per minute. = 13.3dps

18*77p = 1386p per minute. = 23.1dps

You are forgetting some things:

a. Archers are way less accurate than crossbowman
b. You will never fire all those arrows immediatly after each other, this is not WoW where you attack all the time
c. The whole point of it being imbalanced is that they deal too much damage in one shot
d. This is why percentages have nothing to do with balance

Same reason why lancers got nerfed, cuz they could onehit people, except not from a big range. With the recent archery nerf, crossbows are in the top position yet again.

[Lordark]

heres my 2 cents


Archers are more important in strategus because of its siege like tendencies then in regular battle servers. I been archer only because of strat and after a year of waiting I'm glad its finally here.

If the devs can make the archer speed penalty 15% ish instead of 30% and maybe give armor more durability then I think every 1 could be happier.

Also im gonna start carrying regular arrows instead of the pricer 1 cuz I saw on Tears of destiny's picture that arrows only take 12 gold upkeep penalty than

barbed or tartar, or bodkins which are in the hundreds.

Also! While Im here can some one tell me if the arrows pierce damage is actually pierce if it is used in cut damage bow or no?

[Tears of Destiny]

Also! While Im here can some one tell me if the arrows pierce damage is actually pierce if it is used in cut damage bow or no?

The damage is dictated by the bow used, not the ammunition. 

[MadJackMcMad]

You are forgetting some things:

a. Archers are way less accurate than crossbowman
b. You will never fire all those arrows immediatly after each other, this is not WoW where you attack all the time
c. The whole point of it being imbalanced is that they deal too much damage in one shot
d. This is why percentages have nothing to do with balance

Same reason why lancers got nerfed, cuz they could onehit people, except not from a big range. With the recent archery nerf, crossbows are in the top position yet again.

Do we need the server statistics again?  The ones showing that xbow kills account for less than 5% of deaths?  I think we do.

Intardasting:

Kills
[15:07] <Fasader> last week on EU1,2,5
[15:08] <Fasader> One handed: 38369 (20.60%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Two handed: 72257 (38.79%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Polearms: 42647 (22.90%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Bow: 15466 (8.30%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Crossbows: 8220 (4.41%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Thrown: 1042 (0.56%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Headshot: 7221 (3.88%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Others: 1048 (0.56%)

Those 80% are pretty bad at using their xbows. Also lol at thrown.

Amusingly posted in a thread claiming that 80% of people use crossbows.  Note how Bows account for nearly twice as many kills.  Buy a shield, or alternatively, stop running in a straight line.