Meet the Archer and Crossbowwoman!

[Keshian]

As a polearm guy, I fear archers, because they can kite me all day.

X-bowmen can't, so they usually have to be some kind of melee hybrid.

I think both classes are pretty balanced compared to each other and the game in general right now.

Actually mosta rchers have to go strength build to do any kind of decent damage, especially with any cut bow so they tend to be slower.  Whereas I have been seeing a lot of xbowers with 15-24 build with 8 athletics running away reloading very quickly with 150+ wpf and then shooting through shields with their arbalest or normal xbow and then running away to relaod again.  You get 3 xbowmen like that together its worse than 3 archers because the aiming is easier and it shoots through shields.

[Darkkarma]

I don't think anyone in fallen's archer devision is a str build. And even if they are that just makes trying to catch them even more frustrating. I was running around on My friend RonnieRAPIST's shielder guy chasing those them around the other day. In his Lordly Milanese Plate and with around 5-6 IF one of Loki's arrows did roughly 1/4 damage from a pretty good distance (something that could normally 2 shot or even one shot Karma (a 1 shot is so freaking rare though, it almost not worth mentioning.) At least when said crossbowmen miss the person being kited has a window of time to at least try and close the distance. A Fallen fire line of the same number will have you full of 3-4 well place, powerful arrows before you even know what hit you, god forbid you don't have a shield.

[Tears of Destiny]

I don't think anyone in fallen's archer devision is a str build. And even if they are that just makes trying to catch them even more frustrating.

(click to show/hide)

 

[Darkkarma]

If a Loki is a str build and is able to kite a 7th athl lightly armored char in DarkKarma. Then I must be doing something wrong. 

[Tears of Destiny]

If a Loki is a str build and is able to kite a 7th athl lightly armored char in DarkKarma. Then I must be doing something wrong. 

The Fallen Brigade has perfected down to a science of nearly everything to do with our Archer Tactics, such as athletics performance on different slopes rain and water, exactly how much weight slows you down, and so on so forth as well as sneaky tricks to run faster then silly melee/other archers can.

I think the average player is "doing it wrong." 


We have a 14 page manual on the forums dedicated to "How to kite the living shit out of a pleb and kill him in the process" as well as weekly trainings on it.

[The_Angle]

This deserves attention, quickly. Bump!

[Kafein]

Just made a STF char :

15/24 sniper xbowman

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24
    Hit points: 54

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 2
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 8
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 173
    Throwing: 1

Currently using a light xbow and a mace. You don't need wpf at all to use that weapon and 5PS is more than enough to be a real threat in melee. I don't have the money for the arbalest yet but I already do kills with the light xbow despite my total lack of experience. Not many kills by sniping but running into melee and using my xbow as a shotgun works great.

My archer alt was way more difficult to play.

[Spawny]

Not many kills by sniping but running into melee and using my xbow as a shotgun works great.

That's not playing a crossbowman, that's playing gimped melee with a form of ranged. You could use the same tactic with the light crossbow and all wpf in 2h and be more effective.

[Darkkarma]

Just made a STF char :

15/24 sniper xbowman

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24
    Hit points: 54

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 2
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 8
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 173
    Throwing: 1

Currently using a light xbow and a mace. You don't need wpf at all to use that weapon and 5PS is more than enough to be a real threat in melee. I don't have the money for the arbalest yet but I already do kills with the light xbow despite my total lack of experience. Not many kills by sniping but running into melee and using my xbow as a shotgun works great.

My archer alt was way more difficult to play.

Crossbows are a bit better for hybrid fighting. Even then, with a mace you won't really beat too many people that you wouldn't have beaten on your melee alt anyway. I crushed guys in melee all the time on my STF archer alt with an iberian mace. Higher/similar lvl dedicated melee fighters however, you almost always lose to. Killing peasants and lower level guys with somewhat decent gear is one thing, but that shouldn't be factored too heavily on which playstyle is easier. I'd also wager that you get 1-shotted a fair amount of the time and your natural skill as a melee fighter is the only thing keeping you afloat KDR-wise (although i'm sure you're not topping the scoreboards with the tactic you mentioned.

[Shinobi]

That's not playing a crossbowman, that's playing gimped melee with a form of ranged. You could use the same tactic with the light crossbow and all wpf in 2h and be more effective.

/this

Its also what's wrong with xbows right now, anyone can pick them up and use them to there max dmg while the same thing cant be applied to throwing for example. Try picking up and use my throwinglance with no wp and pt points and see what happens

Get a shotgun today, they are easy to use and no training needed! 

[Tears of Destiny]

Yup, and with 1wpf those suckers will break more then 11% of the time as opposed to the 2.5-ish% at 140 wpf...

[MadJackMcMad]

Yup, and with 1wpf those suckers will break more then 11% of the time as opposed to the 2.5-ish% at 140 wpf...

Tested?  This is a load of shite if it's true.  140+ should be around 2.5% yes, but 1 should be up and around 50%.

[Okkam]

Someone else notice, that MW Light Crossbow + MW steel Bolts do as much damage as Siege Crossbow in Native?
And Arbalest is just AWP with 26 oneshot cartridges.
What balance do you speak of?

Thats why you see too many 40\2 statistics at siege. Just because you have unlimited time to aim, awesome accuracy, extreme projectile speed and oneshooting weapon.
Do not forget about Shield penetrating, pierce damage, standart repair rate of bolts, ability to hide when reloading.
And NO skillpoints.

Also I would like to know - who said that crossbows in medieval times was so damn accurate? Any links, proofs?

[Kafein]

With 172 xbow wpf, I'm a real sniper with an arbalest. People drop like flies.

My point was, I'm nearly as good as a pure melee char with my 1wpf 5PS mace and 24 agi. The mace is incredibly OP in the hands of agi builds because of  the 30 blunt damage and knockdown. In duel it works great, but even more in group fights. I can fight one guy, then disengage and go backstab another one. I can also just run when there are too much of them.

I was often playing shotgun-like with the light xbow because I have troubles getting the firing angle right. Now with the snipergun I can start shooting from far away.

I'm not topping the scoreboard at all. My stats are :

Kills52
Deaths39

So yeah nothing to brag about. But I'm a total noob of this so I guess I'll improve fast if I'm playing it actively.


So if there's something to nerf with xbows (and I think a nerf is needed), it's the melee capacity. For example, increasing the str requirements of xbows, increasing their weight and weight of bolts, nerfing 1 slot 2handers.

[MadJackMcMad]

An* Arbalest is just AWP with 26 oneshot cartridges.

As has been consistently proven elsewhere by myself and others, with references to situations, statistics and weapon code:

NO IT ISN'T

Thats why you see too many 40\2 statistics at siege. Just because you have unlimited time to aim, awesome accuracy, extreme projectile speed and oneshooting weapon.

People like myself, DaveUKR and others, have been playing as an Arbalester since you were still on your mother's teat.  So it is no stretch to presume that we, through our lifeless dedication to the class, can occasionally achieve such scores.  However it is a stretch to presume that all 40 of these 40 kills were made by the Arbalest.  Based on my own experiences, the Arbalest accounts for on average, a half to two thirds of my kills.  More interestingly, my current K:D is 249/131.  Which suggests I do not frequent the 20/1 cloud as often as you suggest I should.  Damn.

I'd also like to expand on your admission that this was on Siege.  As a counterbalance, I witness Lancer Cavalry achieving similar scores on Battle.  Certain maps and certain Game Types are beneficial to certain classes.  This is known.  What also is known is that a personal high K:D will not win the battle, but merely elongate one's epenis.

Also I would like to know - who said that crossbows in medieval times was so damn accurate? Any links, proofs?

I haven't the disposition to trawl through databases of articles for your benefit.  It will have to suffice for me to say,  the amount of whine they generate here and now is very much historically accurate.

(click to show/hide)

With 172 xbow wpf, I'm a real sniper with an arbalest. People drop like flies.

My point was, I'm nearly as good as a pure melee char with my 1wpf 5PS mace and 24 agi. The mace is incredibly OP in the hands of agi builds because of  the 30 blunt damage and knockdown. In duel it works great, but even more in group fights. I can fight one guy, then disengage and go backstab another one. I can also just run when there are too much of them.

I was often playing shotgun-like with the light xbow because I have troubles getting the firing angle right. Now with the snipergun I can start shooting from far away.

I'm not topping the scoreboard at all. My stats are :

Kills52
Deaths39

So yeah nothing to brag about. But I'm a total noob of this so I guess I'll improve fast if I'm playing it actively.


So if there's something to nerf with xbows (and I think a nerf is needed), it's the melee capacity. For example, increasing the str requirements of xbows, increasing their weight and weight of bolts, nerfing 1 slot 2handers.

Kafein your entire post highlights the problems with the Hybrid mace.  Which in fact, I entirely agree with.  It is a little too good.  The other Hybrid weapons are not however.