Meet the Archer and Crossbowwoman!

[MadJackMcMad]

Archers should be as accurate as crossbowmen of equal proficiency.

[Lichen]

Fact:
The unloomed Arbalest w/Steel Bolts can one-shot characters in light armor (~30 armor), but will not always do so. It's impossible to get more specific without specifying conditions much more precisely.

I thought damage was not a constant known 'exact' amount but had a 'range' of min/max/average that it COULD do. This could explain why one guy complains about being 1 shotted, 1 hit by whatever wearing a certain item with a certain build while another isn't. Maybe a dev can confirm that damage does indeed have a random factor. If so that would clear up a lot of confusion.

[Nemeth]

It was confirmed many times that damage calculation has a random factor. If I remember correctly, it's a random number between 0.5-1 times armor.

EDIT:

(click to show/hide)

cRPG uses the Native values for armor soak and reduce calculation. They influence how much damage gets through after a hit. Armor soak reduces the incoming damage by an armor depended value that is not scaled with the amount of incoming damage. The soak is mostly responsible for the glancing blows since it often lowers the incoming damage below the interrupt threshold, allowing the target to continue their action even while being struck. Because within the calculation the used armor value is randomized heavily (50%-100%) glancing blows are often frustratingly unpredictable. Fighting against a berserked tin can with a 1h sword with low PS is often enough rather luck-dependant that way because a glance means death if the opponent keeps swing no matter what.

This is from before the patch when the armor thingy got changed so you dont glance that often though. So it might not be true anymore.

[Elerion]

I thought damage was not a constant known 'exact' amount but had a 'range' of min/max/average that it COULD do.

Yes, that's why I said "The unloomed Arbalest w/Steel Bolts can one-shot characters in light armor (~30 armor), but will not always do so"

To be precise the base damage from two shots made at the same distance/height is always constant, but the armor reduction has a variable range. The shot damage will also be affected by the missile speed lost during flight and the speed of the target relative to the missile.

[Paul]

(Raw) damage is randomised sligthly(0.9-1.0) but both of the following armor soak and reduce calculation armor is randomised by 0.5 to 1.0. So with higher the armor level the target has, the wider is the possible damage range.

Example:
MW Arbalest with MW steel bolts -> base_damage = 100p

against naked, point blank, body shot:
90 to 100 damage (aka certain death)

against 30 (body) armor, point blank, body shot:
55 to 81 damage, 67 avr, damage span = 81 - 55 = 26

against 50 armor, point blank, body shot:
38 to 70 damage, 52 avr, damage span = 70 - 38 = 32

against 70 armor, point blank, body shot:
25 to 61 damage, 40 avr, damage span = 61 - 25 = 36

[Spawny]

(Raw) damage is randomised sligthly(0.9-1.0) but both of the following armor soak and reduce calculation armor is randomised by 0.5 to 1.0. So with higher the armor level the target has, the wider is the possible damage range.

Example:
MW Arbalest with MW steel bolts -> base_damage = 100p

against naked, point blank, body shot:
90 to 100 damage (aka certain death)

against 30 armor, point blank, body shot:
55 to 81 damage, 67 avr, damage span = 81 - 55 = 26

against 50 armor, point blank, body shot:
38 to 70 damage, 52 avr, damage span = 70 - 38 = 32

against 70 armor, point blank, body shot:
25 to 61 damage, 40 avr, damage span = 61 - 25 = 36

This explains perfectly why it took me 3 point blank body shots to kill Tommy with about 65 body armour.

[Jacko]

Spawny: No, that's cause Tommy cheats. He actually has a force field.

Nerf Tommy!

[RagnarLodbroke]

Can people stop saying that arblast can 1 shot people in light armour? I have no looms and I can't 1 shot an archer who's wearing the nord noble out fit which only has about 8 armour or something

eeehhm, i was on the siege server today, im wearing the heraldic mail with tabard about 43 body armor+ leather gloves that means 45 body armor!
GUess what, i got 1 hitted by a freaking Arbalest might be a MW! Anyway, how is that possible? Im gonna go xbow next time i retire...WHy? Because archery is freaking UP and Xbows are OP! ENough said!

[Strider]

Cool Story Bro =D.
This shows the complete reality of xbows compared to archery.
Although An Archer could beat an Xbowmen in a duel, they are both very evenly balanced.

[Bulzur]

Cool Story Bro =D.
This shows the complete reality of xbows compared to archery.
Although An Archer could beat an Xbowmen in a duel, they are both very evenly balanced.

Say the lobbyist who posted a topic to add a "repeated crossbow" with 4 bolts per reload.
No your opinion is not biaised at all.

[Hisagi]

Although I think archer could use a little buff in either speed or accuracy, I do fine with mine. I still hate xbowmen because of the fact that they can do my job just as effectively or even better (outside of shooting into melee). I'll leave it to other people to either beg for a buff or beg for nothing changing. An archer with any respect should still be able to do fine with this current patch.

[Cepeshi]

Archers shouldn't be forced to fight in melee. It's not their purpose. That's like suggesting an HA should also be a 1h shield cav. It makes no sense and you shouldn't force dedicated range builds to have to fight in melee in order to be effective.

sorry, just could not resist to post this and comment by this: funny it comes from archer, i remember most, if not ALL archers bitching on 2hers to "just take a shield then" when we were trying to point out that oneshotting heavy armored people from ONE hit was total bullshit (yeah, played back when "old" archery was on place)

edit: finished reading the whole thing, to me it seems most of people fighting here keep forgetting one simple thing, which makes the biggest difference: you do not get better dmg with xbow no matter your lvl (i can use xbow at lvl like dunno 10 or so, with enuff converts, and i will deal same dmg as i would on lvl 30, overpowered? no), on the contrary, more PD makes you hit harder, so yeah, high lvl archer vs high lvl xbowman, who has the upper hand?

I do agree that the speed reduction on missiles might have been little over the top, it IS easier to dodge arrows now, but for sure it is not granted you can dodge all. I see more and more archers just following the main bobble and shooting from short-mid range. I can not understand anyone bitching about dmg of the archers, that is just big cup of bleh. I mean, cmon, with new soak values it takes me like 3-4 hits on somewhat normally geared guy with my 7PS (had 8 last gen, was pretty much the same).

Anyways, some of my clan guys rolled/respecced archers, and are performing quite well, so really cannot see the reason for bitching. Even i was able to score kills with nomad bow on my lvl 18archer or whatnot.

Just adapt. I had to adapt when changes came. Yeah, i bitched on them, but afterall i just kept playing and learned how to deal with it. Same should go for all you whiners. (just to keep on my habit of mentioning this: fucking revert back to old 2her animations, these are totally retarded, harder to feint and shit ).

Also, before anyone trying to bring this up. I played archer before the patch for 2 gens, i did after the patch on alt, so i have comparision. Same goes for Xbow.

Oh, one more point, to all them smartasses going: the selected part for the statistic is bullshit cause not all are lvl 30, do not take into consideration how many ppl played it and such, fuckoff, it does not have ANYTHING to do with the topic. We are not talking about comparative bullshit in ideal conditions, but we are discussing the current state on servers, so you have to go with the data we got, cause that shows what is happening ON THE DAMN SERVERS.

Also, statistics can be easily fooled, 87% of people already found out.

[Torost]

If you just removed crossbows from the game, then everything would be fine. It would not be missed.
It would bring blissful balance. Alternativly change the role of bows, so that they are usable in the same way as crossbows. Something you bring alongside your heave armour and 2hand/polearm.

Crossbows can do anything bows can do, just better and with less skill involved.
Just comparing stats is useless.. it is the sum of all the small things that favor crossbows that make them so effective.
Ability to have more armour, wield a decent  meleeweapon with skillpoints in PS and WPF. Reload behind cover vs drawing the bow in the open. Great accuracy. infinite time to aim and release vs the 0.5sec window a bowman has. Bolts travel faster, less chance target has changed course/moved. Hits harder and faster.

Crossbows are usable and effective on the early levels, archers are not doing any good before lvl 20-25

You have to be a really dedicated and skilled player to be a useful archer,
Any meleeplayer can be just as effective by picking up a 1slot crossbow + 1 pack of bolts in the 2 free slots after your fav polearm or shield+1hand.

[Mtemtko]

Here are my impressions from xbows:Just went from MW warbow/strongbow(around a year of archery)+ MW bodkins to MW steel bolts+ MW arbalest..... this shit is just sick, with 15/24 and with this armor (lordly wisby + reinf.cuir=63armor), 5PS, 170WPF in xbows, 8 ath I can do wonders, I am goddamn stunned by might of xbows, its true that I'm still far from timing good shots at medium range (too much archery, massive brainderp due to proj speed change) but sooner or later I will learn, ability to onehit 4 out of 5 archers at medium/longrange is also very sweet and the accuracy (+170wpf) allows me to somewhat reliably make hits on enemys from half map distance if they are still/running in a straight line, I can also outrun almost everyone including archers. Plz buff xbows 

[Darkkarma]

If you just removed crossbows from the game, then everything would be fine. It would not be missed.
It would bring blissful balance. Alternativly change the role of bows, so that they are usable in the same way as crossbows. Something you bring alongside your heave armour and 2hand/polearm.

Crossbows can do anything bows can do, just better and with less skill involved.
Just comparing stats is useless.. it is the sum of all the small things that favor crossbows that make them so effective.
Ability to have more armour, wield a decent  meleeweapon with skillpoints in PS and WPF. Reload behind cover vs drawing the bow in the open. Great accuracy. infinite time to aim and release vs the 0.5sec window a bowman has. Bolts travel faster, less chance target has changed course/moved. Hits harder and faster.

Crossbows are usable and effective on the early levels, archers are not doing any good before lvl 20-25

You have to be a really dedicated and skilled player to be a useful archer,
Any meleeplayer can be just as effective by picking up a 1slot crossbow + 1 pack of bolts in the 2 free slots after your fav polearm or shield+1hand.

No