cRPG

cRPG => Announcements => Topic started by: chadz on August 17, 2012, 09:38:46 pm

Title: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 17, 2012, 09:38:46 pm
- Valour in all gamemode work with score instead of the secret formula before.
- Valour works for both sides.
- Valour increases multi by 1

mostly minor bugfixes:
- Siege tower bugging fixed
- small bugfixes

Strat Gameplay Changes (Testing)
Every death increases respawn timer by 4 seconds
New Strat-only range gameplay changes:
Archers now work with 170% speed and 50% damage, team archers withing a small area give +10% damage to that (should show with a debug message for now, for testing purposes)
Respawn timer now shows the time correctly
Xbows haven't been changed.

All of these changes are, for the time being, temporary, until we've decided if they work or not.
I'd like to hear opinions, with good reasoning, if you like those changes or not. My intention:

Respawn Timer - make the battle more difficult the longer it goes. It should allow for a more tactical gameplay.
Ranged: Increase the need for logistics. Archers will run out of arrows quicker, so people have to provide weapon racks to them. In general, it's intended as a nerf for archers in strat, as we've seen many people respec their main to archers since the new round of strat was announced. I don't like that it turns into a ranged fest, so this is my proposed counter.

Edit: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on August 17, 2012, 09:42:51 pm
To be honest ranged sucks right now it should  stay as it was the real problem is 2h lolstab pls have a look at it
Currently Ranged isn't effective anymore what makes those 2h bobs out in this world even more op
In this strategus battle I received 2 arrows and they made less damage than a kick... ( iwas naked)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: DaveUKR on August 17, 2012, 09:43:35 pm
Make all classes the same as they're in crpg, so we don't have to learn again each battle. If you want to change anything - change it in crpg too.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Life on August 17, 2012, 09:43:52 pm
Ranged: Increase the need for logistics. Archers will run out of arrows quicker, so people have to provide weapon racks to them. In general, it's intended as a nerf for archers in strat, as we've seen many people respec their main to archers since the new round of strat was announced. I don't like that it turns into a ranged fest, so this is my proposed counter.
GF BRD
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kirbies on August 17, 2012, 09:45:11 pm
gg ranged fans
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Emotion on August 17, 2012, 09:45:24 pm
The timer to respawn going to 3 seconds per death is a great idea imo. It doesn't require you to work together, but it sure has hell will impact you negatively if you do not. This is a great add.

The archer "nerf" is always a good idea, since cRPG/Strat has "sort of" turned away from melee and is growing towards a counterstrike brother....

Well done.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Earthdforce on August 17, 2012, 09:45:58 pm
Stick it to the archer man!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on August 17, 2012, 09:47:34 pm
I PUKED

GIVE FREE RESPEC & LOOM RESETS OR DIE

BEST REGARDS

TAVUK
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Life on August 17, 2012, 09:48:44 pm
I received 2 arrows and they made less damage than a kick...
must have been a horse archer.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Nightingale on August 17, 2012, 09:48:56 pm
Well, with this nerf to archers/xbowmen in strat only... I see no reason to hire ranged players for strat battles anymore Also why buy ranged Gear if it will only kill 10 people?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on August 17, 2012, 09:51:08 pm
must have been a horse archer.
it was a longbow archer
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Corsair831 on August 17, 2012, 09:51:40 pm
mostly minor bugfixes:
- Siege tower bugging fixed
- small bugfixes

Strat Gameplay Changes (Testing)
Every death increases respawn timer by 4 seconds (will be reduced to 3)
New Strat-only range gameplay changes. We can now finetune stats for strat only. Right now I'd like to test the following values for bows and xbows until strat reset:
Accuracy 100% (no change),
Damage 50%,
Speed 200%.

I'd like to hear opinions, with good reasoning, if you like those changes or not. My intention:

Respawn Timer - make the battle more difficult the longer it goes. It should allow for a more tactical gameplay.
Ranged: Increase the need for logistics. Archers will run out of arrows quicker, so people have to provide weapon racks to them. In general, it's intended as a nerf for archers in strat, as we've seen many people respec their main to archers since the new round of strat was announced. I don't like that it turns into a ranged fest, so this is my proposed counter.

i am a huge fan of the respawn timer there, excellent idea i think, as the battles stand as of current it's basically a TDM ... longer respawn timers makes a lot of sense and lowers the capability of the suiciders to grief.

Kudos.

The archer damage - 50%, right, this is dumb. No offense, but at 7 PD with tatar arrows and a horn bow my arrows would regularly bounce (thus no damage or stun) from people with 65+ body armour (meaning a lot of people). If the damage is halved, the amount of arrows that bounce will be absolutely insane. If all our arrows bounce off heavy armour, what's the point in shooting twice as fast ?

I think it is rather ridiculous that with a simple sword, 100 WPF and 7 PS i can quite easily kill a tincan, however with 7 PD, the third best arrows (tatar) and a horn bow, i can hardly touch a tincan. I understand you want to make the game more logistical, which is great, but i think this is a wrong change.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: //saxon on August 17, 2012, 09:59:38 pm
i played on EU_1 and EU_2 for a while today with my main character who is lvl 32 in the archer class.

i must of shot over 400 arrows. out of them arrows i must of hit like 2 and i remember that they were very very close range shots?

with +3 rus bow and 173 archer wpf and im sure that the arrows just went right through people. it left me mind blown and i just couldn't believe the arrows wasn't hitting?

and another thing is my arrow count doesn't go down it stays at max ammo cap forever. Im sure this is some kind of bug?

also seen that it happens with shields too.
 
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Corwin on August 17, 2012, 10:02:23 pm


Every death increases respawn timer by 4 seconds (will be reduced to 3)




This is going to make taking of spawns especially in the second half of the battle a lot easier. I can imagine a group atacking a castle, getting slaughtered, and their spawn taken immediately, before half of them respawn.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 17, 2012, 10:04:11 pm
Update: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Rhekimos on August 17, 2012, 10:06:45 pm
Archers shot so fast, 3 were able to keep a melee player in constant arrow stun.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Pentecost on August 17, 2012, 10:11:42 pm
The respawn thing is good, but you should seriously reconsider the range gameplay adjustments. The biggest foreseeable effect of your proposed changes to both archers AND crossbows would be to make cavalry even more powerful in field battles than it already is, since you're weakening the only class that can consistently check them.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 17, 2012, 10:13:05 pm
If we want to Balance by class...
REMEMBER STRAT BATTLES ONLY. DOES NOT AFFECT REGULAR CRPG

Melee Changes
Decrease the Damage from 2h swords by 10-20%. Increase damage from 1h by 10-17%. Decrease damage on polearms over 160 length by 15% and leave Under 160 unchanged.

Ranged
Archery down by 30-40%. Xbow Damage down 10-20% or no change at all. Throwing should have no change.

Armor
Make mail armor be baseline. If you have LESS than mail, you should get a damage increase to your class(2h, bow, xbow, etc) If you have OVER mail, decrease your damage.(at MOST 5% for these changes.)

Reasons:
Xbows should be the most used on defence, but are not good in field battles. Sheild should be supreme so sheilders would be the most used class. Pole support units work well in group and as a support but shouldn't go for the kills while the combat poles(under 160) would be good in melee and versatile, but lack the awesome 1v1 of 2h. 2h should be the shock infantry, not the army mainstay.

Cav is useless on strat atm.

Wonder how much -'s I'll get for this.

EDIT: made a change 2 2h damage. 25% WAS to much of a change(once i did a mathmatical calculation)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: autobus on August 17, 2012, 10:17:12 pm
awesome.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Emotion on August 17, 2012, 10:17:31 pm
(click to show/hide)

-1 before I even finished.  8-)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 17, 2012, 10:19:36 pm
Good to see you are giving critques on the ranged nerf and nerfs for strat.

Not like any of those affect battle at all.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Rhekimos on August 17, 2012, 10:34:55 pm
How about an upper limit for the respawn time? 30 deaths x 4 seconds is a long wait.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 17, 2012, 10:36:52 pm
Don't die 30 times.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Thovex on August 17, 2012, 10:38:58 pm
There go the retards playing strategus, woo.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Rhekimos on August 17, 2012, 10:43:15 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I had thought of that.

Also, not knowing when you will spawn makes it hard to defend against spawn killing. Would a timer be possible?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Bjarky on August 17, 2012, 10:54:39 pm
yes too countdown timer for respawn, it's truly annoying not knowing when you spawn..
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Swaggart on August 17, 2012, 11:00:45 pm
Sheild should be supreme so sheilders would be the most used class.

Why?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 17, 2012, 11:01:08 pm
Have to say that i think you are going about this the wrong way

The reason people are respeccing is because early on in Strat there is no Cav which means archers are king.  No Cav means archers are free to kite as much as they want without fear.  Once Strat gets far enough that we have Cav again all these respeccers will respec right back to melee/cav again.

What needs to happen is the following

1) Decrease the cost of the lighter horses
2) Increase in the cost of the heavier bows/xbows.
3) Fix Cav spawns (if not already done)
4) Prevent Spawning when there are enemies within 1 or 2m of a spawn flag.  This will mean that teams have to defend in FRONT of their spawn.  Currently most teams defend behind it and just charge down when needed.  This allows defending archers to hug the hill that usually occurs at the edge of the map meaning their backs are always protected.  Force them forward and they are then more vulnerable to flanking attacks and less OP.
5) Make Shield requirements strength based for Strat.  Without skill even the decent 1 slot shields will break in melee quickly so they are only really useful vs archers.  It also means better formations instead of 30 2Hs hiding behind 5 Shielders
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 17, 2012, 11:10:06 pm
Why?

Basing it upon the fact that 1h is the most common medieval style of combat, along with the spear. 2h came about as a counter to pole based squad tactics. It would also increase teamwork due to the limited range of combat of 1h weapons. Shields are NOT duelists(with shield at least).  It would also make poles the pre-eminent  support weapon. Cav would be REAL good with this change(especially 1h cav) and 2h would loose their supreme versatility.

I still think that 10% maybe to much if you add the armor change. If you add the armor change perhaps all the damage changes i proposed should be 5% lower for everything.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Dach on August 17, 2012, 11:23:36 pm
 :arrow: www.meleegaming.com  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Smoothrich on August 17, 2012, 11:35:57 pm
Basing it upon the fact that 1h is the most common medieval style of combat, along with the spear. 2h came about as a counter to pole based squad tactics. It would also increase teamwork due to the limited range of combat of 1h weapons. Shields are NOT duelists(with shield at least).  It would also make poles the pre-eminent  support weapon. Cav would be REAL good with this change(especially 1h cav) and 2h would loose their supreme versatility.

I dunno what game you play dude, strength build shielders with blunt or pierce weapons dominate every Strat siege I've been in, 2-3 shotting heavy infantry with ease.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 17, 2012, 11:39:10 pm
PLEASE let the AI buy something better than normal arrows and long bows then. I didnt respecced to archer for strat, i respecced to archer because it's fun, don't nerf it to the ground again, that's what makes me stop playing archer in the first place =(

You know 200% speed will make high level archers very...well OP? For example, Blast the Grey draws that Rus Bow like it's a Horn bow now as it is, 200% speed will make that speed for many archers just fkkn insane. AI castle defending archers are pretty much fucked then anyway, the difference between loomed archers and unloomed are very huge.

However, let's just see how this works out, i'm not quite sure this will be a good solution to nerf archers in strat.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Patoson on August 17, 2012, 11:44:40 pm
I'm playing on EU_New_1 and everyone's level is 0 or similar, so nobody can pick up things lying on the ground.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Visconti on August 17, 2012, 11:46:00 pm
The respawn timer increase sounds like a bad idea imo... attacking in a strat battle is already a huge pain in the ass, this is gonna make it nearly impossible  :cry:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: //saxon on August 17, 2012, 11:46:41 pm
yes stats are bugged i have 0 WPF in archery and 0 Power draw but im 3 hitting tin cans and 1 hitting horses.

my cross hair is massive and my bow is slower than a long bow. but im doing so much damage.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 17, 2012, 11:49:11 pm
I dunno what game you play dude, strength build shielders with blunt or pierce weapons dominate every Strat siege I've been in, 2-3 shotting heavy infantry with ease.

that's a problem with strength and the fact that agi is useless. If they patch and fix strength and agi. I'm sure things will be different.

haven't seen 1h dominate. It's always been archers/xbows. Name a few and I might say Yea ok never saw them.

Personally, i've done well as cav or xbow. 1:1 or slightly better as 2h and shittiest as 1h. Then ofcourse i played 1h back before the price change and massive plate crutching.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: dodnet on August 17, 2012, 11:51:49 pm
I'm playing on EU_New_1 and everyone's level is 0 or similar, so nobody can pick up things lying on the ground.

EU1 Server seem to have crash just a few minutes ago and after rejoin my stats are all 0 too. It feels faster than my normal build though, must be some random stats.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: sF_Guardian on August 18, 2012, 12:02:38 am
that's a problem with strength and the fact that agi is useless. If they patch and fix strength and agi. I'm sure things will be different.

haven't seen 1h dominate. It's always been archers/xbows. Name a few and I might say Yea ok never saw them.

Personally, i've done well as cav or xbow. 1:1 or slightly better as 2h and shittiest as 1h. Then ofcourse i played 1h back before the price change and massive plate crutching.

Dude, your suggestions are just mad.
Strat battles feel pretty well balanced atm, I can play there with every class nearly equally good (depending on
gamemode for shure)
Your stalinic methods to make players play what you think they should play and how they should play are laughable shit.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Mike_of_Kingswell on August 18, 2012, 12:06:21 am
(click to show/hide)

Tomas sums it up good for me!



WHY would you change archerys in strat from archery in crpg?

Makeing archers use up their arrows faster by makeing them shoot like machineguns? Sounds not like a good idea. And what if you dont have a weapon rack? suiciding archers all over the place?

Why is it always archery that gets fucked up?!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Nebun on August 18, 2012, 12:06:35 am
lol best battle out of 3 was for the village, the one without any changes to archery
1st mode of fast shooting looked stupid and also was very weak, archers was useless
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Plavor on August 18, 2012, 12:09:19 am
Xbow was also dead..
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 18, 2012, 12:10:23 am
(click to show/hide)

Ok then why not make critques and say stuff. chadz made a change to archers(server nerf) on strat. If they can ONLY change classes on strat, why NOT try and come out with something that is truly balanced for strat.

and, I don't know about you, but armies in nothing but plate, with top tier 2h and 1h and sheilds isn't balanced, it's bullshit. If gear used IS changed(which it will be), why not balance along a certain average class.

I'm good at all classes even without wpf. It's just because of the gear in strat battles.

Also FYI, spears and 1h/sheild should be the most common classes while 2h's much smaller. Of ranged, xbows should be much better in defence than offence and bows should be better on the feild. With the change to bows, bows become much better in field battles vs the xbows and in siege...well we shall see....
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Matey on August 18, 2012, 12:23:36 am
if you let archers clump together to have the same damage as normal with the same accuracy as normal but with 2x the fire rate... its not going to be a nerf at all.

for balancing ranged in strat... if the goal is to make weapon racks and such very important for archers, then why not just reduce the amount of arrows per stack in strat, but otherwise leave it alone? (as in normal damage/accuracy/speed but less ammo)

also, for the increased respawn timer... i would say add 1 second per death and then cap it at 20-30 seconds. punishing those who run off an die all the time is all well and good, but if everyone is waiting around for minutes to respawn in longer matches then itll get boring in a hurry... also, slowing respawn may require an adjustment to the time limit of battles since it will become harder to kill people fast enough.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: LordRichrich on August 18, 2012, 12:30:52 am
The idea is to make archers stay on groups, allowing sheild wall advances and cavalry mop-ups of lone archers to be much easier, severly nerfing the lone archer and encouraging team play :)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 18, 2012, 12:32:03 am
Also, if you count a standard siege. It's 2k vs 2k for castles, cities and GOOD battles is 1k verus 1k. If 50 players all die in equal amounts thats 20 average deaths and 80 second respawn just for a 1k strat battle. At the end of the battle, you'll have who ever can kill the most first win cause the other team won't be able to reinforce AT ALL.

Also, sheild wall? Other than Hosp and the last kutt versus FPF i haven't seen a huge amount of 1h/sheild. Mostly archers now :( :?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on August 18, 2012, 01:17:20 am
Update: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.
TOTALLY FOR THAT. A friend of mine and I have thought about it 2 month ago. It make archer more powerfull , but easier to catch , and it force the team to protect the archer gang , so we get more teamplay. It may need a lot of finetuning but it's a very great idea
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on August 18, 2012, 01:18:25 am
Dude, your suggestions are just mad.
Strat battles feel pretty well balanced atm, I can play there with every class nearly equally good (depending on
gamemode for shure)
Your stalinic methods to make players play what you think they should play and how they should play are laughable shit.
Trolololo. Most of people says exactly the opposite :D . go 15-24 or 15-27 or even 12/27 and you'll see how much it's easy to do a lot of damage thx to speed bonus. I think agi or str are fine both , and you'll always one guy calling for an agi nerf , and another calling for a str nerf
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: bagge on August 18, 2012, 01:20:22 am
Oh well, strat dead is old news.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: karasu on August 18, 2012, 01:24:43 am
   I don't have any formed idea of how to counter "archer" numbers in Strategvs, but those you presented ain't the most diplomatic/rational decision at all.

   Players aren't forced to play as archers or crossbowers, they chose it because they enjoy it, I doubt anyone is forced into playing ranged.

So:

> 100% accuracy, fair enough, untouched.

> 200% speed bonus (or any speed bonus at all), it's terrible for the obvious reasons. You'll probably see only squads of hornbows stunlocking everything to death, ultimate support in the right hands.

> 50% damage.... and 10% damage buff if you stand closer together in a big archer/xbower group. This will only make archers die so easily and be so exposed, killing the point of flanking properly. Maybe it's the intention. I can imagine 5 xbowers reloading together, sitting ducks.


   The main problem of strategus class balance has been from what I've experience in every battle, the insane amount of defenders being able to wield very accurately any sort of crossbow with no actual penalty, hitting for huge values of damage with pierce damage. So on the AI sieges or defense sieges with lots of crossbows in stack, you'd see most of the players using them, due to how insanely effective it is in big numbers.

My main character is an archer (with PS) at the moment, and never had a problem with opposing team archers in Strategus. Never in all my 24 generations of different speccs. Then on the other hand I understand how hard it must be to fight against players like Bagge, Hetman, Nebun, Kunio, or even the good ol' me.


   Honestly, if those changes come true, strategus will become another borefest of melee hormones going berserk at each other, pointless competition, and Strategus is the mode I've always found most appealing in cRPG, as I know for other ranged players for sure.


Just how I feel reading the op.
cheers.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Xant on August 18, 2012, 01:32:56 am
melee hormones
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Paul on August 18, 2012, 01:40:48 am
Also added chamberkick.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on August 18, 2012, 02:17:19 am
   I don't have any formed idea of how to counter "archer" numbers in Strategvs, but those you presented ain't the most diplomatic/rational decision at all.

   Players aren't forced to play as archers or crossbowers, they chose it because they enjoy it, I doubt anyone is forced into playing ranged.

So:

> 100% accuracy, fair enough, untouched.

> 200% speed bonus (or any speed bonus at all), it's terrible for the obvious reasons. You'll probably see only squads of hornbows stunlocking everything to death, ultimate support in the right hands.

> 50% damage.... and 10% damage buff if you stand closer together in a big archer/xbower group. This will only make archers die so easily and be so exposed, killing the point of flanking properly. Maybe it's the intention. I can imagine 5 xbowers reloading together, sitting ducks.


   The main problem of strategus class balance has been from what I've experience in every battle, the insane amount of defenders being able to wield very accurately any sort of crossbow with no actual penalty, hitting for huge values of damage with pierce damage. So on the AI sieges or defense sieges with lots of crossbows in stack, you'd see most of the players using them, due to how insanely effective it is in big numbers.

My main character is an archer (with PS) at the moment, and never had a problem with opposing team archers in Strategus. Never in all my 24 generations of different speccs. Then on the other hand I understand how hard it must be to fight against players like Bagge, Hetman, Nebun, Kunio, or even the good ol' me.


   Honestly, if those changes come true, strategus will become another borefest of melee hormones going berserk at each other, pointless competition, and Strategus is the mode I've always found most appealing in cRPG, as I know for other ranged players for sure.


Just how I feel reading the op.
cheers.
Let's give it a chance. Don't forget that each archer in a group of archer will do 2 time dps, that's a hell lot. I
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on August 18, 2012, 02:18:34 am
Also added chamberkick.
Maybe... But add the ability to chamber arrows , bolt and throwing weapon. THAT woul be nice!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 18, 2012, 02:24:38 am
Maybe... But add the ability to chamber arrows , bolt and throwing weapon. THAT woul be nice!

Yeah, that would be incredibly retarded.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Leshma on August 18, 2012, 02:27:46 am
Also added chamberkick.

Works like a charm :wink:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Elindor on August 18, 2012, 02:31:49 am
> 50% damage.... and 10% damage buff if you stand closer together in a big archer/xbower group.

Quote
...archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%
- chadz

Not disputing your point, just thought I'd point this out.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: isatis on August 18, 2012, 02:32:23 am
can't wait for archer squad of dead...

(time for that shielder gen :P)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Malaclypse on August 18, 2012, 02:38:00 am
I don't think this has been mentioned, but NA side at least I'm getting scrambled stats every round. Kind of aggravating to be a shielder and not be able to pick up shields due to this xD. Also the health bar extends off the side of my screen.

Edit: Submitted to Bugtracker as separate issues.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: seddrik on August 18, 2012, 06:03:26 am
Been seeing a lot of one-handers with no shield lately.  Guess people are finding that speed perk of having no shield to be superior to even 2 Handers, if they know how to block.  But hey, keep saying 2Hs need a nerf instead of using tactics to counter it... lol. (Actually, Kudos to the guys doing this, rather than QQing for nerfs.  Good on you for finding a solution in game rather than changing the game to make it easier for you!)

Armor actually needs fixing.  +3 Black lam strength build - get one shot all the time, whether its range or melee.  Got tired of it and just started wearing ragged armor and suddenly I'm able to take 3 arrows, or 3 melee hits.  Heh... lower repairs and better protection from ragged armor (no looms)?  You would think +3 lam would protect you more, not less.  Sad to say that the end result of my comment here will probably be that ragged armor (and the like) gets nerfed to being useless also.  As it is, armor below 50 is fairly useless in general.

Archers?  "for balancing ranged in strat... if the goal is to make weapon racks and such very important for archers, then why not just reduce the amount of arrows per stack in strat, but otherwise leave it alone? (as in normal damage/accuracy/speed but less ammo)"  Ditto

Increased respawn timer?  I think this will make strat very boring very quickly.  As one guy said, "...waiting around for minutes to respawn in longer matches then itll get boring in a hurry..."  As it stands now, Ive seen battles go back and forth in struggles.

In the end, be careful not to over regulate everything.  Billzard did that and lost millions of customers.  People want to have different options to play with and overcome.  But the more limitations there are, the more people will look elsewhere to find entertainment.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Akashi on August 18, 2012, 06:37:50 am
mostly minor bugfixes:
- Siege tower bugging fixed
- small bugfixes

Strat Gameplay Changes (Testing)
Every death increases respawn timer by 4 seconds (will be reduced to 3)
New Strat-only range gameplay changes. We can now finetune stats for strat only. Right now I'd like to test the following values for bows and xbows until strat reset:
Accuracy 100% (no change),
Damage 50%,
Speed 200%.

I'd like to hear opinions, with good reasoning, if you like those changes or not. My intention:

Respawn Timer - make the battle more difficult the longer it goes. It should allow for a more tactical gameplay.
Ranged: Increase the need for logistics. Archers will run out of arrows quicker, so people have to provide weapon racks to them. In general, it's intended as a nerf for archers in strat, as we've seen many people respec their main to archers since the new round of strat was announced. I don't like that it turns into a ranged fest, so this is my proposed counter.

Edit: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.
Shinnyy!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Wiltzu on August 18, 2012, 09:27:19 am
Make all classes the same as they're in crpg, so we don't have to learn again each battle. If you want to change anything - change it in crpg too.

This is the reason why I respecced. But then again, I agree with chadz that there are way too many archers out there.

We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Latrinenkobold on August 18, 2012, 10:23:17 am
Also added chamberkick.
R..r..r really?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on August 18, 2012, 11:00:40 am

Cav is useless on strat atm.


It really isnt. My last strat battles playing cavalry I got:
103:46(EU)
103:64(NA)
129:56(EU)
110:40(EU)
138:46(EU)

These are all either village or field battles.

Im not a full time cav player, and could never compete with the best lancers such as tommy or oberyn, but even I can get these scores...

As for the time increase... +1 to that, but I think that has overwhelming support already.

I agree with the archer nerf on strat tbh... there is way to many ranged as it is, but a direct nerf is perhaps not the best way to go about it. Maybe decrease damage by a lower percentage.. say 15% instead of 50%, and limit the walking speed of archers, so if a melee player gets amongst them, they cant run away and kite him to death. This forces the inf to guard the archers much more heavily, as the damage bonus from grouping will force the archers to keep in a tight formation, that is very vunerable to infantry. If they are left vunerable, some asshole ninja wannabe can jump into their tight formation, and kill 3-4 before anyone realises. This ties into the spawn system also, as if the archer dont have good protection, they will die alot and will take ages to spawn, leaving the team with few archers...

Just an idea, noone try and argue realism of how archer should run faster than armoured inf, this is to balance the game, not make it a simulation.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 18, 2012, 12:27:49 pm
(click to show/hide)

6) Based on Matey's suggestion but also something I have been suggesting for a while.  Limit archers to 1 quiver each (with slightly more arrows than currently.  20 Bodkins, 24 Tatars, 26 Barbeds, 30 Arrows unloomed).  On Strat archers will have to refill more often.  I'd do this on cRPG as well and buff archer accuracy slightly so that they can dump some points into melee.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Peasant_Woman on August 18, 2012, 12:31:51 pm
R..r..r really?

Yes. Kick someone and they have a moment to counter kick, if done right the original kicker ends up knocked down and the kickee merely staggered briefly.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on August 18, 2012, 01:08:05 pm
Update: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.

thanks, you just killed all sniper arbalester builds
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: djavo on August 18, 2012, 01:09:48 pm
chadz how about making pure throwers usefull in strategus. Give us bombs and throwing claymores.

No one wants pure thrower in roster, not even greys.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kafein on August 18, 2012, 01:12:42 pm
Yes. Kick someone and they have a moment to counter kick, if done right the original kicker ends up knocked down and the kickee merely staggered briefly.

It basically gives you one free hit like if your opponent had been knocked down by a weapon.

However, you can only get a second free hit by kicking him when he gets back on his feet if he messes up.

thanks, you just killed all sniper arbalester builds

cRPG now 200% better.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aseplhood on August 18, 2012, 01:15:49 pm
How about making the siege equipment cheaper while repairing  :P?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: HardRice on August 18, 2012, 01:23:11 pm
Just pointing out that a longbow barely scratched someone with no helmet when he was headshotted. So for the remainder of strat 3 ranged is useless due to all the plate hoards.

This also means first person with large quantities of plate in strat 4 is invulnerable to ranged. (Mainly bows, xbows still shitty.)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on August 18, 2012, 01:35:29 pm
Just pointing out that a longbow barely scratched someone with no helmet when he was headshotted.

yesterday, in battle of jelkala, a dude with shitty vaegir helmet who tried to close the gate survived my 3 arbalest headshots and he had managed to do his task.

cRPG now 200% better.


i undertand you. with the release of this patch, there will be noone shooting at routing french. you can wave your white flag safely.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Butan on August 18, 2012, 02:07:07 pm
The ranged change is pretty brutal, the reload speed feels really supernatural and terrible, the damage I dont know yet.

Not sure it was really needed but maybe it will be fine tuned and lead to cool things.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Plavor on August 18, 2012, 02:07:32 pm
You either give all crossbowmen / archers a free respec or change it in another way because this is not the way to go  :mad:

Many crossbowmen with arbalest want to support their team by for example flanking the opposite team and shoot their archers from the back.
Now since they would survive 3-4 MW steelbolts they can easily get hit once and run away.

Since the arbalest had to reload really long, the arbalest crossbowmen was supposed to hide well to reload without interruption.
For me, its not that good to reload behind a shieldwall or a group of player because of the danger that our enemies push or we push so I am static on one place
locked while my team is charging -> no cover anymore.

With this new test in strat, you would make crossbowmen to call of duty shotgun heroes due to their awesome accuracy and reload speed which destroys the sense
for playing a decicated crossbowmen build ...   

I understand that you tried to test new stuff to "nerf" archery and crossbow but please do it in another way and also introduce a Crossbow Wall Formation like the SB guys did
( 5 SB with arbalests were standing in one line horizontal and were shooting the shit out of the charging enemies )
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on August 18, 2012, 02:10:50 pm
With this new test in strat, you would make crossbowmen to call of duty shotgun heroes

lol man, i tried to go on full shotgun action yesterday, it barely hurt someone..
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Leshma on August 18, 2012, 02:15:25 pm
Xbow = dead

chadz fixing stuff that ain't broken, as usual.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: karasu on August 18, 2012, 02:48:15 pm
Xbow = dead

chadz fixing stuff that ain't broken, as usual.

xbow dead, and archery in zombie mode.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: sF_Guardian on August 18, 2012, 02:49:50 pm
Theese ranged changes are way to drastic.
2H/Pole heroes have their best time in strat atm I guess :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on August 18, 2012, 02:50:19 pm
xbow dead, and archery in zombie mode.

lol have you seen arbalesters kiting people? it is possible now :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Corwin on August 18, 2012, 02:52:18 pm
They are right; playing with arbalest yesterday was terrible. I got few kills with shotgunning, but those were people already damaged in melee.

I already thought arbalest was under-powered, because most of time it can't make one shot/one kill; which is the only purpose of the only sniper weapon in the game. I actually believed that it could use a small buff, something like shortening the reload speed by one second, or adding another 5 points to dmg or something like that, because it just isn't that good as a weapon anymore, and because of the slot system it had to be primary weapon.  The market usually gives a good picture about how players perceive worth of a weapon, MW Arbalest is a cheap weapon you can get for two loom points.

Anyway, I agree with Dave when he said that everything in Strat should apply to cRPG and vice versa. For many of us it is one and the same game. Before this I was planning to make this my last gen and play as a crossbowman until the end, but now as sure as hell I am not going to do it. Because that would mean I am completely worthless in Strat. For example, yesterday I couldn't pick up any of twohanders because goddamn AI bought only flamberges, and I have only 15 STR and shooting people didn't do nothing. So what was I suppose to do? Pick up one hander even though I have no WPF in that? Off course, I realize that the battle yesterday was only a test. But if things like that remain permanently, there is no point for me or anyone with build like me to play Strat at all.

I know many of the people hate snipers because they can punish even your smallest mistake, but this game is much better with them than it would have been without them. Having that in mind, please try not to kill diversity in this mod any further. You have already killed many play styles, and now there are only 4-5 viable builds left no matter what class you want to play.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Leshma on August 18, 2012, 03:06:48 pm
chadz, can you please make 2H or lancer char next time?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aseplhood on August 18, 2012, 03:18:40 pm
I already thought arbalest was under-powered, because most of time it can't make one shot/one kill;

You're funny.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 18, 2012, 03:21:47 pm
i don't know who is giving these ideas to him but chadz wasn't a bad patcher like this before ; even if i am 2h this patch totally a fail.

He said don't die 30 times about spawntime ; Are you fuckin kidding me ? How can we not die in a fuckin battle of siege which is 2000 vs 2000 and 90 minutes ? Are you sure you don't use drugs ? Oh god if you gonna put spawn delay than u need to put moar battle time
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Wiltzu on August 18, 2012, 03:45:08 pm
I agree on cicero here. To get castles you need to make sacrifices, you need those melee guys running in from ladder and just swing swing and hope that the guy behind em gets further.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Corwin on August 18, 2012, 03:46:01 pm
You're funny.

You're not.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Amoebe on August 18, 2012, 03:58:08 pm
Edit: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.

Is this bonus restricted to ranged teammates or does any teammate give it? Or differently asked: do you need ranged groups or can 5 peasants follow a ranged guy so he gets full damage?

Edit: With the new information below, i suppose only near archers (archers being people with bows equipped? or archery wpf? or pd?) count.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 18, 2012, 04:12:13 pm
I agree on cicero here. To get castles you need to make sacrifices, you need those melee guys running in from ladder and just swing swing and hope that the guy behind em gets further.
Yes and thats why i was so happy with score thing ; Because strategus is a kill steal place sometimes u don't even know who you are hitting even your teammates but castles are hard for infantry. Yes it must be hard for infantry and we agree on that also but u can not show me an infantry on attacker side that died less than 30 times in 2k vs 2k if he did probably he leeched
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 18, 2012, 04:15:01 pm
Little update between the whine here:

Archers now work with 170% speed and 50% damage, team archers withing a small area give +10% damage to that (should show with a debug message for now, for testing purposes)
Respawn timer now shows the time correctly
Xbows haven't been changed.
Valour in all gamemode work with score instead of the secret formula before.
Valour works for both sides.
Valour increases multi by 1

All of these changes are, for the time being, temporary, until we've decided if they work or not.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 18, 2012, 04:19:09 pm
chadz spawn time still deaths * 4 or ?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 18, 2012, 04:25:13 pm
Game is broken!

Once it starts "Loading Data" it crashes. Happens on the normal launcher as well as on the beta.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: karasu on August 18, 2012, 04:29:30 pm
Let's hope it doesn't take too long for you to realize that it didn't work.

Meanwhile something worked though, several players are switching back to melee, which might have been one of the objectives with all this ruckus.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 18, 2012, 04:34:05 pm
oh come on no need to QQ that much ; I am pretty sure chadz will release he made a mistake here.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 18, 2012, 04:37:46 pm
Fixed! awesome =)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 18, 2012, 04:43:19 pm
oh come on no need to QQ that much ; I am pretty sure chadz will release he made a mistake here.

can't talk about the future, but right now, I love the changes.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 18, 2012, 04:50:19 pm
yes you do but u should be our teamspeak yesterday ; all archers played with melee weapon. I am a 2h chadz and even i am telling that archer thing is totally fucked up ; imho that group of archers %10 bonus is amazing i like a line of archers but arbalets cant be a group =)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: HardRice on August 18, 2012, 05:06:36 pm
Little update between the whine here:
Xbows haven't been changed.

By not changed, do you mean they still have 200% speed 50% damage?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Plavor on August 18, 2012, 05:07:18 pm
Little update between the whine here:

Archers now work with 170% speed and 50% damage, team archers withing a small area give +10% damage to that (should show with a debug message for now, for testing purposes)
Respawn timer now shows the time correctly
Xbows haven't been changed.
Valour in all gamemode work with score instead of the secret formula before.
Valour works for both sides.
Valour increases multi by 1

All of these changes are, for the time being, temporary, until we've decided if they work or not.

Do you mean that xbow are still like in normal crpg or are still nerfed as in the strategus yesterday?

If there is a xbow group, its a huge target for archers since they can spam arrows with this speed and xbows have to reload.

Xbow group = dead before they reload
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Braeden on August 18, 2012, 05:13:02 pm
I believe xbows are entirely unchanged, same as cRPG.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 18, 2012, 05:16:44 pm
Do you mean that xbow are still like in normal crpg or are still nerfed as in the strategus yesterday?

If there is a xbow group, its a huge target for archers since they can spam arrows with this speed and xbows have to reload.

Xbow group = dead before they reload
not really they reload behind a wall then come and fire ; i don't think they need to fire at the same time and stand still as a line ; i mean that group affect should have an aura or area effect ?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Gurnisson on August 18, 2012, 05:27:21 pm
x5 in two rounds of playing since one can get valour on the winning team. Cool :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 18, 2012, 06:33:52 pm
Siege needs valour, too! =O
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Braeden on August 18, 2012, 06:38:21 pm
Silly sieger, valor is for people.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Elindor on August 18, 2012, 06:41:42 pm
doesnt the quote from chadz say "Valour in all gamemode work..."

So, that means it is in siege also.....no?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 18, 2012, 07:32:40 pm
doesnt the quote from chadz say "Valour in all gamemode work..."

So, that means it is in siege also.....no?

That's what i expected, too, but right now there is no valour.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Leshma on August 18, 2012, 07:38:39 pm
To get many points it's best to be either cav or str build. Both pay high upkeep and are losing gold in the long run. With point based valour they won't lose gold. Kinda like old cRPG, get as many armor you can or ride the best horse and you'll be king of the hill.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Dravic on August 18, 2012, 08:25:01 pm
Make all classes the same as they're in crpg, so we don't have to learn again each battle. If you want to change anything - change it in crpg too.

Actually ranged damage stacking when near teammates would rock if it was in normal cRPG!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aderyn on August 18, 2012, 08:32:55 pm
Have to say that i think you are going about this the wrong way

The reason people are respeccing is because early on in Strat there is no Cav which means archers are king.  No Cav means archers are free to kite as much as they want without fear.  Once Strat gets far enough that we have Cav again all these respeccers will respec right back to melee/cav again.

What needs to happen is the following

1) Decrease the cost of the lighter horses
2) Increase in the cost of the heavier bows/xbows.
3) Fix Cav spawns (if not already done)
4) Prevent Spawning when there are enemies within 1 or 2m of a spawn flag.  This will mean that teams have to defend in FRONT of their spawn.  Currently most teams defend behind it and just charge down when needed.  This allows defending archers to hug the hill that usually occurs at the edge of the map meaning their backs are always protected.  Force them forward and they are then more vulnerable to flanking attacks and less OP.
5) Make Shield requirements strength based for Strat.  Without skill even the decent 1 slot shields will break in melee quickly so they are only really useful vs archers.  It also means better formations instead of 30 2Hs hiding behind 5 Shielders

This.

Gonna have to go to a stratbattle to check this out but from the looks of it i don't see how this will turn strat into more fun for everyone. It will just make it harder to kill the archers since they wont walk alone now. Ever tried charging an archernest? It's no fun.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Antip on August 18, 2012, 08:38:17 pm
very shit patch for strat battles
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Riddaren on August 18, 2012, 09:06:44 pm
To get many points it's best to be either cav or str build. Both pay high upkeep and are losing gold in the long run. With point based valour they won't lose gold. Kinda like old cRPG, get as many armor you can or ride the best horse and you'll be king of the hill.

Wrong. Being cav is not the best if you want most points.
The best is to be 1H/shield on the ground sticking with your team getting lots of proximity points.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: San on August 18, 2012, 09:23:47 pm
Is score-based valor determined by a threshold score that one must reach, or does it depend on a relationship between your score in comparison to your teammates/enemies?

It is tougher for the losing team to get valor due to the nature of one team's tactics/domination over the other. I think there should be some sort of leeway with valor for the losing team (either a lower threshold or compare your score to your teammates').


@ Riddaren

An agi based build that flanks and deals damage to many different enemies also gets a lot of points.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 18, 2012, 10:10:35 pm
I think it's sorta funny that people say their arrows now glance as headshots or that it takes 3 headshots to kill people, admittedly I haven't played in a strat battle since the change but, if the change was a 50% nerf, and before headshots would onehit, there is no way in hell this can be right.

And to whoever bitched about xbowies having to stand together and not hide somewhere alone then I'll just say siege shields still exist...
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on August 18, 2012, 10:15:51 pm
Valour in all gamemode work with score instead of the secret formula before.
Now that it's no longer being used, care to share the secret formula?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Miracle on August 18, 2012, 10:18:09 pm
Now that it's no longer being used, care to share the secret formula?
Please chadz...We must know!  Also, Teeth why don't you come hang out with your NA friends anymore? :(
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Braeden on August 18, 2012, 10:20:22 pm
Quote
5) Make Shield requirements strength based for Strat.  Without skill even the decent 1 slot shields will break in melee quickly so they are only really useful vs archers.  It also means better formations instead of 30 2Hs hiding behind 5 Shielders
Why cant you just put 1 point in shield?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Elindor on August 18, 2012, 10:41:41 pm
It is tougher for the losing team to get valor due to the nature of one team's tactics/domination over the other. I think there should be some sort of leeway with valor for the losing team (either a lower threshold or compare your score to your teammates').

^ This, doing well on the losing team is often much harder than doing well on the winning team.  This can be very true in battle and siege - in siege on offense at some castles it can quite a struggle to do well

And please chadz implement valor in all modes like your quote says (if you haven't already - including siege)  :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 18, 2012, 10:55:50 pm
Why cant you just put 1 point in shield?

Because usually Strat Commanders don't bother with requirement 1 shields. 

Lets try another tack for reversing this change though....  What happens when a team, for whatever reason, can't get 5 archers onto their roster?  You are effectively putting a minimum number of archers for rosters and pre-defining peoples tactics in battle.

Strat is meant to be about people coming up with their own tactics and then striving to implement them as best as possible.  The good archer heavy clans already use archer squads that group together to protect each other from Cav.  The good non-archer clans use Cav to stop the archers kiting and then decimate them with melee.  Other clans use a mix but this change is effectively saying that smaller numbers of good archers is NOT allowed in Strat and everybody has to either have lots of archers or go with none at all.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Braeden on August 18, 2012, 11:01:24 pm
Quote
Because usually Strat Commanders don't bother with requirement 1 shields. 
So, you want to modify the game mechanics because people are too lazy to buy old board shields?

Doesn't it seem easier for people to, I don't know, just buy them?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 18, 2012, 11:04:09 pm
Also, Teeth why don't you come hang out with your NA friends anymore? :(
Yeah, Teeth, I miss you man.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Molly on August 18, 2012, 11:37:08 pm
[...]
Valour in all gamemode work with score instead of the secret formula before.
Valour works for both sides.
Valour increases multi by 1

All of these changes are, for the time being, temporary, until we've decided if they work or not.
Why is valour even still in? It's bullcrap... always has been.  :|
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: DaveUKR on August 18, 2012, 11:51:05 pm
I think it's sorta funny that people say their arrows now glance as headshots or that it takes 3 headshots to kill people, admittedly I haven't played in a strat battle since the change but, if the change was a 50% nerf, and before headshots would onehit, there is no way in hell this can be right.

And to whoever bitched about xbowies having to stand together and not hide somewhere alone then I'll just say siege shields still exist...

I.e. 100 pierce deals more damage than two 50 pierce attacks. And higher armour your enemy has - bigger gap between 1 shot and 2 50% shots becomes. You have to learn how damage is calculated in this game before accusing someone of being a liar.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Syls on August 19, 2012, 02:53:31 am
The spawning time delay feature is really bad, we just spawn raped hospitallers because of it.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 19, 2012, 02:55:41 am
What syls said. Defence is HORRIBLY gimped if gear is equal. 4 seconds per death is horrible.

Spawn camping 1 single flag and you can permanantly remove a player from playing in the battle after 4 successive deaths.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Richter on August 19, 2012, 02:57:27 am
The spawning time delay feature is really bad, we just spawn raped hospitallers because of it.
I didn't even like it as an attacker in the same battle.

The new respawn system simply prolongs or vastly shortens battles.
Making me wait to get back into the battle after dying does not add any difficulty. This feature only widens the gaps between the winning and losing teams.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 19, 2012, 03:07:10 am
Defenders had an average of 7 deaths a person while offence had about a 3.5 deaths a person. If we count in at least 2 deaths from spawn camping thats not a huge difference in deaths yet one side got spawn camped to hell.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Bjarky on August 19, 2012, 04:07:01 am
thats also how the npc battles went on friday, seems like an abusable feature, on top of that its boring to sit and wait for a respawn that just delayes more over time, kinda makes battles more trivial than energetic.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on August 19, 2012, 04:42:16 am
First off, I agree with Thomas on fucking everything.

Also

1. The respawn timer +4 per death is silly and totally abusable. I like how Strat is basically TDM, btw.
2. I understand what you're trying to do to archers, but I totally disagree with your method. Make quivers 2 slots and drop-able without holding a bow, and boost the number of arrows per quiver. Thus, as Thomas and Matey desire, archers will have only 1 quiver each.

This means that archers will be less able to wander off from their team and kite like bundle of stickss, because they'll want to stay near weapon racks. The drop-ability of quivers, however, will add another dimension to battlefield logistics in strat. You could have runners/bitches who are dedicated to bringing ammunition to distant archers. This supply line is killable, flexible, and not too fun. Not many players would want to do this ammo transportation thing for too lon

2a. Another possibility is to nerf archer run speed, as someone has already suggested here. I think, however, that the first X seconds of running should be a slow jog, with the archer gaining speed quickly after X. This way, kiting's harder, but archers aren't crawling around the battlefield. 0-60 in 10 seconds, but after that the bitch runs fast.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aderyn on August 19, 2012, 04:49:47 am
i dont oneshots people with a bow so don't see why anyone else would. If you got oneshot with a bow you probably didn't wear a decent helmet.

If your refering to crossbow then get your facts right.


The new additions to respawntimer need to be fixed, it's horrible as it is. It's the end of big battles.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Dasty on August 19, 2012, 07:03:58 am
The new additions to respawn timer need to be fixed, it's horrible as it is. It's the end of big battles.

Maybe that's the point.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Paul on August 19, 2012, 08:27:06 am
I.e. 100 pierce deals more damage than two 50 pierce attacks. And higher armour your enemy has - bigger gap between 1 shot and 2 50% shots becomes. You have to learn how damage is calculated in this game before accusing someone of being a liar.

No, afaik the damage post-armor is altered and not pre-armor calc raw damage. That means two 50% shots really deal as much as one 100% shot - apart from remainder that is lost because of integer division.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: SHinOCk on August 19, 2012, 09:28:05 am
The death timer as it is right now makes strat battle really not fun and about the archers i feel like the only thing that really needs to be done is make them less accurate so we stop being a bunch of sniper, other than that, reducing the damage is a bit too much

also i dont know if it was intended but most of the arrows i shot were curving left and right like crazy preventing me from touching anything and making it impossible to anticipate where the arrows would end
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tore on August 19, 2012, 09:54:56 am
Dear devs

Since you add so many mini patches, why can't you make a mini patch with the chinese pack :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Rhekimos on August 19, 2012, 09:55:19 am
Maybe that's the point.

Huh? Those were the best part of Strategus.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 19, 2012, 10:21:28 am
Maybe that's the point.

In a way, yes. Raw troop numbers shouldn't be the main factor in large battles, but tactics. Having more troops will only help you so much. As for the archery change, I still didn't see proper comments that tell WHY the new system is bad.

Anyway, fixes coming on:
Changed respawn timer per death to 2 from 4 seconds.
Stopped spawnraping: When you kill an enemy on a flag, the flag gets lowered. You cannot tactically prolonge flag capping.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 19, 2012, 10:28:28 am
Stopped spawnraping: When you kill an enemy on a flag, the flag gets lowered. You cannot tactically prolonge flag capping.
Now this is perfect, thank you to whomever came up with this.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Rhekimos on August 19, 2012, 11:02:07 am
Now this is perfect, thank you to whomever came up with this.

Agreed, a great change.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: DaveUKR on August 19, 2012, 11:20:11 am
No, afaik the damage post-armor is altered and not pre-armor calc raw damage. That means two 50% shots really deal as much as one 100% shot - apart from remainder that is lost because of integer division.

Are you sure about that? I didn't use crossbows that much after these changes but it took only 25% of my hp after being shot by MW arba with MW steel bolts while i was in light armour.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Plavor on August 19, 2012, 12:19:11 pm
Well, many people play strategus because exp is a huge factor.  If the battles get shortened, you will get little exp per battle :(

Also,  nice that the spawntime went to 2 seconds per death :)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Matey on August 19, 2012, 12:30:22 pm
quick question bout the new "Flag drops if someone dies one it" thing.
Will flags go down if someone is shot to death while standing on the flag? oh and what if someone suicides by going spectator or something, would that lower a flag?

one more question, this one about the spawn delay...
have you implemented a maximum time to spawn? I realize you are trying to make large battles less appealing, but when they do happen it would be nice to have a limit to how long it takes people to spawn in order to avoid things just getting really boring. As I suggested earlier, why not try 20-30 seconds or so as a maximum. if one team is dominating the other they might have 2-8 second respawns compared to the enemies 20-30, that would be enough for them to go take the flags if the other side cant get its shit together in a hurry, but it also means if both teams are even then they would cap out at the same delay.

as for why your archer changes arent the best idea... well honestly it didnt seem to bad in the battle we did today with CHAOS vs Hosp, I guess it just needs more testing, but I worry that it may turn out to be a buff for archers as they could travel in groups of 5 and be better off than prior to the change. also the increased speed of archery may lead to logistic issues, but it also means they can be far more devastating when they first open up.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 19, 2012, 12:57:22 pm
I.e. 100 pierce deals more damage than two 50 pierce attacks. And higher armour your enemy has - bigger gap between 1 shot and 2 50% shots becomes. You have to learn how damage is calculated in this game before accusing someone of being a liar.
Still, 100 pierce is far more than enough, 50 pierce would still pretty much always 1shot if it was a headshot.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 19, 2012, 01:13:59 pm
WHY the new system is bad.

I think you just ignored the comments :P

1) It punishes teams that can only get 1-4 archers for a battle.
2) This will damage cav and melee focused clans and will probably increase the number of archers on cRPG as more clans ask their members to switch to ensure they can get 5+ archers for their battles. 
3) It punishes Horse Archery - how can 5 horse archers fight in close formation especially when the chances of getting 5 horse archers are minimal anyway?
4) It makes it harder to manage rosters.  Now you actually have to count your archers to make sure you have enough for your tactics.  This means that in general, commanders will have to pull in more applicants and reject more people to get the right balance.
5) It limits tactical options in battles and makes them predictable - You can only have flanking archers on both sides if you have enough archers for it. 
6) The archer heavy clans ALREADY use archer squads that stick loosely together
7) It nerfs the longbow even more.  The difference between the Long Bow speed and the Horn Bow speed is currently 11.  After the speed increase this gap goes to 19.  Between Rus and Long Bow it goes from 8 to 14.  Not only are Long Bows even slower in comparison, but they now can't hide on their own either to get shots from unexpected angles.
8) It makes defending castles/Towns harder for archers.  5 archers often can't fit close enough in a castle to fire together and by forcing the archers to group together it negates one of the main defensive principals of castle building - make your enemy attack where they can be fired upon from multiple angles.
9) It doesn't address the real problem with archery in Strat which is the fact that it is OP early on when there is very little Cav around.  Archery is pretty much balanced later in Strat when everybody has good armour and plenty of cav so why change it?

I can go on if you want :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Jacko on August 19, 2012, 01:28:40 pm
Just add pro's and con's for every class, grouped and none grouped. Problem solved.

Call it a moral system (combine it with banners and flags for added depth).
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Rhekimos on August 19, 2012, 01:49:23 pm
Just add pro's and con's for every class, grouped and none grouped. Problem solved.

Call it a moral system (combine it with banners and flags for added depth).

Please no more magic bonuses, or anything with an area of effect.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kunio on August 19, 2012, 02:07:40 pm
"I dont need sex because chadz fucks me in every patch"

                                                                           An Archer..
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Protemus on August 19, 2012, 03:03:17 pm
"I dont need sex because chadz fucks me in every patch"

                                                                           An Archer..

at least you're pleased...
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: djavo on August 19, 2012, 03:05:40 pm
"I dont need sex because chadz fucks me in every patch"

                                                                           An crpg player..

This needs to be in loading screen
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: DaveUKR on August 19, 2012, 03:12:07 pm
Still, 100 pierce is far more than enough, 50 pierce would still pretty much always 1shot if it was a headshot.

It was also raining, so additional -25%
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Leshma on August 19, 2012, 03:49:19 pm
Two shots can't be effective as one shot doing double damage because you have to aim two times...
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: chadz on August 19, 2012, 03:58:02 pm
Can't fool Leshma, he notices it all!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Camaris on August 19, 2012, 04:16:18 pm
I hope we still have those huge fights.
XP on small battles is shit. And playing for 10 minutes and then its over is shit too.
I love 1000 vs 1000 and bigger ones. Pls dont kill those chadz.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on August 19, 2012, 05:38:24 pm
I hope we still have those huge fights.
XP on small battles is shit. And playing for 10 minutes and then its over is shit too.
I love 1000 vs 1000 and bigger ones. Pls dont kill those chadz.
1000 vs 1000 battles are a complete grindfest and boring as hell. You just throw yourself at the same spot for about two hours.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Braeden on August 19, 2012, 05:55:50 pm
I always go to a different spot because NLR prohibits me from taking vengeance.

Wait we don't have NLR?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Bulzur on August 19, 2012, 05:56:52 pm
1000 vs 1000 battles are a complete grindfest and boring as hell. You just throw yourself at the same spot for about two hours.

That's against AI castle, they can now last for 15 min when it's between players. Quantity over quality, take the spawn, the end.
To think i waited two hours for that kind of battle...
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Garem on August 19, 2012, 06:39:20 pm
The death timer as it is right now makes strat battle really not fun and about the archers i feel like the only thing that really needs to be done is make them less accurate so we stop being a bunch of sniper, other than that, reducing the damage is a bit too much

also i dont know if it was intended but most of the arrows i shot were curving left and right like crazy preventing me from touching anything and making it impossible to anticipate where the arrows would end

I appreciate that this is being said by a new archer. Congratulations on trying out the class, of course. It's a new and interesting challenge for cRPG.

What you're experiencing is the slow realization that your preconceived notion - that archers are snipers - is dead wrong. They're not. At all. Plus, even if they hit someone at ranges of 100m+ based off of the necessary luck, they aren't going to do any real damage.

Anyways, Tomas is right in both posts I saw.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Smoothrich on August 19, 2012, 07:12:24 pm
I appreciate that this is being said by a new archer. Congratulations on trying out the class, of course. It's a new and interesting challenge for cRPG.

What you're experiencing is the slow realization that your preconceived notion - that archers are snipers - is dead wrong. They're not. At all. Plus, even if they hit someone at ranges of 100m+ based off of the necessary luck, they aren't going to do any real damage.

Anyways, Tomas is right in both posts I saw.

He's not a new archer, archery has always been a solo hero sniper class, able to defeat almost any other class except shielders 1 vs 1 no matter the circumstances from any range within 3 shots.  If its a shielder, you just run away and they will die to some other bullshit within seconds regardless, or 2 shot them the moment they do something besides chase you with a shield up.

Replace 3 shot with 1 shot kill if you can aim.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on August 19, 2012, 07:41:18 pm
I'm also not a fan of the magic bonuses, because they're, well, magic. But the nature of cRPG raises certain issues...

I like the shield-wall mechanic, because it makes sense. As you get on-line with your comrades in arms, you might think Our shields are overlapping, plus I feel better that my buddies are right next to me.

However, whereas real life overlaps pleasantly with the shield wall magical bonus in crpg, it does not do so with archery. The advantage given by clumping archers IRL was one of coordination, whereby a group leader could verbally direct his subordinate's fire more easily. But communication in our game is instant and works regardless of in-game distance between players. Coordination between far-flung archers is possible, so that archers can scatter all over the map and still call their shots, concentrate their fire on specific targets/groups, or plan their movement.

Right now, regarding damage output, there's rarely a reason to lump archers together. Occasionally lumping exploits some sort of angular advantage over the enemy, but rarely is real lumping necessary. What you, chadz, are trying to do is force archers to do something that goes against the grain of current cRPG mechanics. Slapping a magical bonus on the problem ignores its source, which lies in the nature of the game we play.

But what's the alternative? I think exploiting the other aspects of this game, and something subtler, like (as has been already suggested) limiting the amount of arrows carried, and making archers less Ethiopian in their running ability. Also, the dynamic of player class interaction (I'm gay) can help here. Scattering your archers can influence their survivability:

1. Scattered archers can get rushed by cavalry, which right now depend on speed and surprise, rather than HP and armor, to kill their victims. The two means to cavalry ass-kick--survivability and surprise--are at odds right now. The faster horses are cheaper than the survivable horses.
2. Scattered archers can get rushed by shielders. They will kite and scatter even more in response to an infantry rush, which distracts them. Enter surprise-attack cavalry. Or, just keep them running.
3. Any archers are vulnerable to other archers. While harder to hit than if they are clumped together, scattered archers are more likely get killed one at a time by dedicated anti-archer archers.

tl;dr: Rather than wizardry, do something less homosexual to nerf ranged. Work with the game we have, rather than against it. The alternative is fundamentally altering cRPG at its source.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on August 19, 2012, 08:05:54 pm
That's against AI castle, they can now last for 15 min when it's between players. Quantity over quality, take the spawn, the end.
To think i waited two hours for that kind of battle...
Every siege I've played took more than an hour and was a complete grindfest, slowly grinding the tickets of the other team down. I've played quite a few two months ago.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Garem on August 19, 2012, 08:39:25 pm
1. Scattered archers can get rushed by cavalry, which right now depend on speed and surprise, rather than HP and armor, to kill their victims. The two means to cavalry ass-kick--survivability and surprise--are at odds right now. The faster horses are cheaper than the survivable horses.
2. Scattered archers can get rushed by shielders. They will kite and scatter even more in response to an infantry rush, which distracts them. Enter surprise-attack cavalry. Or, just keep them running.
3. Any archers are vulnerable to other archers. While harder to hit than if they are clumped together, scattered archers are more likely get killed one at a time by dedicated anti-archer archers.

tl;dr: Rather than wizardry, do something less homosexual to nerf ranged. Work with the game we have, rather than against it. The alternative is fundamentally altering cRPG at its source.

While I agree with your outcome...

 #1 is not true- the opposite is, in fact, true. Light horses are vulnerable to archer fire, but even Coursers take 3-4 arrows; Destriers 4-7. Light horses are pretty hard to hit until they're coming right at you when it's pretty much too late for an archer (going away is also easy, but damage is half or less because of movement). Heavy horses aren't even worth firing at as an archer, unless it's 5-6 archers against a single heavy cav. He'll still kill at least 2-3 archers before the horse can be brought down. And then you have an infantry in your group to deal with.

#2 is true, but so is the opposite. Scattered, clumped, it doesn't matter- shielders will always push you around, especially ones with some coordination. Man-to-man coverage makes archery impossible against aggressive shields.

#3 is totally wrong, in the game, in history, and by simple logic. Scattering archers makes staying alive against other archers FAR easier. Archery isn't this magical sniper rifle that you seem to think it is. When enemy archers are clumped and you miss your target, you still might hit another one nearby. When they're apart, a perfectly aimed shot going astray hits grass. So no, this is just factually incorrect.


The problem isn't range, the problem is Strategus balance. This should come as no surprise. Why don't you see throwers in Strategus? Why don't you see cavalry before plate armor shows up? This patch was treating a symptom, not the disease.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aderyn on August 19, 2012, 09:04:40 pm
I think you just ignored the comments :P

1) It punishes teams that can only get 1-4 archers for a battle.
2) This will damage cav and melee focused clans and will probably increase the number of archers on cRPG as more clans ask their members to switch to ensure they can get 5+ archers for their battles. 
3) It punishes Horse Archery - how can 5 horse archers fight in close formation especially when the chances of getting 5 horse archers are minimal anyway?
4) It makes it harder to manage rosters.  Now you actually have to count your archers to make sure you have enough for your tactics.  This means that in general, commanders will have to pull in more applicants and reject more people to get the right balance.
5) It limits tactical options in battles and makes them predictable - You can only have flanking archers on both sides if you have enough archers for it. 
6) The archer heavy clans ALREADY use archer squads that stick loosely together
7) It nerfs the longbow even more.  The difference between the Long Bow speed and the Horn Bow speed is currently 11.  After the speed increase this gap goes to 19.  Between Rus and Long Bow it goes from 8 to 14.  Not only are Long Bows even slower in comparison, but they now can't hide on their own either to get shots from unexpected angles.
8) It makes defending castles/Towns harder for archers.  5 archers often can't fit close enough in a castle to fire together and by forcing the archers to group together it negates one of the main defensive principals of castle building - make your enemy attack where they can be fired upon from multiple angles.
9) It doesn't address the real problem with archery in Strat which is the fact that it is OP early on when there is very little Cav around.  Archery is pretty much balanced later in Strat when everybody has good armour and plenty of cav so why change it?

I can go on if you want :D

It's almost as if chadz doesn't want to read your posts thomas :|
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Patoson on August 19, 2012, 11:16:44 pm
The new chamber-kick is hilarious! I had 1 hp, kicked a friend of mine, he chambered it and I died of the chamber-kick. Simply epic! :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Dark_Blade on August 20, 2012, 02:21:47 am
I lol'd.on strat battle I had score ~50k 25d ... but in page "Paticipated" I have so another score - 60 46 o_O I didnt leave the server while the battle... so what is this?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Knute on August 20, 2012, 05:41:46 am

Ranged: Increase the need for logistics. Archers will run out of arrows quicker, so people have to provide weapon racks to them. In general, it's intended as a nerf for archers in strat, as we've seen many people respec their main to archers since the new round of strat was announced. I don't like that it turns into a ranged fest, so this is my proposed counter.

Edit: archers standing in close formation will have +10% damage bonus per teammate, up to where they are back to 100%. We'll have to figure out if the speed buff will then have to be removed/reduced.

If the problem is people respecing to archer early in every version of strat because people can't afford decent shields or horses to counter them, you could give everyone (or fiefs) some starting gold.  This would help shorten the peasant fight phase and possibly lead to less people respecing to archers temporarily.

If there's gold in fiefs it would also up the ante on the kickoff so people might go for a fief closer to them instead of their old claims so they won't risk losing that starting gold.

----

With the new trade system where it's just a matter of running back and forth between two points, it seems like gold is going to multiply really fast anyway.  So that might already be something that'll help shorten the window where archers are overpowered.

Lastly, the best thing about the shieldwall bonus is that it's an optional buff that rewarded players for something they were already doing.  I like the idea of archers grouping up to launch volleys of plastic arrows and relying on engineers to keep them supplied but think it would be better if there was some way to make it more of an optional buff as well so it wouldn't limit tactics.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 20, 2012, 03:36:49 pm
Getting valour with a 5x should give you a 6x and so on. Just for valour, keep it capped at x5 for regular multi. I guess this might be too big of a buff to heavy cav+full plate "knights". Who would be able to upkeep it with x10s or other retarded multis.
Also, can we finally get the old secret valour formula now that it is no longer in use?

Other then that, roll out the wpf changes!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Elindor on August 20, 2012, 03:39:41 pm
How does the new valor system work....I know what chadz said in first post but it doesn't seem as simple as "have highest score in a round, get valor" or "have highest overall score, get valor"...

Also, Im undecided about valor being received by winning team.  As long as this doesn't detract from the ability of the well performing players on the losing  team to get valor I guess it doesn't matter.  Kinda see valor as a "consolation prize" for well performing players on the losing team lol.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Plavor on August 20, 2012, 03:57:37 pm
Newest formula : Player score greater than average score*2

I think that the score depends on the scoregain in every round, not in total.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: dodnet on August 20, 2012, 04:16:12 pm
Newest formula : Player score greater than average score*2

I think that the score depends on the scoregain in every round, not in total.

I don't like it. Valour should be either removed completely or only the losing team gets it like before.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Turboflex on August 20, 2012, 04:21:58 pm
I like the new valor system, it's a good step towards a new reward system that is mixed team multi and individual performance. Gives people incentive to play harder even if they are on a hopeless losing team, or still keep trying hard when they are on a good team and are tempted to just sit back and goof off leeching.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 20, 2012, 05:19:38 pm
chadz ; i know you like changes but here is my humble idea ; instead of changing strategus in every round why we don't have 1 version without any bugs ?

I mean these sieges ; lagapults , siege towers , forwards bases which are awesome and totally fun to play ; we already got everything and im pretty sure we like it at all. But when you try or put something new to strategus which totally aiming to change whole game ofcourse it makes some bugs.

It is really hard to manage a faction and also it needs time so we are trying to make our factions to get moar power every round ; we are preparing with old stuff not with the new changes that we don't know.

I am pretty sure most of players on strategus just want to fight not really manage the little things ; strategus must not be known by only faction leaders. Just make it simple
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Jarlek on August 20, 2012, 05:28:18 pm
I like additions like catapults, siege towers, ballistas, burning oil (buildable shit in general), shieldwall bonus, strategus itself and the like. If they just worked on what they had, cRPG would never have gotten any of the awesome things that we have now.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 20, 2012, 05:39:06 pm
chadz ; i know you like changes but here is my humble idea ; instead of changing strategus in every round why we don't have 1 version without any bugs ?

I mean these sieges ; lagapults , siege towers , forwards bases which are awesome and totally fun to play ; we already got everything and im pretty sure we like it at all. But when you try or put something new to strategus which totally aiming to change whole game ofcourse it makes some bugs.

It is really hard to manage a faction and also it needs time so we are trying to make our factions to get moar power every round ; we are preparing with old stuff not with the new changes that we don't know.

I am pretty sure most of players on strategus just want to fight not really manage the little things ; strategus must not be known by only faction leaders. Just make it simple

That is the point of him changing stuff now prior to the wipe. The devs are testing stuff out to see what they want for next strat. The game isn't in beta and we aren't about to start the fourth version of strat because it is a finished product.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Nebun on August 20, 2012, 07:35:11 pm
there was a lot of sieges lately and on siege archers did good, but now in field battle there was no archer with positive KD ratio. its already bad enough to play archer, and with the new patch next strat i doubt there will be any

i know a lot of archers who just waiting right now to see if this new archer system will stay - they will all re-spec, if it won't stay maybe they will keep playing archer.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Shrugging Khan on August 20, 2012, 09:43:24 pm
It appears that the game will not show the weight values of equipment below 0.3 weight.

Is this a display error, an intentional omission to confuse player, or are these items actually weightless?

I ask because the c-prg.net page does still list these items with their weight values.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: ManOfWar on August 20, 2012, 11:44:31 pm
Have to say that i think you are going about this the wrong way

The reason people are respeccing is because early on in Strat there is no Cav which means archers are king.  No Cav means archers are free to kite as much as they want without fear.  Once Strat gets far enough that we have Cav again all these respeccers will respec right back to melee/cav again.

What needs to happen is the following

1) Decrease the cost of the lighter horses
2) Increase in the cost of the heavier bows/xbows.
3) Fix Cav spawns (if not already done)
4) Prevent Spawning when there are enemies within 1 or 2m of a spawn flag.  This will mean that teams have to defend in FRONT of their spawn.  Currently most teams defend behind it and just charge down when needed.  This allows defending archers to hug the hill that usually occurs at the edge of the map meaning their backs are always protected.  Force them forward and they are then more vulnerable to flanking attacks and less OP.
5) Make Shield requirements strength based for Strat.  Without skill even the decent 1 slot shields will break in melee quickly so they are only really useful vs archers.  It also means better formations instead of 30 2Hs hiding behind 5 Shielders

This man is a genius
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: dodnet on August 20, 2012, 11:53:06 pm
New valour system is plain shit... if you watch it, its the same ppl getting valour every round. Seriously?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: TommyHu on August 21, 2012, 08:56:38 am
last strat battle I was in didn't seem to keep the +2 sec per death going. at one point, around 15ish deaths, I only had a +5 or so timer. meaning it was a 20 sec spawn with 15 deaths. which was kind of nice considering Im not a fan of the new spawn/death system. Seems to me that the new spawn system only exaggerates the losing once your team is starting to fall. I personally don't understand the need to, in your words: make it so we play more tactically. If everyone on your team just continues to hold W and return to the front willy nilly it doesnt bode well for your team before the new spawn system. Now it just makes it a lot tougher to come back from an early asskicking. Not only that it really only seems to affect the defenders. When attacking your team naturally has more time/distance to get organized and charge as a unit. When defending, if you actually defend your village and not push out, you're naturally only a few steps from your flags, and if you start to get handicapped by the spawn times you have no real chance of regaining/neturalizing the front
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on August 21, 2012, 09:33:03 am
Have to say that i think you are going about this the wrong way

The reason people are respeccing is because early on in Strat there is no Cav which means archers are king.  No Cav means archers are free to kite as much as they want without fear.  Once Strat gets far enough that we have Cav again all these respeccers will respec right back to melee/cav again.
Aren't 80% of the strat battles castle and town sieges, where cav can't do shit?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Vibe on August 21, 2012, 10:02:54 am
Aren't 80% of the strat battles castle and town sieges, where cav can't do shit?

Got a point there.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Plavor on August 21, 2012, 11:00:55 am
Aren't 80% of the strat battles castle and town sieges, where cav can't do shit?

In 50% of the townsieges, cav are really useful if gates are open, they can charge in and push the defenders back or they can just fight in the open field or defend the flags..
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 21, 2012, 11:12:13 am
Aren't 80% of the strat battles castle and town sieges, where cav can't do shit?

Right now they are because the final EU fiefs are being mopped up.  You forget the vast numbers of Village Battles though

So far I have participated in
- 58 Battles (14 of which were no shows or just 1 enemy)
- 73 Village Sieges (8 of which were no shows)
- 12 Castle Sieges
- 9 Town Sieges

Its only rough and i'm not the biggest AI siege XP whore, but even if you doubled the Town and Castle Sieges they would still be the minority rather than the 80% you predict
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Cicero on August 21, 2012, 01:11:34 pm
Is there a stats thing for that or you are crazy enough to count them manually ?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 21, 2012, 06:22:28 pm
Is there a stats thing for that or you are crazy enough to count them manually ?

Copy and paste into excel and then do your own stats thing.  I don't have enough fingers and toes to manually count :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Overdriven on August 21, 2012, 07:12:22 pm
Aren't 80% of the strat battles castle and town sieges, where cav can't do shit?

Village battles are the most common. Cav is very useful in those (most pubby maps ffs) but in this strat it took a long time for any significant numbers of cav to show, way after most villages had been mopped up and fought over, simply because of cost. If light cav was cheaper it would make a big difference early on.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: BattalGazi on August 21, 2012, 09:14:53 pm
Have to say that i think you are going about this the wrong way

The reason people are respeccing is because early on in Strat there is no Cav which means archers are king.  No Cav means archers are free to kite as much as they want without fear.  Once Strat gets far enough that we have Cav again all these respeccers will respec right back to melee/cav again.

What needs to happen is the following

1) Decrease the cost of the lighter horses
2) Increase in the cost of the heavier bows/xbows.
3) Fix Cav spawns (if not already done)
4) Prevent Spawning when there are enemies within 1 or 2m of a spawn flag.  This will mean that teams have to defend in FRONT of their spawn.  Currently most teams defend behind it and just charge down when needed.  This allows defending archers to hug the hill that usually occurs at the edge of the map meaning their backs are always protected.  Force them forward and they are then more vulnerable to flanking attacks and less OP.
5) Make Shield requirements strength based for Strat.  Without skill even the decent 1 slot shields will break in melee quickly so they are only really useful vs archers.  It also means better formations instead of 30 2Hs hiding behind 5 Shielders

This.

+

This looks like a vicious cycle. You basically removed cavalry from strat. Archers became free and deadly. Now you remove archers from strat. Infantry became free and deadly. Hope you will remove infantry soon, so that trees will become free and deadly.

Solution is simple: bring back cav.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Matey on August 22, 2012, 12:23:24 am
people keep quoting that... but making shield based off str is terrible. you wanna see 39/3 shielders with unbreakable shields who tons of damage? no thanks.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Miracle on August 22, 2012, 12:29:11 am
What if there was a way to base a cetain amount of shield off strength?  Say, for example, you can only get a maximum of 3 shield from STR and if you wish for higher shield it would come from AGI (You would have to have at least 12 AGI to get the 4th point for shield).  This would be the only way I see this working.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 22, 2012, 12:35:06 am
people keep quoting that... but making shield based off str is terrible. you wanna see 39/3 shielders with unbreakable shields who tons of damage? no thanks.

Shield skill will still be agility based.  It is the Shield Requirement that would be Strength based.

So 39/3 will be able to use a Huscarl or Steel Shield but only with 1 Shield Skill meaning it should break pretty quickly in melee but will protect you from ranged nicely.  If needed, basic shield stats can be lowered and shield skill can be buffed but i'd test it a bit first
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: BattalGazi on August 22, 2012, 12:39:51 am
Actually I guess chadz fixed the archery. Thats what he said at the beginning of a strat battle a couple of hours ago ...
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Matey on August 22, 2012, 12:12:00 pm
Shield skill will still be agility based.  It is the Shield Requirement that would be Strength based.

So 39/3 will be able to use a Huscarl or Steel Shield but only with 1 Shield Skill meaning it should break pretty quickly in melee but will protect you from ranged nicely.  If needed, basic shield stats can be lowered and shield skill can be buffed but i'd test it a bit first

i could live with that, but if everyone jacks my shields and gets them broken in 1 hit id be sad D:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Jarlek on August 22, 2012, 08:13:20 pm
i could live with that, but if everyone jacks my shields and gets them broken in 1 hit id be sad D:
People jacking your shields and waste them will be a problem the same way people can jack your crossbows and waste them.

Nothing physically stops them, but fuck no if anyone will accept them in strat battles again.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Akhilles on August 22, 2012, 08:21:52 pm
Swords and spears unable mesh= brf files failed repear brf files.Texture,normal and specular map failed.New fix pack pls.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 22, 2012, 09:06:44 pm
YaY! By adding the hurricane-effect on arrows archery is now utterly useless in strat =D

Tried to aim for archers far behind our infantry today and *swoooooosh* arrow changed its mind and hits teammates. The dmg-nerf might be alright and encouraged teamplay with other archers, but the range for that effect is way too small.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tomas on August 22, 2012, 09:36:36 pm
YaY! By adding the hurricane-effect on arrows archery is now utterly useless in strat =D

Tried to aim for archers far behind our infantry today and *swoooooosh* arrow changed its mind and hits teammates. The dmg-nerf might be alright and encouraged teamplay with other archers, but the range for that effect is way too small.

The veering arrows is a bug

The speed and damage changes have been reverted according to BattalGazi
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Fips on August 22, 2012, 10:21:15 pm
The veering arrows is a bug

The speed and damage changes have been reverted according to BattalGazi

Yeah, i just noticed on the grey-battle. Thank god xD
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: BattalGazi on August 22, 2012, 10:23:06 pm
Well I attended a strat battle ( Saracens vs Templars theme battle ), there I saw shazbot, or as widely known chadz, reported at the beginning of the game that the archery thing is reverted.

I was there as a horse archer and my shots were quite accurate but not deadly. I can easily say that the hurricane effect was removed. But I still doubt about the damage thingy, my shots were either not deadly because I was using tatars against heavy armor or the decrease of damage was still there.

Lets hear what the donkey says about this.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Germanicus on August 22, 2012, 10:42:47 pm
i am a huge fan of the respawn timer there, excellent idea i think, as the battles stand as of current it's basically a TDM ... longer respawn timers makes a lot of sense and lowers the capability of the suiciders to grief.

Kudos.

The archer damage - 50%, right, this is dumb. No offense, but at 7 PD with tatar arrows and a horn bow my arrows would regularly bounce (thus no damage or stun) from people with 65+ body armour (meaning a lot of people). If the damage is halved, the amount of arrows that bounce will be absolutely insane. If all our arrows bounce off heavy armour, what's the point in shooting twice as fast ?

I think it is rather ridiculous that with a simple sword, 100 WPF and 7 PS i can quite easily kill a tincan, however with 7 PD, the third best arrows (tatar) and a horn bow, i can hardly touch a tincan. I understand you want to make the game more logistical, which is great, but i think this is a wrong change.



if you dont wanna have bounces, buy an xbow thats exactly what theyre made for, to penetrate armor which bows wasnt able
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Shadowren on August 23, 2012, 09:21:30 pm
IDK about anyone else but my Crpg is having issues with normal text like you are reading now. It is just big squares where normal text should be.

I tried re downloading the new launcher and repairing it. I have been  starting it up every day to see if an update is available and also using "repair". Still nothing to fix this issue.

Any help will be greatly appreciated  :D

Edit: Going to just delete everything and re download mod since many people says that fixes the issue.......

Edit again: That fixed it  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Inglorious on August 23, 2012, 10:19:37 pm
IDK about anyone else but my Crpg is having issues with normal text like you are reading now. It is just big squares where normal text should be.

I tried re downloading the new launcher and repairing it. I have been  starting it up every day to see if an update is available and also using "repair". Still nothing to fix this issue.

Any help will be greatly appreciated  :D

Edit: Going to just delete everything and re download mod since many people says that fixes the issue.......

Edit again: That fixed it  :mrgreen:

Thanks for posting this, I was concerned!
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Shadowren on August 23, 2012, 11:22:53 pm
NP  :D
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Sniger on August 25, 2012, 12:44:22 pm
new valour system make ppl camp. logic imo.

i camp alot more than i use to and i dont like it but if i want valour...
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 25, 2012, 09:42:54 pm
new valour system make ppl camp. logic imo.

i camp alot more than i use to and i dont like it but if i want valour...

New valor system relies on damage dealt now, confuzzled by why that makes you camp.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Patoson on August 30, 2012, 08:20:24 pm
The new valour system is a nice idea, but I really don't like it. You see the best players getting it all the time (you see it because you can read it every time they are awarded with it), and it discourages people with less skills, like me. This just makes those "pros" level up much faster than you, getting ultimate builds faster than you.

The old system rewarded people who lost alongside their team yet performed well. People who won already had their multi raised. I think it was perfect the way it was.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Wiltzu on August 30, 2012, 11:26:40 pm
I like the new valour system. It encourages shielders, as it's easier to get valour if you're shielder--->you hit enemy more times than 2h/pole(they kill the enemy more faster) plus you're close to fights.
It's not so friendly towards xbows (IMO it's fine for archers, as archers don't usually oneshot ppl). I kill 3 people(and now I mean more like oneshotting, not "killstealing") and I hardly get 10score, if I hit some1 3 times with my sword and I don't even kill the person there's a good chance I might get over 10 score.

And Vidar, it doesn't matter how long you survive, it's all about hitting the ppl. You can easily get +30score in the first 1min and 30sec if you're good melee player.


Anyways I like the current score system. The point when I start QQ about it is IF the new gold/xp system will be based on score.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Skyline on August 30, 2012, 11:35:14 pm
Im just gunna throw this in there as well...... last night i watched round after round of someone getting valor........... guess how..........
FUCKING PUNCHING. scores like 2/5, 4/4, 1/8, but the points would be like 150+.......
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on August 31, 2012, 01:10:24 am
The new valour system is a nice idea, but I really don't like it. You see the best players getting it all the time (you see it because you can read it every time they are awarded with it), and it discourages people with less skills, like me. This just makes those "pros" level up much faster than you, getting ultimate builds faster than you.

The old system rewarded people who lost alongside their team yet performed well. People who won already had their multi raised. I think it was perfect the way it was.
I don't see much use for the extra multi for the winning team, I'm not complaining about it though. Apart from that I don't see how the best players should not be the ones to get it all the time. Whoever does the much damage does most for his team, atleast as far as a system can understand it. Less skillful people can get valour if they shine for a round, but if they don't they shouldn't get valour. The getting ultimate builds is not really an issue, this game has been online now for 2 years, yet there's only a handful of lvl 35's. Retiring and respecs kinda keep that in check you know.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Joker86 on August 31, 2012, 09:59:37 am
Didn't I read somewhere long time ago that valour was actually meant to reward mediocre and bad players if they made a good round?

And if not, I think it's the way it should be. I don't see any reason to further reward those no-life-tryhards with their 24-2 scores. I'd rather care about the motivation of the average player, because character development (skills, equipment) is not the strongest motivation when you are being cut into pieces every round due to missing skill.

But let's see how the new income system will look like, I can't await to see the multiplier system gone, it was a fail concept from the very first moment on, at least in my opinion.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Ubereem on August 31, 2012, 11:28:48 am
^^ I agree with the Joker here that the bonus valor system fails. It only seems to reward the same people round after round after round. It should be for losing team only and more random. These 30-3 2h bastards can rack up points a lot faster than my 12-21 2h. I may even get more hits and more kills but still not receive valor. I also see archers who get zero kills but lots of hits get valor, that does not make sense. Also I like to relax and RP and not feel the need to chase down naked peasants just to get valor. Fuck man when I see a peasant I let him be and go after a real challenge.

 I play mostly NA siege and some rounds you have to camp flag to guard against backdoor flankers, now how the fuck am I going to get valor bonus when I'm camping flag? I don't need an answer to that I just hope you get my point.



OT: do these siege fixes affect NA siege or are we still bastard child? please hurry and change servers so we can get corpse hit and the other good things. i still think we have polestun lol
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on August 31, 2012, 07:41:32 pm
^^ I agree with the Joker here that the bonus valor system fails. It only seems to reward the same people round after round after round. It should be for losing team only and more random. These 30-3 2h bastards can rack up points a lot faster than my 12-21 2h. I may even get more hits and more kills but still not receive valor. I also see archers who get zero kills but lots of hits get valor, that does not make sense.
These people deal damage, its not about kills. Forget kills, kills are nothing to be proud of. If these 30-3 2h's and these archers with 0 kills deal more damage than you do, why is it unfair that they get rewarded for that?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kafein on September 01, 2012, 02:09:52 am
These people deal damage, its not about kills. Forget kills, kills are nothing to be proud of. If these 30-3 2h's and these archers with 0 kills deal more damage than you do, why is it unfair that they get rewarded for that?

Actually, I believe kills are much more important than any kind of damage. Numerous times did I help my team effectively winning the round, with either me or my horse at the edge of death. Damage is important too of course, but certainly not as much as it is for the score system.

Then again, people will naturally be killhungry even without a motivation so it's maybe a good idea to have a skewed score system to balance that behavior.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Ubereem on September 01, 2012, 05:49:27 am
These people deal damage, its not about kills. Forget kills, kills are nothing to be proud of. If these 30-3 2h's and these archers with 0 kills deal more damage than you do, why is it unfair that they get rewarded for that?
listen i am almost always in the top 10 or top 5 on my team and almost never get bonus valor. the system is stoopid and only rewards the same players over and over again. maybe its different on battle but on siege this is how it goes
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Toodles on September 01, 2012, 11:21:15 am
I guess anyone who's seen me around knows it usually plays in my favour as I seem to hit valour one in three rounds on average - possibly more. Theres a simple reason for this : I'm often one of the first to fight and last to die. Yes, a shield helps a great deal with this, but why should I not be rewarded for dealing the greatest amount of damage to the greatest number of foes?

This is a system that promotes harming the enemy, as opposed to whatever the hell was going on previously. That the players who best serve their team be rewarded most makes a great deal of sense to me.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Teeth on September 01, 2012, 11:33:53 am
Actually, I believe kills are much more important than any kind of damage. Numerous times did I help my team effectively winning the round, with either me or my horse at the edge of death. Damage is important too of course, but certainly not as much as it is for the score system.

Then again, people will naturally be killhungry even without a motivation so it's maybe a good idea to have a skewed score system to balance that behavior.
Yes ofcourse killing an opponent is better than leaving him fully functional at 1 hp. The thing is, everyone hits enemies with the intention of killing him, whether you get the killing blow is basically not up to you but a matter of circumstances. I really think that someone who hits an enemy and does 20 damage should get the same reward as someone who hits an enemy for 20 damage and happens to kill them. They have the same intention and do the same damage, should the last person really be rewarded more because his hit happened to be the last hit?

There is obviously enough motivation for killing already anyhow with it being displayed on the scoreboard and on the website, atleast now you won't be that pissed if someone gets the last hit on a plate guy you've been wearing down for a minute.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kafein on September 01, 2012, 11:44:13 am
Yes ofcourse killing an opponent is better than leaving him fully functional at 1 hp. The thing is, everyone hits enemies with the intention of killing him, whether you get the killing blow is basically not up to you but a matter of circumstances. I really think that someone who hits an enemy and does 20 damage should get the same reward as someone who hits an enemy for 20 damage and happens to kill them. They have the same intention and do the same damage, should the last person really be rewarded more because his hit happened to be the last hit?

There is obviously enough motivation for killing already anyhow with it being displayed on the scoreboard and on the website, atleast now you won't be that pissed if someone gets the last hit on a plate guy you've been wearing down for a minute.

Only a few builds can hope to kill a full HP random enemy in one blow. The others have to keep track of the average damage each enemy took, in order to attack the weak first. An agi build that would knowingly just attack people once then flee shouldn't get as much points as the same build, fighting until enemies die.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Toodles on September 01, 2012, 12:09:05 pm
An agi build that would knowingly just attack people once then flee shouldn't get as much points as the same build, fighting until enemies die.

What you seem to be suggesting is that the former player is worth less than the latter - I don't believe this is true, regardless of playstyle damage is damage. What of all the backstabs that DON'T result in death? What if the AGI build has gone around hitting each enemy once and fled - surely this makes it EASIER for those who stand and fight considering their opponents are weakened, no?

When I see someone coming in from behind on the guy I'm fighting I'll HOLD my attack and maneuver my foe in a way that gives my teammate a clear shot for the back, then as soon as he lets go of his attack - I let go of mine. We've BOTH scored a free hit on our enemy AND are in a perfect position for a stunlock, while our playstyles may differ we've cooperated to bring about victory - now isn't this what it's all about? While my build gives me staying power, his gives him mobility.

Everyone wants to kill, I don't think theres a point to promoting it further - the scoreboard already does a fine job with that.
:p
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: FleetFox on September 01, 2012, 03:56:31 pm
Well said Bjorn, +1
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kafein on September 01, 2012, 04:40:48 pm
What you seem to be suggesting is that the former player is worth less than the latter - I don't believe this is true, regardless of playstyle damage is damage. What of all the backstabs that DON'T result in death? What if the AGI build has gone around hitting each enemy once and fled - surely this makes it EASIER for those who stand and fight considering their opponents are weakened, no?

When I see someone coming in from behind on the guy I'm fighting I'll HOLD my attack and maneuver my foe in a way that gives my teammate a clear shot for the back, then as soon as he lets go of his attack - I let go of mine. We've BOTH scored a free hit on our enemy AND are in a perfect position for a stunlock, while our playstyles may differ we've cooperated to bring about victory - now isn't this what it's all about? While my build gives me staying power, his gives him mobility.

Everyone wants to kill, I don't think theres a point to promoting it further - the scoreboard already does a fine job with that.
:p

All of this is true, I just said that since players have ways to concentrate on delivering killing blows or not, by changing their playstyle a bit. And since in two situations in which you deliver the same damage, you will have a greater tactical advantage (since wounded enemies fight just as good as fresh ones) when you kill more people.

That's why kills maybe should be rewarded. Of course, and as I already said (actually I don't want to write this again so there's a quote of myself) :

Then again, people will naturally be killhungry even without a motivation so it's maybe a good idea to have a skewed score system to balance that behavior.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Micah on September 03, 2012, 12:14:33 pm
Anyways I like the current score system. The point when I start QQ about it is IF the new gold/xp system will be based on score.
Start QQing now ... since the valor reward is affecting the multiplier , which is basically the same.

Quote from: Micah_the_Antiscorist date=-1
All other scoreboard worshipers , keep praising and get errected over your score god and dont start thinking about how much freedom you sacrifice for it ... its just a beta tests on the stairway to gamer heaven
... and if you feel treated unjust by an obscure number generator ... PRAY HARDER ! Because if you would start thinking you might find , that a formula can not be just nor fair and neither can it replace intelligent teamplay and tactics over communication ...  yes, its a deaf and dull god and will lead into a blind alley, but if thou faith is pure enough it will be paradise

-1 for blasphemy  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Siiem on September 03, 2012, 07:44:56 pm
I like pancakes.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kafein on September 03, 2012, 07:47:00 pm
I like pancakes.

Where's you twin brother ?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Micah on September 04, 2012, 10:23:43 am
I like pancakes.
pancakes are all mine !
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Arrowblood on September 04, 2012, 04:54:39 pm
GiEfaNoTeHrPaTcHiAmBoReD
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 04, 2012, 05:46:18 pm
If you're doing close to the most damage in a round for your team you have a good chance of getting valor.  It helps if you're fighting near teammates I believe (at least it appears that way), and if you are alive longer than 30 seconds.


I like the new system, I think it encourages more teamwork (well if people care about their score).  Hopefully XP/Gold gets tied into this system and I guarantee you'll see a huge increase in teamwork (for infantry/melee).
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: oprah_winfrey on September 04, 2012, 06:50:06 pm
I would rather keep the current multiplier system with valor based on your score then switch to score based experience. The only thing I would like to see changed about the valor system is that it isn't as biased towards the winning team. It sucks when you do well on the team that is getting slaughtered but you don't get valor because the top guys on the oher team soaked up a whole bunch of points killing everyone.

What would be cool to see is the top 2-3 performers of each team get valor, assuming they get above the 20 point threshold and whatever other criteria must be met.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Heroin on September 10, 2012, 08:56:44 am
Was something changed in a recent patch with xbows? I left for about 10 days because of moving, and just came back. It feels like my crosshairs are bigger than normal.

Also, are we ever going to address all of the nerfs to agility builds made over the years that makes building STR characters superior in nearly every way?

Perhaps we could consider tweaking the encumbrance calculation to give athletics/weapon master a greater impact on the amount of gear they can wear without being encumbered.

Also, the new WPF calculation that was changed to is no longer necessary, imo. You've capped levels, and eliminated the WPF carry-over bonus from retirement long ago. I think we should go back to the old WPF costs. While we're at it, I don't feel like the game benefitted in any way from the nerf to athletics requiring a significant "wind-up" time before you can reach full speed. It doesn't make sense, and adds nothing to the game. Sprinters don't have a wind-up time to get to full speed.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: sjarken on October 14, 2012, 09:21:35 pm
chads says that siege tower is fixed in this patch......... Fail! its still bugged, tower and wheels are seperate. When is new patch coming? The amazing patch that was due to august, still w8ing for it  :wink:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Dooz on October 15, 2012, 12:25:31 am
chads says that siege tower is fixed in this patch......... Fail! its still bugged, tower and wheels are seperate. When is new patch coming? The amazing patch that was due to august, still w8ing for it  :wink:

Political attack ad of a new generation.
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Kafein on October 15, 2012, 12:47:53 am
Political attack ad of a new generation.

Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Troublion on October 17, 2012, 03:37:38 pm
Cool I look at it now
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aljo on October 19, 2012, 04:53:44 pm
If you're doing close to the most damage in a round for your team you have a good chance of getting valor.  It helps if you're fighting near teammates I believe (at least it appears that way), and if you are alive longer than 30 seconds.


I like the new system, I think it encourages more teamwork (well if people care about their score).  Hopefully XP/Gold gets tied into this system and I guarantee you'll see a huge increase in teamwork (for infantry/melee).

Valor doesn't really work if there is less than 15 peeps on the server as it is impossibru to get enought points of those few enemies.
The funniest thing about the idea behind the changing the system from the mass fight to multi/valor hoarder is that it didn't really help teamwork imho, and I played MUCHOS, believe me. Mass fights were at least lots of fun (I miss them  :cry: :cry:), and the fact is that no matter what devs do I don't think it is possible to improve the teamwork with changing xp/gold system, from this stage onward at least.

And I totally agree with implementing the exp/gold for each kill into this system, at the very least. valor is cool but is really rewarding only when in beast mode while, imo, it should rewarding the upper half of the scoreboard. Just brainstorming right now, so don't hate xD
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: AvengerC47 on October 19, 2012, 05:14:32 pm
Valor doesn't really work if there is less than 15 peeps on the server as it is impossibru to get enought points of those few enemies.

I made 31 points on one player once :x
had heavy horse and heavy armor
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Aljo on October 19, 2012, 06:45:54 pm
I made 31 points on one player once :x
had heavy horse and heavy armor

... and you will never see anyone with half a brain with that equip on a server with 15 people  :wink:
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: AvengerC47 on October 19, 2012, 06:51:02 pm
yeah, there was sth like 30 ppl there :(
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: justme on October 20, 2012, 06:55:46 pm
i got 15 weapon points and 1 skill point for free? wtf is going on?
Title: Re: 0.289 released
Post by: Gristle on October 21, 2012, 01:20:03 am
... and you will never see anyone with half a brain with that equip on a server with 15 people  :wink:

Dutchy is full plate riding on a plated charger all day every day. There could be 8 people on the server and he would still use that stuff.