cRPG

cRPG => Announcements => Topic started by: chadz on May 28, 2014, 03:53:27 pm

Title: 0.3.3.7
Post by: chadz on May 28, 2014, 03:53:27 pm
Fips: Fix for wrong map-names
Tydeus: Tweaked hand/wrist rotation in the onehanded right-to-left swing.
Urist: -temporary fix for the dagger quick draw weapon duplication bug
Urist: -fix for the siege beta flag reset bug
Urist: -disabling the low population timer reduction for siege beta
Fips: Old Siege maps updated
Tydeus: Slight tweak to weapon angle.
Tydeus: Slight speed increase for the 1h right to left swing.
Tydeus: MotF change for Tournament settings.
Harald: partial respec for cav: removes 3 str and all riding skill + decreases str-skills when necessary for all chars which have at least 1 riding.
Fips: Map updates, added Thranduils Training Dojo, Isle of Cray


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Barbed Arrows                                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Arrows                                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Barded Warhorse                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 128                           |
| body armor                                         | 32                             | 28                            |
| maneuver                                           | 41                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 24                             | 22                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Bastard Sword                                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 99                             | 98                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 28 pierce                      | 30 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Crowned Helm                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| name                                               |                                | Crowned Helm                  |
| gold                                               |                                | 0                             |
| difficulty                                         |                                | 0                             |
| weight                                             |                                | 2.5                           |
| head armor                                         |                                | 55                            |
| heirloom rank                                      |                                | 0                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Courser                                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 119                           |
| speed                                              | 46                             | 48                            |
| maneuver                                           | 41                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 15                             | 16                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Darts (Primary)                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 102                            | 108                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Donkey                                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 4467                           | 4471                          |
| hit points                                         | 80                             | 99                            |
| speed                                              | 24                             | 30                            |
| maneuver                                           | 27                             | 34                            |
| charge                                             | 5                              | 8                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Knives                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 104                            | 112                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heavy Great Sword (Primary)                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 7411                           | 9881                          |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Plated Charger                                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 65602                          | 60262                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 150                            | 141                           |
| body armor                                         | 70                             | 60                            |
| speed                                              | 36                             | 38                            |
| maneuver                                           | 37                             | 35                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Charger                                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 52512                          | 47279                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 136                           |
| body armor                                         | 58                             | 48                            |
| speed                                              | 38                             | 40                            |
| maneuver                                           | 38                             | 36                            |
| charge                                             | 38                             | 40                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Bastard Sword (Primary)                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 101                            | 100                           |
| thrust damage                                      | 21 pierce                      | 23 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Longsword (Primary)                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 99                             | 98                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heavy Bastard Sword (Primary)                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heavy Bastard Sword                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 98                             | 97                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Bodkin Arrows                                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heraldic Barded Warhorse                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 27871                          | 26469                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 128                           |
| body armor                                         | 32                             | 28                            |
| maneuver                                           | 41                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 24                             | 22                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Mamluk Horse                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 55323                          | 50033                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 140                            | 149                           |
| body armor                                         | 62                             | 54                            |
| speed                                              | 37                             | 38                            |
| charge                                             | 40                             | 36                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Stones (Primary)                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 95                             | 99                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Steppe Horse                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 85                             | 98                            |
| body armor                                         | 14                             | 12                            |
| maneuver                                           | 47                             | 48                            |
| charge                                             | 14                             | 11                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Eastern Warhorse                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 44711                          | 42488                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 110                            | 116                           |
| body armor                                         | 47                             | 40                            |
| speed                                              | 39                             | 38                            |
| charge                                             | 36                             | 30                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Katana                                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 18 pierce                      | 21 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 38 cut                         | 37 cut                        |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Sumpter Horse                                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 90                             | 110                           |
| speed                                              | 33                             | 37                            |
| maneuver                                           | 37                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 9                              | 11                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Two Handed Sword                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 29 pierce                      | 30 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Two Handed Sword (Primary)                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 22 pierce                      | 23 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Eastern Horse                                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 23981                          | 31720                         |
| difficulty                                         | 8                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 80                             | 111                           |
| body armor                                         | 6                              | 12                            |
| charge                                             | 11                             | 13                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Rouncey                                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 4                             |
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 118                           |
| body armor                                         | 16                             | 18                            |
| speed                                              | 41                             | 42                            |
| maneuver                                           | 41                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 12                             | 15                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Dadao                                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 8197                           | 8376                          |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Tatar Arrows                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Javelins (Primary)                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 120                            | 125                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Francisca (Primary)                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 120                            | 126                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Palfrey                                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 85                             | 108                           |
| body armor                                         | 12                             | 15                            |
| speed                                              | 44                             | 45                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Padded Warhorse                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 120                            | 131                           |
| body armor                                         | 34                             | 30                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heavy Throwing Axe (Primary)                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 136                            | 143                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Axe (Primary)                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 130                            | 137                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Daggers                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 111                            | 116                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heavy Great Sword                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 7411                           | 9881                          |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Spear (Primary)                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| accuracy                                           | 127                            | 132                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] 4-Point Shuriken                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 106                            | 114                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Lance                                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 102                            | 98                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 26 pierce                      | 25 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 16 blunt                       | 18 blunt                      |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Lance (Primary)                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 7                              | 6                             |
| weight                                             | 1.5                            | 4.5                           |
| accuracy                                           | 159                            | 152                           |
| max ammo                                           | 1                              | 3                             |
| thrust damage                                      | 60 pierce                      | 50 pierce                     |
| slots                                              | 1                              | 2                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Desert Horse                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 90                             | 102                           |
| body armor                                         | 10                             | 14                            |
| speed                                              | 39                             | 40                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Longsword                                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 97                             | 96                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] 6-Point Shuriken                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 107                            | 114                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Snowflake                                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 109                            | 115                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Destrier                                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 120                            | 135                           |
| body armor                                         | 25                             | 21                            |
| speed                                              | 42                             | 43                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Throwing Hammer (Primary)                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 120                            | 126                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Cataphract Horse                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 44711                          | 41152                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 120                            | 128                           |
| body armor                                         | 47                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 36                             | 33                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Large Warhorse                                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 136                           |
| body armor                                         | 43                             | 37                            |
| maneuver                                           | 41                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 34                             | 31                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] War Darts (Primary)                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 110                            | 115                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] War Horse                                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 120                            | 125                           |
| body armor                                         | 40                             | 34                            |
| charge                                             | 34                             | 28                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Arabian Warhorse                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 22004                          | 28582                         |
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 117                           |
| body armor                                         | 10                             | 14                            |
| speed                                              | 41                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 13                             | 12                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Throwing Knives                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 106                            | 114                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy War Darts (Primary)                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 112                            | 117                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Snowflake                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 111                            | 117                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy 6-Point Shuriken                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 109                            | 116                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Large Bag of Arrows                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Large Bag of Barbed Arrows                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Large Bag of Tatar Arrows                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Large Bag of Bodkin Arrows                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy 4-Point Shuriken                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 108                            | 116                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Throwing Spear (Primary)                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| accuracy                                           | 129                            | 134                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Stones (Primary)                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 97                             | 101                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Javelins (Primary)                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 122                            | 127                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Throwing Daggers                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 113                            | 118                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Throwing Hammer (Primary)                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 122                            | 128                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Throwing Lance                           | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 102                            | 98                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 28 pierce                      | 27 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 18 blunt                       | 20 blunt                      |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Throwing Lance (Primary)                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 7                              | 6                             |
| weight                                             | 1.5                            | 4.5                           |
| accuracy                                           | 161                            | 154                           |
| max ammo                                           | 1                              | 3                             |
| thrust damage                                      | 62 pierce                      | 52 pierce                     |
| slots                                              | 1                              | 2                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Heavy Darts (Primary)                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 104                            | 110                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Two Handed Sword                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 30 pierce                      | 31 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Rouncey                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 4                             |
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 123                           |
| body armor                                         | 16                             | 18                            |
| speed                                              | 42                             | 43                            |
| maneuver                                           | 42                             | 43                            |
| charge                                             | 13                             | 16                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Padded Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 125                            | 136                           |
| body armor                                         | 34                             | 30                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Palfrey                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 90                             | 113                           |
| body armor                                         | 12                             | 15                            |
| speed                                              | 45                             | 46                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Eastern Horse                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 35972                          | 47580                         |
| difficulty                                         | 8                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 85                             | 116                           |
| body armor                                         | 6                              | 12                            |
| charge                                             | 12                             | 14                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Eastern Warhorse                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 67067                          | 63732                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 115                            | 121                           |
| body armor                                         | 47                             | 40                            |
| speed                                              | 40                             | 39                            |
| charge                                             | 37                             | 31                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred War Horse                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 125                            | 130                           |
| body armor                                         | 40                             | 34                            |
| charge                                             | 35                             | 29                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Sumpter Horse                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 115                           |
| speed                                              | 34                             | 38                            |
| maneuver                                           | 38                             | 41                            |
| charge                                             | 10                             | 12                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Destrier                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 125                            | 140                           |
| body armor                                         | 25                             | 21                            |
| speed                                              | 43                             | 44                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Donkey                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 6701                           | 6707                          |
| hit points                                         | 85                             | 104                           |
| speed                                              | 25                             | 31                            |
| maneuver                                           | 28                             | 35                            |
| charge                                             | 6                              | 9                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Barded Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 133                           |
| body armor                                         | 32                             | 28                            |
| maneuver                                           | 42                             | 43                            |
| charge                                             | 25                             | 23                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Arabian Warhorse                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 33006                          | 42873                         |
| hit points                                         | 105                            | 122                           |
| body armor                                         | 10                             | 14                            |
| speed                                              | 42                             | 41                            |
| charge                                             | 14                             | 13                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Desert Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 107                           |
| body armor                                         | 10                             | 14                            |
| speed                                              | 40                             | 41                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Heraldic Barded Warhorse             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 41807                          | 39704                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 133                           |
| body armor                                         | 32                             | 28                            |
| maneuver                                           | 42                             | 43                            |
| charge                                             | 25                             | 23                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Charger                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 78768                          | 70919                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 141                           |
| body armor                                         | 58                             | 48                            |
| speed                                              | 39                             | 41                            |
| maneuver                                           | 39                             | 37                            |
| charge                                             | 39                             | 41                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Courser                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 105                            | 124                           |
| speed                                              | 47                             | 49                            |
| maneuver                                           | 42                             | 41                            |
| charge                                             | 16                             | 17                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Plated Charger                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 98403                          | 90393                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 155                            | 146                           |
| body armor                                         | 70                             | 60                            |
| speed                                              | 37                             | 39                            |
| maneuver                                           | 38                             | 36                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Large Warhorse                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 141                           |
| body armor                                         | 43                             | 37                            |
| maneuver                                           | 42                             | 41                            |
| charge                                             | 35                             | 32                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Steppe Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 90                             | 103                           |
| body armor                                         | 14                             | 12                            |
| maneuver                                           | 48                             | 49                            |
| charge                                             | 15                             | 12                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Mamluk Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 82985                          | 75050                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 145                            | 154                           |
| body armor                                         | 62                             | 54                            |
| speed                                              | 38                             | 39                            |
| charge                                             | 41                             | 37                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Heavy Great Sword (Primary)           | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 11117                          | 14822                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Heavy Great Sword                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 11117                          | 14822                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Heavy Bastard Sword (Primary)         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 101                            | 100                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Bastard Sword                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 29 pierce                      | 31 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Longsword (Primary)                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Longsword                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 98                             | 97                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Bastard Sword (Primary)               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 102                            | 101                           |
| thrust damage                                      | 22 pierce                      | 24 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Dadao                                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 12296                          | 12564                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Heavy Bastard Sword                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 99                             | 98                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Well Bred Cataphract Horse                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 67067                          | 61728                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 125                            | 133                           |
| body armor                                         | 47                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 37                             | 34                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Strong Heavy Throwing Axe (Primary)            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 138                            | 145                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Strong Throwing Axe (Primary)                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 132                            | 139                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Thick Crowned Helm                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| name                                               |                                | Thick Crowned Helm            |
| gold                                               |                                | 0                             |
| difficulty                                         |                                | 0                             |
| weight                                             |                                | 2.5                           |
| head armor                                         |                                | 57                            |
| heirloom rank                                      |                                | 1                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Strong Francisca (Primary)                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 122                            | 128                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Katana                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 19 pierce                      | 22 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 39 cut                         | 38 cut                        |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [1] Tempered Two Handed Sword (Primary)            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 23 pierce                      | 24 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Axe (Primary)                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 134                            | 141                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Heavy Throwing Axe (Primary)          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 140                            | 147                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Reinforced Crowned Helm                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| name                                               |                                | Reinforced Crowned Helm       |
| gold                                               |                                | 0                             |
| difficulty                                         |                                | 0                             |
| weight                                             |                                | 2.5                           |
| head armor                                         |                                | 59                            |
| heirloom rank                                      |                                | 2                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Francisca (Primary)                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 124                            | 130                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Sharp Arrows                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Sharp Bodkin Arrows                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Sharp Barbed Arrows                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Sharp Tatar Arrows                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Two Handed Sword (Primary)            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 23 pierce                      | 24 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword (Primary)         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 101                            | 100                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 99                             | 98                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Darts (Primary)                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 106                            | 112                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Bastard Sword                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 30 pierce                      | 32 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Bastard Sword (Primary)               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 102                            | 101                           |
| thrust damage                                      | 22 pierce                      | 24 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Cataphract Horse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 80480                          | 74074                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 138                           |
| body armor                                         | 49                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 38                             | 35                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Longsword (Primary)                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Longsword                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 98                             | 97                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Heavy Great Sword (Primary)           | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 13340                          | 17786                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Javelins (Primary)                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 124                            | 129                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Hammer (Primary)             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 124                            | 130                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Knives                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 108                            | 116                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Lance (Primary)              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 7                              | 6                             |
| weight                                             | 1.5                            | 4.5                           |
| accuracy                                           | 163                            | 156                           |
| max ammo                                           | 1                              | 3                             |
| thrust damage                                      | 63 pierce                      | 53 pierce                     |
| slots                                              | 1                              | 2                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Daggers                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 115                            | 120                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Two Handed Sword                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 31 pierce                      | 32 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Dadao                                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 14755                          | 15077                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Stones (Primary)                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 99                             | 103                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Katana                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 19 pierce                      | 22 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 40 cut                         | 39 cut                        |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Mamluk Horse                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 99581                          | 90059                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 150                            | 159                           |
| body armor                                         | 64                             | 56                            |
| speed                                              | 38                             | 39                            |
| charge                                             | 42                             | 38                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Large Warhorse                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 140                            | 146                           |
| body armor                                         | 45                             | 39                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 36                             | 33                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Plated Charger                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 118084                         | 108472                        |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 160                            | 151                           |
| body armor                                         | 72                             | 62                            |
| speed                                              | 37                             | 39                            |
| maneuver                                           | 39                             | 37                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Courser                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 110                            | 129                           |
| speed                                              | 47                             | 49                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 17                             | 18                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Donkey                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 8041                           | 8048                          |
| hit points                                         | 90                             | 109                           |
| speed                                              | 25                             | 31                            |
| maneuver                                           | 29                             | 36                            |
| charge                                             | 7                              | 10                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Charger                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 94522                          | 85102                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 140                            | 146                           |
| body armor                                         | 60                             | 50                            |
| speed                                              | 39                             | 41                            |
| maneuver                                           | 40                             | 38                            |
| charge                                             | 40                             | 42                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Heraldic Barded Warhorse              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 50168                          | 47644                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 140                            | 138                           |
| body armor                                         | 34                             | 30                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 26                             | 24                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Desert Horse                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 112                           |
| body armor                                         | 12                             | 16                            |
| speed                                              | 40                             | 41                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Arabian Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 39607                          | 51448                         |
| hit points                                         | 110                            | 127                           |
| body armor                                         | 12                             | 16                            |
| speed                                              | 42                             | 41                            |
| charge                                             | 15                             | 14                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Barded Warhorse                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 140                            | 138                           |
| body armor                                         | 34                             | 30                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 26                             | 24                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Destrier                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 145                           |
| body armor                                         | 27                             | 23                            |
| speed                                              | 43                             | 44                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Palfrey                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 118                           |
| body armor                                         | 14                             | 17                            |
| speed                                              | 45                             | 46                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Steppe Horse                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 108                           |
| body armor                                         | 16                             | 14                            |
| maneuver                                           | 49                             | 50                            |
| charge                                             | 16                             | 13                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Sumpter Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 120                           |
| speed                                              | 34                             | 38                            |
| maneuver                                           | 39                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 11                             | 13                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited War Horse                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 135                           |
| body armor                                         | 42                             | 36                            |
| charge                                             | 36                             | 30                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Eastern Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 80480                          | 76478                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 120                            | 126                           |
| body armor                                         | 49                             | 42                            |
| speed                                              | 40                             | 39                            |
| charge                                             | 38                             | 32                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Eastern Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 43166                          | 57096                         |
| difficulty                                         | 8                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 90                             | 121                           |
| body armor                                         | 8                              | 14                            |
| charge                                             | 13                             | 15                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Padded Warhorse                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 130                            | 141                           |
| body armor                                         | 36                             | 32                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Spirited Rouncey                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 4                             |
| hit points                                         | 105                            | 128                           |
| body armor                                         | 18                             | 20                            |
| speed                                              | 42                             | 43                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 14                             | 17                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Lance                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 103                            | 99                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 29 pierce                      | 28 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 19 blunt                       | 21 blunt                      |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Heavy Great Sword                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 13340                          | 17786                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Throwing Spear (Primary)              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| accuracy                                           | 131                            | 136                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced War Darts (Primary)                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 114                            | 119                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced Snowflake                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 113                            | 119                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced 4-Point Shuriken                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 110                            | 118                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [2] Balanced 6-Point Shuriken                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 111                            | 118                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Large Warhorse                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 145                            | 151                           |
| body armor                                         | 47                             | 41                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 38                             | 35                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Mamluk Horse                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 132775                         | 120079                        |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 155                            | 164                           |
| body armor                                         | 66                             | 58                            |
| speed                                              | 39                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 44                             | 40                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion War Horse                             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 140                           |
| body armor                                         | 44                             | 38                            |
| charge                                             | 38                             | 32                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Steppe Horse                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 113                           |
| body armor                                         | 18                             | 16                            |
| maneuver                                           | 49                             | 50                            |
| charge                                             | 18                             | 15                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Cataphract Horse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 107306                         | 98765                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 143                           |
| body armor                                         | 51                             | 46                            |
| charge                                             | 40                             | 37                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Sumpter Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 105                            | 125                           |
| speed                                              | 35                             | 39                            |
| maneuver                                           | 39                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 13                             | 15                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork 4-Point Shuriken                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 111                            | 119                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Snowflake                           | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 114                            | 120                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork 6-Point Shuriken                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 112                            | 119                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Eastern Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 107306                         | 101971                        |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 125                            | 131                           |
| body armor                                         | 51                             | 44                            |
| speed                                              | 41                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 40                             | 34                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Spear (Primary)            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| accuracy                                           | 132                            | 137                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Lance                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 103                            | 99                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 30 pierce                      | 29 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 20 blunt                       | 22 blunt                      |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Padded Warhorse                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 146                           |
| body armor                                         | 38                             | 34                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Heraldic Barded Warhorse              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 66890                          | 63526                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 145                            | 143                           |
| body armor                                         | 36                             | 32                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 28                             | 26                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Charger                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 126029                         | 113470                        |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 145                            | 151                           |
| body armor                                         | 62                             | 52                            |
| speed                                              | 40                             | 42                            |
| maneuver                                           | 40                             | 38                            |
| charge                                             | 42                             | 44                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Barded Warhorse                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 145                            | 143                           |
| body armor                                         | 36                             | 32                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 28                             | 26                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Arabian Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 52810                          | 68597                         |
| hit points                                         | 115                            | 132                           |
| body armor                                         | 14                             | 18                            |
| speed                                              | 43                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 17                             | 16                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Desert Horse                          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 6                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 105                            | 117                           |
| body armor                                         | 14                             | 18                            |
| speed                                              | 41                             | 42                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Plated Charger                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 157445                         | 144629                        |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 165                            | 156                           |
| body armor                                         | 74                             | 64                            |
| speed                                              | 38                             | 40                            |
| maneuver                                           | 39                             | 37                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Courser                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| hit points                                         | 115                            | 134                           |
| speed                                              | 48                             | 50                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 42                            |
| charge                                             | 19                             | 20                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork War Darts (Primary)                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 115                            | 120                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Rouncey                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 4                             |
| hit points                                         | 110                            | 133                           |
| body armor                                         | 20                             | 22                            |
| speed                                              | 43                             | 44                            |
| maneuver                                           | 43                             | 44                            |
| charge                                             | 16                             | 19                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Palfrey                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 3                              | 5                             |
| hit points                                         | 100                            | 123                           |
| body armor                                         | 16                             | 19                            |
| speed                                              | 46                             | 47                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Destrier                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 150                           |
| body armor                                         | 29                             | 25                            |
| speed                                              | 44                             | 45                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Donkey                                | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 10721                          | 10730                         |
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 114                           |
| speed                                              | 26                             | 32                            |
| maneuver                                           | 29                             | 36                            |
| charge                                             | 9                              | 12                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Eastern Horse                         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 57554                          | 76128                         |
| difficulty                                         | 8                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 95                             | 126                           |
| body armor                                         | 10                             | 16                            |
| charge                                             | 15                             | 17                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Arrows                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Katana                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 20 pierce                      | 23 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 41 cut                         | 40 cut                        |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Two Handed Sword (Primary)          | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 24 pierce                      | 25 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Dadao                               | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 17214                          | 17590                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Heavy Great Sword                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 15563                          | 20750                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Heavy Great Sword (Primary)         | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 15563                          | 20750                         |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Two Handed Sword                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 31 pierce                      | 32 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Javelins (Primary)                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 125                            | 130                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Francisca (Primary)                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 125                            | 131                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Heavy Throwing Axe (Primary)        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 141                            | 148                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Axe (Primary)              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 135                            | 142                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Darts (Primary)                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 107                            | 113                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Lance (Primary)            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 7                              | 6                             |
| weight                                             | 1.5                            | 4.5                           |
| accuracy                                           | 164                            | 157                           |
| max ammo                                           | 1                              | 3                             |
| thrust damage                                      | 64 pierce                      | 54 pierce                     |
| slots                                              | 1                              | 2                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Heavy Bastard Sword                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 99                             | 98                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Heavy Bastard Sword (Primary)       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 101                            | 100                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Bodkin Arrows                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Tatar Arrows                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Barbed Arrows                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| weight                                             | 8                              | 7                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Daggers                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 116                            | 121                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Hammer (Primary)           | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 125                            | 131                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Stones (Primary)                    | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 100                            | 104                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Lordly Crowned Helm                            | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| name                                               |                                | Lordly Crowned Helm           |
| gold                                               |                                | 0                             |
| difficulty                                         |                                | 0                             |
| weight                                             |                                | 2.5                           |
| head armor                                         |                                | 60                            |
| heirloom rank                                      |                                | 3                             |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Bastard Sword                       | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
| thrust damage                                      | 30 pierce                      | 32 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Bastard Sword (Primary)             | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 102                            | 101                           |
| thrust damage                                      | 23 pierce                      | 25 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Longsword                           | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 98                             | 97                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Longsword (Primary)                 | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Masterwork Throwing Knives                     | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| accuracy                                           | 109                            | 117                           |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: [ptx] on May 28, 2014, 03:53:57 pm
First.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thranduil on May 28, 2014, 03:54:15 pm
woohoo! (2nd)


***
Ironically, I borked the build on one of my alts and just put the extra skill points into riding. Now I got a partial respec and can fix my build! YAY!

EDIT***
I wanted to apologize about a feature that was expected in my training dojo. It seems that even though I can place construction sites and material storage sites in the map, they do not actually show up, so you still have to buy and bring your own construction sites and material. Again, sorry for that.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: karasu on May 28, 2014, 03:56:00 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Algarn on May 28, 2014, 03:56:47 pm
Throwing lance got damage nerfed ...  Wait, 3 ammo ?...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 28, 2014, 03:58:16 pm
Throwing lance is 2 slots, 3 ammo now.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Algarn on May 28, 2014, 04:01:45 pm
Just saw it, my bad...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: protox2k on May 28, 2014, 04:02:42 pm
so 6 throwing lances thats insane!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Alienfreak on May 28, 2014, 04:02:56 pm
Donkey buff!

FINALLY!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 04:09:29 pm
TYDEUS FUCKING STOP
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Blackbow on May 28, 2014, 04:10:48 pm
quivers weight 7 : imo it's perfect like this not too heavy not too light

nerf cavs : imo change requierment is maybe not the good way to nerf them , hx will be the only able to use heavy tanky horses ...
                  nerf their armor and hp would be better than increase some much requierment

buff thrower : wtf be rdy to see tons of gay agi thrower with a crazy accuracy and 8 ath ... they was already too accurate for me ...
                       and that's dont fix the low difference of damage between a thrower with 5 pt and 10 pt (like 10% or 15% dmg difference)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 28, 2014, 04:11:16 pm
Damn nice patch. A little throwing rebalance, heavy nerf to heavy cav ( :mrgreen:).
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: darmaster on May 28, 2014, 04:11:55 pm
noice finally people will realize the master race of black horses. happy with everything gj
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Matze on May 28, 2014, 04:15:16 pm
wtf can you also reset the ha skill points?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tindel on May 28, 2014, 04:15:32 pm
"Fips: Old Siege maps updated"

This is makes me sweat,  FIPS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE NOW?!!?!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: ARN_ on May 28, 2014, 04:15:54 pm
Oh yea buff archers and HA and nerf heavy cav great thinking boys!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 28, 2014, 04:16:05 pm
Huge indirect buff to horse archers. What could go wrong here? :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: polkafranzi on May 28, 2014, 04:16:32 pm
Harald: partial respec for cav: removes 3 str and all riding skill + decreases str-skills when necessary for all chars which have at least 1 riding.

6 would have been fairer imo
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 04:16:42 pm
wtf can you also reset the ha skill points?

No, that would have involved Tydeus thinking before acting, and that isn't gonna happen.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Fips on May 28, 2014, 04:18:14 pm
"Fips: Old Siege maps updated"

This is makes me sweat,  FIPS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE NOW?!!?!


BALLISTAS.


EVERYWHERE.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Matze on May 28, 2014, 04:19:40 pm
so now pls tell me what should i do on my lvl 36 char 4 points on ha and i cant use good horses i need the reset from ha skills
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Strudog on May 28, 2014, 04:21:41 pm
still waiting upon 1h cav nerf
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Matze on May 28, 2014, 04:21:52 pm
give me the  reset and you get 1 ha will go
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on May 28, 2014, 04:22:30 pm
so now pls tell me what should i do on my lvl 36 char 4 points on ha and i cant use good horses i need the reset from ha skills
devs give no flying shit about high lvl players


and tydeus i had no idea that there was a way to fuck plated charger even more


aahhh and gg agi master race


I higly sugest to increas str dif on weapons and armours and add str req for shields
nowdays there is no reason for str bulid at all.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 04:22:34 pm
Worst update ever gg crpg devs for killing the mod
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: the real god emperor on May 28, 2014, 04:22:48 pm
[0] Mamluk Horse                                   | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 55323                          | 50033                         |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 8                             |
| hit points                                         | 140                            | 149                           |
| body armor                                         | 62                             | 54                            |
| speed                                              | 37                             | 38                            |
| charge                                             | 40                             | 36                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|______________________________

death to grellenort! :D

TY!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 28, 2014, 04:23:45 pm
I appreciate the difficulty overhaul of horses (armors next pls?)



I just play-tested with my champion large warhorse, and it couldnt gallop (max was trotting animation) and is one-shotted at the slightest attack. Bug?
It works.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: cxalc on May 28, 2014, 04:24:34 pm
wat ????
poor cavalry !!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Blackbow on May 28, 2014, 04:24:53 pm
put cudgel 0 slot plz !!!

about crowned helmet the stats look a bit too op and it's not yet in shop

mw crowned helmet 60 armor for only 2.5 weight oO
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 04:25:26 pm
so now pls tell me what should i do on my lvl 36 char 4 points on ha and i cant use good horses i need the reset from ha skills

You get fucked. Just like everyone does sooner or later by Tydeus and his drug-addled brain.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: tkn123 on May 28, 2014, 04:27:25 pm
Whats with the difficulty increase of horses?

You could of increased the price not get rid of them from the game...

Best horse now is donkey.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Eiszeitwasser on May 28, 2014, 04:27:58 pm
Is this normal that i dont get respected?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Strudog on May 28, 2014, 04:28:29 pm
put cudgel 0 slot plz !!!

about crowned helmet the stats look a bit too op and it's not yet in shop

mw crowned helmet 60 armor for only 2.5 weight oO

Crowned helmet will be for tournament prize only
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Molly on May 28, 2014, 04:30:35 pm
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
|
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 18 pierce                      | 21 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 38 cut                         | 37 cut                        |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|

\o/

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 04:31:39 pm
I just don't get it Number 1 problem with CRPG and always has been is range and the one way to counter them is with heavy cav so the devs been the genius they are deicide to nerf heavy cav and buff HA and Throwing and Archery, Good job dev team you really make us proud cant wait for banner lords now (don't see point in supporting Melee Battlegrounds if dev going to be like this in that game).  :mad:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Matze on May 28, 2014, 04:31:47 pm
but its also for every other ha that play you should really reset this points
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Patoson on May 28, 2014, 04:31:52 pm
Yay for fixing map names. Good work!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Blackbow on May 28, 2014, 04:32:26 pm
TO ALL GAY CAVS !!!

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 28, 2014, 04:37:40 pm
I believe that event items can't get loomed. Cav changes I tweaked from another proposal that was somewhat confusing. Obsession with Tydeus is odd, he nerfed the longsword. Ranged deal as much damage as they did to heavy cav before before the armor soak change, and most experienced HP increases.


Throwing accuracy changes. Keep in mind that a change of 30 is barely half a cm. If a throwing weapon is to get nerfed, I'd rather change the rate of fire or the missile speed.
Final reticule sizes:
Stones: 121.5->94.7
4-point shuriken: 183.8->130.2
6-point shuriken: 185.1->138.2
snowflakes: 187.7-> 147.5
throwing knives: 189.3->135.6
throwing daggers: 190.3->156.8
darts: 202.6->162.4
war darts: 205->171.5
francisca: 210->169.8
throwing axe: 247->200.1
javelin: 258->224.5
throwing hammer: 266->225.8
jarid: 274.9 -> 276.2
heavy throwing axe: 286.8->239.9
throwing spears: 331.1->257.6
throwing lance: 364.7->284.9

Of course, most changes experience changes from input by multiple sources. Was going to make the throwing lance's reticule size 330 and scale down from there, and cav requirements were made more lenient.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: tkn123 on May 28, 2014, 04:40:21 pm
Cav need a 6 str decrease - 3 str isn't enough after destroying our builds.
As this is only fair after adding 3 more difficulty to plated charger etc... as now I can't use my +3 plated charger  :cry:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlueKnight on May 28, 2014, 04:43:25 pm
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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Porthos on May 28, 2014, 04:48:32 pm
 :?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: McKli_PL on May 28, 2014, 04:52:17 pm
Im cav lancer and this patch its just f*** great!! :mrgreen: srsly no nabs on plated horses (r5+forcefield shield+acs ghost range) real cav still be real abusers will just respect:) n1 devs and admins
(just waiting for armor req depending on str will be great! no agi nabs with plate)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: HarunYahya on May 28, 2014, 05:00:13 pm
Awesome patch !
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rico on May 28, 2014, 05:00:20 pm
I just don't get it Number 1 problem with CRPG and always has been is range and the one way to counter them is with heavy cav so the devs been the genius they are deicide to nerf heavy cav and buff HA and Throwing and Archery, Good job dev team you really make us proud cant wait for banner lords now (don't see point in supporting Melee Battlegrounds if dev going to be like this in that game).  :mad:
The Nomad and Tatar Bow have high accuracy and missile speed since some patches ago. Archers can now decide to shoot other ranged players instead of infantry and cavalry by using Nomad or Tatar Bow instead of Rus Bow or Long Bow. Ranged has a good internal balance and is capable of countering itself. Many ranged players rationally abstain from Rus and Long Bow in favor of the low-tier bows to counter other archers, and in total, there is less arrows hitting melee players.

Arabian War Unicorns, Plated Chargers and Mamluk Horses used to be the invincible master race on EU1. Now they were balanced, and I think it's fair. Arabian War Unicorns will still be easimode, but it is at least better than before and the Plated Charger madness stops.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: matt2507 on May 28, 2014, 05:01:10 pm
Cool, now my arabian go slower than most heavy horses. In addition, the requirement has increased for heavy cavs so, they will go faster and be more agile than expected.
Explain me how an armored horse can go faster than an Arabian horse ?
I'm going at the same speed as the charger...
And rouncey goes faster ???

And plus I got 2000 repair now...



WTF ?

Most stupid cav patch ever...


NO MORE NA ITEMS BALANCERS PLEASE !

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 28, 2014, 05:02:59 pm
I knew I shouldn't have bump slashed tydeus so many times last night.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 05:05:17 pm
Obsession with Tydeus is odd, he nerfed the longsword.

Never seen the longsword as the problem everyone claimed, the curved 2handers have always been superior. Now they are, but more so. 1h rightswing was invisible to many with a 1h with 100+ speed, now it's faster, seems legit.

Its the purely random element to the changes that irritate me. The last true nerf I took was when Tydeus removed overhead from my fighting axe (well, if your target is standing completely still you can still sometimes hit them), but I hadn't realised that what the issue is:

Problem is players. They are shit. If you they would just learn to fucking play and stop crying like 22yr old virgins, we would still have boulders on sticks, archers pulling poleaxes from their buttholes and fighting rather than running off, and lancers dominating the field. Instead we have an army of clones in kuyaks, a horde of 1hcav, and for some reason rolling a HA or HX still does get you an instant permanban, WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. Fuck my life.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 05:06:44 pm


NO MORE NA ITEMS BALANCERS PLEASE !



This tbh
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 05:09:24 pm
Im asking myself is it time to leave, why wait for melee battlegrounds if this same shit is going to happen everytime. I just don't get it buff range then they nerf range then they buff range and all this time people are blind to see they are nerfing other classes all the time without ever rebuffing it. this year 2h has been hit harder than any other class with the strength nerf and then with prices and now with buffing range its just making it harder to play.

New game needs a name change from Melee Battlegrounds to Range Battlegrounds #GOTTEM!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: karasu on May 28, 2014, 05:12:52 pm
Im asking myself is it time to leave, why wait for melee battlegrounds if this same shit is going to happen everytime. I just don't get it buff range then they nerf range then they buff range and all this time people are blind to see they are nerfing other classes all the time without ever rebuffing it. this year 2h has been hit harder than any other class with the strength nerf and then with prices and now with buffing range its just making it harder to play.

You can always make your own game with your own rules and mechanics. Otherwise bring always some extra lube with you, so you won't be caught unprepared.  :lol: (I do.)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 05:13:59 pm
Yet playing 2h is still the easiest way to play. Untill they nerf speed by 10 points on the curved weapons, across all classes, the game is gonna be a pisstake anyway. Weapons with huge heads need a speed nerf too, especially the poles. I'm out for a while, maybe some sense and a regime change is what is needed, cause current balance team have to put their toothbrush up their buttholes to clean their teeth.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on May 28, 2014, 05:15:53 pm
Two Handed Sword
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:12 strength
Weight:2.2
Slots:2
Upkeep:557 gold
Shop price:7,965 gold
Value:3,983 gold
Speed:97
Length:110
Thrust:23 pierce
Swing:38 cut



Longsword
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 37 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode


GG nerf one weapon and overbuff other
internal 2h balance meake no fuking sens nowdays
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 05:16:21 pm
You can always make your own game with your own rules and mechanics. Otherwise bring always some extra lube with you, so you won't be caught unprepared.  :lol: (I do.)
haha yea to be fair I am used to getting fucked by the devs  :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 28, 2014, 05:19:40 pm
BlindGuy, the way you express your sentiments, calls for your opinion to be ignored, whether valid or not.
Less general personal attacks, more constructive argumentation!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Reyiz on May 28, 2014, 05:21:49 pm
8 riding for a mamluk horse  :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: wtf man  :!: :!: :!:  give cavs a full respec  :!: i want to play as a thrower now  :evil:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Falka on May 28, 2014, 05:22:55 pm
1h rightswing was invisible to many with a 1h with 100+ speed,

 :lol: you're Blind guy so no wonder it's invisible for you, for everyone who's not blind it shouldn't be. Don't play and don't care, but nerf for heavy cav was well deserved.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: NejStark on May 28, 2014, 05:23:08 pm
8 riding for a mamluk horse  :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: wtf man  :!: :!: :!:  give cavs a full respec  :!: i want to play as a thrower now  :evil:

Yeah, I'm not a very dramatic person, but I'd like to make my main inf for a gen til I see whats what (quite enjoy 1h cav but don't enjoy 1h inf).
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Bronto on May 28, 2014, 05:46:37 pm
So I was 18/18 calvary, 5 riding, 3 IF, 3 Shield, 6 PS, 6 ath and 6 WM. With the free partial respec it dropped me to 15/18 but guess what. I still only had 6 points to put into my build so even though I could change to 15/21 I could still only do 6 riding max which totally borked my build and ruined my immersion. Now I'm an 18/18 hoplite build because I can't ride any of the horses I owned.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 28, 2014, 05:48:25 pm
Shouldn't it have been 7 points because -6 for riding and -1 from PS?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on May 28, 2014, 05:51:16 pm
One might want to think about the logic of nerfing light horses.

I mean it's not like the only horses that could survive more than 10 seconds of battle were the heavy ones.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 28, 2014, 05:52:47 pm
With the buffed HP/armor (except a few ones), almost all horses can survive a pretty tough beating.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: matt2507 on May 28, 2014, 05:59:02 pm
Best suited facepalm, feel free to use it.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 28, 2014, 06:10:03 pm
Can't respec from the regular 1H cav build most people use on EU1. I was 24/15 and now I can go 21/21, with 6 riding. Well good thing I have only 69Mxp for the next level on my cav. My lvl32 18/24 HA can no longer use his horse or the bow, I have to choose between those. Thank god I only have 10.5Mxp for the next level. My Thrower just lost his ability to ride any decent horses. Thankfully I only need 19Mxp for the next level to ride a non-loomed horse and around 60Mxp to ride my loomed one. Someone please donate me 100Mxp or maybe a better respec so I can actually keep playing my characters :)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Matze on May 28, 2014, 06:14:04 pm
yeah right give the ha a better respec.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Man of Steel on May 28, 2014, 06:14:23 pm
PLS FIX PELT HOOD  :oops:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 28, 2014, 06:16:36 pm
Like most cav before me that posted, the respec seems to not be large enough; I think it should be increased so that one can adapt to the patch in 99% circumstances.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to profit from this patch to give full respec (to riders only, or to all  :P)


I'm a lucky one, I had 1 point of attribute waiting for me so I managed to convert my build so it stays useful, but its not the case for everyone like Mr K post shows  :?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 28, 2014, 06:17:49 pm
As a person who won't go for 24 agility, can someone buy my Mamluk Horse? :D

Edit : Even if i wanted to go for 24 agility that would end up me having 17 STR as level 34.

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Blackbow on May 28, 2014, 06:25:03 pm
Like most cav before me that posted, the respec seems to not be large enough; I think it should be increased so that one can adapt to the patch in 99% circumstances.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to profit from this patch to give full respec (to riders only, or to all  :P)


I'm a lucky one, I had 1 point of attribute waiting for me so I managed to convert my build so it stays useful, but its not the case for everyone like Mr K post shows  :?

in all archers nerf we never get any respec or point to replace so do like me respec as 35 and cry
btw 1h/2h cavs can still one shot everything
courser is now op as fuck and be rdy to see tons of agi rider on courser with lance couch ...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Matze on May 28, 2014, 06:28:07 pm
Like most cav before me that posted, the respec seems to not be large enough; I think it should be increased so that one can adapt to the patch in 99% circumstances.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to profit from this patch to give full respec (to riders only, or to all  :P)


I'm a lucky one, I had 1 point of attribute waiting for me so I managed to convert my build so it stays useful, but its not the case for everyone like Mr K post shows  :?


What is with me butan? my old build was 18/24 and i skill on ha becouse of fun. now they reset the ridding skills. and i can know choose about full ha with 5 pd what i dont like becouse i like to play archer more. or to get 6 pd with 5 riding but then i cant ride any good horses. or i go fuel archer with lot of ps and if but then i have 4 ha skill points that i dont need!!!!!!! i dont hit lvl 36 to have 4 usless skillpoints
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tom Cruise on May 28, 2014, 06:29:19 pm
You fucking blood clots....buffed throwing accuracy...and gave them more throwing lances?

ruined my immersion.


|
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| thrust damage                                      | 18 pierce                      | 21 pierce                     |
| swing damage                                       | 38 cut                         | 37 cut                        |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|

How do you even have the gall to touch my 1000x folded Hattori Hanzo steel. No need to reduce the cut because thats the whole point of the weapon, it cuts....really well. The stab increase? Yay? I never use the stab because the weapon is shorter and weaker than my confidence when talking to an average looking girl.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: MURDERTRON on May 28, 2014, 06:32:14 pm
I, for one, am glad some of these changes were made.  I once played a gen of 27/15 2h cav and it was the most absurd thing ever.  However, if you change the requirements of a horse by 3 riding, you should grant a 9 str respec.  I'm not a fan of the nerfs and price increases to heavy horses, though.  Don't you think the riding requirement change was enough?  So now we're going to have even less durable riders on less durable horses.  I don't think many were complaining about the riders dying and the horses not.

Unfortunately this patch doesn't really reduce the effectiveness of horse archers. Sure, they'll have to wait til level 32 to ride a charger now, but I don't think any do.  It's generally Arabians and warhorses.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Novamere on May 28, 2014, 06:33:56 pm
Rouncey 4 riding now really? Like Tydeus said they will keep nerfing and killing the mod till M:BG  :evil: :evil: :evil:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 28, 2014, 06:34:24 pm
so what are people like me supposed to do now? i had 24 15 and plated charger, there is no way i will be able to ride my horse again. If there is no free respec than there is no way i will keep playing. I have mw plated charger which i cant use and nobody will buy any heavy horse now untill you unfuck this stupid patch.to be honest i have nop idea why would you even fuck heavy cav so much?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 28, 2014, 06:35:26 pm
PLS FIX PELT HOOD  :oops:
Figured out the issue... Finally.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 28, 2014, 06:43:23 pm
so what are people like me supposed to do now? i had 24 15 and plated charger, there is no way i will be able to ride my horse again. If there is no free respec than there is no way i will keep playing. I have mw plated charger which i cant use and nobody will buy any heavy horse now untill you unfuck this stupid patch.to be honest i have nop idea why would you even fuck heavy cav so much?

Pretty much this.


I have both Mamluk Horse and Arabian Warhorse but since you released such a patch, i will have to go with 15 STR only if i want to use Mamluk Horse which is bullshit. And since i will not go for 24 agility, my Mamluk Horse is completely useless and no one will ever buy it.

I don't know why did you nerf heavy cav this much, people who play smart were already able to stand against heavy cavalry.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: IG_Saint on May 28, 2014, 06:45:58 pm
Rather strange changes to the throwing lance, imo. After playing a bit on siege my conclusion is:

melee:
Slight nerf, but really not much has changed, it's still a decent melee weapon, just not as blindingly fast. The 2 points of damage buff on the swings helps against glancing, the one weakness the old version had. Still for loosing 4 points of speed and 1 point of pierce, I would have expected more than just the 2 points of blunt. I didn't really notice the extra weight, myself, but I wear an unusual amount of armour for a throwing lancer anyway.

Ranged:
Big buff, not much has changed, except you have 2 more ammo and you're far more accurate. You don't one hit anything but peasants and archers, which is the same as pre patch. Still a throwing lance to the chest and a swing from a nearby friendlies big weapon is still often enough to put down a medium armoured enemy (again, the same as prepatch).

Pre-patch the throwing lance was (imo) nicely balanced, both modes were decent, but neither was very strong. A lancer trying to melee a dedicated melee build would lose, just like a lancer trying to out throw a dedicated thrower or archer would lose. It was only when you used both side to good effect (especially near teammates), that the build would fully come into it's own.

Post-patch the ranged side of the lance is noticeably stronger, while the melee side only received a slight nerf. The slot change was also an odd choice of buff, compiling on top of the already strange changes made to the weapon, since now you can have 6 lances and a 0 slot sidearm. So the throwing lance has really received an unneeded buff.

My recommendation as someone who has played a dedicated throwing lancer for 3 years or so: Revert the slot change, revert the ammo change, weight change I'm ambivalent about as long as it's adjusted to ammo count, keep the accuracy change (maybe a bit less accuracy than it has currently) and give back, say, 3 or 4 points of ranged damage, keep the melee changes, except give 1 more point of damage for blunt of pierce.

Small side note: as I was on siege, I didn't get to test the lances vs cavalry. Maybe the damage nerf makes a bigger difference against cavalry than it does against infantry. Still, I don't expect any sane cavalry to try and charge a lancer head on.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 28, 2014, 06:48:50 pm
great, crpg devs have finally nerfed the most OP thing in crpg, heavy horses

cue all of the 5 riding skill 9 powerstrike 2h cav crying that their super god mode invicible horses of death are no longer a viable option for a strength build, and they must now use a reasonable horse that's possible to kill

great patch devs, 10/10 :)

edit: for all those people crying, take cicero as an example, i once reared him with 7 powerstrike and 140 wpf pole, +3 red tassel, 6 times in a single round, with allies all around, and his horse still survived, with him getting 10+ kills, taking every chance possible because he knows his horse cannot die.

it was the same for all heavy cav. invincible horses were lame as fuck, and it's nice that you will finally have to use reasonable mid-tier horses unless you are more specialised. you heavy cav guys don't know how boring it is as a hoplite, supposedly the anti-cav class, trying to fight against 2 or 3 heavy cav, who are on literally invincible horses. lol.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Lennu on May 28, 2014, 06:50:10 pm
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lol i failed the meme

THIS PATCH IS AWESOME!!! With only 1 downside.... it should have come out sooner :( I already respecced my thrower alt into 15/21 build, so I can't use the new throwing lances.   :?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Ikarus on May 28, 2014, 06:51:38 pm
I´m curious in what way this patch will change battles  :o

but thankfully the fat horses aren´t that strong anymore
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mendro on May 28, 2014, 06:52:16 pm
I don't understand the new balance of throwing lance.

I suggest :
less damage (around 44)
increase the difficulty (8)
1 slot

At least hight pt build will have a nice buff and throwers will stop going everytime to the agi way

And why increasing the accuracy of throwing weapons ? We are throwers, not archers. Being inaccurate is a part of our class.

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thumper on May 28, 2014, 06:53:26 pm
poor katana, even though I don't use it, poor poor katana
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 28, 2014, 06:57:02 pm
Well, so much for my lvl33 heavy cav ---> useless
Guess I was lucky to at least trade away my +3 plated charger a couple of days ago but my mamluk is for the shit now.
I dont get this patch.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: _GTX_ on May 28, 2014, 06:57:17 pm
2h nerf, 1h buff. Surprise!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 28, 2014, 06:58:43 pm
Even though heavy cavalry was overpowered, this shouldn't be the way how it's done. What am i supposed to do with my Mamluk Horse now ?


Call it QQ or whatever you like, i don't want to have an item i will not use ever again in my inventory.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: tkn123 on May 28, 2014, 06:59:18 pm
I don't understand the new balance of throwing lance.

I suggest :
less damage (around 44)
increase the difficulty (8)
1 slot

At least hight pt build will have a nice buff and throwers will stop going everytime to the agi way

And why increasing the accuracy of throwing weapons ? We are throwers, not archers. Being inaccurate is a part of our class.

They have decreased the accuracy of throwing lance...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 28, 2014, 06:59:28 pm
edit: for all those people crying, take cicero as an example, i once reared him with 7 powerstrike and 140 wpf pole, +3 red tassel, 6 times in a single round, with allies all around, and his horse still survived, with him getting 10+ kills, taking every chance possible because he knows his horse cannot die.

it was the same for all heavy cav. invincible horses were lame as fuck, and it's nice that you will finally have to use reasonable mid-tier horses unless you are more specialised. you heavy cav guys don't know how boring it is as a hoplite, supposedly the anti-cav class, trying to fight against 2 or 3 heavy cav, who are on literally invincible horses. lol.

Are there people actually crying about the nerf to cavalry? Most of the crying is about the balance being totally off now and some builds like the 24/15 totally broken.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: polkafranzi on May 28, 2014, 06:59:37 pm
got rid of my PC too while the people who were requesting ones were not aware of patch/at work or smthn :D

holidays ftw

die patch
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mendro on May 28, 2014, 07:01:24 pm
They have decreased the accuracy of throwing lance...

Ok, except the throwing lance
I speak about axes / darts/ javelins / spears
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 28, 2014, 07:04:33 pm
Are there people actually crying about the nerf to cavalry? Most of the crying is about the balance being totally off now and some builds like the 24/15 totally broken.

use a lighter horse
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 28, 2014, 07:04:39 pm
The accuracy on throwing weapons like all ranged weapons is the accuracy value minus the damage value. Thus throwing lances are a lot more accurate with this patch.

+1 to Mendro's question about buffing throwing accuracy. It should be all about damage and rate of fire, not accuracy.

use a lighter horse

They can't survive long enough against horse archers which are the new master race of the battle field.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: tkn123 on May 28, 2014, 07:05:58 pm
Yeah but if you have a 7 pt character the accuracy has been reduced  :(
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 28, 2014, 07:06:58 pm
all those QQ about heavy cavs... ffs

what am i supposed to do now, huh?
they deestroyed my build and didnt gave me a chance to change it. it's dumb enough to change the rules so much. give free respec for cavs tnen ffs.

bullshit patch
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 28, 2014, 07:07:25 pm
use a lighter horse
Suffocate
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 28, 2014, 07:14:31 pm
fuck this game not gonna play it anymore, have fun playing it alone devs or whoever fucks it constantly
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Johammeth on May 28, 2014, 07:15:12 pm
Thus ends my 3 day spree of plated charger torchbumpmy old friendgery.

On the plus side, I got out without a single repair bill, suckers!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 28, 2014, 07:16:12 pm
ye. i ve got the same thought.

let's leave all dose 2hs and HAs alone
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on May 28, 2014, 07:18:12 pm
http://youtu.be/yvCDQ2UmJhE?t=1m17s
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on May 28, 2014, 07:18:24 pm
thank god that on the one generation out of like my last 6 that im not 1h cav, they decide to pull down cav players pants and shove their dingus a mile in their asshole

because my build would be totally fucked like all those other people they didnt think about letting fix their build lol
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thryn on May 28, 2014, 07:19:08 pm
I want to see the new throwing lances, they were changed up a bit
I want to see if Giggle got buffed
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 28, 2014, 07:24:18 pm
They can't survive long enough against horse archers which are the new master race of the battle field.

my cav char The_Responsible_Cow, unheirloomed destrier with 8 riding skill, played through that build for 4 full generations including several respecs and i never really died to archers that much :3
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on May 28, 2014, 07:27:40 pm
*harvesting tears from the 24/7 plate chargers*
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Nehvar on May 28, 2014, 07:28:45 pm
I never thought the hand and a half swords needed the speed buff they got way back when so I don't mind them losing that buff now.  ...but since you buffed all the other 2h swords since then...you need to now take a look at how they compare to the two-handed sword.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: no_rules_just_play on May 28, 2014, 07:31:12 pm
I'm a level 34 15/24 cav build and will have 8 riding soon. However, I want to state that even though I will be able to play my build, this is the worst fucking idea ever.

Can you fuck up everything I have special even more? I used to be one of the few agiwhores, now everyone is one. I used to be one of the few who will have 8 riding, now everybody who gets his hands on a respec or who gets to make a new cav char will have it too.

This is in no way a good or realistic solution to the problem of 'cav being OP', but you will probably increase STR requirements of heavy armour too so we will be seeing  peasants on top of plated chargers and such. Cav might have been a little too strong, but I had to play HOURS to even be able to use my heavy horse for a few rounds.

Now we will have nothing but high agi cavalry, rather than the slower plated guys who could be easily stopped by pikers. Hell, why not just buff pikers to counter cavalry? I don't know how cav played these days, but I know the last time I played on a horse (before I sold my +3 heraldic barbed warhorse hoping zagibu would put in the heraldic heavy warhorse as promised), I got fucked up by archers in no time.

Yes cav was easy, but there are so much better ways to handle that problem...

QQ
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thryn on May 28, 2014, 07:31:56 pm
I'm a level 34 15/24 cav build and will have 8 riding soon. However, I want to state that even though I will be able to play my build, this is the worst fucking idea ever.

Can you fuck up everything I have special even more? I used to be one of the few agiwhores, now everyone is one. I used to be one of the few who will have 8 riding, now everybody who gets his hands on a respec or who gets to make a new cav char will have it too.

This is in no way a good or realistic solution to the problem of 'cav being OP', but you will probably increase STR requirements of heavy armour too so we will be seeing  peasants on top of plated chargers and such. Cav might have been a little too strong, but I had to play HOURS to even be able to use my heavy horse for a few rounds.

Now we will have nothing but high agi cavalry, rather than the slower plated guys who could be easily stopped by pikers. Hell, why not just buff pikers to counter cavalry? I don't know how cav played these days, but I know the last time I played on a horse (before I sold my +3 heraldic barbed warhorse hoping zagibu would put in the heraldic heavy warhorse as promised), I got fucked up by archers in no time.

Yes cav was easy, but there are so much better ways to handle that problem...

QQ

no_rules_just_rage

i keed, i keed
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 28, 2014, 07:32:37 pm
my cav char The_Responsible_Cow, unheirloomed destrier with 8 riding skill, played through that build for 4 full generations including several respecs and i never really died to archers that much :3

Good luck surviving with that thing when someone like Zero_SaT shows up on the server :wink: It takes about four hits to bring that Destrier down. Archers aren't a problem for most aware cavalry, but horse archers are.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Legs on May 28, 2014, 07:41:50 pm
Increasing difficulty of heavy horses by 2-3 points... but only respeccing 3 attribute points. Are you guys trying to be assholes? Like, how could anyone think that it's a good idea to give heavy horses 8 difficulty? Is the idea that you want to force people to use light horses by making heavy horses impossible to use? Seriously. Heavy cavalry has always been one of the strongest classes but that's because they use 100k+ worth of gear. Repairing that stuff can cost SEVERAL THOUSAND GOLD PER ROUND. If you want to play easymode heavy cavalry the trade-off is that you'll be hemorrhaging money the entire time. That's what makes it balanced.

And giving a huge buff to throwing? Come on. It was already completely ridiculous. As if chucking a hatchet or a knife or something at someone who's wearing armor, even mail, will hurt them. It's the dumbest thing ever. Throwers are by far the most annoying and unrealistic class in cRPG and you buff them. Fuck that.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Bronto on May 28, 2014, 07:49:04 pm
Shouldn't it have been 7 points because -6 for riding and -1 from PS?

oh snap yeah i had 5 riding and 6 WM, either way it fucked me.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 28, 2014, 07:53:03 pm
oh snap yeah i had 5 riding and 6 WM, either way it fucked me.

(click to show/hide)
The girl on the gif only says "Deserve it right now" though, right?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 28, 2014, 07:54:39 pm
The girl on the gif only says "Deserve it right now" though, right?

who the fuck cares, they wrote subtitles to deliver a different message
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 28, 2014, 08:00:00 pm
In addition, the requirement has increased for heavy cavs so, they will go faster and be more agile than expected.
Hahaha, that's the most fucked up complaint I've ever seen, oh god  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on May 28, 2014, 08:02:12 pm
Well that respec screwed me a bit. Due to the way I levelled I now have 3 skill points to put into riding where my desterier now needs 6... yes I could convert them but then my build would be 18/18 where before it was 21/18?
How does this even work? I lost 2 skill points somewhere

EDIT: That's better thank you :)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Johammeth on May 28, 2014, 08:03:35 pm
who the fuck cares, they wrote subtitles to deliver a different message

Unrealistic dubbing breaks my immersion!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 28, 2014, 08:05:29 pm
Good luck surviving with that thing when someone like Zero_SaT shows up on the server :wink: It takes about four hits to bring that Destrier down. Archers aren't a problem for most aware cavalry, but horse archers are.

meh, i tend to try and stay close to team mates if there are HA running around, horse archers don't bother you too much if you've got steevee/mendro/shoko stood next to you :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Torost on May 28, 2014, 08:06:11 pm
Great patch!

Much needed, got me all fired up again to play.

Love what you did with the horses and Throwing Lance(2slot).

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: FleetFox on May 28, 2014, 08:06:35 pm
Man it seems like a lot of players have been screwed :/// Time to implement Full respecs for 1 loompoint or 300-400k me thinks...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 28, 2014, 08:09:33 pm
I don't understand the new balance of throwing lance.

I suggest :
less damage (around 44)
increase the difficulty (8)
1 slot

At least hight pt build will have a nice buff and throwers will stop going everytime to the agi way

And why increasing the accuracy of throwing weapons ? We are throwers, not archers. Being inaccurate is a part of our class.

Was going to make jarids 6 difficulty and throwing spears 5, but it would've been too annoying to ask harald for mini-respecs for every little thing. It would be even more annoying to have a 5->7 difficulty jump since throwing spears deserved to be 5 difficulty at those stats anyways.

About the accuracy, for some reason jarids were very accurate compared to everything else while outdamaging them, too. Decided to scale accuracy to jarids (which essentially stayed the same) instead of making jarids less accurate. It makes sense for the weaker weapons to be more accurate, while the stronger weapons remain less accurate.

Throwing lance is a special case, since it can't really 1shot medium armor anymore. Designed around 2-shotting now. For hybrids that would bring another weapon, they would bring 2 or 3 lances and their sidearms. A pure build would bring 4 ammo. Now, a player can bring 1 set with 2 slots to spare for other equipment. Pure builds would bring 2 sets with 2 equipment spaces for 0 slot items. With a 0 slot 1h, they would need to split their proficiency when they already have a decent melee mode. With a 0 slot shield, they need 3 shield for the viable choice. Most utility would come from 0 slot throwing weapons so you don't waste ammo on peasants. There are no 0 slot 2h/polearms, so there's only so much that can be done with those spaces.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 28, 2014, 08:09:52 pm
meh, i tend to try and stay close to team mates if there are HA running around, horse archers don't bother you too much if you've got steevee/mendro/shoko stood next to you :P

what about courage, comrade?  :cry:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 28, 2014, 08:16:00 pm
Man it seems like a lot of players have been screwed :/// Time to implement Full respecs for 1 loompoint or 300-400k me thinks...

Yes !

And somebody needs to buy my Mamluk Horse :D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Hobb on May 28, 2014, 08:25:04 pm
I believe that event items can't get loomed. Cav changes I tweaked from another proposal that was somewhat confusing. Obsession with Tydeus is odd, he nerfed the longsword. Ranged deal as much damage as they did to heavy cav before before the armor soak change, and most experienced HP increases.

so the difference between pierce and cut damage doesn't affect different horses? what is the point of the armor then? or is it only for melee damage?

also, I like the nerfing of charge damage, but you make it even harder to bump groups because now you get stopped easier with less charge. is there a way to differentiate between damage down and knockdown potential in the "charge" catagory?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: T_Grellenort on May 28, 2014, 08:26:29 pm
Plated Charger completely useless.  :evil: Upkeep:4,218 gold  :lol:
Mamluk Horse much better because of small size, but still not worth 8 riding and Upkeep:3,502 gold.  :(

If I had more time to think, would not do terrible build even for the sake of my favorite horses.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Quentry on May 28, 2014, 08:31:39 pm
Worst patch ever. And i'm not a gaycav
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: polkafranzi on May 28, 2014, 08:33:38 pm
You do have to start questioning the whole mod when they are still balance patching after this many years, and doubtless a few months down the line from this one something else will need nerfing/buffing...will it ever be right?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 28, 2014, 08:34:00 pm
Worst patch ever. And i'm not a gaycav
A longsword user though?  :D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 08:34:46 pm
You do have to start questioning the whole mod when they are still balance patching after this many years, and doubtless a few months down the line from this one something else will need nerfing/buffing...will it ever be right?
I thought everything was ok with build just afew items needed nerfing but then they go and fuck it up like always  :mad:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Quentry on May 28, 2014, 08:39:28 pm
A longsword user though?  :D
Yes, but I'm meaning cav balance, to nerf 1h cav they just should buff lance angle instead of THAT
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: tkn123 on May 28, 2014, 08:42:03 pm
Was going to make jarids 6 difficulty and throwing spears 5, but it would've been too annoying to ask harald for mini-respecs for every little thing. It would be even more annoying to have a 5->7 difficulty jump since throwing spears deserved to be 5 difficulty at those stats anyways.

About the accuracy, for some reason jarids were very accurate compared to everything else while outdamaging them, too. Decided to scale accuracy to jarids (which essentially stayed the same) instead of making jarids less accurate. It makes sense for the weaker weapons to be more accurate, while the stronger weapons remain less accurate.

Throwing lance is a special case, since it can't really 1shot medium armor anymore. Designed around 2-shotting now. For hybrids that would bring another weapon, they would bring 2 or 3 lances and their sidearms. A pure build would bring 4 ammo. Now, a player can bring 1 set with 2 slots to spare for other equipment. Pure builds would bring 2 sets with 2 equipment spaces for 0 slot items. With a 0 slot 1h, they would need to split their proficiency when they already have a decent melee mode. With a 0 slot shield, they need 3 shield for the viable choice. Most utility would come from 0 slot throwing weapons so you don't waste ammo on peasants. There are no 0 slot 2h/polearms, so there's only so much that can be done with those spaces.

Thats all well and good for none dedicated throwers, but my full plate lance thrower can't split wpf as he don't have any too split, its all in throwing. The high damage was my only hope of killing people before they got to me, now you've nerfed it to shit, it will take nearly all 6 lances at least to kill any armour dude with some ironflesh...

 :(
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 08:43:21 pm
I think its about time these devs start to ask the community what it wants instead of themselves and there friends, also its time to put patches to vote, we should be able to vote if we want the patch or not what do you guys think?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 28, 2014, 08:49:16 pm
I think its about time these devs start to ask the community what it wants instead of themselves and there friends, also its time to put patches to vote, we should be able to vote if we want the patch or not what do you guys think?

As someone who read the forum, I must answer no.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 08:55:43 pm
As someone who read the forum, I must answer no.
ok lets see them nerf everything to the point where no class is playable so everyone wins  :wink:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thranduil on May 28, 2014, 09:00:09 pm
To the complainers of balance:

Go play Native.

Love,
Thranduil
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 28, 2014, 09:01:05 pm
ok lets see them nerf everything to the point where no class is playable so everyone wins  :wink:
Sounds like balance to me.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: njames89 on May 28, 2014, 09:06:13 pm
James slowly approached the grave. His dynasty had dreaded this day for 27 generations. He bowed his head and said quietly.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on May 28, 2014, 09:08:39 pm
Hate to mention it but what about pelt hoods?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on May 28, 2014, 09:16:41 pm
chadz and mod team please uninstall and give the mod to the players.  Imbeciles....  +3 CHARGER FOR SALE TO ANY NERD THAT SOMEHOW HAS 8 RIDING.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 28, 2014, 09:19:57 pm
chadz and mod team please uninstall and give the mod to the players.  Imbeciles....  +3 CHARGER FOR SALE TO ANY NERD THAT SOMEHOW HAS 8 RIDING.
500k
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 28, 2014, 09:22:43 pm
what about courage, comrade?  :cry:

if you're not stabbing someone in the back you're not doing it right! :D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Miley on May 28, 2014, 09:23:46 pm
Make the heavy horses a bunch of riding so they can't be worn with heavy armor as they historically were... k
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mendro on May 28, 2014, 09:31:48 pm
Was going to make jarids 6 difficulty and throwing spears 5, but it would've been too annoying to ask harald for mini-respecs for every little thing. It would be even more annoying to have a 5->7 difficulty jump since throwing spears deserved to be 5 difficulty at those stats anyways.

About the accuracy, for some reason jarids were very accurate compared to everything else while outdamaging them, too. Decided to scale accuracy to jarids (which essentially stayed the same) instead of making jarids less accurate. It makes sense for the weaker weapons to be more accurate, while the stronger weapons remain less accurate.


Accuracy is not the same for axes and javelins / spears / jarids. Now axes are really too accurate.
Also jarids is no more stronger comparing to throwing spears. Throwing spears give + 1 ammo for - 3 damage. It's make jarids a bit useless now .

Pure builds would bring 2 sets with 2 equipment spaces for 0 slot items. With a 0 slot 1h, they would need to split their proficiency when they already have a decent melee mode. With a 0 slot shield, they need 3 shield for the viable choice. Most utility would come from 0 slot throwing weapons so you don't waste ammo on peasants. There are no 0 slot 2h/polearms, so there's only so much that can be done with those spaces.

0 slots throwing weapons are knifes / daggers / shurriken. They are not real throwing weapons in my opinion. It's for trololo dagger / ninja or people who don't want to get kite by ranged.
Title: AWESOME !!
Post by: Azuma on May 28, 2014, 09:37:39 pm
HELL !!!!

HAAALLELUJAAAAH !


GRELLENORT DIIIIIEE !!!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Spleen on May 28, 2014, 09:39:11 pm
great, now I fucked up my build because I got confused by the partial cav respec...any way to reset one skillpoint?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Azuma on May 28, 2014, 09:42:37 pm
great, now I fucked up my build because I got confused by the partial cav respec...any way to reset one skillpoint?

Respec.  8-)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Harald on May 28, 2014, 09:44:26 pm
great, now I fucked up my build because I got confused by the partial cav respec...any way to reset one skillpoint?
If anyone messes up send me a PM with the char name and i'll revert.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 09:46:18 pm
If anyone messes up send me a PM with the char name and i'll revert.
are we allowed to get full respect if we was cav before patch?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 09:47:26 pm
If anyone messes up send me a PM with the char name and i'll revert.
also give us back our old patch everyone was happy then   :cry:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on May 28, 2014, 09:52:14 pm
A nerf to heavy and buff to light cav was totally overdue. Light cav definitely needed the HP/armor buffs. I can use my courser now!

But, raising difficulty to 8 on some of the heavy horses was a mistake. People just aren't going to use them now.

And they're all still stupidly expensive for Strat use.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: stickher on May 28, 2014, 09:54:50 pm
Id like to say your doing a great job. buff range again it was well needed skinless players need a better chance of non risk kills on good players.
Nerf 2hand also well needed to many of those guys running around with 3 arrows in them. Nerf cav difficultly require awesome, now heavy cavs will have 7 or 8 riding making their bumbs really hurt.

GREAT JOB OVERALL!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Phantasmal on May 28, 2014, 09:58:14 pm
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
|
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 97                             | 96                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BoneSaw on May 28, 2014, 10:09:54 pm
TYDEUS FUCKING STOP
I agree brother, Tydeus please leave our mod alone. Please?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Killer on May 28, 2014, 10:13:26 pm
Eh now i don't have to ride cav anymore that is what the partial respec lets u do right (go inf instead of cav)?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: stickher on May 28, 2014, 10:15:48 pm
I agree brother, Tydeus please leave our mod alone. Please?

you could do only one good thing bring old crpg back

exp BARN!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 10:25:48 pm
you could do only one good thing bring old crpg back

exp BARN!
yes bring back old patch and xp barn!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: jtobiasm on May 28, 2014, 10:27:34 pm
wtf devs!!!! WOOF WOOF

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                           visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 28, 2014, 10:29:18 pm
If anyone messes up send me a PM with the char name and i'll revert.

you're such a nice guy

i mean my build's not affected in the slightest by this patch, but i'd just like to point out, that you're such a nice guy

:)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: xxkaliboyx on May 28, 2014, 10:41:08 pm
Can we look at the Desert Horse and the Arabian Horse?  What is the incentive to go up to 7 Riding if the Desert Horse is just as good with 2 less in riding with minus 1200 upkeep? Besides that, Heavy Cav was due a nerf, but what about the Heavy Cav characters? What are they going to do with their loomed heavy horses?

PS: Throwers are everywhere and seem a little OP at the moment.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 10:43:37 pm
Can we look at the Desert Horse and the Arabian Horse?  What is the incentive to go up to 7 Riding if the Desert Horse is just as good with 2 less in riding with minus 1200 upkeep? Besides that, Heavy Cav was due a nerf, but what about the Heavy Cav characters? What are they going to do with their loomed heavy horses?
your right Heavy cav was due a nerf but not this way, make it 7 to 8 riding is stupid its not a nerf its called making it unplayable
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on May 28, 2014, 10:53:20 pm
Eh now i don't have to ride cav anymore that is what the partial respec lets u do right (go inf instead of cav)?

exactly what I did, with 5 riding you really don't have much horse choice anymore
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gurnisson on May 28, 2014, 10:56:41 pm
your right Heavy cav was due a nerf but not this way, make it 7 to 8 riding is stupid its not a nerf its called making it unplayable

6-8, is that really unplayable? :rolleyes:

If you used strength builds with 5 riding you can reach Padded Warhorse, Courser, the Barded horses and the Destrier with the free respec, not bad I'd say. The original suggestion was much harsher, it was tweaked later on.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlueKnight on May 28, 2014, 11:02:14 pm
6-8, is that really unplayable? :rolleyes:

If you used strength builds with 5 riding you can reach Padded Warhorse, Courser, the Barded horses and the Destrier with the free respec, not bad I'd say. The original suggestion was much harsher, it was tweaked later on.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 28, 2014, 11:03:37 pm
6-8, is that really unplayable? :rolleyes:

If you used strength builds with 5 riding you can reach Padded Warhorse, Courser, the Barded horses and the Destrier with the free respec, not bad I'd say. The original suggestion was much harsher, it was tweaked later on.

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all I can say is role on banner lords so you guys lose all your powers  :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Waylit on May 28, 2014, 11:09:07 pm
Nice to wake up to a patch I mostly like.

My one concern is that 8 Diff for the heaviest horses seems a bit much.  Note, I do not play that class.  But when being a plated horse knight means going 16-18/24 now...and you have to soak 8 skill points into riding... It weights this game even further towards 31+ levels.

And that sucks for new players, especially new players who like to have alts and play different classes.  Every game change that gives  31+ levels (Ultra Levels) more advantages/incentives/impossible classes shafts the newbie, who is left with the choice of spending their play time getting Masterworks, or avoiding those and going straight to Ultra Level so they can compete skills wise (or at least run away from 15/30s) with the Old Guard (who are covered in multi-alt masterwork sets and are working on lvl 35 at the moment). 

Barely affects me, but I have one very good friend of mine who refuses to play this game because why should a free mod have a class progression model that gives heavy rewards to those who have played the game a long time?  It's not like y'all profit off playtime like MMORPGs or anything. 

I personally wouldn't mind a new player skipping the fun, leeching for some cash, and then getting to play the Plated Knight of Their Dreams.  They still won't have the Str or AGI of the 34s. 
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlindGuy on May 28, 2014, 11:12:32 pm
BlindGuy, the way you express your sentiments, calls for your opinion to be ignored, whether valid or not.
Less general personal attacks, more constructive argumentation!

I could baste my opinions in butter and serve with a sprig of parsley and they would carry the same weight Butan :D

I wrote another rage post about the way balance is, but then deleted it, just to write this:

Non of the recent changes (Or any tbh) have greatly inconvenienced me, my "main" (I dont really have this), or my fav weapons or playstyle. I love all the classes, except horse ranged, have many gens of many things, have ecclectic and silly looms, I love it all. Light spiked club to long maul, dagger to long bow, I love them all, but each patch I watch more things "fixed" by breaking them. So, from me, to balance team:

Please stop. Please.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: phnxhdsn on May 28, 2014, 11:12:57 pm
Cicero gun be mad, lel

Finally a buff for eastern horse!! and they actually put in 2 slot but 3 ammo lances which i suggested like a year ago :D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 28, 2014, 11:27:17 pm
6-8, is that really unplayable? :rolleyes:

If you used strength builds with 5 riding you can reach Padded Warhorse, Courser, the Barded horses and the Destrier with the free respec, not bad I'd say. The original suggestion was much harsher, it was tweaked later on.

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Now that shows that whoever made this is... special. Do you just want to reduce cav or what was actually the thought behind it? I'd like to be able to follow your point of view on balancing/changing.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Friedturtle on May 28, 2014, 11:37:15 pm
Love the patch so far :)

But whats up with this?  :lol:

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| gold                                                   | 4467                          | 4471                          |
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gurnisson on May 28, 2014, 11:47:14 pm
Now that shows that whoever made this is... special. Do you just want to reduce cav or what was actually the thought behind it? I'd like to be able to follow your point of view on balancing/changing.

Well, I didn't bring these changes up, but cav is/was very strong, no doubt about it. Some adjustments were deserved. Personally I found some of the original suggestions too harsh, that's probably the reason why the first and harshest requirement change didn't go through. However, I've played a lot of 21/18 with Mamluk Horse, and that is very, very strong. At least with 8 riding your health pool has to be somewhat reduced, which can make mistakes deadlier.

While it is somewhat sad that I can't use my +3 Mamluk without a STF character, as both my lancer and 1h cav can only reach 7 riding with the free respec, this change still feels like a positive. 5 riding, high strength and high tier armour was too strong for little investment. I hope you at least can agree with the fact that 5 riding for many of the top horses of the game was a bit too little investment for what they give?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kartoffel_Salat on May 28, 2014, 11:48:11 pm
cav should get full respec imo
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Algarn on May 29, 2014, 12:14:42 am
Everyone should get full respec imo

Fixed it for you. Seriously, we got a topic with more than 15 pages which are talking about solutions about giving respecs for everyone, but the worst thing is that is standing for months. Why not giving a damned free respec there ? I see people screwed up a bit everywhere if their build wasn't balanced, and others (not only cavs afaik) that are simply tired of their builds. Give community what it wants, give the chance to everyone to play different builds without loosing 6 millions of gold or 50% of the time you did grind.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 29, 2014, 12:18:17 am
Well, I didn't bring these changes up, but cav is/was very strong, no doubt about it. Some adjustments were deserved. Personally I found some of the original suggestions too harsh, that's probably the reason why the first and harshest requirement change didn't go through. However, I've played a lot of 21/18 with Mamluk Horse, and that is very, very strong. At least with 8 riding your health pool has to be somewhat reduced, which can make mistakes deadlier.

While it is somewhat sad that I can't use my +3 Mamluk without a STF character, as both my lancer and 1h cav can only reach 7 riding with the free respec, this change still feels like a positive. 5 riding, high strength and high tier armour was too strong for little investment. I hope you at least can agree with the fact that 5 riding for many of the top horses of the game was a bit too little investment for what they give?

Actually the thing that I'm really upset about is that I have 2 +3 horses and can only use 1 now. The other is unreachable with this minor respec. Some days ago I had a mamluk and a plated charger but luckily traded the plated away. That would've been 6 LP out the window.
I mean, after all thats hundreds of hours that I spent in this game to get the items I want and then you just put them out of my reach. This is so frustrating, I dont mind small changes much but thats just so character-ruining.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thranduil on May 29, 2014, 12:18:52 am
While I like that cav has been nerfed, I do feel it may have been nerfed just a bit too much when you look at the new requirements. I feel that armored horses would be fine with 6 difficulty and the chargers/mamluk at 7. I would also put desert horse and eastern horse at 6. None of the horses should have requirement above 7 IMHO.



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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kampfkarotte on May 29, 2014, 12:20:27 am
I like most of the changes, but I don't like that they increased riding requirement of heavy horses from 5 to 8(!)
Guess that almost banned them, I mean who has 8 riding? I'm sure most cav players dont..
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: chesterotab on May 29, 2014, 12:26:07 am
With all of these mini respecs and reworks recently, my 27-15 generic 2h strength whore build i had a year ago has become a 21-21 pure zen balance 420 king of KD, 2h/pole/1h hybrid 6 riding build.

I am pleased at most everything EXCEPT all the 8 difficulty horses. I never used them in battle (heraldic barded for life), but 8 difficulty will make those 3 horses mostly extinct on battle, and for sure you will never see them in strat after the gold change coupled with this. Less variety is never a good thing.

Buff charger, mamluk, plated charger to 7 riding.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: mrrdhardy on May 29, 2014, 12:28:15 am
want to nerf heavy cav then change the armour and hit points but not the riding
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dutchydave on May 29, 2014, 12:34:13 am
Seriously this is pathetic, why make such radical changes Tydeus? Why don't you do your maths with the cav respect. If you put the riding requirement up by 3 that's 9 attributes you need to respect, with just 3 attributes respeced you prob just totally wrecked a shit ton of peoples builds. Narrow minded  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 29, 2014, 12:35:19 am
Seriously this is pathetic, why make such radical changes Tydeus? Why don't you do your maths with the cav respect. If you put the riding requirement up by 3 that's 9 attributes you need to respect, with just 3 attributes respeced you prob just totally wrecked a shit ton of peoples builds. Narrow minded  :rolleyes:
that
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 29, 2014, 12:40:42 am
Love the patch so far :)

But whats up with this?  :lol:

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  • Donkey                                         | old                             | new                           |
|-----------------------------------------------|----------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                                   | 4467                          | 4471                          |
I think it was a copy paste fail in the proposal thread, but when I went to commit the changes I saw it and laughed. I figured at least one other person would see it and chuckle, or even better, we'd get a person QQ'ing about it.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on May 29, 2014, 12:46:45 am
I feel that many horses got nerfed too much. Cavalry wasn't "over-powered", it wasn't too strong. It simply punished stupidity.

You want to run forward from spawn holding the w-key, playing with no sound and refusing to look around you? You're gonna get wrecked.

You want to become so absorbed in a fight that you don't listen to any sounds around you, and you develop massive tunnel-vision? You're gonna get wrecked.

You pay attention and face the cavalry player using anything other than short blunt 1h weapons? The cavalry player is gonna get wrecked.

I'm prepared for the massive horde of throwers that can't be assed to melee anymore, or never learned to do it in the first place, though. Gonna be cool.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 29, 2014, 12:54:35 am
I'm prepared for the massive horde of throwers that can't be assed to melee anymore, or never learned to do it in the first place, though. Gonna be cool.
We've been having Golovorezik for quite some time already, a 150 ping lance thrower who somehow wrecks.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Johammeth on May 29, 2014, 12:56:55 am
We've been having Golovorezik for quite some time already, a 150 ping lance thrower who somehow wrecks.

Perhaps he's the world's first X-man, with the rather underwhelming ability to see precisely 150 milliseconds into the future?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Bulzur on May 29, 2014, 12:58:53 am
Eastern horse got a little love, but damn that price increase.
I didn't care about the -1 requirement, i'd rather have a true "weak" 8 riding requirement horse, now that all the heavy ones fall in the category.


I'm sad to see the courser, and really freaking out. I'll probably go siege to "evade" all the couching noobs...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Warborn304 on May 29, 2014, 12:59:24 am
Another patch to prepare us all to become 2h in preparation for meleegaming.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 29, 2014, 01:01:18 am
Another patch to prepare us all to become 2h in preparation for meleegaming.
Didn't you hear? 2h is nerfed and shit. Just read the earlier pages of this thread.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 29, 2014, 01:06:06 am

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Bastard Sword (Primary)                        | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 101                            | 100                           |
| thrust damage                                      | 21 pierce                      | 23 pierce                     |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Heavy Bastard Sword (Primary)                  | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 100                            | 99                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [0] Longsword                                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| speed rating                                       | 97                             | 96                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|



PARTY TIME!

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 29, 2014, 01:13:12 am
We shouldn't need 24 agility and 8 riding (sacrifice lots of things) to use something which can be stopped easily by polearm users.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Oberyn on May 29, 2014, 01:14:21 am
Dat heavy cav nerf! The gods of cRPG have heard the pleas of the downtrodden (literally) masses. Praise the donkey!

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 29, 2014, 01:18:15 am
We shouldn't need 24 agility and 8 riding (sacrifice lots of things) to use something which can be stopped easily by polearm users.
You mean polearms and 2h
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since Tydues was disgruntled that he couldn't stop horses too before 3.3.6
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mlekce on May 29, 2014, 01:44:57 am
I was going to sleep but then i saw this topic and i can't stop touching myself while i read this QQ. Bring it more,please.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Malgalad on May 29, 2014, 01:48:08 am
 :cry:  I was a horseman + archer. I have 2 chioces after this update. -1 PD, I can ride my horse to be a horseman (like I used to) + a low power archer,   or keep my PD to be a archer(like I used to ) because I can't ride my old horse. :shock:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Oberyn on May 29, 2014, 01:49:10 am
We shouldn't need 24 agility and 8 riding (sacrifice lots of things) to use something which can be stopped easily by polearm users.

Yeah, so easily stopped it could happen 3 or 4 times per match. Then just leisury stroll away with maybe 1/5th of your horse's hp gone. Such an inconvenience.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mlekce on May 29, 2014, 01:49:36 am
You do have to start questioning the whole mod when they are still balance patching after this many years, and doubtless a few months down the line from this one something else will need nerfing/buffing...will it ever be right?

I think devs like to change stats and mod so they can read all QQ and have fun. I bet they are addicted to it. :D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tore on May 29, 2014, 01:53:08 am
get a pike lol
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Oberyn on May 29, 2014, 01:58:57 am
:cry:  I was a horseman + archer. I have 2 chioces after this update. -1 PD, I can ride my horse to be a horseman (like I used to) + a low power archer,   or keep my PD to be a archer(like I used to ) because I can't ride my old horse. :shock:

You could always use a lighter horse, but that would mean not having a ridiculously OP armored shooting platform. Imagine, enemy foot archers actually being a danger to you? You poor, poor armored HA.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2014, 02:06:09 am
Dat heavy cav nerf! The gods of cRPG have heard the pleas of the downtrodden (literally) masses. Praise the donkey!

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Don't you think it's also an overall nerf to light horses too ? HP is nice and all, but losing maneuver for that aint gonna cut it.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 29, 2014, 02:06:25 am
Dat heavy cav nerf! The gods of cRPG have heard the pleas of the downtrodden (literally) masses. Praise the donkey!

I will still down your gokart with two shots with my horse archer. Good luck finding a donkey! 8-)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 29, 2014, 02:07:08 am
Don't you think it's also an overall nerf to light horses too ? HP is nice and all, but losing maneuver for that aint gonna cut it.

Arabian only loses 1 speed, which is oK for the extra 19 hp & 4 body armor.
(Not that it stops the shit from getting 1 hit but hey)

I already rolled my 15/24 lance cav build so idgaf bout this speed loss, just gief more armor, yo yo.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tojo on May 29, 2014, 02:44:29 am
New cav nerd is poorly implemented and unneeded, all you have to do to kill cavalry is pay attention. A skill that can't be earned with xp in game, but irl.

THIS ONE GOES OUT TO YOU...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Malgalad on May 29, 2014, 03:24:24 am
You could always use a lighter horse, but that would mean not having a ridiculously OP armored shooting platform. Imagine, enemy foot archers actually being a danger to you? You poor, poor armored HA.
o(T_T)o Too late, I regret not +horse skill. Now I'm a foot archer. Where is the Time Machine. o(X_X)o
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Xeen on May 29, 2014, 03:47:18 am
For the most part, great patch.  I think you took too much armor and hitpoints away from the plated charger, which was already so incredibly niche compared to the infinitely harder to hit smaller armored horses.

I loveee the throwing lance change, but it should probably still be 7 requirement, this change basically just means anyone can use them.  One of the weaknesses of my build was always that I couldn't loot throwing lances, I felt like it was a logical trade-off for being able to kite most people.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jeade on May 29, 2014, 04:09:10 am
So, any word on when the colored pelt hood will be fixed?

Takes one day to turn it into horse face and two plus months to revert it.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: djalexander on May 29, 2014, 04:57:45 am
The change is suck   espicially only return 3 str and all ride    .  which pig head gives this idea!

now i'm totally a piece shit.  i can't event ride my horse before 36! fucking pig head!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Inglorious on May 29, 2014, 04:58:56 am
A nerf to heavy and buff to light cav was totally overdue. Light cav definitely needed the HP/armor buffs. I can use my courser now!

But, raising difficulty to 8 on some of the heavy horses was a mistake. People just aren't going to use them now.

And they're all still stupidly expensive for Strat use.

Out of everything said here, this is the comment I can agree most with.

I'm a Light cavalry user, or an "economically inclined to ride light horses". Light Horse (Rouncey), Light Lance, Light Armor 43b 40l 38h, with no shield and no secondary. Now, I do alright. I make enough money to stay constantly at 43k gold, and only after a diligent amount of effort and time.

I "had" 21 str, and 21 agi with 7ps, 7riding, no IF, and 7WM. Nothing else. Now, I'm 18/24, even though I'm still not going to use heavy armor, heavy or medium lance, or heavy horse.

So, this patch didn't affect me badly to much ... However... I'm still overall contemplating if I the heavy cavalry hit was too much.

Destrier is now 6 riding though, I think that is uncalled for. It's *was* the happy in-between for light and heavy cav. But you lumped it in with heavy since it can take more than 2 arrows from a HA that trails you until you're dead or dismounted. Put at least that horse back to its difficulty the way it was so it remains the "in between" horse of light and heavy, creating the medium. 

Just got home from work, a lot of saddening comments. Don't leave the game just yet.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Porthos on May 29, 2014, 05:04:01 am
I don't care about cavalry or item balance, but what for the low population timer reduction was disabled? EU2 currently dying already (I mean the population is getting lower) and now with increased respawn time it's pretty lame to play when you are at the defending side. Waiting for 30 seconds after death when there are only 10-20 men at the server is weird. Second - why you still cant fix these weird flags at the battle servers, I mean these when you raise them, but the round still not ends. So this is more or less all the things that annoys me currently. And the bugged colored pelt hood too :(
P.S. And thank you for some old siege maps returned in rotation. I really glad to see them back :wink:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sir_Firebus on May 29, 2014, 05:05:43 am
Thanks for fucking over the 30/15 +3 morningstar, sallet with visor and coif, milanese plate, heavy gauntlets, black greaves, and plated charger build I was going to pay 3 mil gold for.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 29, 2014, 05:14:35 am
I don't care about cavalry or item balance, but what for the low population timer reduction was disabled? EU2 currently dying already (I mean the population is getting lower) and now with increased respawn time it's pretty lame to play when you are at the defending side. Waiting for 30 seconds after death when there are only 10-20 men at the server is weird. Second - why you still cant fix these weird flags at the battle servers, I mean these when you raise them, but the round still not ends. So this is more or less all the things that annoys me currently. And the bugged colored pelt hood too :(
P.S. And thank you for some old siege maps returned in rotation. I really glad to see them back :wink:

RIP NA2. Doesn't stand a chance now.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 29, 2014, 05:57:02 am
Harald: partial respec for cav: removes 3 str and all riding skill + decreases str-skills when necessary for all chars which have at least 1 riding.

So if you had 15 agi / 5 riding and were using any heavy cav from the war horse to the plated charger, you are 100% fucked and can't use your old horse? Why didn't the respec give back 9 strength?

I don't even play cav and this is just seems like a really poor choice. It's like when kingrimm got fucked by the 12->13 strength requirement on the steel pick. I hope something is done to afford cav players a respec so they can use the +3 item that their build was centered around.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 29, 2014, 05:57:19 am
The timer should be getting fixed. It was meant only for conquest, not regular siege.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kartoffel_Salat on May 29, 2014, 05:59:14 am
I have a champion mamluk, while yes, it is a heavy horse, and archers can't 1 shot it. It can be 1 shotted by melee. It has been one shotted on me multiple times.

So if you had 15 agi / 5 riding and were using any heavy cav from the war horse to the plated charger, you are 100% fucked and can't use your old horse? Why didn't the respec give back 9 strength?

I don't even play cav and this is just seems like a really poor choice. It's like when kingrimm got fucked by the 12->13 strength requirement on the steel pick. I hope something is done to afford cav players a respec so they can use the +3 item that their build was centered around.

I was 21/15 now i can't use any of my horses....until level 33
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 29, 2014, 06:11:38 am
I feel that many horses got nerfed too much. Cavalry wasn't "over-powered", it wasn't too strong. It simply punished stupidity.

You want to run forward from spawn holding the w-key, playing with no sound and refusing to look around you? You're gonna get wrecked.

You want to become so absorbed in a fight that you don't listen to any sounds around you, and you develop massive tunnel-vision? You're gonna get wrecked.

You pay attention and face the cavalry player using anything other than short blunt 1h weapons? The cavalry player is gonna get wrecked.

I'm prepared for the massive horde of throwers that can't be assed to melee anymore, or never learned to do it in the first place, though. Gonna be cool.
This is the most truth I've ever heard on these forums.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Legs on May 29, 2014, 06:14:11 am
So if you had 15 agi / 5 riding and were using any heavy cav from the war horse to the plated charger, you are 100% fucked and can't use your old horse? Why didn't the respec give back 9 strength?

I don't even play cav and this is just seems like a really poor choice. It's like when kingrimm got fucked by the 12->13 strength requirement on the steel pick. I hope something is done to afford cav players a respec so they can use the +3 item that their build was centered around.

This so hard.

I mean, changing stats is one thing but MOST horses had a 5 riding requirement. With the respec, if you had 5 riding before you can now get up to 6. Unfortunately, almost all of the changed requirements are at 7-8. So you're screwed.

It's not like this is really a nerf either. There will probably be fewer heavy cavalry but they'll only be that much more effective. 2-3 points of riding skill makes a significant difference, especially with difficult to handle heavy horses.

It's just dumb. A hotfix is needed imho.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: T_Grellenort on May 29, 2014, 06:19:23 am
Mamluk Horse                                Plated Charger
hit points: 149                               hit points: 141   

                    :lol:  Have you seen these horses? :lol:

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 29, 2014, 06:20:41 am
I haven't had a chance to get online and experience throwing lances everywhere, but the new stats have me excited. I can finally make my Roman legionnaire alt.

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This so hard.

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/fix-the-cav-respec-good-lord/
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 29, 2014, 09:51:37 am
Yeah, so easily stopped it could happen 3 or 4 times per match. Then just leisury stroll away with maybe 1/5th of your horse's hp gone. Such an inconvenience.

Paying a lot of money to have that and sacrificing things like Maneuver and Speed (so speed bonus too) for that. People needs to pay attention to cav, that's the only thing they should do. Some stat changes might be okay in my opinion, but this just made heavy horses impossible to play for some people. And made their +3 heavy horses useless if they won't use it.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Osakasa on May 29, 2014, 10:21:36 am
Good patch +1, shame you forgot to buff ACS  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: polkafranzi on May 29, 2014, 10:27:52 am
lol eu1 right now, roughly 45 players, everybody has some kind of arrow/jarid/TL/bolt sticking out of them  :mrgreen:

To counter it a couple of plated chargers would be....oh wait.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Strudog on May 29, 2014, 10:30:53 am
what the devs i believe did wrong here was that they nerfed cav directly which was not the problem, Hevy horses were fine and so were light horses. What i would have liked to have seen is an indirect nerf to horses, by buffing anti-cav weapons which would change the mentality of cav players.

The current mentality of cav players, is just Zerg charge and backstab who you want, it didn't matter if you made a mistake, if you had a heavy horse 1 on 1 or more your horse would survive and you would live to fight another day. In my opinion mistakes should be punished .

So in essence what i believe is if your horse was reared then the rider should have to pay for that with a dead horse or be knocked off his horse. This would change the mentality of players from just charging who they want, to somewhat some decision making when playing cav.

And to be honest with the amount of heavy horses running around these days and very few light horses (in my opinion were better horses anyways) you kind of brought it on yourselves.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Azuma on May 29, 2014, 10:35:03 am
Hell, Thanks again !
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: polkafranzi on May 29, 2014, 10:40:42 am
And to be honest with the amount of heavy horses running around these days and very few light horses (in my opinion were better horses anyways) you kind of brought it on yourselves.

This is true.

However, since the death of the pikeman/longspearman (hardly ever see one since a long time) and everybody instantly taking up classes that are powerful (look at eu1 amount of ranged right now), then heavy cav was bound to multiply cos they didn't have a real counter anymore.

50 players right now, 1 guy has a long spear (kulin donkey head ban). GG
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumbs on May 29, 2014, 11:02:22 am
This is true.

However, since the death of the pikeman/longspearman (hardly ever see one since a long time) and everybody instantly taking up classes that are powerful (look at eu1 amount of ranged right now), then heavy cav was bound to multiply cos they didn't have a real counter anymore.

50 players right now, 1 guy has a long spear (kulin donkey head ban). GG

Long spear/pike got nerfed pretty hard. The delay before you do damage + the speed horses travel at + shorter reach + the lack of rear with glances made them pretty weak as anti cav. Even if you do get a rear you're pretty useless by yourself to dehorse him. Polearms should be the master stabbers in the game...feels like the worst atm
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Molly on May 29, 2014, 11:09:20 am
Torn apart between reading this or the whole Temple of Spam thread...

Temple of Spam it is.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2014, 11:47:51 am
Arabian only loses 1 speed, which is oK for the extra 19 hp & 4 body armor.
(Not that it stops the shit from getting 1 hit but hey)

I already rolled my 15/24 lance cav build so idgaf bout this speed loss, just gief more armor, yo yo.

Every time speed or maneuver gets nerfed, the dumb cav game gets even more dumb.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordRichrich on May 29, 2014, 01:39:31 pm
I understand there were a lot of heavy cav around, but nerfing them because of it is ridiculous. The problems with cav imo were 1h cav wtfery bullshit and bump slashing/bump lancing.

however, for a normal under 31 build, it's near impossible to have a viable charger build. You end up with 2 shield OR 2 wm on top of 5PS, 8 riding, 8wm.

So heavy horses are only for high level builds now?

Oh right unless you're HA, which with even less cav around became a little easier.

But really, 8 riding for something that isn't an arabian?! 7 riding for the warhorse?! I personally think 6 up until larhe warhorse, with the rest (including eastern horse) being 7. Not 8 except for arabian warhorse, and 7 shouldn't start so far down the list.

Heavy cav wears heavy armour, when you increase armour diff, there's likely gonna be people wearing armour that looks fucking stupid for their horse. Or more likely transitional (which is popular cos it looks cool) will get pushed above 15, maybe 18 str. Then all these guys with heavy cav won't be albe to use their heavy armour xD
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: matt2507 on May 29, 2014, 01:47:26 pm
Arabian only loses 1 speed, which is oK for the extra 19 hp & 4 body armor.
(Not that it stops the shit from getting 1 hit but hey)

I already rolled my 15/24 lance cav build so idgaf bout this speed loss, just gief more armor, yo yo.

Except by removing a point of speed, the arabian going slower than some heavy cavs. That seems stupid to me.
In addition, I tested yesterday and I have not really felt the differance at the resistance. The arabian still die in 1 or 2 shots.

I don't think it's deserve the 700 more repairs.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: EyeBeat on May 29, 2014, 04:07:43 pm
This is a great patch.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Nerf was in order on cav since upkeep seems to not be threatening any more. 

Actually it hasn't been a threat for a while.

Adjusting the upkeep to higher levels would only screw over newer players so the nerf is a great idea.

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tovi on May 29, 2014, 04:17:56 pm
Dafuk ? My build is totally ruined !
I can't ride anymore !

Edit :  with the skill points back it's ok
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 29, 2014, 04:34:02 pm
I feel that many horses got nerfed too much. Cavalry wasn't "over-powered", it wasn't too strong. It simply punished stupidity.

You want to run forward from spawn holding the w-key, playing with no sound and refusing to look around you? You're gonna get wrecked.

You want to become so absorbed in a fight that you don't listen to any sounds around you, and you develop massive tunnel-vision? You're gonna get wrecked.

You pay attention and face the cavalry player using anything other than short blunt 1h weapons? The cavalry player is gonna get wrecked.

I'm prepared for the massive horde of throwers that can't be assed to melee anymore, or never learned to do it in the first place, though. Gonna be cool.

that's a load of rubbish.

half of EU cavalry was utterly terrible players on +3 mamluk horses, wearing full plate and with strength based builds and the minimum possible riding requirement.

these guys would one shot kill almost anything, the horse would take honestly dozens of hits from most weapons to kill (which is bloody ridiculous), and then when you finally dismounted these strength monsters (who would still be alive thanks to the full plate and high strength), they'd start spamming their secondary weapon / arabian cav sword / the 2h they were swinging from horseback and get a further 5, zero skilled kills. this is the best patch in the last year IMO.

long live patch 0.3.3.7, prais chadz
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on May 29, 2014, 04:41:44 pm
i dont find throwing lance interesting anymore. good thing im close to 31, i can retire. without this patch i would have kept going i think.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: MURDERTRON on May 29, 2014, 04:48:46 pm
Except by removing a point of speed, the arabian going slower than some heavy cavs. That seems stupid to me.
In addition, I tested yesterday and I have not really felt the differance at the resistance. The arabian still die in 1 or 2 shots.

I don't think it's deserve the 700 more repairs.

Yea, San kept catching me and lancing me in the back, on my alt that has 10 riding.  10!  I think he was Ina heavy warhorse.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 29, 2014, 04:52:54 pm
that's a load of rubbish.

half of EU cavalry was utterly terrible players on +3 mamluk horses, wearing full plate and with strength based builds and the minimum possible riding requirement.

these guys would one shot kill almost anything, the horse would take honestly dozens of hits from most weapons to kill (which is bloody ridiculous), and then when you finally dismounted these strength monsters (who would still be alive thanks to the full plate and high strength), they'd start spamming their secondary weapon / arabian cav sword / the 2h they were swinging from horseback and get a further 5, zero skilled kills. this is the best patch in the last year IMO.

long live patch 0.3.3.7, prais chadz
Just jump stab them; it's the most effective way to take down a heavy horsemen and you'll have the advantage as long as they aren't using a lance and you're using a weapon with decent pierce. Also if they're utterly terrible they shouldn't be able to kill 5 of you with an Arabian cav sword especially if they're a slow plate 1hander.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Fips on May 29, 2014, 04:57:01 pm
Fyi, the removal of low pop siege def spawn reducer is bugged, should have only been for conquest mode.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Reyiz on May 29, 2014, 05:09:41 pm
will the devs give full respec to cavs ? because i cant make a good point with this current partial respec shit :cry:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Inglorious on May 29, 2014, 05:20:07 pm
Corsair, Sanderson is NA, where things are a bit different than EU. Entire clans don't saddle up on Plated Chargers with Full Plate armor every day for weeks consecutive. Now, we do see entire horse archer regimes who probably giggle their hearts out at the amount of anger it causes everyone, and CS-GO Pro snipers with every ranged weapon possible. The only way to have your horse survive past the 5:00 mark while having someone like Robert Namo Astralis(NA) on was to have mamluk or something with similar armor. This patch helps with using a heavy horse for the high agi ranged cav and gets rid of alot of people who used to armor up their horse and counter that type of gameplay, in atleast NA.

I think what sanderson is getting at is more than likely just an assessment of players pre-patch adaptability. There's plenty of pole arm users in NA who thrive on anti-cav. When the Occitan, Chevalier, and Hospitaller cavalry comes out to play, so do the long spears and other med-long ranged poles from Raven, MB, Chaos and Remnant. Or, meet cavalry with cavalry, Frisia had like 3-4 guys on horse last time I saw them around, and Remnant has 2-3 GL's who run down heavy cav all day. Basically, it wasn't so much the massive problem in NA that it was in EU, so it's felt differently by some.

My previous post about not being affected by this patch, I was actually helped by it as I only used light horse/light lance/light armor. My default riding horse, Rouncey, seems all the more better now, and I can take about 1 - 2 more hits from arrows and I hardly get 1 hit dismounted by any melee that touch it. The partial respec where I was 21-21 now has me 18-24, creating a more maneuver light horse build and play style for even a horse as basic as the Rouncey. I though am full cav build, no ATH, no shield, no IF, so if I'm downed off my horse I'm going to get 1 hit by any melee person who walks up to me while I try to crawl away from my crash sight with my atrophied legs  :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thryn on May 29, 2014, 05:34:41 pm
fuck yea ive got a donkey face now

+1
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Ronin on May 29, 2014, 06:52:35 pm
Thank god for these patches. With every balance change, we are getting a more balanced game. Yay! The game was utterly broken back when more people were playing it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 29, 2014, 07:10:35 pm
damn. i really do like all these tons of opinions that cavs must be nerfed, cavs must be that, cavs must be...and bla bla bla...
shut up, please. u have to be a cav to know what does it need, don't u? ffs

do u really think it's more easy to ride a heavy horse with 5 riding then running with 8 athl with impossibru polelolstab with the able to stop the horses? or probably 2h is more harder? jeez
u should try to catch someone for the bump first, coz ppl just run away and hit the horse when u tryin to bump him.

but u know, what's on my mind?
all infantry have done poor nerded agi-shitty builds and took light armour... then, they started to complainin about heave cavbumps.
u are incredible stupid. nothin to say there.
get urself some STR and u won't get bumped to death lel. why da fack would heavy cavs pay for ur foolish? blame urself there

and just rhetorical question.
do u really think 600-700kg of meat and steel can't bump hard enough? u bet u won't survive a single bump in the real life.

also heavy horses can't require 8 riding skill. u just don't need so much coz it's slow and it has low maneuverability. unlike light horses, arabian gaywardonkey for example. there u need lotsa agility to sit on the back of it awhile fightin.

heavy cavs are waste thousands tons of gold for upkeep. besides all heavy horses has low maneuverability. it's a fair price, deal with it.

edit.
chadz and mod team please uninstall and give the mod to the players
this
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gandalf77 on May 29, 2014, 07:11:59 pm
yea nerfed horses .... great.... the most shit path ever ....

Edit:
and do something with this shit spawning on siege ... defenders must wait 60 seconds not 30 ....
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: karasu on May 29, 2014, 07:20:37 pm
I missed such a glorious patch. Free drama delivered.

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 29, 2014, 08:39:06 pm
Corsair, Sanderson is NA, where things are a bit different than EU. Entire clans don't saddle up on Plated Chargers with Full Plate armor every day for weeks consecutive. Now, we do see entire horse archer regimes who probably giggle their hearts out at the amount of anger it causes everyone, and CS-GO Pro snipers with every ranged weapon possible. The only way to have your horse survive past the 5:00 mark while having someone like Robert Namo Astralis(NA) on was to have mamluk or something with similar armor. This patch helps with using a heavy horse for the high agi ranged cav and gets rid of alot of people who used to armor up their horse and counter that type of gameplay, in atleast NA.

I think what sanderson is getting at is more than likely just an assessment of players pre-patch adaptability. There's plenty of pole arm users in NA who thrive on anti-cav. When the Occitan, Chevalier, and Hospitaller cavalry comes out to play, so do the long spears and other med-long ranged poles from Raven, MB, Chaos and Remnant. Or, meet cavalry with cavalry, Frisia had like 3-4 guys on horse last time I saw them around, and Remnant has 2-3 GL's who run down heavy cav all day. Basically, it wasn't so much the massive problem in NA that it was in EU, so it's felt differently by some.

My previous post about not being affected by this patch, I was actually helped by it as I only used light horse/light lance/light armor. My default riding horse, Rouncey, seems all the more better now, and I can take about 1 - 2 more hits from arrows and I hardly get 1 hit dismounted by any melee that touch it. The partial respec where I was 21-21 now has me 18-24, creating a more maneuver light horse build and play style for even a horse as basic as the Rouncey. I though am full cav build, no ATH, no shield, no IF, so if I'm downed off my horse I'm going to get 1 hit by any melee person who walks up to me while I try to crawl away from my crash sight with my atrophied legs  :P

i've probably reared more horses on EU than 90% of the players there; literally the first half of every round i spend s-keying with my shield up and baiting cav as hoplite (see my signature on the forum :P ). I am one of the players you described who "thrives on anti-cav". on EU at least, from this i have noticed that there are 2 types of cav player i've come accross,

1. there are the more skilled cav players who intelligently think about their targets, deciding that they're not going to attack that archer because he's got this many allies near him, and they're not going to try and attack this spearmen because they think he's baiting them etc etc. if these guys make a mistake, they are punished for it, and usually die.

2. then there are the second type of cavalry, usually with much heavier horses than the first type, who don't think about their target selection because they know that their horse is practically invincible, and even if there is a 75% chance they'll get reared by a spearmen, they know that even if he rears them he can get away because of his full plate / mamluk horse, and they know that if that 25% chance comes up they'll 1 shot kill him. if these guys make a mistake, they are not really punished for it (as their horse is nearly invincible), and they usually survive.

now, both types of player have the opportunity to get large amounts of kills, but, prior to the patch, the skill requirement for the second one was a LOT lower than the first one; awful players could regularly go 10-1 by full plating with arabian cav sword/ heavy lance and a mamluk, and taking lots and lots of chances.

therefore, long live patch 0.3.3.7, prais chadz
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 29, 2014, 09:35:42 pm
now, both types of player have the opportunity to get large amounts of kills, but, prior to the patch, the skill requirement for the second one was a LOT lower than the first one; awful players could regularly go 10-1 by full plating with arabian cav sword/ heavy lance and a mamluk, and taking lots and lots of chances.
there are many playstyles for any class, mate

i can say same for 2h

1. like qqx no riscin, just fragsteelin
2. retarded backpedallin and swingin
3. no block style
4. ninja style
etc etc but 2h ain't got no nerfed as heavy cav...


Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gnjus on May 29, 2014, 11:53:04 pm
Full wipe would've been a much easier solution to all the problems, most notably for:

a) 90% of people being high level/fully loomed/untouched by repairs even in full plates riding heavy horses/etc

b) tons of patches & changes since the last wipe that affected balance in many ways. One full respec somewhere along the way just doesn't cut it, especially if you have tons of crucial changes afterwards.

c) low numbers (speaking from EU1 perspective) & motivation of players (yes - admit it or not: grind IS one of the key components for most folks out there, you never get bored while trying to reach your "final" build & equipment but after reaching it everything becomes boring very soon, anyone claiming otherwise is a plain liar living in denial)

d) some other things which I can't recall right now but I will, eventually. Being out of it for 3 months and doing other stuff took its toll.


.....but I guess someone prefers drama more.  :wink:
I usually don't comment on patches & balance changes but I'm very impressed by the sharpness of this last patch. It took a lunatic with great balls to actually go ahead with it. :wink:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 29, 2014, 11:57:21 pm
2. then there are the second type of cavalry, usually with much heavier horses than the first type, who don't think about their target selection because they know that their horse is practically invincible, and even if there is a 75% chance they'll get reared by a spearmen, they know that even if he rears them he can get away because of his full plate / mamluk horse, and they know that if that 25% chance comes up they'll 1 shot kill him. if these guys make a mistake, they are not really punished for it (as their horse is nearly invincible), and they usually survive.

I can kill armored horses in 1 or 2 hits, as long as I get a really good speed bonus on the thrust that rears them. I have a decent chance to kill the plate-wearing player before they can stand up too. If I have any allies near me, they will not survive being reared.

does EU seriously not have any polearm players?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 30, 2014, 12:12:15 am
I play a lot on my large warhorse +3 lately, and pre/post patch I very rarely survive being reared once, except if I'm lucky.

Corsair testimony looks like he had a bad nightmare where he got raped by Cicero  :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thomek on May 30, 2014, 12:30:04 am
Great patch.

The retardedly OP heavy cav was killing the mod making it unfunny for everyone.

We will still have them around, but riders will be more vulnerable and specialized. It's not the end of the world for them either.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on May 30, 2014, 12:34:59 am
I don't really understand why people claim cav was such a problem. Awareness is enough to not die to them ever, no matter what weapon choice you make. Once you learn that, cav is incredibly weak.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 30, 2014, 12:48:54 am
Don't argue with Corsair, hes exaggerating alot and mad because he gets killed by heavy cav with 2 bumbs cause high-agi 1h + light armor. All you said so far is correct and also normal on EU, no somewhat good player has problems with dodging cav or rearing/damaging them without being damaged alot himself.

I play 2h, hoplite/polearm and 1h medium-heavy cav- chars and have no problems with any class against any class in any situation, except ranged of course.

i'm 21/21, 140 wpf pole, +3 red tassel spear, and i wear between 30 and 55 body armour :)))

as for the horses, i'm not exaggerating, +3 mamluk horses i regularly rear to the face with their full speed bonus, and this can happen 5, 6 times in a round without them dieing.

it's honestly ridiculous.

--------------as for dodging cav and awareness etc etc, sure, if it was a 5v5, np.

it's not though, it's eu1; 30v30, 40v40, 50v50. these guys take ridiculous chances; they repeatedly attack you in the back even when you have a spear ready, trying to 1 shot kill you, they're completely relying on luck (which is massively boosted by the fact that their horses are so tough); i can be paying attention 9/10 times, rear 9 horses (if they're all heavy horses none of them will die), but that 1/10 times when a heavy cav guy gets through and 1 shot kills me, purely relying on stats and luck, it's just stupid.

this patch, however, has solved that, so it's fine. these people complaining that they can't play as invincible 8 kdr battle tanks anymore is pretty dumb though, just grow a pair and play a fair class guys

EDIT:  if you have a +3 mamluk and would like to come on eu3 to test how many hits it takes i would be more than willing
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 30, 2014, 01:16:38 am
i'm 21/21, 140 wpf pole, +3 red tassel spear, and i wear between 30 and 55 body armour :)))

as for the horses, i'm not exaggerating, +3 mamluk horses i regularly rear to the face with their full speed bonus, and this can happen 5, 6 times in a round without them dieing.

it's honestly ridiculous.

--------------as for dodging cav and awareness etc etc, sure, if it was a 5v5, np.

it's not though, it's eu1; 30v30, 40v40, 50v50. these guys take ridiculous chances; they repeatedly attack you in the back even when you have a spear ready, trying to 1 shot kill you, they're completely relying on luck (which is massively boosted by the fact that their horses are so tough); i can be paying attention 9/10 times, rear 9 horses (if they're all heavy horses none of them will die), but that 1/10 times when a heavy cav guy gets through and 1 shot kills me, purely relying on stats and luck, it's just stupid.

this patch, however, has solved that, so it's fine. these people complaining that they can't play as invincible 8 kdr battle tanks anymore is pretty dumb though, just grow a pair and play a fair class guys

EDIT:  if you have a +3 mamluk and would like to come on eu3 to test how many hits it takes i would be more than willing
hit horse in the legs, 2h hero can sometimes onehit +3 plated charger if lucky, i dont see what is the problem, if people dont know weak spots of horse they should be playing hello kitty or something.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 30, 2014, 01:18:11 am
Upkeep is pretty much solely used to keep item usage in check. So I would refrain from using the argument "but you pay xxxx more gold". Well, either you're great at cav and you don't really worry about the upkeep at all as it's either minor or nonexistent for you, or you're bad and should really only be playing it every now and then. Zero sympathy.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 30, 2014, 01:30:45 am
Every time speed or maneuver gets nerfed, the dumb cav game gets even more dumb.

I guess it is true, but still I dont mind and don't notice a large difference, and I dont even play with a loomed arab.  :lol:

Im still doing the same, but ive never been a type of player that played at the very reach of the items/horses possibility  :wink:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 30, 2014, 01:35:10 am
Full wipe would've been a much easier solution to all the problems, most notably for:

a) 90% of people being high level/fully loomed/untouched by repairs even in full plates riding heavy horses/etc



As ive been saying

Remove looms 2k12
Remove looms 2k13
And now
Remove looms 2k14

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 30, 2014, 01:39:21 am
Corsair, Sanderson is NA, where things are a bit different than EU. Entire clans don't saddle up on Plated Chargers with Full Plate armor every day for weeks consecutive. Now, we do see entire horse archer regimes who probably giggle their hearts out at the amount of anger it causes everyone, and CS-GO Pro snipers with every ranged weapon possible. The only way to have your horse survive past the 5:00 mark while having someone like Robert Namo Astralis(NA) on was to have mamluk or something with similar armor. This patch helps with using a heavy horse for the high agi ranged cav and gets rid of alot of people who used to armor up their horse and counter that type of gameplay, in atleast NA.


Evading arrows isn't véry hard, aslong as you dont get focused down..
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Devestater on May 30, 2014, 02:40:58 am
Okay so now I am almost lv. 35 and my build is all messed up? I have a Champion Cataphract that I can not ride because it requires 7 riding now? Not to mention cav nerfed all to shit. I think a full respec is needed for cav not a half ass one. Especially for the people above lv. 30 that no longer retire. Also think a loom reset for horses is in order since you changed the riding skill level.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Shadowren on May 30, 2014, 02:44:34 am
Okay so now I am almost lv. 35 and my build is all messed up? I have a champion cataphract that I can not ride because it requires 7 riding now? Not to mention cav nerfed all to shit. I think a full respec is needed for cav not a half ass one. Especially for the people above lv. 30 that no longer retire. Also think a loom reset for horses is in order since you changed the riding skill level.

Same Issue :/ but im almost level 33 ( Dont play everyday :P )
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 30, 2014, 04:31:18 am
i'm 21/21, 140 wpf pole, +3 red tassel spear, and i wear between 30 and 55 body armour :)))

as for the horses, i'm not exaggerating, +3 mamluk horses i regularly rear to the face with their full speed bonus, and this can happen 5, 6 times in a round without them dieing.

it's honestly ridiculous.

I'm not exaggerating either. I am 24/21 with 155 pole wpf and I can two-hit horses with a+3  long awlpike thrust, 2-3 hits with a +3 red tassel spear thrust. A side swing from +3 long maul can kill the horse and rider if they are charging at full speed.

What are you doing that makes it take so many more hits?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Devestater on May 30, 2014, 04:47:04 am
Since we are forced not to be cav any longer, The ONLY fair thing to do is give a FULL Character respec to anyone with riding skill AND a loom respec for loomed horses. I could loom my helmet instead and go back to on foot.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 30, 2014, 05:23:21 am
I'm not exaggerating either. I am 24/21 with 155 pole wpf and I can two-hit horses with a+3  long awlpike thrust, 2-3 hits with a +3 red tassel spear thrust. A side swing from +3 long maul can kill the horse and rider if they are charging at full speed.

What are you doing that makes it take so many more hits?
He's either exaggerating Witchcraft or not thrusting properly because your account on these weapons is far more accurate. The corseque is also a polearm that can almost always 2hit +3 heavy horses, just ask Bonsai. Pretty sure working class has 1hit my horse and I with the great long bardiche side swing too.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 30, 2014, 05:31:02 am
He's either exaggerating Witchcraft or not thrusting properly because your account on these weapons is far more accurate. The corseque is also a polearm that can almost always 2hit +3 heavy horses, just ask Bonsai. Pretty sure working class has 1hit my horse and I with the great long bardiche side swing too.

Pretty sure I've oneshot your horse with a long axe... those leg hits, man.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sharpe on May 30, 2014, 05:39:34 am
Holy shit the Siege Spawn Timers.


20 sec countdown= 40 sec waiting time.

(click to show/hide)

Also explain
Tydeus: Tweaked hand/wrist rotation in the onehanded right-to-left swing.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 30, 2014, 06:17:59 am
Pretty sure I've oneshot your horse with a long axe... those leg hits, man.
More than once.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: HappyPhantom on May 30, 2014, 06:53:15 am
I still fondly remember this time on siege, when Finnian with horse and shield charged at me, and I stabbed his horse in that magic sweet spot with my MW short arming sword and 0PS and killed both horse and rider, oh, it was magical.

Unfortunately, I also remember the time I could fearlessly play chicken with an oncoming horse, and shoot it in the head causing it to drop dead. This no longer ever happens. *sigh*.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 30, 2014, 06:57:18 am
i'm 21/21, 140 wpf pole, +3 red tassel spear, and i wear between 30 and 55 body armour :)))

as for the horses, i'm not exaggerating, +3 mamluk horses i regularly rear to the face with their full speed bonus, and this can happen 5, 6 times in a round without them dieing.

it's honestly ridiculous.

EDIT:  if you have a +3 mamluk and would like to come on eu3 to test how many hits it takes i would be more than willing

Altough you're a good player I think you obviously suck at killing horses. I barely survived a rear with, lets say 3 enemies or more around. I mean yeah, if they are weakling agi shits why the fuck should they be able to deal massive damage to a heavily armored horse?
And yes I own a +3 mamluk horse, but guess what... I cant use it anymore unless I reach lvl 39 thanks to that patch.

Now seriously, the fact that statistcs of horses were changed is just a joke and a distraction - the real purpose was obviously a simple item denial which is just totally not what crpg used to be. One of the really great and awesome things always was that you had so many choices.
But hey, lets do some item-chocolate chip cookieing.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 30, 2014, 08:54:07 am
I mean yeah, if they are weakling agi shits why the fuck should they be able to deal massive damage to a heavily armored horse?

Coming from a weak little agi shit, it's still damn easy to kill a horse. I tend to use a long axe, and (say what you will about it) it is probably one of the worst anti-cav weps. Unless you can get on the left side of the cav (so you can use that long right-to-left swing), you're doomed. You either have to completely evade the horse, or try and take a swing (most likely at the cost of your life). That said, I still find it laughably easy to take down cavalry. I've got a whopping 6 PS and can oneshot a +3 warhorse (or large warhorse? I can't tell the difference). That's kinda ridiculous. If they are coming at me full speed, and I notice them, I have almost every advantage. I can easily evade, or run at them (super duper speed bonus time) and take them on with confidence. The only times I complain about cav, it is because of my own fault. That, or while I'm fighting other guys in melee they cut me down from behind... that can't be helped, but whatever, no honor among cav (those backstabbing sons of bitches). Also, anyone who is a hoplite (without a staff... I'm talking a real, peirce-damage-doing hoplite) or two directional polearmer... hell, any polearm with a pierce stab, really, has no reason to complain about cav. Using my bec, voulge, or swiss is a cakewalk against cav. Hell, even my long hafted knobbed mace and long maul are noticeably easier than the long axe simply due to their length. I am noticeably more frustrated about cav as my 1hand shielder, but with the new stab, it's not at all that bad. If you're using a 3 directional 1hander, yeah, you're fucked... but that's simply how this game works. It's rock, paper, scissors (and shotgun... but the shotgun isn't cavalry).
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on May 30, 2014, 09:50:58 am
Okay so now I am almost lv. 35 and my build is all messed up? I have a Champion Cataphract that I can not ride because it requires 7 riding now? Not to mention cav nerfed all to shit. I think a full respec is needed for cav not a half ass one. Especially for the people above lv. 30 that no longer retire. Also think a loom reset for horses is in order since you changed the riding skill level.

Please consider this.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 30, 2014, 10:58:57 am
Okay so now I am almost lv. 35 and my build is all messed up? I have a Champion Cataphract that I can not ride because it requires 7 riding now? Not to mention cav nerfed all to shit. I think a full respec is needed for cav not a half ass one. Especially for the people above lv. 30 that no longer retire. Also think a loom reset for horses is in order since you changed the riding skill level.
VOTE YES 2014! http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/petition/?topicseen
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: jtobiasm on May 30, 2014, 11:17:31 am
I like the new change.

Making the heavy horses 8 riding just means people will either choose, heavy horse or high HP. Great for balancing to stop 95% of the terrible cav players who play EU1 without a risk. heck, I can't even name 3 good lancers. Only Torben springs to mind when thinking of good lancer who isn't using a heavy horse.

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 30, 2014, 11:21:55 am
I like the new change.

Making the heavy horses 8 riding just means people will either choose, heavy horse or high HP. Great for balancing to stop 95% of the terrible cav players who play EU1 without a risk. heck, I can't even name 3 good lancers. Only Torben springs to mind when thinking of good lancer who isn't using a heavy horse.
yes heavy cav might have to chose but most of players wont be able to use their horses without full respec. So thanks devs for fucking us in our dry assholes.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Angantyr on May 30, 2014, 11:31:39 am
Thanks for a great patch, guys.

Now just nerf rain and lawlpike.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: jtobiasm on May 30, 2014, 11:37:57 am
yes heavy cav might have to chose but most of players wont be able to use their horses without full respec. So thanks devs for fucking us in our dry assholes.
I agree that you should get -9 str but you can be effective as cav from level 25+. I honestly doubt respeccing is going to effect anyone. You lose 3 points (if you're level 31+). Just put less in IF or WM.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on May 30, 2014, 12:01:13 pm
Still waiting for a better respec. I have "only" 110Mxp on my heavy cav and I know a lot of other people in the same situation have a lot more, but I'm not going to respec it any time soon. I don't mind the stat changes, although I don't think it was necessary and it broke the balance, but we need a respec so we can adjust our builds to use the gear we have.

And I still think cav needs a speed bonus nerf as this patch did nothing to reduce the actual problem which is the onehits 1H/2H cav are able to pull off.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 30, 2014, 01:04:28 pm
I agree that you should get -9 str but you can be effective as cav from level 25+. I honestly doubt respeccing is going to effect anyone. You lose 3 points (if you're level 31+). Just put less in IF or WM.
but thing is i want to use my horse and without respec it is impossible so i have nice useless item in my inventory that nobody will ever buy, which means i have 3 wasted LP in my inventory. Do devs actualy think befor doing such things?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Molly on May 30, 2014, 01:12:46 pm
You could use 3 of the 123 LPs you have harvested by now and loom another horse.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 30, 2014, 01:17:32 pm
i dont want another horse i want my plated hippozaur
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 30, 2014, 02:25:46 pm
one more thing.
above the point that heavy horses must to require less riding skill then light ones.

why don't u set flamberg is required 9 PS skill. sounds fair enough. this way all dumb  nerded 2hs can't use the weapon like this. u wanna use it get a lot of STR.

u want balance, u ll got balance. fuck those 70% of players who playing with 2h. time to balance.

still, light horses are more demanding then heavy ones.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 30, 2014, 03:58:18 pm
one more thing.
above the point that heavy horses must to require less riding skill then light ones.

why don't u set flamberg is required 9 PS skill. sounds fair enough. this way all dumb  nerded 2hs can't use the weapon like this. u wanna use it get a lot of STR.

u want balance, u ll got balance. fuck those 70% of players who playing with 2h. time to balance.

still, light horses are more demanding then heavy ones.
Because Tydeus uses the Flamberge.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 30, 2014, 05:12:00 pm
Because Tydeus uses the Flamberge.
You're right. I've never once tried to convince anyone that the flamberge is actually OP, especially in comparison to the Glaive. I realize you don't sit in the chaos TS, so you're simply not in touch with the people I converse with, but not making assumptions about things that really can easily be debunked from several angles, might be a good thing to start practicing.

One reason we have an Item Balance TEAM, is specifically for reasons like this. While I may not play a lot of cav, both Gurnisson and San do. So I don't see how you could think "bias" is the cause of the recent patch changes.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 30, 2014, 06:03:30 pm
Is anything planned so we're able to unfuck our cav chars a bit? Like giving back 9 STR instead of 3 or something similar
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on May 30, 2014, 06:58:35 pm
One reason we have an Item Balance TEAM, is specifically for reasons like this. While I may not play a lot of cav, both Gurnisson and San do. So I don't see how you could think "bias" is the cause of the recent patch changes.

because item balancing teams are comprised of humans and humans are self interested and self interest results in biased decisions, even if rationalized and apparently justified sufficiently to themselves and others

and the player base is human and they're gonna complain if their self interests aren't met by the particular biases driving patch changes by the balancers

and we're all gonna die and none of this matters
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: lienlook on May 30, 2014, 07:49:26 pm
this kind of messed up my thrower build; no respec for throwers?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 30, 2014, 07:50:06 pm
because item balancing teams are comprised of humans and humans are self interested and self interest results in biased decisions, even if rationalized and apparently justified sufficiently to themselves and others

and the player base is human and they're gonna complain if their self interests aren't met by the particular biases driving patch changes by the balancers

and we're all gonna die and none of this matters
Indeed, but you're not analyzing "human values", nearly enough. I value balance (not to mention several other qualities) higher than anything else I get out of this mod at the moment. So intentionally leaving an OP weapon as is, simply because I use it, is in conflict with a higher priority value(s). Thus leaving an item unbalanced because of this type of personal bias, is less likely, and uncharacteristic of my personality. I'm not saying I don't have any personal bias to certain things, I clearly do, you just won't it here of all places.

this kind of messed up my thrower build; no respec for throwers?
Eh... really? How? Horse Thrower, perhaps?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 30, 2014, 07:55:27 pm
They pay 3 times or maybe even 4 times more upkeep ONLY for their horse than you pay for your whole equipment, don't you think it's fair that it survives some hits?

I am using a +3 War Horse and it dies in 3-4 hits no matter what weapon, and I already pay 2.3 k upkeep for it, I guess 2 times more than your whole equipment. I think thats more than fair.

firstly, upkeep under no circumstances should affect the balance of the game; at this point in crpg many players have basically unlimited money, and especially with the valour system, many of the better players have nearly permanent x5's.

secondly, a war horse is a medium horse, and has significantly weaker stats than the mamluk horse, with it dieing in 3-4 hits "no matter which weapon", the mamluk dies in 6-8 hits "no matter which weapon".

this was a big problem, considering that it's taking me ~4-5 hits to kill a medium horse and ~8+ hits to kill a heavy horse, whilst they 1 shot kill everyone else because of their combined high strength and the damage done by ACS/2h weapons/lances from horseback (they almost always hit you in the head, + speed bonus, + high powerstrike from strength-based cavalry).

new patch was direly needed.

I'm not exaggerating either. I am 24/21 with 155 pole wpf and I can two-hit horses with a+3  long awlpike thrust, 2-3 hits with a +3 red tassel spear thrust. A side swing from +3 long maul can kill the horse and rider if they are charging at full speed.

What are you doing that makes it take so many more hits?

let's just go to eu3 and test it
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on May 30, 2014, 07:57:47 pm
with 8 PT it takes 2 throwing lances to kill a cloth archer. even pre-patch i couldnt kill a charging rouncy with 1 lance. i dont find any use for them now. other throwing weapons better
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 30, 2014, 08:16:40 pm
me and hate more were just practicing this on eu3, me with 7ps, 140 pole wpf, +3 red tassel, he charged at me full speed on a flat plain and i tried to kill him, took me

9 hits for a +3 plated charger
7 hits for a +3 cataphract
6 hits for a +3 charger
3 hits for a +3 arabian warhorse

remember hate more has 10 riding skill meaning he goes very fast and it increases the damage i did to him
this is all after the armour and hp of most of these horses was significantly nerfed as well

with my 57 body armour and 46 head armour i am regularly one shot killed by cavalry

this patch was a very necessary change.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 30, 2014, 08:20:11 pm
me and hate more were just practicing this on eu3, me with 7ps, 140 pole wpf, +3 red tassel, he charged at me full speed on a flat plain and i tried to kill him, took me

9 hits for a +3 plated charger
7 hits for a +3 cataphract
6 hits for a +3 charger
3 hits for a +3 arabian warhorse

remember hate more has 10 riding skill meaning he goes very fast and it increases the damage i did to him
this is all after the armour and hp of most of these horses was significantly nerfed as well

with my 57 body armour and 46 head armour i am regularly one shot killed by cavalry

this patch was a very necessary change.
hit legs
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 30, 2014, 08:21:11 pm
me and hate more were just practicing this on eu3, me with 7ps, 140 pole wpf, +3 red tassel, he charged at me full speed on a flat plain and i tried to kill him, took me

9 hits for a +3 plated charger
7 hits for a +3 cataphract
6 hits for a +3 charger
3 hits for a +3 arabian warhorse

remember hate more has 10 riding skill meaning he goes very fast and it increases the damage i did to him
this is all after the armour and hp of most of these horses was significantly nerfed as well

with my 57 body armour and 46 head armour i am regularly one shot killed by cavalry

this patch was a very necessary change.

What if we nerfed ranged dmg to a maximum of 10% per hit and 30% per headshot so nobody can oneshotkill anyone except infantry.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: T_Grellenort on May 30, 2014, 08:24:58 pm
(click to show/hide)

death to grellenort! :D

TY!
I'm fine!
First i go to 18/24, to use my mamluk horse and plated charger.
(click to show/hide)

But mamluk horse not more so immortal. Plated charger now die like fly!
So i go back to 21/21.
Warhorse.
(click to show/hide)
Rouncey on strat.
(click to show/hide)



If it makes no different, why i should pay more?
Elite horses are not worth the money, believe me.
Patch hurts only STR cav and horsemen newcomers, and makes shity balance of horses.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Butan on May 30, 2014, 08:26:13 pm
with 8 PT it takes 2 throwing lances to kill a cloth archer. even pre-patch i couldnt kill a charging rouncy with 1 lance. i dont find any use for them now. other throwing weapons better

You mean it takes 1 and a quarter of a throwing lances to kill a cloth archer, surely?
Its power could be bettered to one shot most of everything light and some medium, but then it would quite IMBA.


I find throwing lance excellent on a HT, and on foot to severely maim any horses or unshielded opponent. You dont have to finish them using a 2nd throwing lance, you already took out 90% of their health.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: T_Grellenort on May 30, 2014, 08:29:03 pm
9 hits for a +3 plated charger
Now you can kill him with one blow, before with 2, if, of course, not be a noob.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 30, 2014, 08:45:59 pm
Now you can kill him with one blow, before with 2, if, of course, not be a noob.

lol :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on May 30, 2014, 08:55:55 pm
me and hate more were just practicing this on eu3, me with 7ps, 140 pole wpf, +3 red tassel, he charged at me full speed on a flat plain and i tried to kill him, took me

9 hits for a +3 plated charger
7 hits for a +3 cataphract
6 hits for a +3 charger
3 hits for a +3 arabian warhorse

remember hate more has 10 riding skill meaning he goes very fast and it increases the damage i did to him
this is all after the armour and hp of most of these horses was significantly nerfed as well

with my 57 body armour and 46 head armour i am regularly one shot killed by cavalry

this patch was a very necessary change.
ha NOOOB
how you dont know weak spots
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: lienlook on May 30, 2014, 09:04:46 pm
By the way, not sure if this was mentioned before but you broke siege.
3 maps in a row with 3-0 for attackers.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 30, 2014, 09:40:09 pm
By the way, not sure if this was mentioned before but you broke siege.
3 maps in a row with 3-0 for attackers.
Thats a bug that was fixed this morning. We're waiting on a few things for the hotfix.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thranduil on May 30, 2014, 10:21:07 pm
Not sure if this has been asked, but if I may divert the attention away from cav and riding for just a moment - are the weapon proficiency bonus points working properly? I have a bonus in both 1h and polearm for an alt of mine, (153 and 156 respectively) but in game they are the value without the bonus (134 and 137 respectively) and it does feel like I have 134~137 wpf as opposed to 153~156. Is it just me feeling a little slow or are those bonus points not working for me in game?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: rustyspoon on May 30, 2014, 10:30:02 pm
Every once in a while I'll spec into cav, but I definitely consider myself an infantry player (when I actually play this game anymore).

That being said, the changes to cav went way, way overboard. It's like you came across a dirty window and your solution to fix it was hit it with a sledgehammer.

Originally, this was a game about choice and fun. Now it just keeps getting diluted down and the variety of builds just keeps getting reduced. I never thought cav was a problem. The one thing that cav is REALLY good at, is killing idiots and rambos who charge in without paying attention. Cav is pretty easy to avoid or kill if they're coming at you. A lot of people in this thread complaining that armored horses were OP seem to have no idea how to combat cav. They complain that once they stop the cav, hitting it with their tiny, no-speed-bonus weapon takes a million hits to kill it. Well, it is an armored horse. Why not, I dunno hit the rider instead? You know, the guy with less armor & hp? Or, when the horse is running at you, hit it in the legs which will 1-shot a hell of a lot of horses.

Adjusting armor, hp values or even difficulty by a point or two is totally reasonable. Changing the difficulty by 3(!) skill points is not. Especially since you need 9(!) attribute points to make up that difference. I think the 3 point attribute reset just adds insult to injury.

All this patch really does is dramatically reduce the amount of heavy cav on the field, which is a real shame. There goes even more variety. So what if it was easy for heavy cav to kill idiots? That person's 10:1 kdr doesn't mean a damn thing to me. The reduction of variety, viable builds & the unending grind just makes me play this game less and less. I miss the good 'ole days. Sure it was unbalanced as fuck, but my god was it fun.



Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 30, 2014, 10:47:17 pm
[Logical argument that brings up great points]

Exactly... c-rpg first attracted me because you were promised you could "be any class you want." Arguably you still can, but with limited efficiency. The amount of viable builds has only decreased over the years. Yes, things like a flamberge-in-your-back-pocket archer aren't exactly fair classes for everyone else, so the slot addition was a necessary change. However, something like this is simply uncalled for. I for one am thinking of changing my cav alt (first and only cav character I've ever made) into a pure shielder after this patch, and the difficulty of my horse only went up by one. That said, I simply don't want to run around with only 15 strength as a 1hander as I prefer to be as effective in ground combat as possible since I get bored on horseback real fast. I've only ever done a minimum of 18 str on a pure shielder since 1handers typically do shit damage. Being only level 30, I'm not a high enough level where I can crutch on high speed bonus either. What to do... what to do...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 30, 2014, 11:02:10 pm
Exactly... c-rpg first attracted me because you were promised you could "be any class you want." Arguably you still can, but with limited efficiency. The amount of viable builds has only decreased over the years. Yes, things like a flamberge-in-your-back-pocket archer aren't exactly fair classes for everyone else, so the slot addition was a necessary change. However, something like this is simply uncalled for. I for one am thinking of changing my cav alt (first and only cav character I've ever made) into a pure shielder after this patch, and the difficulty of my horse only went up by one. That said, I simply don't want to run around with only 15 strength as a 1hander as I prefer to be as effective in ground combat as possible since I get bored on horseback real fast. I've only ever done a minimum of 18 str on a pure shielder since 1handers typically do shit damage. Being only level 30, I'm not a high enough level where I can crutch on high speed bonus either. What to do... what to do...

being able to play any class is great

but as "Mr. X" said so beautifully in the balance thread, playing cavalry [before the patch], is like playing a regular infantry, who has just got a couple more levels and put the points into "riding"

there is no reason not to do this; even if you just run around at the start of the map on a mamluk holding up your shield and bumping people, then dismounting when your horse is at half hp, you'd still get more kills than if you did the same build but as pure infantry.

the way the patch has changed it now, you're either specced as a cavalry player, or you're specced as an infantry player. not as an infantry who can ride a horse, like it was pre-patch -_-.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: rustyspoon on May 30, 2014, 11:11:06 pm
being able to play any class is great

but as "Mr. X" said so beautifully in the balance thread, playing cavalry [before the patch], is like playing a regular infantry, who has just got a couple more levels and put the points into "riding"

there is no reason not to do this; even if you just run around at the start of the map on a mamluk holding up your shield and bumping people, then dismounting when your horse is at half hp, you'd still get more kills than if you did the same build but as pure infantry.

the way the patch has changed it now, you're either specced as a cavalry player, or you're specced as an infantry player. not as an infantry who can ride a horse, like it was pre-patch -_-.

Hybrids are terrible and are the scourge of this game alright. I mean, how horrible is it to have variety? I propose that if someone equips a bow, they can no longer equip any melee weapon. Then they will be specced as a ranged player. Not a ranged player who can use a sword. See why your argument is dumb?

Cav are a counter to people who are dumb and people who ignore teamwork. They are terribly easy to avoid. And your gleeful cackles about reducing variety in this mod makes me think you won't be happy until it is reduced to the point where it resembles pong.

Cav only get a lot of kills when the other team ignore them. As a dedicated infantry player, I've always considered cav doing well having more to do with the opposing team being terrible rather than the cav doing well.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on May 30, 2014, 11:14:01 pm
being able to play any class is great

but as "Mr. X" said so beautifully in the balance thread, playing cavalry [before the patch], is like playing a regular infantry, who has just got a couple more levels and put the points into "riding"

there is no reason not to do this; even if you just run around at the start of the map on a mamluk holding up your shield and bumping people, then dismounting when your horse is at half hp, you'd still get more kills than if you did the same build but as pure infantry.

the way the patch has changed it now, you're either specced as a cavalry player, or you're specced as an infantry player. not as an infantry who can ride a horse, like it was pre-patch -_-.
you have potential to be politician
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on May 30, 2014, 11:15:48 pm
i think capping the high end difficulty requirement at 7 would alleviate a lot of these issues (without lowering everything else at the same time). 8 might be asking a bit too much in altering a build to be able to ride a certain horse, but 7 is right in the sweet spot of or near average builds that could choose to put their points into cav over other things if that's what they wanna do. but at least it would still be a choice that'd have to be made, to specialize more into cav or not. as well as less of a fucking over of people getting only 3 points back when now they're already owned horse might need more than that to use.

but i do like that most of them now take at least 6 cav skill, hell i'd even like to see the lesser requirement ones raised another +1

and yes, i have an 18/21 build. coulda chosen to respec into 15/24 with the skill refund to be able to ride em all, but i'm not interested in riding em all, i have my horses and am happy with those.

oh and for people complaining about lack of variety, make an alt
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 30, 2014, 11:31:43 pm
Am I the only one who thinks riding requerement increase led to increased variety?
Before we had everyone with the same type of builds - take an infantry lvl 30 build, add riding on higher lvls.
Now if someone is an infantry, - he's fast on foot but can't use a horse. If someone is a cav - he's fast on horseback but slow on foot.
Cavalry and infantry are now different classes - that's what I call variety.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Devestater on May 30, 2014, 11:54:45 pm
You're right. I've never once tried to convince anyone that the flamberge is actually OP, especially in comparison to the Glaive. I realize you don't sit in the chaos TS, so you're simply not in touch with the people I converse with, but not making assumptions about things that really can easily be debunked from several angles, might be a good thing to start practicing.

One reason we have an Item Balance TEAM, is specifically for reasons like this. While I may not play a lot of cav, both Gurnisson and San do. So I don't see how you could think "bias" is the cause of the recent patch changes.
*NOTE* I am using my situation as an example because I know that there are more of you out there, especially higher levels that are facing the same problem. Don't take this as a selfish discussion. I think I am pointing out some obvious unfair issues with this patch.

Look, I have dealt with the nerfs before; my +3 warhammer, steel pick, huscarls shield.... All things that countered 2h with speed with the penalty of reach, or coverage with the disadvantage of weight. But they keep getting nerfed until they are about useless.. (mainly huscarls). Oh.... almost forgot about strength builds as well. But I have not spoke up until now because I accepted that it happened and it was small enough that I could deal with it.
However this nerf has taken it too far because not only are you making my +3 horse useless to me, but you are also messing up my build that took a long time to create. I am lv. 34 right at 60 mil left to 35 (I took a break for a while...) where my build would have been complete. The upkeep for cav has made me about broke... So I really do hope you see my point in this argument. I was coming back to the game, but if this is all I have to look forward to.... seems like 4 years wasted. Because I would either be stuck with a half ass build or forced to retire (which is not going to happen).

All I am asking for is at least a full respec so that I may choose whether I want to be cav or foot.
A loom respec on the horse would make the decision easier for me... (back to foot for sure)  but I am not going to push that issue because the respec is more important.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: MURDERTRON on May 31, 2014, 12:16:40 am
*NOTE* I am using my situation as an example because I know that there are more of you out there, especially higher levels that are facing the same problem. Don't take this as a selfish discussion. I think I am pointing out some obvious unfair issues with this patch.

Look, I have dealt with the nerfs before; my +3 warhammer, steel pick, huscarls shield.... All things that countered 2h with speed with the penalty of reach, or coverage with the disadvantage of weight. But they keep getting nerfed until they are about useless.. (mainly huscarls). I have not spoke up until now because I accepted that it happened and it was small enough that I could deal with it.
However this nerf has taken it too far because not only are you making my +3 horse useless to me, but you are also messing up my build that took a long time to create. I am lv. 34 right at 60 mil left to 35 (I took a break for a while...) where my build would have been complete. The upkeep for cav has made me about broke... So I really do hope you see my point in this argument. I was coming back to the game, but if this is all I have to look forward to.... seems like 4 years wasted. Because I would either be stuck with a half ass build or forced to retire (which is not going to happen).

All I am asking for is at least a full respec so that I may choose whether I want to be cav or foot.
A loom respec on the horse would make the decision easier for me... (back to foot for sure)  but I am not going to push that issue because the respec is more important.


Devastated.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tovi on May 31, 2014, 12:55:38 am
Mount is dead.


still no fix for colored hood ?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Molly on May 31, 2014, 12:59:54 am
Am I the only one who thinks riding requerement increase led to increased variety?
Before we had everyone with the same type of builds - take an infantry lvl 30 build, add riding on higher lvls.
Now if someone is an infantry, - he's fast on foot but can't use a horse. If someone is a cav - he's fast on horseback but slow on foot.
Cavalry and infantry are now different classes - that's what I call variety.
This.
Especially strength builds on plated chargers with 2h were just silly.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: polkafranzi on May 31, 2014, 01:07:42 am
Variety lol...

It's been 2 days right, so people have decided what they wanna be...take a look at eu1..trololo
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: pepejul on May 31, 2014, 01:14:05 am
PEPE NEEDS MOAR POLES !!!!

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GUISARME :
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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: pepejul on May 31, 2014, 01:21:07 am
http://chevalierspourpres.forum-actif.net/t721-les-armes-d-hast

FOR MODEL MAKERS :

http://colt.enix.org/Colt/Catalogue-Armes/Cat-Arme-d%27Hast.htm
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: pepejul on May 31, 2014, 01:25:52 am
NUNTI NINJA HAST : visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 31, 2014, 01:50:55 am
Am I the only one who thinks riding requerement increase led to increased variety?
Before we had everyone with the same type of builds - take an infantry lvl 30 build, add riding on higher lvls.
Now if someone is an infantry, - he's fast on foot but can't use a horse. If someone is a cav - he's fast on horseback but slow on foot.
Cavalry and infantry are now different classes - that's what I call variety.

good man, this man

exactly what i'm trying to say
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: rustyspoon on May 31, 2014, 02:01:43 am
Am I the only one who thinks riding requerement increase led to increased variety?
Before we had everyone with the same type of builds - take an infantry lvl 30 build, add riding on higher lvls.
Now if someone is an infantry, - he's fast on foot but can't use a horse. If someone is a cav - he's fast on horseback but slow on foot.
Cavalry and infantry are now different classes - that's what I call variety.

Except...not really. There are a lot of 21/18 builds. I'm guessing that number will increase. Those people can still be great on foot and on cav. You'll just see less variety in horses. At level 30 with 6 riding, you can ride a Courser, Destrier, Barded Warhorse or Padded Warhorse. All good choices. I doubt that there will be many dedicated cav who go to 15/24 builds, because balanced builds are soooo much better. A few may just for shits and giggles, but I think the variety of the heavier horses will be used mainly by HA's and HX's.

This didn't affect cav/infantry hyrbids at all. It just reduced the amount of horses you'll see used.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tydeus on May 31, 2014, 03:03:21 am
Except...not really. There are a lot of 21/18 builds. I'm guessing that number will increase. Those people can still be great on foot and on cav. You'll just see less variety in horses. At level 30 with 6 riding, you can ride a Courser, Destrier, Barded Warhorse or Padded Warhorse. All good choices. I doubt that there will be many dedicated cav who go to 15/24 builds, because balanced builds are soooo much better. A few may just for shits and giggles, but I think the variety of the heavier horses will be used mainly by HA's and HX's.

This didn't affect cav/infantry hyrbids at all. It just reduced the amount of horses you'll see used.
Previously the only thing you saw on NA was heavy cav, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. The only time you saw other types of cav on eu from what I noticed, was when there were so many cav on the field that anything you spawned with already had unusually high survivability, simply due to the fact that there were so many other targets. That's a pretty damn artificial case of "variety" to me.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 31, 2014, 03:16:15 am
Previously the only thing you saw on NA was heavy cav

Sure, just turn a blind eye to the worst type of cav, the courser lancer.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 31, 2014, 03:34:34 am
Maybe 8 was too large of a change, but I had my doubts about the maximum damage from charge with the increased speed. I spent the last few months playing all types of agility cav to make sure that such builds designed around high riding were still viable. Respec could have been handled differently, but at the time I was thinking that -9str and riding refund would've been too much. Could have just not refunded the riding skill.

I think the biggest problem right now is 0 leg armor for the horse. It makes sense realistically, but I think it should be a % of armor, not fully reduced to 0. Hopefully, the armor for the legs can be changed to the amount of armor on the horse / 2 or 1.5 or something. The intent is to increase the minimum # of hits to kill the horses (0 leg armor change, higher HP) while reducing the maximum number of hits (base armor on the horse). Many of the changes were internal so war horse doesn't have as much charge as large war horse, the very maneuverable horses have less charge than the horses that are centered on speed, and that there are no horses that are excellent at absolutely everything.

Hybridization as a whole is easier. Even 0 riding isn't *too* bad for pure melee, and many of the cheaper horses stats aren't inferior enough to never really use them when compared to those above.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 31, 2014, 03:40:22 am
Even 0 riding isn't *too* bad for pure melee


 :?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: MURDERTRON on May 31, 2014, 03:41:40 am
Why does jumping negate almost all of the bump damage?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on May 31, 2014, 03:43:35 am
You can have some fun with it is what I was getting at. It's not unplayable.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on May 31, 2014, 03:49:12 am
Oh, I thought you meant 0 riding was good for pure melee infantry (guess you meant melee cavalry), which is why I was confused. To me melee = 1h/2h/polearm (infantry), ranged = crossbow/archer/thrower (on foot), and cav = 1h/2h/lancer/HA/HX. Nevermind then.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: rustyspoon on May 31, 2014, 04:58:50 am
Previously the only thing you saw on NA was heavy cav, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. The only time you saw other types of cav on eu from what I noticed, was when there were so many cav on the field that anything you spawned with already had unusually high survivability, simply due to the fact that there were so many other targets. That's a pretty damn artificial case of "variety" to me.

So we go from lots of heavy cav to pretty much no heavy cav? Not much of a change, really. 8 riding skill is a point that hardly anyone goes to.

Instead of dropping all the heavy cav at 7 or 8 riding skill, they could be spread out like the lighter horses. You could have a 5 skill heavy cav, but just make it slow and turn like a bus. Then drop one at 6, 7, 8 whatever. It gives players more options instead of, "if you want to ride this horse you must have this build." Or, lower the stats on all horses and give larger increases with higher ride skill. Again, it gives players more options.

I like all the changes done to light cav, but with heavy cav...going from servers full of heavy cav to servers with no heavy cav isn't really a fix.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on May 31, 2014, 06:24:16 am
firstly, upkeep under no circumstances should affect the balance of the game; at this point in crpg many players have basically unlimited money, and especially with the valour system, many of the better players have nearly permanent x5's.

secondly, a war horse is a medium horse, and has significantly weaker stats than the mamluk horse, with it dieing in 3-4 hits "no matter which weapon", the mamluk dies in 6-8 hits "no matter which weapon".

this was a big problem, considering that it's taking me ~4-5 hits to kill a medium horse and ~8+ hits to kill a heavy horse, whilst they 1 shot kill everyone else because of their combined high strength and the damage done by ACS/2h weapons/lances from horseback (they almost always hit you in the head, + speed bonus, + high powerstrike from strength-based cavalry).

new patch was direly needed.

let's just go to eu3 and test it
If we all have infinite money and upkeep shouldn't be used for balance can we make heavy horses cost as much as a 2h, I only have 23k left :(

Previously the only thing you saw on NA was heavy cav, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. The only time you saw other types of cav on eu from what I noticed, was when there were so many cav on the field that anything you spawned with already had unusually high survivability, simply due to the fact that there were so many other targets. That's a pretty damn artificial case of "variety" to me.
Sure, just turn a blind eye to the worst type of cav, the courser lancer.  :rolleyes:
I don't understand how one believes that heavy cav was the only cav. If you combined the number of Arabian and Courser cav players they would usually far exceed the number of heavy cav. On top of that the most exploitable cav build was the Brian Poopers style Arabian speed racer practice lance build rather than heavy cav.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on May 31, 2014, 06:33:11 am
So we go from lots of heavy cav to pretty much no heavy cav?

this hasn't been my experience. seems well balanced now far as i've seen, at least on na1.

but i still think 8 is too high and 6-7 should be where all cav fall (and 5 for a couple really low end ones, not counting donkey)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Falka on May 31, 2014, 06:53:01 am
Well, it is an armored horse. Why not, I dunno hit the rider instead? You know, the guy with less armor & hp?

Not possible when he has a shield.

All "serious" classes should have more or less similar potential to collect kills, which in regard to heavy cav just wasn't the case. Heavy cav lets player get much, much higher KDR than any other class. In melee department 2h swords have probably highest KDR potential, but the difference isn't that huge as in the case of heavy cav. From what I've heard San is one of the best NA shielders and he has what, 3,5 kdr with his lvl 36?

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on May 31, 2014, 08:38:16 am
I like all the changes done to light cav, but with heavy cav...going from servers full of heavy cav to servers with no heavy cav isn't really a fix.
Just wait a month, they will come back.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kartoffel_Salat on May 31, 2014, 09:33:01 am
The thing is, if you aren't a high level, you can't have more then 15 strength for heavy cav. You HAVE to be an agi build to be heavy cav. Which is bullshit.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sagar on May 31, 2014, 10:10:55 am
Great patch, very good common sense changes to heavy cav. Before patch it was so easy - full str and full heavy armor and heavy horse.
Now when devs making a good steps to improve and make this mod better, all we are waiting is next step to raise difficulty level for all weapons and armors.
This will bring more balance between str and agy builds.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on May 31, 2014, 11:12:29 am

:lol:

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 :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mendro on May 31, 2014, 01:30:32 pm
:lol:

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 :lol:

"Slots : 1"
"Slots : 2"


But this change for throwing lance is not good. Server are full of trololo throwers with throwing lance. A lot of them are just throwing stupidly into the melee, then running around to find some ammo and do it again.
Yes is a way to play throwing, but a retard one. Now everybody complaining about thrower and I understand why.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on May 31, 2014, 04:19:23 pm
you have potential to be politician
no one ask me why I think soo....

so here is my respond

because politician talk shit
and most of the time about stuffs that they dont understand


for example:
respond to Corsair
Now you can kill him with one blow, before with 2, if, of course, not be a noob.

respond from Corsair
lol :P



Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: SayAttack on May 31, 2014, 05:25:59 pm
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo on May 31, 2014, 06:09:28 pm
Haven't played in a while, but thank god for the Eastern Warhorse nerf.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: MURDERTRON on May 31, 2014, 06:35:31 pm
Corsair is a notorious s-keyer and is probably jumping backwards whenever a horse comes at him.  Just saying.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on May 31, 2014, 07:23:29 pm
no one ask me why I think soo....

so here is my respond

because politician talk shit
and most of the thime abot stuffs that they dont understand


for example:
respond to Corsair
respond from Corsair

i do like this guy already

Haven't played in a while, but thank god for the Eastern Warhorse nerf.
sounds like a reverence for me
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on May 31, 2014, 07:42:45 pm
So we go from lots of heavy cav to pretty much no heavy cav? Not much of a change, really. 8 riding skill is a point that hardly anyone goes to.

Instead of dropping all the heavy cav at 7 or 8 riding skill, they could be spread out like the lighter horses. You could have a 5 skill heavy cav, but just make it slow and turn like a bus. Then drop one at 6, 7, 8 whatever. It gives players more options instead of, "if you want to ride this horse you must have this build." Or, lower the stats on all horses and give larger increases with higher ride skill. Again, it gives players more options.

I like all the changes done to light cav, but with heavy cav...going from servers full of heavy cav to servers with no heavy cav isn't really a fix.

wait a couple of months till people have got used to the new builds

we will have lots of 15/24 heavy cav in no time
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 31, 2014, 08:30:54 pm
gg crpg i could have spent all that time playing crpg, but thanks to cav fuck up

(click to show/hide)
P.S. i didnt even play on 27th may , no idea why i got 1,2 mil xp that day.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on May 31, 2014, 08:38:07 pm
crpg staff should take on a dedicated tears collector, wouldn't take long after every patch to acquire enough to end world thirst (having accounted for desalination and purification)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on May 31, 2014, 08:54:53 pm
crpg staff should take on a dedicated tears collector, wouldn't take long after every patch to acquire enough to end world thirst (having accounted for desalination and purification)
they should destroy your calss and than we will see waht you say about that. Lets say youa re 2h hero using danish GS and they raise str requirements to 30 and you had 15 24but hey, they gave you back 3 str as partial respec.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on May 31, 2014, 09:00:41 pm
they could never destroy the "balanced", "average" classes of 21/18 - 18/21, so I have nothing to worry about

but hang on.... hold still just one sec...... just..... ah there we go, added to collection. thanks for keeping the thirsty world quenched!

(but i do sympathize with the bad partial respec, that doesn't seem fair in any way and has left enough people with seemingly no recourse)

*gulp gulp gulp* aaaahhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 31, 2014, 09:08:00 pm
they could never destroy the "balanced", "average" classes of 21/18 - 18/21, so I have nothing to worry about

but hang on.... hold still just one sec...... just..... ah there we go, added to collection. thanks for keeping the thirsty world quenched!

(but i do sympathize with the bad partial respec, that doesn't seem fair in any way and has left enough people with seemingly no recourse)

*gulp gulp gulp* aaaahhhhhhhhh

Somebody is really trying hard to be a dick. Why dont you suffocate on those tears my dear.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on May 31, 2014, 09:10:31 pm
i believe i would have to drown on them, unless you want to be a sweetheart and evaporate them for me? they maybe, just maybe i can accommodate your wish.

see it comes easy to me, don't have to try hard is what i'm saying
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Phew on May 31, 2014, 10:31:43 pm
The only reason I don't like the heavy cav nerf is that it will force even more people to respec to 18/24, which was already the most powerful build.

I never thought I'd say this, but I miss all the strength 2h heroes in heavy armor. Since the smaller sweetspot change, they are actually one of the easier classes to fight. But I feel like the masses are gravitating toward agility polearm builds in medium armor, which are really hard to fight.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Tovi on June 01, 2014, 02:07:07 am
Difficulty level 8 is just retarded. I never felt worried with heavy cav before.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 01, 2014, 07:55:29 am
"Slots : 1"
"Slots : 2"

so the only difference you see is the slots?

(click to show/hide)

would be awesome to see the old default throwing lance next to these other two pictures of the current throwing lance and the HTA. good laugh. +1000 effort, -1100 idea

Server are full of trololo throwers with throwing lance. A lot of them are just throwing stupidly into the melee, then running around to find some ammo and do it again.
Yes is a way to play throwing, but a retard one. Now everybody complaining about thrower and I understand why.

i think it is fun to play like this. not going to change :)

server is full of trololo duelists with a high damage weapon. a lot of them are just running around 70% duration of the round, hiding and/or doing the retarded dance to dodge enemy projectiles (imagine that IRL  :lol: ). when they hidden for 70% of the time, they crawl out from under their stone swinging randomly into melee and getting valour.
yes is a way to play 2h/polearm, but a retard one.

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on June 01, 2014, 08:19:29 am
I never thought I'd say this, but I miss all the strength 2h heroes in heavy armor. Since the smaller sweetspot change, they are actually one of the easier classes to fight.

You would think that, but after fighting tretter yesterday on conquest I can safely say that the 'sweet spot change' has barely, if at all, affected str 2handers. I can still stand behind him and get hit for full damage on a sideswing.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Angantyr on June 01, 2014, 11:33:03 am
Why this hesitation to give people free or cheap respecs - after patches and otherwise?

Though the most popular modules have some degree of character progression, grind has never been necessary to keep people invested in this series. It is the combat system most of us are addicted to.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Soulreaver on June 01, 2014, 12:07:37 pm
(click to show/hide)
looks like attack side has great advantages now, when low population
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: kwhy on June 01, 2014, 02:42:15 pm
(click to show/hide)
looks like attack side has great advantages now, when low population

NA2 has been really struggling just to get 8 peeps on each night the past 1-2 months and now the timer reverted back to how it used to be just killed any chance of low population servers staying alive. The defense timer is just way too long with low population now that it has been reverted back to how it used to be.  I don't get the reason for the change unless it has to do with conflicting conquest maps, but it just doesn't seem to work when the player counts are this low.

Last night on NA2 the only reason peeps seemed to stay on was in hopes to try out the new conquest mode.  It is a shame to see long time siege players actually say they are going back to play Battle ONLY after a few map rotations.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Fips on June 01, 2014, 03:10:14 pm
It's a bug. Was supposed to be for the siege beta, which is conquest mode.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Pandemona on June 01, 2014, 03:12:59 pm
Why this hesitation to give people free or cheap respecs - after patches and otherwise?

Though the most popular modules have some degree of character progression, grind has never been necessary to keep people invested in this series. It is the combat system most of us are addicted to.


I don't get it either, why making us lose tons of exp when we respec.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on June 01, 2014, 04:13:51 pm
Why this hesitation to give people free or cheap respecs - after patches and otherwise?

Though the most popular modules have some degree of character progression, grind has never been necessary to keep people invested in this series. It is the combat system most of us are addicted to.
indeed  http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/petition/msg1013814/#msg1013814
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on June 01, 2014, 06:30:58 pm
they should destroy your calss and than we will see waht you say about that. Lets say youa re 2h hero using danish GS and they raise str requirements to 30 and you had 15 24but hey, they gave you back 3 str as partial respec.

dude, your class was frickin ridiculous, you were like 40 strength on the back of a plated charger one shot killing everything and taking 14 hits to die yourself -_-

just accept that they've disabled your superman status and play a vaguely 'fair' class -_-
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on June 01, 2014, 07:02:39 pm
dude, your class was frickin ridiculous, you were like 40 strength on the back of a plated charger one shot killing everything and taking 14 hits to die yourself -_-

just accept that they've disabled your superman status and play a vaguely 'fair' class -_-
ye fuck my old class now i want free respec because my build now is fucked up, i have to waste points to make it playable. or if i want to stay cav i need compleatly redo my build.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Joseph Porta on June 01, 2014, 08:57:22 pm
i dont want another horse i want my plated hippozaur

This love story, so good! Im so touched in my feels  :cry: gief potato charger nao
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on June 01, 2014, 09:12:30 pm
STRONG MAN CRY STRONG TEARS
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Ronin on June 02, 2014, 10:11:30 am
This patch doesn't balance anything, it just messes up with people builds since they can't use their equipment.

Think of it this way:

-15/24 build, possible for level 30. 15 allows nearly every armor to be used.
-8 riding gives better manuever and speed for the horse, it was already more powerful than 5 riding.
-If you're not playing siege, it's not really that important for cav to get athletics. It is still possible to fight on foot after being dismounted. (If I can fight with 2 quivers, 0 ath and 3 ps on foot so can everyone)
-Hitting hard is not that hard as a cavalry, making power strike/STR less important.

Gothic plate + plated charger + 8 riding = Good luck


You just encouraged people to use a more stronger build. It will only take them time/gold to achieve it, nothing more.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 02, 2014, 10:47:45 am
You just encouraged people to use a more stronger build. It will only take them time/gold to achieve it, nothing more.

I don't think so. If agi builds were better with heavy horses, people would have it figured out long time ago.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Molly on June 02, 2014, 10:57:17 am
dude, your class was frickin ridiculous, you were like 40 strength on the back of a plated charger one shot killing everything and taking 14 hits to die yourself -_-

just accept that they've disabled your superman status and play a vaguely 'fair' class -_-
I approve this message.

It was silly at times. Having that kind of build is like having 2 lifes on the server instead of one.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Ronin on June 02, 2014, 11:23:35 am
I don't think so. If agi builds were better with heavy horses, people would have it figured out long time ago.
It comes down to playstyle mostly. STR doesn't make your horse better, but AGI does. I still think the most important stat for a horseman is riding. Cavalry differs from infantry in philosophy. Infantry relies on fighting head on with raw power mostly, cavalry relies on good manuever in the battlefield.

Don't get me wrong, some elite tier players prefer STR over AGI. But everything that can be done with high STR can also be done with high AGI, even if it takes a longer time sometimes. But the opposite is not exclusively true. People who wanted to have some athletics preferred to get more STR mostly (less points needed for both riding and athletics, easier to maximize the usefulness of attributes).


Also keep this in mind: Bump is one of the greatest weapons in the arsenal of a cavalry. STR doesn't improve it, but AGI does.


While theoretically this all is 100% true, the last part is practically impossible for some peole without destroying their whole character/build by retiring or respeccing a level 33, 34 or even 35 char they don't want to retire or respec.

Thats the whole point here for some people.
Exactly my point: "It will only take them time/gold to achieve it, nothing more."
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 02, 2014, 05:34:12 pm
hope they will understood what did they done.

anyways, if the official version is "too many full str heavycav" it's false.

i know like 5 guys includin me who used 24\15.
most of cav are 18-21, 21-18, there even do exists 21-15.

so... they nerfed 5 guys. good job.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on June 02, 2014, 09:14:41 pm
I was 24/15 and since I got 3 points back I tried 21/18 with 6 riding. To be honest in comparison to pre-patch it totally sucks for me personally. I would really like to go infantry instead of cav. Any chance I can get rid of these 6 riding point or something like that?

Would be great
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on June 02, 2014, 10:45:33 pm
hope they will understood what did they done.

anyways, if the official version is "too many full str heavycav" it's false.

i know like 5 guys includin me who used 24\15.
most of cav are 18-21, 21-18, there even do exists 21-15.

so... they nerfed 5 guys. good job.

that's BS, there's at least 34 of them in this thread complaining about it
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Phew on June 03, 2014, 03:06:15 am
You would think that, but after fighting tretter yesterday on conquest I can safely say that the 'sweet spot change' has barely, if at all, affected str 2handers. I can still stand behind him and get hit for full damage on a sideswing.

Tretter is just good, regardless of sweetspots.

I was referring to the recent influx of mediocre str 2h players with poor blocking skills, and they are mostly a low-risk proposition to fight, because they aren't going to outmaneuver you. However, mediocre agility polearmers are still a huge threat to me, because my only options when they start S-keying are 1) stand still (I don't have the discipline for this) or 2) give chase and try to outreach them (this often ends poorly for me). Stabs from agility polearmers do more damage that str 2h sword swings also.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Jona on June 03, 2014, 04:28:03 am
We must be playing 2 different versions of crpg... normally I agree with almost everything you say Phew, but not so much this time.

Tretter is just good

Well, I guess it takes a certain skill to be able to blindly leftswing people who are 170-180 degrees behind you. :rolleyes: I could never understand why people would consider someone who uses this tactic (or constant lolstabbing, which he is also guilty of) skilled, or why people consider 2h not OP so long as it can pull off this kind of shit and polearms glance so often on sideswings now. Tretter no doubt has been around long enough to be able to be good, but he simply resorts to the dumbest shit each and every time I fight him.

I was referring to the recent influx of mediocre str 2h players with poor blocking skills, and they are mostly a low-risk proposition to fight, because they aren't going to outmaneuver you. However, mediocre agility polearmers are still a huge threat to me, because my only options when they start S-keying are 1) stand still (I don't have the discipline for this) or 2) give chase and try to outreach them (this often ends poorly for me). Stabs from agility polearmers do more damage that str 2h sword swings also.

A stab from an agi whore will never do much if they are skeying you. They have to be at least competent enough to know that they need to W key into a stab, in which case I wouldn't really consider them bad (imo mediocre = bad nowadays... we have all been around too long to simply be 'mediocre' players still. Mediocre imo is 90% of native players). I will agree though, that speed bonus on stabs is really a huge problem. The bonus for slashes, not so much... but stabs, yes (although without it my poor long axe stab would literally always glance... oh well, I could deal with that).  Also, 2h str stabs are worse than any agi polearm stab imo. They last so long, can hit really early or late in the animation, can easily aim it, it homes in on  your head... the list goes on and on.

Also, to stop an S-keyer the best thing to do is to S-key for a second or so yourself, that always makes them go "whoa, he's running from me, awww yeah, I can do this!" At which point they run forwards, as should you, and before he realizes his mistake you have already cut him down. If he is 'good' enough to be able to survive your onslaught, well, he's not worth your time. Any time I fight a chronic S-keyer I always just turn my attention to someone else and let my teammates chase him. If no one else is around, turn and walk away, keeping an eye on him, then 180 when he thinks he has you. It is still a boring tactic for sure, but really no one wins when someone S-keys, so it's the best you can do in such a lose-lose situation, imo.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 03, 2014, 11:31:26 am
when mounted you can swing a sword pretty much exactly like you wish. however, wearing plate armor while mounted logically impair your agility ALOT....... just not in crpg  :lol:

jumping tincans
mounted tincans
sprinting tincans
kicking nudging brawling tincans

is there any reason not to wear plate???  :lol:

(click to show/hide)
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/07/15/rspb.2011.0816
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Angantyr on June 03, 2014, 12:15:08 pm
jumping tincans
mounted tincans
sprinting tincans
kicking nudging brawling tincans
All of this is quite possible in full plate, even somersaulting  :) cRPG heavy armor is much weaker than real life armor, both in terms of mobility and protection. But yes, the experiment you're referring to demonstrates that you'd tire quickly, of course, but not much more than a modern fully-geared combat soldier.

Pretty illuminating video:
How to Mount a Horse in Armor and Other Chivalric Problems (Metropolitan Museum of Art) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC_squo6X4)



Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 03, 2014, 12:20:54 pm
sure i guess, but point was there is no breathing and stamina in crpg. its kind of broken cos depending what glasses you wear there is few or no downsides using plate armor
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Micah on June 03, 2014, 12:27:30 pm
Good patch =)
I think it was necessary and overdue to touch heavy cav ... particularly heavy 1h-cav.
Lets see how the changes play out on the long run ... Imo, nobody can really normatively predict meta gameplay and balance; It has to be tested or its just a guess.

People should try to play their class and have fun with the game.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 03, 2014, 01:47:24 pm
How is cavalry units that can oneshot stuff a problem ? It's melee cav. You can dodge them, block them or hit them before they hit you. All these things are much easier to do against melee cav than against any other class. And it's especially easy against heavy cav since their moves are telegraphed. Infantry 2h/pole STR builds can also oneshot stuff, and much more regularly than melee cav. Yet that's not a problem for you ? It's much easier to defend yourself against melee footmen and cav as infantry than it is as cavalry. Unless you want to spend the whole round running away. Not to mention that failing to oneshot as cav means you will very rarely get kills. Unlike infantry, you can't stay on target for a second hit as cav, you have to move constantly.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on June 03, 2014, 02:54:37 pm
Ranged players can oneshoot people as well. I do find that a problem though :evil:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 03, 2014, 03:59:08 pm
Ranged players can oneshoot people as well. I do find that a problem though :evil:

You find that a problem because it really is, given current missile speed and draw time tolerance. Shooting stuff is much easier and much less risky than hurling yourself full speed towards a bunch of people that might just murder you in seconds if you are unlucky. Cav gameplay is managing risk beyond your control. The outcome of a move is mostly function of how good the players you are attacking are (and mostly about their situational awareness) and less function of how good you are as rider. As opposed to ranged where only the shooter's skill counts, beyond dodging skill that anybody playing more than three days has mastered. Furthermore, my argument about repeat attacks still stands. It's much easier to attack the same target twice as ranged than as cav.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlueKnight on June 03, 2014, 05:51:48 pm
litelary

Don't know where to start from...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on June 03, 2014, 05:53:03 pm
Don't know where to start from...
wut?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: pepejul on June 03, 2014, 07:25:22 pm
litteraly it is liretaly ?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 03, 2014, 08:16:04 pm
litelary

litteraly it is liretaly ?

lil' italy
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 03, 2014, 10:46:22 pm
You mean figuratively
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on June 03, 2014, 10:54:19 pm
You mean figuratively

that's officially been changed already. language is fluid and means what people use it to mean. don't hang on to your old ways because it makes you feel smarter than. because in this case at least, you're wrong.

literally

then again i have no idea what i'm talking about and you might be referring to something i'm not aware of so fuck me and everything i hold dear
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 03, 2014, 11:34:06 pm
That was actually an xkcd reference but I felt it could stand alone so I just wrote it like that.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Smoothrich on June 04, 2014, 04:22:30 am
lol nice stingy respec for cav

Not bad changes from the looks of it, but 3 STR and your riding as a refund screws over all the 5 riding heavy cav players, since you can only go up 1 more riding skill from your base build. I'm sure much crying has been done already, but its a legitimate complaint.

Doesn't effect me since I was 21/18 medium cav, and would simply have to switch to 18/21 to use a war horse again. But any 24/15 players (very common) will no longer be able to use war horse and above.

Also, the Padded Warhorse (and the other 6 riding War Horses) looks very OP now with internal horse balance. There's not enough difference between them and War Horse to warrant War Horse needing 1 more riding. Should probably buff/nerf accordingly, since there's 0 incentive to get up to 7 riding to use the oldschool War Horse and Large War Horse, two staples of "medium-heavy" cav for the past few years.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: ArysOakheart on June 04, 2014, 09:28:21 am
lol nice stingy respec for cav

Not bad changes from the looks of it, but 3 STR and your riding as a refund screws over all the 5 riding heavy cav players, since you can only go up 1 more riding skill from your base build. I'm sure much crying has been done already, but its a legitimate complaint.

Doesn't effect me since I was 21/18 medium cav, and would simply have to switch to 18/21 to use a war horse again. But any 24/15 players (very common) will no longer be able to use war horse and above.

Also, the Padded Warhorse (and the other 6 riding War Horses) looks very OP now with internal horse balance. There's not enough difference between them and War Horse to warrant War Horse needing 1 more riding. Should probably buff/nerf accordingly, since there's 0 incentive to get up to 7 riding to use the oldschool War Horse and Large War Horse, two staples of "medium-heavy" cav for the past few years.

Are you going to buy another account or quit? That's all I care about.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: DaveUKR on June 05, 2014, 04:45:57 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Supreme_Leader on June 05, 2014, 08:22:57 pm
Buffing already-OP cavalry and throwing was an incredible idea! Bravo Tydeus! What a real human bean.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Teeth on June 05, 2014, 09:49:18 pm
^ See, being an item balancer is not easy if some people hate you for nerfing cav while others hate you for buffing cav when talking about one and the same change.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 05, 2014, 09:53:41 pm
^ See, being an item balancer is not easy if some people hate you for nerfing cav while others hate you for buffing cav when talking about one and the same change.
hahhahahhah fckin LOOOOL  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on June 05, 2014, 09:54:42 pm
^ See, being an item balancer is not easy if some people hate you for nerfing cav while others hate you for buffing cav when talking about one and the same change.
and there are peoples claiming that last cav nerf have done nothing to 1h cav that deserve nerf
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Smoothrich on June 05, 2014, 10:17:44 pm
^ See, being an item balancer is not easy if some people hate you for nerfing cav while others hate you for buffing cav when talking about one and the same change.

Yeah all the empty fury of shitposters and shitplayers pretty much ruin any thread about mechanics or balance at all, I've always thought there should be an invite/application board just for players with good skills or ideas so balancers can have an easier job filtering white noise and getting good feedback.

Also I'd say most of the 6 riding horses are too strong, and the 7 riding horses too weak. So someone who only uses medium or only heavy cav could have a completely different opinion cuz of that, and just fail to express themselves properly (because of being a shitposter)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on June 05, 2014, 10:45:04 pm
I highly value the charge stat and the charge:maneuver ratio, but I do see what you mean when focusing on certain horses' advantages. The 6 difficulty horses (minus courser) are decent at everything, while the higher difficulty horses satisfy more specialized needs. Which horses work better in a direct clash or when making best use of their strengths can be difficult to determine. I personally believe that some difficulties could be lower after looking at it again.

I was unsure how the changes to the top 3 would work out. I still think the heaviest horses should be cheaper, closing the gap between the large warhorse and cataphract a bit more, and cheapen plated charger by another 5k. Using the large warhorse, it feels like it's in a good place price-wise, making money when performing decently. I have a +3 charger that I switch to with a x3 or better to break even, and often times see the gold jump up and down pretty rapidly. It's really fun to play and kill archers with the charge damage, though.

Other than that, it's pretty difficult to have a conversation about the stats when no one really points out what set of stats would work better. Before, we had jumps like 24->34 charge from the padded warhorse to the warhorse, and 47->60 armor for the eastern warhorse to the charger.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: JasonPastman on June 06, 2014, 01:38:35 am
I think you might want to take a look at the riding skill.

Also unfuck riding skill. The problem with horse balance right now is that riding is such a poor skill overall, the only point of it is to get just enough to use whatever horse you want to use. Pretty much like shield skill.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on June 06, 2014, 02:03:11 am
Sure, could look at it. Need to hear from more people with 8-9+ riding skill, though, since my experience with high riding has been largely positive.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Dooz on June 06, 2014, 02:09:18 am
i don't think you're gonna find a lot of people with 8-9+ ride skill...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Lemon_ on June 06, 2014, 02:10:18 am
I play 15/24 on my new char and it works fine. 8 Riding is great and I still have crazy killing power. 1 Shot firebus in duel, with his full loomed plate setup.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 06, 2014, 07:09:23 am
give me 13 mil xp and I'll tell ya
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Joseph Porta on June 06, 2014, 10:24:01 am
Sure, could look at it. Need to hear from more people with 8-9+ riding skill, though, since my experience with high riding has been largely positive.
8 riding is a beast combined with the arab warhorse (+0)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 06, 2014, 04:05:38 pm
how many hp/skill-point do horses get? i reckon its a %?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Mr.K. on June 06, 2014, 06:29:50 pm
I don't think high riding is worth it, but it is more fun, which is why I've played with 12/30 and 15/27 lancer as well as tested a 9/30 2H cav build. None of those are as effective as a more balanced build imo, but they are a ton of fun :mrgreen:

A buff to maneuver and acceleration for higher riding would help. Nerfing the base stat first of course. More speed though - please no, that would be another big buff to horse ranged.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Devestater on June 07, 2014, 04:58:31 am
I just came back to check on this topic... NOTHING of any importance has been talked about. What about US high level guys?! This is complete BS! You F#@%$D us out of our lv. 35 builds you donkyholes!

We would have made different decisions had we known that this would happen. This is complete crap. when devs decide to nerf whatever is hot for the week. Every class/weapon has been nerfed to death over the years that we are pretty much beating eachother with wiffle bats at this point. You guys are trying to make a game??? THAT IS LAUGHABLE!  :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on June 07, 2014, 07:22:32 am
I had gotten wind of a hotfix earlier this week but haven't seen any sign of a release so I thought I'd give my two cents on what it should entail even if it doesn't matter.
  First off the riding requirement change was absolutely extreme, the goal should of been to nerf heavy cav not eliminate it. If you guys were to decrease all riding requirements by one on horses that were adjusted in the last patch it'd be more reasonable.
  Horse archery received and indirect buff which needs correcting. This could be simply done by cutting the benefits of HA skill in half and allowing 1ha skill for every 3 agi. For example 18 agi 6 HA after the patch has the same affect as 18 agi and 3 HA does right now.
  A free respec would be nice too but most of the cav turned in their spurs so it'd have to be for everyone unless you could give it to all the people that got that half ass respec last patch.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: LordLargos on June 07, 2014, 07:58:25 am
I think you might want to take a look at the riding skill.
I kind of have to agree with this. I have 9 riding skip the fun courser cav which is fast but in the grand scheme of things not quite as fast as it should be. In theory I should be able to ride down +3 rouncey horse archers like common chicken theives but can't quite get enough speed or maneuverability to make it worth getting shot to shit trying to get close enough. Also if I get dehorsed and have to use some pleb's horse (weet's unloomed rouncey) I feel like I'm behind the wheel of a city bus.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: pepejul on June 07, 2014, 12:00:11 pm
Rage is so sweet when it isn't yours.... go age moar funny heroes ! Rage moar for pepe !!!!

New patch is good ! PRAISE ADMINS !!!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 07, 2014, 12:02:21 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Porthos on June 07, 2014, 03:00:13 pm
I dont know where to write it, but i'll write here, cos the conquest mod was returned at EU2 with this patch. So, the problem is that if you capturing the castle, and defender/or attackers are getting sick to do their job, they are just GTXting. Defenders are quitting before the last flag is taken, and attackers are quitting if it is clear to everyone that it will never be taken cos their attack side suxx badly. And it leads to the situation, when one team has much more people in their roster than other. In the end of the round, when the flag is taken/or defended - it leads to the message "TEAMS ARE NOT FAIR TO JUSTIFY MULTIPLIER" and the side which was just better than other gets simply nothing. I played today at the helms deep and I was successfully defended it and then successfully captured all flags, but me and my team were have earned simply nothing only because the enemies are QQuitting too much. So i've got it 2 times in a row, winning on different sides during 1 hour with the constant x1 in the end, which is sucks, I think. Make some solution to this like disabling the "fair justify multiplier" or make some other multiplier assignment system. Or just delete the whole conquest and burn it in hell. Thanx!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: J_T_V_Tobi on June 08, 2014, 12:04:02 pm
Thx god for this patch!
My holy stones! I got tears in my eyes, thx admins!
The stones will conquer the world! WAIT FOR IT!!!!!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Uhtred_III_of_Bebbanburg on June 08, 2014, 01:07:05 pm
I would have liked the patch much more, if it was 1.3.3.7
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 08, 2014, 09:38:22 pm
well... okey.
i have same k\d before\after last patch and destrier isn't so bad actually(esp after the patch)

nice patch. enjoy loads of my old friendchers.

P.S.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 08, 2014, 11:29:22 pm
looks like heavy cav wasn't OP, just me is well skilled
Can't be, probably just needs another nerf to balance it out.  :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Devestater on June 11, 2014, 02:43:36 am
I am still crying about my lv. 35 build. I would totally buy a respec if i could afford it. I still havent spent the points, because now I am very limited.  :mad:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Latvian on June 11, 2014, 04:50:15 pm
I am still crying about my lv. 35 build. I would totally buy a respec if i could afford it. I still havent spent the points, because now I am very limited.  :mad:
same situation only lvl 33
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Yuang on June 13, 2014, 04:55:11 am
In CHN servers, the big strength archer has become BUG. Their arrows so accurate, so great hurt. Their numbers so much that a lot of players do not like to play. Next patch, please change about this situation.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: ArysOakheart on June 13, 2014, 09:57:57 am
I am still crying about my lv. 35 build. I would totally buy a respec if i could afford it. I still havent spent the points, because now I am very limited.  :mad:

Poor Devestater can't afford a respec because of the gear he wears. The woes of being a neckbeard.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 13, 2014, 06:30:07 pm
In CHN servers, the big strength archer has become BUG. Their arrows so accurate, so great hurt. Their numbers so much that a lot of players do not like to play. Next patch, please change about this situation.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: bavvoz on June 13, 2014, 08:39:42 pm
Arrows actually do seem to hit hard as arbalests quite often nowdays.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Algarn on June 14, 2014, 11:59:44 am
Isn't it the purpose of that build ? Trading speed (both drawing speed and moving speed), plus wpf in melee, just to get some damage to deal ? Honestly, I'm wrecked anytime by another 18/24 generic build because they draw the bow way faster than I do. And I can't escape from a good shielder, simply not possible, I die in most cases if I'm not supported. Tell me more about strength archers being OP, since they aren't that great (as agi archers tho) on the battlefield. Archers aren't OP as hell, simply, their number are devastating on the population of a server.




please, don't nerf my build I did respec for after a loss of 100 millions of experience.....


Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 15, 2014, 12:10:49 pm
http://forum.worldoftanksxbox360edition.com/index.php?/topic/20198-matchmaking-mechanism-explained/

similar shit going on with crpg. its lame
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thomek on June 15, 2014, 02:41:04 pm
lol why is this lame?? Put's you in a skill bracket that you belong. All major mp games does this.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 15, 2014, 06:18:12 pm
class balance is ok nowadays
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: pepejul on June 15, 2014, 11:05:32 pm
NO CAV ?  :(
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 15, 2014, 11:15:03 pm
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: matt2507 on June 16, 2014, 07:45:54 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Before and after patch...

I still can not figure out why they have so much increased the arabian warhorse upkeep..
The Courser have 48 speed and 40 maneuver, Arabian got 40 speed and 48 maneuver so, why that fucking Arabian costs 10k more ???

If you do not want players using something just remove it instead of fuck the players who use it.

Instead of piss cavs or archers, or any other class that become "op" because of your crappy patch, you'd better set the autobalance and there would have no more teams that have all the cavs and archers against the paysant because it is the only cause of the balancing problem since a long time already.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gurnisson on June 16, 2014, 07:56:14 pm
The Courser have 48 speed and 40 maneuver, Arabian got 40 speed and 48 maneuver so, why that fucking Arabian costs 10k more ???

Maneuver >> Speed
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 16, 2014, 08:31:52 pm
NO CAV ?  :(

sorry, but light cav dyin' with 2-2.5 arrows what means cav got dismounted\killed quite often (sure, if u aren't roleplayin GTX)

If you do not want players using something just remove it instead of fuck the players who use it.

Instead of piss cavs or archers, or any other class that become "op" because of your crappy patch, you'd better set the autobalance and there would have no more teams that have all the cavs and archers against the paysant because it is the only cause of the balancing problem since a long time already.

this
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: matt2507 on June 16, 2014, 10:32:46 pm
Maneuver >> Speed

No, maneuver = speed = resist.

Only nub cavs got fucked by maneuver.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gurnisson on June 16, 2014, 11:10:01 pm
No, maneuver = speed = resist.

Only nub cavs got fucked by maneuver.

Speed only gives you higher max speed and it limits maneuver the higher you get.
Having higher maneuver doesn't limit speed, it boosts acceleration, it makes you able to dodge away much later when you're committed to a charge and it's also used to juke an enemy into releasing his attack to early.

Maneuver is much better. Arabian is a much better horse than the Courser.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: BlueKnight on June 16, 2014, 11:21:48 pm
Maneuver is much better. Arabian is a much better horse than the Courser.
still overpriced...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on June 16, 2014, 11:35:57 pm
Arabian is 25% more durable. With a full 7PD 170wpf archer, a +3 arabian will get 3shot by a longbow and rus bow with tatar arrows. Below that is 4+ without speed bonus or archers with less than a 21/21 build. +4 armor and +17hp isn't enough to tank for the arabian, but will make that first hit less punishing. It's necessary to play carefully once you arrive at the enemy's encampment. ~ +380 upkeep is still profitable.

As for heavier cav, "headshot" on +3 large warhorse
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Emotion on June 16, 2014, 11:42:35 pm
Arabian is 25% more durable. With a full 7PD 170wpf archer, a +3 arabian will get 3shot by a longbow and rus bow with tatar arrows. Below that is 4+ without speed bonus or archers with less than a 21/21 build. +4 armor and +17hp isn't enough to tank for the arabian, but will make that first hit less punishing. It's necessary to play carefully once you arrive at the enemy's encampment. ~ +380 upkeep is still profitable.

As for heavier cav, "headshot" on +3 large warhorse
(click to show/hide)

i like your wooden PC san.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: 722_ on June 16, 2014, 11:54:18 pm

As for heavier cav, "headshot" on +3 large warhorse
(click to show/hide)

Surely the speed bonus would have worked in your favour there if the arrow hit when you where travelling away from the archer?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Smoothrich on June 17, 2014, 02:16:01 am
Horse damage variation from archers is crazy and not really worth posting 1-2 examples of to make a point. I've been playing on Destrier for years and there's been countless times where a non-headshot from halfway across the map while riding away from a ranged player (or at a slight angle) has nearly black barred my horse because the game is random and stupid.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on June 17, 2014, 02:46:38 am
Was just kidding. Horse headboxes are only the nose, so it did the same damage as a body shot.

My computer is mid-tier 2012, but I am so used to playing on super low settings from when I used to play this on a laptop.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on June 17, 2014, 02:29:54 pm
Was just kidding. Horse headboxes are only the nose, so it did the same damage as a body shot.

My computer is mid-tier 2012, but I am so used to playing on super low settings from when I used to play this on a laptop.

this is all very important and all, but let's not forget the main focus of the next patch is the rebalancing of the WAKIZASHI, giving it 3 more cut and 1 more pierce to make it competetive with other weapons.

the other stuff is secondary, remember this

( :D ) hue hue
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 17, 2014, 08:04:40 pm
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isnt this abit "out of context" sort of speak? you cant just toss us stats of your upkeep without also providing experience and pay stats, well you can but its kinda of pointless
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Shaksie on June 18, 2014, 09:02:18 am
One of my biggest problems with this game is that no playstyle apart from being a boring somewhat heavy infantry is viable anymore, and it's getting much worse.
For example, 95% of players in Aus are infantry with nothing else to their build. The other 5% combined are donkey riders, shielders, throwers and archers.
Make cavalry, especially heavy, viable. They are far too expensive, too easy to counter (literally anyone with some common sense and awareness will beat you, I know this from experience of both an infantrynerd and a cavalrynerd) especially with this retarded rearing mechanic.
Make ranged (and it appears everything but being a normal infantryman because of the amount of Q_Q that leads to irrational balancing) less annoying, give them more of an incentive to fight in melee, not an incentive to not fight in melee.
Have some actual balance in weapon classes, I don't see how it's possible that you would beat someone using a 2h weapon if you have a 1h, they have both their hands on their weapon, need I say more? Same goes for polearms, the only reason one should use a 1h is if they want to do something else with the other hand which could be nudges if they weren't so weird, shields or maybe even dual wielding? I know not how it would work but the Dark Souls 2 dual wielding system is the best I've seen.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Spurdospera on June 18, 2014, 09:36:03 am
For example, 95% of players in Aus are infantry with nothing else to their build. The other 5% combined are donkey riders, shielders, throwers and archers.
So you saying Aus has 20 players or more? :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Smoothrich on June 18, 2014, 11:33:25 am
One of my biggest problems with this game is that no playstyle apart from being a boring somewhat heavy infantry is viable anymore, and it's getting much worse.
For example, 95% of players in Aus are infantry with nothing else to their build. The other 5% combined are donkey riders, shielders, throwers and archers.
Make cavalry, especially heavy, viable. They are far too expensive, too easy to counter (literally anyone with some common sense and awareness will beat you, I know this from experience of both an infantrynerd and a cavalrynerd) especially with this retarded rearing mechanic.
Make ranged (and it appears everything but being a normal infantryman because of the amount of Q_Q that leads to irrational balancing) less annoying, give them more of an incentive to fight in melee, not an incentive to not fight in melee.
Have some actual balance in weapon classes, I don't see how it's possible that you would beat someone using a 2h weapon if you have a 1h, they have both their hands on their weapon, need I say more? Same goes for polearms, the only reason one should use a 1h is if they want to do something else with the other hand which could be nudges if they weren't so weird, shields or maybe even dual wielding? I know not how it would work but the Dark Souls 2 dual wielding system is the best I've seen.

its very depressing to read someone trying to balance cRPG for 8 people or less playing at peak-hours gameplay
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 18, 2014, 12:16:45 pm
When you do this again to cav i delete my Char at the moment i dont even have 8 riding to use heavy cav. So when you nerf them too. Then you can fuck your self i will delete my Charakter.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 18, 2014, 12:17:26 pm
When you want to do something buff shielder thery re is enough work for you to do.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 18, 2014, 12:28:00 pm
You already changed the requirement for this horses why now nerving them as well. Buff 2 handers with heavy Armour weight decreased and also shielder. And not always nerf cav. You can not even do real medieval tactics anymore in your mod. because of the current balancing. And still people want to nerf cav.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 18, 2014, 12:30:49 pm
Also you could buff crossbow man. Ridicules useless in battle mode When you are one of the heavy crossbow users. Pavese  shield changed to 1 slot. And make it that you can place it in front of you like a siege shield. So that you can use it as a stationary reloading point.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 18, 2014, 12:33:58 pm
And decrease the requirement for those shields. because you would need to do to much shieldskill and would use melee abilities. This shields are anyway to slow for melee combat. For example i see nobody playing with such a shield on eu_1.

In cease that you Hesitate about my arguments.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 18, 2014, 12:51:18 pm
Another problem is that you still not changed it that the Archers have melee abilities. For example it needs like 10 ranged who shoot at my horse to get it down. So most of the people just ride to the enemy spawn picking of the lonely ranged. And you don't want to give them melee abilities. And the freaking melees are not forced to help them and defend them what would be usually they re job. And of course everybody wants to make a thrower then when it makes more damage on horses then a bow does. But this is not the problem for me are the melees the problem. because i would not even had a chance to kill some archers and get in close when they would be professionals. So it has nothing to do with cav is OP. it is since ages not op anymore. What is really fucked up are 2 Handers and shielders. they are to weak now. For me are all classes to weak.  like i said maybe panos thread about the decrease of heavy armour upkeep and maybe the change of the weight of armour´s would fix the problem. All this things should be changed. Since yesterday. but nothing happens you only work on your melee gameing give the responsibility to someone else when you work on your new game. Or you think that game will be a good game when you put all your time in 2  projects. So i needs somebody who keep this here alive as well. But "You" need to be focused on that game would you are make right now.

Give responsibility to someone else. 
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Spurdospera on June 18, 2014, 12:58:45 pm
Simon: 6 posts in a row really? Couldn´t get your message to fit in 1 post?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 18, 2014, 01:11:52 pm
Simon_Templar

Omg! I need to know your ingame nickname, dude. Just for the lolz.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on June 18, 2014, 01:15:03 pm
Simon: 6 posts in a row really? Couldn´t get your message to fit in 1 post?
and be like all others mainstream bitches

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Rebelyell on June 18, 2014, 01:15:36 pm
and be like all others mainstream bitches

fuck no way!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 18, 2014, 01:30:51 pm
It's a strike !
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Shaksie on June 18, 2014, 03:31:19 pm
its very depressing to read someone trying to balance cRPG for 8 people or less playing at peak-hours gameplay
So should we be completely ignored? And we were actually getting close to 30 tonight 8)
But the main reason for our lack of players is that we have a different playstyle which isn't developing because the game's balance isn't accommodating it whatsoever.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Switchtense on June 18, 2014, 03:44:27 pm
I think our beloved vior (http://forum.melee.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24791) has shown us with This Thread (http://forum.melee.org/total-war-series/the-rome-is-not-the-best-of-this-game/) that fitting your message into only one post certainly is not as fun as just spamming the shit out of everybody.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 18, 2014, 03:59:24 pm
So should we be completely ignored? And we were actually getting close to 30 tonight 8)
But the main reason for our lack of players is that we have a different playstyle which isn't developing because the game's balance isn't accommodating it whatsoever.

For three years cRPG was balanced almost exclusively around EU battle mode. Since Tydeus and San took over, balance has more NA than EU flavour. Just get your own guys inside the system and you're good.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 18, 2014, 07:38:22 pm
Simon_Templar

Omg! I need to know your ingame nickname, dude. Just for the lolz.

I think it's Simon_HRE, his way of writing really fits too:D

P.s.: to Simon, all your troubles with playing as crossbower and as shielder directly go back to the fact that you are almost pure strength. I remember how you always told us to use the same build as you in teamspeak, but seeing you shuffle around like an elderly Multiple Sclerose patient makes me lol:D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 18, 2014, 09:00:50 pm
today i learned a new word: OXYMORON

OXYMORON is exactly what BANNERBALANCE is.

its funny cos its true.

 :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 18, 2014, 09:18:51 pm
OXYMORON

OXYMORON
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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 18, 2014, 09:30:42 pm
you are very stupid. i hate you.

i dont even know what you mean by this? how can "sniger" be a oxymoron? you ignorent fuck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron

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but i bet you still have no clue.

you just wanted to troll me and piss me off. you did, not cos of your "message", but just because you are fucking stupid.

 :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 18, 2014, 09:35:23 pm
Sargon's post actually makes some sense if you put away the "oxy" part.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 18, 2014, 09:36:05 pm
Sargon's post actually makes some sense if you put away the "oxy" part.

and your name makes perfectly sense if you remove the "pus" part.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 18, 2014, 09:41:40 pm
and your name makes perfectly sense if you remove the "pus" part.
It's funny because I can't feint for shit.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 18, 2014, 09:44:15 pm
today i learned a new word: OXYMORON

OXYMORON is exactly what BANNERBALANCE is.

its funny cos its true.

 :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 18, 2014, 11:05:25 pm
isnt this abit "out of context" sort of speak? you cant just toss us stats of your upkeep without also providing experience and pay stats, well you can but its kinda of pointless

Sniger you actually made some sense here for a few seconds, for once you said something useful.

Sadly, it didn't take long...
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 18, 2014, 11:40:16 pm
Nobody listens when morons make a good point
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 18, 2014, 11:43:58 pm
But sniger never makes good points?!  :lol:

Technically he just did.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 18, 2014, 11:58:19 pm
Stackmy old friend speaking, of course you don't see his point.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: StonedSteel on June 19, 2014, 12:37:36 am
For three years cRPG was balanced almost exclusively around EU battle mode. Since Tydeus and San took over, balance has more NA than EU flavour. Just get your own guys inside the system and you're good.

Ha, i hope you like NA flavor, cuz NA players dont, you can see this through the lack of players in...well pretty much every server. Everything but battle is pretty much dead. Why EU peoples with EU histories*, took something great and put it the hands of NA is beyond me ( *You lads actually fought medieval wars, while NA is a land notorious for shooting poor peoples. look at NA 1 right now, looks more like a shooting game then a medieval game )

Tydeus and his AGI biased team are running this mod into the ground, more often than not, this game is more frustrating than fun. Mistakes have been made, and its far too late to go back to better days. Maybe EU players dont want to balance things, maybe we are stuck with Tyd...Maybe Tydeus could balance the game around fun, instead of buffing himself and his friends / nerfing str / making it harder for others to get to the high lvls him and his "balancing" team are at. Digging deep into the maybe drawer.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 01:38:43 am
frankly, i couldnt care less what 90% of the community thinks. because ive realized that 90% of the community ARE FUCKING RETARDS AND HALF OF YOU ARE SUCKING COCK ON THE OTHER HALF.

 :lol:

oh my mute list. now kafein and shitlord too... oh the humanity
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 01:43:30 am
today i learned a new word: OXYMORON

OXYMORON is exactly what BANNERBALANCE is.

its funny cos its true.

 :lol:

on-topic.

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 01:46:15 am
no wait... i gotta repeat it. you guys are fucking retarded. grow some brains. get some balls. try come up with your own opinion for once in your shitty little fanboy life. for once, try open your mind instead of being fucking arrogant ignorent.

there. now ill sleep better tonight.

PS. majority of you have low IQ. haha. you taunt what you do not understand. haha. you are stupid!  :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Micah on June 19, 2014, 09:59:29 am
this thread could have alot value if it was written on paper, so at least i could wipe my crincly bottom with it ... or, if it was made of cloth, i could make rope from it to hang myself for doing the mistake to read it ... or, if it was made from sand, i could throw it in the eyes of kids when they are supposed to go sleep ...
so many possibilities ... incomprehensible ... im blown away  :shock:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 19, 2014, 10:38:53 am
What the actual fuck? How am I a stackmy old friend? You claim something without knowing anything about it.

Maybe my memory is failing me, in what clan were you again ?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 19, 2014, 10:56:59 am
He's lying, he's already applied for both mercs and byz.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 19, 2014, 11:03:23 am
When I do play, I play on EU2. On EU2 the big clans tend to take turns dominating the server and actively avoid each other. I almost never see anything resembling a "stack" of mercs or byz, hence why there's no competition and it's almost always clan vs pub, which sucks.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gurnisson on June 19, 2014, 11:10:22 am
Thought EU2 was Greys vs. Druzhina most of the time?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Macropus on June 19, 2014, 11:13:42 am
Lol Warlord, sorry I was just joking, didn't even know about your merc alt.  :)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 11:28:46 am
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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: McKli_PL on June 19, 2014, 12:26:50 pm
sometimes is better to have smart random player in team than a dumb clan mate:)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 19, 2014, 12:31:42 pm
I do not agree that the difference in multi between clan stacking and not clan stacking is marginal, this is again different between EU1 and EU2 of course. But I do appreciate the fact that we're having a civil conversation even though I started it like an ass.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 01:20:54 pm
lol warlord is part of 3 DIFFERENT clans. he is totally RAPING the idea of "banner-balance". he is totally exploiting strat.

logic says he HAS to dislike me and my anti-bannerbalance.

fuck him  :lol:

"warlord" my fucking ass. you are only lord of unfair bullshit gaming and cheating.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 19, 2014, 01:27:58 pm
Shut your fucking whore mouth sniger, only my old friends like you don't want to play together with their clan mates.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 01:30:53 pm
But I hope you somehow understand why it annoys me to such an extent when people like vidar QQ all the fucking time about a thing that only is unbalanced/unfair in their fucking imagination, not reality. Also in case of vidar, mad cuz bad. People like him have a right to have an opinion, but nobody needs to hear it, because it only has any kind of validity in their mind.

P.S: While I was typing and reading here the merc stack with more than 8 mercs playing lost a map 0:4 against "randomers". haha. And that's not a isolated case. I dare to say that the byzantium stack only has a 1. w/l ratio, the mercs stack maybe a bit higher. All that QQ about nothing.  :rolleyes:

warlord is a my old friendget noob and i have no respect for you.

warlord has to join big clans in order for him to progress. he is a noob.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

just stfu boy.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 01:32:24 pm
Shut your fucking whore mouth sniger, only my old friends like you don't want to play together with their clan mates.

dedicated fanboy & lobbyist
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 19, 2014, 01:44:51 pm
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Couldn't resist
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2014, 01:45:42 pm
sniger having one of his episodes again?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: F i n on June 19, 2014, 01:52:21 pm
0.3.3.8!

gogogo!

:D
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 02:10:04 pm
i only want serious conversation with intelligent people. not with bioslords.

yeah i feel kinda badass since im alone and always getting on the losing team and have to fight a stacking clan with zillionz of highlevel polearms, working with my random team (yeah! its possible!) and still i get top score. i brag cos i can.

you and the rest of you-know-who is this communitys clique, the bullys. they group up and then mock persons with opinions they dont like or disagree with.

and just like in-game, its me against the world. i thought it would be hard challenge, but you people have no brains  :lol:

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2014, 02:17:25 pm
i only want serious conversation with intelligent people. not with bioslords.

you and the rest of you-know-who is this communitys clique, the bullys. they group up and then mock persons with opinions they dont like or disagree with.

and just like in-game, its me against the world. i thought it would be hard challenge, but you people have no brains  :lol:

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 19, 2014, 02:30:36 pm
Holy shit now I really want to know how your fat ass looks like IRL, post pics sniger!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 02:46:06 pm
no you dont. you would become depressed.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Gurnisson on June 19, 2014, 02:48:42 pm
Holy shit now I really want to know how your fat ass looks like IRL, post pics sniger!

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 02:50:21 pm
Nords know visitors can't see pics , please register or login


nords know ;) and i hope they (still) cool enough to keep the secret alive ;D

edit: i suppose you could make some kind of loom contest, the one paying most looms can view my picture. all looms go to nords, personally i wouldnt mind, id lol :)
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Teeth on June 19, 2014, 03:01:58 pm
(click to show/hide)
These are the saddest e-peen screenshots I have ever seen.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2014, 03:10:06 pm
These are the saddest e-peen screenshots I have ever seen.

They are pretty great when you take in consideration he is alone against a world of braindead people!
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 03:40:31 pm
someone called "warlord" said im no good. im just as good as any of you on a good day. bullshit is called if i just say it though, such claims need proof. yes sad indeed right? it is very sad.

it is also very sad that you have to team up to get me   :| :) :D :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2014, 03:54:35 pm
someone called "warlord" said im no good. im just as good as any of you on a good day. bullshit is called if i just say it though, such claims need proof. yes sad indeed right? it is very sad.

it is also very sad that you have to team up to get me   :| :) :D :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

the only thing that needs teaming up are your three brain cells
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 03:59:03 pm
IMO. about EU battle:

I would like a competitive cRPG. Even teams with class balance and all that jazz. I know it can be done, its alot harder to modify/make a new banner-balance code.

Currently cRPG is not competitive. This is not due to balance of armors, weapons and other equipment (or lack of same), this is partly due to the massive MatchFixing that is inside the game itself - as a bloody feature - and partly due to the type of maps that is currently in the cycle.

To make cRPG competitive, the matchmaker has to be changed. Class-balance instead of banner-balance. No maze maps and maps where both sides are not able to see eachother at round start.

To make cRPG competitive and fun, the matchmaker in class-balance-mode and only kill and assist score is used. No valour (at least not a damage based valour) because valour will only generate way too many high damage heroes. Sure, it can still be competitive if class balance is in effect, but its just not as fun as when you have a diverse army, also when only 1-3 classes, commander have a very boring time.


ed: Actually much could be done with the commander if some kind of class-balance code were written right? You could use and extract data from it and use it to give commander for example F1 Archers, F2 Shield, F3 Pikemen, F4 Cav, F5 Heroes couldnt you?
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 19, 2014, 04:16:57 pm
Sargon's post actually makes some sense if you put away the "oxy" part.
that's almost exaclty what i meant.

"oxi moron" above his avatar

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxi#Oxi

3) http://en.wikipedia... i'm sure u do know what does moron means, don't u? for sure u do. it's u.

ur posts and ur ingame chat replies explain everything
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 04:26:33 pm
ed: Actually much could be done with the commander if some kind of class-balance code were written right? You could use and extract data from it and use it to give commander for example F1 Archers, F2 Shield, F3 Pikemen, F4 Cav, F5 Heroes couldnt you?

This would be awesome for DTV where people are keen to co-op... Ish  :P
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Corsair831 on June 19, 2014, 04:28:47 pm
someone called "warlord" said im no good. im just as good as any of you on a good day. bullshit is called if i just say it though, such claims need proof. yes sad indeed right? it is very sad.

it is also very sad that you have to team up to get me   :| :) :D :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 19, 2014, 04:31:01 pm
its growing and growing as we speak  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thryn on June 20, 2014, 01:23:58 am
My opinion of Sniger is pretty much entirely based off of this time where he went and downvoted 10 of my posts b/c I downvoted one of his...

I mean, you can only get so angry... or so I thought :o
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: San on June 20, 2014, 01:31:16 am
Autobalance code was posted a few times. You can try your hand at it if you feel so passionately about it.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Thomek on June 20, 2014, 03:28:08 am
(click to show/hide)

Valour is hit based not damage based afaik..

I agree commander can and should be developed.. Nevertheless, class balance could perhaps be made better, I wrote some long complicated post about it once. It requires some very complex coding though, and no one I know about feels it is important enough or feels that its worth it atm.. And I agree. :)

But commander development, yes pls. Most important is to track and display commander W:L ratio so players have a numerical measure to whom they should listen to orders from.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Kafein on June 20, 2014, 09:40:46 am
Valour is hit based not damage based afaik..

Valour is based on effective damage. Hence to make a high score you need either a big ass cut weapon or a pierce/blunt weapon.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 20, 2014, 10:08:56 am
(click to show/hide)

Valour is hit based not damage based afaik..

I agree commander can and should be developed.. Nevertheless, class balance could perhaps be made better, I wrote some long complicated post about it once. It requires some very complex coding though, and no one I know about feels it is important enough or feels that its worth it atm.. And I agree. :)

So what is your thoughts about the competitive part? (I always have Strat in mind, for them clan-battles.)

ed:
But commander development, yes pls. Most important is to track and display commander W:L ratio so players have a numerical measure to whom they should listen to orders from.

Do you mean round W:L or K/D? I think tracking K/D rating would be bad for Commander because he is suppose to stay alive as long as possible. I know he still can "command" while dead, but then why be on the battlefield and play at all why not just be spec? I just dont like that Commander can command while dead. If he lost command when killed, there would be a mission for the other team to kill the enemy Commander. Of course the Commander would have to be marked somehow.

Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 20, 2014, 11:58:28 am
My opinion of Sniger is pretty much entirely based off of this time where he went and downvoted 10 of my posts b/c I downvoted one of his...

I mean, you can only get so angry... or so I thought :o

You see, thats where you fail. You think i did it cos i was angry...  :lol:
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Teeth on June 20, 2014, 12:33:57 pm
Yeah Sniger, in the time you splurged about 1000 hilarious posts about the same thing, you could've probably learned basic coding and have written a new auto balance code by now. One that exactly splits banner groups over the teams as they are the spawn of Satan, and we would now have 7 rounds on each map and 1 vs 1 duels at the end of each round due to perfect balance.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 20, 2014, 12:39:35 pm
You see i already thought of that. Waste of time. It wouldnt be used. But im not shutting up about it, it is a unfair feature no matter how much you scream TEAMWORK TEAMWORK

It awesome for Strat! Someone thought it was so awesome that they felt like adding it to the fucking public FFA servers as well. Way to go man.
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 20, 2014, 01:03:13 pm
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: Sniger on June 21, 2014, 10:34:47 am
Matchmaker worked great last night IMO.

However, there was 5+ clans online where 3 was megaclan.

Nord needs to play more often, id say on a daily basis, for the matchmaker to work and make the game fun.  :P

edit: fuck, i forgot it was edited post, now i dont remember wtf was in it doh, was suppose to make a new reply gaaah just woke up, i go to bed again
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: bavvoz on June 24, 2014, 01:24:19 pm
Clanstacks, teamwork. U want the reward from that but not do the effort. Join a clan or make ur own, plow down the time and effort it takes and fight back that teamwork with teamwork
Title: Re: 0.3.3.7
Post by: ArysOakheart on July 05, 2014, 10:10:18 am
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Before and after patch...

I still can not figure out why they have so much increased the arabian warhorse upkeep..
The Courser have 48 speed and 40 maneuver, Arabian got 40 speed and 48 maneuver so, why that fucking Arabian costs 10k more ???

If you do not want players using something just remove it instead of fuck the players who use it.

Instead of piss cavs or archers, or any other class that become "op" because of your crappy patch, you'd better set the autobalance and there would have no more teams that have all the cavs and archers against the paysant because it is the only cause of the balancing problem since a long time already.


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You're right, my upkeep seems to have gone up as well!