Pikes? Crossbows? Arrows? I'm sorry your teammates don't aim for the horses.
Easily the biggest horse predator is awareness.
I've been using a pike a lot more since the patch, TBH, now that I know not everyone is going to just carry one in their pocket, I feel it's my duty as a polearms user to do what I can to assist teammates against both infantry and cavalry.
Horses have natural predators in the water. This is why they are on land. They all fear the infamous Pike.
Lulz, another one of these threads... :rolleyes:
"omagad, its the end of the world as we know it" thats what you people sound like :mrgreen:
seriously i'm going to start posting screenshots of me couching my lance through a pack of 20 enemies who just came out of spawn and not even one turning round to check!...
On foot im polearm i go round with a pike and a great long axe that acts as a secondary weapon...secondary yea cuz the pike is awesome! The ultimate teamplay weapon. It stuns my enemies with its long range while my buddy takes advantage of the stun to kill him...
Or i steal frags :D and i tend to be near the top of the scoreboards :)
so pike isnt just an anti cav weapon! Stop seeing the pike as a waste of your slot selections!
Yesterday was a particular bad round I whitnessed. DRZ_Naduril came charging in on his courser just after round start. He came from the front, so I downblocked his light lance.
He then proceeded to run through our team from the FRONT and killed 4 people in 1 pass. He came out the other end without damage and killed 16 players that round.
Kinda looked like nobody even tried to stop him.
With the nerf to throwing horses are running around unafraid. Either rebuff a range type to deal with this menace or nerf horses.
The worst thing I have been seeing since the patch hit is if you do somehow try to pike them they just downblock and somehow it blocks the thrust to their horse as well. Even seen jump their horse and you pike the underbelly of the horse, but because they are downblocking youa ctually hear the blocking sound and the horse goes by undamaged. Seriosuly downblock should not protect your horse at all let alone form every angle including above and below.
stop beig kill hungry, aim for the horse...not the rider....any cav with a bit of xp will downblock tp save himself...but if you kill the horse youll have a bit of time for you and you friends to express all your cavhate contained deep inside yourself and proceed to rape him...
as inf i equip with a pike and a great long axe.yep, i have tried downblocking it too and it wounds your horse still, if you go for the horse, but get blocked of (u even hear the going through flesh sound).
I never get the downblocking problem...
You get it because you aim upwoards, the pike goes straight through the horse and hits the rider's cavblock wich has a super forcefield... Wounding the horse but doing the block noise
as soon as you hit a cav with your pike (except if you stick it up its ass) it will stop, even if the cav jumps it will do this ugly landing rear....a great long axe in its legs and cav no more
Horse archers eat horses for a light snack.
Pedestrians need better situational awareness. Cav know bad situational awareness gets one killed (arrow from no where, lance from blind spot, hitting a hidden man or obstacle) but pedestrians can't seem to get this. Situational awareness, like feinting, is a essential part of the pedestrian skill set. It is nearly impossible to get an aware infantryman as cav.
Or take the easy way. Nearly 95% of maps have a campable roof, where you can throw situational awareness to the wind and tunnel vision all you like. Do you hear cav complaining about that? But you see a few cav killing unaware or afk people who don't bother to use tilda or turn around despite someone spamming "incoming cavalry-from the rear!" multiple times and suddenly horses don't have natural predators?
Horses are the means of natural selection. The unaware gets picked off, so the fittest can fight in the end.
Lactose... I had to give you +1 for your name alone!
Doenst matter when the guy riding the horse is sitting on and unerfed champ formula 1 race courser or arab horse moveing 10 meters per sec..
Im cav myself and anyone who have rode a champ courser or arab horse know its easy mode and total bullshit lmao :lol:
Pikes? Crossbows? Arrows? I'm sorry your teammates don't aim for the horses.
Easily the biggest horse predator is awareness.
I'd say 70% of my kills from horseback are unaware or uncaring footmen. Post patch, I haven't really seen many throwers bothering me, but crossbows and pikes have taken their place. I'm hella glad that my champoin courser isn't being one shot by throwing axes anymore, that was BS. Honestly, success from horseback depends alot on the map and who's playing.
Added lions in next patch.
Lower Horse HP.The last thing we need is for the horses to be even more fragile, meh.
These annoying ppl delay matches too much. Running around for an hour as the last man standing on their team. Shits weak.
You guys should check out NA 100 right now, 20% or more of the server is cavalry and the team with more cav wins every round and most of thema re not even good cav they just either have high speed champion coursers or are riding plated chargers (lljk clan is back). They have no real counter because ranged does almost no damage except for throwers but they are few and far between. It becomes justa fight by polearms against cav with no real meleeing and cav almost always winning with sheer force of numbers, boring as hell.Lol range does no damage? Explain to me how a headshot kills my Palphrey/Sarranid instantly? Explain to me why my horse is dead within 2, maybe sometimes 3 shots on any other part of its body? And do you know how much plated charger costs to repair? Around 4500 gold, that's right, that's what you my old friendchers pay for your full set times x3. And that's only their horse. Plus the horse is slow as fuck, only meant for gimmick fights.
Seems everone else is going cav, going to make me an alt as its the new easiest class, of course with teveryone else doing this it will no longer be mount and blade, just mount and couch.
Lol range does no damage? Explain to me how a headshot kills my Palphrey/Sarranid instantly? Explain to me why my horse is dead within 2, maybe sometimes 3 shots on any other part of its body? And do you know how much plated charger costs to repair? Around 4500 gold, that's right, that's what you friendly archers pay for your full set times x3. And that's only their horse. Plus the horse is slow as fuck, only meant for gimmick fights.
Made your 'easymode' character yet? Meet me on EU_3 and let's fight, I've had enough of this easymode crap. Put words to action.
Fighting someone with my 175 ping on EU3 is not my idea of proving anything.That's too bad, would've loved proving my point to you at the tip of my lance.
To be honest, I would like more people to be cav, so there is less "CAV TAKES NO SKILL" whining, when people realize it isn't that easy.
It's pretty easy.....Against guys like you, probably.
Against guys like you, probably.
Are you mad cause you can't block? Calm down, guy.Lol, +1 for that remark. Blocking is quite easy for me. Can't say that about guys like you randomly spamming the forums.
Lol, +1 for that remark. Blocking is quite easy for me. Can't say that about guys like you randomly spamming the forums.
I sure do hope Lions will be added next patch, maybe Plated Lions? =)
That combined with 7-9 riding skill and you turn around see no one turn back and in less than 3 seconds you get couched from behind. Situational awareness be damned. The best nerf of horses would make riding skill half as effective as it used to be for speed and maneuverability (since its only 3 not 6 agility since january) and so they actually would need to catch people unawares or lance skillfully not just rely on ungodly speeds faster than any real horse alive doing sharp 90 degree turns at full gallop.
did you forgot all horses were nerfed back than by -2speed -2 maneuverability when they changed riding skill from every 6 points into every 3 points ?
Pikes are a defensive weapon against horses. You can't hunt horses with pikes with any kid of effectiveness. You only way to aggressively fight horses is with ranged and the game currently lacks a ranged class strong enough to deal with them. It will take a little while, as people level up and retire, but I expect to see a large influx of horses in the next week or two.
Repair bills are largely a problem for new players. The majority of us have hundreds of thousands of gold coins lying around and nothing to spend them on.
The only reason not to get a horse at this point would be because they may not be as usefull in strategus.
I heard that horse is actually quite the nice meal. So... horse steak anyone :twisted:
Huh, I wonder why I tend to not fear horses as infantry.
...............
Oh, I use a pike and organize my team to gather around pikes with shielders/2h up front. All archers to be protected and shoot people/horses while safe behind protection.
BRB getting x5. (until random pubs just run off and suicide :cry:. Why do they just run off to die by themselves? It never works. It never has worked.)
Also, why is it such a huge surprise that cav is viable now? A surprise that they are 20% the population of a server now? There are three main character types. Infantry, Archery, and cavalry. If it were a normal distribution, there would be 1/3rd the server as cav -- and it is leaning in that direction.
What I am saying is tactics. If you guys don't all rambo like idiots, cav are not a threat. Unless they were to make amazing coordinated trample pushes with the enemy infantry swarming in as they knock you down like sacrificial battering rams. *flashbacks of practices with cavalieres*
The metagame is changing in a really good way. I'm starting to see pike swarms and squad play without organizing them -- sometimes. But you didn't see it as often before.
I don't think this one is a balance issue. It is a state of mind and lack of teamwork issue with players not intent on change.*
*Some small cav balance tweaks may be made, but they are not something developed to be noticeable yet. It is only a week after patch and people aren't even used to the changes yet to properly defend themselves and/or adjust to a different metagame.
Lower Horse HP.
(...)
Or increase horse HP but implement a penaty to speed and maneuver as they get wounded. Some mods have implemented this and it is quite consistent.interesting suggestion :D
What I am saying is tactics. If you guys don't all rambo like idiots, cav are not a threat.
Horse have been buffed by the patch it is pretty clear you just have to look how they behave now. Charging in the middle of melee like pre-upkeep patch is evidence enough and the scoreboard just confirm that.If people stick to each other, at least in small groups, cav will have a much harder time killing you. Of course some lamers will go rambo, they will get owned by ranged, infantry or cav.
Nobody sayed that you don't need skill to be a good rider so please lobbyst calm down. This is not a nerf thread it's just a discussion about current state of cav look at the title of the thread.
Yup let's also buff back archer to pre-upkeep patch i mean if everybody used tactics and coordination instead of rushing like buttfucker morons they were not threat at all. That argument is just fail because you can apply it for everything and teamwork on a large scale on a big battle server will never happen. How can you organize 50 people without leader, proper mean of communication and so on ?
Also try to be more humble and less insulting once in a while that would be nice
The amount of times I've seen archers ignore the horses because they dont lead to kills is ridiculous... If Archers were clever enough to realise that shooting a sarranid horse a few times or a courser a little more brings the horse down, then cavalry wouldn't be so effective. You can't say nerf cavalry due to another classes disregard of a threat they should be dealing with :P Archers can bring my champion sarranid down in 2 hits to the body, 1 head shot. It doesnt take much especially as I'm a thrower cav and need to be pretty close to get within range :PIndeed, however I seem to have bad luck compared to guys like Oberyn And Tommy. I use the exact same tactics to avoid getting hit and getting kills. Yet archers seem to like focusing on me.
Pikes do not stop cavalry. They just make them go away. I can spend the complete round with a pike, turning my camera like a paranoid (= situational awareness good) but no rider will come to empale his horse on my pike.
Or increase horse HP but implement a penalty to speed and maneuver as they get wounded. Some mods have implemented this and it is quite consistent.
You forgot stupid ;)True.
From my point of view, wearing a headset, sitting in front of a 32":
It aint a problem of cav as a class or pikes being unsheatable.
Its a simple and coomon fact that around 60 % of the crpg playerbase is either deaf, blind, both, unexpierienced or sometimes lazy.
Did anybody once spectate players like Torben?
Getting easy kills and good k/d aint hard not because cav is easymode, its bcoz there is sooo sooo many ridiculusly easy kills to farm.
These cav. Guys know their pet, got really good map overview and simply
backstab unaware masses.
What the hell is wrong with that?
Nothing.
Why is that?
Poeple make it easy for the cav simply by being deaf, dumb, blind etc.
Ppl. sound like cav also has an easy time against a group of halfway aware opponents...nope they dont.
I know since i enjoy killing cav the most. Cav. is commited, making a mistake is followed by death.
I dont see any problem here, but thats just my aware point of view.
When you want to break it down on the playerbase, horses could have 1/2 the speed and would still rape.... with pikes, without pikes, bcoz nobody can change /heirloom modify ppls awareness...
Fighting someone with my 175 ping on EU3 is not my idea of proving anything. Plus 1v1 isnt the issue we are trying to discuss, its the 20-30% of servers being cav completely dominating even if some bad cav die off quickly, a large group of decent cav will always dominate against all other classes now OR it becomes a pike (most with only 1 wpf) vs. cavalry fight and no one melees. The patch has shifted the balance heavily in favor of cavalry as a class better than other classes. The more imbalanced the game, the less dynamic the fight as one class increasingly dominates, becomes more popular, then even more dominant unlesss factors are done to rebalance.
Pikes are a defensive weapon against horses. You can't hunt horses with pikes with any kid of effectiveness. You only way to aggressively fight horses is with ranged and the game currently lacks a ranged class strong enough to deal with them. It will take a little while, as people level up and retire, but I expect to see a large influx of horses in the next week or two.
Repair bills are largely a problem for new players. The majority of us have hundreds of thousands of gold coins lying around and nothing to spend them on.
The only reason not to get a horse at this point would be because they may not be as usefull in strategus.
Huh, I wonder why I tend to not fear horses as infantry.
...............
Oh, I use a pike and organize my team to gather around pikes with shielders/2h up front. All archers to be protected and shoot people/horses while safe behind protection.
BRB getting x5. (until random pubs just run off and suicide :cry:. Why do they just run off to die by themselves? It never works. It never has worked.)
Also, why is it such a huge surprise that cav is viable now? A surprise that they are 20% the population of a server now? There are three main character types. Infantry, Archery, and cavalry. If it were a normal distribution, there would be 1/3rd the server as cav -- and it is leaning in that direction.
What I am saying is tactics. If you guys don't all rambo like idiots, cav are not a threat. Unless they were to make amazing coordinated trample pushes with the enemy infantry swarming in as they knock you down like sacrificial battering rams. *flashbacks of practices with cavalieres*
The metagame is changing in a really good way. I'm starting to see pike swarms and squad play without organizing them -- sometimes. But you didn't see it as often before.
I don't think this one is a balance issue. It is a state of mind and lack of teamwork issue with players not intent on change.*
*Some small cav balance tweaks may be made, but they are not something developed to be noticeable yet. It is only a week after patch and people aren't even used to the changes yet to properly defend themselves and/or adjust to a different metagame.
Or increase horse HP but implement a penalty to speed and maneuver as they get wounded. Some mods have implemented this and it is quite consistent.
You might not see it from your horse but here, on Earth, things area bit different.Most of us cav players play dismounted classes to, on top of that most of us go for a build that makes useful on foot too. Probably better than most of you, since the cav players I see online frequently are more skillful than the average community.
Sounds are deceiving: a horse can sound very close whereas it is actually far, and the opposite. A directional sound system is not reliable either, I hear undistinguished galops in the four speakers almost constantly (it is a native problem).
A rider can cross the map in, what, 20-30 secs. So even though you check your back clear, a cav can be onto you within a few seconds without being noticed. You just cannot keep watching all the time and if spotted, the rider just moves on to the next target. With 100+ people on a server, cav will always find unaware targets.
On the contrary, cav don't have to split their attention: they have nothing to watch for because, as the title says, they have no natural predators.
Poeple make it easy for the cav simply by being deaf
since the cav players I see online frequently are more skillful than the average community.lol, so much ego. Most cav are barely better than archers and hardly more skillful than even noob infantry once they're dismounted. You're a funny guy though.
If you can'tFixed. Again the sound in this game is fucking jacked and shitty and you damn well know it.hear andsee, than that is a physical problem, not an ingame one.
Headset, 36" monitor. Cav sounds are fucking retarded and nigh nonexistant most of the time. Or rediculously loud when they're across the map and nowhere near you. The sound in this game is crap and you know it. I hunt cav with my spear/pike and it's easy enough to keep track of them once you SEE them, but hearing them is impossible even with a good headset because the sound is fucked.How is it shitty? Get surround sound headsets if you want to know where the sound came from. Hearing loud cavalry sounds is a warning, looking around is something perfectly doable. Why can't you what others can?
lol, so much ego. Most cav are barely better than archers and hardly more skillful than even noob infantry once they're dismounted. You're a funny guy though.Fixed. Again the sound in this game is fucking jacked and shitty and you damn well know it.
Just a short observation - i'm a cav/infantry hybrid, when i go on foot i die from swords,maces,bows,xbows,throwing weapons and on the most rare occasions i die from cavalry. Just saying.I was playing in EU_4, half the server was archers, nerf!!! :wink:
I was playing in EU_4, half the server was archers, nerf!!! :wink:
I would´nt mind having that 90 degree lance thingy.Actually, I usually see the skilled players top the boards, thing is, some of them are cavalry, like Oberyn. Some of them are shielders. Some of them are 2handers. Does that mean the class needs more nerfing? I don't think so.
Sounds fair thinking about how easy it is now it ill make it more interesting and more fun to the whole hunt.
On another note cav players will allways be able to top the scoreboard aslong as we have unaware infantry.
Granted yes i know its close to impossible to hear a champ courser or arab horse comming from behind because of their insane speed but im pretty sure they are gettin a speed nerf sooner or l8r right now they move like sonic. :P
Archers just need to stop being jerks and help the team by making cav a number one priority.Yup, the whole point is that ninjas no longer backstab the nabs, but cavalry does. Why? Because we ride a horse and are faster than other flankers, so we can kill the rambos first. Unless of course the archers are close enough to barrage us down.
Any class can top the scoreboard, and does, if it concentrates on weak or unaware targets.
Archers just need to stop being jerks and help the team by making cav a number one priority.
This isn't reality, nor are many of the comments being passed off as 'truth' by cav players.
Fact is, archers do shoot at horses. However, arrows no longer fly as far, the arrows aren't as fast, we don't have as many arrows, damage drops off over distance, and contrary to the "my horse dies in 1 or 2 arrows" statements, even the rouncey can take as many as 4 arrows from a masterwork strong bow with bodkins and 6 PD. That's fact. All that means is that archers no longer try to hit even horses from long distance as you will quickly run out of arrows and might have gotten a couple lucky hits, which killed nothing. When horses are in range, standing your ground and going for a headshot when missed (which happens all the time with riders who know to weave as they come in), results in you either dead from bump slash, or dead from the lance/pike on a swivel as you try to release and dodge out of the way. With arrows no longer releasing if you are moving, you have to stand your ground, then are screwed if you don't get a kill headshot. Armored ponies eat those headshots and then run around with an arrow sticking out of their eye as you watch from spectator.
Since you bring up the scoreboard, then add in mounted horse kills so that you can actually SEE what the archers are doing instead of your faulty speculation. If I am mistaken and I am the only archer shooting horses down, then maybe a bit of ePEEN loving in the form of scoreboard recognition of their contribution might entice them to shoot more of the horses down.
And the "surround sound" for horses is utterly and uselessly broken.
my arbelest works pretty dam good vs cavalry. aim calmly at the horses head and casually release just before rider can stab you, then proceed to perform anal sex on rider while hes sliding along the floor.hows that 2 slot bit treating ya?
This isn't reality, nor are many of the comments being passed off as 'truth' by cav players.
Fact is, archers do shoot at horses. However, arrows no longer fly as far, the arrows aren't as fast, we don't have as many arrows, damage drops off over distance, and contrary to the "my horse dies in 1 or 2 arrows" statements, even the rouncey can take as many as 4 arrows from a masterwork strong bow with bodkins and 6 PD. That's fact. All that means is that archers no longer try to hit even horses from long distance as you will quickly run out of arrows and might have gotten a couple lucky hits, which killed nothing. When horses are in range, standing your ground and going for a headshot when missed (which happens all the time with riders who know to weave as they come in), results in you either dead from bump slash, or dead from the lance/pike on a swivel as you try to release and dodge out of the way. With arrows no longer releasing if you are moving, you have to stand your ground, then are screwed if you don't get a kill headshot. Armored ponies eat those headshots and then run around with an arrow sticking out of their eye as you watch from spectator.
Since you bring up the scoreboard, then add in mounted horse kills so that you can actually SEE what the archers are doing instead of your faulty speculation. If I am mistaken and I am the only archer shooting horses down, then maybe a bit of ePEEN loving in the form of scoreboard recognition of their contribution might entice them to shoot more of the horses down.
And the "surround sound" for horses is utterly and uselessly broken.
fine using the langes messer is pretty OP, it has better stats than the pathetic katana when in 2h mode.
100 speed vs 101
92 reach vs 95
37 cut vs 35
24 pierce vs 16
1 slot vs 2 slot
come on item balance team, I know your smarter than this >.>
Lets stay on topic. In summation horses are currently unbalanced because:
1) There is no longer a ranged class that can keep calvary in line
2) The sound system is bogus
3) Horsies are too fast
4) Asking everyone to carry a pike is stupid
5) Can't trust anything a horse says.
The force-dropping of pikes makes them pretty undesirable. Surely you have noticed a great reduction in the number of pike-users, haven't you?
You might not see it from your horse but here, on Earth, things area bit different.
Sounds are deceiving: a horse can sound very close whereas it is actually far, and the opposite. A directional sound system is not reliable either, I hear undistinguished galops in the four speakers almost constantly (it is a native problem).
A rider can cross the map in, what, 20-30 secs. So even though you check your back clear, a cav can be onto you within a few seconds without being noticed. You just cannot keep watching all the time and if spotted, the rider just moves on to the next target. With 100+ people on a server, cav will always find unaware targets.
On the contrary, cav don't have to split their attention: they have nothing to watch for because, as the title says, they have no natural predators.
The issue is that it takes half your weapon slots as well. Even if you kill the horse with a pike, its a piss poor weapon to be stuck with if you don't have a buddy to be with you. 1v1, you're dead. 1v anything, you're dead.
Lets stay on topic. In summation horses are currently unbalanced because:Don't trust horses! They lie! Only trust fishies!
1) There is no longer a ranged class that can keep calvary in line
2) The sound system is bogus
3) Horsies are too fast
4) Asking everyone to carry a pike is stupid
5) Can't trust anything a horse says.
Cav is faster, infantry just cannot escape
Swifter, very difficult to dodge their, with good rider/high maneuvrability even impossible.
Longest range (except pike, footie don't use anymore), no weapon outrange lances
Bump slash/bumpthrust make shields and downblock unreliable if not useless
Speed bonus entail 99% chance of unstakill
No whiff effect: the lance has no minimum range (on the contrary of polearms)
Spinning thrust (up to 90 degree)
When the horse is dead, the rider is still alive, he can even find another horse and ride again. Infantry has no second chance.
The supposedly awful slowliness of lances makes them stand in the "hit" position longer which is an advantage.
Want more?
Pikes are great at 1v1, I bet SpooKnasty could kill you in a 1v1 duel using his pike.
Their only vulnerability is ranged weapons.
would it be wrong if i would say that natural predator of cav is the enemy cav ?
just like when archer sit on roof he doesnt have any natural predators outside other archers, no?
(click to show/hide)
First of all, double posting is not allowed on any forum. Use the modify button instead.(click to show/hide)
Lol, all I see in this thread is stupid whine, people have perfectly and readily available weapons (pikes, bamboo spears, war spear) to deal with cavs but they whine anyway and not use said weapon, one thing I noticed is how apparently everyone want to just roll in with their main weapon and kill 10 people a second while dehorsing and slaughtering cavs left and right, then they complain they got killed by cav because they're trying to take them on alone.
How is it shitty? Get surround sound headsets if you want to know where the sound came from. Hearing loud cavalry sounds is a warning, looking around is something perfectly doable. Why can't you what others can?
Hurr durr durr, someone thinks he has skilzz, I can beatz any cavalryman on foot! But I can't lookz aroundz meh!
Seriously, if you can't keep track of whats happening around you, how can you ever keep track of someones hits?
:wink:
It was a few pages back but someone brought up the arguement that a server filled 20% with calvary is a reasonably slice. That is entirely wrong because there are more than just five types of player classes. There are shield and board, 2h, polearm, archers, crossbowmen, calvary, and throwers. Throwing is the least represented class on the battlefield and I believe calvary will be the most.First of all, all I've seen since this patch is a massive increase in archers and shielders. Ranged spam is back.
Secondly, cav can go many ways too: Lancer, Horse Archer,Mounted Thrower,Mounted Crossbowman,1Hander+Shield,Mounted 2hander.
Yeah I didn't care when bows were king. I didn't care when throwing was king. I am 1h/shield and this cav thong wouldn't be bad if there was a 1h polearm of some sort that was good for anti cav.have u tried the redtassel/warspear, awlpike or bamboospear?
Hopefully something gets changed. This is ridiculous.
If not let me know so I can retire and change my character.
Edited out all the shitty non-viable ones that damn near no cav plays in any kind of serious manner other than for gimmicky lulz and trololo'ingExcept that the people using onehanders on horses are returning to the game? I've seen at least 25% of the cav use onehanders. Mounted Crossbowman sadly can't get a buff, since it will buff Crossbowmen too. Mounted Throwing is just not popular atm, dunno why. Mounted 2hander is just as viable as onehander and shield.
Edited out all the shitty non-viable ones that damn near no cav plays in any kind of serious manner other than for gimmicky lulz and trololo'ing
Edited out all the shitty non-viable ones that damn near no cav plays in any kind of serious manner other than for gimmicky lulz and trololo'ing
Edited out all the shitty non-viable ones that damn near no cav plays in any kind of serious manner other than for gimmicky lulz and trololo'ing
First of all, double posting is not allowed on any forum. Use the modify button instead.
Secondly, all ranged characters are more deadly to my efforts than a pike. A pike I can avoid, unless hes in the last group of enemies alive. Throwers simply were forced to go for more agility and thus more wpf, is that so bad? Everyone else has to, why can't you? Throwers are still a pain in the ass with their weapons, yesterday a teammate even tked me, at 50% damage, with a heavy throwing axe.
About your whole cavalry don't counter themselves argument, that's pretty invalid. Why wouldn't they be a counter to themselves?
Throwers were not the best counter, ever, archers and crossbowmen are.
You could even say that throwers were everyones counter, since they were so OP.
Got more?
You've got nothing but falsehoods. A lie told often enough is truth? Not when the evidence is reviewed by those with eyes that see. I'm certain that most of the Dev's are able. But you may continue your spam and imagine that you are accomplishing your goal. :wink:Falsehoods and lies? Pretty much sums it up for your unbacked arguments.
but they aren't offensive weapons in that you can run after and hunt cav with them.
@Gorath: Viable is something different than being more effective than others.
No, Viable is having an equal effective nature compared to most.Viable is what I call a class that can get a positive k/d.
Viable is what I call a class that can get a positive k/d.That would be a naked guy punching. Kill 1 peasant, log off. :rolleyes:
Plus you calling onehanders/2handers on a horse being worthless, is just laughable at best.
yeah there seems to be a difference between Eu and NA, EU have way more 1h and 2h cav than NA has.
Its pretty interesting to see how well a 1h cav can do, once u figure out how to, its pretty effectice.
Can't really understand why an heirloom nerf is in order, only the Sarranid (aka Arabian War-)Horse needs a nerf.
Heirloom nerf will hit armoured horses even more, they will be utterly useless.
In NA cav isn't op...
Not as much cav as there are in EU (I've plyed on Eu servers)
ranged weapons balance out cav fine
2-4 arrows horsey dead
1-3 throwing weapons horsey dead
1 pike horsey dead
nerfing heirlooms for horses is a bad idea
like magikarp said
Arabian horse needs a bad nerf
it turns unnaturally well
nothing can turn with it an therefore it can take angles that Noone can fuck with
drop is maneveur to 45
and it will only have 49 maneuver at champion
Dont forgot about the formula 1 courserCourser is fine, that speed won't do you any good, makes you so unmanouverable, that youll always get instakilled when you fuck up.
There should be a ninja horse to go with the ninja armor/weapons that is equipped with horse socks that makes them quieter when running around.Disclaimer:
In NA cav isn't op...
Not as much cav as there are in EU (I've plyed on Eu servers)
ranged weapons balance out cav fine
2-4 arrows horsey dead
1-3 throwing weapons horsey dead
1 pike horsey dead
nerfing heirlooms for horses is a bad idea
like magikarp said
Arabian horse needs a bad nerf
it turns unnaturally well
nothing can turn with it an therefore it can take angles that Noone can fuck with
drop is maneveur to 45
and it will only have 49 maneuver at champion
Ya, I was reading that and I can't name a time when I've had 2 non-headshotting arrows kill a horse.In NA most archers go 9 PD strong/war bow and such, and 2 arrows non headshot will drop coursers/arabian warhorses/etc. Anything not armored in 2 or 3 arrows. Pretty much guaranteed.
Pikes: 1 pike may stop a horse, but it won't kill it. Typically I have to get 2 perfect stabs on a horse to kill it. With a horse stopped right in my face, a pike's hit often whiffs and does little damage to the horse.
In NA most archers go 9 PD strong/war bow and such, and 2 arrows non headshot will drop coursers/arabian warhorses/etc. Anything not armored in 2 or 3 arrows. Pretty much guaranteed.
I don't know about EU metagame for archer builds, but from what I hear your archers tend to go low PD and prefer to run from melee too?
I 1 hit horses with a pike all day. If it is something like a war horse or heavier? I will usually kill it with the second stab before it can run away after being stopped. If it survives it will be with absolutely no health and will drop to an arrow or 2 guaranteed. If the pikeman has proper footwork He will NEVER GLANCE on a horse unless it is running away from him -- in which case the pikeman didn't stop it in the first place.
Oh, and if you stop the horse it is dead. There are these things called teammates, and if you are a pikeman you are ALWAYS BY TEAMMATES [Or you are doing pikeman wrong, what are you protecting from cav lololol]. 97% of horses that I stop die and my teammates appreciate the kill if I don't get it myself.
Again, this is a teamwork issue and not a balance issue. IF archers shoot the cav they are gone within a minute of the match and I don't even get to dehorse them! You guys ever see a group of 5 archers calling out targets and focus firing cav while protected by a guy with a long stick? Oh my god cav literally drop in less than 5 seconds if within sight of the archers. Cav can't do anything to it. Try it sometime. You will find it so enjoyable.
In NA most archers go 9 PD strong/war bow and such, and 2 arrows non headshot will drop coursers/arabian warhorses/etc. Anything not armored in 2 or 3 arrows. Pretty much guaranteed.
I don't know about EU metagame for archer builds, but from what I hear your archers tend to go low PD and prefer to run from melee too?
I 1 hit horses with a pike all day. If it is something like a war horse or heavier? I will usually kill it with the second stab before it can run away after being stopped. If it survives it will be with absolutely no health and will drop to an arrow or 2 guaranteed. If the pikeman has proper footwork He will NEVER GLANCE on a horse unless it is running away from him -- in which case the pikeman didn't stop it in the first place.
Oh, and if you stop the horse it is dead. There are these things called teammates, and if you are a pikeman you are ALWAYS BY TEAMMATES [Or you are doing pikeman wrong, what are you protecting from cav lololol]. 97% of horses that I stop die and my teammates appreciate the kill if I don't get it myself.
Again, this is a teamwork issue and not a balance issue. IF archers shoot the cav they are gone within a minute of the match and I don't even get to dehorse them! You guys ever see a group of 5 archers calling out targets and focus firing cav while protected by a guy with a long stick? Oh my god cav literally drop in less than 5 seconds if within sight of the archers. Cav can't do anything to it. Try it sometime. You will find it so enjoyable.
You're totally right. Needing six people to take down 1 horse is completely balanced.
I've come to retract my previous statements. After the heirloom reset, I was able to go with a Warbow and pure archer setup. I had to scramble for weapons to melee, (though Ive since picked up a weak 0 slot 1 hander), but I was able to go from negative k/d with a Masterwork Strong bow (both hybrid and pure), to a postive k/d with the warbow. It does enough damage to drop horses, usually in 2-3 shots, but I've seen one (unarmored) take 4 to bring down.
The Arabian Jetpack is still ridiculous, though more from a melee standpoint.
Speed bonus on a lance turned 90 degrees for a 1 hit kill is still silly.
Throwing is broken though. I feel bad for those who have played the build for 6 months or more and are Gen 1.
completly right.
Oh and a Tin Can (heirloomed) shielder with a metal shield and a steel pick can be as hard to kill as a cav and it costs as much for upkeep. I know a guy who can't be killed beside being ganged up on or couched by a cav cuz he pumped his str while using that equipment just mentionned... will u ask for a nerf on him too? 8-) also, look at how TS group of archers on NA when working togeter are able to easily dispose of ennemy cavs :wink:
less gold more kills = cavalry
more gold less kills = infantry
which one do you want?
your choice
Additionally, the situation you described of the piker/archer combo is pretty romanticized, and as someone who has played with you as a horseman, it is very rare.I tend to not get any archers to play with TO organize is the problem, but on the rare occasion I do it isn't that "it kills that horseman" it is "It kills ALL the enemy team's horseman".
Occasionally you will see an organized squad, but most of the time, if I'm focusing (which often im not!), I can swoop in and get a guaranteed couple of kills.
Another factor you are leaving out: organized horsemen. In the situation you described, a lone horseman can be killed by a greater number of players. However, on a level field, if you have the same number of infantry versus an equal number of horsemen, if both teams are equally organized or disorganized, the horsemen should come out on top in the current patch.
Pikes? Still a problem, but much less so of one thanks to the fact that very few people on the battlefield use them. They are a highly inconvenient weapon.
Cav needs more manueverability, not less. It is already too easy for people to just jump out of the way of swords, lances, and couching.
Ask cyranule who he hates to meet in the fray of battle.Not just cyranule, pretty much any skilled 2her/polearm user.
poke poke poke
With the nerf to throwing horses are running around unafraid. Either rebuff a range type to deal with this menace or nerf horses.
Rebuffing a range type to deal with horses is an option haha.Throwing is crap.... Dont throw.... it isnt good at all,
Damn you're crying hard Native.... :?Natives cant cry unless you throw your trash on the floor!
Natives cant cry unless you throw your trash on the floor!
i just use a bow now, just pew pew lol dont want people to throw, it isnt worth it at all in anyway.... have you tryed it since the hot fix? I would tell you not too, but you might want to try it and see how bad it is, anyways throwing is crap since strat is coming back so might as well just do something ells, anyways..... cav is a tad stronger now since they are fast and there only counter left is bowmen/xbowmen... but since xbows and bows where buffed i think ponys might not be a huge threat... then again ponys can pwn bowmen/xbows so idk
I have tried it, and I'm still satisfied with my wardarting. A headshot is a headshot is a headshot and it kills just the same (except for the notable str stacker like walrus who ends up with a pinnochio nose from the dart in his face) as it always has. Yes, lances were nerfed. I don't have any sympathy there as I've been saying from day 1 of their inception that they needed to go away, as did any and all ranged weapons that could 1-shot body kill (this included Jarids/Spears and in rare cases axes and javs).wardarts are the only throwing weapon left that is good lol
It's not their only counter. Since the rise in cav I've taken Vyrus from 1h/xbow back to my 1h/polearm roots (hoplite - barbarian style) with a bamboo spear to go with my cleaver/shield and I've been tagging me cav left and right. Or they stop and get off of their horse to fight me on foot like a man.
I actually feel like I've seen more pikes now, than ever before. My only guess as to why this is, is that there are indeed less natural predators.
Hmm, pikes certainly were on the rise tonight. I saw Goretooth using one, I mean... Wow...Feels good man, the winds of change make the temperature just right.
Easily the biggest horse predator is awareness.
This could not be more true. Just now I took down a horse with a Military pick (Probably the shortest weapon in game) just by looking behind me with the Tilder key,
Feels good man, the winds of change make the temperature just right.Except that now it's ten times harder for me to pull off 3v1s! God damn long pokey thingers!
Just wait, With the increased pikemen you'll see cav crying they are too weak in a few weeks ;)*
*If the the team sticks together like they should. Particularly archers, who run off alone expecting to not die to cav? really?
MORE maneuverability? Breaking after a charge and turning on a dime an infinite number of times isn't agile enough, added to the reach of lances making it quite possible to hit even dodging infantry?I am wondering why no one commented on that one.
The latest patch just made javelins 2 slot items rendering them pretty much useless just like jarids and throwing spears.
Javalry is officially dead.
Heaven forbid anything should be even semi-able to combat Horse Archers on their own terms.
:rolleyes:
This man feels my pain... We are losing individuality and uniqueness :P For cavalry we now have only 2 effective builds - Melee cav and Horse Archer -
I'm assuming you're talking about cavalry builds. I tend to agree if this is the case. If you are referring to infantry as well, I disagree.
Warspear and Heavy Heater Shield works perfect as anti cavalry defence, while protected enough vs archers. And a sword for sidearm.a quote from a cav person, telling you to use a spear&shield combo that is outranged by every lance carried by cavalry.
Learn to use that combo, pronto.
Do it, do it now.
Look its really fucking simple, instead of being alone, travel with a buddy.
Make sure this buddy has a shield.
If the horse couch lances your friend and breaks the shield, he will be unable to do anything but maneuver away, this is your time to strike.
If the horse rams into your friend, he may start swinging at you, this is the time for you to block and your friend to get back up and strike.
If the horse rams both you and your friend, he will be stopped for a short duration, this is the time for both you and your friend to strike.
If you are alone, with no shield, do not jump up into the air as you are about to be lanced, you may try and down block if the lance is not couched. Find some terrain to hide behind instead.
If you have a spear and shield combo that is outranged by every lance and find yourself being killed, you are not doing it right.
The reason people aren't as good against cavalry as they are against 1H/2H/Polearms is because nobody ever wants to duel a horse 1v1 on the duel servers, so nobody has developed any tactics or maneuvers except for the most experienced players.
Never travel alone because a cav will sneak up and eat you from behind. Especially true on maps with heavy fog.
The reason people aren't as good against cavalry as they are against 1H/2H/Polearms is because nobody ever wants to duel a horse 1v1 on the duel servers, so nobody has developed any tactics or maneuvers except for the most experienced players.
a quote from a cav person, telling you to use a spear&shield combo that is outranged by every lance carried by cavalry.I am completely serious. When it's a cavalry map, my typical loadout as when I choose to be infantry is Heavy Heater shield, Warspear and Knightly Arming Sword. Warspear + shield is a terrific combat support combo, because you can essentially dictate how far a person will penetrate a front line by thrusting the point into their chests. Targetting the 2 handed folk is so much fun, as you can swirv the point past your teammate and poke the guy who just tried to do a overhead strike. Forcing them to do lowblocks constantly really makes them shifty to any of your teammates using the opportunity.
convincing argument, I must say.
Awlpike is just barely long enough to beat cav, and bamboo is indeed anti cav with a shield.
2. Two handed sword? Side step out of the couches' reach, and side swipe the feet of the cavalryman. Usually an instant kill. Alternatively, get right in front of the horse where he can't couch you and just swing at them.
3. Medium reach pole arm? Same as #2.
Now, the issue with horses being very maneuverable
Lancers can only lance you during a certain timing interval as they charge past you. If on the off chance they go slow to negate that timing window, you just block then slash them.
If they go the normal cav way of full speed lancing, you exploit that timing window.
Fun fact: the lance thrust timing window is the exact same time as the overhead chamber window. With a short amount of practice you can chamber EVERY thrust with overheads and hit the horse's rear, dehorsing them. Most of the time the horse can clear out of your range as they pass you, but not if you stand near any obstacles, on a slope, etc.
I was saying that other shield spear combos are much more effective vs cavalry, and that war spear only works if the lancers have bad timing. This is hardly up for debate.
If a heavy lance cav has proper release timing on his attacks, you can never, and I repeat NEVER get the attack on him with the just-too-short warspear.
Marathon, any cav require constant attention from infantry player.yes, and I say they need their maneuverability lowered to fix the stupid issues. In exchange for much lowered maneuverability, a raise to charge, armor, and HP. Making cavalry more resilient and more capable of traditional cavalry tactics like cavalry charges. But no stupid bullshit.
Cav can just focus on infantry nearby, and avoid every threat.
2 or 3 cav that use teamwork have almost assured kill against lone infantry (3 infantry cant kill lone cav, can't even touch it). Which means cav can just rambo all he want, and he have edge against any non-pikeman. By definition cavalry IS imbalanced.
Ok, now that is a stupid counter-argument. You should definitely have some infantry vs. horse dueling practice.
I have everyone I know do duel v horse training with their weapons (with 2handed sword, pole arm, 1hander) It is a match up like all the others that happens on a regular basis in battles. You can't let it be a gaping weak spot in your skill set.
Lancers can only lance you during a certain timing interval as they charge past you. If on the off chance they go slow to negate that timing window, you just block then slash them.
If they go the normal cav way of full speed lancing, you exploit that timing window.
Fun fact: the lance thrust timing window is the exact same time as the overhead chamber window. With a short amount of practice you can chamber EVERY thrust with overheads and hit the horse's rear, dehorsing them. Most of the time the horse can clear out of your range as they pass you, but not if you stand near any obstacles, on a slope, etc.
If they attempt to couch you, that depends on your weapon as to what you do about it.
1. Short onehander? Get out of the way of the couch -- whether it be right in front or way off to the side. Anything else is a huge gamble. Lancers counter you.
2. Two handed sword? Side step out of the couches' reach, and side swipe the feet of the cavalryman. Usually an instant kill. Alternatively, get right in front of the horse where he can't couch you and just swing at them.
3. Medium reach pole arm? Same as #2.
4. Long pole arm like bamboo spear, long spear, pike? Just stab the front of the horse to stop it, and kill the guy. No issue here.
"Oh, but I am having trouble vs 1h and 2h cavalry"
They have shorter effective reach when on a horse compared to on foot. They are extremely easy to kill. This is self explanatory.
"Very well, but I am losing to several cavalry attacking me at once!"
Well, yeah. You are outnumbered 3 to one (for example). Why should you win in that scenario? If you do everything right you WILL still win, but good luck. same for any 3 on 1.
Now, the issue with horses being very maneuverable so they can circle people forever until a chance to stab them? Yeah that is stupid and horse maneuverability should be lowered just to prevent that. They shouldn't just hover right outside weapons reach.
Pls dont tell me how easy it is to kill a horseman cause i know how to do it and your tips only work if horsemans are making errors or suck. I know you are a horseman and tbh if i want tips how to kill one i dont need your tips because in your eyes it is totally fair all the time. In your eyes the cav-heirloom nerf was gimping horses to death etc. etc. etc. Its ok that you are defending your class. I probably would do it in some cases for my class too.This paragraph could not be more wrong. Did you actually read my posts?
99% of horsekills vs me areA) You are outnumbered and losing. If it were another infantry behind you, the result would be the same.
if i am
a) fighting vs other people
b) dont hear them and are killed from behind
c) im lying down on the floor cause a) or b) didnt kill but bump me.
PS: I dont know if its too good to raise charge again to that unhealthy lvl it once had.I'm not suggesting a huge increase in charge, something like 5 more damage to all horses. A considerable decrease in maneuverability would also solve the complaint that cav are "too fast" because they would have to take prominent lines and slow down for tight turns.
I agree with you that horses should lose some speed and maneuverabilty while getting some hp/armor love.
But horse can be alone. Thats called imbalance. Infantry need to play carefully, cavalry can play careless, and even if it find itself in bad position, it can recover fast.
But horse can be alone. Thats called imbalance. Infantry need to play carefully, cavalry can play careless, and even if it find itself in bad position, it can recover fast.
The only random factor would be ping. So long as your ping isn't fluctuating by more than 10 in battle, that isn't a random factor either.I agree that with a little practice you can chamber most/almost all lances, but as I said earlier, for very little gain. Chambering and then hitting (that is quite rare tbh, horses are fast) the horse will very rarily result in Mr Cav getting dehorsed (horse must be wounded), and seeing that you are capable of chambering his lances, he'll probably just leave you alone. (or circle-lollance you, making your fancy cambers useless). But I disagree with ping being the only random factor, laggs really screw you up.
As for war spear being just barely too short for dehorsing cav when used with a shield. Yeah? What about it? That is not an issue since longer ones do it fine.
I play infantry, not cavalry. I usually use a pike.
I never feel at a disadvantage in a fight vs cavalry unless I have a 1hander (or other short weapon) and am alone. This doesn't happen, ever.In this context "short" means "outranged by lance". I can see you have no problems against cav since you are constantly chugging along a four meter pole, which means that any decent cav will just ignore you. That is untill you drop this big pole (maybe because playing infantry, you might actually wanna do some melee combat?) and suddenly you are either defenseless vs cav or immobile.
A) You are outnumbered and losing. If it were another infantry behind you, the result would be the same.
I'm not suggesting a huge increase in charge, something like 5 more damage to all horses. A considerable decrease in maneuverability would also solve the complaint that cav are "too fast" because they would have to take prominent lines and slow down for tight turns.
Nah you wrong, watch some horses charge in alone against actual good players, it's a nice laugh. Also you'll notice most good lancers don't charge in by themselves, they wait for you to be distracted with something else or to distract you themselves for other lancers or members of their team to get ya.
For me, the primary issue with horses is not that they lack effective counters, it's that their presence force upon others a very strict style of gameplay (stick together in a big blob, bring alot of pikes, bring alot of ranged...), something no other class does.
I never drop my pike unless I am alone and not against cav. Since I travel with teammates, that is rare and I drop my pike in at most 10% of battles. [Hint: That means we lost the battle.]
The counter against cavalry is teamwork and battlefield awareness. Cavalrymen are dashing individualists who play mind games with the little guys :D. Their mentality is on a higher plane than the infantry because the range of their movement is greater (They see the big picture of the battlefield). Infantrymen should generally lose to horseman one on one. If the infantry players moved in tighter formations, then cav would be less of an issue.
WHAT I AM TELLING YOU GUYS IS TO USE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. JUST WORK TOGETHER, YOU ARE MORE EFFECTIVE THAT WAY VS INFANTRY, ARCHERS, AND CAVALRY TOO.
The counter against cavalry is teamwork and battlefield awareness. Cavalrymen are dashing individualists who play mind games with the little guys :D. Their mentality is on a higher plane than the infantry because the range of their movement is greater (They see the big picture of the battlefield). Infantrymen should generally lose to horseman one on one. If the infantry players moved in tighter formations, then cav would be less of an issue.
I'm not completely sure...30 pikemen? My HA would absolutely LOVE a team of 30 pikemen
Do you mean a team of, say 30 pikemen will win over a team of 30 cavalry if the pikemen just stick together?
30 pikemen? My HA would absolutely LOVE a team of 30 pikemen
Im doing my best to fix this problem but I've only got 8 throwing spears. 6 if I use jarids.
I had an unarmoured horse take 4 heavy throwing axes (3 in the arse, 1 in the neck) to put down today...then it took another 2 to put the rider down.
3/4s of my ammo on a single kill...oh yeah!
:?
Oh yeah I know that arse hits don't do TOO much, the more obvious problem being even if I had hit the bloody thing in the head twice it would have been half my ammo gone. It's a well known problem though hence hardly anyone throwing anymore.
:mrgreen:
that throwing is a total waste of time is not the cavmans fault, but the recent patch uber nerf on throwing, i have feeling that will be fixed soon though ;)nope, just let the shitty throwers spam it more.... but then why use skill when u can spam right?
Or a dehorsed cavman often doesn't stand a chance against a pure melee build.
Unless the cav is a complete pleb that fails at character building the difference between a cav and an infantry in melee stat-wise is almost completely negligable.
...except for the 5 or 6 points he has to spend in riding. That's a noticeable difference.
Cav is primarily balanced around gold... which is a shitty balancing system, since they can just grind a few rounds to afford their pony.
Unless the cav is a complete pleb that fails at character building the difference between a cav and an infantry in melee stat-wise is almost completely negligable.
Depends on the build. If you're a dedicated HA or lancer, then you don't stand much chance on foot against a melee player. HA's don't have athletics, so you can't out run most melee players, neither do they have any kind of wpf in 1h/2h and lancers have all their points in polearm wpf. So unless they pick up a polearm, it's quite difficult to get kills as a downed lancer. I've seen a few people wield a lance effectively on foot, but still not well enough to beat decent melee players.
That difference in WPF allocation and lack of athletics makes a big difference on the battlefield.
I'd argue that only 1h+shield cav stands a chance on foot, and there aren't actually as many of those around and I tend to think of them as melee men who have found a horse, rather than actually dedicated cav players.
Depends on the build. If you're a dedicated HA or lancer, then you don't stand much chance on foot against a melee player. HA's don't have athletics, so you can't out run most melee players, neither do they have any kind of wpf in 1h/2h and lancers have all their points in polearm wpf. So unless they pick up a polearm, it's quite difficult to get kills as a downed lancer.
I've seen a few people wield a lance effectively on foot, but still not well enough to beat decent melee players.
That difference in WPF allocation and lack of athletics makes a big difference on the battlefield.
I'd argue that only 1h+shield cav stands a chance on foot, and there aren't actually as many of those around and I tend to think of them as melee men who have found a horse, rather than actually dedicated cav players.
As for the suggestions on nerfing manoeuvrability, that's another suggestion that makes no sense. The OP (other thread) writer said it well in that dedicated horsemen know how to manage their speed. A full speed courser cannot turn, simple. I use one as a HA and I can assure you, at full speed, if a lancer cuts across me, or a pikeman appears, I cannot turn out the way fast enough. The only reason I can usually is because I very rarely ride at full speed unless to get away from enemy horsemen whilst shooting them. When it comes to killing infantry, most cavalrymen will rarely use full speed and so it appears that their manoeuvring ability is far greater than it actually is.
For me, the primary issue with horses is not that they lack effective counters, it's that their presence force upon others a very strict style of gameplay (stick together in a big blob, bring alot of pikes, bring alot of ranged...), something no other class does.
I was playing on a game with a couple of other cav and such and my colleague here, Overdriven, a heavy armoured cav player and oberyn of the mercs were all trying to kill me after overdriven downed my horse. By a bit of careful play and moving towards my team mates not only did I manage to hold off the cav assault of 3 cav on me for about a minute (which in a battle of 6 is a key amount of time) but I also managed to reach my team mates, from there on my own I managed to fend off those 3 from the backs of my team mates... Now if I can do this with just a light lance and some help from a shielder I think it proves that cav is only as effective as the infantry lets them be.
You infantry want to be free from the responsibility of looking out for cav.
Conclusion : As soon as people stop caring about K/d's and more the wellfare of the team, we'll see a lot more dead horsemen on the field
As said, cav force upon entire teams a certain style of play, something no other class does. And that is not balance.
Also, the scenario you pictured is pretty much the ideal one for effective use of a pike (as the only thing you needed to do was to deny them that little area)
I too can hold off cav (not kill them, just deny them the space around me...), but it requires dedication, and comletely denies me the opportunity to play the game I want to play (melee)
False : Archers will cause more people to take shields if possible or alternatively more ranged / cav (if a flat map)
Shielders will cause 2h's to take axes if they have any intelligence to negate the protection via shield
2h's will cause an increase in ranged (in previous patches throwers)
Cav will cause people to take high ground and be more aware / take pikes? (in theory at least :P)
The ideal scenario being I was fighting cav? :P this was on a pretty open map though i admit the trees helped initially as i moved towards my own team to support. And if i can deter cav from the back of some nicely grouped infantry, providing a relatively standard area to cover, just some awareness on my part and some assistance from archers did the job.
I make my point :P It doesnt take a large amount of wpf in polearm (if any) or powerstrike to effectively deter cavalry, so you can very feasibly take a 1h/shield with a war spear (and dont say thats not long enough because I use a warspear on foot and cav very rarely try anything if you point it at them) or additionally a 2h/ war spear. You dont have to fully dedicate yourself to the cause to make life a lot harder for cav. Cav need specialisation to become capable cavalry, while almost anyone can be an effective cav deterant / spear wielder with no specialisation.
Archers : Do not force me to take a shield (it helps, but it's def not a req to fight archers, 2h can be considered "weak" vs them tho), allows me to pick whatever weapon I want to use, I can roam the map freely and ninja them, stick with the group and slug it out in a melee fest, or maybe aid my team in placing ladders or w/e, point is, I have a bunch of options. Same thing for my team, everyone and their playstyle can be effective.
Shielders: Do not force upon me a certain type of equipment, can be beat with any weapon (pure archers will have a harder time, but can atleast run away). I can feint them, crush them with a hammer, break their shields with an axe or whatever. I can flank, I can stick with the group, I can camp (for whatever reason...), - again a bunch of options. Same thing goes for my team, once again everyone and their playstyle can be effective.
2h/poles: I can beat them with any weapon of choice, (no class is really "weak" against them, shielders vs axes only plausible example). I can flank, stick with the group, camp, ninja etc... No playstyle restrictions. Same thing goes for the team, no special class or playstyle is needed (except for maybe skill? :p).
Cav then: Forces either me or teammates to use pikes for defence, force me/my team to use ranged to actually bring them down. Disallows major flanking or ninja, forces my team to stck together in a big blob... (Unsupported with pikes, infantry with shorter weapons are helpless, archers (non-roofcamping!), are weak to them due to lack of block and bump, 1h-shield cav is also very weak against lancers and HA...)
I think you get the point.
I'm going to second this as well. For most of my characters, I have a single setup for equipment. The only time I really deviate from that setup is if the opposing team is uses cavalry. If they have horses, you absolutely need to change your gear.
Yeah, you can take your regular setup and accept that you are defenceless against horses.
FYI, warspear gets outranged by heavy lance head-on (needs to be fixed imo), and while the combo does not need lots of wpf, it takes up 3-4 slots (and you need atleast 1 shield skill, unless you want your shield to break after 1 hit), and urges you to go down the 1h-shield route (awlpike works much better for the purpose, but then you are almost forced to use a 1h).
Yes, he just avoids your hoplite... He forces you into a strict playstyle, you force him to avoid your closest perimeter. (not really since your warspear is too short, but I'm presuming it's an awlpike here)
Cav does not need specilazation to become effective... The only difference between a dehorsed rider and dedicated melee inf is IF...
If you are defenseless against horses when you do not have a pike then that is your problem I believe.
I know many who are not.
Downblock, 7 athletics, and spacebar are all I need to laugh at cav so long as there are only 3 or less trying to kill me at any given time. Hell, I dodged 3 cav chasing me down while I was naked with a long dagger for 1 minute before they got bored. Maybe its because I'm a cav player and I understand how they move, but whenever I play my xbow with a backup langes messer I can kill most horses and then their riders on the NA servers, or at least bore them until they leave me alone long enough for me to reload my xbow.
Sounds like all the infantry and all the other fighters ignored you being completely defenseless while you were constantly focused on the cavalry. That normally doesn't happen. Also, sounds like you were facing bad cavalry that never tried to couch their lance. Get rid of 3 bad cav, replace with 2 average cav and you would die as first horsebumps you (no fear of a silly langes messer), second lances you while you are prone on the ground. Or just 1 good cav, quickly kills you and then moves on to rape the rest of your team with easy kills on ahighly maneuverable horse using a polearm longer than an awlpike getting 35-2.how many times do u see super nobbie get a killz 30 sec into the match?
I heard that horse is actually quite the nice meal. So... horse steak anyone :twisted:
I rarely see any single cav doing as well as described. Most averagely skilled cav get 4 or 5 kills and then their horse dies. . I do my best to make that number less but it depends on the horse and the number of them since I run out of spears so quickly. I am a hybrid thrower/accountant now. The only people I see getting swaths of kills like that are tripple heirloomed plated charger riders, with a shield and plate armor, riding around chopping.
Which means they will average 16-4 on a map. If "average" archers were going 16-4 and and the "skilled" were going 32-1, they would be nerfed so hard that their kids next fps would feel the impact. ANY class where the "average" skilled player has a 4:1 K/D ratio and the top 10% has 20:1 would have been nerfed into oblivion long ago. That number speaks far louder than any counter arguments made in favor of keeping the status quo.
An additional point :P Very rarely have I heard of someone who has seen a change in their environment (that being the battlefield, general life, a game or even nature [see evolution]) say 'well I'm not changing my playstyle' and come out on top (pro tip they usually lose [see Neanderthals]) :P
Then why haven't 2h been nerfed? I see 2h top the scoreboards with scores like that far more than cav players and yet no one ever nerfs them and as soon as it's suggested there is uproar.
um what? You're obviously not a 2h user, because they got a good whack with the nerfing stick recently regarding their thrusts.
2h is the only class I don't have an alt for at the moment, and even I can see how much this is affecting them. Their thrusts whiff a lot more often now than they ever did before.
2h is in a pretty good place right now in my opinion. Not too strong or weak.
um what? You're obviously not a 2h user, because they got a good whack with the nerfing stick recently regarding their thrusts.
2h is the only class I don't have an alt for at the moment, and even I can see how much this is affecting them. Their thrusts whiff a lot more often now than they ever did before.
2h is in a pretty good place right now in my opinion. Not too strong or weak.
Regarding the thrust? That wasn't a nerf...that was just making the damn thing sensible. The thrusts were massively OP before. But that doesn't matter, the point being 2H are still top of the server a huge amount of the time compared to any other class, except maybe cav. So why shouldn't they be nerfed more. It's the same argument as the cav argument about cav having the top scores all the time.
Regarding the thrust? That wasn't a nerf...that was just making the damn thing sensible.
Then otoh if you look on the top of the list you can often see good 2h doing insane scores (saw Phyrex 2nd time this day with 40-5). If you are looking at it, yeah, 2h have been nerfed, but like cavalry the slot system favors them quite a bit, since they have the same counters (crossbow/throwing/pikes).
As the title of the thread says, the topic is that horse have no natural predators anymore.
Gorath, 1h with spear (war or red tassel one) can deal with majority of horseman. But against good cavalry that know how to use it's heavy lance, it's useless. Also, horses one hit kill people. If you stop the horse with spear, you have to attack again twice to finish off light horses or more for armored (which means, you have to hold the horseman twice). After you killed the horse, you might have one free hit - with spear and 1h it's unlikely it's going to kill cav (keep in mind that any horseman worth it's salt is autokilling you if you made even small mistake, and can ninja'd you or disengage).
So yeah, horses have free reign right now.
Honestly, any player worth his or her salt can take down a cav player if they know what they are doing. True, a cav player can get the drop on someone and ninja them, but so can most classes, minus the clapping of hooves running at them. Cav only becomes an issue when you have a critical mass of cavalry on one team while the other has limited to none. But this issue can even be said with range of any kind. Even when im not on my crossbow character, I can bring them down with relative ease with my 2 hander(the really good cav players are abit tougher but not impossible by any means). You can say that an overwhelming number of cav players is an issue, but an overwhelming number of most classes on any one team is a huge issue for any team to deal with.
Honestly, any player worth his salt can take down average cav player. But the requirement is that cav player have to make a mistake or don't know how to use his lance in proper way. Good player can survive against good lancer (if he have warspear, otherwise he will be couched), but killing the lancer ? No.
Cav is a very high risk play style
It is also very easy to team kill/screw your team over and ultimately yourself and your team as a result in many cases.
I lol'd
I lol'd again.
Srsly, the only way to hit a decent lancer with a weapon shorter than a pike is to chamber his lance. This also means that many times you won't get the free hit as you down his horse by the arse.
I have already said many of the things I want to say earlier in the thread (read if interested), but as it stands infantry needs to be able to actually combat horses on the battlefield (yes, by itself, I already know you can down a horse with pike and ranged support...). Charging non-pikemen infantry poses almost zero risk to a decent lancer nowadays.
Jesus christ dude...
Im sorry, but if you have to chamber a lancer lance in order to get a hit in on him, then you are seriously doing something wrong and should get some help. I haven't read your earlier posts as of yet, but if this post is any indicator of what i'm missing out on, then i'm going to assume you've never truly played cav or are just extremely biased. Unless you're on one of those armored bank breaking horses, most things are going to 1/2-shot hit you if you're going at them with any kind of speed. I won't mention how situational cav players are. Certain maps, going on horse back just isn't a smart option. It's much more convenient for infantry classes. Hell, even if it isn't a infantry map many 2 handed swords or some long 1 handers can bring down a charging cavalry player. If you want to bing out the Arabian horse and it's maneuverability, fine, but you're forgetting the a sharp blade of grass is damn-near likley to cause it fall apart. It's such a delicate horse. Again, this is coming from someone who has no love for cav; the new lance speed reduction has also made it more challenging for cav players. Sorry if you disagree, but Cav is in a good place atm in my opinion.
Cavalry =/= Lancers
Learn the difference.
Everyone is all OMG CAV IS OP!
This is not the case. Two handed cavalry, sword and board cavalry, throwing cavalry, horse archers. These are not overpowered.
Lancers are overpowered.
Once you've played long enough, you learn to check behind yourself every couple of seconds for cav. Do that, avoid areas like open fields that are bound to be cav ridden (no pun intended), and you really won't be troubled by cav any more than any other class. If you're playing battle, you have to be paranoid about cavalry and archers alike. Don't like that? play on the duel server.
It's a double standard though haha, because there is nothing out there that keeps horses paranoid. They get to run around freewilly.
You've been out of the saddle for far too long, chesty. Walls, pikes, archers, other horsemen. Honestly, this perception of horsemen as invincible superheroes is quite rediculous. My champion courser is about as fast as a native courser, my heirloomed heavy lance is about as fast as a native great lance, I can't carry a shield because my two weapons (lance and bec de corbin) take up all my slots, footmen can now wield an even longer pike, but noo we also need to be oneshot by throwing axes to be properly balanced. Seriously dude, wtf.
You've been out of the saddle for far too long, chesty. Walls, pikes, archers, other horsemen. Honestly, this perception of horsemen as invincible superheroes is quite rediculous. My champion courser is about as fast as a native courser, my heirloomed heavy lance is about as fast as a native great lance, I can't carry a shield because my two weapons (lance and bec de corbin) take up all my slots, footmen can now wield an even longer pike, but noo we also need to be oneshot by throwing axes to be properly balanced. Seriously dude, wtf.
You've been out of the saddle for far too long, chesty. Walls, pikes, archers, other horsemen. Honestly, this perception of horsemen as invincible superheroes is quite rediculous. My champion courser is about as fast as a native courser, my heirloomed heavy lance is about as fast as a native great lance, I can't carry a shield because my two weapons (lance and bec de corbin) take up all my slots, footmen can now wield an even longer pike, but noo we also need to be oneshot by throwing axes to be properly balanced. Seriously dude, wtf.
What are you crying about? That you can't have multiple 2 slot weapons + a shield? Get a one hander. Archers can't even carry a regular one hander and 2 stacks of arrows with the two best bows. Get a shield and it protects not only you, but somehow magically covers your entire horse from damage as well. Or are you suggesting that everyone else should have to modify their build to deal with cavalry, (carry a pike!) but cavalry should be the Swiss Army Knife of cRPG?Yes as they have a hose under them which means they should be able to carry way more stuff than infantry.
What are you crying about? That you can't have multiple 2 slot weapons + a shield? Get a one hander. Archers can't even carry a regular one hander and 2 stacks of arrows with the two best bows. Get a shield and it protects not only you, but somehow magically covers your entire horse from damage as well. Or are you suggesting that everyone else should have to modify their build to deal with cavalry, (carry a pike!) but cavalry should be the Swiss Army Knife of cRPG?OMG what a retard...
I think people are QQing over some cav that do very well
OP= anyone can do very well with little practice
that's not lancing
lancing takes practice
is the new pub cav starting c-rpg OP?
No
the truth is you can lolstab the shit out of 75% all cav out there today
seems people been lanced too much by that other 25% who know why they're doing.
Why is it not lancing?
Longest range attack on horseback
Highest damage attack on horseback
Best angle of attack on horseback
All you have to learn is the range of your lance and its speed so you know the timing. These two things are very easy to master. 22nd_Jesus made some crazy insta lvl 30 for the lulz and it was a lancer. He went from mid-high range in the kill list to getting all these crazy k/d ratios within a day.
What other type of attack allows you to one hit people at such range and speed? What other weapon gives you such freedom of attack direction?
---
I am primarily a sword and horseman when I ride my horse nowadays. I can tell you now I am at a large disadvantage when it comes to fighting lancers. I have to maneuver extremely carefully or I get stabbed and killed in one or two hits, same with my horse and I ride a destrier. I have to make sure I have a decent speed when I am striking against even medium armour and also that my position is good relative to my opponent or the attack just glances off. This is with the most powerful sword you can take on horseback, the longsword. This is also a problem that does not phase lancers. They can get fine strikes against me even when I am all in their face trying to stab them, even though the tip of their lance is like a metre behind me and I should be too close for them to be effective. Hell they can stab me and get good damage when I am riding away giving them a negative speed bonus, and if they have a positive speed bonus on their side? Well then I can wave good bye, while me getting those positive bonuses I still need multiple hits to defeat them.
But of course, lancers are meant to be good against other cavalry. I can accept the range and the damage. The two major problems IMO are the sweetspot mechanics allowing you to still stab a guy even when he is far too close, and the most important point the attack angle is ridiculously wide. The advantage of swords vs lances should be the attack angle and ability to fight when up close. This is not the case because of these two mechanics.
But how do they fare against infantry and the like compared to other types of cavalry? Obviously lancers have the one hit kill ability still, and if not they can definitely take a very large chunk of health away. They can do a lot more damage in one strike than ANY other type of cavalry. They also have the longest melee range of any other type of cavalry this once again gives them a key advantage. A skilled lancer can easily outrange almost any opponent if he plays carefully and the infantry lets him get a fine position. So they also have less risk than ANY other type of melee cavalry.
Please explain how more damage with less risk is not overpowered? In relation to other cavalry types. Please explain what about 1h and horse or 2h and horse equalises these great advantages ultimately bringing lancers level in terms of power.
Or you know, say some more random stuff backed up with no argument.
Jesus christ dude...
Im sorry, but if you have to chamber a lancer lance in order to get a hit in on him, then you are seriously doing something wrong and should get some help. I haven't read your earlier posts as of yet, but if this post is any indicator of what i'm missing out on, then i'm going to assume you've never truly played cav or are just extremely biased. Unless you're on one of those armored bank breaking horses, most things are going to 1/2-shot hit you if you're going at them with any kind of speed. I won't mention how situational cav players are. Certain maps, going on horse back just isn't a smart option. It's much more convenient for infantry classes. Hell, even if it isn't a infantry map many 2 handed swords or some long 1 handers can bring down a charging cavalry player. If you want to bing out the Arabian horse and it's maneuverability, fine, but you're forgetting the a sharp blade of grass is damn-near likley to cause it fall apart. It's such a delicate horse. Again, this is coming from someone who has no love for cav; the new lance speed reduction has also made it more challenging for cav players. Sorry if you disagree, but Cav is in a good place atm in my opinion.
The biggest threats to melee cav are: (in descending order)
Horse Archers, pikes, polearm users, archers(+throwers+xbowers), 2handers.
HA's and pikers are classes that the melee cav cant win over at all in a 1vs1.
Biggest threats to Horse archers:
Other horse archers, archers. (where archers are normally at a disadvantage, but they can still take down HA's)
As you can see, melee cavalry has a lot of "natural predators", though I still think throwing should get a little buff by reducing the penalty powerthrow makes on wpf. However, HA's have no real counters, except other HA's, which would then put them at an equal footing. (but getting countered by itself isnt really a counter)
So the title of this topic should be changed to: Horse archers have no natural predators
Anyway my real point was all these guys are complaining about "cavalry" but the real problem they are describing is that of lancers. It is easy and overpowered, even compared to other cavalry types (which are not massively challenging anyway if you play them wisely).
If the lancer is powerful even compared to the already strong general melee cavalry class then maybe it should be balanced?
Put the lance fix back like before all the whining got it reverted. It was better that way.
i'll tell you right now if that happens, lancing will die.
Not get nerfed so its not so easy mode
It will die out
IF that were the case it's only because cav are so used to easy mode, and WANT easy mode so badly that they refuse to adapt and learn to play using altered mechanics. IE: Problem with player mentality.
I disagreeThat's what 2hers said about the new stab animation too. They adapted just fine with it.
have you tried lancing with the terribad animation?
its horrendous
With no more cavalry chasing down archers, you get to fight more ranged! your fav i know :twisted:
However once the footman is aware and down-blocking the chance to kill him is rather low.
I agree with Huey, the original animation changes was too great the last patch, but it does seem strange that people can turn 270 degrees in the saddle and do full damage, maybe limiting the general turning ability on whoreback to 180 degrees and NOT some narrow 70 degrees window once you start a lance thrust.
The biggest threats to melee cav are: (in descending order)
Horse Archers, pikes, polearm users, archers(+throwers+xbowers), 2handers.
HA's and pikers are classes that the melee cav cant win over at all in a 1vs1.
So the title of this topic should be changed to: Horse archers have no natural predators
Horse archers actually do so much less damage than lancers and if you just dodge left or right can avoid the arrows, you can't avoid lancers. Pre-Janaury not a big deal to avoid a lance thrust by moving into the horse and being trampled or moving away on the other side at the last moment, but since January its become almost impossible to avoid the gigantic hitboxes of lances even when you are trampled you are hit. Part of this is the overall lower levels of everyone so less athletics, but riders have 2x or more of riding skill than they used to. I'm not sure how the developers calculated it, but -2 speed/maneuverability compared to +3-4 riding skill, cavalry is both faster and more maneuverable since January. Riding skill matters a lot more than -2 speed on 52 speed horse (4% decrease), a lot could be fixed just by making the riding skilla 6 agility requirement and reducing horse's riding requirement by 1. I'd much rather have more cavalry on battlefield with realistic abilities than fewer cavalry with superhuman (superhorse?) maneuverability and speed.
Again, all the more reason infantry should have double tapped movements (lunges, dodges, etc).i agree with this, and as stated before on another cav whine nerf cav, remove the loljump that people in plate with 2her can preform in which they jump over my horse and me n kill me.*edit* if you nerf cav that is
i agree with this, and as stated before on another cav whine nerf cav, remove the loljump that people in plate with 2her can preform in which they jump over my horse and me n kill me.*edit* if you nerf cav that is
you can't avoid lancers.
Just lift your lance an inch and those jumpers die pretty easily, lance hitboxes are defintiely large enough to cover jumpers.
You're doing it wrong.
Lancers are a very strong class, no doubt about that, but can be countered by using your brain.
I got both, a dedicated lancer and a dedicated sword&board horseman. I play them with most likely the same efficiency.
Most likely?
Sword&board has the higher skill ceiling and feels stronger at low speed and against semi- or unaware groups.
Feels stronger? As opposed to "Is stronger"?
How exactly is a multi hit to kill attack stronger than a high probability 1/2 hit kill? Against an unaware opponent all other things being equal surely the attack with he highest probability of a 1 hit kill is stronger...
How is the sword better at low speed than the lance? Maybe against low or no armour targets but otherwise I believe the piercing damage trumps cutting damage, even when marginally lower. Against medium or heavy armour the lance is most certainly stronger at pretty much any speed on account of its armour piercing abilities.
It's even possible to kill several in one go. The bumpslash allows them to fight some aware targets better than the stab only lance cavalry, depending on the skill and arms of the victim. A bump-slash is alot easier to pull off than the bumbstab. On a related note the one-handed stab on horseback is surprisingly efficient. Furthermore the 1h+shield rider make half-decent footmen once dehorsed and don't have to change to a side weapon like lancers have to. Their disadvantage clearly is cav duel where the lancer have the crucial reach advantage.
What is stopping the lancer from taking a sidearm and being just as efficient when dehorsed? What about having to pull out a sidearm makes a disadvantage when dehorsed? You can change weapon whilst on the ground and be up standing with your sword out just the same as someone who has a 1h as their primary weapon.
Also I believe it is possible for any class to "kill several in one go". That it is possible for a sword and horseman to kill a few guys does not mean it is not easier for a lancer.
The bumpslash is a good advantage but a bump stab is far from impossible. However these bump attacks are very risky as they require you to get extremely close to your opponent. Furthermore both classes can utilise them so the point is? If it is that the sword and horseman can do it a bit more easily then what about all the many things the lancer can do more eaisly?
The lancer on the other hand profits the most from high speeds and the couch is a good tool to take out unaware tincans with one attack. However they don't have the "cadenz" that is needed to deal with a group of footmen quickly. A single unmounted target that seems unaware is easier and with less risk taken out because of the range of the lance that makes it harder for the footman to surprise the horseman with a fake. The 1h cavalry have to take higher risks here. However once the footman is aware and down-blocking the chance to kill him is rather low.
And a sword and horseman can deal with a group of footmen quickly? If anyone can do this it is surely the lancer with the unblockable couch attack which equalises any perceived easiness in down-blocking as opposed to side blocking. It is not like it is much harder to do a side block against a sword and horseman than it is to downblock against a lancer, of course it is somewhat easier, but try and block the couch.
I don't see the need to change anything here.
Pre-January I would agree with you, I actually annoyed a lot of cavalry how often I could avoid them despite them gunning for me or hunting me down. But the advantages are all on their side of the court at this point where 7 athletics is high now, but 5 riding is low (used to be reverse) where their horse not only has more speed than your footman (makes sense, though now they have far more speed than any ordinary horse), but also turns on a dime and is more maneuverable than a footman (doesn't make any sense, unless horses can't break their ankles when switching 180 degrees at near full speed). Yes, it is possible 1 out of 5 times to avoid the lance, but then they just instantly turn their horse and lance again from behind you or go a little ways away, then ride full speed in a couched lance that outdistances any weapon you might use, unless you are a dedicated pikeman.not true, i have 20 wpf in polearm and i can stop a coucher with an boar spear (time it right and aim for the horses head), if he has an heavy lance, u use an warspear or awlpike, only when he has an jousting lance, u need a pike, bamboo, long awlpike or another lance to counter him.
i'd say limit lancing to a 120 degree arc directly in front of the lancer.Reasonable
No more lancing backwards
No more lancing while making tight turns
Lancers are no longer OP
But lancing wouldn't be impossible
However if this is doneBut most of what you listed are light enough that people could jump and swing with it though.
PLEASE DONT ALLOW PEOPLE TO JUMP AND ATTACK WITH BIGASS WEAPONS
Such as
Pikes
Long Spears
All greatswords
Heavy great long axe (that weapon needs to be unbalanced)
Bigass bardiches
Basically use your imagination
If you don't think balton can lift and swing it while jumping, noone should be able to
ReasonableBut most of what you listed are light enough that people could jump and swing with it though.
A greatsword is what, 8-14lbs? You can't jump and swing 8-14lbs? Don't need to be buff, unless you're a cripple anyone should be able to do this.
for balance sake
not realism sake
if we want realism, i kill you every time you get trampled by by 1500 pound horsey at 50 mph
-_-
if lancing is nerfed then the lolstab/jump should too
for balance sake
also
you cant deny jumping and stabbing a pike or long spear isnt flat out retarded
Hmm, I just had a rather interesting idea that could even been done without WSE. What bugs me the most with lancing is that it is best to aim for the horse in a mounted duel hoping to magically hit both the rider and the mount at the same time. So what if hitting a horse with a lance for more than 20 damage while being mounted forces the lance to be dropped? We have the dropping mechanic and the trigger for that so it should be possible. It would kinda simulate that the lance gets stuck in a mountain of flesh when the impact is to great, making it impossible to keep the one-handed grip on the it.
OMG what a retard...
All you have to do to avoid cav rape is down blocking ffs.If cav couches which makes em really vulnerable against any stuff longer than 100,try to be a man and kill him.Also don't play like a retard and try to hear the voices on battlefield.React your environment and your teammates.I don't understand how people still post these comments.
War is simple if you are stupid,you are dead.
Do you think people of Iraq quit fighting cuz USA have OP jets ?
Stop crying like a lil girl and fight you worthless peasant .
Quote from: Rumblood on Today at 06:12:53
What are you crying about? That you can't have multiple 2 slot weapons + a shield? Get a one hander. Archers can't even carry a regular one hander and 2 stacks of arrows with the two best bows. Get a shield and it protects not only you, but somehow magically covers your entire horse from damage as well. Or are you suggesting that everyone else should have to modify their build to deal with cavalry, (carry a pike!) but cavalry should be the Swiss Army Knife of cRPG?
I am actually content with the way they are now and honestly couldn't ask for any more balancing from the dev team apart from something to help the poor throwers.
HURRRRR HOERS
Notice the dead footmen underneath the cavalry, I think cavalry is well enough realistic as is and should be given speed and maneuverability bonuses if anything.
And all this talk of dropping your lance when you hit someone with it is silly.
Notice the dead footmen underneath the cavalry, I think cavalry is well enough realistic as is and should be given speed and maneuverability bonuses if anything.
And all this talk of dropping your lance when you hit someone with it is silly.
Notice the dead footmen underneath the cavalry, I think cavalry is well enough realistic as is and should be given speed and maneuverability bonuses if anything.
And all this talk of dropping your lance when you hit someone with it is silly.
Uh, why?? Cavalry is not easy mode enough for you. In-game horses are faster and more maneuverable than any real horse ever could be.
All but the lightest lances were actually designed for 1 time charges as the 10 foot WOODEN pole would splinter on contact with most mail but not before leaving a jagged wound in someone. Then the sword would be drawn and they actually would be real cav. No lance could survive more than 1-2 full couches into a target they just ahd too much force behind them and they would get stuck (why couched lances SHOULD have a lot more damage than random lollance thrusting from horseback). Lances were designed for the initial massed horse charge not for repeated thrusts (unless it was much later in history and they used light lances then).
Notice the dead footmen underneath the cavalry, I think cavalry is well enough realistic as is and should be given speed and maneuverability bonuses if anything.
And all this talk of dropping your lance when you hit someone with it is silly.
You're right. It should shatter and disappear with no chance to be picked back up again! :wink:
and if you try and block using a wooden weapon the game should just uninstall itself for how much of an idiot you are.
Yup. Because spears and polearms were NEVER ever used on the battlefield due to their tendency to disintigrate upon contact with anything metal......
owait
*blocking is about deflection, not taking the brunt force impact of the attack. hurrr durrrr*
Even if you take the force, most of it ends up transfer into your hands.
Yup. Because spears and polearms were NEVER ever used on the battlefield due to their tendency to disintigrate upon contact with anything metal......
Before every round roll a die, if the die is less than 3, you fail your check and have died of dysentery.
Spears and polearms generally werent used by a single soldier running around trying to defeat the entire enemy army by himself.
Ok.... which weapon was? :rolleyes:
Flambergs! Duh! Its true, I saw it in an anime once!
No natural predator?
Pike?
Long Spear?
Long Bow?
No natural predator?
Pike?
Long Spear?
Long Bow?
Pike? Rarely seen
Long spear? Yes
Long bow? more of a major annoyance really.
Ahem? How about them fallen archers, that's a two shot for both my horse and I, 3 if I realize I'm horribly fucked and try and go the other way.
Ahem? How about them fallen archers, that's a two shot for both my horse and I, 3 if I realize I'm horribly fucked and try and go the other way.<3
I see so many long spears and pikes, I myself currently play as a pikeman quite often and i can tell you most clans have at least one or two guys running around with a long spear quite regularly.
Also unless i'm riding a destrier my horse will die from two shots from most bows, ranged is by far what does the most damage to cavalry.
I see so many long spears and pikes, I myself currently play as a pikeman quite often and i can tell you most clans have at least one or two guys running around with a long spear quite regularly.
Also unless i'm riding a destrier my horse will die from two shots from most bows, ranged is by far what does the most damage to cavalry.
No natural predator?
Pike?
Long Spear?
Long Bow?
+
Other lancers?
Horse archers?
Upkeep?
My champion cataphract horse laughs when the arrows hit them.
My avatar have only one target day by day , my old friendchhers. My personal kill record was 8 my old friendcchers included 2 ha per round, most of them have tunnel vision and low armor protection , perfect victims . Whoever says arrows are a problem for cav .... l2p . My champion cataphract horse laughs when the arrows hit them.
As for your cataphract, considering the stupid high cost of the thing I certainly hope that it does give you a fantastic edge against most opponents, chadz knows you earned it.
I CBF reading this thread but when I'm on horse I am definitely having an easier time thanks to less throwers on the field due to the uber throw nerf