Horses have no natural predators

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Tommy, Tolben and Oberyn are some of the best cav players out there because they understand that the less you see of them the more you will dismiss them as a threat. For example Tolben takes a champion courser, allowing him to race in take a kill and clear out of range before your average archer has stopped aiming at the naked peasant for an easy kill. If you know where the cavalry is and where he/ she is going to strike from then unless you have no anti cav weapon then it is more than easy to deter him for the next minute, which in battle standards is long enough to turn the whole battle with said players as cav

[Chagan_Arslan]

Pikes do not stop cavalry. They just make them go away. I can spend the complete round with a pike, turning my camera like a paranoid (= situational awareness good) but no rider will come to empale his horse on my pike.

Or increase horse HP but implement a penalty to speed and maneuver as they get wounded. Some mods have implemented this and it is quite consistent.

nice idea hope its doable, and would be also so fun to see crippled infantry that can barely walk when he has something like 10%, would make archery much more viable as they would hurt horses/infantry alike making them less effective

btw Lorenzo who is Tolben hahahaha

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

I'v noticed a tendancy of the range class to ignore me and my horse since the new patch...dunno why...

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Torben *

[v/onMega]

From my point of view, wearing a headset, sitting in front of a 32":

It aint a problem of cav as a class or pikes being unsheatable.

Its a simple and coomon fact that around 60 % of the crpg playerbase is either deaf, blind, both, unexpierienced or sometimes lazy.

Did anybody once spectate players like Torben?
Getting easy kills and good k/d aint hard not because cav is easymode, its bcoz there is sooo sooo many ridiculusly easy kills to farm.

These cav. Guys know their pet, got really good map overview and simply
backstab unaware masses.

What the hell is wrong with that?
Nothing.

Why is that?
Poeple make it easy for the cav simply by being deaf, dumb, blind etc.

Ppl. sound like cav also has an easy time against a group of halfway aware opponents...nope they dont.

I know since i enjoy killing cav the most. Cav. is commited, making a mistake is followed by death.

I dont see any problem here, but thats just my aware point of view.

When you want to break it down on the playerbase, horses could have 1/2 the speed and would still rape.... with pikes, without pikes, bcoz nobody can change /heirloom modify ppls awareness...

[OoberNoob]

(click to show/hide)

From my point of view, wearing a headset, sitting in front of a 32":

It aint a problem of cav as a class or pikes being unsheatable.

Its a simple and coomon fact that around 60 % of the crpg playerbase is either deaf, blind, both, unexpierienced or sometimes lazy.

Did anybody once spectate players like Torben?
Getting easy kills and good k/d aint hard not because cav is easymode, its bcoz there is sooo sooo many ridiculusly easy kills to farm.

These cav. Guys know their pet, got really good map overview and simply
backstab unaware masses.

What the hell is wrong with that?
Nothing.

Why is that?
Poeple make it easy for the cav simply by being deaf, dumb, blind etc.

Ppl. sound like cav also has an easy time against a group of halfway aware opponents...nope they dont.

I know since i enjoy killing cav the most. Cav. is commited, making a mistake is followed by death.

I dont see any problem here, but thats just my aware point of view.

When you want to break it down on the playerbase, horses could have 1/2 the speed and would still rape.... with pikes, without pikes, bcoz nobody can change /nerf ppls awareness...

+1

[22nd_King_Plazek]

You forgot stupid ;)

[v/onMega]

You forgot stupid ;)

True.

[Chestaclese]

From my point of view, wearing a headset, sitting in front of a 32":

It aint a problem of cav as a class or pikes being unsheatable.

Its a simple and coomon fact that around 60 % of the crpg playerbase is either deaf, blind, both, unexpierienced or sometimes lazy.

Did anybody once spectate players like Torben?
Getting easy kills and good k/d aint hard not because cav is easymode, its bcoz there is sooo sooo many ridiculusly easy kills to farm.

These cav. Guys know their pet, got really good map overview and simply
backstab unaware masses.

What the hell is wrong with that?
Nothing.

Why is that?
Poeple make it easy for the cav simply by being deaf, dumb, blind etc.

Ppl. sound like cav also has an easy time against a group of halfway aware opponents...nope they dont.

I know since i enjoy killing cav the most. Cav. is commited, making a mistake is followed by death.

I dont see any problem here, but thats just my aware point of view.

When you want to break it down on the playerbase, horses could have 1/2 the speed and would still rape.... with pikes, without pikes, bcoz nobody can change /heirloom modify ppls awareness...

I could live with that. Lets reduce horses speed by half.

[La Makina]

You might not see it from your horse but here, on Earth, things area bit different.

Sounds are deceiving: a horse can sound very close whereas it is actually far, and the opposite. A directional sound system is not reliable either, I hear undistinguished galops in the four speakers almost constantly (it is a native problem).

A rider can cross the map in, what, 20-30 secs. So even though you check your back clear, a cav can be onto you within a few seconds without being noticed. You just cannot keep watching all the time and if spotted, the rider just moves on to the next target. With 100+ people on a server, cav will always find unaware targets.

On the contrary, cav don't have to split their attention: they have nothing to watch for because, as the title says, they have no natural predators.

[Reinhardt]

Fighting someone with my 175 ping on EU3 is not my idea of proving anything.  Plus 1v1 isnt the issue we are trying to discuss, its the 20-30% of servers being cav completely dominating even if some bad cav die off quickly, a large group of decent cav will always dominate against all other classes now OR it becomes a pike (most with only 1 wpf) vs. cavalry fight and no one melees.  The patch has shifted the balance heavily in favor of cavalry as a class better than other classes.  The more imbalanced the game, the less dynamic the fight as one class increasingly dominates, becomes more popular, then even more dominant unlesss factors are done to rebalance.

And a decent group of archers will kill said cav...

Pikes are a defensive weapon against horses. You can't hunt horses with pikes with any kid of effectiveness. You only way to aggressively fight horses is with ranged and the game currently lacks a ranged class strong enough to deal with them. It will take a little while, as people level up and retire, but I expect to see a large influx of horses in the next week or two.

Repair bills are largely a problem for new players. The majority of us have hundreds of thousands of gold coins lying around and nothing to spend them on.

The only reason not to get a horse at this point would be because they may not be as usefull in strategus.

1: That's funny, because I remember the longbow getting buffed to 24 pierce. Cavalry players also have to wear light armor unless they use a sumpter, which is useless. I wear a gambeason and I almost ALWAYS get 1-shot by ANYTHING. No joke there.

2: I like that. People will stay with there normal classes because cavalry is not super easy-mode if you don't know what you're dong. People will always be bad.

Huh, I wonder why I tend to not fear horses as infantry.
...............
Oh, I use a pike and organize my team to gather around pikes with shielders/2h up front. All archers to be protected and shoot people/horses while safe behind protection.

BRB getting x5. (until random pubs just run off and suicide  . Why do they just run off to die by themselves? It never works. It never has worked.)


Also, why is it such a huge surprise that cav is viable now? A surprise that they are 20% the population of a server now? There are three main character types. Infantry, Archery, and cavalry. If it were a normal distribution, there would be 1/3rd the server as cav -- and it is leaning in that direction.

What I am saying is tactics. If you guys don't all rambo like idiots, cav are not a threat. Unless they were to make amazing coordinated trample pushes with the enemy infantry swarming in as they knock you down like sacrificial battering rams. *flashbacks of practices with cavalieres*

The metagame is changing in a really good way. I'm starting to see pike swarms and squad play without organizing them -- sometimes. But you didn't see it as often before.

I don't think this one is a balance issue. It is a state of mind and lack of teamwork issue with players not intent on change.*

*Some small cav balance tweaks may be made, but they are not something developed to be noticeable yet. It is only a week after patch and people aren't even used to the changes yet to properly defend themselves and/or adjust to a different metagame.

I like you.

Or increase horse HP but implement a penalty to speed and maneuver as they get wounded. Some mods have implemented this and it is quite consistent.

I thought maybe yes, but then I thought about how arrows will only come faster and faster. Cav can't take a decent melee weapon unless they know EXACTLY how to balance their finances. I have shite armor and shield, a lance, a fairly nice sword, and a good horse. 2her infantry can take chain-mail/plate with a masterwork 2her and dismount me (even though I have a lance) with any form of skill and footwork.

________________________________________________

Also, most maps have positions where archers and infantry can go to avoid getting lanced by cavalry from behind.

[Magikarp]

You might not see it from your horse but here, on Earth, things area bit different.

Sounds are deceiving: a horse can sound very close whereas it is actually far, and the opposite. A directional sound system is not reliable either, I hear undistinguished galops in the four speakers almost constantly (it is a native problem).

A rider can cross the map in, what, 20-30 secs. So even though you check your back clear, a cav can be onto you within a few seconds without being noticed. You just cannot keep watching all the time and if spotted, the rider just moves on to the next target. With 100+ people on a server, cav will always find unaware targets.

On the contrary, cav don't have to split their attention: they have nothing to watch for because, as the title says, they have no natural predators.

Most of us cav players play dismounted classes to, on top of that most of us go for a build that makes useful on foot too. Probably better than most of you, since the cav players I see online frequently are more skillful than the average community.
If you can't hear and see, than that is a physical problem, not an ingame one.

[Gorath]

Poeple make it easy for the cav simply by being deaf

Headset, 36" monitor.  Cav sounds are fucking retarded and nigh nonexistant most of the time.  Or rediculously loud when they're across the map and nowhere near you.  The sound in this game is crap and you know it.  I hunt cav with my spear/pike and it's easy enough to keep track of them once you SEE them, but hearing them is impossible even with a good headset because the sound is fucked.

since the cav players I see online frequently are more skillful than the average community.

lol, so much ego.  Most cav are barely better than archers and hardly more skillful than even noob infantry once they're dismounted.  You're a funny guy though.

If you can't hear and see, than that is a physical problem, not an ingame one.

Fixed.  Again the sound in this game is fucking jacked and shitty and you damn well know it.

[Magikarp]

Headset, 36" monitor.  Cav sounds are fucking retarded and nigh nonexistant most of the time.  Or rediculously loud when they're across the map and nowhere near you.  The sound in this game is crap and you know it.  I hunt cav with my spear/pike and it's easy enough to keep track of them once you SEE them, but hearing them is impossible even with a good headset because the sound is fucked.
lol, so much ego.  Most cav are barely better than archers and hardly more skillful than even noob infantry once they're dismounted.  You're a funny guy though.Fixed.  Again the sound in this game is fucking jacked and shitty and you damn well know it.

How is it shitty? Get surround sound headsets if you want to know where the sound came from. Hearing loud cavalry sounds is a warning, looking around is something perfectly doable. Why can't you what others can?

Hurr durr durr, someone thinks he has skilzz, I can beatz any cavalryman on foot! But I can't lookz aroundz meh!
Seriously, if you can't keep track of whats happening around you, how can you ever keep track of someones hits?

 

[Ujin]

Just a short observation - i'm a cav/infantry hybrid, when i go on foot i die from swords,maces,bows,xbows,throwing weapons and on the most rare occasions i die from cavalry. Just saying.