What has this got to do with upkeep?I can't agree more :) But items requiring 2-3 slots... I'm not convinced it's a good idea. It won't hurt my 2her at all, but still...
I consider upkeep the biggest success since the Apollo moon landing.
Upkeep has been the biggest fail in game design of the 21st century.
It failed in numerous ways, claiming to be the solution to all the minor problems we had prepatch but in fact upkeep solved nothing as is, and created even bigger problems. The globalized archery spam was regulated through a fine nerf of the damage and accuracy and by removing the wpf bonus of retirement. Nothing to do with the cost of an archer equipment. That was probably the biggest problem we had. In second place we had the "tincans". Also here the problem was certainly not that they wore heavy armors. The real problem was the weapon speed people could acheive thanks to multiple retirements, and the crazy agi and ath values due to grinding to level 40. Give heavy armor to a level 30 without wpf bonuses. He's perfectly fine regarding balance. His speed is fuckslow and he's ganked if his team retreats. The char would be more efficient in combat without the heavy armor, however it helps against ranged units.
What I'm trying to explain is that just like in politics, we had a problem (in my example, lightspeed tincans), and people try to hide the symptoms (upkeep to prevent people from using heavy armors). But the correct solution is to find the source of the problem (extreme agi and wpf were reachable) and correct it in a way it won't change things for non-problematic parts of the mod.
Here we have upkeep, that completly changed cRPG, in the equipment we use, our speed, survivability, the powers of different classes, in the way we fight, why we fight and why we do not fight. A rather brutal change to hide the symptoms of a very simple problem.
Now we can try to fix things a little.
The 2 slots for ranged/2h weapons has been proposed many times, it has nothing to do with upkeep, but it is logically linked with the wpf curve. As investing all your points into one proficiency is highly detrimental, much people are forced into hybridizing (just look around and you see half melee players being part-time noob throwers). To be continued, gtg
In addition someone soberly noticed that it will lead to more ranged camping roofs and running away from melee fights even more than now, all that due to the inability to carry decent melee weapon. All in all the patch will hurt hybrids, obviously, but will also cause undesired effects.
Siege equipment will take multiple slots as well. If i remember correctly all ladders at least 2 slots, large and siege ladder 3 slots, siege shied 2 slots, construction site 3 slots. So if anything, there will be a lot less roofcamping.
So if anything, there will be a lot less roofcamping.
Twas about bloody time. :wink:
Also, @Darkkarma: basically it will force you to stay near your shielding teammate if you want to survive longer, which kinda makes sense. We are fighting medieval battles here, not some "im gonna Rambo everything on my own" medieval unrealistic shooter. At least this mod should thrive to get things done "properly".
DarkKarma, i think you'll see that dedicated range will be fine. The melee hybrids of them will suffer a little bit. We'll see ho wit plays out... If they have an heirloom and character re-stat then everything will be fine and nobody will get royally screwed for heirlooming completely non compatible weapons as of the patch.
See now I don't buy that for a second. This is going to hurt alot ofdedicated hybrid players such myself. I can respect that they wanted to cut down the major issue of hybrids, (mainly with crossbows and their not so steep wpf requirements) But come on, I mean, as far as i'm concerned this is going to seriously destroy alot of hybrids and dedicated crossbowmen as well.
I'll be forced to just using a bloody one hander or extremely low end polearm, I mean, as a crossbowman, I can count on going into melee the vast majority of time. I may not be a melee force, but I can at least hold my own. I can't run around and kite guys in a Loki-esque style and , continually hit my targets while on the move. Once I miss and i'm being pursued, i'm going to HAVE to melee assuming I don't 1 hit him or have about 30 feet to work with. My melee capabilities are going to be hit VERY hard with this patch(not to mention the item I heirloomed for the soul purpose of going with my bow is now effectively useless as far as that is concerned. Simply steepening ranged wpf requirements for xbows would seem to be alot simpler. Better yet, why not make it dependant on powerdraw like bows? It would seriously cut back on the amount of hybrid users as well as not screw over the dedicated crossbowmen out there.
A similar skill steepening could be done for throwing so that it's not as practical. I mean, I get it, right now it's not a mater of "should I hybrid" rather than "why shouldn't I hybrid?" But come on, we're not all lance tankmen fighters that can balance out two melee weapons and still have 60 wpf in crossbow and be effective.
All in all, this seems like an extremely short sighted fix.
think 1st, write 2nd - the new patch will be awesome
Also do you really want all the people who have heirloomed OP weapons like Barmaces / side swords to get to choose the next Uber cool weapon after the patch. No, if you like your weapon stick with it. Fuckers.Speed bump mentality is not how you do anything, let alone something with the purpose of being fun.
The truth is, being a hybrid its a trade-off; you have to split points.That's the opposite of the truth, I'm afraid. The rapidly escalating cost of high wpf is the reason why everyone has gone hybrid: all you are trading is an insignificant difference between 150 and 160 wpf to go from 1 to 75.
think 1st, write 2nd - the new patch will be awesome
Beau, it is your point of view. I TOTALLY DISAGREE.
every hybrid will have to choose what he prefers (not like now when you can take the best of both - aka sniper + 2h weapon, cav with heavy lance+shield+lhb or 2h, archer+superbow+superpolearm)
the last post was not meant specially on you but overall on most of the people :)
its like always imo, everybody complains before the patch only to find out that the changes are awesome after the patch is released. there will be way more variety in hybrids. every hybrid will have to choose what he prefers (not like now when you can take the best of both - aka sniper + 2h weapon, cav with heavy lance+shield+lhb or 2h, archer+superbow+superpolearm, skirmishers with jarids+huscarls+1h etc...)
That doesn't sound like much of a hybrid to me, man. It sounds like a person with a last resort alternative. Unless we're talking about some of the best here, a one hander alone isn't going to stand much of a chance against a rhade, harmless, or a goretooth.
I think the point is Archers etc are not supposed to stand an equal chance against pure 2h or pure polearms :P if they did everyone would roll archer.
That doesn't sound like much of a hybrid to me, man. It sounds like a person with a last resort alternative. Unless we're talking about some of the best here, a one hander alone isn't going to stand much of a chance against a rhade, harmless, or a goretooth. Also, regular hybrid archers with their 50 max wpf would probably disagree with that "best of both worlds" analogy. They're going to be even a bit worse off when it comes to being able to defend against melee fighters. Again, I don't see why we couldn't achieve the same results with steepening wpf requirements or making certain weapons need an additional requirement.
It's still of course way too early to tell, and I may be proven wrong, but Hybrid builds in alot of cases are being changed from "Why not" to "Why bother?" It's going from one extreme to another.
I agree whole-heartedly , but a 50 wpf archer against a 130-140 wpf melee build in a melee fight doesn't exactly sound even to me as it is. Why make it that much harder for them?
You will be able to get high/top tier melee weapon while having mid tier ranged weapon, or the other way around.
I think you still don't unerstand the mentality of hybrids. It's not supposed to be a "awesome at range, awesome in melee". You will be able to get high/top tier melee weapon while having mid tier ranged weapon, or the other way around.
Also, the wpf argument - I suppose you know very well that it doesn't mean shit. You are perfectly capable of melee with 1 wpf. There is simply not big enough difference between 1 and 150 to say that 1 wpf is useless. That's simply not true.
The scales favors them, due to their ability to spit arrows on their foes. Making them unable to use the best melee weapons would even the scales.
Not true. If I choose top tier xbow, I will not be able to use even practice dagger with arena shield. I am sentenced to a twohander or a polearm (weak one). In other words, hybrids like <weak 1h+ weak shield+top tier xbow> is impossible. And that does not seem to be fair.
Not true. If I choose top tier xbow, I will not be able to use even practice dagger with arena shield. I am sentenced to a twohander or a polearm (weak one). In other words, hybrids like <weak 1h+ weak shield+top tier xbow> will be impossible. And that does not seem to be fair.
To be clear - I can agree that one shouldn't be able to use top tier everything (here again - upkeep was supposed to sort it out; it did not)
There will be a few 1 slot 2h weapons and polearms. The spiked mace is an example for that, the spear and shortened spear are for polearms. I hope to expand the 1 slot selection sometime but for that we need models. In my opinion non-hammer 2h handed weapons with a reach of 70-90 are perfect for the 1 slot thingy and polearms with about 100-130 reach.
I've never once stated that we should get the best of both worlds but let's be realistic here, a mid tier weapon such as a"standard crossbow or bow is going to take multiple shots to kill an enemy, don't even get me started on strength builds.
Are you trying to tell me that good player with 50 wpf has as good a chance of beating another player with 150 wpf in an a melee fight? Not even including the average difference in power strike, ironflesh and so on? While certainly not completely unbalanced, it definitely isn't a very tough guess to find out whos going to win most often in a melee confrontation like that. Now, with crossbow hybrids, I agree, It literally is a best of both worlds kind of thing atm, and that's why i've been one of the biggest proponent(too my limited knowledge) of getting them put more in a place like bows. This certainly wasn't what I thought would come about, though. This more than anything seems like a sort of blanket fix for pocket pikes, over stacked throwing items, boken hybrids builds, and so on.
Fact is you'll have to chose between a normal xbow+sword&board and an OP xbow (sniper)+1h. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Where did I say that? I said you are capable of melee with 1 wpf. Obviously, if you take two equally skilled players, one with 50 the other with 150 wpf, the higher wpf will have the edge. But since not even with 1 wpf you can be outspammed unless you fail at footwork and timing or choose a super duper slow weapon, there is really no need for hybrids to go over 80/90 wpf in melee (the cookie cutter 15/24 xbow hybrid build will let you do just that easily) to be almost as effective as dedicated melee, while heaving great accuracy with xbow.
Fact is you'll have to chose between a normal xbow+sword&board and an OP xbow (sniper)+1h. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Theres a 3 second reload time, even at masterworked level and 130 WPF, even then you have maybe a 50 percent chance of getting a 1 hit kill even with sharp bolts. Even then, with it's fire speed, getting head shots is pretty damned difficult.
Come on man...
That's why you have melee to support you and give you enough time to reload lots of times. Or position yourself on the roof. You can easily avoid melee until you're the last man standing. And even then you are able to use that 1h.
Also for the MW sniper kill chance of 50% - nonsense. Learn to pick your targets and you'll get enough kills before you get melee'd.
That's why you have melee to support you and give you enough time to reload lots of times. Or position yourself on the roof. You can easily avoid melee until you're the last man standing. And even then you are able to use that 1h. Also for the MW sniper kill chance of 50% - nonsense. Learn to pick your targets and you'll get enough kills before you get melee'd. MW sniper has buttloads of damage and it should kill pretty much anyone not in plate, with a body shot.
1. Ladders will take 2 or 3 slots + many new maps are created in a way that roofs have barriers. It is difficult to avoid melee even now.
2. 50% chance of kill is not a nonsense. It is a fact. At the beginning of the round I cannot kill naked guy pumped with IF; at the end of the round it gets better.
Oh as long as we are talking teamwork, then I think that the german great sword is a very OP weapon! I mean, it stabs really far and if you have a group of melee or ranged supporting you, you can do really well with it!
Dude, most weapons work really well with team work. The thing is, you're team isn't there to bail you out plenty of times. Even then, if you're the last man standing, you may get off two shots before the enemy is on you. You'll be lucky if you ever load another bolt in the chamber that round; especially if you're using a simple 1 hander. As far as the bow killing most people in one hit out of plate, that's absolute tripe and you know it. I've been working with bows for months now and unless i'm shooting peasants, 1 hit shots don't happen very often. It also happens even less with the nonmasterworked weapons (yeah, I actually aim for high priority targets, rather than peasants, I suggest you try it rather than presumably shoot low levels and make hasty generalizations as a result.) Anyway, my point behind that is that the Sniper bows certainly aren't OP per say. They do suffer from a problem all xbows suffer from, too little wpf required to have decent accuracy with them.
I was talking about MW sniper xbow (or even the normal one), not bows one shotting.
1. No it is not difficult to avoid melee. Stand behind shield wall and move away when the melee clash. Or move with other archers and just kite melee.
Xbow is useless on the distance where bow can still make damage. For that reason siege shields are often placed too far. PLUS they will take 2 slots....
2. 50% chance to kill is nonsense, once you learn to pick the right targets. Shooting powerhouse tanks with pumped up IF with your xbow is just stupid, unless shooting them is really needed.
It's the very best and most expensive bow in the game, even then, you need masterworked bolts, and the bow at masterwork to even come to the way it used to be before. Even then, it's still very slow. It is strong and certainly does well against archers if you snipe them froma distance, but it's not OP in my opinion.
It's the very best and most expensive bow in the game, even then, you need masterworked bolts, and the bow at masterwork to even come to the way it used to be before. Even then, it's still very slow. It is strong and certainly does well against archers if you snipe them froma distance, but it's not OP in my opinion.
It also does well against horses and 2H/Poles without a shield and plate armor.
So the only thing left that could cause you problems are shielders. That's one thing. And thats why I find it OP. IMO
think 1st, write 2nd - the new patch will be awesomeClose the topic now please.
For me this is a very bad idea. As I like to loadout realisticly so Pike, Side sword, dagger etc. Things like that. :|
Honestly this patch is a great idea, wanting to take the best range in the game should force you to use something other than the best melee in the game also.:)
Hybrids should be a trade off, and dedicated range should have an advantage just like dedicated anything.
Also pure spec 2h users shouldn't be able to bring their whole load out into battle and switch between Long Sword, Flamberg, Pike, and Great Maul, its just rediculous.
Same thing with range users busting out huge weapons from their back pockets.
Sorry now you have to pick what you want to be good at instead of being good at everything.
I suggest xbow, but just a light one.... or a bow, but just nomad... nah, you will have to do with 1h and BE FAST!!! Or, if you have doubts, learn to play :twisted:
You suggest me a light xbow ? That would lead to more ranged shit in the air ...
That is what the patch is for ?
No serious .... what weapon should 1h/shielder use to defend from cav ? Don´t say my 90 ranged weapon ;-) I think heavy lance is longer ;-) I can´t take a pike any longer if this thing will take 3 slots.
Will admin realize that the average archer will be forced to delay rounds with this new patch if they are the last man standing?
I am predicting a lot of poll bans and kicks once this patch hits...
Well if they do their job 100% properly and remove the ladders from battle servers then this actually wont happen so often. Archers simply wont delay rounds cause they will be dead (just as they deserve), raped by cavalry, shielders, etc. :wink:
If an archer does his/her job 100% properly then they will always be the last alive on a team, especially if a melee weapon is no longer an option.
And what did make you think that it won't be an option? I thought the new patch is actually made for/by pure melee guys....
Summary: hard to balance weapons, adding features rather than balance by tweaking adds new depth, mechanically and superficially, and could work just as well.[lili]
This idea sounds workable but there are a few issues that need to be sorted out before it fairly and effectively balances hybrids..[/li]
I just want to know what's happening with heirlooms. I'm currently gen 2 with 1 loom and about 1 mil untill next retirement. If heirloom theft happens I might as well wait to retire to get the most looms (2) instead of getting 1 stolen. If its just gonna give them back I would retire now.
I believe the devs should let us know how this is gonna go down. A little transparency never hurts.
Upkeep has been the biggest fail in game design of the 21st century.
The craziest thing is, that my melee-only char is forced to use ranged too , by the patch.
Why ?
When pikes use 3 slots, i can´t use a pike with my 1h/shielder anymore.
So what do i use , to defend me against cav ?
A medium/light XBOW , which uses 1slot + steel bolts.
I liked to put all points in 1h , but with such a patch i´m forced to put some points in xbow too.
So for me it sounds like the patch will lead to more hybrid class chars , with more ranged.
And i think there is flying enough shit through the air .... pls , let a pike take maximum 2 slots, so that 1h/shielder can use a pike after the patch. Otherwise there will be more hybrids , and more ranged.
The craziest thing is, that my melee-only char is forced to use ranged too , by the patch.Pls rethink your arguments ;) How the hell this patch in any way could increase the number of hybrids.
Why ?
When pikes use 3 slots, i can´t use a pike with my 1h/shielder anymore.
So what do i use , to defend me against cav ?
A medium/light XBOW , which uses 1slot + steel bolts.
I liked to put all points in 1h , but with such a patch i´m forced to put some points in xbow too.
So for me it sounds like the patch will lead to more hybrid class chars , with more ranged.
And i think there is flying enough shit through the air .... pls , let a pike take maximum 2 slots, so that 1h/shielder can use a pike after the patch. Otherwise there will be more hybrids , and more ranged.
How the hell this patch in any way could increase the number of hybrids.
It´s more or less the total opposite of what you said.
I think you are dead if you try a warspear.
Heavy lance is just longer and hits first. So you are dead.
Correct me , if i´m wrong. Thought the only weapon long enough to hit first before heavy lance is pike. But maybe i try a bamboo spear again. But that one failed too often while i tried it.
So that the heavy lance just hits first , and because you are dead , you can´t hit the horse anymore ...
And if you use shield and spear , you must decide if you want to be protected behind your shield=block ( 2 hits and a medium shield is crushed because of the speed bonus of the cav ) , or you want to try to stop the horse = dead , cause heavy lance is longer = hits first. Maybe i try a bamboo spear again. I tried it and it sucks too often .... so i changed to pike again. I know that i have no protection against ranged, while i use pike, but i think it´s a better option against cav than be protected with shield , and use bamboo spear ...
Maybe i must try again various combinations.
Edit :
And @ Camaris : Simply cause i can´t use a pike after the patch, with 1h/shield ( when pike needs 3 slots ) , so i must choose something other than pike , that hits first before heavy lance hits me = ranged = no more melee only = hybrid ;-)
Edit : Maybe i try something with throwing too , after the patch, cause i think jarids or throwing spears , or axes could kill a horsie too. But it´s totally clear that the patch will change my melee-only char to a hybrid char.
The craziest thing is, that my melee-only char is forced to use ranged too , by the patch.Or you can take a spear for some hoplite action instead which is already decent enough to stop cav(scare it off) if you know what you're doing. I know i'm repeating what others told you, but you're repeating yourself too.
Why ?
When pikes use 3 slots, i can´t use a pike with my 1h/shielder anymore.
So what do i use , to defend me against cav ?
A medium/light XBOW , which uses 1slot + steel bolts.
I liked to put all points in 1h , but with such a patch i´m forced to put some points in xbow too.
So for me it sounds like the patch will lead to more hybrid class chars , with more ranged.
And i think there is flying enough shit through the air .... pls , let a pike take maximum 2 slots, so that 1h/shielder can use a pike after the patch. Otherwise there will be more hybrids , and more ranged.
The problem is only with the horses with super maneuver stat that pull 9G turns. I guess the rider is well strapped in and wears a G-suit.You have a shield for crying out loud, you can just block (lancers) cav and let pikemen/ranged do their job. Why does everyone want to have in his pocket a wepaon to beat any other class in the game ?
With most other horses you can move directly infront of them where they cannot lance you and rear them with the spear. Quite risky against a good rider, true.
You have a shield for crying out loud, you can just block (lancers) cav and let pikemen/ranged do their job. Why does everyone want to have in his pocket a wepaon to beat any other class in the game ?
You have a shield for crying out loud, you can just block (lancers) cav and let pikemen/ranged do their job. Why does everyone want to have in his pocket a wepaon to beat any other class in the game ?
You have a shield for crying out loud, you can just block (lancers) cav and let pikemen/ranged do their job. Why does everyone want to have in his pocket a wepaon to beat any other class in the game ?
Again teamwork can help too, stay close to a pikeman when you are on open space.
Ofc, good cav players will beat you, but good 2h player or good 1h player will beat you too...
Pike is probably gonna take 2 slots, not 3. Stop being idiotic and argue about things you have no clue of.
Protip to fighting a cav lancer: downblock. Lots of it. Until the lancer gets bored and goes for another target.
Then he can just ride over you and stab while you're on the ground.
Then he can just ride over you and stab while you're on the ground.
I dont understand why u want to go so far from native style. If ppl with xbows or throwing weapons are a problem, change those weapons (like damage, or speed, or not stackable each others) but do not ruin the game of everyone coz of them.
And by the way, i play a pure melee and i have no problem with any type of player, cav or thrower or whatever i really cant understand all this whining about weapons and combat styles.
You've also got footwork and surprise attacks. If you do your fighting vs. cav correctly, he can't kill you.
You've also got footwork and surprise attacks. If you do your fighting vs. cav correctly, he can't kill you.
If he succeeds at knocking you over he'll need to stop his horse almost completely to lance you and this is also an opportunity to chop his precious horse up.
Of course, but you can't do that if you're constantly downblocking. Also, what you said holds true for him too (unless you're ranged).You're talking about cav players equal in their specialty to the best 2handers out there, stop scaring people so much. A shielder that knows what he is doing is a tough nut to crack for any cav player.
A good cavalry player will time his thrust so that it hits you exactly the moment you fall down. There's nothing you can do about that.
Of course, but you can't do that if you're constantly downblocking. Also, what you said holds true for him too (unless you're ranged).
A good cavalry player will time his thrust so that it hits you exactly the moment you fall down. There's nothing you can do about that.
can someone direct me to the topic where all the info about upcoming patch is ? so i know what to whine about ?;]
or is all this info from IRC?
Ill still be around with my pike, stabbong cav n players alike.I love my bill. It works well in all uses, can't one shot many people but hey the reach it has makes you think about it and I believe it has a good sized hitbox on the thrust. But, make sure you heirloom it or else it will annoy you with how slow it feels.
Post patch i'll look at looming a bill for more diversity but im happy for now.
Cav isnt paticulaly powerful when its so vulnerable to people who are aware. If your not looking expect to die.
People wanted pure builds to have an advantage.
You're talking about cav players equal in their specialty to the best 2handers out there, stop scaring people so much. A shielder that knows what he is doing is a tough nut to crack for any cav player.
Getting back on topic (Take this Cav talk to a new thread. Everyone knows that people who ride horses like a certain gender, and it isn't female :P), I think that making large weapons, and high tier weapons/shields, take up multiple slots will be AWESOME, and Here's why:
THIS IS A TEAM GAME. I believe that this will encourage, if not FORCE team play. It may suck that it will diminish Hybrids, but hey, If you want to use the War/Long Bow, you are an ARCHER. You shoot arrows. You don't swing swords. If you want to use the Sniper/heavy Xbow, You are a CROSSBOWMAN. You shoot Bolts. If you swing a sword, it's a small, dinky, 1 h PoS. If you carry a Pike, You are there to DESTROY HORSES, poke enemies in support of friendlies, etc..etc.. If you are a Shielder (assuming you're carrying the ones that are going to take 2 slots), then you are there to cover yourself AND your team. Make sure those dedicated Ranged people don't Die. Cover those pikemen's back while they cover your ass from Cav. If you have a retardedly large Polearm or two handed sword, I'm assuming that your role is PURE KILLING POWER. Whatever you are, one assumes that you've trained in that particular style of combat, and that's what you're good at. People SHOULDN'T be masters of the entire field.
I honestly can't wait to see Shielders covering a group of ranged people, who are all intermingled with pikemen. Good team work already dominates this game, but I think it'll be even MORE EPIC if it becomes an integral part of winning.
apologies if this seems like a bunch of unrelated crap mashed together, but I'm at work and I keep losing my train of thought.. but... YEAH!
-Zylo
See, now maybe i'm mistaken, but I was always under the assumption that CRPG was meant to more so give the single player feel in a multiplayer format. I of course can't say for certain, but i'm pretty sure the vast majority of us in single player dabbled in both range and melee. If this was not the purpose of CRPG's system, then why not add in class systems like native(with more options in armor and weapon selection) and get it over with? I actually would welcome that idea, as i've always preferred dedicated builds anyway. Also, while having only 1 handers will greatly diminish the melee capabilities of many, there are still some ridiculously OP one handed weapons that will still destroy many 2 handers(The Iberian mace, contrary to what I believed earlier, really CAN kill incredibly well without ANY WPF, if you have around 5 power strike, which is VERY easy to manage, along with 5 iron flesh as a hybrid crossbower. This can also be said of many different weapons. Also, crossbowers will still be able to fit in around 120 wpf in melee in addition to 130 WPF in xbows. A decent hybrid crossbower that can block can potentially be just as bad as they are now with the right weapons (as hannibal pointed out earlier) The only hybrid class that is really getting screwed is the ARCHER hybrid class, which to be perfectly honest, is the one that needed it the least out of all three ranged styles. Also, see what Harn said about looming regular single slot bows. It's too early to say, but I hope they are really thinking about how to make this patch work.
THIS IS A TEAM GAME
Hehe, you are really funny. It's game with autobalance. First round you play in one team, second in other, third you play in first again. You have 6 minutes on Longest map. Do you really think you can make teamwork ih this case? Its mob fights. All possible tactics is - ALL RIGHT and ALL LEFT. Even SHIELD WALL can make disorder.
Strategus was team game instead.
Most clans would disagree with you
but those of us that run with a dozen or two members at a time
And when you have 5-7 clans in game?Then they usually pick different parts of the field, and regardless loners can usually tag along and fill the "niches," and even still within the clan you can still perform complementary teamwork.
Hehe, please, do not disclose your top-secret clan tactics. Because team-running is too OP to be used on public servers.Too OP? Darn, we still do it anyways, sorry (But not really sorry). OP has nothing to do with the arguement at hand that there is or is not teamwork in the battles.
Hehe, you are really funny. It's game with autobalance. First round you play in one team, second in other, third you play in first again. You have 6 minutes on Longest map. Do you really think you can make teamwork ih this case? Its mob fights. All possible tactics is - ALL RIGHT and ALL LEFT. Even SHIELD WALL can make disorder.
Strategus was team game instead.
See now I don't buy that for a second. This is going to hurt alot ofdedicated hybrid players such myself. I can respect that they wanted to cut down the major issue of hybrids, (mainly with crossbows and their not so steep wpf requirements) But come on, I mean, as far as i'm concerned this is going to seriously destroy alot of hybrids and dedicated crossbowmen as well.
I'll be forced to just using a bloody one hander or extremely low end polearm, I mean, as a crossbowman, I can count on going into melee the vast majority of time. I may not be a melee force, but I can at least hold my own. I can't run around and kite guys in a Loki-esque style and , continually hit my targets while on the move. Once I miss and i'm being pursued, i'm going to HAVE to melee assuming I don't 1 hit him or have about 30 feet to work with. My melee capabilities are going to be hit VERY hard with this patch(not to mention the item I heirloomed for the soul purpose of going with my bow is now effectively useless as far as that is concerned. Simply steepening ranged wpf requirements for xbows would seem to be alot simpler. Better yet, why not make it dependant on powerdraw like bows? It would seriously cut back on the amount of hybrid users as well as not screw over the dedicated crossbowmen out there.
A similar skill steepening could be done for throwing so that it's not as practical. I mean, I get it, right now it's not a mater of "should I hybrid" rather than "why shouldn't I hybrid?" But come on, we're not all lance tankmen fighters that can balance out two melee weapons and still have 60 wpf in crossbow and be effective.
All in all, this seems like an extremely short sighted fix.
If you are a Shielder (assuming you're carrying the ones that are going to take 2 slots),Seriously, shields are going to take two slots? Why not just reduce everyone to three instead of four slots then? If shields take up two slots that ends up nerfing everyone in the game: 2h/polearm users need an extra slot, archers and crossbows an extra slot and now if you want to use a shield you need an extra slot too! I've just retired and started putting points into one handed and polearm, intending to fight mainly sword and shield but switching to a polearm if my shield gets broken. If polearms and shields need two slots, that's going to be impossible... the only option for a backup weapon now is going to be throwing, or else we're going to see a ridiculous level of turtling up with 2 or 3 shields.
chadz is clearly trolling.
This patch will never come out. Ever.
Seriously, shields are going to take two slots? Why not just reduce everyone to three instead of four slots then? If shields take up two slots that ends up nerfing everyone in the game: 2h/polearm users need an extra slot, archers and crossbows an extra slot and now if you want to use a shield you need an extra slot too! I've just retired and started putting points into one handed and polearm, intending to fight mainly sword and shield but switching to a polearm if my shield gets broken. If polearms and shields need two slots, that's going to be impossible... the only option for a backup weapon now is going to be throwing, or else we're going to see a ridiculous level of turtling up with 2 or 3 shields.
chadz is clearly trolling.This +1
This patch will never come out. Ever.
We are all taking hits. If you seriously want to see a guy like cyranule, man of war, or even worse, some lamer like ishtar neo with a multitude of weapons in addition to his lame pick and uber shield? At least in this sense, the patch is a good idea. No more pocket polearms and pikes. I personally like the idea of shielders being limited in their options. They are already good enough, ffs.This limits shielders to "nothing" unless you want to take throwing axes. When I've fought on foot, I've always had an axe on my back for if my shield broke; I never realised before how OP and abusive I was being. Again, why not just give everyone three slots instead of four?
This limits shielders to "nothing" unless you want to take throwing axes. When I've fought on foot, I've always had an axe on my back for if my shield broke; I never realised before how OP and abusive I was being. Again, why not just give everyone three slots instead of four?
I hope there's a reset and new choice of heirlooms with this patch, because it is going to have a dramatic effect on some people's characters.
I hope there's a reset and new choice of heirlooms with this patch, because it is going to have a dramatic effect on some people's characters.
...and what would a dedicated archer know about teamwork ? Back in Strategos you were able to solve most of the battles on your own, i bet you never even remembered the names of the people who fought alongside you, they were here only to die while you sharpshoot your enemies from a safe spot 2 miles away from combat, mostly headshots.......i sure hope the developers dont have any intensions to bring that kind of "teamwork" back to us..........
Oh and protip: watch my squad when there is at least 5 or 6 of us online......it will help you to understand the meaning of teamwork, whether we camp or charge, and we do both.
Too bad this mod still allows your kind of dedicated archer Rambos to be rather successful, but even such scumbags cant do much against proper teamwork.
You're so bitter, Gnjus :o
+1I mean a character reset as we had before, not a database wipe...
aside of that i see no reason why there shouldn't be a reset (except for pissing majority of players off and a few stacked looms of noob barmace - still not valid reason why the others should suffer too)
i wonder if the 2 slots will deal with the pike in the pocket people ^^
This limits shielders to "nothing" unless you want to take throwing axes. When I've fought on foot, I've always had an axe on my back for if my shield broke; I never realised before how OP and abusive I was being. Again, why not just give everyone three slots instead of four?
Pikes are gonna be drop only, meaning that if you have pike in your hands, whenever you switch to other weapon or try to sheath the pike, you will drop it on the ground.eh?
For slower people - no more pocket pikes. ^^
...and what would a dedicated archer know about teamwork ? Back in Strategos you were able to solve most of the battles on your own, i bet you never even remembered the names of the people who fought alongside you, they were here only to die while you sharpshoot your enemies from a safe spot 2 miles away from combat, mostly headshots.......i sure hope the developers dont have any intensions to bring that kind of "teamwork" back to us..........
Oh and protip: watch my squad when there is at least 5 or 6 of us online......it will help you to understand the meaning of teamwork, whether we camp or charge, and we do both.
Too bad this mod still allows your kind of dedicated archer Rambos to be rather successful, but even such scumbags cant do much against proper teamwork.
Pikes are gonna be drop only, meaning that if you have pike in your hands, whenever you switch to other weapon or try to sheath the pike, you will drop it on the ground.Hah! Didn't I say I'd retire and give up cavalry only for cavalry to get a buff? Here it is! It won't be that much of a buff, though, because too many people now have got good a timing a swing to take out a horse with a sword or axe.
For slower people - no more pocket pikes. ^^
There is one thing that scares me in this slot system.Most of people while playing ranged will not use melee weapon=more running away,more gay jumping.
Twas about bloody time. :wink:
Also, @Darkkarma: basically it will force you to stay near your shielding teammate if you want to survive longer, which kinda makes sense. We are fighting medieval battles here, not some "im gonna Rambo everything on my own" medieval unrealistic shooter. At least this mod should thrive to get things done "properly".
Your "point" to Darkkarma fails utterly since it relies on some implied sense of historical realism. Also successful trained x-bowmen in said historical reality were equipped with melee weapons they were well trained in the use of, and had deployable pavise shields to use for cover.
Pikes are gonna be drop only, meaning that if you have pike in your hands, whenever you switch to other weapon or try to sheath the pike, you will drop it on the ground.
For slower people - no more pocket pikes. ^^
What's the point of doing that ? people will just use bambo or switch to two hand.
That will nerf polearm and give yet another advantage to great sword that are already the best for duel, extremely good in big group fight thank to the trust and 2nd best against cav next to pike.
It will be fair if you change lolstab to halfsword mode like for the flamberge but then cav will be extremely OP.
Is this really an issue? People having too many weapons on them. The flexibility that c-rpg gives you is what makes the game more interesting than native. Who really gives a flying fuck whether someone has a shield, sword, polearm, and throwing axes? That's actually pretty historically accurate anyway. Doesn't seem over powered to me, you move slower and it's not like you can use them all at the same time. Why don't you knobs spend your precious time making strategus work again instead of fixing things that were never broken?
As a cav I support drop-on-sheath-pike :mrgreen:before you gloat remember that the lance will also take 3 slots and will be dropped...
before you gloat remember that the lance will also take 3 slots and will be dropped...
No more poelarm cavs with a lance on horse and a long hafted something in the pocket. Unless there is some short 1-slot polearm, it means that you'll spend some wpf in 1H to have a sidearm, or that you primary mounted polearm will be a spear.
before you gloat remember that the lance will also take 3 slots and will be dropped...
No more poelarm cavs with a lance on horse and a long hafted something in the pocket. Unless there is some short 1-slot polearm, it means that you'll spend some wpf in 1H to have a sidearm, or that you primary mounted polearm will be a spear.
I wouldn't be so sure lance is gonna be 3 slot. AFAIK, the common motion on IRC was to give no-sheath weapons 2 slots. The drop thing is big enough nerf imo.
If that's the case, you have 2 slots heavy lance, 1 slot knightly heater shield, 1 slot LHB (visible on back ater sheathing) as a cav.
Wouldn't change a whole lot I think.
Only if the "no sheath" is the same as "not visible when sheathed" which I read somewhere.
If that's the case, you have 2 slots heavy lance, 1 slot knightly heater shield, 1 slot LHB (visible on back ater sheathing) as a cav.
Wouldn't change a whole lot I think.
Only if the "no sheath" is the same as "not visible when sheathed" which I read somewhere.
youre still an american
Pretty much invalidates everything you post since your "go to" is the bigot well.
I guess cav will go with the following:
Heavy Lance
Cav shield
One-hander
or
Heavy Lance
Polearm for when dismounted
lol is "an american" like the new N-word over the atlantic these days?
yall r bunch of `mericans!
there :P
Pretty much invalidates everything you post since your "go to" is the bigot well.
Lol Gorath....i can just LOL !
Where is your legendary "self-defense" ? Counter arguments ? You used to be "provoked" and "attacked" much harder then this but you always managed to get yourself out of it, without a scratch.....youre getting old man....or you just had a little bit too much of this cRPG cocktail.....or am i just ....kinda.....RIGHT ????? :wink:
Btw i was always on your "side", yes you type too much but we cant deny that youre sometimes right with your essays......so this lack-of-arguments-attack-but-still-an-attack on me is just....wtf ??? :shock:
Have a nice day. 8-)
He did expose a logic fallacy,
Thx for teaching us historical lesson that most of us already know very well but do we have deployable pavise shields in this mod ? I dont think so. Did i ever said anything about crossbowmen without melee weapons ? I dont think so. Which leaves me kind of wondering what your "point" with this post was/is...... :wink:
"Implied sense of historical realism" ??? Yes, i DO think this mod (the ones who develop it) should aim to achieve balance by realism, as much as the game engine allows. And yes, it should aim towards teamwork battles, rather then solo Ramboish rampages. You seem like a clever guy who might have an idea what medieval battles looked like but meh, youre still an american, you guys just have too much examples of fantasy one-man-saves-the-whole-world heroics. You just love one man armies, heroes, demi-gods, halls of fame, best ofs, etc. :)
hell yea! James Bond: Great American Hero!
You guys make jokes, but you can thank Bruce Willis for having saved the world so many times!
Where is your legendary "self-defense" ? Counter arguments ?
This is a conspiracy to nerf me :evil:. Now i can't bump slash with LHB and have Heavy Lance on horse at the same time!
Really? These 2 weapon going to take 2 slot each no?
Not only should LHB be 2 slots... lances should be non carried item, so if you try to choose your LHB the lance is dropped to the ground. Oh sweet dreams, let it be.same with pike n you have a deal :D
same with pike n you have a deal :D
Heavy lance, is gonna, be, dropped on teh ground, when you switch weapons ?You are stupid. Want me to explain why ?
YEPEEEE
Suck my knightly arming sword, you poor mongol lancer bastards on overmaneuvrable mini undead-colored horses. Now real men can play again. :twisted:
Anyone knows if some 1h weapons will be 2 slots too?Especially the ones with 2h secondary mode.
You are stupid. Want me to explain why ?
Sidesword will require 3 slots.
I'm pretty sure all polearms (with very few exceptions) will be 2 slots at least, no matter if they are visible or not when sheathed.
Sidesword will require 3 slots.
No, 5.Wonderful! so the hidden food slot is being used as well!
Sidesword will require 3 slots.
No, 5.
About lances breaking, does that add only to realism or is there a gameplay perk/balance reason to that?
Its more of a realism thing I guess, then cav will have to switch to sword after using the lance
If something is unreal it is unbalanced.
Well just couch if you dare losing your lance it adds both realism and balance imo.Lol just lol. Epic troll.
If something is unreal it is unbalanced.
A guy with a pike loses it when he sheaths it, a guy with a lance on a horse never will drop his lance, SO, the reason for a breaking lance would be to compensate for the guy with the pike being more likely to drop his weapon than the horsemen
I totally agree and support the thing you cannot sheath huge weapons.
Who can fight by carrying 3 meter pike on the back ?
Epic bs.
I also think that if you couch your lance and hit an enemy,your lance should be disappeared .
After couch it rather stays on the body cuz it went thru too much on body/armour or your lance should break and become unusable again (For the same round.)
Think of a cavalary couching or watch some documantaries or movies you'll understand what i meant.
I totally agree and support the thing you cannot sheath huge weapons.Read better next time.Lances break this is for real so as pikes...because they are not titanium only wood.They break if an angled vector forces it too much.(Sorry for fail english i hope i made my point well :D)
Who can fight by carrying 3 meter pike on the back ?
Epic bs.
I also think that if you couch your lance and hit an enemy,your lance should be disappeared .
After couch it rather stays on the body cuz it went thru too much on body/armour or your lance should break and become unusable again (For the same round.)
Think of a cavalary couching or watch some documantaries or movies you'll understand what i meant.
+1 :), cavalry already can dominate the battle servers for hours on end if you get 5 or more decent cav together. With so few carrying pikes after this next patch this would help balance cav, as their 1-hit kill capability can only be used once. And yes galloping full speed on a charger and couching someone witha lance it will punch through an enemy's body (why its 1 hit kill) and would get stuck, you are not just going to just pull it out and couch someone 10 seconds later and then again and again and rack up 34-2 records (seen a lot of cav doing this recently) because the only counter is to have everyone pike up but then the enemy infantry attack you while you have a pike and you either have to try fighting witha pike against a sword and shield even if you have 1 wpf in it or switch to your primary weapons which is when any decent cav will finally charge you and couch you when you are about to melee.
Lancebreaking is probably the dumbest idea I've ever read/heard. Do you think cav is overpowered? The only time cav get those scores you're talking about is when the other team consists of individual idiots with a serious lack of braincells. If a team plays smartly, cav can't do jack shit, I.E. cav doesn't need a nerf. Also, on a side note, couching doesn't always one-hit people.It is obvious you are not cav :lol:
Also, I'm not cav.
Right...cav is fine, don't change it. Back to the thread topic:
Does this mean that HA's will become useless after they fall? Especially with the 0 PS and all...
Right...cav is fine, don't change it. Back to the thread topic:
Does this mean that HA's will become useless after they fall? Especially with the 0 PS and all...
It is obvious you are not cav :lol:
Thought you had me there, right? I'm a dedicated xbower, a class that doesn't have too good relations with cav, so fail on you. :rolleyes:
Such a thing does not exist.
what
Aren't they already useless once dismounted? With 0 PS, you might as well attack the air, since that's the only thing that will even feel your swings.So you're saying that you would rather have a low-tier weapon than a high-tier weapon with 0 PS?
And good horse archers do not let themselves become dismounted. Unless they are the last ones alive.This is why people hate HA's so much. The mentality of hit and run. A HA who never becomes dismounted is one who runs away rather than staying near combat and fighting.
So you're saying that you would rather have a low-tier weapon than a high-tier weapon with 0 PS?This is why people hate HA's so much. The mentality of hit and run. A HA who never becomes dismounted is one who runs away rather than staying near combat and fighting.
With 0 PS, you might as well attack the air, since that's the only thing that will even feel your swings.That is complete rubbish. Yes PS is good and important, but you can still kill plenty even with 0 PS. I am talking of joining the ranks and fighting, not the being dismounted, sliding 30 meters into a group of enemy, jumping on your feet and killing all of them with a few swift strikes kind of fighting.
Such a thing does not exist.LIES
So if this multiple slot equipment is for limiting the capabilities of hibrids, why don't just change the requirements from PS,PD,PT to wpf? Let's say you need 140 wpf in 2h for flamberge, this would make archer-flamberge hybrids impossible, or from the point of an archer you need 2 stacks of arrows for a battle to be really useful, so if a bow takes 2 slots then taking 2 stacks of arrows means you have no backup weapon and possibly a kick because of running away.
Such a thing does not exist.