Author Topic: 2 slot items  (Read 24208 times)

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Offline Gnjus

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2011, 06:49:33 pm »
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Will admin realize that the average archer will be forced to delay rounds with this new patch if they are the last man standing?

I am predicting a lot of poll bans and kicks once this patch hits...


Well if they do their job 100% properly and remove the ladders from battle servers then this actually wont happen so often. Archers simply wont delay rounds cause they will be dead (just as they deserve), raped by cavalry, shielders, etc.  :wink:
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2011, 07:05:02 pm »
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Well if they do their job 100% properly and remove the ladders from battle servers then this actually wont happen so often. Archers simply wont delay rounds cause they will be dead (just as they deserve), raped by cavalry, shielders, etc.  :wink:

Without powerstrike, we will have athletic jack rabbits, and even now I see several times a day an archer or crossbowman being the last alive on a team, though luckily they often close in with a melee backup to avoid draggimg things out.

If an archer does his/her job 100% properly then they will always be the last alive on a team, especially if a melee weapon is no longer an option.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 07:06:19 pm by Tears_of_Destiny »
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Offline Erasmas

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2011, 07:15:08 pm »
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If an archer does his/her job 100% properly then they will always be the last alive on a team, especially if a melee weapon is no longer an option.

And what did make you think that it won't be an option? I thought the new patch is actually made for/by pure melee guys....
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Offline UlkOgan

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2011, 08:01:43 pm »
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Looks like I'm going to play my alts more often after the patch.

What about throwers and those running german greatswords? Less acc for throwers, less speed for tincans?
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2011, 08:28:21 pm »
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And what did make you think that it won't be an option? I thought the new patch is actually made for/by pure melee guys....

My war bow will be 2 slots with the newest patch, thus I will logically use the remaining 2 slots for arrows, not waste a slot on a melee and only have one left for a quiver.
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Offline Erasmas

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2011, 08:33:31 pm »
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oh, I get it, misunderstanding....

Well, yes, 2h is not an option because of the game patch. 1h is not an option because of me and the game patch...
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Offline bosco

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2011, 08:39:20 pm »
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Well, by the time you run out of ammo, there should be enough weapons laying on the battlefield for you to pick up!  :P

Offline Keltesh

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2011, 08:42:31 pm »
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I just want to know what's happening with heirlooms.  I'm currently gen 2 with 1 loom and about 1 mil untill next retirement.  If heirloom theft happens I might as well wait to retire to get the most looms (2) instead of getting 1 stolen.  If its just gonna give them back I would retire now.

I believe the devs should let us know how this is gonna go down.  A little transparency never hurts.

Offline LordRichrich

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2011, 08:53:50 pm »
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... Depending on what weapons take up what slots, this will amke is oh so brilliant or really really shit for many classes
If pikes take up two slots this is gonna lead to another goddam cav nerf, because archers don't hit my horse for half its health already -.-

Offline Hannibal

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2011, 09:10:56 pm »
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Summary: hard to balance weapons, adding features rather than balance by tweaking adds new depth, mechanically and superficially, and could work just as well.

This idea sounds workable but there are a few issues that need to be sorted out before it fairly and effectively balances hybrids.
  • Where will the cutoffs for 1/2 slots be implemented in polearms and 2hander weapon categories? If too many weapons are changed to 2 slots, the hybrid fix will affect the versatility of pure and multi-melee hybrids, yet if a single standout weapon is viable as 1slot (spiked mace, I'm looking at you) the patch will just serve to linearize what weapon choices are viable. With polearms, a similar situation can be imagined with the strong but low-end weapons like the long spiked mace ect. This raises the question of what criteria will determine the limits? If there exist varying slot-using items within a weapon class, you have to balance damage, length, speed and special effects (knockdown, extra shield damage) - it seems likely that the balancing will be imperfect and result in a strong favorite, or effectively nerf the whole weapon category by making all items 2slot.
  • Will heirloom redistribution be enacted? This is wrapped up in many other patch issues like redesigning generation bonuses, but reworking the weapon system so drastically would really call for some heirloom change reselection.
  • Will the melee weapons, ranged weapons or both have slot changes? Both would serve to completely eliminate hybrids, while ranged only would hurt dedicated archers and encourage more throwing - both actions being far out of line with the reality of balancing needs at the moment.
  • In practice, I doubt that 1hand hybrids will be significantly worse than the current state of hybrid fighting, at least at the higher end of the scale. 1hand weapons are actually beneficial for a lot of players due to the extra speed and ease of fighting in tight spaces; I predict that hybrids will garner as much hate as ever because the game is balanced so that any weapon type choice is viable for killing. Hybrids carrying picks, especially heirloomed, will be far more scary than the average bow/2handsword hybrid currently.

Having said all of that, I recognize the imbalance of having hybrids preform nearly as well as pure builds of both types. However, I think that approaching the problem by balancing some arbitrary weapon choices of hybrids will just cause the problem to resurface. I prefer balancing by giving incentives to the underpowered classes, as it develops features rather than restricting the ones we already have. As an example, why not code for a loadout based bonus like shortening the sprint activation time for users with a single melee weapon or increasing powerdraw +1 for archers with no sidearm. You may argue against the details, but I find controlled expansion of mechanics to be generally better than retroactive tweaks to balance. Try convincing an old player to rejoin because there is less weapon choice diversity vs you can specialize for skill bonuses.

I love this game and would never leave it after a patch, I just want share other perspectives for discussion before a hasty implementation leaves the problem unsolved and development heading in a less than ideal direction.

Oh and hail chadz regardless, as long as you keep updating  :lol:



Offline Keshian

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2011, 10:07:11 pm »
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Summary: hard to balance weapons, adding features rather than balance by tweaking adds new depth, mechanically and superficially, and could work just as well.

This idea sounds workable but there are a few issues that need to be sorted out before it fairly and effectively balances hybrids.
    .[/li]
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I love this game and would never leave it after a patch, I just want share other perspectives for discussion before a hasty implementation leaves the problem unsolved and development heading in a less than ideal direction.

Oh and hail chadz regardless, as long as you keep updating  :lol:
[/quote]

+1 to the idseas. :)
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Offline Beauchamp

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #86 on: April 14, 2011, 12:25:04 am »
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I just want to know what's happening with heirlooms.  I'm currently gen 2 with 1 loom and about 1 mil untill next retirement.  If heirloom theft happens I might as well wait to retire to get the most looms (2) instead of getting 1 stolen.  If its just gonna give them back I would retire now.

I believe the devs should let us know how this is gonna go down.  A little transparency never hurts.

for sure nobody will steal your looms

the only question is if people will be allow to change them after the patch
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Offline Blondin

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #87 on: April 14, 2011, 12:32:43 am »
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If i think of Strategus, hybrids are still a viable class, in terms of tickets, if you  die you change your equip, even if you don't die you can loot weapons.
On a siege for example, till attackers are in the wall you use your xbow, then you grab a shield and a sword to help close the gap and push the enemy back, and you retrieve a xbow.

Offline EponiCo

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2011, 12:47:31 am »
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Then otoh since commanders pay for the equipment you may not even want to outfit your archers with a melee weapon (since 90% of their deaths come when they have the weapon sheeted and they are lost forever), so all your PS and wpf in melee are wasted.

Offline Garth

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Re: 2 slot items
« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2011, 01:47:58 am »
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I had been toying with the idea of trying a 1h no shield build my next retire so this doesn't bug me much.  Either that or going back to my longsword. I would think that hip mounted two handers could be classifiable as one slot items since they don't share space on the character's back with the heavy/long items. :P

What does get me a bit is that, based on what I've read, the normal crossbow will evidently be unaffected when a masterworked one has the same stats as a non heirloomed heavy xbow (except with faster reload and more accuracy). The cutoff point in my head between power and speed was always between the light and normal xbows.

I decided to heirloom the heavy xbow over the normal because they're both pretty close in accuracy and reload speeds when WPF points are properly applied. I based my choice off of Walt's excellent research (back when most people thought crossbows were obsolete) http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1357.msg31805.html#msg31805

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As can be seen, both the normal and heavy scale similarly in accuracy (hunting and light flatten off), and the normal is a second or so faster in reloading in return for doing ~14% less damage. Basically, it doesn't make sense to me that the normal xbow would remain 1 slot and still possess most of the damage that a heavy xbow has. This will just cause dedicated xbowers to regrind normal xbows to heirloom and make history repeat itself. If it's going to be a nerf, get it over and done with and don't leave us with lingering hopes (and have them crushed in the follow up patch). :P