On side note I have to say that character lean his body froward way too much.
that is against every martial art i know.
Force should come from hips legs and arms not from upper body movement.
Whole body should move forward.
Not without replacing one of the current stab types (hardcoded limitation :/)
Is flamberge/HGS stab an own or simply THE polarm stab?
This has a much tamer lean than the old stab. (you practically fall over with the old one)When I look down with that stab it just put head way to much froward,
I only have this one leaning so much to give the reach, there is no other way to get similar levels of reach to the old stab.
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I think I might know why the length difference is larger than I thought, I don't think the translational part of the anim is used when you move, so the new one would be shorter.
I'll try to fix this, but it will mean more leaning :/.
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Visibility wise, I can change what the base angle is. I can make it so for a horizontal slash, you would be aiming the stab a bit higher.
This means you would need to look down a bit to stab forwards, hopefully seeing over your characters head.
Where is option to vote for 2h stab to be always on the polearm animation, like when halfsword stabbing, or stabbing with flamberge. Its a decent animation, its a realistic and historically accurate way to stab peeps, and it works well. Problem?
Well done devs, you finally did it. 2h is really shit now. Going polearm.
Polearm since GTX is one of ous now :twisted:
senni, why u hate 2h :cry: :cry:
All that is needed in my opinion.
Well feedback suggests:[/b][/u]
- Longer
- Less wooden
- Better View
Your will is my command.
It breaks the inter-class balance completely which is probably the biggest issue. Right now polearms are too strong in comparison. 1H stab is arguably the best right now (imo it was even before this patch), followed by polearm and then 2H which still carries the biggest stun penalty, has the lowest damage and now lacks reach as well. The stab stats need a huge buff to keep it in line, otherwise everyone will either go with the non-stab 2H which were already strong, or simply respec to far superior polearm class.This.
Besides the stats one of the big problems as mentioned many times before is that you cannot see the tip of your sword. That makes it impossible to time the attack right and see the reach of the weapon. None of the other animations have this problem. The other major issue is that it's not really a change we needed and it screws up some players that have perfected the current animations. In a mod that's already about to die, there's really no reason to start breaking individual play styles unless they are somehow overpowered which 2H stab reach game never was imo.
So in conclusion I'd say it was worth a try, but please revert it.
How can you say this:You answered your own question. Senni clearly shows that he made this change with the intent of making a better and more realistic animation for the 2h stab, because he did not like the animation, but he liked the class. This is probably not the same reason he had a major backing from the community, as you mentioned above. This backing was probably a result of people seeing a chance to finally get rid of the ''QQ op 2h stab'', if anything that seems to be the main intent, just form 4 years of experience with this community. This is furher proven by the fact that Senni showed concern for the actual strength of the new 2h stab, but most people never responded to his concern.
When the guy who implemented the change said this:
Just 2 posts above yours, the guy likes 2H, he didn't like the old animation, he got a ton of community support, he tried something new. Now he's made a new poll to hear everyone's feedback so that he can improve the animation again.
Well since he's taking on the specific feedback to improve the mechanic to something better I wouldn't call that insignificant at all. It's worth noting that whilst you're unhappy with the current animation/mechanic we're in a fairly unique and rare cRPG scenario where someone is actually physically working to address your concerns, take on feedback and update us on his progress.I mentioned that he weren't trying to nerf the 2h stab. I actually said that this was not his intent, because he had a love for the class, but just disliked the old stab's animation, but not its properties. However, it's very insignificant that you addres a tiny comment at the end of my post and choose to focus entirely on that. It was not even directed at Senni, it was directed at the general mindset that seems to be surrounding this new 2h stab, regarding realism>gameplay.
I'm not dismissing your issues with the new stab, you know the class far better than me, but I wouldn't simply dismiss the update as an attempt to nerf the class, the intentions were good and so is the ongoing effort to fix it. I cant speak as to the motives behind the voting since we all know what this community is like. I haven't had time to play much since the patch since it happened sunday evening, but a 2H tried to stab me and I didn't die therefore I agree it probably needs fixing, i'm not disagreeing with you there.
I haven't had time to play much since the patch since it happened sunday evening, but a 2H tried to stab me and I didn't die therefore I agree it probably needs fixing, i'm not disagreeing with you there.You clearly showed you have no intent of actually discussing the balance of the 2h stab, instead you choose to derail this by picking on the small things.
good, range of 2handers stab was retardly op and redicilous, not to mention they could swing while stab(adjust the stab after release)
You mean the same way polearm and 1h stabs can move left or right while stabbing??you should be awere of his stupidity and just ignore him
you should be awere of his stupidity and just ignore himI will in future, thank you
you should be awere of his stupidity and just ignore him
The ones who want the old abusable stab, are the ones who base their gameplay on it.
When the polearm lost the polestugger and after that the small polestun after each hit, I didnt see any polearmer crying like a little bitch.
But I guess that the difference between polearmers and 2handers, we suck it up and we adapt.
The ones who want the old abusable stab, are the ones who base their gameplay on it.
When the polearm lost the polestugger and after that the small polestun after each hit, I didnt see any polearmer crying like a little bitch.
But I guess that the difference between polearmers and 2handers, we suck it up and we adapt.
Ok, I've aimed the stab up towards the head, this way you can look down and hit the body if you so wish (to see the stab).
It's slightly longer, and I've tried to improve the anim compared to the sweetspot, so it should do damage when you expect.
4k img
http://i.imgur.com/phZ7zaP.png
I'm a polearm player and i already see some 2h players adapted. In my opinion stab is better now. Instead of high agi - s key -stab easy win combo, now you need to use it with a good timing which it should be at first place...
I'm a polearm player and i already see some 2h players adapted. In my opinion stab is better now. Instead of high agi - s key -stab easy win combo, now you need to use it with a good timing which it should be at first place...
Ok, I've aimed the stab up towards the head, this way you can look down and hit the body if you so wish (to see the stab).
It's slightly longer, and I've tried to improve the anim compared to the sweetspot, so it should do damage when you expect.
4k img
http://i.imgur.com/phZ7zaP.png
One of the main draws of M&B and cRPG for me was historical accuracy and it's probably the same for some other people too. Some people thought that it looked silly but the old stab animation was historically accurate, portrayed in German and Italian fencing manuals as an upper thrusting guard. There was also a lower thrusting guard that was similar to the new animation. I don't know if you've researched historical martial arts at all but imo it would be very nice if you did at least in this case.
After all 2h have lowest dmg on stab by far.
I crieded .No wonder with your country's economy.
I crieded .To be honest I found that funny.
No wonder with your country's economy.
Is that the best you can do, boy?I would rather ask your government that question, if i were in your position... erm....... goat? Are we just naming stuff at the end or something to seem superior?
1 hand stab has been the best and most abusable stab for many months. Think that should be nerfed now that 2 hand is nerfed tbhOkay let's nerf everything and the gameplay will be punching each other with the fists 'cos everything else is fucked up too much. I know, some people would be glad, but I'm afraid that there'll be no other people to play this mod apart of Krems maybe :rolleyes:. Seriously, don't nerf anything, the balance until the last patch was perfect and now game feels even more dead - people prefer to fight bots on DTV servers rather than play the broken battle/siege modes.
I would rather ask your government that question, if i were in your position... erm....... goat? Are we just naming stuff at the end or something to seem superior?
\I guess, after all you are the on that fap over that change.
1 hand stab has been the best and most abusable stab for many months. Think that should be nerfed now that 2 hand is nerfed tbh
Okay let's nerf everything and the gameplay will be punching each other with the fists 'cos everything else is fucked up too much. I know, some people would be glad, but I'm afraid that there'll be no other people to play this mod apart of Krems maybe :rolleyes:. Seriously, don't nerf anything, the balance until the last patch was perfect and now game feels even more dead - people prefer to fight bots on DTV servers rather than play the broken battle/siege modes.
That is more agility issue than 1h stab issue. Most 1h weapons that are good at stabbing are rather short and those longer ones are poor at cutting. There are examples which are good at both, maybe those weapons should be addressed. Especially weapons like Spathion. Of course, agility will negate range deficiency.
1 hand stab has been the best and most abusable stab for many months. Think that should be nerfed now that 2 hand is nerfed tbhyes, revert 1h stab to original state, please.
Punching was already nerfed because palatro had heavy gauntlets and chamber punched everyone to death.
One of the main draws of M&B and cRPG for me was historical accuracy and it's probably the same for some other people too. Some people thought that it looked silly but the old stab animation was historically accurate, portrayed in German and Italian fencing manuals as an upper thrusting guard. There was also a lower thrusting guard that was similar to the new animation. I don't know if you've researched historical martial arts at all but imo it would be very nice if you did at least in this case.There was too much wrong with the old anim to fix tbh.
You sure do love weapons with imbalanced stats. Next patch that halberd might lose 4 speed.hahaha
You sure do love weapons with imbalanced stats. Next patch that halberd might lose 4 speed.I guess anything i play automaticly needs a nerf for the hell of it.
position look sexy but the feeling is rly wierd.
you dont rly know where u hit coz its kinda hide by your back and have no real accuracy and compare too the op 1h stab it look rly less op
only good point i see is now u can do some crazy glitchy feint with it and totaly break animations.
revert it, old one was fine i dont get why it had to be changed...
and put back the old pole stab on langes messer plz !
oh and plz add the new hitbox ... coz how many times we had our swings or arrows passing through around the belt/belly part ?
Enlarged midsection won't articulate well when the skeleton bends over.
Not sure if the same principle applies to player hitboxes, but having lots of intersections in prop hitboxes caused huge performance hits in Nordinvasion.
I'd assume that it does still apply.
If there was a redo of the skeleton, I'd like to see the head hit-box stretched a bit in the Z-axis. Neck hits would be more likely to count as head hits.
Regarding the proposed version, scale down the chest and abdomen to reduce intersections and overlap.
hahaha
that would be overkill
I guess anything i play automaticly needs a nerf for the hell of it.
43% voted to keep itNah it's worse than the Moba communities.
you can be sure than those 43% are in majority not 2hander and just hater...
crpg best community after lol and dota ....
Anyway, since you guys still believe the 2h class is ''fantastic'', then you're very welcome to take away my 2h from me and trade it in return of a Scottish Halberd.Pimp my signature.
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=marketplacetrade&id=729790 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=marketplacetrade&id=729790)
Take away the 2h from the ''2h my old friendlord GTX''!
I think the animations for 2h generally suck, but out of 4 the 'lolstab' isn't the worst.
Fiore lists 12 guards in Fior Battaglia, one of those being the posta di fenestra, or window guard.(click to show/hide)
If you want to talk about the German school of fencing, you can take note of ochs (which is similar).
I think the animations could use some fine tuning, but other than that, I don't see why we need to fix something that isn't broken. I'd like the 2h class to have a different animation than polearm for the sake of variety. However, if enough plebs get it changed, it should be modeled after pflug.
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I think why people really hate the 2h stab is because 2h is a popular class. With popularity, you're going to have a larger crowd playing that style and within that a larger number of min-maxers (tryhards). What I recommend: Try down blocking. You can stop lancers that are down attacking from horseback. You can stop pikemen and hoplites from stabbing you. You can keep the 1h stab at bay. You can even nullify the power of the 'dreaded' 2h 'lolstab'.
Don't post that video of Lindybeige talking about ochs.
Enlarged midsection won't articulate well when the skeleton bends over.
Not sure if the same principle applies to player hitboxes, but having lots of intersections in prop hitboxes caused huge performance hits in Nordinvasion.
I'd assume that it does still apply.
If there was a redo of the skeleton, I'd like to see the head hit-box stretched a bit in the Z-axis. Neck hits would be more likely to count as head hits.
Regarding the proposed version, scale down the chest and abdomen to reduce intersections and overlap.
about hitbox...
2h used to have a stab that let you jiggle it like you can with an awlpike or similar stabby polearm, while, at the same time, having great swing animations (those polearms don't have 4 attack directions or are generally worse), and that let you even destroy lancers if used with a big greatsword.How are you not able to ''jiggle'' 4-directional polearms? After playing polearms for some time now, i feel like you can easyli act the same way with the polearm stab, as you can with the old 2h stab, with most polearms. It doesn't seem to need to be a awlpike or similar polearms in my opinion.
I like the new stab because the animation makes more sense and the only disadvantage I see is you may not be able to kill a lancer with stab like before, but you can always adapt. It's still useful in different situations, so I think it should stay (maybe with a tweak like you proposed).
What I meant is that you could jiggle just as a polearm, with the reach of a ranseur or so (good reach), while also having side swings with the easiest animations. The only polearms with which you could have a similar long-reach stab don't have the capabilities a greatsword has.m7
Yeah. You're right. I was thinking about polearms pre-patch. I still like the new stab anyway, just for the looks. :)yep
If reach is an issue now, damage could be buffed to compensate, or speed, or something, no?
Yeah. You're right. I was thinking about polearms pre-patch. I still like the new stab anyway, just for the looks. :)
If reach is an issue now, damage could be buffed to compensate, or speed, or something, no?
Not here Blackbow, make a new thread for it in the suggestion forums.
And guys, please try to stay on topic.
Constructive criticism is good, plain out ranting is bad.
the new animation doesn't transition well to any other attack directionWhich makes it uncomfortable at feinting. And range is still reduced too much. Sorry, but even if this version is playable at least, I'm still voting for the pre-february patch version.
It has been a long time since Micah last time managed to stab me, but with this new stab... it is just like stabbing the ground in native. That is how it looks and how it works. It may miss fluidity of the old lolstab but it is long enough and fast enough (way faster than old cRPG lolstab). Will respec to 2H to try it out myself. Think that buffing stabs is now out of the question.I stabbed you three times or so in a row (edit:and you did not even die!) ... this has nothing to do with 2h animation being bad ... more like you being 2tired2play (it was like 3o'clock in the morning) or not being adapted to the animation. Its not so hard to recognize. I would really give it all a bit more time to let the new style sink into peoples heads, its WAY to early to tell what is really good or bad about the animation (we have at least a good part of the community being infavor for keeping it).
ok ok so about new 2h stab :what else do you need than having a really sexy animation as a reason to keep it really ? Nothing really! If it has no other big issues ...
pro :
+ look sexy as fuck
cons :Its a new animation... after a while people will have adapted to it and, who knows, will possibly even use it more effective than the old one ... then ol'good 2h-stab-QQ will be what people cry about ...
- innacurate (personnaly i dont rly see where go my stabs and i do it in kind of random way, maybe its me and have to get used to it)
- sometimes stabs are kinda instant look like having no animationwhat? please show me that! It never happened to me, and i play alot 2h. Also, if it was like you say, it can surely be fixed ... its a non-issue, conmsidering, that the animation just was integrated and things like that can be fixed.
- stab feint then do swing make the animation kinda glitchy and hard to block for opponenti heared noone complaining about the same thing for polearms .. but they do it since the begining of time (cRPG time)...
- look like having less range than before and compare to 1h stab it look rly less effectiv.really ... before patch everyone crys about abusable 2h stab range ... now its to short ... I play 2h(sword) alot .. i find it all pretty ok
You simply can not prove it! Thus you cant use it as an argument! NOT EVEN IF YOU DO IT IN CAPS FOR A THOUSAND TIMES!
so please before taking a decision about keeping it or revert it
keep in mind than many haters are voting to keep it coz it's a kind of huge nerf of 2 handers (and proof than its rly less effectiv and wierd)
and this community always loved see their nemesis class getting nerfed or fucked.
and i still dont get why it have to be changed....Maybe, just for the sake of change ? maybe just for the "sexy as fuck" look ? Maybe for not having hands pass through each other in the animation? for physical impossible body pose of the old animation?
I stabbed you three times or so in a row (edit:and you did not even die!) ... this has nothing to do with 2h animation being bad ... more like you being 2tired2play (it was like 3o'clock in the morning) or not being adapted to the animation. Its not so hard to recognize. I would really give it all a bit more time to let the new style sink into peoples heads, its WAY to early to tell what is really good or bad about the animation (we have at least a good part of the community being infavor for keeping it).
I'm used to old slow animation, where I try to outreach stab (with the longest swing I have at my disposal). This new animation is much faster and that isn't possible anymore (at least I haven't figured out how to do it). Also I have no idea what stage of animation you are at. First version was easy to deal with because most of you twohanders aimed low as you usually do and probably stabbed the ground. Right now that doesn't happen anymore. This animation is much better than the old one, it isn't as long and maybe not as feint friendly (although you managed to mask your intentions well) but it is quick and effective.Unlike for the fubar cheated 1h-left-swing, 2h-stabs (the old and the new one) work with the same standard mechanics as basically everything else, which includes:
Imagine if a crpg-like game could achieve realistic physics/collisions... no dragging the final parts of the stab animation and stroking someone with it to deal full pierce damage, a game where weapons behave like realistic objects... I want
...
Unlike for the fubar cheated 1h-left-swing
FUCK double post
just one last thing after few test :get a shield scrub
with 120 reach 2h stab is pretty accurate but try it with a langes messer or any other short 2h...
even longsword is fucking inaccurate to me ...
plz put back the langes messer stab !!!
I thought you valued my opinions :'(
lol
Ok, now i'm really confused.
Porthos upvotes your post about how new animation is bad cos you can instastab with it.
He also upvotes posts saying that new animation is too slow.
C'mon buddy which is it? Do you not like the new animation cos it's too fast or do you not like it cos it's too slow?
and that it doesnt look good when you feint, it just looksa bitshittyand even more abusable, with the old one it went better with feints
This new 2h stab fits perfectly with everything else cRPG has to offer. Marvelous work, looks just the part. Watching two swordmen fighting is a treat to one's eyes.And a stab to the heart. Erm..... well in a metaphoric way, since their won't be anymore of that ingame.
2h stab completely outranged by even 1h now, Awesome.
A weapon used one handed will have more reach than if you used it two handed, just like in real life. :)
Basic geometry.
Sure, that true, but you're missing where most two-handers are a fair bit longer than one-handers
The balance of infantry melee weapons seems clear to me (but not to everyone it seems) :Thats not how is it at all. You might want it to be like that, but it's not at all. And if you truly believe it is like this, then you clearly have no fucking clue. What class do you play? I've played in melee for 4 years.
Polearmers have the longest reach, high damage, medium to low speed Damage dealer and support
Two-handers have a short reach, medium to high damage, high speed DPS and dueling class
One-handers have medium reach, low damage, medium speed but can have a shield Main line and protection against ranged
And no, 2h should not beat everything else.
(click to show/hide)
So, how is the balance of classes? From my experience in the game this is what I saw (i simplified a lot of course).
Well, i guess a game based around medieval combat would strive for realism while still maintaining balance. I was wrong. People want unrealistic balance.
I'm sick of this. Sick of partisanism. Sick of people that want their class buffed.
But I'm facing 2h heroes, i can't blame you. for centuries two handed swords were glorified, from renaissance longswords to 19th century katanas. Even now with films like LOTR that show longswords as the hero weapon.
You ''saw'' this? So you did not even experience it? How much do you even play the actual game? Is this all just ignorant opinions?(click to show/hide)
So, how is the balance of classes? From my experience in the game this is what I saw (i simplified a lot of course).
Well, i guess a game based around medieval combat would strive for realism while still maintaining balance. I was wrong. People want unrealistic balance.
I'm sick of this. Sick of partisanism. Sick of people that want their class buffed.
But I'm facing 2h heroes, i can't blame you. for centuries two handed swords were glorified, from renaissance longswords to 19th century katanas. Even now with films like LOTR that show longswords as the hero weapon.
You ''saw'' this? So you did not even experience it? How much do you even play the actual game? Is this all just ignorant opinions?
You ''saw'' this? So you did not even experience it? How much do you even play the actual game? Is this all just ignorant opinions?
Yes, a game should strive for realism, aslong as it doesn't ruin the gameplay and/or the balance. However, this is exactly what is happening, realism is ruining the balance and therefore also the gameplay. As i alrdy said: ''Realism is not a valid argument when it comes to balance'', which actually agrees with your statement, ''Strive for realism WHILE STILL MAINTAINING BALANCE''.
Now lets set this straight. Sometimes you throw realism out of the window, because it would cause absolutely horrific gameplay. Gameplay is the most important thing for most games, and i think this is one of them. The ''unrealistic balance'' might not be realistic, but it's probably going to be balanced, when it comes to the power dynamic between the different classes. If this is given through the ''unrealistic balance'', then that results in a game that offers greater gameplay.
4 years. 4 years during, I saw so many nerfs, coming from everywhere, that lottery you play at each patch, hopping your class won't get fucked completely, talking for every class. And I think I check forums for 2 years now. And I assisted myself to the biggest whining from people that want their class to be buffed, while others being nerfed to ground (I've been part of this whinning at the end, and I sincerely regret it, but what's done is done). And this, didn't remove only realism, but also fun (you know, that thing you try to get by playing a game).I don't see how thats relevant to my post, but alright. Clearly you have only stated on the forum, since you clearly have no clue what condition ranged is in atm, it's incredibly strong. Also no nerfs to infantry classes? Seriously, you gotta be kidding.
People started leaving when Tydeus released the New wpf formula patch and the other changes in it. Actually, it messed up everything, giving a clear path to completely retarded/min-maxed builds like 21/24, more like 24/24, 21/27 and the likes with the current leveling system. Classes being able to fight everything without even hybridization is wrong, but it has been made possible, through the nerfs to non infantry classes : put a cav/archer against a 1h/2h/polearmer, the formers will get their asses owned terribly in most cases (not talking about horse archers, that's another thing there...). When you make one meta viable against all others, you remove teamplay, and enforce retarded rushing styles comparable to CoD. Even without a shield, I know there's 50% chance for me to reach the archer, crossbowman, thrower, and kill him in a 1V1. Just know that your definition of fun is YOUR vision of fun, and not the vision of fun of the people that were playing back in 2012, where teamplay and playing together was a part of it. People left the game because it was becoming old, but also because the battle wasn't played on servers, but on forums, since people, not able to adapt their style against other classes, adapted the others classes to their styles. That's just sad we came at this point.
Yes I saw it. As far as i know the eyes are the main sensory organs of humans that let them be aware of their environment. I saw it as i played the game.As far as i know there is quite a difference between seeing something and experiencing it yourself. You might watch some concert on youtube, but there is quite a difference between that and then actually being there when it happened. I supose you did not understand this.
Do you have other rants or are you finished? I only heard you criticize what I said, but you didn't give your opinion on what is the class balance.
Edit: i play every class possible, i have like 10 alts.
4 years. 4 years during, I saw so many nerfs, coming from everywhere, that lottery you play at each patch, hopping your class won't get fucked completely, talking for every class. And I think I check forums for 2 years now. And I assisted myself to the biggest whining from people that want their class to be buffed, while others being nerfed to ground (I've been part of this whinning at the end, and I sincerely regret it, but what's done is done). And this, didn't remove only realism, but also fun (you know, that thing you try to get by playing a game).
People started leaving when Tydeus released the New wpf formula patch and the other changes in it. Actually, it messed up everything, giving a clear path to completely retarded/min-maxed builds like 21/24, more like 24/24, 21/27 and the likes with the current leveling system. Classes being able to fight everything without even hybridization is wrong, but it has been made possible, through the nerfs to non infantry classes : put a cav/archer against a 1h/2h/polearmer, the formers will get their asses owned terribly in most cases (not talking about horse archers, that's another thing there...). When you make one meta viable against all others, you remove teamplay, and enforce retarded rushing styles comparable to CoD. Even without a shield, I know there's 50% chance for me to reach the archer, crossbowman, thrower, and kill him in a 1V1. Just know that your definition of fun is YOUR vision of fun, and not the vision of fun of the people that were playing back in 2012, where teamplay and playing together was a part of it. People left the game because it was becoming old, but also because the battle wasn't played on servers, but on forums, since people, not able to adapt their style against other classes, adapted the others classes to their styles. That's just sad we came at this point.
Oh look, GTX is lecturing Algarn on the current state of ranged in cRPG, because clearly Algarn knows shit-all about ranged when compared to GTX.Clearly you're too incompetent or just blindly by your constant hate towards me, that consistently wants to comment whenever there is a chance, but i actually said the words ''i feel'', which means it's my opinion, but clearly i'm not allowed to voice it according to you.
Has this thread literally just turned into 'GTX tries to demonstrate how he knows everything about balance for all classes especially the ones he doesnt play'. Even funnier being that he's saying this to Algarn, one of the only ranged players who can consistently play their class well regardless of any nerfs, i guess Algarn isnt the kinda pussy who puts his weapon on the marketplace if his class receives a single 'nerf' to one aspect of it's gameplay.
Now im not entirely sure about low shield skill shields, if their coverage is crap they need buffs, but i believe they are worth a point or two for decent coverage. I would also like to see them getting halved weight when worn on the back or more even, because that has been my biggest issue with bringing shields.
As far as i know there is quite a difference between seeing something and experiencing it yourself. You might watch some concert on youtube, but there is quite a difference between that and then actually being there when it happened. I supose you did not understand this.
Furthermore you don't have to play a class to see how it stacks up on the battlefield, it's quite clear if a class is dominating or not, regardless if you play it or not.
I don't see how thats relevant to my post, but alright. Clearly you have only stated on the forum, since you clearly have no clue what condition ranged is in atm, it's incredibly strong. Also no nerfs to infantry classes? Seriously, you gotta be kidding.
So you changed your mind? :lol:No i didn't, but you're clearly unable to understand what i mean by experiencing. Clearly my analogy was not enough for you to understand, but i can try to elaborate. When i said experiencing it, then i meant actually playing the game and feeling the impact that the different classes has on the server. I never said you actually need to play every single class to ''experience'' that, because i can certainly experience if an arrow hits my body quite often or not, and then how much dmg it does. This is supported by my second statement, and not contradicted, so you tried to find a contradicting where there were none.(click to show/hide)
I got no clue, not a fucking clue about how strong is ranged haha. Sure, sure. Ranged is how it should be now, even if it's too accurate, cav is alrightish. All I see is that lottery as I said, the nerf-buff cycle killed the mod.Ranged should be like it is not? Completely dominant? I suppose you would love that. Try playing melee on eu_1, the gameplay is absolutely shit. It's the worst it has been in years.
He played 2h for 4 years, and switched to peolarm with scottish halberd when the patch came out. Thug life :lol:
No i didn't, but you're clearly unable to understand what i mean by experiencing. Clearly my analogy was not enough for you to understand, but i can try to elaborate. When i said experiencing it, then i meant actually playing the game and feeling the impact that the different classes has on the server. I never said you actually need to play every single class to ''experience'' that, because i can certainly experience if an arrow hits my body quite often or not, and then how much dmg it does. This is supported by my second statement, which you quoted, and not contradicted, so you tried to find a contradicting where there were none.
If i go on with my analogy... I placed you in the crowd of the concert, not actually as the guy singing on the stage. This doesn't mean that you don't experience it, because clearly you would anyway.
Actually playing the class is pretty important to know how strong the class really is. Unless its incredibly strong and basically anyone who picks it up will just score unusual amounts of kills, which isnt the case right now atleast, but has been in earlier stages of the game. While archers do deal quite a bit of damage now, they still seem to struggle with actually doing well overall.You can easyli see how classes stack up to each other without playing them, especially when you see your entire melee force hide behind a building waiting for flags every round on eu_1, because they are scared of the ranged.
You can easyli see how classes stack up to each other without playing them, especially when you see your entire melee force hide behind a building waiting for flags every round on eu_1, because they are scared of the ranged.
I still dont fear archers that much, allthough i get punished for it sometimes, it still feels worth it to push for them. You may be hiding a lot, but atleast from recent experiences my team has been able to push successfully even against archers.
If you havent actually played archer, you should definitely try it if only for a while.
Furthremore i played 2h for 4 years, so cut your absolutely laughable crap with: ''I leave my class when it receives a single nerf''. I played the fucking class for 4 years, and it got a ton of nerfs during that timed and i stuck with it, so plz shut your ignorant and dumb mouth. Ontop of that, if you had any brain, then you would know i traded my french for a polearm, but i still have my SoW. And if you feel like there is no way you could have known that, then don't state that i sold my 2h inventory.
All classes have gotten tons of nerfs over the years, stop trying claim that you were resiliant and stongwilled. Absolutely every single class player went through them. The main question is, does the class still hold up compared to other classes after the nerfing. 2h may have gotten nerfs, but its overall effectiveness was barely ever harmed. This time its been harmed a little bit more. Is it useless now? Personally I dont think so. It still holds up very strong imo. But the stab does take some time to get used to, it feels extremely sketchy atm.
I still dont fear archers that much, allthough i get punished for it sometimes, it still feels worth it to push for them. You may be hiding a lot, but atleast from recent experiences my team has been able to push successfully even against archers.I have. If i ever venture out of a cover, then i will get 1 hit and die quite damn quickly.
If you havent actually played archer, you should definitely try it if only for a while.
Why the hell would he experiment before he speaks about it ? His 4 years experience of one class are worth more than any experience.
Are you retarded? I specifically said that i stuck with 2h on my MAIN for 4 years. I don't know about you, but it think you're allowed to have more than one character in c-rpg. Ever heard of something called STF and alts? I played a lot of classes on my alts.
Its not very strong, its strong. I play 2h majority of the time. Im doing fine, so is everyone else i see using 2h. It may have lost a strong attack direction, but its true strenght always lied in its animations. And whats with the agressive undertone on your posts? Stop being shitty.Clearly we have not been on the same servers. It's ironic how you say the animations were its strenght, when that is exactly what was changed.
The balance of infantry melee weapons seems clear to me (but not to everyone it seems) :
Polearmers have the longest reach, high damage, medium to low speed Damage dealer and support
Two-handers have a short reach, medium to high damage, high speed DPS and dueling class
One-handers have medium reach, low damage, medium speed but can have a shield Main line and protection against ranged
And no, 2h should not beat everything else.
I would rather say:
Polearm: longest reach,medium to high damage,medium speed
2h:medium reach,high damage,medium speed
1h:short reach,low damage,high speed+ shield( which is quite a bonus
A weapon used one handed will have more reach than if you used it two handed, just like in real life. :)
Basic geometry.
edit: The previous 2h thrust anim had a artificial reach because the knees and legs bended forward in an impossible way. Good thing it was fixed.
Edit2: A short pole weapon like a poleaxe will have less reach than a rapier because of the way you hold these weapons. The more you know.(click to show/hide)
That's reality. THIS can't be implemented in the game because it's impossible. It would have to be a totally different game because the engine can't do that.
Despite Senni's insistence that the change wasn't motivated by it, it seems like a lot of the support for the change is due to a perception that 2h, and especially its former stab, was op and the change is a deserved nerf.
What I said about balance is from my knowledge and experience with weapons irl :
Long two handed weapons (polearms) have reach and have the highest kinetic energy because of their length (highest damage) but are vulnerable at close range.
Short two handed weapons (2handers) have the highest speed because of the double grip (lever effect, high torque)
Long one handed weapons are slower than two handed ones because most of the force needed to rotate the weapons come from your wrist (lower torque).
That's reality. THIS can't be implemented in the game because it's impossible. It would have to be a totally different game because the engine can't do that.
Edit: 2h fanboys, worse than weeaboos. Can't even hear any legitimate critique about their godly master race class.
Seriously though. What is wrong with this comment that made you downvote it?
never say never
Wasn't it later revealed/rumored that this video was fake and cmp simply changed the sound effect to be a troll?it is cmp dude
Heh nudge. If we were lucky like we are not, nudge would have the same effect as kick does (stun).
That 1 week of abuse did lasting harm, there are still people today who cannot comprehend that a player would do something in game for reasons other than to improve their K/D, so they say to me in game 'Heskey, y u nudge!? U not know they fix that free hit?!', because they honestly think I nudge cos I want that sweet K/D. The naïve fools!
Ive never gotten the massive crying over 2h or any other class for that matter. I play for fun, im having fun. Stop trying to overcomplicate things with claims that your class 5% weaker than some other class. Thats just pathetic. This isnt an e-game you know. Its never going to be. I've played mostly all classes exept cav over these years through various patches, the only time fun got killed was when nudge got implemented and stunned another player so bad that it gave the nudger a freeswing.
Mybe im wrong here. Mybe im just naturally retarded and thereby easy to please.
Wasn't there when nudge was implemented (otherwise I would be so annoying that Paul would give it up just to get rid of me), but while free hit on battle sounds awful, insta-kill is way worse and that is usually how nudge on siege server works (you fall down and die).
On siege is hard, because you have limited space where you can maneuver. And everybody and their mother is spamming nudge and bash all the time. Aside from archers who use nudge as main defense mechanism, most annoying player is called Janto_Capobranco. That dude is a true turtle and when he isn't holding his shield up, he'll bash you so he can escape. Most annoying style of playing since Sir_Agor.
Oh shit! Dont wake the dragon, DONT WAKE IT!
I heard that if your K/D isnt at least as good as it was the day before... you die!
How to have fun, while keeping a good k/d ?fuck I am so gonna do that!(click to show/hide)
fuck I am so gonna do that!
thx man
For this poll:
it would be right to consider the votes of players using 2h character :idea:
I think that no player 2h (sane) can appreciate the new stab attack :shock:
How do you feel about the new 2h stab animation?I don't use
"keep it" won, end of story.Exactly, it shows the condition that this community is in.
I hardly ever say that to peoples but(click to show/hide)
The animation feels weird, but I find the stab better than polestab, it doesn't have a start delay and is less visible to enemy.yea with 4~5 lower dmg on most of the weapons
(click to show/hide)
You can change your vote (always could).
...lol ... then please stop trying to make devs change the new stab back :P
And for GOD sake never ever even imply that retarded community(including me) have any deciding power when it comes to thingts like that.
...
lol ... then please stop trying to make devs change the new stab back :PI was talking about that poll, and way how they specified that points.
It was actually their decision to change it in the first place, for good reasons ... not the communities choice ...
It is by far not as terrible as a few people try to make it here. I still personally like it and the change that comes with it.
I see in this thread mainly the usual cry babies complaining ... i'd say its good to stay ;)
Majority voted it in and then majority voted to keep it.I have some qualms with the faith you have in this poll. First of all, it was posted too soon after release, I abstained until I got proper hands on experience with it, but I am sure not everyone did. Second of all, the forum as a medium has some drawbacks, mainly the large amount of lurkers that don't actually play the game and conversely the large amount of players that never visit the forum. Many forum lurkers probably just enjoy fucking about or even enjoy seeing the 2h stab changed solely because it messes with 2h heroes. I have qualms with putting faith in democracy anyway on any level, because many people have a biased or poorly motivated opinion, many single class players probably only care about their own fun.
Simply all there is too it.
I, by all means appreciate Senni's effort on having the time and interest in developing the mod and coming up with new ideas but I personally see the new stab pretty much useless. I just can't adjust it correctly when striking and I've heard many people have the same issues. I'm not saying it completely killed 2h but it for sure took away a vital function of the class. 2h is not nearly as fun or smooth to play with as it was with the previous stab because it was such a unique feature compared to the other classes. 4d 2hs don't feel like playing with a two handed weapons anymore because the stab has too much similarities with the polestab after the animation was changed. I don't personally like the fact that 2h was changed so much after having it around with the same features from the very beginning.Thank you! Spot on! Finally someone who actually plays the class a lot and has a decent knowledge of how it feels and impacts it. Instead of .... .
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It's not that much shorter.
I've even heard people call it OP.
I personally have no trouble using it to great effect in duels, battle and siege.
I've made some adjustments to the readying part of the animation, so it should be a smoother transition for feints and the like.
I've also tried to make it bounce less near full extension.
By all means, feel free to run another poll or something else.
But I do place worth on polls, statistically, there should be an equal number of biased people on each side, etc.
It's not that much shorter.atack is not bad, it just looks silly
I've even heard people call it OP.
I personally have no trouble using it to great effect in duels, battle and siege.
I've made some adjustments to the readying part of the animation, so it should be a smoother transition for feints and the like.
I've also tried to make it bounce less near full extension.
By all means, feel free to run another poll or something else.
But I do place worth on polls, statistically, there should be an equal number of biased people on each side, etc.
Do you know when these adjustments are due? Your post in the quotes is the only indication I've seen that there even is another patch in the works.
No idea.good luck with your exams pal.
But I'm going dark for awhile, exams and dissertation are due in shortly.
Last community developer has left us, what to do, what to do?
It is glorious how we managed to drive nuts every single one of those who signed up for the job.
I'm proud of you, comrades :mrgreen:
Nope, like slightly less than half of it are QQing afterwards.
When the change was proposed before it was implemented it was a far larger majority in favour of something new, that's what his quote refers to.
I'm fairly certain previous patch was the last cRPG patch. chadz said 3 month until M:BG, so we wait :twisted:
Are you trying to troll the shit of us, or is this actually some real stuff ?true but not for everyone(click to show/hide)
Last community developer has left us, what to do, what to do?
It is glorious how we managed to drive nuts every single one of those who signed up for the job.
I'm proud of you, comrades :mrgreen:
There was recently a new guy appointed to try and spearhead the dev-restructuring movement. He lasted all of two days. xD
A shame, too, since I had high hopes that he could get the right people in the right places and maybe even bring in some new talent, I was hoping that maybe the dev team could finally be structured similar to how a "real" dev team would be. Idk, maybe he will return soon. Apparently he got busy with work as soon as he got on board the crpg dev team, however, that does seem to be a recurring theme within the team...
Question is, why is it being worked on behind the curtains when there is small number of active players? Shouldn't current active community be involved somehow? Last time chadz&cmp hand picked wannabe devs disaster happened.
Then what is your role in this?
As long Americans are in charge of keeping cRPG alive that plan can't possibly fail, like history has shown us.
Thanks for your feedback. Fedora tip for you. :mrgreen:
Thanks Tony. I hope you succeed and manage to assemble dev team that will develop cRPG for years to come.
Not yet, you need to cry harder first
The new stab sucks dick.
I think 98% of people who voted 'keep it' are polearm users.
I think 98% of people who voted 'keep it' are polearm users.
log on to cRPG for first time in years to pub stomp as a balanced high level 2hander like I've been doing on and off for years..What a bunch of crap... but well, i guess its an opinion still ...
and wow what bored petty idiot who prob don't play 2hand and definitely does not know game design shoved this shit in a 5 year old 90 percent dead mod? 2handers.. always the most loyal of cRPG players.. betrayed at mod's end by some ego tripping second rate shit tier modder of a modded mod?
why don't you people go work on a car or some real life hobby and fuck that up instead of Warband/cRPG animations lmao, none of you are good at it, and so many years later in a half dead community of a highly-skilled, veteran playerbase some no name eurofucker thinks he can reinvent the lolstab?
log on to cRPG for first time in years to pub stomp as a balanced high level 2hander like I've been doing on and off for years..
and wow what bored petty idiot who prob don't play 2hand and definitely does not know game design shoved this shit in a 5 year old 90 percent dead mod? 2handers.. always the most loyal of cRPG players.. betrayed at mod's end by some ego tripping second rate shit tier modder of a modded mod?
why don't you people go work on a car or some real life hobby and fuck that up instead of Warband/cRPG animations lmao, none of you are good at it, and so many years later in a half dead community of a highly-skilled, veteran playerbase some no name eurofucker thinks he can reinvent the lolstab?
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I not only want the stab changed back, i want the guy who made it in the first place banned for life from ever touching crpg again.
That man cant be trusted.
That man cant be thrusted.
FTFY.
I still think the 2H stab is garbage. It does little damage, glances often and somehow looks really strange when feinting. Reverting to the good old lolstab - even though it's unrealistic for sure - would be the right way imo. The polearm stab is kinda shitty now as well as people have pointed out, but then again, lawlpike does 36p and would be insane if the stab was any easier to use :)
I not only want the stab changed back, i want the guy who made it in the first place banned for life from ever touching crpg again.
That man cant be trusted.
(click to show/hide)
I think it needs some tweaking. Still after 6 months feels so random for the user and for enemy.
Was there really any legit reason to change it to begin with, other than people crying that they couldn't block it? You can block the 96 speed greatsword stab on native at fastest combat mode, you should be able to block it in medium. Seems like the devs gave into people who just needed to "git gud", as it were.Nope.
Anyone who has fought me a decent number of times will know that I've learned how to use the new cRPG stab. Even after learning to use it, I have to say it is wholly inferior to the native stab, and simply unusable in many situations. I'm also tired of having to deal with not being used to the stab in other modules (Native, PW, etc) just because I play cRPG for the most part. This change is pretty much just a massive inconvenience for all 2h players - and it honestly feels like you're just using cRPG as a guinea pig for your development skills. :?
Theres a tweak in the hitboxes coming out soon (I don't think it was included in the revert patch, I think it was literally just reverts).
Nope.
I made the animation because I thought the old one was unrealistic and looked bad. (it was one of the few animations left over from before taleworlds used mocap)
So I learnt how to animate and went through many versions, poked Tydeus many times and finally presented it to the community in a suggestion thread.
It's not perfect, but I'm pretty happy with it. (The animation not the implementation)
Yeah it's not how I pictured it.
There is two main parts to animations in warband, the animation itself and the implementation (Module system).
Basically I had to guess what frames to use where in the module system (hard to test), guessed wrong.
There wasn't enough frames towards on and after full extension, in the 'attacking' phase. With sweetspots peaking at roughly 60% of the 'attacking' phase, and dropping off at the beginning and end => bouncing way too easily.
This has all been changed, it should now hit more solidly at the end of the stab.
Also I've made it look better in transition (feinting is better).
It's not in yet as the revert took priority (autobalance bugs etc), when next patch rolls around it should be in.
Senni's new stab and the animation before it are both incredibly inferior to the native 2h stab. I believe the native stab was removed years ago because the cRPG community seems to think it's too hard to block and makes feinting OP, but do you ever see native players complaining about 2h stab being OP like cRPG players do? Probably not, as they've spent time learning to block it and finding ways to counter it (which is what Warband is supposed to be about), instead of complaining until something changes like most players here seem to.
It's great that people still care about this mod and want to tweak animations and what not, but some of these changes are just unnecessary nerfs. If you're struggling to block the stab, it's probably a weakness of your own, not an issue with animation that needs to be fixed.
"I made the animation because I thought the old one was unrealistic and looked bad."
This made me cringe. I don't mean to downplay your work, because I agree that the new one looks better, or at least more realistic.
But holy shit, is it ineffective in actual combat. Please have a heart and give us the native stab back. I know you've worked on this new one a lot, but gameplay takes precedence over the aesthetics of the stab.
Senni you should really see the revert as one option. So far you've kinda floated past all the discussion that considers the revert. Roughly half of the population doesn't like it and I mean really.. they don't like it at all whereas the other side is kinda like: "mhh a 2h stab change, whatever, im fine with it". I would say the change has really effected negatively on the community.
The old stab has been here for ages and that's just one of the things you really shouldn't change, not that radically.
I hope you don't take this personally, I mean the animation looks good but it isn't functional and it changes the traditional feel of the 2h class.
The rest of us* mostly just said it's fine and moved on with our lives,
*=who never play the game or at least never play 2H
Before the 2H stab was broken, Polearm was already as strong if not stronger in duel situations and far better and more versatile in big group fights like Strategus. The old stab was fun, unrealistic, but imo not overpowered in any way. The new stab is boring, choppy and underpowered even though against light armor it has some strange instahitting possibilities. It's easy to shrug off all criticism by claiming that it's only the 2H heroes voicing their disapproval of a new "less overpowered" lolstab, but that's not actually true. Of course most people that complain about it are 2H users, how would you know otherwise if it's good or bad?
Are you suggesting we consider 2hers people?
Don't listen to them Senni, the people who dislike it are just more vocal. The rest of us mostly just said it's fine and moved on with our lives, so ofc don't feel the need to post here everyday that the new animation is fine
was the over the top and obviously advantageous broken stab mechanic.
Revert everything, give back turnrates, reduce my pping back to normal and praise jebus
Thanks.
Also just found out the changes did make it ingame.
Should notice better hitboxes.
People already found a way how to drag this new stab, feint with it and thus do the same thing they did with old stab, hit people a second after they are expecting it because they think it is almost intant animation (which is, but feint can hide that). If your goal was to fix that, then you failed. People will always find a way to abuse animation, no matter changes you make to them.
Bring back the native stab, end of story. There's no reason to make it different from literally every other module out there just because you thought it "looks better".
Really, who are you to change a CORE game mechanic just because of aesthetics?
I honestly feel like most of the people who hate this new stab aren't seeing this thread, and all the bellyachers who sit around on the forums not actually playing the game HAVE.
What kind of mad man would mod a video game to fit their preference, especially to change how things look. Can you imagine if someone change the textures of all loomed items to look fancier, what madness that would be. I just don't understand this concept of changing the game to fit ones preference.
Wasn't, haven't.
Like a broken record: It's because I thought the old one looked terribad.
Not because of the abuse (not sure I've ever said it was because of the abuse).
The hitboxes are still a tad unpredictable, so I'll look into that.
He's a current modder/developer working on the game, that's who. He polled the community before he did and got overwhelming favour, he didnt need to do that poll, Donkey Crew never did before implementing something new and radical.
I honestly feel like the same 5 people who hate this new stab are basically the *only* ones seeing this thread, all the nice people who enjoy the game are playing it.
He's a current modder/developer working on the game, that's who. He polled the community before he did and got overwhelming favour, he didnt need to do that poll, Donkey Crew never did before implementing something new and radical.
I honestly feel like the same 5 people who hate this new stab are basically the *only* ones seeing this thread, all the nice people who enjoy the game are playing it.
Knock it off you "two-handed hero" epithet throwing troll. This "Senni__Ti" whoever that is actually can't tell the difference between cheerleading shitposting and flaming in the "class/balance wars" and anyone actually talking about balance and design honestly and knowledgeably. Since I'm not an autistic idiot I know you've been making fun of 2handed players for years now and there is a vocal minority who will agree with any change no matter how bad it is just to grief players who "main" other classes.
However to step back from my inflammatory language for one very brief moment, if you read the past few page you see "item balancer" "item designer" etc titles on a whole bunch of people, along with many experienced veteran players, who were all trying to calmy, inoffensively, but assertively explain to Senni_Ti that it is nothing personal, but the animation is garbage and completely ruins the class and no one actually enjoys its aesthetics function or form.
The fact that Senni is still using this poll as some kind of validation to dismiss or ignore the genuine, repeated, glaringly obvious criticisms that just about everyone with a respectable opinion are positing is understandable, but hilariously disingenuous.
If I made a poll "Should I kill myself?" and it inevitably got a majority vote yes, would I do it? How fucking stupid do you think I am?
How fucking stupid.. are you?
This way everybody wins, 2h has an abusable mechanic, everyone else gets to enjoy 2hand tearsOH COMON
Hey, Senni. I'm not going to rail you out for the change, mainly because I respect you and all the community devs who've been keeping the mod alive. That being said, I'm going to say that after giving this new animation an honest attempt, I still have absolutely no idea how to use it. It's hard to see, hard to use, and I can't say any of the kills I've gotten using it were earned. I am not even joking, I have specialized two of my characters to be two-handers, and I still don't know what is going on with this animation. This treads into the realm of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it", and I genuinely think the TaleWorlds developers (like a lot of other features in Warband) designed it to look the way it did for a reason. The polearm stab and one-handed stabs are both very visible. You can anchor your vision on your character like you normally would. But the new two-handed stab has me looking at the point of my weapon, and often times because I can't really see where it's going, I have to look at a higher angle like the trick of hitting close enemies with a long polearm. Even then I still end up glancing or just going straight through the guy like he's not there.
Just as many veterans like the change, they just don't feel the need to flame here because they're happy.
If you count Rando as one of those calm individuals, you should know he bitches and flames about everything so his opinion is worth zero here.
I only really started taking the piss out of 2hand heroes after this change, because the reaction was hilarious as they try to claim their old animation was underpowered if anything and needed a buff xD classic 'buff my class, nerf everyone else' syndrome.
Hey, Senni. I'm not going to rail you out for the change, mainly because I respect you and all the community devs who've been keeping the mod alive. That being said, I'm going to say that after giving this new animation an honest attempt, I still have absolutely no idea how to use it. It's hard to see, hard to use, and I can't say any of the kills I've gotten using it were earned. I am not even joking, I have specialized two of my characters to be two-handers, and I still don't know what is going on with this animation. This treads into the realm of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it", and I genuinely think the TaleWorlds developers (like a lot of other features in Warband) designed it to look the way it did for a reason. The polearm stab and one-handed stabs are both very visible. You can anchor your vision on your character like you normally would. But the new two-handed stab has me looking at the point of my weapon, and often times because I can't really see where it's going, I have to look at a higher angle like the trick of hitting close enemies with a long polearm. Even then I still end up glancing or just going straight through the guy like he's not there.
When I first joined, there was this huge counterculture that was anti-strength and anti-2h, and it seems since the Donkey Crew left, the players took who volunteered to keep developing cRPG have catered to the unfounded claims that those two aspects of the game were game-breaking and needed to be put to a stop. But having taken a step back and really analyzed what separates the noobs from the pros, an understanding of the game and how other players move and swing will always triumph over silly animations or imbalances in builds. All in all, I think this was an unnecessary change, and I would strongly urge you to consider reverting it.
So on the one hand it's just as abusable, and on the other hand it's shit and doesn't look realistic.It is baffling because you still think that I want old animation back.
Whilst other people posting here that want to revert it are saying the opposite that it looks better but that it's underpowered.
OH COMON! If you're going to complain about the new animation at least be consistent. If 1/2 the community likes it, 1/4 feels like it looks better but is too weak, 1/4 feels like it's just as strong but looks bad, ofc they're going to go with what the majority think since your camp has totally opposite reasoning. Guess the poll needs more options.
Stop being such a fanboy and face the fact that your post has contradicted pretty much everyone else that is actually on your side in this thread, you couldn't harm the credibility of their argument more if you tried. In your post you say that old animation was fine cos pole stab and 1h stab are strong too, but in the same post you say that new 2h is still strong and abusable, so I guess it's all fine. Your internal logic is baffling, but i'm glad it concludes that the current animation is fine.
However to step back from my inflammatory language for one very brief moment, if you read the past few page you see "item balancer" "item designer" etc titles on a whole bunch of people, along with many experienced veteran players, who were all trying to calmy, inoffensively, but assertively explain to Senni_Ti that it is nothing personal, but the animation is garbage and completely ruins the class and no one actually enjoys its aesthetics function or form.No one being the half of the community which voted "keep it" in the poll, leading by one percent.
This sums it up quite good. I also believe that the old stab was there for a reason and I'm sure that you, Senni, aren't the only one that has made this kind of animation that starts from the hips. Taleworlds must've tried dozens of animations and the decision to stay with the one that starts from the head-level must've been the result of countless test animations with different positions.Funny, I don't ever remember seeing new or modified versions of the 2H stab during the beta.
No one being the half of the community which voted "keep it" in the poll, leading by one percent.
Including me.
Bbecause we have a different opinion than you, we must not exist or have any say in the matter.
From my experience, yes I do enjoy the aesthetics, function, and form of the animation.
Funny, I don't ever remember seeing new or modified versions of the 2H stab during the beta.
As I said, it remained unchanged, to my knowledge, through the whole development of Warband. There was no indication of any development at all. If they did mod it, they never gave it to the players to test.
ur fucking text under your avatar is "the pikeman" lmaoReal mature. Yeah my main is a pikeman. Obviously that means I am pining for weaker twohander opponents. :wink:
these are the kind of people saying the 2hand stab is better now, that much should be obvious
The people who played Warband since Beta and noticed the old 2h animation is the one that was never improved since earliest version?
Noone cares how much you believe something, you might REALLY like the republicans you still only get one vote. You may personally think your vote counts for more cos you REALLY dislike the change, it doesn't. You may think Richter's opinion counts for less because he plays a certain class, it doesn't.
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Cant tell if serious, or just trolling..
This sums it up quite good. I also believe that the old stab was there for a reason and I'm sure that you, Senni, aren't the only one that has made this kind of animation that starts from the hips. Taleworlds must've tried dozens of animations and the decision to stay with the one that starts from the head-level must've been the result of countless test animations with different positions.Funny, I don't ever remember seeing new or modified versions of the 2H stab during the beta.
As I said, it remained unchanged, to my knowledge, through the whole development of Warband. There was no indication of any development at all. If they did mod it, they never gave it to the players to test.
Played a bit of EU1 today, and i take everything back.
Clearly 2h is gimped and UNPLAYABLE now, i didnt see a single player using a 2h weapon, i didnt see anyone topping with 2h, i didnt see small bannerstacks of pros all using 2h as their weapon of choice and i didnt see people dismount cav with the 2h stab and then kill the rider as he lay sprawled on the ground with another 2h stab.
Everyone on the server was constantly saying 'I hate this game because of the change to 2h stab' and nobody at all was having any fun of any kind, because they were all thinking about how 2h stab was different.
The server wasnt well populated, EU1 was not populated by both EU and NA players as a result of NA servers going down, and i certainly didnt have a good time. I will not be seeing everyone on again tomorrow night at roughly the same time.
It's a plumbo rant, we just ignore it and move on with the conversation.
Funny, I don't ever remember seeing new or modified versions of the 2H stab during the beta.
As I said, it remained unchanged, to my knowledge, through the whole development of Warband. There was no indication of any development at all. If they did mod it, they never gave it to the players to test.
They didn't test any others in the beta, though there is one floating around in human_anim (it's half finished and pretty robot-like).
Also, I'll say this again, hopefully more clearly this time:
It's not up to me (solely) on whether this is kept or removed, there is a poll in the balance forum on whether to keep or revert.
Currently it's in favour of keeping, with none for revert.
If it had been the other way around or if this poll was obviously for reverting, it would have already been reverted.
I do appreciate the feedback on the other hand, I'll have a look at using an 'Ochs' style stance for visual clarity.
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Theres a tweak in the hitboxes coming out soon (I don't think it was included in the revert patch, I think it was literally just reverts).
Nope.
I made the animation because I thought the old one was unrealistic and looked bad. (it was one of the few animations left over from before taleworlds used mocap)
So I learnt how to animate and went through many versions, poked Tydeus many times and finally presented it to the community in a suggestion thread.
It's not perfect, but I'm pretty happy with it. (The animation not the implementation)
Yeah it's not how I pictured it.
There is two main parts to animations in warband, the animation itself and the implementation (Module system).
Basically I had to guess what frames to use where in the module system (hard to test), guessed wrong.
There wasn't enough frames towards on and after full extension, in the 'attacking' phase. With sweetspots peaking at roughly 60% of the 'attacking' phase, and dropping off at the beginning and end => bouncing way too easily.
This has all been changed, it should now hit more solidly at the end of the stab.
Also I've made it look better in transition (feinting is better).
It's not in yet as the revert took priority (autobalance bugs etc), when next patch rolls around it should be in.
Good luck appeasing both the people who say it looks bad but is still OP, and the people who say it looks good but is underpoweredpeoples have just diffrent opinions, it is really hard for you to understand?
So the item balancers' votes are the ones that count, not the rest of the community's who are the ones that are testing this everyday by playing the game?The Community poll is undecided (if it was keep or revert dominant, action would have been taken), the balancer poll is in favour of keeping it.
There are atm 2 votes more in favor to keeping it so the poll is basically even. How I see this, is that the change has just made 150 or so players more or less angry/frustrated whereas I believe that the ones that voted yes arent extremely reliefed or anything (except enjoying 2h tears) since no one really asked for the animation to be changed.Believing something doesn't make it true.
What I'm saying is that the excitement from the new stab doesn't really overcome the negative feelings that it has brought to half of the voters.
i haven't played this game in a while but the 2h stab pre whatever this change was, was really trash compared to the other stabs in the game and every good player was in unison about that. if it's been changed to be even worse like this thread says then the current balance team has done the impressive job of being worse than CMP, really should congratulate yourselves on that.
The logic is that out of the people who say the new stab is bad you give completely contradictory reasons as to why it's bad, totally opposite and mutually exclusive reasons. Rather gives the impression that neither argument is particularly strong, and kills any hope of Senni or anyone making you all happy with *any* changes made.lol
The poll is now 2 more on revert so, yeah its time.And over time, more and more people want to revert it. I clearly remember that in the beginning of this discussion the "keep it" option was waaaaaay more popular than the "revert it". To date we all had enough time to test it and decide whether we like it or not. So, yeah, it's time :)
str destroyed
good joke
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FYI 2H stab animation is going to be reverted back to native(Senni_ti's decision) next patch.
FYI 2H stab animation is going to be reverted back to native(Senni_ti's decision) next patch.
So... can polearm stab be buffed now?
So... can polearm stab be buffed now?
No, but there will be some tweeks to the native 2H stab so it's not as op as before.
So... can polearm stab be buffed now?
Revert 2h stab, improve polearm left swing, give 1h a 2 or 3 overall damage buff and remove turnrate nerf. Fix lag/ping and possibly reduce average level to 30-32 ish. Thats what i think would buff every melee class to an equal point.
FYI 2H stab animation is going to be reverted back to native(Senni_ti's decision) next patch.NOOOO! :shock:
i am competitive gamer, i play hard, and i play to win, i collect tears, and i drink them for everlasting youth ( or some shit, does it matter what they do? they taste GREAT! )
Not so sure about that bit, you don't want a flat increase cos dem daggers already have proportionally high damage, blunt 1h seem strong enough, pierce 1h maybe a point or 2 wouldn't hurt, but cut 1h is kinda niche and very powerful vs low armour, nearly garbage vs high armour unless a str-build with a very high cut weapon that lacks stab
1h is all good, but just a notch below 2h/pole in melee which it shouldnt really be.
Daggers got nerfed plenty already, i think it was a bit too much tbh but flat damage increase would probably apply more to the, ahem, viable 1h's.. blunt and pierce are so short, in this high level patch they just feel a bit weak when everyone can easily maneuver out of their reaches, and land easy kicks etc. Swords are decent with high strength, but i think they should be closer to 2h/pole in damage. 1h is all good, but just a notch below 2h/pole in melee which it shouldnt really be.
Yes it should. It gets a noobproof autoblocking device that is also pretty much the only way to survive ganks in this era of crpg.
Not to mention that 1h without a shield is honestly one of the best dueling classes currently. Their long range (due to animations) also makes them great for supporting others in teamfighting scenarios, while additionally you are also the only person who can swing in clusterfucks due to the short length of the weapon itself. Like seriously gravoth, you even play this game? 1h is top tier.
Getting quite off topic now, but you're forgetting that 1H also gets the smallest movement speed penalty of the three melee classes due to lighter and shorter weapons. The turnrate is extremely good as well compared to 2h and polearm. I have a habit of trying to avoid overheads by sidestepping, that I learned when all weapons had the same turn rate lock. It still works against most 2h, all polearms, but fails against 1H all the time. Definitely not a weak class.
And the other thing with 1h is that while it might be a slightly worse class for highly skilled veteran players, it's much easier for average and below average players. Great animations, good speed and no directional blocking. Also try to see it from the eyes of an average player that can hardly block those 1H swings, let alone think about kicking them while doing that. 1h weapons are the opposite of 1d/2d weapons in this game, which are absolute garbage for a noobish player, but borderline OP in the hands of a chase or knitler.
Steelpick-bots can kill me with three hits when tryhard with my fullplate str-build. Those animations can't miss my big head...
NOOOO! :shock:
Please tell me you are joking :o
I really like the new stab, eventhough i know i would score better with the old one. Thats the main mistake in most arguments imo, that people only argue for effectiveness and never immersiveness! Never really trying to embrace and appreciate the new thing the way it is itsellf, always comparing back to the old (which btw they had crieed about the same way they do now with the new stab!).
Giving in to those arguments is a sign for me that we are degenerating into a playership of foolish, overoptimizing damage and score whores. It saddens me, that we cant reach a balance between beauty and score-whoring by ourselfs(meaning: independently from the native game) - but we go for score and thereby blocking the way for new and future creativity in the mod.
For me the new stab is perfect in its own way, making a succecssful hit way more gratifying than the old one, feeling clumbsy and hard to pull off but physically correct and looking good still - and because its not a nobrainer insta kill with no relation to a physical process!
SIMPLY SAD! :(
The 1h class needs a substantial nerf when used without a shield. No self-respecting soldier from this time period would pick up a 1-handed weapon and nothing else to fight against a 2-handed sword or polearm. (I challenge anyone to find me medieval drawings of 2 evenly-matched warriors where one of them is using a 1-handed weapon and the other using a 2-handed weapon)
I see too many people running around like wannabe fencers from the renaissance. It looks and feels out of place in this game. They should WANT to carry a shield but they're too effective without them and therein lies the problem.
Getting quite off topic now, but you're forgetting that 1H also gets the smallest movement speed penalty of the three melee classes due to lighter and shorter weapons.Remember that there's an extra penalty for 1h weapons when it comes to movement penalty for weight.
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The 1h class needs a substantial nerf when used without a shield.No self-respecting soldier from this time period would pick up a 1-handed weapon and nothing else to fight against a 2-handed sword or polearm. (I challenge anyone to find me medieval drawings of 2 evenly-matched warriors where one of them is using a 1-handed weapon and the other using a 2-handed weapon)
I see too many people running around like wannabe fencers from the renaissance. It looks and feels out of place in this game. They should WANT to carry a shield but they're too effective without them and therein lies the problem.
I struck out everything that isn't relevant to game discussion. You can use history and realism to make your game intuitive (polearms stop horses etc.), but historical accuracy does not make for better gameplay. This was the crux of the issue for the 2h stab change.
Penalizing players for not using a WPF for a specific playstyle kills diversity and streamlines the game. I don't think this affects anyone but themselves.
Couldn't have said it better. M&B never was a medieval-simulator, it's just the theme of the game. I'm not saying that the developers didn't do their homework on the medieval stuff but really.. do we have to start replacing animations just because some stance is not realistic compared to actual medieval combat and replace it with semi-useless "wagabungahocheirwhateverthefuck"-stance seen in some medieval painting.. holy shit
And before some cumchugger comes whining about the previous stab being too OP, wasn't the original reason for the change that the native-stab just looked stupid and unrealistic?
Och's (native stab) is in paintings, mine isn't afaik.
I can't say I did any historical research on it. (quick google, didn't come up with anything I liked)
The native stab has a lot of body part intersections, fucks up hitboxes.
It's not that the stance isn't realistic, it's just a really shitty animation.
Basically it comes down to:
1) People don't like change.
2) I messed up the implementation of my anim.
I'll keep trying to get no.2 right, but it's not really fit for public consumption as it is.
I've been asked to tweak the old one, so it won't be a full revert.
Though it'll be pretty close (I'm trying to unfuck it, while keeping it as close as possible to the original).
For those of you with Openbrf:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102341596/2h_stab.brf
BTW if u wanna improve melee gameplay a bit have a look at curved weapon speeds: I cannot think of a single one that isn't too fast. Not much, but 2-5 speed too much an all curved swords. Just FYI.