[Poll] Feedback on 2h stab.

[kwhy]

how difficult would it be to add a toggle key to change stab animations much like pole/2h but 2H old/new stab while in game?

[Kadeth]

Senni's new stab and the animation before it are both incredibly inferior to the native 2h stab. I believe the native stab was removed years ago because the cRPG community seems to think it's too hard to block and makes feinting OP, but do you ever see native players complaining about 2h stab being OP like cRPG players do? Probably not, as they've spent time learning to block it and finding ways to counter it (which is what Warband is supposed to be about), instead of complaining until something changes like most players here seem to.

It's great that people still care about this mod and want to tweak animations and what not, but some of these changes are just unnecessary nerfs. If you're struggling to block the stab, it's probably a weakness of your own, not an issue with the animation that needs to be fixed.

[Rando]

Senni's new stab and the animation before it are both incredibly inferior to the native 2h stab. I believe the native stab was removed years ago because the cRPG community seems to think it's too hard to block and makes feinting OP, but do you ever see native players complaining about 2h stab being OP like cRPG players do? Probably not, as they've spent time learning to block it and finding ways to counter it (which is what Warband is supposed to be about), instead of complaining until something changes like most players here seem to.

It's great that people still care about this mod and want to tweak animations and what not, but some of these changes are just unnecessary nerfs. If you're struggling to block the stab, it's probably a weakness of your own, not an issue with animation that needs to be fixed.

Couldn't agree more. Native stab needs to make a comeback.

[Leshma]

Old stab is better.

[Senni__Ti]

"I made the animation because I thought the old one was unrealistic and looked bad."
This made me cringe. I don't mean to downplay your work, because I agree that the new one looks better, or at least more realistic.

But holy shit, is it ineffective in actual combat. Please have a heart and give us the native stab back. I know you've worked on this new one a lot, but gameplay takes precedence over the aesthetics of the stab.

The ineffectiveness of it has little to do with the animation.
The reason it's performing so shite is due to a couple of numbers in the module system, putting most the stab in a low damage sweetspot.

Yes it's inferior to the old stab, it won't ever reach quite as far or aid feinting through odd animation blending.

Not sure why so many people are inferring I couldn't cope with the old stab. (I've been a 2h player for a very long time, both in native and crpg)

Senni you should really see the revert as one option. So far you've kinda floated past all the discussion that considers the revert. Roughly half of the population doesn't like it and I mean really.. they don't like it at all whereas the other side is kinda like: "mhh a 2h stab change, whatever, im fine with it". I would say the change has really effected negatively on the community.

The old stab has been here for ages and that's just one of the things you really shouldn't change, not that radically.

I hope you don't take this personally, I mean the animation looks good but it isn't functional and it changes the traditional feel of the 2h class.

Even with the changes? (you helped test them iirc?)

Also I'm not glossing over the poll, I don't decide what goes into a patch or not.
There is a poll in the balance section, currently it's got none for revert.

Also I'd just like to thank everyone for keeping this (mostly) civil.

[Senni__Ti]

Thanks.

Also just found out the changes did make it ingame.
Should notice better hitboxes.

[karasu]

   Thinking outside the box, the most appealing thing about 2h when picking a favorite class in Warband, besides the obvious fluidity in motions, was the over the top and obviously advantageous broken stab mechanic. Hell, it's the class I played the most in both native and SP, for those specific reasons. Everyone loves to be OP and role-play helicopter pad motion Super-man diver.

   The animation itself is as if the human model tried to stab something in front of him, and tripped over his untied shoelaces, performing an unthinkable superman motion, and most likely the dev team ran out of funds to redo it back then, so "fuck it, stays like this anyway, we already left so many other things half-arsed anyway".


   Senni's animation isn't perfect, obviously, being one of the biggest problems in my opinion, aiming the stab, since the model blocks most of the motion (assuming 3rd person).

   So, ultimately, you have all 2h try-hard raging about this for ages, cause you took them the ability of transcending into MLG dorito eating sentient beings while having an unfair advantage mechanic-wise over the rest of the playerbase. A bit like polearm stabs pre-turn-nerf (that pike around everything, good lawd).

   If you revert it, you'll most likely have to revert/balance most of polearm stab related stuff.

[Mr.K.]

The rest of us* mostly just said it's fine and moved on with our lives,

*=who never play the game or at least never play 2H

Before the 2H stab was broken, Polearm was already as strong if not stronger in duel situations and far better and more versatile in big group fights like Strategus. The old stab was fun, unrealistic, but imo not overpowered in any way. The new stab is boring, choppy and underpowered even though against light armor it has some strange instahitting possibilities. It's easy to shrug off all criticism by claiming that it's only the 2H heroes voicing their disapproval of a new "less overpowered" lolstab, but that's not actually true. Of course most people that complain about it are 2H users, how would you know otherwise if it's good or bad?

[Voncrow]

*=who never play the game or at least never play 2H

Before the 2H stab was broken, Polearm was already as strong if not stronger in duel situations and far better and more versatile in big group fights like Strategus. The old stab was fun, unrealistic, but imo not overpowered in any way. The new stab is boring, choppy and underpowered even though against light armor it has some strange instahitting possibilities. It's easy to shrug off all criticism by claiming that it's only the 2H heroes voicing their disapproval of a new "less overpowered" lolstab, but that's not actually true. Of course most people that complain about it are 2H users, how would you know otherwise if it's good or bad?

Are you suggesting we consider 2hers people?

[StonedSteel]

Are you suggesting we consider 2hers people?

HAHAHAHAHAH

VONNNNNNNNNNNNNCROOOOOOOOOOOOOOW






more like pigeon.

(click to show/hide)

PIG-E-ON

( not my most constructive post, but 2h stab still sucks ass compared to the old one, which sucks ass compared to native )

[Gravoth_iii]

Revert everything, give back turnrates, reduce my pping back to normal and praise jebus

[Leshma]

Don't listen to them Senni, the people who dislike it are just more vocal. The rest of us mostly just said it's fine and moved on with our lives, so ofc don't feel the need to post here everyday that the new animation is fine

New stab is indeed fine but old is simply better, from gameplay perceptive.

was the over the top and obviously advantageous broken stab mechanic.

True. But every other animation is "broken" in the same way and can be abused. Without that "abuse", combat system becomes boring.

This new stab is also very broken, but it has narrower range of utilization compared to native 2h stab. That is what makes it worse.

Revert everything, give back turnrates, reduce my pping back to normal and praise jebus

That would be awesome. Limiting combat system isn't the reason why cRPG is better than native. Customization, character progress and variety of items are.

[Leshma]

Thanks.

Also just found out the changes did make it ingame.
Should notice better hitboxes.

People already found a way how to drag this new stab, feint with it and thus do the same thing they did with old stab, hit people a second after they are expecting it because they think it is almost intant animation (which is, but feint can hide that). If your goal was to fix that, then you failed. People will always find a way to abuse animation, no matter changes you make to them.

[Bronto]

Fucking A! This thread still going. 2h, the most vocal and largest vaginaed of the community. Keep the tears flowing nerds. 2h stab. Dat 2 H Stab tho.

[Senni__Ti]

People already found a way how to drag this new stab, feint with it and thus do the same thing they did with old stab, hit people a second after they are expecting it because they think it is almost intant animation (which is, but feint can hide that). If your goal was to fix that, then you failed. People will always find a way to abuse animation, no matter changes you make to them.

Wasn't, haven't.

Like a broken record: It's because I thought the old one looked terribad.
Not because of the abuse (not sure I've ever said it was because of the abuse).

The hitboxes are still a tad unpredictable, so I'll look into that.