Remove ranged cav from the mod?
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/archery-overhaul-62442/
In this suggestion I propose that all bows require 2 slots, the top tier bows 3 slots, and a decrease in missile speed.
Also 5 arrows in a bodkin quiver.
Lower tier bows wont be able to use top tier arrows.
- HA will have less arrows, so theyll run out sooner.
- no mindless armour piercing spam - direct buff to heavy infantry and heavy cavalry. Heavy cav will be able to counter once more. Plate armor will serve its purpose.
- lower tier (2 slot bows) will not be able to use top tier arrows at all - lower tier should be lower tier, not headshot machines with uber pewpew accuracy.
So basically you want to destroy archery completely.
Only nerf Archery itself needs is maybe decrease the amount of arrows per quiver by 5 or so. A lvl30 archer can either be good at archery, or mediocre at archery and melee at the same time.
Horse Ranged however need a bigger nerf, since they do not need any melee capabilites because they can kite literally the whole 7 minutes. At the same time they do an incredible amount of damage due to speed bonus and bumping.
So there wasn't any capable crossbowman to shoot their horse or directly him ?
So there wasn't any capable crossbowman to shoot their horse or directly him ?
Not possible :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Did you spectate and check so that they no one on the other team fed them score at the end of the round? its become a thing apparently for clanmates to never attack eachother during battles except in the end where one stands still and feeds valour to the other. Im looking at you barabe scum, i saw you all playing HA's and not shooting a single shot at eachother even when you got switched so you had like 3 HA's on each team. Lazy ass admins didnt do shit to ban when teamworking across teams either.
I forgot to mention that with it comes a significant damage buff, individual arrows will cause more damage but they will be more scarse - this will result in archers having bto think before they shoot - mindlessly shooting shields, for example, will be a waste of arrows.
This is in no way a nerf to archery, this is solely a way to make archery less unforgiving then it currently is.
Is it a nerf? Yes, to their playstyle - not their effectiveness. Will this destroy archers? Yes, but only those who cant aim for shit and are, up untill now, allowed to mindlessly spam their arrrows without any concern of going out of arrows.
Ps: if you really want to understand my suggestion id say read and comprehend the thread - I am 100% sure that this could work and bring more depth to archery.
Did you spectate and check so that they no one on the other team fed them score at the end of the round? its become a thing apparently for clanmates to never attack eachother during battles except in the end where one stands still and feeds valour to the other. Im looking at you barabe scum, i saw you all playing HA's and not shooting a single shot at eachother even when you got switched so you had like 3 HA's on each team. Lazy ass admins didnt do shit to ban when teamworking across teams either.
Seriously, teamworking when on different teams should not be allowed.
[...] HA shouldn't be able to use heavy horses.
I though I was paranoid when I saw this, I was charging with a barabe one day and he refused to help me kill this other barabe, instead he kept running in my swing blocking them and even reporting the TH..
Did you spectate and check so that they no one on the other team fed them score at the end of the round? its become a thing apparently for clanmates to never attack eachother during battles except in the end where one stands still and feeds valour to the other. Im looking at you barabe scum, i saw you all playing HA's and not shooting a single shot at eachother even when you got switched so you had like 3 HA's on each team. Lazy ass admins didnt do shit to ban when teamworking across teams either.
Seriously, teamworking when on different teams should not be allowed.
we are not byz gayvoth!
you are mad for two days....sad!
Just because im good as HA (Zero_SaT) doesnt mean that it should be nerfed?The point, is that it shouldn't have the killing potential that it has. Topping the scoreboard in kills, which is often done by HA, necessarily means it has too much killing potential. It should not be on equal footing as melee, period.
we are not byz gayvoth!
you are mad for two days....sad!
Just because im good as HA (Zero_SaT) doesnt mean that it should be nerfed? btw teeth, u took 15 arrows before you died so dont complain.. see u in-game. //Zero_SaT and Barabe_Zibart
The damage buff would have to be immense. At the moment I am using a MW Rus Bow and have 6 Power Draw. Some people can take like 6+ arrows and still walk around like nothing happened.The damage buff will be insane, though lower for low tier bows, but an arrow is supposed to hurt! With the bigger damage + reduced total quiver shield walls will finally be usefull, the more arrows are caught by shields the less they hit players.
If I had only 10 arrows (Read that you want the 5 Arrow quiver to be 0 slots), even with a reasonable damage buff, I would still need like 4 arrows to take some people down. That is one quiver gone right there assuming I miss only one shot.
I agree that the amount of arrows need to be decreased, but such a huge change to archery is uncalled for.
In the end of the day there would be countless people crying about how OP Archery damage is. Because nobody notices the arrows flying into the middle of nowhere, but everybody notices the arrow stuck in their torso.
And that arrow would deal a lot more damage than it is the case right now.
People would not notice being shot at less often. But they will notice an arrow hitting them and they will cry about it taking 70% of their hitpoints.People will always cry about archery, but the spam has to end, and actual skill and thought is what archery needs to have. Can you imagine an archer shooting another archer with that damage? They will be punished hard for skirmishing legolas style in the open.
Leave everything as it is, except for reducing the quiver size by 5 arrows or so. (But then you gotta reduce the quiver weight as well)
Then nerf HA a bit more by making Yumi unusable on Horseback, or reducing their angle of firing or whatever is being suggested.
I'm kinda sad to hear that something like that happened to you :/
I knew my guys were teamworking when they are not in the same team, but I didn't know that this kind of thing occured, I'm sorry and I'll try to speak to my guys to see if I can make them stop that, eventhough I know that they won't stop giving each others valour.
teeth, u took 15 arrows before you died
We may be byzcuntium abusing whatever we find enjoyable, but atleast we dont break the auto balance by not attacking eachother, we do the complete opposite, the one who gets switched is the one who dies first.we didnt break any rule and im sorry i didnt know you guys never breake a rule!!!
And it does not occur to you that being able to pump 15 arrows into a highly skilled player such as Teeth requires some kind of nerf to HA?
And it does not occur to you that being able to pump 15 arrows into a highly skilled player such as Teeth requires some kind of nerf to HA?
You can't judge if a class is op or not by looking at individual player's performances.
Like I stated in previous HA threads, the ability horse archery, should effect the speed and manuverability of a horse archers horse, this would make them easier to shoot And easier to hunt down as cav, so many times I find myself chasing an HA and never being able to cAtch him because he is faster and able to shoot my horse without any risk.I don't know a lot about history and I know skilled horsemen should be able to steer without reigns, but what about less maneuverability while drawing the string of your bow?
The problem is that HA should not be a class to carry a whole bloody team.
It should support the teams cavalry or infantry.
I don't know a lot about history and I know skilled horsemen should be able to steer without reigns, but what about less maneuverability while drawing the string of your bow?
Maybe it's a bit egoistic, but I would be very happy because this would mean cav can escape from HA's.
Just because im good as HA (Zero_SaT) doesnt mean that it should be nerfed? btw teeth, u took 15 arrows before you died so dont complain.. see u in-game. //Zero_SaT and Barabe_ZibartYou are not as exceptional as you might like to think. Smurf_niluk for example has been carrying the board with insane numbers of kills as well and I can think of many players have at some point been great horse archers that could do the same if they got a high level build now. Even then it is besides the point. I do think you can nerf a class based on individual performances, especially if that class has top notch range and speed and is thus mostly untouchable. An untouchable class should not be able to go 24/1 in the hands of anyone.
Teeth has more points than the HA.The only reason I got so many points this map is because I spawned late among about 8 spawnrushing scrub cav that refused to accept that someone with a ranseur can get away from spawn alive. They insisted on believing that people are unable to stab a horse if there are two of them charging and fed me like 80 points in one round, good times.
NERF POLEARMS CUZ OBVIOULSY OP AS FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok lets make hew thread about archers then. cuz they are top boarding: nebun,shoko,steevee,bagge...should i continue?
instead of non-stop whining on forum do something on server...take a thrower and deal with it ffs!
Are you even reading my posts? Stop picking a few words out of the whole context.
Since when is a normal archer able to kite the whole round, while being able to kill everything in front, next to, and behind him?
Everybody who has a normal amount of agility wearing medium armour can catch an archer who is trying to run away. Unless he drops his bow, then he cannot shoot anymore though.
A HA can run away forever, is a whole lot faster than everything else on the battlefield, and can still attack while running away. THAT is the problem.
few words? oh it was friday yesterday. or you go party saturday night?
archers loves roofs and hills. go and catch archers i mention on roof or mountain/hill.
2h should be nerfed long ago same as 1h cav. same as low pd req bows.
imo this whine threads about nerfing are discusting, same as whiners!
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About that kiting ability and shot, i don't remember well, but isn't in the old days, HA could'nt shot at 180° right? i'm not sure, but at least that would force them to turn to shot and slow them a bit, instead going straight on full speed and shoting 180°. Just an idea.
Rules:
No Horse Archery or Horse Crossbowmen. - Perma Ban (Horse Throwing is allowed.)
I don't care what day it is or was, my point is valid on a Friday as well as on any other day of the week.
I am catching archers on roofs and hills on the daily. I don't see your point here.
And all other classes, 2h, 1h cav, even normal archers, are possible to be caught and killed.
None of these classes can damage you while enjoying basically immortality like Horse Archers do.
Make it possible to catch a HA and there would be no discussion.
if I was able to create threads like this in english instead of my direct "nerf HA cause OP" people would know my ideas aren't that bad. I might hire someone to write a level 31 STF threa.
On topic yes, I agree, it's obviously OP; a class that can deal 36 cut damage + 40% or 28 pierce damage +40% (I assumed they had 5 pd), moving around with OP horses such as arabian war horse (yes it's OP it can almost dodge arrows better than infantry with 8 riding) and shooting from distance is OP; another broken thing is bump damage by horses.and finally, HA shouldn't be able to use heavy horses.
u say damage required but teeth today i shot 11 times with my arrows and u didint dead. so wtf are u saying? lol. ha should be buffed
I think the problem comes from the fact that he can pump 15 arrows in a person (and probably teeth wasn't the only that round) without danger for his own life.
u say damage required but teeth today i shot 11 times with my arrows and u didint dead. so wtf are u saying? lol. ha should be buffed. be a horse archer if it easy then lol
u say damage required but teeth today i shot 11 times with my arrows and u didint dead. so wtf are u saying? lol. ha should be buffed. be a horse archer if it easy then lol
You failed the moment you started playing HA and wanted to banner stack with the other horse archer scumbags from Barabe
Edit: I say scumbags since 4-6 horse archers in one team breaks the balance of the server and makes it shit for everyone else
BARABE:
those without the necessary properties of good in human society, coarse, vulgar and violent man, scumbags
btw bagge what do you think, guys which are not in big clans think about playing vs byz,mercs,greys,barabe etc etc stack?
Well, towards infantry or ranged on foot you can actually fight back. You can't fight back at the Barabe or the turkish Seljuk horse ranged stack.
imho horse archery is too expensive
Like I stated in previous HA threads, the ability horse archery, should effect the speed and manuverability of a horse archers horse, this would make them easier to shoot And easier to hunt down as cav, so many times I find myself chasing an HA and never being able to cAtch him because he is faster and able to shoot my horse without any risk.
3.) The angle at which the archer is facing away from the front of the horse effects the accuracy of the bow. So, if you are looking as far backwards as you can, your accuracy would be greatly reduced compared to when you are shooting directly forward. See this Wikipedia artcile on the Parthian shot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_shot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_shot)
Make horses take up an item slot.
imho horse archery is too expensiveThis is just a barrier for new players being HA. There's too much gold in the economy currently as-is and doesn't really deter older players.
cause while these two might lead the scoreboard, their team still loses and they actually would need valour in order to make a profit
If I'm leading the scoreboard on the wrong side thats just my shitty team and high repair costs for me - your tears only make the fall softer
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I just seen that PD adds 14% not 8% like PS so it's 70% more damage not 40; wtf?
also is it that hard to nerf them? arabian war horse needs a nerf in general, for the heavy horses thing you could add a malus to riding on HArchery, the yumi definitely needs a nerf, should be 2 slots. bump damage probably needs a nerf in general. also there should be a malus on headshot, considering they're much easier and frequent because of their raised position on horses but I'm not really sure on this one.
I dont think HA's are op at all, like barbie scumbags mentioned it can take 10 or so arrows to kills a decently armoured infantry. They are super boring and gay but thats ok, MOTF helps to stop the delay quite a bit (unless it bugs, then HA should be forced to die or dismount atleast).
But for gods sake ban any teamwork across teams because the balance atleast tries to spread out the horse archers, but what does that do when they dont attack eachother anyways. HA's counter HA's pretty much, and if they just have a pact of peace they can all go ham on both sides infantry, which is full homosex. Pls admins
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginYeah what a crybaby. Crying about players who work together regardless of the fact that they are on opposite teams, what a wuss. I am with you on this one Perverz, i don't see why working together when you're on opposite teams is such a big deal, just suck it up and deal with it.
Yeah what a crybaby. Crying about players who work together regardless of the fact that they are on opposite teams, what a wuss. I am with you on this one Perverz, i don't see why working together when you're on opposite teams is such a big deal, just suck it up and deal with it.
PS: (Obvious sarcasm, but i fear that Perverz might not spot it, so i'll just leave this here).
Not possible :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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I always found the excuse of "my class is too expensive" irrelevant
Min maxing is expensive, its the same for EVERY class
and you can still use cheaper gear
I use barbed arrows and a horn bow, thats not min-maxing
To me, the only reason of complaints is actually just the rare occasions when a clan has theme-days and stacking HAs.
Tbh, Byzantium having their "lolpike" evenings is similar enjoyable as HA stacking.
1 or 2 HAs on the server is hardly an issue and when you're not completely blind, it's even rather easy to dodge them.
It always boils down to their numbers...
My suggestion: whenever something stacks on EU1 that you don't like, can't deal with - join EU2 and play there. Barely any cavalry, hardly noticeable amount of ranged and not a single HA.
To me, the only reason of complaints is actually just the rare occasions when a clan has theme-days and stacking HAs.
Tbh, Byzantium having their "lolpike" evenings is similar enjoyable as HA stacking.
1 or 2 HAs on the server is hardly an issue and when you're not completely blind, it's even rather easy to dodge them.
It always boils down to their numbers...
My suggestion: whenever something stacks on EU1 that you don't like, can't deal with - join EU2 and play there. Barely any cavalry, hardly noticeable amount of ranged and not a single HA.
My suggestion: whenever something stacks on EU1 that you don't like, can't deal with - join EU2 and play there. Barely any cavalry, hardly noticeable amount of ranged and not a single HA.
We dont do pike events, the most recent event we did was plated charger and before that we only did spartans :C We do use pokey pikes a lot though in general.
.. as the voting on this thread shows, it ruins the experience for the rest of the player base.
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Before Throwing lance nerfing, I could dehorse a HA in a single shot. They were not a real threat. Now my class is useless.
...and a bunch of people that don't give a damn about flag because 'walls are in need'...(click to show/hide)
piss off HA = feed him points as he shoots into your lumbering fat slow horse pathetically trying to chase him, until he finally dehorses you, except if he's retarded enough to run into a wall or tree or inf on your team. Yeah I'm sure that totally chafes them raw.
Lets see how fast horses are.
Common HA horse speeds:
Steppe horse 37
Arabian horse 40
Padded warhorse 42
Destrier 43
The armoured horses range from 38-41.
Both HA and Cav will have around 6-8 riding
Are horses worth more points?
Apart from other ranged, nothing else can really counter mounted ranged. And the sad thing is that most of the ranged twats focus their arrows on low armoured infantry, just to increase their K/D ratio. They only shoot at you if they feel threatened.
Many things that annoy me about HA, but pls, remove valor from them if flags have spawned and they lose and are on horse. Damn lame to see HA getting valor when they dont even try to win. Oh and insta kill on guys at horseback if flags bug thx.
Also if they hunt down guys with the lowest armor wouldnt they do the most damage?
ok lets make hew thread about archers then. cuz they are top boarding: nebun,shoko,steevee,bagge...should i continue?
instead of non-stop whining on forum do something on server...take a thrower and deal with it ffs!
Yeah but not everyone has to turtle up like you to be able to get at least 5 points a round(click to show/hide)
Probably because a thrower can't do jack if a ha focuses him. Example: I was fighting enemies in my spawn when a HA (Niluk, I beleive) showed up on his horse. Everyone was too busy fighting so I didn't have any aid. Niluk bumped around 5 times and got two arrows on me. My only hope would have been picking up a dropped spear but being bumped as I was I couldn't. After bumping me several times I guess he got bored and finished me off. If that's the kind of fun you enjoy then you are a sadist asshole, I don't see why other players should have to deal with that.
Throwing is a fucking joke. Who cares what you dealwith pissant.
Archery is dumb in this game. Horse archery is just dumb on a horse. The problem is how this game manages the whole ranged thing. Arrows in this game fly for too long and too flat. You have to give a really big angle in a real life bow to hit anything past 10 meters, In this game the arrow is almost in a flat trayectory for most of its travel, that makes it unrealisitc and to easy to aim and hit.This seems pretty true. Sometimes I get the impression that throwing behaves more like archery should than archery itself.
Wouldnt be any issues if there was some kind of class balance. The problem is not the range class(es) itself but the sheer amount of them.Do you realize archery was with the mankind since basically "always"?. In war conflicts, the bow wasnt the best method to fight. It wasnt as effective. That is why mankind actually started using close range weapons. Bows werent enough to kill other persons so they invented melee weapons and got closer. The fact melee weapons outclassed ranged weapons in the prehistory, that tells you that archer never been the most effective way to kill a person in a conflict. And please, dont compare rifles to bows coz that is very silly. Ranged is the safest, not always the most effective. Dont confuse things. IF it was so effective, people could have used bows as we use rifles today, as a main weapon for everyone.
Why do we have fire-arms today? Evolution. Range is the most effective/low risk/low cost weapon/inf. unit.
This seems pretty true. Sometimes I get the impression that throwing behaves more like archery should than archery itself.
Do you realize archery was with the mankind since basically "always"?. In war conflicts, the bow wasnt the best method to fight. It wasnt as effective. That is why mankind actually started using close range weapons. Bows werent enough to kill other persons so they invented melee weapons and got closer. The fact melee weapons outclassed ranged weapons in the prehistory, that tells you that archer never been the most effective way to kill a person in a conflict. And please, dont compare rifles to bows coz that is very silly. Ranged is the safest, not always the most effective. Dont confuse things. IF it was so effective, people could have used bows as we use rifles today, as a main weapon for everyone.
just play native if you think crpg arrows fly straight. its basically star wars over there
but on the other hand, every infantry can carry a shield.
Archery is dumb in this game. Horse archery is just dumb on a horse. The problem is how this game manages the whole ranged thing. Arrows in this game fly for too long and too flat. You have to give a really big angle in a real life bow to hit anything past 10 meters, In this game the arrow is almost in a flat trayectory for most of its travel, that makes it unrealisitc and to easy to aim and hit.
Bow>crossbow>(gunpowder)>firearms. It is a projectile fired from a mechanic device developed to increase the trust/speed of the projectile. The device evolves into what we have today: Firearms. Everything else was scrapped because: It BECAME the most effective. In cRPG we are playing right on the crossline period-wise with bows and crossbows and where gun-powder was invented >> followed by fire-arms as we know them. In this period i think its pretty safe to say that crossbows were generally regarded as if not the most effective then one of the elite units. Just a question about when and how to phase out the melee soldier.Still not comparable. Rifles and derivates are the only thing that certainly outclassed and replaced any other kind of close ranged weapon. But it was the contrary before. Being close range weapons the most useful and bows and similars just an "auxiliar" weapon. IF it wasnt like that, they would be just using bows until recently. Humans will always fight from a distance if posible. The fact they got so close tells you bows actually werent as good to kill people as people think they were. And hey, the bow isnt the only ranged weapon used in ancient times. You simplify it too much. Oh and also fail to see how the bow and xbow werent used tactically like firearms were. So tehy arent really comparable. Firearms actually brough a revolution in how wars were fought. Changed it all. No other weapon until it did that before. So again, no comparable.
Bow>crossbow>(gunpowder)>firearms. It is a projectile fired from a mechanic device developed to increase the trust/speed of the projectile. The device evolves into what we have today: Firearms. Everything else was scrapped because: It BECAME the most effective. In cRPG we are playing right on the crossline period-wise with bows and crossbows and where gun-powder was invented >> followed by fire-arms as we know them. In this period i think its pretty safe to say that crossbows were generally regarded as if not the most effective then one of the elite units. Just a question about when and how to phase out the melee soldier.Your reasoning sucks.
Ive seen longer shots and sure, hitting something from 150 meters is posible. But hitting something like that while that thing is moving, in a split a second, for full damage, that is another story. In this game all bows shoot too flat I would say, being the long ones the less unrealistic (of course). And as you can see, the arrow reached the target with so low energy it wasnt enough to get it stuck in the cheap ass wooden table....
Looks like a traditional rus-bow or long-bow (i know its saying longbow but i doubt it tbh.). His shooting angle (when releasing) isnt that wide is it? 137 meters seem pretty far
You simplify ittoo much.
Gameplay is that i get hit from 200 meters and lose half my hp even if in rl that arrow would likely just bounce?. Even reality makes more sense in a "gameplay" way of thinking. If not, just tell me how this improves it?. How this makes it balanced?. That guy can hit me from 200 meters for loads of damage that is just plain silly, at the same time i have to get 1 meter from him and slash him 2 or 3 times with my sword. Tell me how that mechanic improves gameplay please coz i dont see it.
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visitors can't see pics , please register or loginIm not sure i understand you. I will guess you mean "use a shield". And that is right. But you know, they actually improved armors so peopled didnt even need to carry an shield. Oh and, why they would force me to carry something that doesnt makes really sense?. It makes no sense carrying a shield to stop arrows coming from 200 meters if you are wearing full armor, simple as that
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i've even started playing HA again recently in hope that people complain so it gets nerfed, the power in it is that it is almost completely risk free, yet yields as much score as playing other classes, if not even more.
which with other classes you will die much earlier on in the rounds because people can actually attack you.
Suure thats why you're playing it
Whatever you say, cool guy. You sure got me there. Nice grammar, by the way.
Nice response dildo guy, like a 40 year old man gives a fuck about grammar on a video game board website forum. If you took your time carefully write your response your a bigger cunt than i thought
Balancing classes doesn't work that well because, if it tries to balance teams with even amount of good skilled and bad skilled players whilst also doing banners, If it accounted in classes, the other two would'nt really work properly. Unfortunately.
Nice response dildo guy, like a 40 year old man gives a fuck about grammar on a video game board website forum. If you took your time carefully write your response your a bigger cunt than i thought
Lol, my horse archer grinding plan failed since even San and Tydeus agreed on the nerf request :D
Nebun was playing 19-1 today, if you re gonna do something, do it to all archers, not only HAs
I just restarted playing after 6 months sell my longbow and go HA after wasting looms on a horse and now you wanna nerf the build I chose again...EVERY TIME I START PLAYING THIS FUCKING MOD YOU NERF WHAT I PLAY. FUCK YOU.
I just restarted playing after 6 months sell my longbow and go HA after wasting looms on a horse and now you wanna nerf the build I chose again...EVERY TIME I START PLAYING THIS FUCKING MOD YOU NERF WHAT I PLAY. FUCK YOU.So, you were archer and thought it was a good idea to go HA now?
just nerf the class into oblivion and 90% of the player base won't even miss it. Problem solved. Those who do miss it are part of the problem.
The problem is you 2h and pole hero's that don't follow your ranged around on the map nad run of on your own. If you stayed with your archers other HA's wouldn't attack you. HA's aren't OP you melee are just stupid.Actually, you're stupid if you actually believe one word of the crap you wrote.
The problem is, you archer and ranged heroes don't follow your melee around on the map and instead camp in the back, out of reach of anyone. If you stayed within support range of your melee, HA would never be a problem for them. HA's aren't OP, you ranged need to cover melee/make sure they're not getting shot.
Melee's perspective.Indeed, when I play my archer, I follow the melee.
Melee's perspective.
Indeed, when I play my archer, I follow the melee.
Actually, you're stupid if you actually believe one word of the crap you wrote.
Archers, at least 75% of them, do NOT focus cav. No matter if HA or 1h or Lance. They do NOT shoot them cuz shooting down a horse doesn't give you those nice kills on the scoreboard for e-peen.
Archers shoot peasants, they shoot low armour guys and only, ONLY, when they are under cav pressure some, SOME NOT ALL, start actually shooting cav.
That is EU1 reality...
Indeed, when I play my archer, I follow the melee.
Indeed, when I play my archer, I follow the melee.
Its easier to follow melee if you're a hybrid archer. Then if the "friendly" melee decides they actually don't mind you dying you can at least defend yourself or run away.
Being close to the melee ball isn't as beneficial for pure archers. What's the point of a slow shooting, accurate bow if you the guy's right in front of you anyways and you have to constantly move.
Ok. I rant. HA on HEAVY (PLATED) HORSE ... NO!
Dont tell me teamplay. Dont tell me nerf this or that. Just dont allow HA on HEAVY HORSE.
Heavy Cav is dangerours (bumb, hard to kill). Skilled HA is dangerous becouse of ranged. Combinde its like devil rubs his cunt.
NO to HA on Heavy Cav. Even if high level. This must be stopped.
Rant over. (though good job on the sounds Fin :mrgreen:)
EDiT Poll reaction: yes / no / maybe ... just delete heavy cav for HA!
I think heavy cav is fine up till kataphractoi, its not the horse that's the problem. It's having heavy armor while riding a horse and not having accuracy deterrents.
You can't delete posts...gg forums or am I just noob.Paste cat gifs and pretend it was meant to be like this.
Paste cat gifs and pretend it was meant to be like this.
Just add a throwing item called a carrot that forces horses to ride over to it and eat it. NBD.:lol: the whole server will be throwing carrots and one horse will be going crazy :lol: :lol:
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For some reason my screenshot is a little smudgy, but I hope it is readable still. The top two players on the left team are horse archers. They have literally carried their team some rounds, outscore anyone else on their team and have a lot of kills. This is not an isolated occurrence, they have been playing horse archer for a while and they continously yield similar results. Granted, they seem fairly good at it and probably have very high level builds. Yet for a class that is so poorly implemented into the overall game design as it has no counters, consistently delays, and is literally zero fun to fight against, this level of strength is absolutely unacceptable. Also notice how their team lost 4 rounds, yet they have less deaths. Also, it was raining this entire round.
In my opinion horse archery should probably be plainly removed. If it wasn't for the historical precedent, no game designer would ever think of putting such a class in such a game. If horse archery has to stay, which is understandable, it should not be a higher than top tier class able to carry teams. Any amount of horse archers is detrimental to the experience of the larger playerbase, a high amount of horse archers is disastrous. The grumbles on the server speak for itself. There are already a number of threads created on the subject, one was created as I was typing this.
Here is one with some discussion on creative ways to nerf horse archery
http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/suggestions-for-nerfing-horse-archers/
I just hope to draw attention from Tydeus or San about this situation by going all General Discussion and I hope they understand something should be done. There are many, many ways to nerf HA, feel free to discuss them. I don't reallly care how, as long as a nerf is done. Here, have a useless poll.
Being good is optional when you can kite everything and when you have the advantage over pretty much every class. Even with a shield they will just shoot when you lower it to attack, and if you don't attack you will get bumped then shot when you're getting up. Or they will get behind the shield and you will have to cover multiple sides
Ranged don't even get an advantage over them because a moving target is harder to hit than something thats stationary most of the time
Meh, its a really badly implemented class. Its only there because of realism. If this were any other game no game designer would implement a class like HA and HX are
So we need even more ranged now just because of another OP ranged class? This game is getting ridiculous. 1 HA is worth several foot archers imo. They are more versatile, can kite forever and take a lot of shots before they go down. It takes more shots to down a horse than a ranged player
Pretty sure an arrow outranges a lance btw :D
Ok... go build a HA.... and charge 2 archers.
why would you charge 2 archers when you can snip them from far away ?!!
Then go do a STF 15-24 lancer and ride an eastern warhorse and kill all the HA's you want.
you will last less than 2 min if you are chasing HA as cav
The fact of the matter is...... there are some REALLY good HA's in the game and you want to nerf the class because of their skill....
for me its not about skill but about how annoying they are, being HA in this game is egoist,1 HA have a lot of fun while his targets cant enjoy the game.
Let's all just go and play WotR, no HAs there and no nerfings done to any of our beloved classes!visitors can't see pics , please register or login
(just trolling please don't teabag)
So we need even more ranged now just because of another OP ranged class? This game is getting ridiculous. 1 HA is worth several foot archers imo. They are more versatile, can kite forever and take a lot of shots before they go down. It takes more shots to down a horse than a ranged player
Pretty sure an arrow outranges a lance btw :D
I've never understood the constant whining to turn this game into melee only. [...] It [ranged] forces the teams to play smart. The problem is..... most people don't want to do that. They want to run in and kill which usually results in getting shot to pieces. Stop trying to nerf everything to the point we remove tactics from the game. Tactics defeat any class. If you guys want to melee.... just go to Na3/Eu3.
According to the forums 120 % of the playerbase is ranged anyway. With that much friendly ranged around, what is keeping you ( and pure melee players in general who are refusing to implement any form of ranged into their builds ) from just staying somewhere within the effective range of friendly ranged so enemy horse archers cannot attack you without putting themselves in danger of being shot back ? Of course horse ranged will chase after the individual which is not able/willing to stick to its team.
I am not really fond of horse archery myself and how it is implemented into the game. Changes that makes the class more susceptible to e.g. cav as a return for their ability to hard counter any melee inf sure is not out of the question. Still I am not sure what pure melee players, who refuse taking any form of ranged themselves AND also refuse to cooperate with their friendly ranged expect to happen. Should melees be able to shoot lazers out of their longswords/poleaxes when horse ranged is around or to groundslam their shields, creating a shockwave that dehorses any horse ranged within a distance of 50 meters ? Seriously, what is supposed to happen to make inf counter horse ranged ( appart from changing battlemode into some more sophisticated and objective based, which would be the right way to go IMO ) ?
Personally I can understand people who demand this class to be removed as the reasons for its existance are most probably only historically related. I am not the one to decide that however but I am pretty sure those in charge wont delete a class from the game. No matter how many nerfs HA/HX would get, as long as a horse will be faster than inf on foot and as long as horse ranged can shoot ( which both will unavoidably be the case ), horse ranged will hardcounter inf. Either you make up your mind and let your ranged help you or you deal with it.
In the end I think UnholyRolyPoly nailed it:
Those guys exploit their builds to run in and hit people in the back. What's so different between that and HA?
They don't spawnkill, they don't delay a the end of round and they are less anoying than ha.
...let your ranged help you...
As a HA, I haven't spawn killed ( even though retards staying in spawn leeching deserve it). I don't delay either since towards the end I need to help my team capture the flag and you're post is as annoying as your whining.
if a guy had plate armor it would take all of my arrows to kill them
:shock:
speedbonus+bodkins?
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macropus u lil shit
Serious business... there's only a handful of decent HA in this mod. The rest are garbage and only get lucky shots.
Try it yourself if you think its so easy, its not.
It's very easy lol. Riding aroundon a STF +3 yumi, +3 arrows. 70 something arrows, never run out. Kill horses, foot archers and then at the end of the round all the heavy armoured guys that are wounded. Can't even imagine how OP it'd be with tartar/bodkins!
Don't use a yumi and try again. it won't be so easy....
Adalwulf, we are discussing good horse archers so please get the fuck out.
Basically the game theory behind horse archers is optimized for playing extremely shrewdly. Being the last one left is essentially an unintended design choice.
we are not byz gayvoth!
you are mad for two days....sad!
I fixed it.
to all ranged units: this should be the way what kind of enemies to focus first as ranged:
1.horse archers / horse xbowsPeasants (they are their primary target b'coz EZ kill)
2.cavalryArchers/xbow
3.archers / xbowsAll Cavalry & infantry
my bolts and iberian mace never hold for byz when they´re on the enemy team :twisted:
the only enemies I don´t shoot are people who randomly run around and hug people :>
I don´t know if ha or hx are too strong (currently trying hx, it´s harder than I thought...), but what I´ve experienced is that ranged units barely focus them
to all ranged units: this should be the way what kind of enemies to focus first as ranged:
1. horse archers / horse xbows
2. cavalry
3. archers / xbows
4. throwers / mauls
5. other infantry
6. peasants (they´re not your no1 target, greedy bastards :D )
Then give bonus for focusing other characters with PD/xbow wpf. Got more interest at focusing peasants than shooting tincans already, so why should I waste my arrows to shoot some targets that dodge everything and can survive 4 shots ?
What about winning the round and get x5 ?Nein.
Nein.
Das ist ein a shit bonus m8. U nub ! L 2 P ! :)
to all ranged units: this should be the way what kind of enemies to focus first as ranged:
1. horse archers / horse xbows
2. cavalry
3. archers / xbows
4. throwers / mauls
5. other infantry
6. peasants (they´re not your no1 target, greedy bastards :D )
It's very easy lol. Riding aroundon a STF +3 yumi, +3 arrows. 70 something arrows, never run out. Kill horses, foot archers and then at the end of the round all the heavy armoured guys that are wounded. Can't even imagine how OP it'd be with tartar/bodkins!
This. To be honest I think HA wouldn't be much to worry about if foot-ranged would actually perform their role as supplementary soldiers. They should be assisting their melee infantry by helping kill the biggest threat. If that's the HA, it's not hard to do so. If it's picking off that group of 7 archers at the top of the hill, that's what they should be doing. Instead, too many (particularly the not-very-great) ranged characters just shoot constantly into the melee battles and are trying to get the most points they can to get that valor mark. The good archers are the ones that shoot me when I'm on my Ranged char.
Actually, this post made me think of a new suggestion (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/remove-valor-62565/).
melee infantry need to help protect their foot ranged then, most are too worried about mindlessly W-keying til they reach the enemy.
to all ranged units: this should be the way what kind of enemies to focus first as ranged:
1. horse archers / horse xbows
2. cavalry
3. archers / xbows
4. throwers / mauls
5. other infantry
6. peasants (they´re not your no1 target, greedy bastards :D )
Then give bonus for focusing other characters with PD/xbow wpf. Got more interest at focusing peasants than shooting tincans already, so why should I waste my arrows to shoot some targets that dodge everything and can survive 4 shots ?horses can´t dodge bolts that easily, and for the archers: you gotta be sneaky.
Not really, It's all situational. If there is a bad HA and a good infatry player alive, both easy shots I know who i'm shooting at.of course, there are exceptions! If theres still a bad horse archer alife and f.e. Saxon, I´d try my best to get Saxon down, cause he´s cutting through my team like butter
But I do it like that already. :3have a cookie, Macbeth :]
Damn reading first 4 pages of the topic made me install the game again, see you in the evening fellas.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
HA master race!
At equal skill level, I think an HT with medium to medium-heavy armor (especially helmet) and horse can beat an HA. HT can just outDPS then body/headshot when he dehorses him. HT is a pretty fun HA hunter that isn't *as* aggravating for melee to deal with.
So people should go ranged cav to counter ranged cav? This game is just going to get worse and worseIt's what i desperately tried to explain to Fin.
We need more ranged cav. Only way to open blind eyes.It's exactly the Fin's point of view. :D
This is how I felt as a foot archer and exactly why I went for HA. 90% of melee infantry don't give 2 shits about helping their ranged help them. They just basically want EU3 in EU1. You guys wanted us archers to not be able to run away so you added weight to our arrows that makes us unable to run from you and now you guys don't even help protect us. So now that there are more HA's around you come back on the forums and whine because you can't "catch" them and they can survive your 2h spam. The problem isn't HA's or archery, it's melee players fault 100% that they refuse to use team play and tactics to counter a threat. GG crpg.
Or how about shooting their horses?
Yes teamwork and tactics is always very important regardless of class.'
I spend a lot of time standing in a shield wall, or I have an anti cav weapon near ranged. I think to myself, why don't I just play ranged as well? At least then i'm actually playing a game. I don't have to worry about such things as tactics and teamwork then either. I have uber teamwork/ tactic number 1 - stand on a roof or a hill with other left clickers. Tactic 2 - kite then shoot. Tactic 3 - beat melee with melee.
You have to think about why people join a cRPG server. Do they join just to win rounds? The best way to win a round shouldn't involve not playing your class. People don't necessarily want to stand around all day babysitting ranged because they have no awareness. You mostly need protection from cav, and most of the time you can get up where they can't reach you anyway. Or how about shooting their horses rather than melee?
Khergit were always unofficially banned on every populated/popular native battle server, practically even before release at beta. Now think really, really hard on why that might be. You fucking stupid cunts.
Worthless HA sadist whining about infantry chasing "easy kills", please uninstall the game and forget it exists you moronic hypocrite.
I bet you wouldn't complain if a 2h/1hShield/Polearm where at the top...Indeed, if I see melee players carrying their team I do my utmost best to hurt their team by trying to take them out. Melee players are quite easily killed if they get focused, by both melee and ranged. I have been a priority target for enemy ranged a few times and it makes it hard to stay alive, usually I have to hide and my ability to influence the round gets greatly diminished. If a melee players is at the top of the scoreboard, that means he got in the face of his enemies and killed them. He put himself in about as much danger as the people he is trying to kill, with his smarts and his skills making him come out on top repeatedly.
All this is is that infantry can't catch someone on a horse.
It's just a pure rage poll imo.
They're not strong at all they take about 4-5 arrows to kill an archer alone, nevermind you lot with your 8 IF or whatever you carry around with you. Plus your heavier armours.
Simple fact is, you can't kill them because they can run away from you on horseback. You won't be happy until you can catch them and kill them because they can't fight back with a proper weapon.
Same old infantry, want everything easy for them to kill.
You also gotta take into account actual medieval tactics into the whole equation. Sure, a bunch of infantrymen going for a beeline after a horsearcher are gonna get shot up, but unmounted archers can easily pick them off provided they have a good position and/or protection from infantry. The mongols dominated the battlefield because nobody could catch up to them. Then people realized they could force the horse archer to become a sitting duck by harassing them with foot archers that were impossible to fire upon due to pikemen and/or shielded infantry. Foot archers can hit horse archers at a much greater range, and the horse archer could not approach the archer due to defensive, stationary infantry.
I agree a nerf needs to be put in place, but I think some players are getting mad because their tactics against foot archers don't work on mounted archers due to their mobility.
I think the range of archery on a horse needs to be reduced, and mobility on horseback too, along with perhaps adding a decrease to speed/maneuv. on horseback depending on the equipment load of the rider.
Afaik no one ever really beat the mongols. Remember, they could always choose where to do battle, just like in c-rpg. They returned home by themselves when their leader died. The only battle I could dig up where they were properly beaten were by Mamluks in the middle east were they tricked the mongol force into the mountains and ambushed them..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
A bug giving certain builds 200-400 wpf (then capped to their own wpf after penalties) that was there for the last 3 years was fixed. Perhaps the other past nerfs only masked this inconsistency that was made more apparent ever since the wpf change last year.
Things that counter HA.
1. Teamwork
2. Other HA
3. Light cav
4. Archers
5. Xbow
6. Situational awareness
7. Having a shield
I don't know what EU servers are like, but we have some highly skilled HA on NA1. However, whenever I play archer my teammates and I make it a priority to "bring them down." Rarely do they see the end of the round, and if they do? Guess what, devs already nerfed HA's ability to delay earlier this year by speeding up flag spawn times.
I realize it sucks fighting against some classes. Sometimes you're on a roll and some bullshit thrower, hoplite, crushthrough weapon, bumpslash, hiltslash, bullshit kills you and you get angry. "This is unjust!" You think. "He killed me so easily, and I'd been fighting so manfully and skillfully."
But to me, this is all part of the masochistically fun learning experience that is C-RPG. The fun of it, for me, isn't trolling the forums demanding a nerf to this or that, but in thinking up new and creative ways to overcome the various challenges the game has to offer. In doing so, you become stronger, smarter, more flexible, and better at communicating w/ your comrades.
That being said, sometimes a nerf is absolutely necessary, but I would consider the faster flag spawning and increased riding difficulties to be sufficient for now.
A bug giving certain builds 200-400 wpf (then capped to their own wpf after penalties) that was there for the last 3 years was fixed. Perhaps the other past nerfs only masked this inconsistency that was made more apparent ever since the wpf change last year.
The whole "HAs deal damage without infantry being able to fight back" issue is overrated, there are several other cases when a player can't do anything against another player and dies, for example: an archer without melee weapon can't do anything against agi shielder, a pikeman can't do anything 1 vs 1 against another infantry etc.
I tried making the most agi lancer possible at 9-33 to catch HA. It was decent at it, but not great enough, since the squishiness of the build demanded few mistakes against a good one that kept his distance. It was an insane bumping machine against infantry, though.
I found that using an HT in medium armor + medium horse or heavier was much better at actually decimating HA as long as I wasn't being targeted by too many other people at the same time.
You also gotta take into account actual medieval tactics into the whole equation. Sure, a bunch of infantrymen going for a beeline after a horsearcher are gonna get shot up, but unmounted archers can easily pick them off provided they have a good position and/or protection from infantry. The mongols dominated the battlefield because nobody could catch up to them. Then people realized they could force the horse archer to become a sitting duck by harassing them with foot archers that were impossible to fire upon due to pikemen and/or shielded infantry. Foot archers can hit horse archers at a much greater range, and the horse archer could not approach the archer due to defensive, stationary infantry.
Did you spectate and check so that they no one on the other team fed them score at the end of the round? its become a thing apparently for clanmates to never attack eachother during battles except in the end where one stands still and feeds valour to the other. Im looking at you barabe scum, i saw you all playing HA's and not shooting a single shot at eachother even when you got switched so you had like 3 HA's on each team. Lazy ass admins didnt do shit to ban when teamworking across teams either.
Seriously, teamworking when on different teams should not be allowed.
Are Byzantium the only clan where if we spot a clanmate on the other team everybody gets a raging bloodlust to murder him?
Are Byzantium the only clan where if we spot a clanmate on the other team everybody gets a raging bloodlust to murder him?
Are Byzantium the only clan where if we spot a clanmate on the other team everybody gets a raging bloodlust to murder him?I tend to ignore every other enemy around me when I see a fellow Black on the battlefield. Most of the times I don't even make it to my target but it's totally worth it... :D
But back on topic: Just remove ranged cav, anyone who complains: permaban. There, fixed, community is richer in two ways: Everyone has more fun and the annoying dickheads are banned. I provide this solution free of charge, you are all welcome.
Also Mongol and Turkish composite bows, fired from horseback, shot farther and with more force, while still being easier and faster to use, than an English Longbow and similar weapons.
Are Byzantium the only clan where if we spot a clanmate on the other team everybody gets a raging bloodlust to murder him?As Merc, if the last enemy is a Merc, i'll let him fight to the death against my allies.
Ah... the Mary Rose... Shitting on 'classic English exaggerating their bow' theorists since that wreck was discovered...
I remember back when it was scientifically impossible to pull a bow of the dimensions described in the British sources, until they found the bows in Mary Rose and more importantly the skeletons of the men who pulled them, warped and distorted gorillas. Then suddenly it wasnt impossible.
And where's the myth come from that only British had yew technology xD
Not just in Britain, but the Frence forces to counter the longbow had to rely on crossbows and also trained a few longbowmen of their own but never got the mass required to be an effective counter. Surely they would have been looking for a viable alternative that didnt require training since the age of 7.French forces used arbalest because it's require much less training than a longbow, and because feudal France army was clearly a massive amount of peasants.
I dont attack my clanmates on opposite team, if there are other targets for me or them.
Course, if we meet alone in an alley, or its end of round and we still alive, then its time to get it on. And I wouldn't LET them win, gonna try to end them. Would never feed them valour...
But I will admit that before now I have tripped an archer teammate over with a little nudge when hes aiming at my friends back... What? he's my friend, fight the guy and kill him, or I will fight him and try to kill him once you are dead, but dont shoot a man in the back.
But back on topic: Just remove ranged cav, anyone who complains: permaban. There, fixed, community is richer in two ways: Everyone has more fun and the annoying dickheads are banned. I provide this solution free of charge, you are all welcome.
Keeping HA will let some players in our mod. (great they don't leave ! .... :? )
Removing ranged cav completely is a shit idea aswell, mod is about variety and theres probably a decent chunk wanting to play mongol horse archer from time to time, some who only want to play it. Removing the entire class could result in people quitting the mod and that is never a good thing with a dying mod anyways.
French forces used arbalest because it's require much less training than a longbow, and because feudal France army was clearly a massive amount of peasants.
The lords were afraid to teach to peasants how to fight. (military training)
French forces used arbalest because it's require much less training than a longbow, and because feudal France army was clearly a massive amount of peasants.
The lords were afraid to teach to peasants how to fight. (military training)
Weren't the French medieval armies actually known for not conscribing peasants most of the time? As far as I know in France the nobelty had the opinion that it's better to not have the peasants being armed. If you consider the French revolution, they were right in the end :mrgreen:Yes it's what i'm saying, they had no military training. And they never own their weapons like arbalest.
Are Byzantium the only clan where if we spot a clanmate on the other team everybody gets a raging bloodlust to murder him?
Thats people limiting themselves when they have no reason to. Theres no reason for an archer not to take a Broad Short Sword at least, and even with a hammer they can block indefinately until they get a chance to kite. A pike is at a disadvantage 1v1, but he can also have a backup sidearm or kick/nudge until they can kite a bit. HA's only put themselves at risk when they choose to. Melee on the other hand have nothing to do but hide or hold up a shield and hope the HA doesn't go behind you or bump :DOkay, I have respeced from HA back to melee and therefore I now agree with you (no bias), nerf horse archers.
Do you think melee are pointlessly limiting themselves by not taking a ranged weapon? Maybe, but thats a fault of the game balance imo - I don't think this game should be all about ranged gameplay when we have such a good melee system. I'd sooner play any other FPS in my game library than play this to shoot people, especially if I were shooting people who want to play for the melee gameplay
I just read this... and I had to lol. I'm not a britmy old friend, I don't consider any culture inherantly better than another either but: That's bullshit Smoothrich. Despite what hollywood or w/e has made you believe, the longbow used by the english that gained so much fame during the 100-years war period and continued to be used throughout Tudor times were:The warbow can indeed be used from horseback, but not with the same deadly power and speed as it would have on foot. The main advantage of using a really compact bow as the Tartars and Mongols did was that you could easily put your bow away to switch weapons, not only that but also would you be able to move your bow over the horse's neck whilst shooting, which means you have an extra edge over the use of a warbow from horseback because the turn radius of your bow is greater. Another thing which would in my oppinion is really weird about shooting a warbow from horseback is the following: When I shoot a longbow which is at the top end of the draw weight I can handle, yes I do this because I practice archery for the gigs,(and no not those 180lbs ones lol) all the muscle groups in my upper body are helping me to pull that string back, and to do that properly I have to stand very stable on the ground to shoot the thing, so how could one do that from the back of a horse? of course you could stand up in the stirups but I can't imagine being able to stand as steady in those. Anyhow, I guess we'll never really know, because we don't breed those darn gorillas anymore.
NOT a selfbow: it is a natural laminate, so a compound bow, with sapwood resisting tension on the back and heartwood resisting compression in the belly. Yew was ideal for this, to the point where early conservationists complained about deforestation of yew trees.
NOT a flatbow: crosssection of a longbow/warbow will show it is a D shape.
NOT a straightbow: THIS is the biggest misconception you seem to be under, since many portrayals, especially in movies, show unstrung longbows to look a bit like a stave: Longbows were recurve bows. Very many manuscripts from medieval era show this. Unfortunatly, no medieval bows from england excist, of any shape, but hundreds of ones from the Mary Rose, flagship of Henry VIII, were recovered when the ship was raised, and they are ALL recurve bows.
Longbows, or warbows as they were also called, were primarily used on foot, of course, but when the english marched to france for war they took mounted archers with them. These guys would dismount and form up for pitched battles, because military archery is a question of volume of arrows, not the skirmish warfare of the steppe tribes, but there are times when they had to ride and shoot: There is nothing stopping the use of a longbow on horseback. When the English had to cross Somme, at the ford at Blangetac, the mounted archers went first, firing from horseback at the Picardy militiamen on the other side, to cover the foot archers and knights behind(This is documented, I forget the name of the manuscript but it is a French manuscript describing the events, not some britmy old friend propoganda, you could probably find it if you spoke french and check the National Library's website (w/e the French call their national Library)). This was 2 days before the battle of Crecy.
SO we have a reflex, compound bow, that CAN be used from horseback, can shoot between 15 and 20 arrows per minute, and draw weights between 90 pounds (women and children) to the 160-200 pound range.
SO tell me again how the Mongol and Turkish bows of the same design but lesser draw weight were shooting further with more force?
Because it doesn't make sense on any level, to me.
I just read this... and I had to lol. I'm not a britmy old friend, I don't consider any culture inherantly better than another either but: That's bullshit Smoothrich. Despite what hollywood or w/e has made you believe, the longbow used by the english that gained so much fame during the 100-years war period and continued to be used throughout Tudor times were:
NOT a selfbow: it is a natural laminate, so a compound bow, with sapwood resisting tension on the back and heartwood resisting compression in the belly. Yew was ideal for this, to the point where early conservationists complained about deforestation of yew trees.
NOT a flatbow: crosssection of a longbow/warbow will show it is a D shape.
NOT a straightbow: THIS is the biggest misconception you seem to be under, since many portrayals, especially in movies, show unstrung longbows to look a bit like a stave: Longbows were recurve bows. Very many manuscripts from medieval era show this. Unfortunatly, no medieval bows from england excist, of any shape, but hundreds of ones from the Mary Rose, flagship of Henry VIII, were recovered when the ship was raised, and they are ALL recurve bows.
Longbows, or warbows as they were also called, were primarily used on foot, of course, but when the english marched to france for war they took mounted archers with them. These guys would dismount and form up for pitched battles, because military archery is a question of volume of arrows, not the skirmish warfare of the steppe tribes, but there are times when they had to ride and shoot: There is nothing stopping the use of a longbow on horseback. When the English had to cross Somme, at the ford at Blangetac, the mounted archers went first, firing from horseback at the Picardy militiamen on the other side, to cover the foot archers and knights behind(This is documented, I forget the name of the manuscript but it is a French manuscript describing the events, not some britmy old friend propoganda, you could probably find it if you spoke french and check the National Library's website (w/e the French call their national Library)). This was 2 days before the battle of Crecy.
SO we have a reflex, compound bow, that CAN be used from horseback, can shoot between 15 and 20 arrows per minute, and draw weights between 90 pounds (women and children) to the 160-200 pound range.
SO tell me again how the Mongol and Turkish bows of the same design but lesser draw weight were shooting further with more force?
Because it doesn't make sense on any level, to me.
lol, fucking anglophile. Not surprising that Europeans have such an insular, ignorant view of history.. perhaps read a history book not written by some 19th century white male racist imperialist shitlord?
NOT a selfbow: it is a natural laminate, so a compound bow, with sapwood resisting tension on the back and heartwood resisting compression in the belly.A selfbow is a bow made from a single piece of wood. The English longbow is made from a single piece of wood. You might call it a "natural composite bow" to illustrate the heartwood/sapwood interaction, but it remains a selfbow made from a single piece of wood. By the way, this is what a compound bow looks like
NOT a straightbow: THIS is the biggest misconception you seem to be under, since many portrayals, especially in movies, show unstrung longbows to look a bit like a stave: Longbows were recurve bows. Very many manuscripts from medieval era show this. Unfortunatly, no medieval bows from england excist, of any shape, but hundreds of ones from the Mary Rose, flagship of Henry VIII, were recovered when the ship was raised, and they are ALL recurve bows.Uh, you mean the Mary Rose longbows like these:
There is nothing stopping the use of a longbow on horseback. When the English had to cross Somme, at the ford at Blangetac, the mounted archers went first, firing from horseback at the Picardy militiamen on the other side, to cover the foot archers and knights behind(This is documented, I forget the name of the manuscript but it is a French manuscript describing the events, not some britmy old friend propoganda, you could probably find it if you spoke french and check the National Library's website (w/e the French call their national Library)).The average length of a Mary Rose longbow was 6 and a half feet. You're saying that you don't see why it wouldn't be viable to use a ~150 pound draw, 6.5 foot tall bow on horseback? Do you not understand basic body mechanics? The only "evidence" for English horse archery at Blanchetaque I've seen is a single artist's rendition of the battle. In the same picture the horse archer is wearing full plate, holding the bow fully drawn on the right side of his horse with his left hand (which we all know is impossible from playing M&B), and charging headfirst into a line of French knights.
SO we have a reflex, compound bow, that CAN be used from horseback, can shoot between 15 and 20 arrows per minute, and draw weights between 90 pounds (women and children) to the 160-200 pound range.The only thing you got right here are the draw weights.
SO tell me again how the Mongol and Turkish bows of the same design but lesser draw weight were shooting further with more force?
it doesn't make sense on any level, to me.I suspect that's true for many topics.
arrow size/weight/head-shape.
Herezy, it's the Ius primae noctis. We all know it from the movie braveheart :mrgreen:Ah ? it's in braveheart ? lol i don't remember :)
And one of the biggest misconceptions, and i blame films like LOTR and games like Mount & Blade[...]Fcking Legolas, u besterd stop killing Uruks & Orcs.
And one of the biggest misconceptions, and i blame films like LOTR and games like Mount & Blade, is that people used bows for 'sniping' or even aimed at a single target.
You stand in a line, and you fire as many arrows as you can. We're talking volleys not elven or COD bullshit. With the arrows planted in the ground next to you (not over the shoulder like some my old friendgy elf) and not taking care to aim at a specific target, or see if your shot takes them, that rate of fire is utterly reasonable. The figure was derived from experimental archaeology and testing using high poundage bows, not just blind faith in historical 'Rule Brittania' type texts.
Your concept of 'usefulness' appears to be totally missing the point of a volley, you're not a sniper in any modern sense, you're not aiming for the jugular from 200 yards and you certainly arent any use to your army as a lone archer - that's why the fact the French had longbowmen is rarely mentioned, there were never enough to make an impact. The biggest downside of this style was the historical problem of running out of damn arrows very soon into the battle, particularly when fighting overseas.
Mongol/Turkish bow fanboyism is different from Longbow fanboyism how exactly? That just seems like full-on weaboo worship, ''it's from the east so it's better''.
A selfbow is a bow made from a single piece of wood. The English longbow is made from a single piece of wood. You might call it a "natural composite bow" to illustrate the heartwood/sapwood interaction, but it remains a selfbow made from a single piece of wood. By the way, this is what a compound bow looks likeUh, you mean the Mary Rose longbows like these:(click to show/hide)Those aren't recurves, bro. They're mostly straight and some are slightly curved in the wrong direction (for an unstrung recurve bow) -from heavy use probably.(click to show/hide)
Here's a video of a dude using a 170 lb draw weight Mary Rose type longbow. Notice how the string never lies along the the tips of the bow, i.e. it's not a recurve.
The average length of a Mary Rose longbow was 6 and a half feet. You're saying that you don't see why it wouldn't be viable to use a ~150 pound draw, 6.5 foot tall bow on horseback? Do you not understand basic body mechanics? The only "evidence" for English horse archery at Blanchetaque I've seen is a single artist's rendition of the battle. In the same picture the horse archer is wearing full plate, holding the bow fully drawn on the right side of his horse with his left hand (which we all know is impossible from playing M&B), and charging headfirst into a line of French knights.The only thing you got right here are the draw weights.(click to show/hide)
Reflex bow, notice how it curls into a C-shape unstrung.
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Compound bow.
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15-20 arrows per minute is total bullshit. 8 is around the upper limit for usefulness on a high poundage bow. Anything higher and you simply won't be able to fully draw or aim. Longbows don't turn you into Legolas.
1) Nobody said they can shoot farther and with more force with lower draw weight. The post you replied to didn't mention draw weight.
2) They aren't of the same design. Are you fucking blind, guy? If you think a Mongol or Turkish reflex, recurve bow is of the same design as an English longbow, you're beyond help.
3) Mongol/Turkish bows were capable of ranges and "force" similar to English longbows because they could have similar draw weights. The reason a much smaller bow was capable of similar draw weights to a larger bow is that they used more efficient materials and configurations (horn, sinew, different woods for different parts of the bow; recurved, reflexed).
There are also a lot of other variables that affect range and power beyond draw weight -arrow wobbling and vibration, smoothness of release, arrow size/weight/head-shape.
I suspect that's true for many topics.
Apparently longbow is to Europeans what katana is to weeaboos.
British people, famously lacking a sense of irony.Famously lacking the good sense to scrutinize their own country's historical 'achievements' or 'inventions'.
Also Blind Guy when you say compound bow you probably mean composite bow.
There's some speculation that the Amesbury archer buried near Stonehenge from the Bronze Age used a war bow of similar proportions, and the stable Strontium isotopes in his teeth and bones show he was born, raised, and spent most of his adult life in the Baltic. But that could just be wishful thinking as the bow doesn't survive, we only have his arrowheads, wrist-guard and deformed shoulders to suggest something more.
and since a longbow IS a recurve bow, I stopped reading, because as usual, it was evident that hollywood knowledge has won out over actual historic evidence.Even the historical Mary Rose bows clearly demonstrate that a longbow is not a recurve bow.
Apparently longbow is toEuropeansthe english what katana is to weeaboos.
Even the historical Mary Rose bows clearly demonstrate that a longbow is not a recurve bow.
There is the Joker we know!(click to show/hide)
There's a reason "Agincourt" is the only stickied thread on this subforum. Also americans saying that is a bit much. I've seen just as much pop culture bullshit myths about the longbow in american media and education.
remove dose annoyin unkillable bundle of stickss
Historical tests had the result that a sharpened longbow can cut through a katana.
No really, I am no expert in bows, and I think this topic was derailed heavily, but my personal opinion is that I agree that the longbow probably was the "strongest" bow.
Since I said I have no clue what I am talking about my opinion isn't really of any value, but hear me out anyway:
I guess we agree that for a long shot with a bow you need a lot of energy. The more energy, the longer the shot. That's obvious.
Now if we look at the bows, I think we all agree that the English/Welsh longbows required the highest drawing power of all bows. I mean just look at the backs of the people who used them! And I think it is relatively safe to say that the average Briton was a bit taller and bigger than the average Turk/Arab, I think what is true nowadays wasn't different back then.
I also think it is nice to know with which techniqes the bows were made, be it recurve, composite or whatever. But in the end it is only determining how the bowyers dealt with the materials they had at their disposal. To stick with a similar example: you can lift an object with a wind either directly or by the use of a pulley. One way (with the pulley) feels easier than the other, because you don't have to put that much energy directly into lifting the object, it's rather spent in the "endurance" which you need to turn the wind a few times more than when lifting the object directly. I think it's "maximum power" vs. "endurance power". It's at least how it's said in German, I couldn't find a translation. BUT: once both objects are lifted they both have the same amount of power stored. So in the end I don't think that anything but the final draw weight matters. Every bow offers a certain resistance, and you have to overcome it to put energy into the arrow. The more resistance you have, the more energy can you put into the arrow. And it doesn't matter how that resistance is created, be it the material or the shape or both, in the end it all boils down to how much force you need to pull the string, since for every historic bow it has been done the same way. If there had been a compound bow I already wouldn't be so sure in my theory, since I can't really estimate the shift of power needed, but I think since the drawing length is limited a compound bow would be weaker than a normal bow of the same size, right?
So bottom line is: the Longbow had the higher drawing weight, which means it puts more energy into the arrow.
But here is the point: I think the arrow kicks in, too! My bet is that the arrows for longbows were much longer, thicker and thus heavier than those of the Turk bows. And not only proportionally, but even heavier than that! In Europe I think you had to deal much more with (plate-)armour than in the middle east, and the fighting was different in general. So the heavier arrows lead to the longbow perhaps not having the range of the Turk bow, but his arrows pack a much meaner punch than those of the Turk bow!
I think we can compare it with modern calibers a bit. The Turk bow is a 9mm gun, whereas the longbow is a .45 ACP. While the 9mm has a good range of about 200m or even more, the .45 ACP is so slow, it's subsonic ammunition by default! (In most cases, there is always some special cartridge). With tracer ammunition I could fire my gun and then watch the bullet travel to the target... But heaven forbid you get hit by a .45!
The .45 has a much bigger cartridge than the 9mm, but due to the heavier projectile it's slower and thus has the shorter reach. Still it hits much heavier than the 9mm.
And the same thing happens with the longbow. It was designed to be able to punch through plate armour on short range with the right tip, something which a man with a melee weapon often fails! And of course it was designed to engage the enemy as soon as possible, so they also tried to get the range as high as possible, but it was only secondary to the armour piercing aspect.
The Turk bow on the other hand had the main purpose of having the longest reach possible. In the middle east warfare was different than in Europe, it was more mobile, and they relied much more on ranged fighting than on melee, and in the end a lower percentage of the Saracen troops was armoured compared to European troops, and the armour usually was a bit weaker, as far as I know. (I know about the fact that they often wore cloth over their armour so the Europeans thought their majority was unarmoured, which is wrong). So the main objective was to be able to shoot before the enemy could shoot, and be it only for hitting their usually unarmoured horses first, depriving them of their mobility.
But since I think that in a direct fight of lightly armoured Muslims against heavily armoured Europeans the longer reach of the Turk bow would be negated by the lower stopping power, whereas the longbow has only slightly lower reach but is more deadly, I think the longbow is the more useful tool in general. Edit: but only because I had to consider the armours of the possible enemies, too.
Pretty much none of this is remotely accurate, fyi. In fact, it is mostly the opposite of all historical records and modern scientific testing.
My favourite part was when that black guys went 'Hu Hu Hu' and walked backwards into the shadows and went invisible apart from his big white teeth and eyes.
Classy stuff.
Pretty much none of this is remotely accurate, fyi. In fact, it is mostly the opposite of all historical records and modern scientific testing.
If you ever find yourself wondering what would Benji do? He'd say 'Moar longbows!'.
I can fly.
I am a test driver for Porsche.
I know who killed JFK.
Fucking pure couch builds.
Koaklie needs to '-' more when he's informed how wet he gets over eastern bows, cos it shows what a weaboo he is
Holy shit, we have an expert in the room.
He knows SCIENCE. I hope he doesnt make our minds explode by naming a single example.
Play siege people. The rare HA on siege is nothing more than a comical distraction.
Siege is nice for levelling and stuff but its not Battle, bro.
Siege is for people that are after "epic" moments; epic clashes on top of ladders/flag, epic deaths (get a mid-air kill moments before gravity death, for instance), epic kills (nudging people off ledges mostly). No one gives a shit if they die, so people take crazy risks going for that epic moment. And you don't have to spin your camera around nonstop; you know where the enemy is, and they aren't riding a Charger up your ass.
90% of battle rounds are decided by the autobalancer, and you just have to run around with the clump as the round approaches its inevitable outcome. The only epic moments occur in the rare rounds where the last few survivors are well-matched. I do well on battle, but it just feels dull compared to siege at its best.
Siege is for people that are after "epic" moments; epic clashes on top of ladders/flag, epic deaths (get a mid-air kill moments before gravity death, for instance), epic kills (nudging people off ledges mostly). No one gives a shit if they die, so people take crazy risks going for that epic moment. And you don't have to spin your camera around nonstop; you know where the enemy is, and they aren't riding a Charger up your ass.
90% of battle rounds are decided by the autobalancer, and you just have to run around with the clump as the round approaches its inevitable outcome. The only epic moments occur in the rare rounds where the last few survivors are well-matched. I do well on battle, but it just feels dull compared to siege at its best.
Siege is for people that are after "epic" moments; epic clashes on top of ladders/flag, epic deaths (get a mid-air kill moments before gravity death, for instance), epic kills (nudging people off ledges mostly). No one gives a shit if they die, so people take crazy risks going for that epic moment. And you don't have to spin your camera around nonstop; you know where the enemy is, and they aren't riding a Charger up your ass.
90% of battle rounds are decided by the autobalancer, and you just have to run around with the clump as the round approaches its inevitable outcome. The only epic moments occur in the rare rounds where the last few survivors are well-matched. I do well on battle, but it just feels dull compared to siege at its best.
yeeah, those epic moments when youre on the defending team and your people defend the walls but not the flag
every. single. round.
Siege defense is for valor hunting, not flag defending. /Duhhmmm true tue
remove shield skill requirement i thnk it would reduce the whine about all ranged in crpg.
Hardly uncounterable.
You can see time and time again how - especially xbow - ranged shoots down a HA or at least the horse.
When at the end of the round only melee is left on one side and the other is a HA... well, start dancing at the flag.
Let's be honest, HAs are a pain in the ass but they are hardly match winning nor team carrying.
And most HA nowadays play a different style than they used to. Especially at round end, most tend to stick closer to the enemy team. Only a few refuse to not act like delaying pricks.
Prpavi for example nearly always dismounts when last. Hate_More isn't as bad as he used to be at round end.
Nonetheless, there are still assholes like Smurf_niluK who don't. Annoying but bareable... Let the flag handle him and his fellow pricks... or admins if online.
If being "asshole" and "annoying" and "prick" will save my x5 multiplier, than I will gladly be all of those and more if possible. Bring on the hate, feed me.If being an "asshole" and "annoying" and "prick" gives you joy in life, then you're a poor person.
If being an "asshole" and "annoying" and "prick" gives you joy in life, then you're a poor person.This is honestly the mentality that most of the long time horse archers proudly display in chat and on the forums.
This is honestly the mentality that most of the long time horse archers proudly display in chat and on the forums.
Some polearm users display similar characteristics
Polearm users do not display toxic behavior on purpose just to annoy other players.
Some polearm users display similar characteristics
To be fair here, Prpavi is a nice person among the HA :)
Seriously, most hate comes from people playing HA like douche bags and not necessarily from the class itself.
lol 4 slots for 1 stack of arrows and no weapon, you might as well delete the class
The amount of nuisance you can generate as mounted ranged is inordinately higher than with any other class.
Chasing other cav is a larger pain than it should be, though.
we're basically just the spock in a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock game
and everyone else is pissed cause they dont want to respec to spock :rolleyes:
When some infantrymy old friendhero goes 24-1 with his agi/str greatsword/shield build, nobody bats an eyelid.
Nothing changed..(click to show/hide)
How about those 2h / polearm/ Cav heroes? They always top the score board, do those required nerf too?
They can counter each other easily. While ranged is the only counter for HA. For me the problem is Yumi on horseback.
You are an archer correct?
Lancer with courser can take down HA by surprise and ranged can shoot down their horses
Charging HA with a courser will result in running away from HA without courser.
I don't think you realize how OP horse archers are when they are high level. Niluck reached the level 34 today, I don't even want to see his k/d, because I perfectly know he was completely over powered at level 33, delaying EVERY round he was alive to farm valour. This valour farming is too wrong to stay imo.
If you are going to talk about OP then i would say Lancer Cav and 1H Cav is definitely more OP than HA. HA have to shoot 4-7 times to kill someone in 55+ armor, 2 shot to people with low armor. Not to mention there are chances where HA can miss while Lance/1H Cav can kill someone in 1-3 hits and hit pretty hard.
Lance/1H Cav can carry the game pretty easily while HA not. Everyone knows how good Niluk is as a HA but can you name any other good HA beside him and zero_sat? There aren't that many HA who can top score nowadays. Every class and every weapon in cRPG can be OP in the right hands.
If you are going to talk about OP then i would say Lancer Cav and 1H Cav is definitely more OP than HA. HA have to shoot 4-7 times to kill someone in 55+ armor, 2 shot to people with low armor. Not to mention there are chances where HA can miss while Lance/1H Cav can kill someone in 1-3 hits and hit pretty hard.
There aren't that many HA who can top score nowadays.
I can, u mad?
all you guys bashing HA, just a simple questions, what class do you play and have you ever tried horse archery?
Zero risk playstyles make the game boring to play. To add insult to injury they are easy valour farmers too, just kiting and left clicking just outside range. Then add that they counter the only things that do damage to them, IE other ranged and the QQ is justified.So much overstating...
No skill, no risk, shitty counters
So much overstating...
Zero risk playstyles make the game boring to play. To add insult to injury they are easy valour farmers too, just kiting and left clicking just outside range. Then add that they counter the only things that do damage to them, IE other ranged and the QQ is justified.
No skill, no risk, shitty counters
So much QQ here that is ridiculous. Ok lets nerf HA because Niluk is skilled player.
I have solution. Lets have only "Niluk patch" - which will nerf him only.
Omg what a QQ community, what a crybabies.
And how much he and other HA delay round - 20 - 30 seconds, until flag is raised?
Every HA dismount if flag is bugged - so how much they delay - until flag is raised?
Ok. One more solution - if HA is last player from one team - autoban him from server.
There is nothing to see here, you can go back and play, all is fixed now ...
Niluk is just showing you all what's wrong with the mod, it's not the HA class, it's high levels, thousand+ hours of nolifing, loomed gear. All that experience, gold and stats give you too big of an advantage compared to regular lvl 30 builds.Well if among all the lvl 34 classes with loomed gear it is still HA that provides the biggest problems, then there's something wrong with the class, no?
Calm yourself pansies, I can assure you it's all my skill and has nothing to do with my fully loomed gear and level and hours of grinding to get on that level.There is your problem.
Now stop wasting your time on forum you melee plebs and get back on EU 1 and arrange a date with my Tatar beauties, there is 72 of them and they're all horny and looking for your face.
Actually Im not pissed at all. Just making some points here.
They are HA for fuck sake. I cant remember when I get killed from HA or HX (low damage), they can be just annoying - that's all.
And it is not true that they delay.
Niluk might get good scores but he does fuck all to help his team, i'd rather have an archer who focuses good players like chase teeth atze than niluk anyday. Couldn't give a shit if the archer only went 6-5 every map as long as he kills a good player each round.
The community some how thinks you need to top eu1 nearly every map to be considered a good player.
Just because HAs cannot kill your high level, high strength, armor crutching two-hander doesn't mean they can't kill other people. Also headshots are devastating from any ranged class and you're unlikely to surive more than two unless using a bevor. I rarely if ever die to a HA when playing two-hander, but try cavalry or medium light build for example and it's a whole different story.
Darmaster, making Yumi 2 slots changes nothing, other than the balance of the bows. And again, it's not the darn Yumi that's OP, it's the class.
^
And: removing valor for HA would at least remove the reward for playing that BS class... I mean if you're HA, it's quite easy to get valor and/or top the scoreboard - so why the hack shudd a HA help his team if he gets his X anyway? (And don't even start blubbering "nah it's very hard. Very skillful class." - cus it's not. I've got a stf HA, and it's easy (and boring) as fuck.)
HA is the Singleplayerclass of crpg.
Which is stupid.
I guess I'm the weirdo here.
It is just a picture on my avatar :)
I didn't play with my main more than a half a year. I play with my alt in Mail shirt with fur to lvl 31, then retire.
So I'm not high lvl - armor crutching - high strength ... play mostly xbow, archer, 1h, polearm - 18/21; 15/24 ....
Okay. I just know your main and that's a high level, high strength, heavy armor 2H hero (like mine is as well) and assumed that's what you meant when you said HAs cause you no problems. :)
8-) But I think also on my alt.
They really need couple of arrows to kill. I guess lots of players don't invest in IF.
I still think that limiting the ammo with special HA arrows down to 30 arrows max would solve the issues with the class... :3Sorry, it wouldn't solve anything. With a mobility HA has, its very easy to find an archer's corpse (or make it yourself using an alive archer) and loot the arrows.
Sorry, it wouldn't solve anything. With a mobility HA has, its very easy to find an archer's corpse (or make it yourself using an alive archer) and loot the arrows.Special HA arrows means obviously that he would need to pick up those special HA arrows. Good luck finding them on the ground between the regular arrows when they look the same :rolleyes:
The ammo has never been a problem for a HA and will never be.
I like a lot what San suggested. Melee cav can kill HA quite easily if taken by surprise, would be nice if they could chase them regularly with a fair chance to kill.
Special HA arrows means obviously that he would need to pick up those special HA arrows. Good luck finding them on the ground between the regular arrows when they look the same :rolleyes:
Utter bullcrap, make them so they can't walk while dismounted while you're at it :rolleyes:visitors can't see pics , please register or login
If you gonna gimp already a gimped class then just remove it, give free respec and have it over with because soon this thread will reach "Meanwhile in Ukraine" level of retardation.
thx for proving my pointMaybe you should read the thread before going full retard.
It is gimped, 0 ath, 0 ps, shit accuracy off horse, without a horse you can't do anything.With horse WE can't do anything. Good point.
It is gimped, 0 ath, 0 ps, shit accuracy off horse, without a horse you can't do anything. Add maps you can't play the class how is it not gimped?
Oh and get a shield.
About the nerfs suggested, the reason why I asked people did they ever play the class is because putting enought time in it you understand pros and cons and it's not that unbeatable and really easy to counter.
I play 15/24 Mounted Archer on a Donkey (unloomed), wearing some Lady Dress (unloomed), holding a Horn Bow (unloomed) and shooting Barbed Arrows (unloomed) and when I actually focus, I easily manage to get in the top 10 of the team, even have my piece of valor once in a while. And I am generally bad at this game.
That's why I would prefer a buff to the risky playstyle and add incentives against playing safely all the time. That's why I think a riding penalty per HA so it takes skill to be able to avoid everything consistently and returning the ranged speed bonus to reduce kiting damage and increase charge shot damage would be good changes that won't necessarily destroy HA, but weaken the safe playstyle and high levels.
That's why I would prefer a buff to the risky playstyle and add incentives against playing safely all the time. That's why I think a riding penalty per HA so it takes skill to be able to avoid everything consistently and returning the ranged speed bonus to reduce kiting damage and increase charge shot damage would be good changes that won't necessarily destroy HA, but weaken the safe playstyle and high levels.
San, stop been such a people person and focus on been a balancer who sees HA for a stupidly underpowered class against anything except horses and agi my old friends, the very class/playstyle they SHOULD be strong against.
I'd take a bandaid hotfix while you think about how to deal with it, but for now my interest in playing this game is pretty low
Oh but you see my interest in this mod is constantly rising, because finally I can annoy the fu*k out of melee macro 360° sppining stabs trough the wall ( I'm looking at you Teeth) max mouse sensitivity hashtag yolo 420 blaze it swag get rekt kuyak hero's.
For to long I've been suffering, bullied by your 2handed heroes...now it's time for vengeance, time for you to feel the anguish I felt by being stabbed, cut, smashed, crushed, poked.
And guess what...(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
AKA you aren't good enough to hack it in the real game so you try to spoil it for everyone else. I get it
Oh but you see my interest in this mod is constantly rising, because finally I can annoy the fu*k out of melee macro 360° sppining stabs trough the wall ( I'm looking at you Teeth) max mouse sensitivity hashtag yolo 420 blaze it swag get rekt kuyak hero's.
For to long I've been suffering, bullied by your 2handed heroes...now it's time for vengeance, time for you to feel the anguish I felt by being stabbed, cut, smashed, crushed, poked.
And guess what...(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
An idea that will definitely make all Cav less powerful as well as making HA become a very risky playstyle.
+ Dmg to horses when they bump someone.
At the very least, I would say that Horse archers and mounted crossbows shouldn't be able to release, load or draw their arrows/bolts whilst bumping someone.
CCleaner is niluk? wtf? oh god i can't breathe oh god help plea- i can't do this, i can't. this is something that needs to be told progressively, you can't burst in with "zhe QQleaner aka Smurf Niluk" it's not allowed. i thought he was dead :l
I don't really have a problem with HA's. With medium armor they already do small amount of damage (unless a headshot).
And finding a place to hide behind is ususally easy to find. The sole problem comes when the flags pop up and you have to get out of that cover x3
So in a map with cover for ranged (99% of the maps on EU1 highly favor hiding xbows and archers) a cat with a xbow and a shield is safe from horse archers. Well surely that means everyone else is as well. :rolleyes:
Offtopic: Someone show me in which topic I can complain about 1H+shield(+xbow) being OP. Cuz it is. QQ
Also cover FOR ranged also counts as cover AGAINST ranged. Just wanted to point that out.
CCleaner is dead, some prick replaced him. RIP.
I was thinking about what you said Grumbs, wow you're right, my only purpose is to destroy this mod. Camping enemy spawn so I can kill those poor souls who first time entered cRPG and make them GTX and uninstall the mod.
You can call me cRPG Illuminati, my intentions are to decrease the population until it's unplayable.
You got me there, now everyone knows my secret.
Why don't we just ban these guys and be done with it. Nobody would miss them.
Maybe not this guy precisely, as he seems way too self-conscious to not be doing this sarcastically.
Make EU_2 melee only. Melee only doesn't work in battle due to self-preservation bundling of sticks, but it would in siege mode.Siege is already the game mode where ranged have a more natural role and actually seem balanced enough, at least in my opinion. I don't think I've ever truly cursed ranged in siege, the reason I mostly play EU2 these days.
Make EU_2 melee only. Melee only doesn't work in battle due to self-preservation bundling of sticks, but it would in siege mode.Yes, making the server where nobody ever plays horse archer melee only, will definitely fix any horse archer issues. Thanks for contributing.
Yes, making the server where nobody ever plays horse archer melee only, will definitely fix any horse archer issues. Thanks for contributing.
have to agree too with corsair, teeth how could you possibly come with such a stupid idea?
Yes, making the server where nobody ever plays horse archer melee only, will definitely fix any horse archer issues. Thanks for contributing.
Siege is already the game mode where ranged have a more natural role and actually seem balanced enough, at least in my opinion. I don't think I've ever truly cursed ranged in siege, the reason I mostly play EU2 these days.
Yes, making the server where nobody ever plays horse archer melee only, will definitely fix any horse archer issues. Thanks for contributing.
It will fix horse archer issues because all the people willing to have a good time playing cRPG will play EU_2, and all the ranged (mounted or not) dickwads will play somewhere else. After some time there won't be any ranged remaining at all because none of them enjoy shooting at things that can shoot back.
After reading all this, there's one question coming into my mind, why do we keep horsearchers in this mod?
4. HAs pick on low armored troops which are usually new players, which is fucking discouraging for them and makes them leave
I think you didn't get the sarcasm.I think you didn't get the sarcasm.
I think you didn't get the sarcasm.
I think you didn't get the sarcasm.I think you didn't get the sarcasm.
1.Their playstyle is annoying to EVERYONE
2. They are reason of dying popularity
3. They are delaying, not helping team, playing solo style
4. HAs pick on low armored troops which are usually new players, which is fucking discouraging for them and makes them leave
5. Everyone who plays this class is usually a dickhead
Was that sarcasm?No, it's irony.
fuck yo combos
No, it's irony.
lol 36 pages :lol:tell me about that
Is there anyone here like me who does not care about this class ?
You have several possibilities to counter them, yet you still like more complain on forum.
After reading all this, there's one question coming into my mind, why do we keep horsearchers in this mod?
1. Their playstyle is annoying to EVERYONE
2. They are reason of dying popularity
3. They are delaying, not helping team, playing solo style
4. HAs pick on low armored troops which are usually new players, which is fucking discouraging for them and makes them leave
5. Everyone who plays this class is usually a dickhead
No harm would be done removing this class, or do you really want all this bother, in order to keep this mod a tiny bit more diverse and realistic?