Horse archery is too strong

[Prpavi]

I did follow the whole thread but thanks for the assumptions Holly Mother of reason

Remove the class I couldn't give a crap less

[Molly]

You show a lot of butthurt for not giving a crap but go on, keep posting non-constructive nonsense.

I play 15/24 Mounted Archer on a Donkey (unloomed), wearing some Lady Dress (unloomed), holding a Horn Bow (unloomed) and shooting Barbed Arrows (unloomed) and when I actually focus, I easily manage to get in the top 10 of the team, even have my piece of valor once in a while. And I am generally bad at this game.

But yes, mounted Archery is badly gimped so hard.

I have no issues with HAs the way they are right now. I never complained. But before they fiddle around with other classes to counter HA, making them OP in the process (once more) which leads to changes to more classes - the well known circle of balance in crpg - I rather have them do something simple for once and just LIMIT THE FREAKING AMMO.
I ride around with 36 arrows in my pocket and run out of ammo 1 out of 10 rounds... hardly game breaking for any HA. But might just be enough of a change to get the arrow spammers out of the picture and put HAs in their proper spot (wherever that might be).

[Prpavi]

So riding on a donkey at snail speed barely shooting 30 arrows per round you see yourself playing the class properly and knowing what's wrong with it?

[Molly]

Point is, even when using crappy items, it still does point wise way better than a lot of other "classes". That simple fact makes it hardly "gimped" and may make complains about it understandable.

But you playing it as high level character dedicated and probably fully loomed, stating several times it's the only class you would play since "melee is broken", makes you the better judge?

Raising upkeep would be silly - nobody cares about gold anymore. A damage nerf is equally silly since it ain't that high already. Buffing other classes to counter HA will just break more than fix - experience taught us that lesson.
Making HAs look out for their arrows, making them aim rather twice than just spam arrows, force them to aim for the head since hitting 5 times the same guy is a waste of precious ammo... well, I think it's worth the try.
Certainly a better suggestion than just to swoop in here, call everyone a retard and end with "just remove class, I dun care fgts"

[Prpavi]

It is gimped, 0 ath, 0 ps, shit accuracy off horse, without a horse you can't do anything. Add maps you can't play the class how is it not gimped?

I am not fully loomed, only my horse and armor and I'm playing this class for a year now, I'd say I know a thing or two about it.

[Prinz_Karl]

It is gimped, 0 ath, 0 ps, shit accuracy off horse, without a horse you can't do anything.

With horse WE can't do anything. Good point.

[Kafein]

It is gimped, 0 ath, 0 ps, shit accuracy off horse, without a horse you can't do anything. Add maps you can't play the class how is it not gimped?

Oh and get a shield.

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[Butan]

I agree with Prpavi on the matter that HA has already been nerfed (bow accuracy, wpf, effective wpf, heavy horse riding req) and that it doesnt require much more to be perfectly. balanced

Except very minor tweaks like reducing arrows per quiver, reducing accuracy bonus of the horse archery skill and balancing the "horseback able" bows to take into account the evasive power of horse archers (reducing draw speed, increasing slot usage), most of the suggested modifications could be replaced by "remove the class" and even horse archers would agree, so far its going.

Most of the complaints seems geared toward "end round annoyance" that doesnt take into account HA who fight using a risky playstyle and dies a lot.

[Prpavi]

I was being ironic about the shield but I'm glad to see you closely follow my posts :*

@Butan: I made suggestions where if you lose on flags you don't ger valor no matter how well you do, just because of all the HA delaying and valor farming. I wouldn't mind it at all.

About the nerfs suggested, the reason why I asked people did they ever play the class is because putting enought time in it you understand pros and cons and it's not that unbeatable and really easy to counter. Ask Macro, he fucking raped me with good gear and +3 Courser and that one inch polearm stab, I'm gone in one or two hits depending on the speed bonus, same with Royanss and his gocart Arabian and Arab cav sword, one hit all day baby. Same goes for good archers and arbalesters, I don't require more than one or two hits. At the same time i need many arrows to kill a person, I mostly focus on cav because of that, I'm sorry but it's not my fault most of the people decided to whore agi, have med/light gear and no IF, I can't even touch anybody with a decent build besides bumps. Get a few pikes, protect a few good archer and I'm gone, but hey this is much easier.

[Kafein]

About the nerfs suggested, the reason why I asked people did they ever play the class is because putting enought time in it you understand pros and cons and it's not that unbeatable and really easy to counter.

I play 15/24 Mounted Archer on a Donkey (unloomed), wearing some Lady Dress (unloomed), holding a Horn Bow (unloomed) and shooting Barbed Arrows (unloomed) and when I actually focus, I easily manage to get in the top 10 of the team, even have my piece of valor once in a while. And I am generally bad at this game.

[San]

That's why I would prefer a buff to the risky playstyle and add incentives against playing safely all the time. That's why I think a riding penalty per HA so it takes skill to be able to avoid everything consistently and returning the ranged speed bonus to reduce kiting damage and increase charge shot damage would be good changes that won't necessarily destroy HA, but weaken the safe playstyle and high levels.

[MURDERTRON]

That's why I would prefer a buff to the risky playstyle and add incentives against playing safely all the time. That's why I think a riding penalty per HA so it takes skill to be able to avoid everything consistently and returning the ranged speed bonus to reduce kiting damage and increase charge shot damage would be good changes that won't necessarily destroy HA, but weaken the safe playstyle and high levels.

Riding penalty + old HA speed bonuses would really prevent HA running away while shooting backwards.  And they'd have to be moving towards the enemy to do any real damage.

Now if only you could find a way for lancers to do any damage to HAs that are running away, we might have some sort of balance.

[Andswaru]

That's why I would prefer a buff to the risky playstyle and add incentives against playing safely all the time. That's why I think a riding penalty per HA so it takes skill to be able to avoid everything consistently and returning the ranged speed bonus to reduce kiting damage and increase charge shot damage would be good changes that won't necessarily destroy HA, but weaken the safe playstyle and high levels.

San, stop been such a people person and focus on been a balancer who sees HA for a stupidly underpowered class against anything except horses and agi my old friends, the very class/playstyle they SHOULD be strong against.

[San]

Murdertron, that is an unfortunate issue that the game probably can't fix.

I have a ton if threads that are pretty inactive in the balance forums so I just post some of that stuff here sometimes to get a general idea of how it will be received.

[Molly]

Yes San, please edit complex things instead of just reducing arrows on HAs (only) which could be done in something like 5 minutes - probably.
Oh well...