Horse archery is too strong

[Joker86]

What? So we have yet another nerf? I cba to read through the entire patch topic to find the spot where the hidden nerf has been discovered.

[San]

A bug giving certain builds 200-400 wpf (then capped to their own wpf after penalties) that was there for the last 3 years was fixed. Perhaps the other past nerfs only masked this inconsistency that was made more apparent ever since the wpf change last year.

[Joseph Porta]

A bug giving certain builds 200-400 wpf (then capped to their own wpf after penalties) that was there for the last 3 years was fixed. Perhaps the other past nerfs only masked this inconsistency that was made more apparent ever since the wpf change last year.

L. O. L. Better get used to half that muthafuckaaz   

[Vengt037]

Things that counter HA. 
1. Teamwork
2. Other HA
3. Light cav
4. Archers
5. Xbow
6. Situational awareness
7. Having a shield

I don't know what EU servers are like, but we have some highly skilled HA on NA1. However, whenever I play archer my teammates and I make it a priority to "bring them down." Rarely do they see the end of the round, and if they do? Guess what, devs already nerfed HA's ability to delay earlier this year by speeding up flag spawn times.

I realize it sucks fighting against some classes. Sometimes you're on a roll and some bullshit thrower, hoplite, crushthrough weapon, bumpslash, hiltslash, bullshit kills you and you get angry. "This is unjust!" You think. "He killed me so easily, and I'd been fighting so manfully and skillfully."

But to me, this is all part of the masochistically fun learning experience that is C-RPG. The fun of it, for me, isn't trolling the forums demanding a nerf to this or that, but in thinking up new and creative ways to overcome the various challenges the game has to offer. In doing so, you become stronger, smarter, more flexible, and better at communicating w/ your comrades.

That being said, sometimes a nerf is absolutely necessary, but I would consider the faster flag spawning and increased riding difficulties to be sufficient for now.

[Grumbs]

Things that counter HA. 
1. Teamwork
2. Other HA
3. Light cav
4. Archers
5. Xbow
6. Situational awareness
7. Having a shield

I don't know what EU servers are like, but we have some highly skilled HA on NA1. However, whenever I play archer my teammates and I make it a priority to "bring them down." Rarely do they see the end of the round, and if they do? Guess what, devs already nerfed HA's ability to delay earlier this year by speeding up flag spawn times.

I realize it sucks fighting against some classes. Sometimes you're on a roll and some bullshit thrower, hoplite, crushthrough weapon, bumpslash, hiltslash, bullshit kills you and you get angry. "This is unjust!" You think. "He killed me so easily, and I'd been fighting so manfully and skillfully."

But to me, this is all part of the masochistically fun learning experience that is C-RPG. The fun of it, for me, isn't trolling the forums demanding a nerf to this or that, but in thinking up new and creative ways to overcome the various challenges the game has to offer. In doing so, you become stronger, smarter, more flexible, and better at communicating w/ your comrades.

That being said, sometimes a nerf is absolutely necessary, but I would consider the faster flag spawning and increased riding difficulties to be sufficient for now.

You can apply that to absolutely anything in the game regardless of balance. If you see someone who is a very important target to kill you focus him down or throw more resources at him. Whether someone is high priority or not should be based on their own ability at the game, not the class they choose

[San]

I tried making the most agi lancer possible at 9-33 to catch HA. It was decent at it, but not great enough, since the squishiness of the build demanded few mistakes against a good one that kept his distance. It was an insane bumping machine against infantry, though.


I found that using an HT in medium armor + medium horse or heavier was much better at actually decimating HA as long as I wasn't being targeted by too many other people at the same time.

[Chosen1]

Why are we catering to the minority here? Like 20 people in all of cRPG play HA, why do we have to let them keep ruining the mod?

[Macropus]

The whole "HAs deal damage without infantry being able to fight back" issue is overrated, there are several other cases when a player can't do anything against another player and dies, for example: an archer without melee weapon can't do anything against agi shielder, a pikeman can't do anything 1 vs 1 against another infantry etc.

[Joker86]

A bug giving certain builds 200-400 wpf (then capped to their own wpf after penalties) that was there for the last 3 years was fixed. Perhaps the other past nerfs only masked this inconsistency that was made more apparent ever since the wpf change last year.

Well okay, at least I can't blame the devs of again having tried to fix a problem with a nerf. But only because they get the benefit of a doubt.

[Godfredus]

Significanlty reduce the shooting angle for HA, like you already did to the attack angle of lancers.
Increase mounted archery penalty so they won't be accurate when riding. Forbid them to drive horse right or left, when drawing a bow.

[Grumbs]

The whole "HAs deal damage without infantry being able to fight back" issue is overrated, there are several other cases when a player can't do anything against another player and dies, for example: an archer without melee weapon can't do anything against agi shielder, a pikeman can't do anything 1 vs 1 against another infantry etc.

Thats people limiting themselves when they have no reason to. Theres no reason for an archer not to take a Broad Short Sword at least, and even with a hammer they can block indefinately until they get a chance to kite. A pike is at a disadvantage 1v1, but he can also have a backup sidearm or kick/nudge until they can kite a bit. HA's only put themselves at risk when they choose to. Melee on the other hand have nothing to do but hide or hold up a shield and hope the HA doesn't go behind you or bump

Do you think melee are pointlessly limiting themselves by not taking a ranged weapon? Maybe, but thats a fault of the game balance imo - I don't think this game should be all about ranged gameplay when we have such a good melee system. I'd sooner play any other FPS in my game library than play this to shoot people, especially if I were shooting people who want to play for the melee gameplay

[CrazyCracka420]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[MURDERTRON]

Reduce maneuverability and speed for HA when drawing/firing.  This will give other cav a chance to catch them if they they don't create enough space first.  This will still allow HA to kite other cav, but not shoot quite as rapidly and then they'll be more likely to make a mistake.

[Senni__Ti]

I tried making the most agi lancer possible at 9-33 to catch HA. It was decent at it, but not great enough, since the squishiness of the build demanded few mistakes against a good one that kept his distance. It was an insane bumping machine against infantry, though.


I found that using an HT in medium armor + medium horse or heavier was much better at actually decimating HA as long as I wasn't being targeted by too many other people at the same time.

There used to be a decent HT on EU with that setup + throwing spears.
Wasn't anything I feared more when playing HA.

It is a lot less accurate post-patch and I'm not sure if I'm doing less damage. Probably just my switch from khergit -> bodkins today.
I did headshot an archer who had a Boerk, he didn't die. (+3 yumi, bodkins and 18:24 build, stationary shot)

Didn't really change how I played, infantry still can't touch me unless I let them. Still need something to allow melee cav atleast to catch up.

[Smoothrich]

You also gotta take into account actual medieval tactics into the whole equation. Sure, a bunch of infantrymen going for a beeline after a horsearcher are gonna get shot up, but unmounted archers can easily pick them off provided they have a good position and/or protection from infantry. The mongols dominated the battlefield because nobody could catch up to them. Then people realized they could force the horse archer to become a sitting duck by harassing them with foot archers that were impossible to fire upon due to pikemen and/or shielded infantry. Foot archers can hit horse archers at a much greater range, and the horse archer could not approach the archer due to defensive, stationary infantry.

"Actual medieval tactics" isn't the same thing as your memory of playing Medieval: Total War against Very Easy AI bots.

edit: the actual strategy was to hide behind walls. Unfortunately for half the world, the Mongols were the first steppe nomads to acquire advanced siege engineering from their Chinese vassals. This led to them killing everyone and everything, until they started to kill each other instead.

Besides that, Chinese and other powers that dealt with nomadic steppe tribes would just employ other steppe tribes to fight them. It is an unparalleled warrior culture with tactical and strategic versatility that nothing until gunpowder could deal with.

Also Mongol and Turkish composite bows, fired from horseback, shot farther and with more force, while still being easier and faster to use, than an English Longbow and similar weapons.