I dont want to read posts about nothing for 10+ pages again, just give me an anwer - YES or NO?maybe yes, maybe not
Either nerf all stabs or non of them.
***cue a sarcastic answer from paul which says nothing useful but which he thinks is funny; yet actually manages to make him sound like a colossal arsehole***
buff downblock
Remove everything but overheads and we can start playing medieval Benny Hill.
I don't feel like I'm missing much with a non-stab 1h, most people can't even stab well with it and their sideswings barely do damage. The artificial stab damage buffs should be reverted, then look at the animation to see how much it should be changed. I think the whining is over the top.
i think the fact that a dagger and shield can 5v1 and always win is a problem, but maybe thats just me
let's say you're facing 2 opponents, the main one you're engaging to the front and a guy with a 1h/shield to the side
if you try to do a switch attack on to the guy to the side, if he is using the stab it is impossible, unless you also use the stab, because the stab is so much faster even than a leftswing
not just for 1h mind, but the instant c-rpg stab is making it pretty darned impossible to fight 1v2 against anyone using stabs
I personally think they should just revert the stabs to how they were in native, but compensate for the difficulty in hitting them by slightly buffing their damage or something similar
let's say you're facing 2 opponents, the main one you're engaging to the front and a guy with a 1h/shield to the side
if you try to do a switch attack on to the guy to the side, if he is using the stab it is impossible, unless you also use the stab, because the stab is so much faster even than a leftswing
not just for 1h mind, but the instant c-rpg stab is making it pretty darned impossible to fight 1v2 against anyone using stabs
I personally think they should just revert the stabs to how they were in native, but compensate for the difficulty in hitting them by slightly buffing their damage or something similar
even when i wear high armour, the 1h stab is extremely hard to block; as an example i have been playing with jackiechan when he has been purposely abusing the long espada eslavona stab as much as possible, and you may disagree, but it seems a lot faster, higher damaging and generally more effective than even a spear support in a 2v1; not to mention a lot longer range (it maintains it's high damage accross the stab, from closest point to furthest), than it really should be.
i'd like to reiterate, i don't just disapprove of 1h instant stab, i don't like the instant stab mechanic in general; i thought crpg was better when stabs were not instant
regards, Corsair
Also, people that have never played any other weapon class for 2+ years might be considered biased and not see all the different angles here.I've played every class except for 2h and bows.
regards, Corsair
Without this line I wouldnt know it was you, Corsair! :shock:I've always wondered what makes people sign with their names when it says the name of the poster on the left.
Idlewild
To me it's clear that all the stabs need a reduction in how long they are active, so they don't hit at the tip of their reach aka when the weapon has stopped having momentum.Worst part about them. They have ridiculous reach.
Just reduce pierce damage on all one handed swords and give them more cut damage instead (something like -2p +2c). Internal one handed balance could also really need some changes. Side Sword for example is way too strong compared to all (mid tier) swords.that would render my side weapon on 5 ps worthless :/
Oh and nerf fucking Awlpike.
that would render my side weapon on 5 ps worthless :/
that would render my side weapon on 5 ps worthless :/lol wat
To me it's clear that all the stabs need a reduction in how long they are active, so they don't hit at the tip of their reach aka when the weapon has stopped having momentum. Walking your stabs into people is terrible. Also when a stab gets blocked or gets a hit in it should have a longer delay before being able to do another one, mostly in the case of polearms and 1h. However, if the deluded opinion persists that stabs are fine, the entire 1h section needs a rebalance as it is completely skewed towards stabby swords now. Polearm could use a rebalance then as well, as I see little point in using anything but two-directional stab polearms.
Why? Which weapon are you planning to use? Even with 5 power strike there are lots of useful one handed weapons.short sword
All stabs should be penalized with a stun after being blocked, the length of the stun should be decided by how far into the animation the stab connected with the block. For fun, should apply the same to hitting unbreakable objects like ground, walls etc.Wat, this is all in already exactly as you describe it. Block stun is usually very minor and just prevents you from being able to spam, except if you hit very late in the animation, then the stun can be longer and prevent you from being able to block your next opponents attack, at least with greatswords and two-directional polearms. Not so sure about 1h, which might recover fast enough, stun duration seems to depend on speed rating. The stun from hitting an object is always long, with my dear pike it literally takes like 1.5 second before you can block again. Hitting an object with that weapon is a dead sentence if anyone is attacking you.
I just notice how much of a retard I am now I loomed a short sword, I don't even have an idea how good it will be after a nerf :/
Don't worry no rules I'll be there for you to take off your short swordeven if it is nerfed?
even if it is nerfed?
<3
Stat Whore!You got downvoted, but my OCD forced me to make it right again. Hate to see that lame -1 .
even if it is nerfed?I only want it When it's nerfed what a silly question :D
<3
Without this line I wouldnt know it was you, Corsair! :shock:
Idlewild
short sword
Although it's not particularly well known or heavily discussed, a blocked pole arm stab grants a free hit to someone who knows it's coming and had high WPF and a fast weapon if they don't get weapon stunned. 1h stab recovery is no where near as bad.
It feels odd seeing 3 Namo Appreciators post one after another
wuts dis Namo thing about?Im in Astralis and i dont know about it...Do you appreciate Rob Namo?
thats a lot of ifs.
The stun from hitting an object is always long, with my dear pike it literally takes like 1.5 second before you can block again. Hitting an object with that weapon is a dead sentence if anyone is attacking you.
Do you appreciate Rob Namo?Yes I do! Namo is the best!
The funny thing is that when someone complained about polearms stab he always heard: learn 2 downblock. Though I do agree to some extent that 1h stab is kind of OP (not in comaparison to 2h or pole stab but to other attacks), but definitely not gamebreaking. I don't see hords of 1h stabers toping the scoreboard. most of shielders still use swing oriented weapons. But whatever, maybe they will buff my niuweidao :P
and i like how its only the 1 handers that support this notion of yours :)And I like how the level 35 2h greatsworder is the one crying nerf polearm and 1h stabs!
i indeed am, since my polearmer alt is higher gen than my main, and my stf is a 1hander. its ok thow zlisch you biased manchildJust because you play every class doesn't mean you're not a biased fuck, the only characters I've ever retired were horsethrowers, a 2h archer hybrid who spent level 30 with a 2h and no bow, and a 2h character, if retirements meant shit I'd be a 2h enthusiast.
**heavygreatsworder, because style
yet you think 2handed stabs are more broken than 1 handed stabs atm, witch kindoff says alot about your bias :lol:I think that all things (stats included) considered, they're about equally broken, also, way to miss my point completely.
Either nerf all stabs or non of them.
high end 1 handers have more pierce than high end 2 handers, enough said
But when you see an entire class in the field doing nothing but one move and one move only, you start seeing things on a different perspective.
all stabs are broken, they're retardedly fast, look at knitler, full tincan, not amazingly high WPF and yet he still hits faster than the vast majority of people because of these instant stabs
i'm getting rather sick of not being able to target-switch onto anyone who's using a stab (unless i use my own stab (lol)) ... the stab is the longest attack, why is it also the fastest ?! ?! :/
imo revert back to native stabs
This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.
You call 170wpf not much?2h weapons have lowes dmg on stab
Anyway, i also think stabs are kinda OP... just nerf everything but one thing is for sure and you ppl have to agree - If that weapon was supposed to stab it shouldnt be that hard nerfed.
Examples:
All the pointy and short 1h weapons; Long Espada, Broad Short Sword, Short Arming Sword, etc.
2h; Goedendag (the only 2h weapon which shouldnt get affected by a thrust/stab nerf.... just remove the lolstab and high dmg on 2h.
polearms: On polearms its actually just the lolstab ... the damage is ok cause its supposed to be.
There is one kind of a weapon which is just not good to be implemented in game;
Examples:
Daggers - extremly high dmg and speed - decide for one and ppl are not gonna run around with high agy builds and shitting into normal players fun
Btw .... there is also a "lolstab" on 2h Hammers if you want to call it like that :)
This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.
That is a terrible argument.(click to show/hide)
This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.That is a terrible argument. Meaning that you have a chance to defend yourself against them means they are okay regardless of their other traits? One could block a 100 speed Flamberge as well, so that wouldn't be unbalanced. Stabs are way too strong now in comparison to other attacks, which should be balanced out. Just using a stabby polearm makes me roll on the floor with laughter due to the sheer OP-ness. Partisans, awlpikes and the like are utter bullshit. My pike seems to have +50 effective reach due to being able to stab at the arse end of the animation for full damage.
That is a terrible argument. Meaning that you have a chance to defend yourself against them means they are okay regardless of their other traits?No, you don't just have a "chance." They aren't particularly difficult to block. Which is why they're fine.
No, you don't just have a "chance." They aren't particularly difficult to block. Which is why they're fine.
Even if there were 45% 2h/pole there would be only 22,5% of each. Not so big numbers anymore?
Perhaps some of them even use shield too? Hoplites?
And 1 of 10 shielder? Really?
Some people say that ALL 1h swords need a stab damage nerf and that 1h sword stabs outclass 2h swords. That is not true. There's only a FEW swords that have more stab damage, but they all have significantly less swing damage. The biggest difference between 1h stab and 2h stab damage would have to be (in my opinion) fighting style. As 1handers are so short, you are almost always moving forward when you fight. 2-handers usually strafe more when fighting as it's easier to use your longer weapon to attack opponents in unblockable areas. As the 1-hander is almost always moving forward, they utilize speed bonus more often. Speed bonus adds a significant boost to damage. Especially when combined with a held attack, you can do a FUCK-TON of damage even with low PS. This combined with pierce damage (which bypasses most of your armor) makes stabs hurt a lot. That is also why awlpikes (and all long, stabbing polearms) are so effective. As a support role, you're usually running at someone with a held attack and doing a fuckton of damage.Maybe the difference in damage between 2h and pole/1h stabs has more to do with that the highest 2h stab damage is 26p and the highest 1h/pole stab damages are 31p/33p respectively? That is not a small difference. Which is a problem because 1h should not do the same or even more damage than the other 2 classes, simply because 1h allows you to use a shield without penalties. Speed bonus and hold attacks are not used differently by these classes, at least not in any significant or constant way.
One question I have, is how come 1h stabs weren't seen as a problem way back in the day when everyone could do them, but they are such a huge problem now? My 1h actually does less damage at MW then it did back then. My only guess is that the playerbase is overall more skilled now than they were back then, and every decent 1-hander knows that it's all about abusing held attacks and speed bonus.Multiple reasons for that:
I agree that 1h is not the only broken stab.Should be also valid for kicks too.
2h has an insane reach and you can stab the enemy in the face even if he is 10cm away from you if you masturbate your mouse in the right way. Killed quite a few people on duel with that bullshitty technique.
However there are other ways to abuse it, ask guys like GTX or Atze. They stab 1m away from you then move the sword into your body. What would result in a ridiculous move IRL makes full damage in this game.
Even the animation is shitty - How can someone realistically stab someone without losing balance? Try making the exact same moves as the characters with a heavy metal bar ; watch out for the fall. Yes, we do not balance based on realism, but 2h stab animation is a big 'fuck you' to physics altogether.
Note that the hitbox comments above apply for polearm as well - only I find the polearm animation correct.
In my opinion the only way to resolve this is to change the moment when the animation can deal damage. Use a new kind of formula which doesnt simply take into account velocity or whatever is actually used, but rather something that represents the actual force that can be applied to the hit. Perhaps even just make the very tip of the sword the hitbox when thrusting, combined with a formula that somehow states '' Force does maximum damage from a horizontal frontal movement - any variation in this angle before the hit will reduce damage dealt expodentially''
I'm sorry if I can't make my idea clear, but I'm simply showing a way that would kind of realistically represent an effective thrust whilst keeping it balanced with the other attack directions.
Maybe the difference in damage between 2h and pole/1h stabs has more to do with that the highest 2h stab damage is 26p and the highest 1h/pole stab damages are 31p/33p respectively? That is not a small difference. Which is a problem because 1h should not do the same or even more damage than the other 2 classes, simply because 1h allows you to use a shield without penalties. Speed bonus and hold attacks are not used differently by these classes, at least not in any significant or constant way.
Multiple reasons for that:
- Every weapon could turn it's stabs at the speed of light, now it is just 1h that can do that.
- Regardless of the turnrate making it easier to use, the effective reach was still much shorter than it is now. You would still glance at the arse end of your animation, unlike now.
- People generally sucked at blocking and sideswings did the trick and are easier to aim, much less need for crazy stab moves.
- Stabbing up close actually took a degree of effort or skill, now its just point and click.
hardly without penalties, 1h shield means you need to use a small weapon, where movement is important, yet a decent shield weighs like 6.5+ kg, meaning you have to either play with crap movement or light armour, which is pretty ghey
Light armor with a shield is the best way to go. If You're a shielder who's eating a lot if hits, you're a bad shielder. In fact, a lot of shielders don't know what they're doing but they get lucky enough, enough times since they have a good shield, good armor and iron flesh, which allow them to make plenty of mistakes while still getting kills.
In theory, yes, but with the amount of really bad teammates, you need more than rags to soak up the high amount of bad swings. I liked playing shielder with leather jerkin and leather gloves, but the amount of times a teammate would lob off almost all your hp and/or open you up to an enemy hit made it frustrating at times too. From Mail Shirt with Fur to Sarranid Guard Armour are good armours for shielders, in my opinion.
What I suggest is:
- Nerf 1h stab damage to balance it with other stabs.
It suggests that 1h stab dmg is higher than polearms stab. While 1h stab can deal ridiculous amount of dmg (unloomed scottish sword took from me around 50 hp with 1 hit and I had 68 body armor) awlpike hits evern harder. I remember that Heibai TKed me in 2 hits when I was wearing +3 churburg cuirass...No, it's suggests that 1h stab is supposed to cause less damage than a polearm stab
Maybe the difference in damage between 2h and pole/1h stabs has more to do with that the highest 2h stab damage is 26p and the highest 1h/pole stab damages are 31p/33p respectively? That is not a small difference. Which is a problem because 1h should not do the same or even more damage than the other 2 classes, simply because 1h allows you to use a shield without penalties. Speed bonus and hold attacks are not used differently by these classes, at least not in any significant or constant way.
| 2 handers | 1 handers | |
| Average Speed | 94 | 99 |
| Average Length | 116 | 105 |
| Average Thrust | 23p | 24p |
| Average Swing | 39c | 30c |
| German Greatsword | Great Sword | Danish Greatsword | Espada Eslavona | Scottish Sword | Side Sword | |
| Speed | 90 | 93 | 90 | 102 | 103 | 99 |
| Length | 123 | 120 | 124 | 90 | 80 | 95 |
| Thrust | 27 | 26 | 25 | 31 | 30 | 29 |
| Swing | 39 | 37 | 41 | 25 | 27 | 29 |
It is the unrealisticism.
It is the unrealisticism.
It is the unrealisticism.
It is the unrealisticism.
It is not the balance issue that bothers some people. It is the unrealisticism.
Just for shits and giggles:
Here are some comparisons between 1h and 2h swords that have both swings and thrusts. (I didn't compare polearms in this as most high-stab damage polearms are only 2-directional)
2 handers 1 handers Average Speed 94 99 Average Length 116 105 Average Thrust 23p 24p Average Swing 39c 30c
On average 1-handers have 1 more point of thrust damage than 2-handers. To overcome this horrendous shortcoming, they compensate with their much higher swing damage on 3 of their attack directions, much longer length with only slightly slower swing speed.
Let's look at the top 3 thrusting swords of both 1h and 2h.
German Greatsword Great Sword Danish Greatsword Espada Eslavona Scottish Sword Side Sword Speed 90 93 90 102 103 99 Length 123 120 124 90 80 95 Thrust 27 26 25 31 30 29 Swing 39 37 41 25 27 29
Going down the list, the 1-handers are WAY faster than the 2-handers. The difference between the fastest and slowest weapon is 13 points of speed.
The 2-handers are WAY longer than the 1-handers with a difference of 44 points between the longest and shortest.
The 1-handers have noticeably higher thrust damage with a difference of 6 points between the weakest and strongest.
The 2-handers have DRAMATICALLY higher swing damage with a difference of 16 points between the weakest and strongest.
I still don't see how 1-handers are as overpowered as everyone says they are. The 1-h thrust weapons that do a lot of damage have laughably low damage on 3 of their attacks (with a slight exception to the side sword), combined with dramatically lower length. They only thing they have going for them is their speed.
So again, (not surprisingly) the CRPG community is blowing things WAY out of proportion.
Oh, and last but not least, I learned that proving your point through comparaisons is the worst form of argument. Play the game.Oh yeah, fuck everything objective, like numbers. Let's all instead just go on our gut feel.
If you are to try a rational, scientific approach to the comparaison, at least compare apples with apples.
-Can 2h swing with a shield?
-Have you taken into account the real reach of each weapon based on animations?
-Have you taken into account secondary factors such as nudges and kicks?
Oh, and last but not least, I learned that proving your point through comparaisons is the worst form of argument. Play the game.
-Can 2h swing with a shield?
-Have you taken into account the real reach of each weapon based on animations?
-Have you taken into account secondary factors such as nudges and kicks?
go ahead and try to use right swing as 1h. granted, you would be dead in few seconds. we shielders dont have the luxury of point blank slashing that hits for full damage. we have to aim our attacks.
better question is: can 1h swing while blocking?
ofc, weapon reach doesnt matter. thats why everyone gets longest weapon possible. just to look cool /endsarcasm
i had a really good laugh from this, 2h has same benefits, and they have much better conditions for kicks.
As you said yourself, ''i had a really good laugh from this''
sure go ahead, stay in your world of blissful ignorance.
unlike you, i played both weapon types extensivelly, and i tell you, if you all werent jackasses trying to hiltslash someone s ass, you might have a better chance of survival. days when you could just run around in circles while slashing like madmen is over.
OHHH the shocker! when a guy stabs you in the face when you try to run into shielders blind spot to slash him in the back!
center your enemy, l2block, time you attacks, and you will have no trouble.
My mommy told me not to mock handicapped people, but damn you're a fine one haha :D
it takes one to know one.
plz go back in-game and abooze HS more.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Maybe one day you'll realise I'm 1h since the last patch and light will shine through your mind ;)
If you are to try a rational, scientific approach to the comparaison, at least compare apples with apples.
-Can 2h swing with a shield?
-Have you taken into account the real reach of each weapon based on animations?
-Have you taken into account secondary factors such as nudges and kicks?
Oh, and last but not least, I learned that proving your point through comparaisons is the worst form of argument. Play the game.
When 1h swing with a shield in the other hand, the only thing that shield does is slow them down.
You will find out that 2h stab is superior, 2h overhead is superior, 2h right swing is fast, 2h left swing is long and both can hiltslash. In all these things, 1h do worse.
Kicks are (almost) never used on anybody but 1h. Nudges are about equally retarded among classes (I would argue the polearm push move is the worst) and seldom used in real play.
Playing the game leads me to the conclusion that 2h stabs are still far more broken than either pole or 1h stabs. Everything also points towards the awlpike being the ultimate stab weapon and seriously broken too by a combination of damage, reach and speed. When I fight an awlpike user I can swing at him, let my animation progress to its half while he does nothing then if at that moment he taps lmb to make a stab, he kills me instantly. When someone holds a stab, you have to block before the stab is released and maintain your block. If you don't maintain your block, you die the instant the stab is released because it connects immediately. Of course this is my experience as a naked guy. When I play armored alts I often laugh at the weakness of those stabbers that keep whiffing on my lordly rus scale at close range while I chop off their heads in a ballet of longsword sideswings. The awlpike though, is able to effortlessly go through even the thickest armor at facehug range because of its high damage.
When 1h swing with a shield in the other hand, the only thing that shield does is slow them down.
You will find out that 2h stab is superior, 2h overhead is superior, 2h right swing is fast, 2h left swing is long and both can hiltslash. In all these things, 1h do worse.
Kicks are (almost) never used on anybody but 1h. Nudges are about equally retarded among classes (I would argue the polearm push move is the worst) and seldom used in real play.
Playing the game leads me to the conclusion that 2h stabs are still far more broken than either pole or 1h stabs. Everything also points towards the awlpike being the ultimate stab weapon and seriously broken too by a combination of damage, reach and speed. When I fight an awlpike user I can swing at him, let my animation progress to its half while he does nothing then if at that moment he taps lmb to make a stab, he kills me instantly. When someone holds a stab, you have to block before the stab is released and maintain your block. If you don't maintain your block, you die the instant the stab is released because it connects immediately. Of course this is my experience as a naked guy. When I play armored alts I often laugh at the weakness of those stabbers that keep whiffing on my lordly rus scale at close range while I chop off their heads in a ballet of longsword sideswings. The awlpike though, is able to effortlessly go through even the thickest armor at facehug range because of its high damage.
If you are to try a rational, scientific approach to the comparaison, at least compare apples with apples.
Oh, and last but not least, I learned that proving your point through comparaisons is the worst form of argument. Play the game.
My initial comment was merely pointing out the fact that the wannabe scientist didnt take into account the animations.
-Can 2h swing with a shield?
-Have you taken into account the real reach of each weapon based on animations?
| 2 handers | 1 handers | |
| Average Speed | 94 | 99 |
| Average Length | 116 | 105 |
| Average Thrust | 23p | 24p |
| Average Swing | 39c | 30c |
| Average of 2h | Average of 1h | |
| Average Overhead Length | 131 | 105 |
| Average L to R Length | 105 | 133 |
| Average R to L Length | 129 | 124 |
| Average Thrust Length | 196 | 166 |
-Have you taken into account secondary factors such as nudges and kicks?
you seem to be one of those people who think that everything that is not your main is easy to play and that everything that kills you is OP.
(click to show/hide)
-The thing most people don't know about kicks is that it is as deadly to the victim as it can be to the user. If you don't believe me ask those who tried to kick me in duel
Kafein you are as biased towards 1h as Panos is towards polearm
I increased 1h stab blocked anim duration by 50ms for next patch. I won't do anything else.
1h stab blocked duration is on par now with polearms. 2h stab even has 50ms on top of that. They all use weapon speed though as a modifier so it won't do anything about rondels.
1h stab blocked duration is on par now with polearms. 2h stab even has 50ms on top of that. They all use weapon speed though as a modifier so it won't do anything about rondels.
well, can you add the effective range of polearm stabs for 1hand then?
polearms should have maybe, possibly been tweaked to make them a little better
Nightmare, Mala, ehm, do you really think that 1h stab doesn't need some kind of nerf?
... What? I think I misunderstood you, you're saying that polearms stab should be better? :shock: We don't play the same game then :rolleyes:
Nightmare, Mala, ehm, do you really think that 1h stab doesn't need some kind of nerf?
... What? I think I misunderstood you, you're saying that polearms stab should be better? :shock: We don't play the same game then :rolleyes:
Nightmare, Mala, ehm, do you really think that 1h stab doesn't need some kind of nerf?
... What? I think I misunderstood you, you're saying that polearms stab should be better? :shock: We don't play the same game then :rolleyes:
Well, considering that right swing is still trash that glances all the time
Other than the war spear/red tassel spear and 2 directionals, poelarm stabs are pretty weak... or rather pretty average, where ALL stabs should be.
Well, considering that right swing is still trash that glances all the time, and the fact that shields impose great movement speed penalties, I think not.if you are not troll then you have no >fuking< idea what you are talking about
It is powerful, But I say that every weapon class has its perks.
about that plz comment, that was meant to be joke.
Elegant poleaxe, german poleaxe, poleaxe: 26, 29, 31 pierce. Weak stab? :shock: There's only 4 1h swords which have at least 29 pierce dmg, 3 of them have not more than 95 cm and all of them have not more than 29 cut dmg while all poles mentioned above have 39+ cut dmg. POles have weak stab... :rolleyes: Okay, it's pointless and retarded, not gonna argue about that.
Apart from the longer (usually 2 directional) polearms, the stab is pretty sub par (considering that par is now 2h/1h lolstab). Many polearms are spears of some sort, and yet their stab is worse than swords'? A spear should be the best stabbing weapon, since it really only has that one main attack direction. Other than the war spear/red tassel spear and 2 directionals, poelarm stabs are pretty weak... or rather pretty average, where ALL stabs should be. Look at the bec for example... if anyone wants to tell me that stab is OP in any way, go ahead. You would be dead wrong. It's swings are far better in every way. The stab is just there for another viable attack direction. Honestly, why the stab is only 26p while swings are 34p is kinda weird... but whatever. It's got a balanced stab, so hallelujah!(click to show/hide)
I won't mention the waves of sarcasm that flow through my mind right now.
You will find out that when combined with +8-10 speed rating
, a lighter weight
and perhaps a few more athletics
, 1h can keep its distances vs 2h and polearm.
As for the hiltslash, as usual, you people seem to completely overlook the left spam. But no worries, I didnt expect you to be fair in your comparaison.
However I will not say that a 1h user will have the same reach as 2h or polearm. My initial comment was merely pointing out the fact that the wannabe scientist didnt take into account the animations.
-The thing most people don't know about kicks is that it is as deadly to the victim as it can be to the user.
If you don't believe me ask those who tried to kick me in duel or guys like Hagur.
Nudges aren't like that. And please, please don't bullshit me with the ''polearm nudge is the worst'', unless you really have no idea what you're talking about. However I fully agree with you that they are retarded.
I disagree about the fact that 2h is more broken than 1h stab. Thanks to devs lack of testing, 1h now has that medal.
However yeah all stabs are broken and are a joke. 1h, 2h, polearm, hell even ranged if we take into account that they still stun you for a full second.
NB: Please don't reply to my questions if you're not the guy I asked the question to.
Kafein you are as biased towards 1h as Panos is towards polearm and Rufio is towards 2h. Which means I am taking anything you post on the subject of melee balance with a pinch of salt.
Gambling destroyed Kafein's life
Love how Kafein thinks literally instant hits is bullshit, be it stabs or swings, when it only deals damage on ridiculously low armour, which he himself uses (naked). I also have a character with 6 body armour, and there's some hits that I can't react to, not a chance, but on every other character (>25 armour) I can block the regular hiltslashes and fast stabs if I'm paying a bit attention.
Get more armour and the game makes more sense. A leather jerkin and mail gauntlets/leather gloves doesn't slow you down a lot, looks nice and the real instant hits are gone. If you don't do it, fine, but the game is not balanced around naked players with a deli hat.
Can't be arsed replying to all the other stuff I disagree with. :P
You need to be in facehug range to nudge at all. If you s-key someone who tries to nudge you, you'll never, ever get nudged.
Nightmare, Mala, ehm, do you really think that 1h stab doesn't need some kind of nerf?
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Well here we go again... shit I have too much free time on my hands.heavy in this case means double of the actual weight. the thing is, the weight for the shield has no real benefit, you can be block stunned even while using a large steel shield.
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Heavy is a very subjective word, but I disagree on them being such a burden as you describe them. Yes, maybe it's because I used to play with 3 agi, but I play 18/18 with a plate covered shield and medium-heavy armor and I'm decently fast. No need to ''stack athletics'' or wear light armor.
Getting kicked or mauled is rare in battle mode.
-Axes are made to counter shield. A MW shield with decent (5-6) shield skill doesnt go down in a couple of hits, even vs axes.2h axes need three swings to destroy my shield. if i would use more points in shield skill (like 10) than this would be four hits or i would invest nearly all of my points into agi and shield skill, well then it would be unbreakable.
2h axes need three swings to destroy my shield. if i would use more points in shield skill (like 10) than this would be four hits or i would invest nearly all of my points into agi and shield skill, well then it would be unbreakable.It is the weakness of steel buckler. Other shields are not as weak as them versus axes.
1h axes need a bit longer, 6 to 7 hits.
I nudge a lot on my 1h alt because of the free 33 pierce stab (:D), but pretty much the only guys I nudge are backpedaling. A bit risky on enemies with okay athletics who strafe a lot. How you can say you can't be nudged while backpedaling is beyond me. You can even knock them down while they backpedal, which is hilarious.
If 2 hand stab is OP then nerf that, don't just get into a buff spiral where you make other weapons just as silly to compensate
lack of block stun
If 2 hand stab is OP then nerf that, don't just get into a buff spiral where you make other weapons just as silly to compensate
I spent already too much time ''debating'' with you guys, and despite everything you keep saying that 1h is perfectly balanced when a simple glance at the servers show it's not.
However I understand that it is difficult to judge how broken 1h is when all the other classes are fucked up as well :D
It is by all means more balanced than before the changes to animations. Do you remember many people running around with stabbing swords back then ? I sure fucking don't. Not to mention the big trend lately on EU_2 is max WM armor clad miaodao braindead spam demons.
So 1h is the only class that isn't permitted to have fucked up broken stuff ?
Only those who knew how to stab and had a stabbing weapon used it. I know Zlisch used them.
The thrusts were a bit too difficult, but it was balanced in the way that it wasn't 3 normal swings and 1 OHMAHGAWDINSTASTABLULZFLLDMGL2BN00B as we have today.
I mostly rage against 1h because 2h and polearm have got their share of the hate for a long time and have been nerfed, despite still being broken.
This new 1h stab animation and the free hit nudge are a big bird-giving to everything the community has stood for.That's why.
I think that right now, with all stabs about equally retarded in slightly different ways, they should all be fixed simultaneously. It is undeniably more fair than before the animation revamp, but the game plays a little bit more wonky than what we were used to.
Not to mention the big trend lately on EU_2 is max WM armor clad miaodao braindead spam demons.
I think the 1h stab is fine. Damage/speed should be increased on 3 directional one handers and two handers though. Basically anything that does not have a thrust.
Only those who knew how to stab and had a stabbing weapon used it. I know Zlisch used them. The thrusts were a bit too difficult, but it was balanced in the way that it wasn't 3 normal swings and 1 OHMAHGAWDINSTASTABLULZFLLDMGL2BN00B as we have today.I certainly didn't use an espada because it was OP, I picked that weapon because I loved the look and the look of the stab animation, the thrusts weren't "a bit" too difficult, they didn't match the animation in any logical way whatsoever, halfway through stabbing you'd already glance, I do believe the reach the stab should give should be something in between then and now, but claiming that that animation was "a bit too difficult" is fucking retarded, yes I could use it after intense training, because I learned to ignore the animation and act as if an animation that fits the standard results makes sense. The espada wasn't all that hard, it was a bit UP before it's damage and speed got buffed, it became a decent weapon afterwards (BUT ONLY IF YOU LEARNED TO IGNORE WHAT YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN AND GO WITH YOUR INSTINCTS WHEN USING IT)...
I mostly rage against 1h because 2h and polearm have got their share of the hate for a long time and have been nerfed, despite still being broken. This new 1h stab animation and the free hit nudge are a big bird-giving to everything the community has stood for.That's why.
Also to whoever claimed every 1h are using stabby weapons now, do you even fucking play the game? While the amount of 1h stabbers have gone up slightly the vast majority still use regular swords.
I am starting to wonder why I even have a MW Huscarl shield. I can't count how many times xbow bolts go through it and kill me.
You actually hear the bolt hit the shield and then hit you.
I think there is a bug with the huscarl shield that I do not know about or that others know about but do not say anything about it.
I think the 1h stab is fine. Damage/speed should be increased on 3 directional one handers and two handers though. Basically anything that does not have a thrust.
So it's also like that in EU? Amusing.
So let me get things straight :
-All stabs are equally retarded.
-The big trend for 2handers is using a stabless Miadao.
-The big trend for 1handers is using a high pierce stab.
When i went into eu-2, i saw, in a 20 populated server at night, two effective 13 shieldskill practice shield + rondel, abusing the stab (pierce), then just pressing "x" and surprising people with a very fast swing (pierce). Also, i was in a balliste, shot at a shielder, and... shield blocked it. Shot at a 2h hero in full plate : onehit kill.
I'm sure removing completely the rondel dagger will also limit the amount of complains from 1hstab.
And, like Paul once said, adjusting the stundelay, when your stab is blocked, for 1handers. Pikemen can't block upwards after having their thrust blocked. One handers can attack again after having their thrust stun, if the opponent tries an overhead.
Stop the buffing spiral please. And seriously, buffing damage/speed of a Miadao ? Are you insane ?
I certainly didn't use an espada because it was OP, I picked that weapon because I loved the look and the look of the stab animation, the thrusts weren't "a bit" too difficult, they didn't match the animation in any logical way whatsoever, halfway through stabbing you'd already glance, I do believe the reach the stab should give should be something in between then and now, but claiming that that animation was "a bit too difficult" is fucking retarded, yes I could use it after intense training, because I learned to ignore the animation and act as if an animation that fits the standard results makes sense. The espada wasn't all that hard, it was a bit UP before it's damage and speed got buffed, it became a decent weapon afterwards (BUT ONLY IF YOU LEARNED TO IGNORE WHAT YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN AND GO WITH YOUR INSTINCTS WHEN USING IT)...
Way to exaggerate. Espada is nothing like an awlpike, let alone a "100 speed one with 3 other swings."
That same asshole could instead be using a Spathovaklion or one of 1h's many other blunt weapons. You know, weapons that are as fast, longer, do more damage and have knockdown?
Maces are not faster and longer than the espada, they're slower and shorter. Maces do more damage on the swings, but lacks a stab, and the stab of the espada is stronger damage-wise than the swings of the maces.
I don't think Espada is broken myself, having very weak swings and all. Just had to comment on the bullshit you said about length and speed.
My mistake on the length, but a difference of 3 speed is nothing to anyone who knows what they're doing..
My mistake on the length, but a difference of 3 speed is nothing to anyone who knows what they're doing..
Yes, the fastest maces are "only" 3 points slower non-heirloomed, 4 at mw. The longest mace is 8 slower non-heirloomed, 9 at mw. These are significant numbers and does matter.
If 3 speed is nothing, why is Longsword overused while two-handed sword is rarely used?
stahp plz stahp, you say this, but you no realise what if both have good footwork, what gives you the edge?, the faster hits yes? yes? also the weapon weight being lighter than the 2handedsword makes the longswords turnrate slightly faster, all these advatages all these advantages. but but it must be a trend i think.
stahp plz stahp, you say this, but you no realise what if both have good footwork, what gives you the edge?, the faster hits yes? yes? also the weapon weight being lighter than the 2handedsword makes the longswords turnrate slightly faster, all these advatages all these advantages. but but it must be a trend i think.Damn, a new stage of ultrabias from Rufio, now you're whining about other 2hs as well.
Last two pages of this were such a good read that I don't think I need to take a look at anything aside from the first. Cool thread indeed.
We got the culprit ! Burn the witch ! :evil: