Author Topic: 1h stab  (Read 15043 times)

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Offline Teeth

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2013, 12:00:04 am »
+11
I think people that state that stabs are fine are extremely deluded or simply do not play, but regardless of whether you find stabs OP or not, inner weapon balance has been greatly upset by the latest change. You know why 2h had relatively low pierce damage on stabs, the best being a measly 26 pierce? Because 2h stab was amazing and any higher stats would make the 2h stab too strong, leaving very little point in using the other directions. Now all the stabs are pretty much as good as the 2h. They last a lot longer and are a lot less prone to glancing at any part of the animation.

Just compare. The Great Sword has 26 pierce for 37 cut on swings. The best 1h stabber is the Long Espada with 29 pierce for 27 cut swings. Now this was okay before, both these weapons were definitely stab focused, but the Long Espada could have much higher relative pierce damage on its stab due to the relative difficulty of using the 1h stab. Now 1h stab is piss easy to use, which means that 29 pierce is a ridiculous amount of stab damage, which leaves very little point in ever touching the swings, or ever touching a swing focused 1h for that matter. Having 30 pierce weapons at a 100 reach and super speed, usable with a shield means something entirely different now. 35 cut compared to 30 pierce is utter bullshit when stabs are this effective.

To me it's clear that all the stabs need a reduction in how long they are active, so they don't hit at the tip of their reach aka when the weapon has stopped having momentum. Walking your stabs into people is terrible. Also when a stab gets blocked or gets a hit in it should have a longer delay before being able to do another one, mostly in the case of polearms and 1h. However, if the deluded opinion persists that stabs are fine, the entire 1h section needs a rebalance as it is completely skewed towards stabby swords now. Polearm could use a rebalance then as well, as I see little point in using anything but two-directional stab polearms.

Offline Xant

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2013, 12:02:35 am »
0
To me it's clear that all the stabs need a reduction in how long they are active, so they don't hit at the tip of their reach aka when the weapon has stopped having momentum.
Worst part about them. They have ridiculous reach.
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Offline Sauce

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2013, 12:06:34 am »
0
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 10:47:43 pm by Sauce »

Offline Erzengel

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2013, 12:07:35 am »
+4
Just reduce pierce damage on all one handed swords and give them more cut damage instead (something like -2p +2c). Internal one handed balance could also really need some changes. Side Sword for example is way too strong compared to all (mid tier) swords.

Oh and nerf fucking Awlpike.

Offline no_rules_just_play

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2013, 12:08:25 am »
-2
Just reduce pierce damage on all one handed swords and give them more cut damage instead (something like -2p +2c). Internal one handed balance could also really need some changes. Side Sword for example is way too strong compared to all (mid tier) swords.

Oh and nerf fucking Awlpike.
that would render my side weapon on 5 ps worthless :/

Offline Erzengel

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2013, 12:09:39 am »
0
that would render my side weapon on 5 ps worthless :/

Why? Which weapon are you planning to use? Even with 5 power strike there are lots of useful one handed weapons.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2013, 12:34:18 am »
0
that would render my side weapon on 5 ps worthless :/
lol wat
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline San

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2013, 12:43:30 am »
+4
@Sauce
Just responding to what you said, not discrediting anyone afaik. Everyone has some sort of bias. My stance is actually the opposite of most dedicated non-stabbing 1hers and I haven't experienced any out of the ordinary challenges when fighting a 1h stabber compared to other stab weapons in 2h and polearm and just see them all as one thing and same strategy to deal with. I've been annoyed by most stabs since the turn nerf since I couldn't chamber them easily anymore, but have since adapted.

To me it's clear that all the stabs need a reduction in how long they are active, so they don't hit at the tip of their reach aka when the weapon has stopped having momentum. Walking your stabs into people is terrible. Also when a stab gets blocked or gets a hit in it should have a longer delay before being able to do another one, mostly in the case of polearms and 1h. However, if the deluded opinion persists that stabs are fine, the entire 1h section needs a rebalance as it is completely skewed towards stabby swords now. Polearm could use a rebalance then as well, as I see little point in using anything but two-directional stab polearms.

This (I believe non-stabbing 1hs are still very viable, though). I believe stabs should have a clear area in the beginning and end where they just glance. Due to the high base damage and the way speed bonus works, you could stab someone after you missed on the most important part of the animation. I just believe this is an entire stab issue rather than a 1h issue (outside of very high pierce damage that needs to be toned done).

For an alternative to the stab block lag, what do you think about giving the stab extra cooldown if it misses? That makes it so you don't have to risk getting speed-bonus hit to try to get it to glance, and the stabber can't just backpedal stab spam easily after a miss like he can now. I'm just worried about the slower stab weapons since they'll just get hit even more often after a block if the lag is increased.

Offline Camaris

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2013, 02:06:01 am »
+6
If you stop that fucking huscarldaggers im fine.

Offline no_rules_just_play

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2013, 02:16:30 am »
0
Why? Which weapon are you planning to use? Even with 5 power strike there are lots of useful one handed weapons.
short sword

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2013, 02:43:15 am »
0
IMO the change 1h stab needs is make it active a bit later, as it is now it can hit so fast that one can barely feint against it. I dont mind the range, i can work around that but insta hits can be sort of a pain.
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Offline Xant

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2013, 03:21:31 am »
+6
Yeah, well, the balancers think the new kick is better than the old kick. Wouldn't be surprised if 1h stab was buffed.
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Offline rufio

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2013, 05:48:38 am »
-2
well like stated a few times in different threads, tydeus is off the radar, and he is the one mainly responsible for ballancing atm. kick cone, stab tweaks on 1handers and polearms, knockdown chance tweaks, ranged stagger tweaks. all these things would improve the ballance and gameplay of this game, imo. there was a response somewhere saying that cmp is the only one who can change the kicks, but i guess he is a buisy man right now with other prioritys. time will tell what devs decide to do next.

oh hey zlisch , nice of you to pop in biased manchild
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 05:51:48 am by rufio »
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Offline Falka

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2013, 09:28:36 am »
+5
The funny thing is that when someone complained about polearms stab he always heard: learn 2 downblock. Though I do agree to some extent that 1h stab is kind of OP (not in comaparison to 2h or pole stab but to other attacks), but definitely not gamebreaking. I don't see hords of 1h stabers toping the scoreboard. most of shielders still use swing oriented weapons. But whatever, maybe they will buff my niuweidao :P
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Offline Bjord

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2013, 10:05:13 am »
-2
All stabs should be penalized with a stun after being blocked, the length of the stun should be decided by how far into the animation the stab connected with the block. For fun, should apply the same to hitting unbreakable objects like ground, walls etc.
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