was there a patch today??
so this is kind of a polearm nerf? if i stab the enemy first because my weapon is longer, he can still kill me?
Exactly
worst add on to the game get rid of itx100000.
I can't see how this is a buff to anyone. It's a rare occurrence, and only really happens if you basically attack at the same time with only a few milliseconds to spare.Two 2h my old friends with 3+ german greatswords, one with 9ath and 5ps, one with 9ps and 5ath, the guy with 9ath outfootworks the str stacker and hits first taking 10-50% of his hp, the 9ps stacker hits right afterwards uninterrupted and oneshots the agimy old friend.
I can't see how people would use this effectively on purpose.
Just my two cents.
Two 2h my old friends with 3+ german greatswords, one with 9ath and 5ps, one with 9ps and 5ath, the guy with 9ath outfootworks the str stacker and hits first taking 10-50% of his hp, the 9ps stacker hits right afterwards uninterrupted and oneshots the agimy old friend.
I can't see how this is a buff to anyone. It's a rare occurrence, and only really happens if you basically attack at the same time with only a few milliseconds to spare.Which is 80% of my longspear stabs at close range, great change!
If it stays, wouldn't bother me. When it gets removed, won't bother me. But apparently liking something doesn't go down well in this community, I should have just jumped on the QQ bandwagon...
Which is 80% of my longspear stabs at close range, great change!
I don't see how this wouldn't be a bug, if this was a conscious decision then I am revoking my investment.
Well thats 1 more reason to stay in rageball then. That kinda fucks up the 2h GS+KUYAK+spammers ... normally the fights was decided by slightly better footwork and timings between good players.... now it seems like the worse player can win aswell.
First the cavalry lag from bumps and touches , now this ... this kills lancer 1v1 fights as a final nail in the coffin after the angle nerf for lances.
wtf donkeyteam ?
From a realistic point of view, it sounds good.
But gameplay-wise, it sounds bad... or at least, like some said, the "2nd" hit should be possible only if its like 50ms away from the first, and it does half damage.
Oh shush you! You would be infavour of this Mr 36+ Str! :P Now when people finally mange to hit you it wont matter because you will just hit them, knock em down then finished them before they stand up. Now fighting people like you and b0nk is going to be even more annoying! :?
I like it and it makes absolutely sense from realism point of view - why in gods name would I stop a swing in mid-air, which already gathered momentun?!you are long mauler nubert, nuff said
makes my build kinda obsolete though XD
Liking things is not bad, but this is basically a massive nerf to all MELEE classes, xbows still cancel your attack when you get hit along with arrows yet melee weapons don't. This is nerfing melee nothing more.
From a realistic point of view, it sounds good.
But gameplay-wise, it sounds bad... or at least, like some said, the "2nd" hit should be possible only if its like 50ms away from the first, and it does half damage.
If it stays, wouldn't bother me. When it gets removed, won't bother me. But apparently liking something doesn't go down well in this community, I should have just jumped on the QQ bandwagon...
To be honest it's an unintended feature (leftover from tests), but I kinda like it. Will probably try to tweak it a little instead of removing it immediately.
you are long mauler nubert, nuff said
To be honest it's an unintended feature (leftover from tests), but I kinda like it. Will probably try to tweak it a little instead of removing it immediately.While you are at it, add damage for succesful chamber and add falling down chance while backpaddeling :!:
All this change does is buff armor crutches.
To be honest it's an unintended feature (leftover from tests), but I kinda like it. Will probably try to tweak it a little instead of removing it immediately.I've not tried it out but it sounds like a very good feature, would make the way I kill players who are better than I a little less potent.
Right now it's 40ms max and full damage, in the next test update it will be 30ms max and 50% to 65% damage.
There's that, but it's not the only downside to it. It also makes combat less skill based, reduces combat depth, encourages spamming and slows down the game.
Well thats 1 more reason to stay in rageball then. That kinda fucks up the good players... normally the fights was decided by slightly better footwork and timings between good players.... now it seems like the worse player can win aswell.
Ivani4 will be pleased.
Right now it's 40ms max and full damage, in the next test update it will be 30ms max and 50% to 65% damage.
cmp this is retarded, like the turn nerf except worse (not in gameplay terms, but in shittyness) all it does is reward spamming and reward str builds. and i'm a spamming str build. even at 50% damage your average 2h/pole str build will out-damage a 1h or even agi 2h. there's no reason not to go absolute max strength with this change in.
I still agree the event is too common but its not that unbalanced as anyone seems to think.It is unbalanced because it's too common. Since yesterday it happened to my 4 times that both, my opponent and I, died doing swing at the same time.
Seems just like another reason to play on eu_Fixed.24 instead.
There's that, but it's not the only downside to it. It also makes combat less skill based, reduces combat depth, encourages spamming and slows down the game.
Wait so this doesn't work when both players are alive ?
It's only a free hit for the one that dies ?
There are people who would rather constantly complain in the forum under disguise of "balance" than try to adapt to the changes, just because it is easier to rant and make them look like a victim of "nerfing".
There are people who would rather constantly complain in the forum under disguise of "balance" than try to adapt to the changes, just because it is easier to rant and make them look like a victim of "nerfing".
I'm kinda inbetween of how I feel about it. I only had it happen like 2 times so all good. I guess if it's too often it could cause some problems.
Just tweak it so it's rare and all is good, imho
Srsly I'm already a poor girl running around with that pink/white dress my +1 felt hat and my woolen hose and as weapon I've got a wooden stick and this fuckn change nerfed me to hell with my wooden stick I was able to kill the most enemies in 1v1
even though I had to block sometimes 4 hits in a row of them and now this makes it impossible for me to survive I have to perma block and cant attack anymore
as well is my class nerfed when I play in full armor (swashbuckler)
srsly remove it or cya crpg I'll get my backpack
So you are saying that it is normal for someone with 0 repair gear to kill a medium armor and good weapons?
So you are saying that it is normal for someone with 0 repair gear to kill a medium armor and good weapons?Back in the days it was about skill and I had the needed skill to perform fine with an equipment that is a way worse than the one pf your opponent now they can simply spam me to death
Basically, you are threatening to leave if they don't buff your stick build or your 1h pro build. You nerfed your own builds first, so I don't think you have a right to complain about recent changes.Not buff, rather unnerf.
So you are saying that it is normal for someone with 0 repair gear to kill a medium armor and good weapons?
Only reason that someone with a stick can kill better equipped players is the outdated Warband blocking system. If the game was any more advanced, the stick guy would had no chance.
BTW these are the kind of players I was talking about, who cry all the time and threaten to leave if they don't have it their way. Grow up.
p.s. There is no swashbuckling class, get a shield
cmp this is retarded, like the turn nerf except worse (not in gameplay terms, but in shittyness) all it does is reward spamming and reward str builds. and i'm a spamming str build. even at 50% damage your average 2h/pole str build will out-damage a 1h or even agi 2h. there's no reason not to go absolute max strength with this change in.This, it's a fuck up, take it like a man and remove it. It shits on the base mechanics of the entire combat system and adds randomness. What is next, a 30% chance of a block not working?
don't sit and try to justify it, don't get drawn into your own fucked up justifications about how the change is actually for the better (see: turn nerf), just revert it and move on.
Fuck no. Fuma is a good player but when someone with a stick can win most 1 vs 1 duels against a mid-heavy armored opponent, that just tells me that something is terribly wrong with melee system. I welcome any change that nerfs the endless blocking marathon wtih 0 slot weapons.A 1v1 fight should be determined by which player plays better during that fight. Minute-long blocking matches suck, but hit trading is not a good way to handle that.
Thank you again devs for this feature. More realism is welcome any time.
Hope that stamina is the next one...
This system rewards better equipment players at nice and realistic way. You hit me before - yes, but my hit that coming to you (1ms after) will not magically disappear - you will get that hit without a question.
That is great improvement for realism melee combat.
WHO WILL WIN HERE ???
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I sense no balls behind argumentProof, nerf practice sword.
I guess we will never find out for sure because nobody would dare to put their life in danger by fighting a sword guy with a stick, regardless of their skill
Well, this does add a lot more realism. And adapting to this change is quite easy, just rely on your teammates and gang more instead of trusting on your 1v1 timing skills :D that shit is for duel servers anyway.Adapt my ass. Here's how i am supposed to adapt as lancer cav for example - AVOID OTHER CAVALRY . Cause a couched lance vs well timed and placed lance thrust attack now results in a double hit. Removes the skill factor even more (i thought that was impossible) from cav fights.
But I agree that with 40ms these double hits are happening a bit too often. And/or maybe make the damage reduce linearly till it hits 0 at the mark of 40 or 30 ms. This ofc effects a lot on the timecap since most hits will start to glance once they've lost 75% of their damage.
= skillYou fool, that's exactly my point. Before this idiotic change, the thrust attack would've interrupted the couch.
Are you saying that dueling lancers will ALWAYS end in both players dying? If not, than you need a "well timed and placed lance thrust attack" or a better one.You're just talking out of your ass now.
Just like you. You missed to comment the part about lance to arrow comparison.
Apparantely cmp is not everbody because he likes it, so do I and so do other people.
And go ahead with the mauler build, I don't give a shit. Make an archer alt and cav alt while you are there, because those are also some troublesome builds.
I can guarantee you that you won't be playing that mauler build for long, because there is NO best build in cRPG.
But when everybody says it's bad
Matter of fact is, this change will force you to play more carefully, but "careful" is a word not enlisted in hero dictionary, so I can understand the rage.
And you did?
Yes. It is THAT easy to sit on top of the scoreboard in cRPG right now. Please...
But you comment how I didn't do it? Just take it to PM if you want to make it personal.
Nobody actually attempted to do this. It is only what you THINK will happen.
Thank you again devs for this feature. More realism is welcome any time.Retarded realism sperg go fuck yourself, from now on horsebumps shall onehit you btw.
Hope that stamina is the next one...
This system rewards better equipment players at nice and realistic way. You hit me before - yes, but my hit that coming to you (1ms after) will not magically disappear - you will get that hit without a question.
That is great improvement for realism melee combat.
WHO WILL WIN HERE ???
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I'm mixed on this. Yes it seems like a great advantage for strength heavy chars. But I can't even count how many times I got hit with a crossbow quarrel in the leg as my lance is extended and was a millisecond from hitting the horse crossbowman and it interrupts me. If my lance has the inertia and is about to hit your throat, your quarrel in my leg isn't going to stop the lance from severing your neck :P
Retarded realism sperg go fuck yourself, from now on horsebumps shall onehit you btw.
Thank you for your immature insults on forum. Generally the people are different, and forum is here so we can discus things without insulting each other.Please add starvation if you dont pay food upkeep. Add disease and sickness, if you're unlucky your character may start with a bad stomach, making you move at 50% speed and only doing 50% dmg. If you're really unlucky, you get the black death and just fall down dead at the beginning of the round. REALISM IS SO MUCH FUN!!!
There is no post where Kulin or me insults other players here.
For me - More Realism = More Fun.
For me - More Realism = More Fun.
No, maybe we should just go out with a big sword and start cutting people down :S
As I was mentioning before on irc, changes towards realism are inevitable in gaming world.
10 years ago, if you suggested aiming down the sights of a weapon, people would tell you to join the army irl. But today, any FPS with crosshair aiming would probably fail.
Not only that, but you are playing a more realistic version of native, and you complain about realism? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
Realism is pretty wide term and relative to individual perception.
You forgot to mention that it slows down the game and makes it less skill based.
No, maybe we should just go out with a big sword and start cutting people down :S
As I was mentioning before on irc, changes towards realism are inevitable in gaming world.
10 years ago, if you suggested aiming down the sights of a weapon, people would tell you to join the army irl. But today, any FPS with crosshair aiming would probably fail.
Not only that, but you are playing a more realistic version of native, and you complain about realism? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
Realism is pretty wide term and relative to individual perception.
You forgot to mention that it slows down the game and makes it less skill based.
Well, I think it actually speeds up the game since everyone will just be mashing attack as fast as they can. "Less skill based" to me means more "WoW-like", i.e. two players square off and queue up their best attacks, whoever has the best gear wins the fight.
So when will you be adding classes? I want to be a paladin, or maybe a druid!
That was sarcasm. It's easy to say that this change favors armor, strength and crushthrough (because you survive more and hit harder), but you forget that armor lowers your effective weapon proficiency, high strength means that you have lower weapon proficiency and crushthrough weapons are slow. The "second" hit isn't that useful if you are too slow to pull it off.
That was sarcasm. It's easy to say that this change favors armor, strength and crushthrough (because you survive more and hit harder), but you forget that armor lowers your effective weapon proficiency, high strength means that you have lower weapon proficiency and crushthrough weapons are slow. The "second" hit isn't that useful if you are too slow to pull it off.
Try using it against someone like Hetman or Quatal of the Greys. You won't do shit because of how much they will spam your every attack with 1h.
You haven't played this game in a long time and it shows.
Gameplay>Realism.
That is all.
What is the attack speed difference in ms between a player with 130WPF and a 90 speed weapon and a player with 175WPF and a 96 speed weapon (assuming 2h right swing)?
Try using it against someone like Hetman or Quatal of the Greys. You won't do shit because of how much they will spam your every attack with 1h.
LOL :D You haven't played mauler too much, have you?Even with my 1h morningstar alt (slower than gmaul) with 0ath the average grey with a scimitar and a shield couldn't spam me.
They are the only ones pose a treat to maulers. But with some proper footwork you can avoid range of their left swing spam and hit them after, killing them or knocking them down. And they are threat only to me, because I don't wear head armor. If I had some plate helmet they would die most of the time.Haven't seen b0nk enough to judge but Skono is quite decent.
Out of all strength crutchers you can see on servers, only Butan is skilled because he chambers often and knows when to strike to avoid blocks. Dudes like Skono and b0nk are literally crutching on gear, they are average melee fighters at best. Butan is deadly even in light armor, Skono and b0nk aren't.
I am Batman.Pro tip: You have insane retarded 2h sideswing anims and a shitload of blunt dmg, sideswing and you cannot be spammed if you got the least bit of skill.
Yeah theorycrafting balance doesn't work and thats why this, the turning change ect are all bad.
Play the game or get someone else who does to do changes, instead of the theorycraftings of someone mediocre at the game.
That was sarcasm. It's easy to say that this change favors armor, strength and crushthrough (because you survive more and hit harder), but you forget that armor lowers your effective weapon proficiency, high strength means that you have lower weapon proficiency and crushthrough weapons are slow. The "second" hit isn't that useful if you are too slow to pull it off.
Just answer the question.
Just answer the question.
That was sarcasm. It's easy to say that this change favors armor, strength and crushthrough (because you survive more and hit harder), but you forget that armor lowers your effective weapon proficiency, high strength means that you have lower weapon proficiency and crushthrough weapons are slow. The "second" hit isn't that useful if you are too slow to pull it off.This is not true. After they block they will often try to overhead you, due to crushthrough your options are either to spam and interrupt them or to avoid their hit altogether. Going with spamming is pretty reliable, but it does involve hitting just a little before their hit will land. Which with this brilliant change could mean that his 40b still knocks you in the face due to not actually interrupting him.
this is your problem, CMP, you guys keep 90% of the numbers close to the chest so you're the only person in the thread who could answer that. but numbers don't really matter, the problem is you theorycrafting based on numbers when you don't even play the game, dude. you're assuming only super pro agi players would take advantage of this, in the "real world" the only people who really benefit are str builds - ordinarily if they get outplayed/outswung they'd just take a hit, now if they're banking on an outswing, ssometimes even when they screw it up they'll get a free hit in.
This is not true. After they block they will often try to overhead you, due to crushthrough your options are either to spam and interrupt them or to avoid their hit altogether. Going with spamming is pretty reliable, but it does involve hitting just a little before their hit will land. Which with this brilliant change could mean that his 40b still knocks you in the face due to not actually interrupting him.
How is a STR player taking advantage of this when his attack animation is slower than yours plus the entire double hit window? Are you trying to hit him long after he started his attack and you expect that to work? Is he turning into his swing at the right time and you aren't?
What if maybe you were just outplayed?
How is a STR player taking advantage of this when his attack animation is slower than yours plus the entire double hit window? Are you trying to hit him long after he started his attack and you expect that to work? Is he turning into his swing at the right time and you aren't?
What if maybe you were just outplayed?
How is a STR player taking advantage of this when his attack animation is slower than yours plus the entire double hit window? Are you trying to hit him long after he started his attack and you expect that to work? Is he turning into his swing at the right time and you aren't?
What if maybe you were just outplayed?
Depends on how much moving around and turning into swings those people do.
How is a STR player taking advantage of this when his attack animation is slower than yours plus the entire double hit window? Are you trying to hit him long after he started his attack and you expect that to work? Is he turning into his swing at the right time and you aren't?Outplayed by hitting str player first...
What if maybe you were just outplayed?
This isn't about M:BG. Just saying.
cmp, do you think it's good that both players take damage when one player times their attack better than the other?
Its about how devs thinks about combat mechanics.
Dont wonder why the devs dont give patchnote or directly discuss with the playerbase when they get flamed and insulted like this each time the game is changed a little bit :|This is a little bit for you, it's a huge bit for people with lower armor ratings and agi builds, but eh, fuck, I barely ever set foot into the cesspit known as EU_1 so I'm fine.
not to mention the fact that lancing or couching someone rarely kills them :D i can only play lancer on NA1 now.Btw I agree that this probably makes lancing really funny.. Hit them and they still destory you because normally its so close anyway
my shielder char keeps dying to being hit after i hit and my pole arm char gets shot to hell. think its siege and na1 from now on :(
This is a dispicable nerf to skill... Being just a tad faster, having slightly better footwork so your hit lands first... Totally useless now since you'll get hit now anyway :(
btw stop with the realism bs :D
If people can see the reasoning behind it they might be more supportive, even if the feature doesn't end up working out as intended.
Its an accidental feature deemed to have potential testing value. Generally the goal is to give at least a week before conclusions are reached. Personally I don't care for it, but who knows, it might have some merit.
The most interesting fact is that you and like hundreds of other Einsteins who keep saying things like "screw realism" & "balance > realism" keep playing this exact game precisely because its as close to realistic medieval combat simulation as it gets. Yes, its engine is limited (is it Taleworlds fault that none of these "Indies" could do any better during the last 2-3 years and they all think they can do it on their own, without taking the best of Warband and expanding/improving it but they rather make completely new pieces of crap) and there is tons of things in this game you could question (which will hopefully get "fixed" with this new project that you're all so eager about) but its the best there is atm: no elves, no magic, no fantasy bullshit in its core. Try denying that fact and I'll (without a shred of remorse) call every single one of you a moron, which you undoubtedly will turn out to be. Just saying. :wink:
The most interesting fact is that you and like hundreds of other Einsteins who keep saying things like "screw realism" & "balance > realism" keep playing this exact game precisely because its as close to realistic medieval combat simulation as it gets. Yes, its engine is limited (is it Taleworlds fault that none of these "Indies" could do any better during the last 2-3 years and they all think they can do it on their own, without taking the best of Warband and expanding/improving it but they rather make completely new pieces of crap) and there is tons of things in this game you could question (which will hopefully get "fixed" with this new project that you're all so eager about) but its the best there is atm: no elves, no magic, no fantasy bullshit in its core. Try denying that fact and I'll (without a shred of remorse) call every single one of you a moron, which you undoubtedly will turn out to be. Just saying. :wink:I play the game for the melee mechanics. Personally I could not care less if we are wielding swords and bows or light sabers and laser guns. At any rate, Warband is about as much of a simulation as Ace Combat is.
an other ninja patch from devs
no comunication
somethime i think they take us for sheeps
Personally I could not care less if we are wielding swords and bows or light sabers and laser guns.
Riveting tale chap, with one small detail you forgot to mention: I don't think even you believe in the pile of crap that you just wroteI played SWJK:JA (which was also quite popular for a long time) for ages before I got into Warband. Medieval, futuristic, modern day, or stick figures - I don't care. The setting is just window dressing for the mechanics.
I played SWJK:JA (which was also quite popular for a long time) for ages before I got into Warband. Medieval, futuristic, modern day, or stick figures - I don't care. The setting is just window dressing for the mechanics.
..no magic, no fantasy bullshit in its core...
It's a shame I didn't use training lessons to make that 42/3 build.
Is it just me or this community's feedback consists of demanding while having zero respect towards developers for they are doing?Now if cmp would try this a couple of days he would come to the conclusion it's bad, sadly he barely plays the game. Which means we have to try it for him. If he doesn't take the criticism seriously of an entire community except you and Sagar, then the dev's attitude is a lot more worrying than the community's. Zero respect for the community.
The demanding and hate has especially become noticeable after the recent investment plan worked out. I guess people think that, by investing money into the next game, they also get to dictate development of cRPG and judge behavior or developers. This is hardly a way of "A gentleman and a Scholar".
Well, I am glad I am not on the elitist bandwagon that will inevitably ruin this mod by trying to judge every change only trough "best crpg players" perspective. I am also glad I got to see how mod development worked in oldschool days where every new feature for your favorite game was greeted with a smile(out of respect, because without developers, you could not change anything yourself), and where people actually tried something out for a couple of day instead of instantly writing off what they THINK is bad.
Is it just me or this community's feedback consists of demanding while having zero respect towards developers for they are doing?
The demanding and hate has especially become noticeable after the recent investment plan worked out. I guess people think that, by investing money into the next game, they also get to dictate development of cRPG and judge behavior or developers. This is hardly a way of "A gentleman and a Scholar".
Well, I am glad I am not on the elitist bandwagon that will inevitably ruin this mod by trying to judge every change only trough "best crpg players" perspective. I am also glad I got to see how mod development worked in oldschool days where every new feature for your favorite game was greeted with a smile(out of respect, because without developers, you could not change anything yourself), and where people actually tried something out for a couple of day instead of instantly writing off what they THINK is bad.
I am also glad I got to see how mod development worked in oldschool days where every new feature for your favorite game was greeted with a smile(out of respect, because without developers, you could not change anything yourself), and where people actually tried something out for a couple of day instead of instantly writing off what they THINK is bad.
Are you talking about development of cRPG? I don't know since when you're here but believe me, slot & upkeep patch wasn't "greeted with a smile". Current discussion is nothing in comparison to shitstorm which that patch brought on.
What I meant was the changes to game mechanics, I would've thought that it was implied since 20 pages are about game mechanics, not about models. But, being vicious you are, you took the opportunity to point out how I am talking about EVERY CHANGE IN WHOLE CRPG. Again, very gentlemanly of you. "A snake and a scholar", more appropriate term.
Is it just me or this community's feedback consists of demanding while having zero respect towards developers for they are doing?
The demanding and hate has especially become noticeable after the recent investment plan worked out. I guess people think that, by investing money into the next game, they also get to dictate development of cRPG and judge behavior or developers. This is hardly a way of "A gentleman and a Scholar".
Well, I am glad I am not on the elitist bandwagon that will inevitably ruin this mod by trying to judge every change only trough "best crpg players" perspective. I am also glad I got to see how mod development worked in oldschool days where every new feature for your favorite game was greeted with a smile(out of respect, because without developers, you could not change anything yourself), and where people actually tried something out for a couple of day instead of instantly writing off what they THINK is bad.
Remove upkeep, more grind ! Never forget 2010 !
I like everything about slots though. And I got over my nostalgia of 2010 cRPG.
No upkeep? [...]It would be an armor stacking fest.
But of course, this community is horrible. We criticize the dev team for everything immediately without discriminating. I mean everytime they try to add armors we create 5 threads saying those armors don't fit in the time period of cRPG. We also said "no it's crap" back when Ozin literally created rageball from scratch and each time Paul improved it. Same thing with DTV or even Stronghold and adding CtF. For cRPG players, all changes are bad. That's what you are saying ? What you are implying is that we just don't try to analyse and project what the effects of whatever change happened are going to be ? I mean it's very clear we are disgrateful of every single thing the dev team has done.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
It's not like that and you know it pretty well. The oldmy old friends are the ones that are the most vocal about gameplay tweaks they think are bad because they suppose having sufficient knowledge of the gameplay to know what the consequences will be. All the fuzz about this particular (and honestly, minor) issue is only greater because 1) It's nearly as popular as the turn rate nerf right now, and the turn rate nerf is still in despite everything that has been said about it, and that the "test period" has long finished. 2) cmp trolled with his first response on the topic, yet the donkey crew is expected to become more serious about community feedback in the future. I mean this is literally written on the M:BG page. Most of these people complaining love the game and would hate to see it become less good than it is, that is why reactions can go full retard even with minor issues.
Right now if I had to name two issues with gameplay elements that were added to cRPG, I would say : 1) turn rate 2) double hits. Those two are for me "fully bad" changes, that is, they don't bring anything good and it's not a matter of weighting the different effects. I don't really like the armor soak/reduce changes either but that one has upsides.
What about those who respecced to 39/3 win build?
Great!
Can they take the turnnerf down with it too?
Pretty please with sugar on top?
No, but they are working on making it dependant on weapon length and weight. I hope you're not a mauler or a piker.You mean it is going to be less for all the other classes, which I am okay with, or do you mean it is going to be even worse for these specific classes?
Both.Epic win :mrgreen:
No, but they are working on making it dependant on weapon length and weight. I hope you're not a mauler or a piker.
No, but they are working on making it dependant on weapon length and weight. I hope you're not a mauler or a piker.
Both.I'm all up for this , although i must admit i'm a bit worried about the shorter 2h weapons in the long run. Katana and longsword currently can do a tremendous amounts damage . This change might just turn them into a total cookie-cutter choice out there.
I'm all up for this , although i must admit i'm a bit worried about the shorter 2h weapons in the long run. Katana and longsword currently can do a tremendous amounts damage . This change might just turn them into a total cookie-cutter choice out there.
We'll have a more sophisticated turnrate handling next patch.(click to show/hide)
No shield weight in :(
There is calculation for dagger and with no doubt shield will affect turn rate more than dagger.
If you include shield weight, you might as well include armor weight. Neither is swinging with your weapon, and both are close to your body.
If you include shield weight, you might as well include armor weight. Neither is swinging with your weapon, and both are close to your body.
13-0.18*25-0.04*(245-140) = 8.5
Muwhahaha
So practically no weapons will turn at native speed. :|
All these changing turn speeds though, seem problematic for someone who switches weapon a lot.
Situation on EU1 : 50% less cav.
Invasion of tincan, mauler, great axes etc.
Wouldn't you want it that way though?No, not really. These differences aren't subtle. If you pick a up a different weapon it might turn half as fast and your aim is completely screwed.
It is good that 1h shielders get a buff because they really needed one. Poor guys rarely get 10th valour in a row on siege and they rule strat anyways.
I especially love when 1 shielder is able to hold block and walk backwards without taking damage from 3 guys that attack him constantly. Also got to mention it is a melee class that is hardest to gank, but also impossible to defend against when shielders gank someone else.
How about taking some damage over that shield after so many attacks?
One hand weapons are inferior then 2handers and polearms, as it should be. The shield is a massive advantage though in every battle situation and its kind of OP ezmode the way it works. Invincible RMB forcefield to everything that almost never breaks with no effect on your swingspeed or damage.
Wouldn't mind seeing the buffs to some one handed weapons, but they should come to nerfs against shields themselves or it will be imbalanced.
One hand weapons are inferior then 2handers and polearms, as it should be. The shield is a massive advantage though in every battle situation and its kind of OP ezmode the way it works. Invincible RMB forcefield to everything that almost never breaks with no effect on your swingspeed or damage.
Wouldn't mind seeing the buffs to some one handed weapons, but they should come to nerfs against shields themselves or it will be imbalanced.
Then, when a shielder wants to actually kill someone, he will have the pleasure of being s-keyed and hiltslashed constantly. Also it is the only unit that is relatively weak to cav even when prepared.You can't s-key and hiltslash. To hiltslash you need to facehug. If you get outspammed as a shielder you are doing something very wrong. My experiences with a 98 speed 1h was that I could spam a lot of people myself. Also, rightswing is greatsword length with a 100+ range 1h.
You can't s-key and hiltslash. To hiltslash you need to facehug.
If you get outspammed as a shielder you are doing something very wrong. My experiences with a 98 speed 1h was that I could spam a lot of people myself.
Also, rightswing is greatsword length with a 100+ range 1h.
1vs1 shielder is at disadvantage because of short range and additional weight.
However, cRPG is not based around dueling, and 1vs1 situations are rare. Even if 1vs1 comes up in battle he can just delay the situation by going defensive until his buddies arrive.
Shielders in siege and battle are especially OP:
- In siege, one shielder vs 20 enemies on flag can stop capturing. Usually they will go undetected for couple of seconds because under flag is real clustefuck, but when they are detected, couple of TK's will occur in the crowd.
- In siege as attackers, shielder rush is most powerful type off attack as they can push to the flag without getting hurt. Clans like HRE and Greys are so good at this that sometimes they will capture the flag in first minute.
- In siege as defenders, shieldwall bonus appears so they can block certain areas with great sucess and take away precious seconds needed for capturing flag.
- In battle, ganking is especially OP with shielders which is fine except that when you try to gank 1 shielder he can retreat with his shield up for quite a while and usually this is enough for someone to come and help them out.
We'll have a more sophisticated turnrate handling next patch.I seriously hope long maul gets finally a damage buff to compensate this - damage output is already a joke compared to pretty much all other weapons. After this overhead will be useless, unless you are on top of a ladder..(click to show/hide)
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With the exception of the Long Voulge and Bill, I think those are pretty good values relative to other weapons. For those two specifically, you could consider dropping their weight by .5kg for the Long Voulge and 1kg for the Bill to arrive at a turn speed of around 8.1 for both weapons.
I seriously hope long maul gets finally a damage buff to compensate this - damage output is already a joke compared to pretty much all other weapons. After this overhead will be useless, unless you are on top of a ladder..Long Maul has always been a joke compared to the Great Maul, to the point that I as a polearmer prefer the Great Maul over the Long Maul. The longer reach has very little use as with the limited turnspeed and the amazingly slow speed, anyone can sidestep his way out.
Shielder is definitely not underpowered compared to 1h or 2h now, it's is going to get a massive buff by the turn rate rework, so I really think shielders have very little to complain about.
1vs1 shielder is at disadvantage because of short range and additional weight.
However, cRPG is not based around dueling, and 1vs1 situations are rare. Even if 1vs1 comes up in battle he can just delay the situation by going defensive until his buddies arrive.
Shielders in siege and battle are especially OP:
Long Maul has always been a joke compared to the Great Maul, to the point that I as a polearmer prefer the Great Maul over the Long Maul. The longer reach has very little use as with the limited turnspeed and the amazingly slow speed, anyone can sidestep his way out.
Even now Long Maul deserves a buff, just compare the stats, it's silly really.
Another point, seeing as looming some items increase the weight, that is kinda disadvantageous with this, but I guess it's temporary until compatibility is broken. I never found more weight that much of advantage anyway, because it slows you down more than it prevents stun.
More weight is actually a huge advantage. You get more knockdowns/chrushtroughs and it is easier to stun other weapons and shields (especially Long Maul uses hold attacks very much).Well, my german poleaxe has no knockdown or crushthrough, so the movement speed decrease is really more important. Stunning weapons used to be somehow removed from the game. I couldn't even stun a wakizashi with a long bardiche, even though I did held overheads. I think that was a bug, lately stunning seems to work again.
This turn rate formula is temporary, as soon as we break compatibility with the old client we will make it possible to specify turn rate per-weapon. There is no point in adjusting item stats because of the formula.
More weight is actually a huge advantage. You get more knockdowns/chrushtroughs and it is easier to stun other weapons and shields (especially Long Maul uses hold attacks very much).Yes weight increase is important for crushthrough, but it doesn't matter for stun, since long maul is too slow to get advantage of that :P. Altough blocking speed is so slow, that I am often too slow/stunned to block the second swing of several weapons myself, but especially 1h left-swing. Actually I hate fighting good shielders with long maul, when they just turtle I need 4-7 overheads, while they need 2 left-swings to the head.. :rolleyes:
I never claimed shielders get the best KDR, but when there is enough of them, there simply is no counter, they will turn the tide of battle, be it strat, battle or siege.
In siege especially, crowdfarming(holding block while in close proximity to combat) gets them valour more often than others who have to fight to get theirs.
I see. So when you break compatibility, you plan on dispensing with the formula and manually adjusting every weapon's turn speed? Or will you only be doing that for weapons that are outliers under the formula? Well, either way, I'm rather excited for this change and glad that you guys considered trying it. It should really help to make each weapon feel like it handles a little differently from other weapons of the same type, which is a good thing in my book.
by Fasader
Another example of theory vs practice. Axe or maul? Don't be ridiculous. They do work if you manage to hit a single shielder 4-5 times, and what is left after the shield breaks? A class that many play today, a "swashbuckler" with full hp. Also, you can't really concentrate only on one shielder when your whole team starts retreating and shielders gank those who keep fighting. Shield in masses is very OP, it is not even that much of teamplaying, it is just moving together and breaking enemy line of defense.
For example, I don't see a team consisted of 1h & hoplite shielders losing vs whole team of "insert any class here".
NA bad, NA don't understand.(click to show/hide)
So from what you're saying...this is how fights go where you play:Sig worthy
A team of shielders stands in a line, hits RMB and moves forward. Your team screams, "They have hoplites and we don't know how to block down!" D:
Your team runs away, leaving you to get beat down by 50 shielders.
Sounds more like fail teamplay on your side. Also, I never knew that a swashbuckler was a fearsome opponent. I know their short reach, low damage and susceptibility to stuns is a huge advantage and all, but still.
All the classes are pretty balanced. Your idea that shielders are like some rampaging Mongol horde is not only ridiculous...but kind of odd.
NA bad, NA don't understand.
Shielders push, force the enemies to block sideways with ye old leftswing, hoplites stab. Shielder with pike/hoplite/longspear support is amazingly strong.
Every class is extremly strong with pike/hoplite/longspear support. :rolleyes:None can apply pressure like shielders. For all you 'shielders are underpowered' people I am stf-ing one and I am having x5 forever. By supporting pokers on my team I have an incredible effect on the chances of victory for my team, and even if we lose I still get valour due to getting loads of proximity points.
None can apply pressure like shielders. For all you 'shielders are underpowered' people I am stf-ing one and I am having x5 forever.
Edit: I do have some problems with weapons going straight through a held up shield, that is rather weird.
I think the ganking problem comes from lack of friendly fire between shielders. They are able to close in safely without their teammate hitting them in 2 vs 1. With any other melee class, in 2 vs 1 you can often hurt your teammate because of that one guy's footwork action.
1h are up because
Flanged Mace
Iberian Mace
Military Cleaver
Niuweidao
Military Pick
Military Hammer
Arabian Cavalry Sword
Elite Scimitar
Steel Pick
Warhammer
all that weapons are up
knockdown, high blunt dmg and high speed, they need 1/2 hits to kill anyone from horesback when archers laugh when some cav guy hit them to the face with h lance
that is so much worse than 2h polear is...
ou and shield, thrust me every 2hender/polearm love to get shot to the face with arrow that you blocks with shields( no fun at all)
yea buff 1h
Does every single thread have to degenerate into either a weapon class dick-waving match, or an NA vs EU dick-waving match? That got really old over a year ago.
It's pretty common, quite a lot of players learned how to "bypass" the shield with longer pole/2h, you get the impression that guy is right in front of you and the hit should land on your shield, yet it hits your side.
...or an NA vs EU dick-waving match?...
You play a class that has a weapon like Bar Mace and call 1h op? Aren't you using a Bastard Sword all the time btw? :lol:atm danisch and longsword( longsword is op but I use that for soo long time)
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Heaven forbid those 5-7 points spent in shield that could be used elsewhere can have a use every now and then.. Shields have a healthy number of disadvantages that prevents them from being too strong in any way, yet unique.
This. Shields in terms of skill points cost about the same as cavalry, plus one or two weapon slots and more weight. One deserves to get an advantage out of this. Or maybe crutching on IF isn't good enough.
According to recent chrush-through nerf and the upcomming turn-rate adjustment it will become a lot easier for them.. 1h damage (especially knockdown weapons and picks) is already op in my opinion and will need adjustment in the future.
Fighting one shielder is quite easy yeah, but when outnumbered I'd prefer fighting two 2h stab-heroes or whatever than two shielders.
Reasons for this are their fast (often unblockable) attacks, the forcefields of the shields, which result often in my swings being blocked before I can actually swing, no space to actually swing (on siege) while they can spam like crasy without having to fear their swing will get stuck in a wall.
Also as someone relying on chamberblocking, shielder are hardest to fight, because the timeframe is due to the length/speed of the 1h weapons very short, in many situations it is simply impossible to chamberblock, which buggers me the most..
It is faster to use a 1 hander without the shield than it is to use the shield because you have to lower your shield before swinging (if your shield is down it is the same, but then you wouldn't be blocking either). It isn't unusual to put the shield on your back when going up against a fast spammer so you can get your own hits in rather than simply blocking. Sure, defense is better, but offense is not.
This is...actually untrue. Having a shield has no affect on your swing speed. I tested this a looooong time ago. The only reason to put your shield away when fighting a fast spammer is if you are using a slow shield. A majority of shields block slower than if you were manually blocking.
No, it is true if you are holding your shield up. You have to raise it and lower it and that slows things down slightly. If you aren't holding it up, yes, it is the same amount of time. But then you aren't blocking with it. When you don't have a shield it is faster to go from swing to block to swing again.
At least that's my recent experience.
No, it is true if you are holding your shield up. You have to raise it and lower it and that slows things down slightly. If you aren't holding it up, yes, it is the same amount of time. But then you aren't blocking with it. When you don't have a shield it is faster to go from swing to block to swing again.
At least that's my recent experience.
Why you shouldn't be posting about game mechanics and balance, you literally don't know what you are talking about and are making shit up
This simply isn't true. It is faster to use a 1 hander without the shield than it is to use the shield because you have to lower your shield before swinging (if your shield is down it is the same, but then you wouldn't be blocking either).I've played a fair amount of 1h, both with and without a shield. As best I can tell, there doesn't appear to be a difference in attack speed when using one. If there is a difference, it's very subtle.
This thread should die now.