cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:28:35 pm

Title: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:28:35 pm
Wtf happened? Acceleration is now A LOT less. My courser trots around at a tiny speed and is now a perfect target for archers and crossbows. It takes a long time to reach even decent speed.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: ThePoopy on September 16, 2011, 03:29:46 pm
finally
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 03:30:23 pm
yeah, give me a fucking respec...

i want a respec on my looms aswell, good luck playing cavalry in strat...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:31:12 pm
Yup need a respec. I'm not playing cavalry with a horse like this. And tbh...I doubt anyone will pay for a champ courser on market.

A courser is now useless. It's acceleration was already down, and with all the village/hilly maps it has no hope of getting to full speed.

Edit:

The only way this makes sense is if you add 10x more open plains type maps to rotation so cav actually has a chance to reach close to full speed.

Right now there is no reason to use courser ect. May as well just use a rouncey.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Paul on September 16, 2011, 03:36:25 pm
Quick, sell your loomed horses to me for an apple&egg before WSE changes are balanced.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 03:38:48 pm
well why change it in the first place ??
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:39:14 pm
Quick, sell your loomed horses to me for an apple&egg before WSE changes are balanced.

Shouldn't you guys test this before loading them onto servers?

These are things which would be obvious to balance by just loading up your own server. No need to use us for it.

But regardless, courser speed is now near enough the same as a rouncey used to be.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Brrrak on September 16, 2011, 03:40:12 pm
Gotta make sure the archers can still shoot down horsies, so they decreased the acceleration, I bet.  :mrgreen:

The wonderful world of balance.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 03:43:12 pm
Shouldn't you guys test this before loading them onto servers?

You are the test.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Brrrak on September 16, 2011, 03:44:07 pm
You are the test.

Will public outcry over elderly, crippled horses change the decision to nerf acceleration (if it's there, which it seems to be)?
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 03:45:07 pm
well i just hope this gets fixed, and soon...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 03:45:27 pm
It's not a nerf, it's a shift.

Which means that some stats gets lowered, some get increased.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Brrrak on September 16, 2011, 03:45:46 pm
well i just hope this gets fixed, and soon...
^ - I rely on the speed bonus to chop the horsies down.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:46:20 pm
You are the test.

Yes I know. But surely you guys must do some kind of testing else you'd load up every little change onto the servers? This is something which would be blatantly obvious by just testing it yourself.

Fact is horses now look like they are going the same speed as those I see ridden by middle aged, middle class women around my village. And they still go down to arrows bloody easily.

Edit:

Heard some stuff from Chagan so I guess I shall just put away my horse until you guys manage to balance this properly.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: marco1391 on September 16, 2011, 03:47:50 pm
It's not a nerf, it's a shift.

Which means that some stats gets lowered, some get increased.
meh could we know which stats got increased?becouse it seems that it's an all around nerf
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 03:49:09 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:49:28 pm
^ that would make sense.

The issue I see though is that HP would have to be increased a lot. Otherwise the speed nerf means archers can just sit there and pump arrows into you as much as they like (which they are doing right now) and you can do bugger all about it.

It's a huge archer buff against cav.

It also means if cav is caught in infantry, they are swamped and can't get away easily.

On EU1 whilst I'm writing this btw.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 03:50:41 pm
polearm rearing removal

in b4 polearm lobby whine
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 03:51:44 pm
Cav and archery both nerfed? Good times, good times all around.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Brrrak on September 16, 2011, 03:51:52 pm
I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 03:52:09 pm
in b4 polearm lobby whine

damn, 2nd
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 03:53:57 pm
Cav and archery both nerfed? Good times, good times all around.

1h+shield speed halved.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 03:54:38 pm
1h+shield speed halved.

If this is true greys are fucked xD
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 03:55:45 pm
1h+shield speed halved.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:57:19 pm
Haha if that's true and not trolling then 2h will be having a field day.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 16, 2011, 03:58:17 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


sometimes im wondering how do you talk with others in RL where you cannot use all these gifs.. hmmmm
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Brrrak on September 16, 2011, 03:58:33 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 03:58:44 pm
sometimes im wondering how do you talk with others in RL where you cannot use all these gifs.. hmmmm

There's this thing in real life called expressions.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 03:59:29 pm
alright devs, i see you're hard at work, but what's the plan with horses, to return them to how they were or with reduced stats ??
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:02:30 pm
Reduced stats are currently painful. From stop to start with my courser a 1h managed to get 3 hits on it so it was down to 90% health. Lucky it wasn't a 2h.

However, I have noticed for some reason there's a fair difference on speed between my champ courser and every other horse. Seems they are A LOT slower than me. But it still a major buff for archers and inf against cav.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: SquishMitten on September 16, 2011, 04:03:05 pm
just when i trade my +3 pick for a +3 courser lol
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Odion on September 16, 2011, 04:03:32 pm
you lot wanted nurfs now you are getting it lol
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Mtemtko on September 16, 2011, 04:03:58 pm
Crpg devs are evil scientists, we are guinea pigs, crpg BETA is the labratory, why should they test it themselves? :D
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 04:04:22 pm
Reduced stats are currently painful. From stop to start with my courser a 1h managed to get 3 hits on it so it was down to 90% health. Lucky it wasn't a 2h.

However, I have noticed for some reason there's a fair difference on speed between my champ courser and every other horse. Seems they are A LOT slower than me. But it still a major buff for archers and inf against cav.

Hey cheer up. You could interpret this change as a buff. I heard you're good at interpreting.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 04:04:48 pm
you lot wanted nurfs now you are getting it lol

1.    Nurf
   
Slang for Vagina or cunt
"It's Nurf or Nothin"

Yes, I want them
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 04:05:28 pm
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.

Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Arrowblood on September 16, 2011, 04:07:37 pm
So this game become a pro game. And in a year are only 50 crpg masters fighting.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 04:09:15 pm
So this game become a pro game. And in a year are only 50 crpg masters fighting.

That's a nice slope you got there, looks a bit slippery.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 04:09:47 pm
Is this nerf already in place? Horses do seem a little slower but hasn't really affected my playstyle. I usually slow down for most stabs though, maneuvering seems just a tad more sluggish but that could be my imagination. I'm sure cav will addapt just like they did to other changes. This is prob way more of a nerf for 1h cav than for lancers though.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 04:11:11 pm
This is prob way more of a nerf for 1h cav than for lancers though.

Quick! make lance rotation 20% max
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:13:41 pm
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.

Slower horses = less awareness needed.

The problem is acceleration is now horrible. Even if you kept the same top speeds, there's no point because it's so hard to reach that speed so you actually need a lot less awareness to play.

Instead it seems I now have to weave my horse to avoid arrows. Whereas before I relied on speed (it's a damn courser). I now have to rely on stopping/starting/turning tightly to avoid arrows. Something the Arabian was for. That doesn't take much awareness. No where near as much as needing speed did.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 04:13:50 pm
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

+1 to only that sentence
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:17:53 pm
Seeing as I just died to an epic lag spike:

Did horses get an HP buff already? That courser I just shot down took 6 arrows. Which is unusual even for a champ courser. They usually go down to 3-4.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 04:20:04 pm
Slower horses = less awareness needed.

The problem is acceleration is now horrible. Even if you kept the same top speeds, there's no point because it's so hard to reach that speed so you actually need a lot less awareness to play.

Instead it seems I now have to weave my horse to avoid arrows. Whereas before I relied on speed (it's a damn courser). I now have to rely on stopping/starting/turning tightly to avoid arrows. Something the Arabian was for. That doesn't take much awareness. No where near as much as needing speed did.

Wait, so dodging and weaving arrows takes less awareness than speeding in a practically straight line? Can you explain your reasoning on that one?
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:22:22 pm
Wait, so dodging and weaving arrows takes less awareness than speeding in a practically straight line? Can you explain your reasoning on that one?

Riding at fast speeds meaning avoiding lots of obstacles ect and other cav can catch you off guard faster as well. Whilst you're riding and shooting this is actually quite hard. Arrows are easy to avoid at higher speeds so you don't have to worry about them but you have a hell of a lot more to worry about.

Because arrows are so slow now, you can see them coming from a mile off, so spinning to avoid them isn't very hard.

Bearing in mind I'm talking from an HA perspective.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Frankysan on September 16, 2011, 04:22:54 pm
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
sry i'm shocked, is this buff couching real?the dmg is already so crazy i won't even talk about that, so even u give them +50 dmg on couche no difference.
But please make the horse hard to man when couching, i see arabians making crazy couching arcs with 0 risk and high reward!
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 04:23:32 pm
What i'd like to see:

before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:24:38 pm
What i'd like to see:

before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!

Problem is few maps have flat plains. Most are hilly village maps and you spend a lot of time climbing hills/hunting infantry hiding in villages. So a major shift in map load out would be needed where there were more open, flat areas.

Desert maps are probably the main exception. Those are very good for cav yet still provide good places for infantry.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 04:27:13 pm
Riding at fast speeds meaning avoiding lots of obstacles ect and other cav can catch you off guard faster as well. Whilst you're riding and shooting this is actually quite hard. Arrows are easy to avoid at higher speeds so you don't have to worry about them but you have a hell of a lot more to worry about.

Because arrows are so slow now, you can see them coming from a mile off, so spinning to avoid them isn't very hard.

Bearing in mind I'm talking from an HA perspective.

Welp I never played HA except maybe a couple of rounds of Khergit on native when I first tried out Warband, so my knowledge of HA survival tactics is nil. I'll take your word for it  :D .
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Mtemtko on September 16, 2011, 04:28:59 pm
What i'd like to see:

before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!

That might work for lancers... but it also kills 1h cav completely while at it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:29:39 pm
Welp I never played HA except maybe a couple of rounds of Khergit on native when I first tried out Warband, so my knowledge of HA survival tactics is nil. I'll take your word for it  :D .

Yeah I mean for a lancer maybe higher speeds is easy...I don't know because I've never played it properly  :P

But HA rarely keep looking in front...so higher speeds for HA is a lot more dangerous than lower speeds because you spend a lot of time looking left/behind.

Edit:

It would appear horse speeds increased a bit again after the last server 'crash'.

I also noticed the stat change. Now coursers have a difficulty of 4?
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 04:35:47 pm
It would appear horse speeds increased a bit again after the last server 'crash'.

wat
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:36:32 pm
For some reason my courser is now running twice as fast again as it was on the last map  :|

Edit:

Map change again and now it's slow as.

WTF IS GOING ON?  :|

Also...the problem with this change is I've now noticed it's a lot easier for archers to just aim for the rider rather than the horse, meaning lighter/cheaper armour is not so viable. Whereas it used to be the other way around.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Paul on September 16, 2011, 04:40:00 pm
what server?
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:40:56 pm
what server?

EU1.

It was on a desert map, horse was slow as hell.

Then a village map on a hill type place and horse was back to decent speed, even on hills.

Now on ruins and horse is hellishly slow again even though it's flat ground.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 04:43:55 pm
EU1.

It was on a desert map, horse was slow as hell.

Then a village map on a hill type place and horse was back to decent speed, even on hills.

Now on ruins and horse is hellishly slow again even though it's flat ground.

Well i just got on EU1 and after hearing that its been destroyed and im surprised, I see the acceleration is bad but still playable.

Just dont get stopped otherwise its game over.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:45:24 pm
Well i just got on EU1 and after hearing that its been destroyed and im surprised, I see the acceleration is bad but still playable.

Just dont get stopped otherwise its game over.

Hmm yeah acceleration is bad...but top speed seems to be back up. Whereas on that desert map top speed was nothing.

Don't know if you guys are making changes constantly or what? Because this is getting schizophrenic. It can't seem to make it's mind up.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 04:46:04 pm
Top speed seems to be fine once youve spent 30 seconds getting to it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on September 16, 2011, 04:48:23 pm
Problem is you completly fucked sword cav.

Lance cav can rely on speed and still kill, but lance cav has to use manuverability, which is totaly destryoed with the slow acceleration.

Shame to kill an alternative playstyle...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 04:51:15 pm
yeah, 1 handed cavalry need to be able to accelerate quickly, this sucks, and please, don't buff couching...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 04:52:12 pm
Well HA died off. So same thing will happen to this aswell.

Anything that gets op gets nerfed it will just bring about another class to have its time.

Pitty to have Mount & Blade with out the mount (c) Sambeer
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Torben on September 16, 2011, 04:52:40 pm
What i'd like to see:

before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!


if i understand correctly, you want to make cav harder to use for the average guy,  but still very effective for the trained cavalryman,  hence decimating the over all threat of cav spam,  but without taking the fun out of it.  I am stoked,  thanks a lot.

the one thing i want to see in this game is to make things unique and special,  this is the good step in that direction.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 04:52:55 pm
Well HA died off. So same thing will happen to this aswell.

Anything that gets op gets nerfed it will just bring about another class to have its time.

Pitty to have Mount & Blade with out the mount (c) Sambeer

In all fairness the devs have said they are just testing changes.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 04:53:51 pm
Q_Q Overdriven Q_Q
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 04:55:28 pm
Please overdriven dont get your hopes up, i know your clan is a full cav clan but most changes dont get reverted, just take it on board and change your builds to suit, more riding or just drop cav alltogether.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 05:03:02 pm
VVar's right, at the end of this, there'll definitly be some kind of nerf to cavalry...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on September 16, 2011, 05:03:58 pm
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.

A bystander with a shotgun, shooting down GK hopes and dreams....

Oh and I hope that rearing removal is trolling. A core idea of pretty much any medieval game is spearmen(polearm) beats cav.
Buff horse hp in return for manouver so it isnt a nerf, good. Dont do anything to the other classes. As a seasoned player myself, I can state that everything in this game is balanced imo at the present state.(before horses are being tested on ofc)
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 05:05:01 pm
yeah, i agree, was fine...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 05:09:49 pm
Please overdriven dont get your hopes up, i know your clan is a full cav clan but most changes dont get reverted, just take it on board and change your builds to suit, more riding or just drop cav alltogether.

As wise man once said:

I won't stop until I see your clan on foot, walking :wink:

It's just a matter of time :wink:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Keshian on September 16, 2011, 05:10:23 pm
Seems fine on my cavalry alt using a champion destrier and 7 riding.  I think people way over-relied on excess speed instead of skillful lancing and maneuvering and it will just take them a little while to adjust, just get a little more riding skill and convert more points for an extra point in powerstrike and you are good to go.  More balanced, less easy mode. 

Don't worry about strategus anyway, based on new gold system no one will be buying horses for weeks to come.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 05:13:17 pm
Seems fine on my cavalry alt using a champion destrier and 7 riding.  I think people way over-relied on excess speed instead of skillful lancing and maneuvering and it will just take them a little while to adjust, just get a little more riding skill and convert more points for an extra point in powerstrike and you are good to go.  More balanced, less easy mode. 

Don't worry about strategus anyway, based on new gold system no one will be buying horses for weeks to come.

Destriers were already slow...that's probably why. You're not noticing it so much.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kerrigan on September 16, 2011, 05:16:14 pm
What i'd like to see:

before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!
Too bad a lot of maps have weird buggy grounds so your horse gets slowed down. And too bad that flat plains arent common on EU1. People say that cav is overpowered because oh my gawsh look at the scores they get. We get those kills because of people being unaware and yes we can also win a one on one or two on one but isnt every class supposed to be able to do that? To be honest these are only the skilled cav. Just like the skilled archers, two handers and one handers are on top. No-one whines about Chase being overpowered as a two hander because thats skill. Same should count for cav but no then its the class being overpowered and the rider is just playing easy mode. Seriously try and play cav. See if you can live up to the likes of Leed, Torben, Ujin and Oberyn. Oh and a couch buff is definately not needed.

Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 05:16:25 pm
Seems fine on my cavalry alt using a champion destrier and 7 riding.  I think people way over-relied on excess speed instead of skillful lancing and maneuvering and it will just take them a little while to adjust, just get a little more riding skill and convert more points for an extra point in powerstrike and you are good to go.  More balanced, less easy mode. 

Don't worry about strategus anyway, based on new gold system no one will be buying horses for weeks to come.

Has this been applied to servers other than EU? Unsure if its been done on your side yet.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Keshian on September 16, 2011, 05:17:25 pm
Has this been applied to servers other than EU? Unsure if its been done on your side yet.

NA official servers
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 05:19:27 pm
Too bad a lot of maps have weird buggy grounds so your horse gets slowed down. And too bad that flat plains arent common on EU1.

Yup...it's a pretty useless idea when most maps have almost no flat ground and tons of buildings/fences. Unless there's a huge flood of flat plains maps into EU1 the idea doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 05:19:51 pm
NA official servers

Fair enough im sure pecores will become popular again until its patched in :P
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 16, 2011, 05:23:58 pm
If you want to have cav play only on open plains, put at least 3/4 of the maps in rotation as open plains :S rather than 1/8
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 05:26:28 pm
Fair enough im sure pecores will become popular again until its patched in :P

Going on pecores feels like your horse has jet fuel after EU1, which feels as though your horse is about to pass out drunk.

It's so easy for archers to just shoot you off the horse now. Hardly any are actually aiming for my horse. But I can't take heavier armour because of the nerf to my archery  :evil:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 05:36:32 pm
Just stick on pecores till patch comes, just be ready to change your build.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 05:38:32 pm
ugh I'm an idiot, I've been playing on Pecores all this time, for some reason I thought it was EU 4 XD. So yeah, disregard anything I said before, since it was written under false impressions. I thought there hadn't been that much of a change because there wasn't any XD. The acceleration is pretty terribad, yeah. But I stand by cav getting used to it eventually, even if it doesn't revert or get buffed.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 16, 2011, 05:40:32 pm
just remove cavalry out of the game so all them archers can cry less while they stand on the ledges and get free shots at everyone with their mw longbows and arrows with 9pd to two shot people.. whaa! remove cav cause i cant play it! lol
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: marco1391 on September 16, 2011, 05:41:46 pm
seems like the horse bump multiplicator has been changed from 1 to 1.5 am I right?(I'm not sure it was 1.0)
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 05:45:45 pm
Just tested it, it's ridiculous. Even the idea itself is fail. Doing that will just buff the high maneuver horses even more. And we obviously don't need that. I lanced someone, he blocked and had the time to counterattack  :rolleyes:

Instead of trying to "fix" cavalry in some weird ways, try to "fix" what weapons are anti cav. With the current footmen agi and weapons / cav lance angle and maneuver, nearly half the melee players are indeed anticav, either with a pike or spear (normal) or a 2h sword (seriously wtf...).

The only way to nerf cav properly would be buffing people brains, and I don't see that happening.

Also, a very slight buff to couched lances is needed. I think it's supposed to oneshot anyone, and it doesn't.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 05:47:44 pm
Instead of trying to "fix" cavalry in some weird ways, try to "fix" what weapons are anti cav. With the current footmen agi and weapons / cav lance angle and maneuver, nearly half the melee players are indeed anticav, either with a pike or spear (normal) or a 2h sword (seriously wtf...).

Damn, why did I never think of this?
We will nerf cavalry by removing pikes and long spears! Great idea!
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 05:48:57 pm
Damn, why did I never think of this?
We will nerf cavalry by removing pikes and long spears! Great idea!

No, horses should die seeing the pike, but 2h swords shouldn't be that effective against cav.

I don't know if other cav do like me, but I avoid 2h sword just as much as pikes and long spears.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 05:49:53 pm
Damn, why did I never think of this?
We will nerf cavalry by removing pikes and long spears! Great idea!

No cos that's your class
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 05:50:12 pm
Ok so right now I'm playing a desert map on EU4. It's open, plenty of space for cav. No problem. I don't mind the nerf in this situation as you have plenty of space to move around, yet it still makes it easier for inf.

The problem is, the nerf doesn't work on maps which are hilly/built up. And that's 90% of maps. So cavalry is now useless on 90% of maps because as soon as there is a slight change in slope angle, the horse slows back down to 0 and takes years to get back up to speed again, meaning it's easy for archers and inf. I've had it where I've hit a slope, slowed right down, and by the time I get my speed up again a couple of inf have run over to me and taken down most of my horses health.

I can understand this nerf in the context of more open maps. But crpg has very few of those maps.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 05:52:06 pm
Yeah the more I play the more I realize how extreme this nerf is. Cav is still effective in large, flat open plains, worse than useless in anything hilly or with lots of obstacles. And this is just as lancer perspective, must be totally unplayable as a 1h cav.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Nessaj on September 16, 2011, 05:54:41 pm
Good change, horses are way too maneuverable, with less speed perhaps it'll balance more out. I'm sure - as written in developer replies - they will be compensated in a more balanced way no matter what.
Hopefully we'll see way less James Bond(s) of Horse Riding now or at least only those who are worthy enough to be :wink:.
Perhaps now we'll even see Cav playing together and not just dispersing randomly around the map and stabbing everyone who turned their back for a second.

Can WSE fix the Directional Sound issue anyway? or do something to make horses properly heard instead of stationary sounds. That'd be a World of change.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: dynamike on September 16, 2011, 05:55:48 pm
Playing a hybrid, at least 3 play styles possible, so not too much affected by this change (a general recommendation for cRPG beta). BUT:

What's fun in inf/cav battles:

Infantry having a chance to counter cav not only by using pikes. A cav that can come up close and does not solely have to rely on speed to fight the infantry, but also on maneuverability and short weapon speed.

What's NOT fun in inf/cav battles:

Getting couched. There is no counter measure to couches except jumping out of the way. Cav having to rely solely on speed and if that speed is not reached, riding away. Never really coming close to inf except for that one couch/stab. This will prolong the rounds and make sure cav are the last class to go down in a round.

One of the classes I play is 1hd cav by the way. IMO the one cav class that requires a lot of skill and gives aware inf of all classes the chance to counter/duel me.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 05:56:03 pm
must be totally unplayable as a 1h cav.

When they destroyed HA a few patches ago they re-buffed cos it was just over-nerfed.  I hope they do same for 1h cav guys, cos this nerf has destroyed that class totally now, which is a shame (i'm lancer).
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 05:57:59 pm
i want a respec if it stays like this, looms aswell please...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 05:58:10 pm
i want a respec if it stays like this, looms aswell please...

+1
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 16, 2011, 05:58:48 pm
Dont worry this will bring more ha back into the game due to increased accuracy :P I'm a horse thrower and I am already seeing a huge improvement in top speed shooting... people will be crying about ha again before long :D
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: VVarlord on September 16, 2011, 05:59:35 pm
i want a respec if it stays like this, looms aswell please...

Im sorry lizard man but your not going to get a respec and heirloom reset each time stuff is changed, you have to put up with it like everyone else when there class is nerfed and use the market place.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 05:59:43 pm
Dont worry this will bring more ha back into the game due to increased accuracy :P I'm a horse thrower and I am already seeing a huge improvement in top speed shooting... people will be crying about ha again before long :D

True that is a buff to HA. I can now hit people a lot easier because I'm forced to be slow, rather than before I used to slow down myself if I needed to make a shot. However, it also means because of my low armour that I've been 1 shotted by long bows a number of times.

Edit:
Could increase my armour a bit, but honestly it's not worth the wpf penalty.

Regardless, I've been 1 shotted more by longbows and crossbows in the past hour or so than I have been for the past month.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 06:01:26 pm
When they destroyed HA a few patches ago they re-buffed cos it was just over-nerfed.

It's called tweaking. And yes, we're doing it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kenji on September 16, 2011, 06:04:24 pm
I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.
Truly music to me ears, milord, brought tears rollin' down me eyes!

The glory of charging into infantries like a real cavalry shall be a dream come true.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: DanZu on September 16, 2011, 06:07:14 pm
As 1h cav its really bad right now.   

IMO, we need more acceleration from a full stop. I have had swordsman hit me 3-4 times before I could get out of range.  Being able to very quickly accelerate to 1/3 or 1/2 speed and taking much longer to hit top speed would lessen the blow to 1h.  Also, a small buff to maneuverability at 25% speed or less would be great too.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 16, 2011, 06:08:09 pm
thx for finally nerfing horses to the ground, only took you almost a year of constant nerfs.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on September 16, 2011, 06:14:23 pm
My comp died more then a month ago. just got back

Nice ideas for making cav more unique.

but i feels so slooooooow. anybody decent can see me coming, go take a pis and come back. please give charge damage increase. i crashed into two inf with my cataphract horse and stopped...and with slow acceleration no need to say i didnt manage to get away
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 06:17:34 pm
Good change, horses are way too maneuverable, with less speed perhaps it'll balance more out.

It would make more sense to have the proper speed and just reduce maneuverability, if maneuverability is a problem.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Sergee on September 16, 2011, 06:18:04 pm
YAAAAA BUDDY!
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Aymeric on September 16, 2011, 06:22:37 pm
I just played this morning and then came on the forum to see what was happening...
after reading eveybody's post i post a few...opinions..ideas, or call it the way you want.
( btw i play heavy cav lance/morningstar, ... i m not a good player 1,5-1 kd ratio more or less )

The thing is everybody is speaking of cavalry as 1hand / lance / 2hand when we should speak of light / medium / heavy armored horses as a starting debate point:

- Light horse: it should be faster, accelerate more but be easily shootable ( when reached... and here is the speed and manouver question ) by archers.  ( a horse with no armour is equivalent to a naked person... )

- Medium and heavy: when more armour, more weight so less acceleration and a bit less top speed BUT ARMORED IS ARMORED.
I mean you should need the hell of arrows in order to kill an armored horse.

THEN we start speaking about playing styles:
You want a 1h on light horse: Be ready to maneuver a lot and evade all aware ennemies AS YOU HORSE HAS NO ARMOUR IT WILL DIE VEEEERRRRY FAST.  ( = More acceleration than before and more maneuver - Armour Same HP )

1h on heavy horse:  you are a close combat specialist... Your horse is a tank and normal arrows shouldnt even touch ( it s a way of speaking only...)  (= Less acceleration, same top speed same maneauver and MORE ARMOR AND HP)

Lance on light horse: more or less same thinking as 1handers... very fast and quick BUT very easily killable horse...

Lance on heavy horse: charging is your daily life: with the bonus to couch -should be a length bonus by the way, as some lances should be able to overpass by lenght any walking spearman- ( except some "Stop the cavalry specialists" with a 3 slot veeeery long pike for example ), you will charge the ennemy kill 1 and certainly be stopped by the others and then have to fight with your 1 hand or 2 hand weapon. ( your lack of maneuver will be compsated by the fact that you don t die in the fisrt approach )

HA: well, for sure they should go on fast horses and keep far away from infantry.... if they play on heavy cav, they take the risk of being quickly reached by light cav.

As a conclusion, i don t know if my thoughts are correct or not, but for sure some points of thinking:

a) everybody is speaking of cavalry as 1hand / lance / 2hand when we should speak of light / medium / heavy armored horses as a starting debate point

b) It's logic heavy horses have less acceleration ( because they are HEAVY ) but light horses????

c) if we are ok with b) then we are okay saying HEAVY horses are much more powerful in armour AND bumping damage.

d) if we had the fact of VERY high upkeep for heavy horses, there should be a HUGE difference between pros/contras between heavy/light horses. ( as huge as the upkeep difference at least ) and this way you will not see everybody with the same kind of horses ( 1hand / lance / HA )

e) Couch, as i said before pls buff reach.

f) Bumping: depending on horses again, but if you Bump an unaware player with a HEAVY Horse even at low speed that should hurt a lot....( of course it will be harder as your lack of acceleration and manouver will make it hard for somebody not to see you coming...


Hope this helps in thinking in new ways of thinking lol!!!



Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 16, 2011, 06:24:01 pm
without maneuverability cavalry just kill people who don't see them or people who are engaged in combat already and while that is effective it is not fun to play as at all and it takes no skill. thanks for making the only skill required for cavalry now being aiming your lance correctly.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 16, 2011, 06:25:26 pm
words

you know nothing.
couches are the most OP thing right now for cav even with the 'short' length.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Aymeric on September 16, 2011, 06:27:15 pm
ok thanks for the constructive approach on a long post.
i m speaking of being able to couch a poleman in front attack
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 06:29:51 pm
ok thanks for the constructive approach on a long post.
i m speaking of being able to couch a poleman in front attack

You should never be able to couch a dedicated anti cav character who knows what he is doing, that is broken gamebalance.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 06:32:18 pm
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 06:34:24 pm
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...

Reminds me of all those sissies that gave up archery when the arrow speed nerf came into play. Suckers are flavours of the month players more often then not.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 06:34:42 pm
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...

Give a whole new definition to the game we're all playing: Mount & Blade: Warband
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 06:35:32 pm
Reminds me of all those sissies that gave up archery when the arrow speed nerf came into play. Suckers are flavours of the month players more often then not.

We have so many FOTM players that sometimes I wonder am I playing WoW or Mount&Blade...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Aymeric on September 16, 2011, 06:35:50 pm
that s why i am speaking of dedicated anti cav characters in my post, not that ALL POLEARMS ARE ANTI CAVS
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 06:38:50 pm
What's fun in inf/cav battles:

Infantry having a chance to counter cav not only by using pikes. A cav that can come up close and does not solely have to rely on speed to fight the infantry, but also on maneuverability and short weapon speed.

You can't have that. It's simply not possible. A cav will not attack an aware enemy if in optimal conditions he doesn't win. Now that 2h do have the advantage vs cav, cav don't try to lance aware 2h anymore.


What's NOT fun in inf/cav battles:

Getting couched. There is no counter measure to couches except jumping out of the way. Cav having to rely solely on speed and if that speed is not reached, riding away. Never really coming close to inf except for that one couch/stab. This will prolong the rounds and make sure cav are the last class to go down in a round.

If you are an inf and you are getting couched, it's your fault. It's extremely easy to strike first given the shit range it has. Couched lance is only useful against unaware enemies (and is indeed much better than lance pokeing in that case because it won't miss half the time for no reason and has much more chances to onehit). If you are caught unaware, it's obviously your fault too.

With those two comments you are sort of negating the point of cavalry. Cavalry isn't about fighting someone for x seconds then killing him or dying, it's about swiftly charging then getting away. The biggest advantage of cav is choosing it's fights. You can't take that away, making a class better against cav will just mean that cav will be less tempted to attack that class.

On a side note, what I repeatedly see in horse complaints is that infantry aren't really crying about any horses, except the arab warhorse. It's the only one footman and ranged aren't able to dodge consistently, because of it's crazy maneuver. It's also the only one making the rider able to kill an enemy horse, then kill it's rider while he's on the ground, defenseless (doesn't happen often, but is quite lame honestly).
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 06:40:14 pm
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...

What do you expect ? What would you do if suddenly your weapon of choice had it's speed rating reduced to 30 ?  :lol:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Phazey on September 16, 2011, 06:43:16 pm
I almost never get couched. I think Dynamike is using a high str / low athl build.  :lol:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 06:44:53 pm
What do you expect ? What would you do if suddenly your weapon of choice had it's speed rating reduced to 30 ?  :lol:

Last 6 days I play with practice longsword, gen before that I used pitchfork, I use whatever I can find on the battlefield regardless do I have wpf for it or not. I'm not the right man to answer your question :wink:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Aymeric on September 16, 2011, 06:49:59 pm
only one thig is clear then: we need a RECAP post by devs on what is intended, where they want to go and what are the options they are taknig into account...
i ve never seen such a big one day topic lol.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: joey_bologna on September 16, 2011, 06:51:01 pm
CRPG just gets worse and worse, im done with it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 16, 2011, 06:52:39 pm
they want cav to have 10speed 2 maneuver 1000 health 200 body armour and for people to run into people head on couching lances with no skill involved.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Tyrell on September 16, 2011, 06:52:54 pm
Nothing needed to be changed. Horses are pretty damn fast in real life, and cavalry tear up non-pike infantry. Terrible change.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 06:52:59 pm
CRPG just gets worse and worse, im done with it.

Good bye, hope you find a game that suits you.

Also, this topic should be called horse acceleration not horse speed, two different things.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 06:54:09 pm
only one thig is clear then: we need a RECAP post by devs on what is intended, where they want to go and what are the options they are taknig into account...
i ve never seen such a big one day topic lol.

You need this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Sergee on September 16, 2011, 06:54:15 pm
Badplayer still dominates with this cav "Nerf" I love all these cav rage quiting crpg because their easy mode got a nerf.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Digglez on September 16, 2011, 06:54:54 pm
as a cav player for many generations and with an heirloomed horse the low end acceleration needs to be increase dramatically.  Taking awhile to get to top speed is alright, but at low speeds it should be MUCH more responsive.  in 2-3 steps a horse can get about half speed. right now its just walking, not even trotting or rouncing
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Fartface on September 16, 2011, 06:57:54 pm
hmm didnt notice realy any differance but still.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 07:05:52 pm
as a cav player for many generations and with an heirloomed horse the low end acceleration needs to be increase dramatically.  Taking awhile to get to top speed is alright, but at low speeds it should be MUCH more responsive.  in 2-3 steps a horse can get about half speed. right now its just walking, not even trotting or rouncing

This, I actually like the basic idea of a more nuanced form of acceleration than just press W for top speed, but the way it is now is ridiculous.

hmm didnt notice realy any differance but still.

Have you been playing on Pecores? I made the same mistake, the cav update isn't yet on Pecores server.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 07:06:47 pm
hmm didnt notice realy any differance but still.

Well you do have jars for eyeglasses so...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:08:10 pm
Good bye, hope you find a game that suits you.

Also, this topic should be called horse acceleration not horse speed, two different things.

Horse speed was also nerfed. And seeing as I ride a courser, that's what I noticed first.

Plus I thought the point of WSE was that they'd be able to separate manoeuvre, acceleration and speed?

I don't mind a slightly less top speed, but right now acceleration is down in the dumps. As soon as you get stopped you are dead because, as someone else pointed out, 2h can get 3-4 swings on your horse before you get out of range again. And with the amount of hilly village maps that are on EU servers, that happens an awful lot.

That's also why I've been 1 shotted by Longbowmen and Crossbows so much suddenly. Because there are so many hills around you can hardly move if you get stuck on one. And no matter how much you weave, the fact you are almost at a standstill means you can't avoid it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Fartface on September 16, 2011, 07:09:03 pm
Well you do have jars for eyeglasses so...
nah 2day only been playing for like5 min so yess:D
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Mtemtko on September 16, 2011, 07:10:01 pm
 :shock: 83body armor+ 27str+7IF and i get one hit by couch by a dude going 15kmh on a rouncey.... surprised big time
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Digglez on September 16, 2011, 07:11:59 pm
also these accel changes mean some naked peasant can prevent a horse from moving from a standstill, which is just plain wrong.  any horse can easily knock someone out of the way to get going, just pushing off with their back legs
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 16, 2011, 07:14:35 pm
over just put a poll on and see what the outcome is :P
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 07:16:05 pm
Whatever outcomes is, you guys will walk :twisted:

But to be honest, I already miss you on the battlefield...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:16:15 pm
over just put a poll on and see what the outcome is :P

Isn't really something you can poll :P

There are to many possibilities and changes that could be made.

Part of the problem is that devs have gone for the 'nerf horses' in a major way direction. When it's been said that will never work by plenty of people in the past. There are several different classes of horsemen just as there are footmen. If you nerf horses to much you could serious screw over one class, whilst others may hardly notice it and it won't matter to much to them.

Nerfing horses should be gentle, not extreme. And then if different classes of cav need to be nerfed then it should be approached differently.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 07:16:39 pm
Last 6 days I play with practice longsword, gen before that I used pitchfork, I use whatever I can find on the battlefield regardless do I have wpf for it or not. I'm not the right man to answer your question :wink:

Good for you :) but sadly, cav rely on their horse :mrgreen:


I know this will probably tweaked to reasonable values, but nevertheless this change doesn't go in the right direction.


Horses should be more even in terms of maneuver. Reducing maneuver across the board means buffing high maneuver horses.
2h shouldn't outrange lances.
I'd like to see a complete revamp of the pike : 3 slots unsheathable, 350 or more length, slower (~60), more damage than now (26 or The rider's armor weight should decrease the horse maneuver or the effective rider's riding skill.
Footmen shouldn't be able to "block" horses by standing in front of it when the horse tries to start. That makes 0 sense.
Fix the weird horseback block effect that sometimes protects the horse when the rider blocks an attack that should hit the horse.
Couched lances at ~35 speed should oneshot. Everyone. Being that unaware should come with a proper punishment. You only need one guy with a pike around to be 100% safe.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 07:17:02 pm
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.

There, I said it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 16, 2011, 07:17:54 pm
Leshma I am not overly worried bout this nerf for me :P as I said half of GK were considering converting to HA anyways... shishkebab or pincushion, either way we'll do it off horse :P
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 07:19:05 pm
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.

There, I said it.

True, but expected. People can't help but want to put their 2 cents in. I def agree some of the posts are stupid though.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 07:20:35 pm
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.

There, I said it.

We know that ;)

We are trying to help the dev team, as the most concerned players. At least that's what I think.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Phazey on September 16, 2011, 07:20:48 pm
I think what chadz is trying to say guys, is:

Be patient. They are working on it. It will get better once they're done tweaking. So relax and keep the rage in check. Be nice.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:20:53 pm
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.

There, I said it.

Most of it is. But what people generally want to know is what the hell do you plan to finetune it to?

You said cav should use speed/acceleration on plains. Problem being, crpg servers don't have plains. There are 4 maps out of 70 on EU1 that are random plains, and even those aren't guaranteed to have flat sections. The majority of others have big hills everywhere and simply wouldn't work with the ideal you previously posted.

If you nerf an entire part of crpg so heavily, people expect answers.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 07:26:41 pm
I think what chadz is trying to say guys, is:

Be patient. They are working on it. It will get better once they're done tweaking. So relax and keep the rage in check. Be nice.

So what you are saying is that you expect a miracle of patience and non rage that has never ever happened before on the cRPG forums after a tweak has been made?
Good to know you and chadz are optimists!  :lol:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 07:26:49 pm
Meh, I got used to the dev team. I'm way past expecting answers. I just wait and see what they do, I imagine it's enough of a second job to mantain and code cRPG, don't need to burden the devs with stupid public relations. Just see them as a sort of Greek pantheon, full of crazy bastards randomely changing the world for their amusement XD.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 07:27:00 pm
If you nerf an entire part of crpg so heavily, people expect answers.

I expect you to send me 500€ via PayPal.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Veto on September 16, 2011, 07:27:17 pm
Pitty to have Mount & Blade with out the mount (c) Sambeer

lol you must be joking, horses are still in the game..and you can still couch people ...and you can still use bullshit 1h from horseback...and you can still bump slash/stab. so sorry you got this game breaking nerf, that leveled you somewhat in terms of balance and what i think fairness. why should you or any cav be able to stack riding skill and make the horse move faster? answer me that
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 07:27:34 pm
I expect you to send me 500€ via PayPal.

I blame wookie for giving you this expectation!
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 07:27:45 pm
I have no fucking idea what they are doing, I code cool stuff that everyone likes. Why is it always me that catches the flak :(
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 07:28:34 pm
I have no fucking idea what they are doing, I code cool stuff that everyone likes. Why is it always me that catches the flak :(

Because in real life, shit has to roll up hill to the boss before he rolls it back downhill to the workers for punishment.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:29:12 pm
I expect you to send me 500€ via PayPal.

Well according to other people chadz has always said he doesn't want to do this for money  :P So...no.

Because in real life, shit has to roll up hill to the boss before he rolls it back downhill to the workers for punishment.

Tis true tis true.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 07:31:51 pm
lol you must be joking, horses are still in the game..and you can still couch people ...and you can still use bullshit 1h from horseback...and you can still bump slash/stab. so sorry you got this game breaking nerf, that leveled you somewhat in terms of balance and what i think fairness. why should you or any cav be able to stack riding skill and make the horse move faster? answer me that

You're right, we must immediately limit the power strike on a weapon based on it's difficulty. A longsword will now always hit with a maximum of 3 Powerstrike bonus, since it is difficulty 10. Any additional powerstrike will be superfluous.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 16, 2011, 07:33:26 pm
lol you must be joking, horses are still in the game..and you can still couch people ...and you can still use bullshit 1h from horseback...and you can still bump slash/stab. so sorry you got this game breaking nerf, that leveled you somewhat in terms of balance and what i think fairness. why should you or any cav be able to stack riding skill and make the horse move faster? answer me that

Most cav actually only get enough riding needed for the horse they are using and put the rest in PS/str or whatever.
I stack riding most gens but really the difference isn't that huge, the main thing we, or I atleast am complaining about is the acceleration which is just so ridiculously slow.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:35:30 pm
11 pages in 4 hours...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Patricia on September 16, 2011, 07:36:03 pm
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 07:37:35 pm
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.

Sadly, we are part of community consisted of people with very low self esteem.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Keshian on September 16, 2011, 07:38:28 pm
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.

Don't forget lancing while going up ladders and climbing on roofs.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:38:49 pm
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.

Load up the server now and jump on a horse. Lets see how you do.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Veto on September 16, 2011, 07:39:02 pm
well ive made several broken horse STF characters with more riding than needed, and it is beyond ridiculous. in that aspect the nerf was well deserved, but its not like cav are useless like everyone on one before this claims. i dont lance all the time so i cant sit here and give my two cents on how you should play your class, but it just seems like now cav is slightly more balanced and less "omg bullet train just couched me" maybe it just takes a little bit more effort or build reconstruction to regain your advantage you have over everyone in the game without a bow
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:41:21 pm
well ive made several broken horse STF characters with more riding than needed, and it is beyond ridiculous. in that aspect the nerf was well deserved, but its not like cav are useless like everyone on one before this claims. i dont lance all the time so i cant sit here and give my two cents on how you should play your class, but it just seems like now cav is slightly more balanced and less "omg bullet train just couched me" maybe it just takes a little bit more effort or build reconstruction to regain your advantage you have over everyone in the game without a bow

I have already said I don't mind the nerf overly on the right maps. On big open desert maps there's little problem. It works fine.

On the mass of hilly village maps we have though, there's hardly any point taking cav.

How you view the nerf is incredibly map dependent.

Edit:

It's quite bad looking through my steam list of GK and out of the 12 that are on, there are only 2 playing crpg. When there'd usually be all of us in game by now. And these are guys that are dedicated cav day in day out. They don't switch to the most popular build at the time or leave something as soon as it gets nerfed.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Smoothrich on September 16, 2011, 07:43:57 pm
Please add back in the Lance of Compensation, this is the perfect time to do it as throwing a bone to cav, and if you want cavalry to be more focused on couching, why then why not bring back the best couchable weapon in the game.

It's the only sensible thing to do, really.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 16, 2011, 07:45:29 pm
well ive made several broken horse STF characters with more riding than needed, and it is beyond ridiculous. in that aspect the nerf was well deserved, but its not like cav are useless like everyone on one before this claims. i dont lance all the time so i cant sit here and give my two cents on how you should play your class, but it just seems like now cav is slightly more balanced and less "omg bullet train just couched me" maybe it just takes a little bit more effort or build reconstruction to regain your advantage you have over everyone in the game without a bow

You see though, I think this is the exact opposite of what will happen. More often now you will be like that because cavalry can't slow down to do turns and stuff so they will be at full speed all the time and they won't try and engage anyone that they can't couch or get a good full speed lance on because of how slow they accelerate now.

It just seems like most of the skill involved in cavalry has been removed.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 07:49:57 pm
Nice to see that some influental clans are already working on "fix" for this "terrible" situation.

Can't believe I was supporter of clan in question...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Digglez on September 16, 2011, 07:50:00 pm
I think what chadz is trying to say guys, is:

Be patient. They are working on it. It will get better once they're done tweaking. So relax and keep the rage in check. Be nice.

So instead of altering 8% speed/accel/maneuver per riding to point....to say 5%, (roughly 1/3 or 33% value change) you just up and get rid of the entire bonus.  I guess subtlety isnt your forte, when values get cut in half or more.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Patricia on September 16, 2011, 07:51:48 pm
I have already said I don't mind the nerf overly on the right maps. On big open desert maps there's little problem. It works fine.

On the mass of hilly village maps we have though, there's hardly any point taking cav.

How you view the nerf is incredibly map dependent.

Edit:

It's quite bad looking through my steam list of GK and out of the 12 that are on, there are only 2 playing crpg. When there'd usually be all of us in game by now. And these are guys that are dedicated cav day in day out. They don't switch to the most popular build at the time or leave something as soon as it gets nerfed.

I see that you, yourself is under the assumption that horses should be mountain goats.

Also, how ironic, "They don't switch to the most popular build at the time or leave something as soon as it gets nerfed"

Earlier that day.

"It's quite bad looking through my steam list of GK and out of the 12 that are on, there are only 2 playing crpg. When there'd usually be all of us in game by now."
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 07:52:27 pm
Meh, still topping scoreboards, along with Muffin and Lizardman atm. It's just extremely boring when the only thing you can kill is unaware people, occupied people or headon only by couching. I'm getting used to it, but it doesn't have the fun feel of old cav. Maybe I got spoiled by old acceleration, which was, say, lamborghini, while now it is more zaporozhet. I guess the balance team is gonna try to aim for something a little bit more in between.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 07:53:28 pm
I see that you, yourself is under the assumption that horses should be mountain goats.

Also, how ironic, "They don't switch to the most popular build at the time or leave something as soon as it gets nerfed"

Earlier that day.

"It's quite bad looking through my steam list of GK and out of the 12 that are on, there are only 2 playing crpg. When there'd usually be all of us in game by now."

They haven't switched...or left. Many of them are simply sitting it out until it gets fixed. There's a difference.

No but until you put more cav maps in that allow for the nerfs to work on open plains or maps that have areas of flat ground, as was what chadz seemed to suggest, then it's simply not going to work. Else cav will be near useless on a huge number of maps.

Fact is, the first 4 maps I played on with this nerf were villages surrounded by hills. Then we got a desert one and it was fine. Then it was back to villages surrounded by hills again. And that's when I decided to go to the shops to stock up my food.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Phazey on September 16, 2011, 07:56:00 pm
Meh, still topping scoreboards, along with Muffin and Lizardman atm.

Clearly, cmp is nerfing the wrong values. If playername = *muffin* or *oberyn* or *lizardman* then reduce movement speed and damage by 50%.  :lol:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 08:04:59 pm
So instead of altering 8% speed/accel/maneuver per riding to point....to say 5%, (roughly 1/3 or 33% value change) you just up and get rid of the entire bonus.  I guess subtlety isnt your forte, when values get cut in half or more.

Wait, what? So my 9 riding character on a courser is the same as a 4 riding character? :/
Bummer...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: SeQuel on September 16, 2011, 08:07:52 pm
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU BUFF COUCHING WHEN IT ALREADY 1 HITS? PENETRATES THREW SHIELDS? AOE EFFECT? INSTANT KILL? oh wait it already does that last one.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on September 16, 2011, 08:10:26 pm
Couching one hit but has less range that a one hand...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Prpavi on September 16, 2011, 08:10:42 pm
yes BUFF COUCH a brilliant fucking idea!

its clear that nobody on the dev team plays this mod actively any more.

Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: SeQuel on September 16, 2011, 08:11:23 pm
Couching one hit but has less range that a one hand...

Bullshit.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 08:11:29 pm
Couching one hit but has less range that a one hand...

I like your massive exageration.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on September 16, 2011, 08:13:08 pm
lets see how cav got nerfed.....

1) lance and Heavy lance stats and speed was nerfed (grated it was then put back up....a little....)
2) all horses speed was nerfed and so was some maneuver
3) lots of village and hilly maps were put in with dogy ground that make people walk instead of run....
4) upkeep went up so now we have to be very rich to use the good horses or armored ones...
5) another nerf to speed and maneuver  :rolleyes:
6) acceleration nerf

Plus the LOL stab outreaches the Heavy lance  :shock:
pike and long spear speed was upped a bit

one or two things i might of missed since I try not to know about theses nerfs so I accept it better and faster.

EDIT:

oh yeah lance stab angle was nerfed so their new main attack is backstabbing.....
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Huey Newton on September 16, 2011, 08:13:34 pm
Cav and Archery and polearms got nerfed.
Why?
Nerfing most classes in the rock paper scissors balance theory doesn't accomplish anything.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 08:15:03 pm
If you get it at the right angle you can couch 2h trying to stab, almost every time. Shielders don't usually try to dodge much and sacrifice their shield. For very long stabbing polearms like english bill or the like it's more dangerous (trying to couch aware longspears/pikes is suicidal, although you can sometimes, very rarely, get lucky).
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 08:24:54 pm
You guys ever guessed why horses are mountain goats ? Because, well... after all, we fight on mountains...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: AgentQ on September 16, 2011, 08:27:12 pm
that's why i don't play CRPG anymore...  :cry:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 08:31:22 pm
Meh, still topping scoreboards, along with Muffin and Lizardman atm.

i've been playing on foot, haven't even used my horse, i don't need my horse to top the scoreboards... :P
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 08:31:35 pm
that's why i don't play CRPG anymore...  :cry:

You'll be missed...

NOT!
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 08:32:24 pm
You'll be missed...

NOT!


He is missed, old school RS member.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 08:34:05 pm
this riding nerf was an indirect buff to my 27/12 man at arms build hehe
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 08:39:15 pm

He is missed, old school RS member.

Then why quits the mod because of some silly nerf, like some nab? :shock:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Patricia on September 16, 2011, 08:40:43 pm

He is missed, old school RS member.

Except I don't think anyone in RS actually knows who he is, I've been in RS for fucklong and no one knew exactly who AgentQ was, not me, not socrate, not onimaho, not dexxtaa, not gafferjack, no one.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Lizard_man on September 16, 2011, 08:44:18 pm
i've stepped down from my horse, the survival rate of ranged has just increased, have fun...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 08:44:57 pm
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.

the arabian was a kart ok (and gets instakilled by an arrow).. but the heavier ones weren't... also a little momentary upkeep reduction would lead to more people testing it...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Vibe on September 16, 2011, 08:45:17 pm
wtb champ horses aka priuses, 10k each
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Aymeric on September 16, 2011, 08:45:24 pm
I just had THE BIG IDEA!!!!

I understood everything!!!!!
.
.
.
.
..
..

...

Horses will be used in a near future as a transportation method only so that you can elaborate very complicated tactics with fast infantry moves in big wagons, so keep your high upkeep horses, they will be used to move wagons of infantry men very soon.
Wagons will be available in the siege section in the shop.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 08:45:32 pm
Hmm did the values get adjusted again or am I just getting used to it? Acceleration feels much better than before now.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 08:47:31 pm
also don't nerf horses handling please...

buff the speed of the rest of cRPG instead!

Hmm did the values get adjusted again or am I just getting used to it? Acceleration feels much better than before now.

don't know... my cav alt is so poor i can't go out testing without draining my 30k bank in a matter of minutes.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 08:49:36 pm
Except I don't think anyone in RS actually knows who he is, I've been in RS for fucklong and no one knew exactly who AgentQ was, not me, not socrate, not onimaho, not dexxtaa, not gafferjack, no one.

i know who he is, hes a fantastic cav player, never seen him on teamspeak though.

who the hell is onimaho?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: AgentQ on September 16, 2011, 08:56:58 pm
in my opinion, cav is all about speed and range. A slow horse is a dead horse. Game lost it's feeling when the 40 degree polarm thrust was introduced.

i am rarely on TS. Onimaho and dexxtaa both know me. I killed Dexxtaa plenty of times.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 08:57:45 pm
in my opinion, cav is all about speed and range. A slow horse is a dead horse. Game lost it's feeling when the 40 degree polarm thrust was introduced.

light cav you mean.

Heavy cav its about shock and awe.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 09:01:07 pm
light cav you mean.

Heavy cav its about shock and awe.

Yeah but with tons of polearms being able to stop heavy cav, it's kinda a shame heavy cav charges are near enough useless.

The shock and awe part works though. One time GK did it, the enemy team was so scared they formed a shield wall in the village entrance on ruins. Even though we probably killed 2 of them in the charge and did more damage to our own team than to them  :lol:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 09:06:04 pm
Yeah but with tons of polearms being able to stop heavy cav, it's kinda a shame heavy cav charges are near enough useless.

The shock and awe part works though. One time GK did it, the enemy team was so scared they formed a shield wall in the village entrance on ruins. Even though we probably killed 2 of them in the charge and did more damage to our own team than to them  :lol:

thats why you gotta wait until infantry is engaged with enemy infantry and then attack the flanks. Hammer and anvil style.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 09:09:19 pm
thats why you gotta wait until infantry is engaged with enemy infantry and then attack the flanks. Hammer and anvil style.

Yeah we tried that. Problem is with a proper cav charge is that regardless of where you form up your easy to see. Those pesky polearms are awaiting  :P Probably about half of us got stopped in our tracks...the other half probably took a fair amount of health with bumps and only a couple got kills. You kinda expect a properly organised cav charge to do a lot more.

Individual heavy cav that's fine though.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Patricia on September 16, 2011, 09:11:24 pm
in my opinion, cav is all about speed and range. A slow horse is a dead horse. Game lost it's feeling when the 40 degree polarm thrust was introduced.

i am rarely on TS. Onimaho and dexxtaa both know me. I killed Dexxtaa plenty of times.

Me and alot of other RS members have saw you on the steamchat long ago like maybe twice in several months and you were never talking ingame, it has been a running joke for awhile in RS because you were so silent and no one was really sure how you joined.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 09:12:43 pm
Yeah we tried that. Problem is with a proper cav charge is that regardless of where you form up your easy to see. Those pesky polearms are awaiting  :P Probably about half of us got stopped in our tracks...the other half probably took a fair amount of health with bumps and only a couple got kills. You kinda expect a properly organised cav charge to do a lot more.

Individual heavy cav that's fine though.

not enough people to do a full charge, more people=more mass=more effective shock and awe. As it is, its probably better to do solo or 2man heavy cav squads and rape the mass of infantry from many directions, rather than one concentrated mass of lancers.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 09:13:48 pm
not enough people to do a full charge, more people=more mass=more effective shock and awe. As it is, its probably better to do solo or 2man heavy cav squads and rape the mass of infantry from many directions, rather than one concentrated mass of lancers.

Not enough people? There were 15 of us, about 9 or so GK and randomers who joined in  :P

But yeah it worked from the awe perspective. It just didn't from a kill perspective.

I'm just surprised it wasn't so effective. And that was against random pubbys.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 09:14:03 pm
Hmm did the values get adjusted again

Yep.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 16, 2011, 09:19:58 pm
NERF CAV NERF CAV
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 09:21:56 pm
Yep.

Acceleration is much better, even if top speed isn't great. Thanks.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: justme on September 16, 2011, 09:23:15 pm
Acceleration is much better, even if top speed isn't great. Thanks.

are riding skills nerfed or horse stats?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 09:23:48 pm
Not enough people? There were 15 of us, about 9 or so GK and randomers who joined in  :P

But yeah it worked from the awe perspective. It just didn't from a kill perspective.

I'm just surprised it wasn't so effective. And that was against random pubbys.

yeah not enough people, heavy cav charges was a psychological weapon more than an actual damage weapon. The thundering oh hooves, the glistening of the armor, the terrible charge and carnage of a horse on man encounter, this would break most militia and mercenary battle lines. This obviously doesn't work in a game where theres no such thing as morale, because when people die they just lose the round. IMO there should be a lance thats couchable only and is equal to the length of a longspear, only pikes can counter those cav.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 09:25:19 pm
yeah not enough people, heavy cav charges was a psychological weapon more than an actual damage weapon. The thundering oh hooves, the glistening of the armor, the terrible charge and carnage of a horse on man encounter, this would break most militia and mercenary battle lines. This obviously doesn't work in a game where theres no such thing as morale, because when people die they just lose the round. IMO there should be a lance thats couchable only and is equal to the length of a longspear, only pikes can counter those cav.

lance of compensation
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 09:27:13 pm
i joined crpg right after they removed that lance, as well as the sword of tears/cookies.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 09:27:46 pm
Yep.

Can you buff us, agi balanced pedestrians, a little bit?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 09:33:49 pm
Can you buff us, agi balanced pedestrians, a little bit?

What is buff?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: tankmen on September 16, 2011, 09:35:27 pm
see i knew i wasnt just making shit up, i was tired as hell and hadn't played in a few days and i hopped on last night at 2 and sat there waiting for my horse to reach 20 mph, checked equipment to see if i was riding my sumpter, then realized i must be out of it and went to sleep.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 09:36:42 pm
Me and alot of other RS members have saw you on the steamchat long ago like maybe twice in several months and you were never talking ingame, it has been a running joke for awhile in RS because you were so silent and no one was really sure how you joined.

A while back a couple of people finally caught on (I was there  :mrgreen:)
You are just Jelly.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Christo on September 16, 2011, 09:36:44 pm
What is buff?

What is buff?
Cmp hurts me,
Don't hurt me.. no more.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 16, 2011, 09:40:04 pm
actually i have an great idea.. just youtube barrel racing or something so you can actually see how a horse really maneuvers, then you can implement this into the game.. i mean really tho. just keep driving it right into the dirt.. it may go from not even really being a horse to being even more not really like a horse lol.. dude.. horses are supposed to haul ass, even way more than it was.. they can also run 40-50mph..
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: IceManX on September 16, 2011, 09:48:31 pm
I can only say well done!
Nerf the horsemen - they didnt have to pay more than others... Lance, Weapons, Armors, Shields, their horses...

And plz buff those goddamn ranged people. They are so weak.
XBows can only one shot people in fullplate, plz make it that they just have to aim at someone with their crosshair and the one dies after that, without shooting the bolt.

Oh and i forgot the weak archers, their shotguns with an unlimited reach of dmg (arrows make nearly fulldmg even over a half map) and their shooting speed. Jump, Shot, Jump, Shot and so on... and hitting shit like gods.

Oh and before i forget it, take my sarcasm!
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 09:59:38 pm
I can only say well done!
Nerf the horsemen - they didnt have to pay more than others... Lance, Weapons, Armors, Shields, their horses...

And plz buff those goddamn ranged people. They are so weak.
XBows can only one shot people in fullplate, plz make it that they just have to aim at someone with their crosshair and the one dies after that, without shooting the bolt.

Oh and i forgot the weak archers, their shotguns with an unlimited reach of dmg (arrows make nearly fulldmg even over a half map) and their shooting speed. Jump, Shot, Jump, Shot and so on... and hitting shit like gods.

Oh and before i forget it, take my sarcasm!

jumpshot is dead
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tyrell on September 16, 2011, 10:02:43 pm
actually i have an great idea.. just youtube barrel racing or something so you can actually see how a horse really maneuvers, then you can implement this into the game.. i mean really tho. just keep driving it right into the dirt.. it may go from not even really being a horse to being even more not really like a horse lol.. dude.. horses are supposed to haul ass, even way more than it was.. they can also run 40-50mph..
This is the truth.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Kophka on September 16, 2011, 10:06:37 pm
actually i have an great idea.. just youtube barrel racing or something so you can actually see how a horse really maneuvers, then you can implement this into the game.. i mean really tho. just keep driving it right into the dirt.. it may go from not even really being a horse to being even more not really like a horse lol.. dude.. horses are supposed to haul ass, even way more than it was.. they can also run 40-50mph..

Pretty much any equine sports show the natural agility and speed of horses. To be honest though, it would really only apply to the lighter horse breeds. While a big mailed horse with a rider really isn't affected by the weight it's carrying (it'd be like you running around with a 30lb back pack, can get rough eventually, but you can overcome it with training and familiarity)  they ARE still going to be limited in their speed and agility by their breed characteristics. Some horse breeds just aren't as agile as others, but they make up for it by being larger, tougher, and more stable.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tyrell on September 16, 2011, 10:12:05 pm
Pretty much any equine sports show the natural agility and speed of horses. To be honest though, it would really only apply to the lighter horse breeds. While a big mailed horse with a rider really isn't affected by the weight it's carrying (it'd be like you running around with a 30lb back pack, can get rough eventually, but you can overcome it with training and familiarity)  they ARE still going to be limited in their speed and agility by their breed characteristics. Some horse breeds just aren't as agile as others, but they make up for it by being larger, tougher, and more stable.
While this is true, the fast horse breeds in cRPG (Destrier, Courser) are no longer as fast as they should be. I say again, nothing needed to be changed. Don't know why people expect  a fully armored cav with a lance coming to be anything but strong.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 10:14:37 pm
Right now horse speed and acceleration is ok, not what it used to be (OP) but it's fine.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leesin on September 16, 2011, 10:16:00 pm
It's a hard life playing 1h shield cav, but I'll do it anyway because I'm a pretty cool guy, I can ride a horse and I doesn't afraid of anything.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Patricia on September 16, 2011, 10:16:08 pm
A while back a couple of people finally caught on (I was there  :mrgreen:)
You are just Jelly.

I was talking about like september-december last year.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 10:17:41 pm
I was talking about like september-december last year.

Welcome to this year gawd... Talk about living in the past....
"Nobody knows who this guy is last year!"

Oh rly? YAH RLY!

Okay Patricia... Now just drink your warm milk, have a cookie and take a nap, you are "the best" don't worry. *pats Patricia reassuringly on the head while shooing to nap time*
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: dynamike on September 16, 2011, 10:23:05 pm
You can't have that. It's simply not possible. A cav will not attack an aware enemy if in optimal conditions he doesn't win. Now that 2h do have the advantage vs cav, cav don't try to lance aware 2h anymore.

If you are an inf and you are getting couched, it's your fault. It's extremely easy to strike first given the shit range it has. Couched lance is only useful against unaware enemies (and is indeed much better than lance pokeing in that case because it won't miss half the time for no reason and has much more chances to onehit). If you are caught unaware, it's obviously your fault too.

With those two comments you are sort of negating the point of cavalry. Cavalry isn't about fighting someone for x seconds then killing him or dying, it's about swiftly charging then getting away. The biggest advantage of cav is choosing it's fights. You can't take that away, making a class better against cav will just mean that cav will be less tempted to attack that class.

On a side note, what I repeatedly see in horse complaints is that infantry aren't really crying about any horses, except the arab warhorse. It's the only one footman and ranged aren't able to dodge consistently, because of it's crazy maneuver. It's also the only one making the rider able to kill an enemy horse, then kill it's rider while he's on the ground, defenseless (doesn't happen often, but is quite lame honestly).

Don't think you quite understood any of my post. Might be because I am laying on the beach, posting from my phone lol.

I was saying that for me it is much more fun to be in close encounter battles with cav when I play my inf class (1hd/2hd) and with inf when I play my 1hd cav class.

As cav I - besides going for the easy, unaware kills - enjoy a fair duel with a melee inf and the other way around. Having to dodge couches and mindnumbingly downblock lance thrusts is not my idea of fun on the other hand.

Therefore: please don't give cav more reason to stay out of the reach of all melee, except when there is a mile of even ground available.

Btw: I play somewhat equally as well on horse as melee. So no biased request here.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: dynamike on September 16, 2011, 10:26:44 pm
that's why i don't play CRPG anymore...  :cry:

You, sir, ARE missed.

Now quit whining and come play again.

Oh and don't listen to Pat, he's an angry pretend Texan :p
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thomek on September 16, 2011, 10:29:41 pm
Muhahahahahaha HA!
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Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 10:31:37 pm
Thomek...it was rebuffed...
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Kophka on September 16, 2011, 10:33:12 pm

I was saying that for me it is much more fun to be in close encounter battles with cav when I play my inf class (1hd/2hd) and with inf when I play my 1hd cav class.

As cav I - besides going for the easy, unaware kills - enjoy a fair duel with a melee inf and the other way around. Having to dodge couches and mindnumbingly downblock lance thrusts is not my idea of fun on the other hand.

Therefore: please don't give cav more reason to stay out of the reach of all melee, except when there is a mile of even ground available.

Btw: I play somewhat equally as well on horse as melee. So no biased request here.

I agree whole-heartedly with you mike. That's probably why my K:D is so bloody awful, I throw my javs, draw my mace/axe (70 reach! O.o) and try mix it up with inf. When I do good, I can slash a few people, ride out, try again. Of course, most of my slashes miss, because inf are WAAAY more nimble than my horse, and rightly so. But I'd like to at least be able to get away if I earn some breathing room (and my poor horse doesn't get 2 shot by a 2 hander).

That said, I think the latest changes by cmp weren't too bad (or were the changes reverted?). I played a few rounds on EU_1, and it was playable. Of course that was on an open map, dunno how bad it is if you get caught on a piece of landscape, and have to try to make a quick escape.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 10:38:21 pm
Well playing EU4 for a few rounds it didn't seem to bad now.

However, GK are currently loaded on pecores so can't comment much more.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thomek on September 16, 2011, 10:42:41 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 10:45:04 pm
NVM, Thomek the magnificent fixed it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: darmaster on September 16, 2011, 10:59:28 pm
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 11:02:48 pm
Meh, Arrabian still fast as hell, MAGANDA still killing people...  :(
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 11:04:35 pm
Meh, Arrabian still fast as hell, MAGANDA still killing people...  :(

Zomg poor you. Maganda will always kill people. As will Kerri on his Arabian.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 11:05:56 pm
MAGANDA is the worst player that ever played this mod, right after are Michael and The_Finn.

Devs got no balls, but they are excused if they are girls IRL :)
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leesin on September 16, 2011, 11:06:20 pm
Meh, Arrabian still fast as hell, MAGANDA still killing people...  :(

Will you be happy when even the top cav players can't get kills? lol
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Osiris on September 16, 2011, 11:07:06 pm
Future cav of crpg (dont know how to embed leave me alone!)

http://youtu.be/H4_9kDO3q0w (http://youtu.be/H4_9kDO3q0w)

Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 11:07:46 pm
I don't mind skilled players getting kills :D (Leed, Kerrigan, Chagan, Oberyn...)
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 11:08:56 pm
I don't mind skilled players getting kills :D (Leed, Kerrigan, Chagan, Oberyn...)

Maganda is still skilled.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Christo on September 16, 2011, 11:09:13 pm
MAGANDA is the worst player that ever played this mod, right after are Michael and The_Finn.

Devs got no balls, but they are excused if they are girls IRL :)

Ahahaha.

Don't want to spam the topic, but girls have balls on them too, just in a different location. Bigger than guy's, if you think about it.

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Thomek on September 16, 2011, 11:10:42 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3bNKtocDUc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3bNKtocDUc&feature=related)
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 11:13:16 pm
Maganda is still skilled.

Yeah, like that Ralebeu guy, MBB_CAV and some others I can't remember atm which are plain terrible but get a lot of kills thanks to "cavalry".

But I don't mind, I won't play in these rags forever. In full armor lance stab don't hurt much but seems that couching got buffed which still means press-X-1-hit-noob-kill...

And pro testing Paul, riding a slow ass Charger is the right way to figure out are horses fast or not...
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Torost on September 16, 2011, 11:41:16 pm
And there was much rejoicing!

The proper way to handle cav:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-eA_5_lEIU&feature=related

 :evil:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Arrowblood on September 16, 2011, 11:51:49 pm
They need pikes next time.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Kafein on September 17, 2011, 01:31:07 am
But I don't mind, I won't play in these rags forever. In full armor lance stab don't hurt much but seems that couching got buffed which still means press-X-1-hit-noob-kill...

By "press-X-1-hit-noob-kill" you mean killing someone noobish enough to offer you his back ?


If I swing at you in a duel, and you don't block, you'll call me a noob ?

Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Reinhardt on September 17, 2011, 01:36:52 am
Gotta make sure the archers can still shoot down horsies, so they decreased the acceleration, I bet.  :mrgreen:

The wonderful world of balance.

...wut


Archers, throwers, xbowmen. They all took down my horse in 1-shot before. To be honest, I have no idea what everyone is talking about... probably because I haven't played yet today. Something horrible happen to cav (again)?
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 17, 2011, 01:40:05 am
...wut


Archers, throwers, xbowmen. They all took down my horse in 1-shot before. To be honest, I have no idea what everyone is talking about... probably because I haven't played yet today. Something horrible happen to cav (again)?

nah  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: BlueKnight on September 17, 2011, 01:52:35 am
I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.

HP buff is not needed. I think that archer's dmg should be just lowered. This is madness that an archer with loomed stuff can kill loomed tincan with 2 shots ( I am the example of such a tincan ).
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 17, 2011, 03:50:53 am
HP buff is not needed. I think that archer's dmg should be just lowered. This is madness that an archer with loomed stuff can kill loomed tincan with 2 shots ( I am the example of such a tincan ).

i can sustain 4 jambi's arrows.. 3IF and rus lamellar cuirass. so you're not a tincan.

about horses, i don't see all that handling nerf. just finished some rounds as a cav.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 17, 2011, 06:10:30 am
I think that archer's dmg should be just lowered. This is madness that an archer with loomed stuff can kill loomed tincan with 2 shots ( I am the example of such a tincan ).

No offense, but you are a weakling of a tin can then or being hit by one hell of a power house archer.

27 str, 12 agi

9 if

65+ body armor

I barely bother dodging arrows anymore... Even though it's easy enough as they float through the air like paper airplanes.

crossbows though, definitely will move right out of the way for those crossbows.
Title: Re: Horse Speed
Post by: MrShovelFace on September 17, 2011, 08:14:43 am
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.

The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.

But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.

chadz can you have my babies for that statement?
although my charcter TheSpectacularButtPirate will be weaker for it
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Paul on September 17, 2011, 08:56:00 am
Egyptians... Always ready to loot a horse or two.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Tzar on September 17, 2011, 11:44:39 am
Shit was OP needed at nerf..

Im not gonna retire/respec my 1h/cav player yet im just gonna adapt.

You guys should stop QQ...


Not to act like a brown nose kinda guy but thx chadz and the dev team.. gj  :wink:

This and the archer nerf had it comming... now if chadz could just remove polestun id be even more happy.

EDIT: almost forgot removal of ladders so ranged cant be immune to 50% of the other player base for a whole duration of a map...

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Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Smoothrich on September 17, 2011, 12:03:28 pm
I respecced from cav to 2hander recently for the first time in months and I'm still amazed at how easy it is to kill cav.  Juke the lance, stab the horse or rider, they're dead.  Alternatively if they are very good cav.. you down block.  Cav being especially dominating?  Use those extra 2 slots for an xbow and bolts or a long spear.  I didn't get a chance to be 2hander during The Tragic Cav Nerf of 9/16/2011, but I probably would've felt pangs of guilt and mercy at cav as they would just get completely ripped apart by infantry if they so much as hit a stone.  Removing riding bonuses is just a bad idea all around, as there would be no reason not to do 27/15 for heavy cav or 30/12 for light cav (lmao)

Seriously
Strength: 30
Agility: 12
Hit points: 65
Skills to attributes: 14
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 10
Shield: 3
Athletics: 0
Riding: 4

This would be the only viable light cav build, or perhaps 27/12 with full iron flesh to pretend to have survivability as cav.  I am considering making this my main for strat, if you retry these cav nerfs. 

The idea of buffing couching is pretty misguided too, it insta kills everyone except pure strength builds, which makes perfect sense.  Only reasonable buff would be adding back in the Lance of Compensation, for ol' times sake.  Seriously, all good cav just couch for the first 2 minutes of a match and insta kill everything, then support infantry and finish people off with thrusts, couching whenever opportune. 

The acceleration thing was garbage by the way, I was able to deal with it and I'm sure most good cav would adapt (while having an awful time, far worse then lancing radius nerf) and everyone else would abandon the class, but cav really isn't that big of a deal.  A team that lets itself get destroyed by cav is usually just a bad team, and the vast majority of cav players do 1:1 or so KDRs.  Noob cav are gonna die pretty easily to ranged, other cav, and polearms/2handers, they are all REALLY effectively counter cav as it is.  Pretty sure the people who wine the most are Rambo archers who stand alone at the flanks, and katana wielding honor duelers who get couched within 20 seconds of each round.

If you feel that readjusting the cav acceleration is still necessary (I really don't think it is)  please just don't make it so extreme as you did.  The lancing degrees nerf was a good balance decision and cav adapted within a week, but that acceleration thing was just extremely awful to play as.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: polkafranzi on September 17, 2011, 12:13:05 pm
(click to show/hide)

excellent post.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 12:20:26 pm
Good cav were still doing good, but as you said mostly because of bad players on the other team, or not necessarily bad players but ones that don't devote as much attention to awareness as they should. For head on charges against aware infantry couching was the only possible way, for archers, crossbows and throwers even charging one aware isolated guy was a hassle, which was kind of meh since imo that's the best thing cav have to contribute to their team, ranged hunting. The other two being backstabbers to unaware/engaged inf and anti other cav.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 12:29:47 pm
You know what would be a good nerf and "realistic" for cav? Keep the rearing effect when running into other horses, but I gotta admit it's still kinda weird to me that I can plow headlong fullspeed into a wall and the horse magically rear from 2 centimeters away. Plus it would be pretty lulzy to see cav run into a wall or a tree and watch the horse explode.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Gurnisson on September 17, 2011, 12:36:04 pm
Played my lancer yesterday, and I wonder why you're whining about this? If you play your class right, it shouldn't matter much at all.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 12:41:19 pm
As far as k/d goes, no it doesn't really, just changes the whole role of cavalry in a cRPG battle. Like Smoothrich said, good cav would have addapted, but it was a pretty big change, much more than, for example, the jump shot removal which was barely a nerf.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Gurnisson on September 17, 2011, 12:48:21 pm
As far as k/d goes, no it doesn't really, just changes the whole role of cavalry in a cRPG battle.

Eh... no, it doesn't. You should still be the shock troop dealing with unawares, taking down tunnel visioned players and bumping/couching/thrusting the ones that's engaging your team. Low risk - high reward style of play.. That's what cav was about. It still is.

Also, the jumping wasn't a too harsh archer nerf. I can agree on that. :wink:
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Patricia on September 17, 2011, 12:54:54 pm
So, I heard that riding was only a req but that they then changed it again.

So riding gives a bonus again but just a smaller one?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 01:00:18 pm
Eh... no, it doesn't. You should still be the shock troop dealing with unawares, taking down tunnel visioned players and bumping/couching/thrusting the ones that's engaging your team. Low risk - high reward style of play.. That's what cav was about. It still is.

Also, the jumping wasn't a too harsh archer nerf. I can agree on that. :wink:

For noob cav, maybe. No offense. You don't see the oxymoron between "shock troops" and "taking down unawares"?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 17, 2011, 01:00:47 pm
Played my lancer yesterday, and I wonder why you're whining about this? If you play your class right, it shouldn't matter much at all.

In all fairness this thread was created with the first nerf, which was very heavy. They then made it a bit better again. And you only just played so of course it's not as noticeable.

Now I haven't started up crpg yet today, but I assume it's still the same as it was when I went to bed  :P
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 01:02:50 pm
In all fairness this thread was created with the first nerf, which was very heavy. They then made it a bit better again. And you only just played so of course it's not as noticeable.

Now I haven't started up crpg yet today, but I assume it's still the same as it was when I went to bed  :P

I think he is talking about the first nerf. If he's talking about the current one, I can barely tell the difference between that and the way it was before any nerf on acceleration. So no reason to whine. Maybe because the first one was so bad.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 17, 2011, 01:05:59 pm
I think he is talking about the first nerf. If he's talking about the current one, I can barely tell the difference between that and the way it was before any nerf on acceleration. So no reason to whine. Maybe because the first one was so bad.

The first nerf was playable on some maps. But a slight hill and it was pretty rough. But yeah there is very small difference now. Top speed seems to be down a bit but acceleration is good.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 17, 2011, 01:07:24 pm
hello guys let me tell you a little story about nerfing.

So here goes:

People said 2h is op with its lolstab one shots

so they nerfed stab dmg considerably, reaction was fierce but the change remained, they said 2h is dead but ppl adapted and still owned

so they nerfed stab animation, they said twas the end of lolstab, 2h is dead, ppl adapted

then they nerfed dmg and speed, same thing as before

then lenght of some weapons

and then cut dmg took a big hit with the new soak values, so both atacks were lol compared to before, ppl got some strenght, adapted, owned and still enjoyed the game

And now we have a balaced class, not so powerfull as before but still fun and rewarding if you put some time into it.

so;

You got 2 choices: a) Ajust, adapt i guarantee you will still own and enjoy the game

b) quit like a girly man


If its a too big of a nerf it will be lowered but judging from the reactions and the time i spent on the servers (yay got my laptop) it just requires a certain ajustment of players.

All in all im glad that some1 has finaly seen a problem in the meth addict horses, seems that things have beem put into place and we will have a more balanced game than ever.


edit: havent seen the inital nerf but i like the second one and the better cav doesent seem to mind so win win situation?



Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Gurnisson on September 17, 2011, 01:10:38 pm
Played it during the first nerf, yes. Was maybe a tad harsh, but shouldn't have affected it too much.

Be my guest, Oberyn, call me a noob if you want. My view on things is that survival is the #1 most important thing as cav. I'll rape engaged people in their back all day long for a good multiplier, and will not die unless the team fails. I keep away from other cav and pikers because that goes under the category 'high risk - high reward', not 'low risk - high reward'. I don't rate cav at their super duper timing in lancing duels, because it's too risky. Cav with brains is what I rate. Cav like Leed.

I've played like that in clan matches in Native against the best, and that's the way to do it. Risking cav can do very well from time to time, but the smart one will generally deliver better results.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 17, 2011, 01:12:12 pm
I've played like that in clan matches in Native against the best, and that's the way to do it. Risking cav can do very well from time to time, but the smart one will generally deliver better results.

Which is why I tend to shoot their horses. And more archers should focus on such things. The inf wouldn't moan so much if they did.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Xant on September 17, 2011, 01:13:06 pm
So now that we're all done here, how about nerfing armor looms?
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 01:22:47 pm
Played it during the first nerf, yes. Was maybe a tad harsh, but shouldn't have affected it too much.

Be my guest, Oberyn, call me a noob if you want. My view on things is that survival is the #1 most important thing as cav. I'll rape engaged people in their back all day long for a good multiplier, and will not die unless the team fails. I keep away from other cav and pikers because that goes under the category 'high risk - high reward', not 'low risk - high reward'. I don't rate cav at their super duper timing in lancing duels, because it's too risky. Cav with brains is what I rate. Cav like Leed.

I've played like that in clan matches in Native against the best, and that's the way to do it. Risking cav can do very well from time to time, but the smart one will generally deliver better results.

I'm not really calling you a noob, it's just what the nerf intended as far as I understand it. Forcing top tier cav to play it as safe as the noobs used to, and forcing noobs to either addapt or quit the class. Not exactly a "shock troop" if you don't take risks. Not that it isn't an extremely effective method of playing cav, but it's like, cav 101. The basics. Leed is a great player, if he plays this way it's not through lack of skill, but maybe because his favored cav playstyle is more conservative. And he's much better at it than the noobs who try to emulate him.  But all the top cav, no matter how reckless, prioritize targets anyways. I happen to think taken down enemy cav is a huge bonus to the rest of the team. Having cav superiority can change a losing round into a winning one. Depends on the map of course, and if it's not enemy cav then archers and other ranged are usually the highest priority.

Btw this is all as a lancer cav, what is your horse char Gurnni? 1h cav were much more badly hit by hit, practically unplayable from what I heard.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Bothersome_Aldryk on September 17, 2011, 01:23:11 pm
But what will we do without looms that double the armor on our gloves, ETC. Oh, right. Be men again.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Xant on September 17, 2011, 01:26:26 pm
But what will we do without looms that double the armor on our gloves, ETC. Oh, right. Be men again.

No no, we need to have people with 80 armor running around.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Gurnisson on September 17, 2011, 01:35:09 pm
I happen to think taken down enemy cav is a huge bonus to the rest of the team. Having cav superiority can change a losing round into a winning one.

I agree. I would probably not go 1 vs. 1 though, maybe if I was a tad bored, or if it was possible to ambush one with a couch around a house corner. If the other cav was engaging enemy cav, I would of course help out. 2 cav vs. 1 cav should secure that one couch the horse/rider, which would help your team a lot. I've always aimed for cav when being crossbowman and archer too, because I believe they're the class that really can turn a game on its head.

Btw this is all as a lancer cav, what is your horse char Gurnni? 1h cav were much more badly hit by hit, practically unplayable from what I heard.

I have both at a decent level (24 and 26 I think), but I only played lancer yesterday. I have no idea how the 1H cav had it when the nerf first was introduced, but I don't doubt it. 1H cav relies more on good maneuver and stop - start playing than lancers.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 17, 2011, 03:43:38 pm
I saw a couple of 1h cav doing ok with the first nerf. But the majority were suffering.

From an HA perspective the first nerf was an arse because the slow speed/necessary low armour meant you could be easily 1 shotted by longbows and xbows off your horse. With all the hilly maps it was a very frequent occurrence.

Now they buffed it back up it's much better again.

Again, I still think nerfing horses is not the way to go with cavalry. You can screw over 1 cav class yet another will be fine and will handle it well.

It needs a different approach if it's to be done at all. Targeting individual classes is probably the way to go, rather than a sweeping horse nerf.

It's just a matter of how to do it.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Assarhaddon on September 17, 2011, 03:50:46 pm
*never mind*
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leesin on September 17, 2011, 03:51:01 pm
Well they could maybe nerf lances with the WSE, get rid of that bullshit when the lancers horse is moving 2mph and his lance hits something at the START of the thrust animation and does full damage. 
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 17, 2011, 03:52:33 pm
Well they could maybe nerf lances with the WSE, get rid of that bullshit when the lancers horse is moving 2mph and his lance hits something at the START of the thrust animation and does full damage.

Possibly. I thought one of the advantages of WSE was being able to change the lance angle to something in between the 90 degree and couch lance angle. If you changed it to something in between, and maybe fixed some of the odder aspects of lance damage. Then it might be a fair change.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Leesin on September 17, 2011, 09:33:54 pm
Possibly. I thought one of the advantages of WSE was being able to change the lance angle to something in between the 90 degree and couch lance angle. If you changed it to something in between, and maybe fixed some of the odder aspects of lance damage. Then it might be a fair change.

It certainly would force lancers to behave more like actual lancers.

When a lancer hits a wall or an obstacle he has fucked up and should need to switch to different weapon to fight in close or try to escape, but as it stands due to the way lances function, he can fight in close combat moving very slowly, thrusting, hitting something pont blank at the beginning of the lance thrust animation and do pretty much full damage.

That will also then give 1h + shield cav more importance in their role.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: Overdriven on September 17, 2011, 09:41:43 pm
It certainly would force lancers to behave more like actual lancers.

When a lancer hits a wall or an obstacle he has fucked up and should need to switch to different weapon to fight in close or try to escape, but as it stands due to the way lances function, he can fight in close combat moving very slowly, thrusting, hitting something pont blank at the beginning of the lance thrust animation and do pretty much full damage.

That will also then give 1h + shield cav more importance in their role.

Yeah and that's something that always annoys me. If I collide with a lancer, but they miss me and both our horses rear, if I can't draw and shoot and arrow into them faster than they can shove their lance in me, then I'll be dead in 1 hit even though they are at a stand still.

Edit:

If they increased the lance angle it would make lancers vs lancers more viable again as well. Right now such duels are usually a mess and a waste of time and not worth it.

I think it just needs some all round fixing. Just not the horses.
Title: Re: Horse Speed + Acceleration
Post by: BlueKnight on September 25, 2011, 12:37:29 am
+1 only for the "Edit" part  :wink: