yeah, give me a fucking respec...
Quick, sell your loomed horses to me for an apple&egg before WSE changes are balanced.
Shouldn't you guys test this before loading them onto servers?
You are the test.
well i just hope this gets fixed, and soon...^ - I rely on the speed bonus to chop the horsies down. :mrgreen:
You are the test.
It's not a nerf, it's a shift.meh could we know which stats got increased?becouse it seems that it's an all around nerf
Which means that some stats gets lowered, some get increased.
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polearm rearing removal
I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.
in b4 polearm lobby whine
Cav and archery both nerfed? Good times, good times all around.
1h+shield speed halved.
1h+shield speed halved.
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sometimes im wondering how do you talk with others in RL where you cannot use all these gifs.. hmmmm
Reduced stats are currently painful. From stop to start with my courser a 1h managed to get 3 hits on it so it was down to 90% health. Lucky it wasn't a 2h.
However, I have noticed for some reason there's a fair difference on speed between my champ courser and every other horse. Seems they are A LOT slower than me. But it still a major buff for archers and inf against cav.
you lot wanted nurfs now you are getting it lol
So this game become a pro game. And in a year are only 50 crpg masters fighting.
This is prob way more of a nerf for 1h cav than for lancers though.
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
Slower horses = less awareness needed.
The problem is acceleration is now horrible. Even if you kept the same top speeds, there's no point because it's so hard to reach that speed so you actually need a lot less awareness to play.
Instead it seems I now have to weave my horse to avoid arrows. Whereas before I relied on speed (it's a damn courser). I now have to rely on stopping/starting/turning tightly to avoid arrows. Something the Arabian was for. That doesn't take much awareness. No where near as much as needing speed did.
Wait, so dodging and weaving arrows takes less awareness than speeding in a practically straight line? Can you explain your reasoning on that one?
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.sry i'm shocked, is this buff couching real?the dmg is already so crazy i won't even talk about that, so even u give them +50 dmg on couche no difference.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
What i'd like to see:
before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!
Riding at fast speeds meaning avoiding lots of obstacles ect and other cav can catch you off guard faster as well. Whilst you're riding and shooting this is actually quite hard. Arrows are easy to avoid at higher speeds so you don't have to worry about them but you have a hell of a lot more to worry about.
Because arrows are so slow now, you can see them coming from a mile off, so spinning to avoid them isn't very hard.
Bearing in mind I'm talking from an HA perspective.
What i'd like to see:
before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!
Welp I never played HA except maybe a couple of rounds of Khergit on native when I first tried out Warband, so my knowledge of HA survival tactics is nil. I'll take your word for it :D .
It would appear horse speeds increased a bit again after the last server 'crash'.
what server?
EU1.
It was on a desert map, horse was slow as hell.
Then a village map on a hill type place and horse was back to decent speed, even on hills.
Now on ruins and horse is hellishly slow again even though it's flat ground.
Well i just got on EU1 and after hearing that its been destroyed and im surprised, I see the acceleration is bad but still playable.
Just dont get stopped otherwise its game over.
What i'd like to see:
before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!
Well HA died off. So same thing will happen to this aswell.
Anything that gets op gets nerfed it will just bring about another class to have its time.
Pitty to have Mount & Blade with out the mount (c) Sambeer
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
Please overdriven dont get your hopes up, i know your clan is a full cav clan but most changes dont get reverted, just take it on board and change your builds to suit, more riding or just drop cav alltogether.
I won't stop until I see your clan on foot, walking :wink:
Seems fine on my cavalry alt using a champion destrier and 7 riding. I think people way over-relied on excess speed instead of skillful lancing and maneuvering and it will just take them a little while to adjust, just get a little more riding skill and convert more points for an extra point in powerstrike and you are good to go. More balanced, less easy mode.
Don't worry about strategus anyway, based on new gold system no one will be buying horses for weeks to come.
What i'd like to see:Too bad a lot of maps have weird buggy grounds so your horse gets slowed down. And too bad that flat plains arent common on EU1. People say that cav is overpowered because oh my gawsh look at the scores they get. We get those kills because of people being unaware and yes we can also win a one on one or two on one but isnt every class supposed to be able to do that? To be honest these are only the skilled cav. Just like the skilled archers, two handers and one handers are on top. No-one whines about Chase being overpowered as a two hander because thats skill. Same should count for cav but no then its the class being overpowered and the rider is just playing easy mode. Seriously try and play cav. See if you can live up to the likes of Leed, Torben, Ujin and Oberyn. Oh and a couch buff is definately not needed.
before: hey, I'd like to hit top speed. How about I press W for a second or two.
after: look, a flat plain! I can use it to hit top speed and be super effective!
Seems fine on my cavalry alt using a champion destrier and 7 riding. I think people way over-relied on excess speed instead of skillful lancing and maneuvering and it will just take them a little while to adjust, just get a little more riding skill and convert more points for an extra point in powerstrike and you are good to go. More balanced, less easy mode.
Don't worry about strategus anyway, based on new gold system no one will be buying horses for weeks to come.
Has this been applied to servers other than EU? Unsure if its been done on your side yet.
Too bad a lot of maps have weird buggy grounds so your horse gets slowed down. And too bad that flat plains arent common on EU1.
NA official servers
Fair enough im sure pecores will become popular again until its patched in :P
Instead of trying to "fix" cavalry in some weird ways, try to "fix" what weapons are anti cav. With the current footmen agi and weapons / cav lance angle and maneuver, nearly half the melee players are indeed anticav, either with a pike or spear (normal) or a 2h sword (seriously wtf...).
Damn, why did I never think of this?
We will nerf cavalry by removing pikes and long spears! Great idea!
Damn, why did I never think of this?
We will nerf cavalry by removing pikes and long spears! Great idea!
must be totally unplayable as a 1h cav.
i want a respec if it stays like this, looms aswell please...
i want a respec if it stays like this, looms aswell please...
Dont worry this will bring more ha back into the game due to increased accuracy :P I'm a horse thrower and I am already seeing a huge improvement in top speed shooting... people will be crying about ha again before long :D
When they destroyed HA a few patches ago they re-buffed cos it was just over-nerfed.
I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.Truly music to me ears, milord, brought tears rollin' down me eyes!
Good change, horses are way too maneuverable, with less speed perhaps it'll balance more out.
words
ok thanks for the constructive approach on a long post.
i m speaking of being able to couch a poleman in front attack
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...
Reminds me of all those sissies that gave up archery when the arrow speed nerf came into play. Suckers are flavours of the month players more often then not.
What's fun in inf/cav battles:
Infantry having a chance to counter cav not only by using pikes. A cav that can come up close and does not solely have to rely on speed to fight the infantry, but also on maneuverability and short weapon speed.
What's NOT fun in inf/cav battles:
Getting couched. There is no counter measure to couches except jumping out of the way. Cav having to rely solely on speed and if that speed is not reached, riding away. Never really coming close to inf except for that one couch/stab. This will prolong the rounds and make sure cav are the last class to go down in a round.
This community is truly crap, yesterday there were 30 horsies now there are five people on both teams...
What do you expect ? What would you do if suddenly your weapon of choice had it's speed rating reduced to 30 ? :lol:
CRPG just gets worse and worse, im done with it.
only one thig is clear then: we need a RECAP post by devs on what is intended, where they want to go and what are the options they are taknig into account...
i ve never seen such a big one day topic lol.
as a cav player for many generations and with an heirloomed horse the low end acceleration needs to be increase dramatically. Taking awhile to get to top speed is alright, but at low speeds it should be MUCH more responsive. in 2-3 steps a horse can get about half speed. right now its just walking, not even trotting or rouncing
hmm didnt notice realy any differance but still.
hmm didnt notice realy any differance but still.
Good bye, hope you find a game that suits you.
Also, this topic should be called horse acceleration not horse speed, two different things.
Well you do have jars for eyeglasses so...nah 2day only been playing for like5 min so yess:D
over just put a poll on and see what the outcome is :P
Last 6 days I play with practice longsword, gen before that I used pitchfork, I use whatever I can find on the battlefield regardless do I have wpf for it or not. I'm not the right man to answer your question :wink:
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.
There, I said it.
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.
There, I said it.
In other news, this thread is fucking stupid until finetuning is finished.
There, I said it.
I think what chadz is trying to say guys, is:
Be patient. They are working on it. It will get better once they're done tweaking. So relax and keep the rage in check. Be nice.
If you nerf an entire part of crpg so heavily, people expect answers.
Pitty to have Mount & Blade with out the mount (c) Sambeer
I expect you to send me 500 via PayPal.
I have no fucking idea what they are doing, I code cool stuff that everyone likes. Why is it always me that catches the flak :(
I expect you to send me 500 via PayPal.
Because in real life, shit has to roll up hill to the boss before he rolls it back downhill to the workers for punishment.
lol you must be joking, horses are still in the game..and you can still couch people ...and you can still use bullshit 1h from horseback...and you can still bump slash/stab. so sorry you got this game breaking nerf, that leveled you somewhat in terms of balance and what i think fairness. why should you or any cav be able to stack riding skill and make the horse move faster? answer me that
lol you must be joking, horses are still in the game..and you can still couch people ...and you can still use bullshit 1h from horseback...and you can still bump slash/stab. so sorry you got this game breaking nerf, that leveled you somewhat in terms of balance and what i think fairness. why should you or any cav be able to stack riding skill and make the horse move faster? answer me that
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.
I see that cavalry has been so OP for so long that everyone is under the delusion that they should still be able to go full speed and couch going up a hill/mountain like mountain goats.
well ive made several broken horse STF characters with more riding than needed, and it is beyond ridiculous. in that aspect the nerf was well deserved, but its not like cav are useless like everyone on one before this claims. i dont lance all the time so i cant sit here and give my two cents on how you should play your class, but it just seems like now cav is slightly more balanced and less "omg bullet train just couched me" maybe it just takes a little bit more effort or build reconstruction to regain your advantage you have over everyone in the game without a bow
well ive made several broken horse STF characters with more riding than needed, and it is beyond ridiculous. in that aspect the nerf was well deserved, but its not like cav are useless like everyone on one before this claims. i dont lance all the time so i cant sit here and give my two cents on how you should play your class, but it just seems like now cav is slightly more balanced and less "omg bullet train just couched me" maybe it just takes a little bit more effort or build reconstruction to regain your advantage you have over everyone in the game without a bow
I think what chadz is trying to say guys, is:
Be patient. They are working on it. It will get better once they're done tweaking. So relax and keep the rage in check. Be nice.
I have already said I don't mind the nerf overly on the right maps. On big open desert maps there's little problem. It works fine.
On the mass of hilly village maps we have though, there's hardly any point taking cav.
How you view the nerf is incredibly map dependent.
Edit:
It's quite bad looking through my steam list of GK and out of the 12 that are on, there are only 2 playing crpg. When there'd usually be all of us in game by now. And these are guys that are dedicated cav day in day out. They don't switch to the most popular build at the time or leave something as soon as it gets nerfed.
I see that you, yourself is under the assumption that horses should be mountain goats.
Also, how ironic, "They don't switch to the most popular build at the time or leave something as soon as it gets nerfed"
Earlier that day.
"It's quite bad looking through my steam list of GK and out of the 12 that are on, there are only 2 playing crpg. When there'd usually be all of us in game by now."
Meh, still topping scoreboards, along with Muffin and Lizardman atm.
So instead of altering 8% speed/accel/maneuver per riding to point....to say 5%, (roughly 1/3 or 33% value change) you just up and get rid of the entire bonus. I guess subtlety isnt your forte, when values get cut in half or more.
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
Couching one hit but has less range that a one hand...
Couching one hit but has less range that a one hand...
Meh, still topping scoreboards, along with Muffin and Lizardman atm.
that's why i don't play CRPG anymore... :cry:
You'll be missed...
NOT!
He is missed, old school RS member.
He is missed, old school RS member.
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
Hmm did the values get adjusted again or am I just getting used to it? Acceleration feels much better than before now.
Except I don't think anyone in RS actually knows who he is, I've been in RS for fucklong and no one knew exactly who AgentQ was, not me, not socrate, not onimaho, not dexxtaa, not gafferjack, no one.
in my opinion, cav is all about speed and range. A slow horse is a dead horse. Game lost it's feeling when the 40 degree polarm thrust was introduced.
light cav you mean.
Heavy cav its about shock and awe.
Yeah but with tons of polearms being able to stop heavy cav, it's kinda a shame heavy cav charges are near enough useless.
The shock and awe part works though. One time GK did it, the enemy team was so scared they formed a shield wall in the village entrance on ruins. Even though we probably killed 2 of them in the charge and did more damage to our own team than to them :lol:
thats why you gotta wait until infantry is engaged with enemy infantry and then attack the flanks. Hammer and anvil style.
in my opinion, cav is all about speed and range. A slow horse is a dead horse. Game lost it's feeling when the 40 degree polarm thrust was introduced.
i am rarely on TS. Onimaho and dexxtaa both know me. I killed Dexxtaa plenty of times.
Yeah we tried that. Problem is with a proper cav charge is that regardless of where you form up your easy to see. Those pesky polearms are awaiting :P Probably about half of us got stopped in our tracks...the other half probably took a fair amount of health with bumps and only a couple got kills. You kinda expect a properly organised cav charge to do a lot more.
Individual heavy cav that's fine though.
not enough people to do a full charge, more people=more mass=more effective shock and awe. As it is, its probably better to do solo or 2man heavy cav squads and rape the mass of infantry from many directions, rather than one concentrated mass of lancers.
Hmm did the values get adjusted again
Yep.
Acceleration is much better, even if top speed isn't great. Thanks.
Not enough people? There were 15 of us, about 9 or so GK and randomers who joined in :P
But yeah it worked from the awe perspective. It just didn't from a kill perspective.
I'm just surprised it wasn't so effective. And that was against random pubbys.
yeah not enough people, heavy cav charges was a psychological weapon more than an actual damage weapon. The thundering oh hooves, the glistening of the armor, the terrible charge and carnage of a horse on man encounter, this would break most militia and mercenary battle lines. This obviously doesn't work in a game where theres no such thing as morale, because when people die they just lose the round. IMO there should be a lance thats couchable only and is equal to the length of a longspear, only pikes can counter those cav.
Yep.
Can you buff us, agi balanced pedestrians, a little bit?
Me and alot of other RS members have saw you on the steamchat long ago like maybe twice in several months and you were never talking ingame, it has been a running joke for awhile in RS because you were so silent and no one was really sure how you joined.
What is buff?
I can only say well done!
Nerf the horsemen - they didnt have to pay more than others... Lance, Weapons, Armors, Shields, their horses...
And plz buff those goddamn ranged people. They are so weak.
XBows can only one shot people in fullplate, plz make it that they just have to aim at someone with their crosshair and the one dies after that, without shooting the bolt.
Oh and i forgot the weak archers, their shotguns with an unlimited reach of dmg (arrows make nearly fulldmg even over a half map) and their shooting speed. Jump, Shot, Jump, Shot and so on... and hitting shit like gods.
Oh and before i forget it, take my sarcasm!
actually i have an great idea.. just youtube barrel racing or something so you can actually see how a horse really maneuvers, then you can implement this into the game.. i mean really tho. just keep driving it right into the dirt.. it may go from not even really being a horse to being even more not really like a horse lol.. dude.. horses are supposed to haul ass, even way more than it was.. they can also run 40-50mph..This is the truth.
actually i have an great idea.. just youtube barrel racing or something so you can actually see how a horse really maneuvers, then you can implement this into the game.. i mean really tho. just keep driving it right into the dirt.. it may go from not even really being a horse to being even more not really like a horse lol.. dude.. horses are supposed to haul ass, even way more than it was.. they can also run 40-50mph..
Pretty much any equine sports show the natural agility and speed of horses. To be honest though, it would really only apply to the lighter horse breeds. While a big mailed horse with a rider really isn't affected by the weight it's carrying (it'd be like you running around with a 30lb back pack, can get rough eventually, but you can overcome it with training and familiarity) they ARE still going to be limited in their speed and agility by their breed characteristics. Some horse breeds just aren't as agile as others, but they make up for it by being larger, tougher, and more stable.While this is true, the fast horse breeds in cRPG (Destrier, Courser) are no longer as fast as they should be. I say again, nothing needed to be changed. Don't know why people expect a fully armored cav with a lance coming to be anything but strong.
A while back a couple of people finally caught on (I was there :mrgreen:)
You are just Jelly.
I was talking about like september-december last year.
You can't have that. It's simply not possible. A cav will not attack an aware enemy if in optimal conditions he doesn't win. Now that 2h do have the advantage vs cav, cav don't try to lance aware 2h anymore.
If you are an inf and you are getting couched, it's your fault. It's extremely easy to strike first given the shit range it has. Couched lance is only useful against unaware enemies (and is indeed much better than lance pokeing in that case because it won't miss half the time for no reason and has much more chances to onehit). If you are caught unaware, it's obviously your fault too.
With those two comments you are sort of negating the point of cavalry. Cavalry isn't about fighting someone for x seconds then killing him or dying, it's about swiftly charging then getting away. The biggest advantage of cav is choosing it's fights. You can't take that away, making a class better against cav will just mean that cav will be less tempted to attack that class.
On a side note, what I repeatedly see in horse complaints is that infantry aren't really crying about any horses, except the arab warhorse. It's the only one footman and ranged aren't able to dodge consistently, because of it's crazy maneuver. It's also the only one making the rider able to kill an enemy horse, then kill it's rider while he's on the ground, defenseless (doesn't happen often, but is quite lame honestly).
that's why i don't play CRPG anymore... :cry:
I was saying that for me it is much more fun to be in close encounter battles with cav when I play my inf class (1hd/2hd) and with inf when I play my 1hd cav class.
As cav I - besides going for the easy, unaware kills - enjoy a fair duel with a melee inf and the other way around. Having to dodge couches and mindnumbingly downblock lance thrusts is not my idea of fun on the other hand.
Therefore: please don't give cav more reason to stay out of the reach of all melee, except when there is a mile of even ground available.
Btw: I play somewhat equally as well on horse as melee. So no biased request here.
Meh, Arrabian still fast as hell, MAGANDA still killing people... :(
Meh, Arrabian still fast as hell, MAGANDA still killing people... :(
I don't mind skilled players getting kills :D (Leed, Kerrigan, Chagan, Oberyn...)
MAGANDA is the worst player that ever played this mod, right after are Michael and The_Finn.
Devs got no balls, but they are excused if they are girls IRL :)
Maganda is still skilled.
But I don't mind, I won't play in these rags forever. In full armor lance stab don't hurt much but seems that couching got buffed which still means press-X-1-hit-noob-kill...
Gotta make sure the archers can still shoot down horsies, so they decreased the acceleration, I bet. :mrgreen:
The wonderful world of balance.
...wut
Archers, throwers, xbowmen. They all took down my horse in 1-shot before. To be honest, I have no idea what everyone is talking about... probably because I haven't played yet today. Something horrible happen to cav (again)?
I'm lobbying for polearm rearing removal and HP buff.
HP buff is not needed. I think that archer's dmg should be just lowered. This is madness that an archer with loomed stuff can kill loomed tincan with 2 shots ( I am the example of such a tincan ).
I think that archer's dmg should be just lowered. This is madness that an archer with loomed stuff can kill loomed tincan with 2 shots ( I am the example of such a tincan ).
one of the ideas floating around is to make them harder to use (harder to accel and steer), same top speed, more hp to compensate a bit, buff couching, some other things.
The idea is that horses are ridiculously easy to use right now. People should have more awareness to use horses. Before, they were GoKarts.
But thats just my opinion, I'm just watching as a bystander.
(click to show/hide)
As far as k/d goes, no it doesn't really, just changes the whole role of cavalry in a cRPG battle.
Eh... no, it doesn't. You should still be the shock troop dealing with unawares, taking down tunnel visioned players and bumping/couching/thrusting the ones that's engaging your team. Low risk - high reward style of play.. That's what cav was about. It still is.
Also, the jumping wasn't a too harsh archer nerf. I can agree on that. :wink:
Played my lancer yesterday, and I wonder why you're whining about this? If you play your class right, it shouldn't matter much at all.
In all fairness this thread was created with the first nerf, which was very heavy. They then made it a bit better again. And you only just played so of course it's not as noticeable.
Now I haven't started up crpg yet today, but I assume it's still the same as it was when I went to bed :P
I think he is talking about the first nerf. If he's talking about the current one, I can barely tell the difference between that and the way it was before any nerf on acceleration. So no reason to whine. Maybe because the first one was so bad.
I've played like that in clan matches in Native against the best, and that's the way to do it. Risking cav can do very well from time to time, but the smart one will generally deliver better results.
Played it during the first nerf, yes. Was maybe a tad harsh, but shouldn't have affected it too much.
Be my guest, Oberyn, call me a noob if you want. My view on things is that survival is the #1 most important thing as cav. I'll rape engaged people in their back all day long for a good multiplier, and will not die unless the team fails. I keep away from other cav and pikers because that goes under the category 'high risk - high reward', not 'low risk - high reward'. I don't rate cav at their super duper timing in lancing duels, because it's too risky. Cav with brains is what I rate. Cav like Leed.
I've played like that in clan matches in Native against the best, and that's the way to do it. Risking cav can do very well from time to time, but the smart one will generally deliver better results.
But what will we do without looms that double the armor on our gloves, ETC. Oh, right. Be men again.
I happen to think taken down enemy cav is a huge bonus to the rest of the team. Having cav superiority can change a losing round into a winning one.
Btw this is all as a lancer cav, what is your horse char Gurnni? 1h cav were much more badly hit by hit, practically unplayable from what I heard.
Well they could maybe nerf lances with the WSE, get rid of that bullshit when the lancers horse is moving 2mph and his lance hits something at the START of the thrust animation and does full damage.
Possibly. I thought one of the advantages of WSE was being able to change the lance angle to something in between the 90 degree and couch lance angle. If you changed it to something in between, and maybe fixed some of the odder aspects of lance damage. Then it might be a fair change.
It certainly would force lancers to behave more like actual lancers.
When a lancer hits a wall or an obstacle he has fucked up and should need to switch to different weapon to fight in close or try to escape, but as it stands due to the way lances function, he can fight in close combat moving very slowly, thrusting, hitting something pont blank at the beginning of the lance thrust animation and do pretty much full damage.
That will also then give 1h + shield cav more importance in their role.