Played 80 man NA Battle server today, and it's just sad how there's so many archers... it seems the Legolas syndrom is still in cRPG.
I will reiterate forever that this is a problem with the PLAYERS of the game and not the game itself. The only way to solve this is to either get rid of ranged altogether, however that's not a viable option.
Give gamers a game with great melee mechanics and they'll choose the path of gayness by shooting at everyone.
Yeah, archery should not play a role in a medieval game. :)
But on a serious note, there is lots of ways to ajust your playstyle to a healthy amount of archers, you guys should be smart enough to figure it out someday.
The real problem is the overabundance of 2H players on the NA servers.
Less 2H means Less ranged.
1H's who try to fight 2H and fail pick up a bow, crossbow, or axes to compensate.
Well, the way I see it, new players get easily discouraged when they start because they can't compete with anyone for at least a day of playing, so they notice that they're getting killed by one or two arrows or bolts all the time and end up going with that. Then on the other side of the spectrum, a lot of veteran players have a propensity for getting a little tired of the "same old" fights and decide to play as a ranger for a while.
I do kinda wish people would cut it out though. This is the only game with any sort of decent melee system. If people want to play an archer they might as well just mod Bad Company 2 to have lower muzzle velocity.
So...
Everyone should just play a 1h/shielder? Good to know.
Let's put a limit of time players can be archers xD
Sure, coming from a guy that played 95% of his time on cRPG as archer... your opinion is certainly not biased...
/sarcasm off.
I understand range should be there but when 90% of ur deaths are due to archers (I dont care about xbowers/throwers cuz these need to be dedicated to use it efficiently), the game becomes really old. If you guys (archers that can't play well other classes) want to pew pew, why dont u do so in a FPS, not a medieval battle/siege simulator.
So...
Everyone should just play a 1h/shielder? Good to know.
... people that have experience and talent in melee combat ... killed by someone they can not reach.Right, with you so far
I just dont know how this make it cheap, gay, talentless way to play.And then you lost me. Perhaps your lack of comprehension stems from eating too much paste in grammar school?
I will reiterate forever that this is a problem with the PLAYERS of the game and not the game itself. The only way to solve this is to either get rid of ranged altogether, however that's not a viable option.
Give gamers a game with great melee mechanics and they'll choose the path of gayness by shooting at everyone.
They are all scared of death and prefer shoot people at a safe range.
IN A GAME?
I'm personally fine with archer Pew Pew, but I cannot stand it when an archer runs away from a 1v1 fight. I think archers should be weighed down a bit more as to discourage from such an dishonorable tactic.
Increasing the weight of each bag of arrows would be a good solution in my opinion.
TL:DR Version:
rant
You didn't really disprove the point of the thread: Ranged users are engaging in extreme homoerotic activities.
Whether you love ranged or not is irrelevant. :P
P.S. Whether you can HIDE to avoid ranged fire or not is also irrelevant, the point is that getting hit from ranged weaponry in the ONLY game out with good melee combat instead of the 1000's and 1000's of FPS games out there is gay. Plainly, simply, fabulously gay.
Hell, I like melee more then range, I just don't understand how some users complain about it so much, yet do pretty well when I see them play and "deal with it" in an effective fashion (not that you would know from their posts on the forums :lol:).
Oh that's easy though.
I can go fishing and pull catch after catch out just fine.
I can go fishing and do the same while some fuckwit is going "LALALALALALALALALALALALALA" at high volume while dancing around like a jackass in the boat, flicking me in the ears, drooling on himself and generally being a paste eater around me. Even though I "deal with it" and still do well doesn't mean that I don't hate that piece of shit and plan on bitching about him. :mrgreen:
Lots of archers are just there for show; occasionally land an arrow but are generally poor shots with poor situational awareness. Good archers are just like any other good player at a class; they make the class seem much easier than it actually is.
There are plenty of counters to archery in game; armor, movement, and shields. There are a few archers that I simply try to avoid approaching but most others are pretty easy to clean up if you know what you're doing and come with the necessary defenses.
If you don't like ranged play, work on getting a server set up of your own where you can turn on melee only.
[...] I will be damned if I have to spend every last point on archer for me to be a proper archer, and then be further penalized with the new slot system, to have you demand that I fight you with my 0 slot weapon at 0PS and 1 wpf just so you can use your dedicated melee to kick my teeth in. Dishonorable my ass, there is nothing honorable about you curbstomping someone who does not even wear proper armor. Even a strongbow user who can afford to take a 1 hander that is real and proper, and invests in power strike, can still not compete properly with an equal skilled melee user.[...]
I think that this is needed and should be tested so that maybe people will learn to show respect for another.
Me and my kind? You mean people who play every single class, have multiple alts, and enjoy the dynamic freedom of personal choice?
Yeah, archery should not play a role in a medieval game. :)
But on a serious note, there is lots of ways to ajust your playstyle to a healthy amount of archers, you guys should be smart enough to figure it out someday.
The CRPG_TunaTown server is melee-only Thursday through Sunday,rock-paper-scissor dont work if theres to many papers for the scissor to cut throughpretty princessespeople that just want to melee should give it a try. Maybe convince a group of other melee people to head over there with you if there's too many ranged for your liking on the more populated servers. Personally, I like the whole rock-paper-scissors aspect of ranged, cavalry and melee that forces you to adapt your tactics or character build to win. The game would be really boring without a variety of classes and the usually empty melee-only server speaks to that.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4685.msg82626.html#msg82626 (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4685.msg82626.html#msg82626)
For anyone raging at archery and xbows in cRPG, go play native for a while, then get back to us. It's not for nothing they've been nerfed repeatedly over the course of the mod.
How about... making arrows glance? If melee weapons can do it, providing the circumstances, why should a 'weak' archer be able to penetrate any kind of armor from any distance? :P
Dude, there where lots of Archers in medievil times get over it. Incase you forgot Archers won many battles E.G the english longbow and Agincourt. You are supposed to hate and fear archers and make it one of your teams main objectives to take them out before they pick your team appart. If you must hide behind some cover or something. use this - :) ~ Crixus
No, i mean people who think that 80% ranged is a normal state of every battle, and people who tell other people to grab a shield or host their own melee-only server.
Doesn't the problem lie in (no)teamwork? With a tight team you can combat pretty much anything, get together, shields at the front, advance. It beats everyone splitting up into 2 groups at every corner.Except this doesn't work at all. Shields no longer have any cover apart from a slight area in front of the shielder. There is no way to cover teammates. Also remember that they camp hills/roofs/anything with a high elevation and they just go LULZ and shoot above the shielders.
Archers need buff, there are so many unshielded people around.
Are you serious? That argument is even better than Agincourt.Shielders almost disappeared, and you want armor buff...LOL
Archers are a part of the game and I think they are fine as they are. I think the problem is the armor, especially 23k+ armor. It reduces your money very fast (money you need since market) but you get 4-shotted (instead of 3) anyway. Fullplate should be a reliable arrow protection.
Also might I point out, that even full plate back in the days didn't always succesfully protect you against bodkins or internal injuries.
Bandit your clearly an idiot...read up on the internet there are tons of battles won by archers. And TBH shields have too much coverage... they have a tiny shield and you aim for their legs and its somehow attracted to the shield , same for the head its BS also why would the shield have coverage anywhere else other then where the shield is... its stupid and unrealistic . If you want a game without archers play something else but shut up moaning all the time and just play the game dont you think archers get annoyed when they are run down by cavlry or chased round the map by a noob shielder looking for an easy kill. I thought so.... so stop your whineing.Okay so if the archer is actually aiming for the legs or the head the shield should be completely useless? That would make everything much harder for shielders, and there really is no other way to have it, shielders are shielders so that they can block projectiles. Also, why do you think shielders' are noobs cause they chase you around the map? If they wouldn't, you would just shoot everyone, you're the one who's 'whineing'.
Dude, there where lots of Archers in medievil times get over it. Incase you forgot Archers won many battles E.G the english longbow and Agincourt. You are supposed to hate and fear archers and make it one of your teams main objectives to take them out before they pick your team appart. If you must hide behind some cover or something. use this - :) ~ Crixus
The Hundred Years' War was dominated by it... im not scouring the web for you do it yourself.
After 500 years, the english propaganda works perfect
Bandit your clearly an idiot...read up on the internet there are tons of battles won by archers. And TBH shields have too much coverage... they have a tiny shield and you aim for their legs and its somehow attracted to the shield , same for the head its BS also why would the shield have coverage anywhere else other then where the shield is... its stupid and unrealistic . If you want a game without archers play something else but shut up moaning all the time and just play the game dont you think archers get annoyed when they are run down by cavlry or chased round the map by a noob shielder looking for an easy kill. I thought so.... so stop your whineing.
I never said the longbow pwned tincans? its obvious that the arrows can only penetrate them where the armour is weak, visor slits etc but there are records of both arrows glancing of plate armour and of arrows piercing through, and there have been recent tests of it showing the arrow piercing the armour but not enough to kill.. so its open to debate realy and i dont care what you think. Besides your going off the topic of crpg becoming a medievil css thats what i didnt agree with. Enough said.
Exageration of ranged numbers - 80% of server is not ranged, use correct facts from stats (Pecores server records kills by what weapon which could help), otherwise the exageration weakens your argument.
To hear you talk everyone who's not a 1h/sh is the spawn of Satan and "abusing" the game somehow.
Please make all 0 slot weapons unable to block. that shall help cav hunting down archers :D
Honestly, I wouldn't grab a shield. I wouldn't host my own server. I'd play the game as it is, and I do, and I encourage you to dealwithit and do the same, or take some real action, because your issue lies with the personal playing choices of others, not with the balance of the game itself.
I hand out headshots all day on my alt using the Khergit Bow, 18/18 archer with 5 in IF and 5 in PS for 1hand sidearm (no prof). Fairly small reticule at 154 prof, can't wait to retire to a horse archer and go 173 prof.
Dishonorable huh?
Archery and cavalry, has been considered cowardly even by the greeks. (Through history, it's considered dishonorable)
They refused themselves to do it.
What's so honorable about melee?
Both can fight back, not shoot and run.
Honor dishonor? Everyone has their own set of rules to those to words. Play by yours and do not judge others so harshly.
Cura nihil aliud nisi ut valeas.
Two things:
For archer won battles - Every Mongolian battle against Eastern Europe arrows from horse archers won the fight and they killed plenty of teutonic, polish, and lithuanian knights in plate mail.
Exageration of ranged numbers - 80% of server is not ranged, use correct facts from stats (Pecores server records kills by what weapon which could help), otherwise the exageration weakens your argument.
Been playing on EU Pecores
50 vs 50 battles, even teams, group tactics, archers won't dominate because wise use of siege shields/shield walls, cavalry really has to time their charge unless they want to get poked to death, flanking and all other cool shit
Then back to NA
Most of times 80% players online are 2H, greatsword wielding poopsockers or cav that blindly charges, everyone is whining if some people are actually managing to kill them without being in full plate, archers are OP, throwing is OP, everything that their sword can't reach and is affecting their K:D is OP.
e: I think what matters in this is the fact that most of NA maps are some sort of retarded citymaps or things like that where you can't really outmanuver good archers because if they'd have more plains and battlefield-like maps people would baww about horseys.
ee: Protip on horseys, pike costs like 5k and has 300 reach.
Unlike what most archers that posted here think, this is not a nerf archery thread. They have a too high accuracy that is true but thats another topic. This is a place to discuss how ridiculous it is becoming. With the shield forcefield nerf and the fact that most maps (cities and such) are giving a big advantage by letting them camp on a place unreachable (they break the ladder once on the roof) and you cant force them to jump down until u killed all the other players of their team, giving them a huge advantave. I say lets completly disable ladders in battle servers and give back the forcefield to shielders (and im not shielder nor 2hander).Make ''master of the field'' flag appear faster. Problem solved.
Make ''master of the field'' flag appear faster. Problem solved.
While you run at the flag u give a big advantage to the archer(s) by putting more distance between you and him/them. Removing ladders would be simple and fix the problem. It was already done in siege with the defenders: can't spawn with ladders.
Hmm. More whining. My favorite thing. So how about remove deployable ladders from battle? Would that be a good start? Also I'm now intrigued to the point that I will make a high level archer myself now just to see what all the whining is about and so I can know if it is indeed overpowered or not. Funnily I remember my polearm character wearing heavy armor with 10IF I could basically ignore 95% of all archers because few of them had enough PD to actually hurt me. Most of the time it was just glance after glance till they learned to go for softer targets.
(click to show/hide)
Sarcasm at a new level
So...
Everyone should just play a 1h/shielder? Good to know.
Your play style is feminin :mrgreen:
I changed my mind from my original post: archers are evil, cowardly, and a problem (other projectile weapons do not exist--there is no xbow, and there's no such thing as throwing--so they're not a problem). So problematic is their presence, that I propose we nerf them. Let's make them slower, that way they can't run away from me--it's ridiculous that I cannot easily chase them down when wearing full plate, I mean, they're practically naked, and no person could possibly run faster than a trot when so unencumbered. Let the developers place large lead blocks upon the nipples of all archers, it'll work.
I also think that bows shoot too quickly, I mean historically an archer could only fire one arrow per hour (I know this because I'm historically inclined). It would be in the mods interest to conform to history, since history was very much balanced. The rest of this paragraph would normally be taken up by entirely unrelated, pointless historical inaccuracies which in no way pertain to the present arguement. Example: european knights fought with fish and wore slippers. And so, we need a nerf, because of history.
Anyway, I'd like to end this paragraph by stating that I'm not biased in any way against archers. I have an archer alt, which means I can bitch and complain about that particular class to my hearts content (regardless of the contentness of others' hearts). I certainly don't play as a melee player who does not use a shield of any sort, otherwise I'd be biased. Can't have that.
It's funny to see no archer ever complains about melee. And most melees (including shield users) keep wanting it to be nerfed.
The only possible conclusion is that it is all perfectly balanced, that all archers are wise grown-ups and all melees are ragey teenagers.
Ad hominem in all it's splendor.
One of my many characters. I suppose that means that my 24/15 two-hander is feminine as well. Also my 21/18 polearm. Or that you are ignorant, and would prefer everyone play within a narrowly defined set of classes which you personally enjoy, never playing anything you do not.
It's funny to see no archer ever complains about melee. And most melees (including shield users) keep wanting it to be nerfed.You not noticing them, doesn't mean they're not complaining. Every now and then, a new thread about how bows were historical much stronger and blablabla pops up, but I guess mostly from new players who aren't taken seriously in general. And seasoned archers mostly know their ways in shooting as well as melee and don't care for changes. Archers seem to lack the group between beginners and pros and those people are those who whine most of the time. Haven't seen much of the known heros whine about how strong/weak somethings is.
The only possible conclusion is that it is all perfectly balanced, that all archers are wise grown-ups and all melees are ragey teenagers.
Ad hominem in all it's splendor.
Shouldn't this be in the balance discussion forum :?:
lol
The last few pages of responses are hillarious because apparently noone really paid any attention to what the thread was about. It's NOT a "nerf ranged" thread. It's not an "archer" hate thread. It's merely a thread about how there's a gigantumoungus number of ranged PLAYERS on the server(s).
Again, as I said before, it's about the PLAYERS not the game itself. The thread is simply bitching about the sheer volume of "fuck melee, I want to play an FPS" mind sets in the game. Sadly it's not a cRPG issue, but a warband issue as a whole. The greatest (only) melee combat game we have at our disposal but people would rather play a robin hood counter strike mod. :rolleyes:
That's your interpretation. How about "Goddamn I'm tired of being 1 shotted by cavalry and they just fucking run away from pikes, so I've GOT to get RANGED to deal with the bastards!" But go ahead and think what you want to think. It's a RANGED problem, not a response to a CAVALRY situation :rolleyes:
You know why it has become a "problem"? The throwing nerf took away the short range weapon. Only thing left is the long range of bow and xbow and that's where people went in order to counter the cavalry. Contrary to popular opinion, some players don't like riding a horse, yet need to deal with them. Bring back the short range throwing option and you wont see you being hit from across the map quite so much. Or remove cavalry.
Oh my god, you're so right! You don't play ranged, but you can read the minds of those who do!. Goddamn, you should get a psychic connection 1-800 number!
if this was on me, then i have to prove you wrong, i actually DO play an archer
That's your interpretation. How about "Goddamn I'm tired of being 1 shotted by cavalry and they just fucking run away from pikes, so I've GOT to get RANGED to deal with the bastards!" But go ahead and think what you want to think. It's a RANGED problem, not a response to a CAVALRY situation :rolleyes:
You know why it has become a "problem"? The throwing nerf took away the short range weapon. Only thing left is the long range of bow and xbow and that's where people went in order to counter the cavalry. Contrary to popular opinion, some players don't like riding a horse, yet need to deal with them. Bring back the short range throwing option and you wont see you being hit from across the map quite so much. Or remove cavalry.
OMG, you rolled an archer once. You are indeed the guru of all opinions :rolleyes: I got a news flash, most who have been playing this for any length of time has tried every class there is. It doesn't make you, or them an expert in them :idea:
Show me one ranged player on this list. You fucking whiny bundle of stickss.
Ranged got nerfed into the ground, 3/4ths of all servers are full of 2 handers. What the fuck do you want?
Show me one ranged player on this list. You fucking whiny bundle of stickss.
Archery is a SUPPORT class, you can now leave.
Nothing but a bunch of whiny bitches, and it shows.
Funny, out of the 45 players on the server right now, 37 of them have a ranged weapon on them. Bow, x-bow or thrown weapons.
You're still missing the point. The point isn't to NERF ranged. Simply that there's TOO MANY bundle of sticksS in the game: AKA ranged players
I think the ranged problem comes from the steep learning curve of this game. It's so much easier to learn to be a decent archer than a two hander or even a shielder. There's not much you can do to change that.
Maybe removing target reticules and forcing 1st person view is the way to go. Problem with this is the possibility of view hacks that would give the edge to the hack users.
You're still missing the point. The point isn't to NERF ranged. Simply that there's TOO MANY bundle of sticksS in the game: AKA ranged players
And what can we do? Nerf the archery completely like throwing was nerfed and FORCE every archer to play melee?
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Show me one ranged player on this list. You fucking whiny bundle of stickss.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Show me one ranged player on this list. You fucking whiny bundle of stickss.
I did just notice something on that list. Almost every player there has triple heirloomed armor (some with triple loomed gauntlets as well) and its at least twice as good armor as archers because archers get a much bigger nerf for wearing heavy armor and almost every single person on the list can take at least 6 arrows from my MW strongbow, MW arrows with 6 powerdraw before dying, often as many as 8 (excluding headshots)
(i actually was looking for Tydeus on that list, he must play on another server, i remember shooting him 8 times at close range yesterday and it didn't kill him, both goretooth and allers were on at same time with similar results when facing other archers).
Maybe we should do a nerf armor thread/strength builds thread for people that can't be killed and just shrug off blows and 1 hit kill almost everyone else including lightly armored archers. Main reason archers can't get on that list - very very difficult to keep your deaths that low (counts more toward a high multiplier) unless you can take 6-8 hits without dying. I would love to see how few of their deaths are from ranged. Main purpose of archers - stun them in the middle of their 1-hit kills rampage so melee teammates get free shot (though will likely glance on their armor).
Well that's just what happens when your local pub is suddenly invaded by the gay pride parade after party.You would get a lot of free drinks, but just make sure to get out of there before your own backentrance gets jammed.
just fyi there are melee-only servers so if you're slap-jawed enough not to take on the heat of full blown battle server, you can go there and fart around.
Archers, shielders and cavalry rule any kind of organized fight. Yes if you use as example single archers in public server with more than 80 people on average, cavalry and 2handers will have a better K/D, but give me a bunch of good archers with some athletics coupled with some cavalry and everyone could easely beat any other setup. Took native as example, where the lack of class limits has made every clan match turning into a "massive counter-strike wait for the flag with cav" crap.
I don't fear much archers in public crpg, but I say that strategus will still see the old archerspamfest
All your stupidity is already shown on your piglet face, no need to throw it around some more.
Guess what: we know about the melee-only servers and guess even more what: we don't want to play there. We don't want to play without ranged units. We don't want ranged units getting more nerfed. We do, however, want battles without 100 out of 120 people shooting. If you think that's how these battles should look like then you're even more stupid then your pigface can reveal. What we want is balance. Some of us have ideas, some are good and some are bad but we don't want ranged gone from this game for good.
Now try reading the topic again, smartass.
You should check out Ripper's video (2nd one) with the 50 v 50 fight. The fallen archers used good team tactics, but what really won the fight was cavalry and then 1handed shielders. Thats probably how it will play out in Strategus as you might not realize it, but archery has been nerfed to less than half of what it was (like 5-6 patch nerfs at this point).Well, we don't know how strategus economy will work, but if the horses will still be so freaking overpriced compared to archers full equipment, I think that archers camping some good spot, with some guys manovring to set up crossfires will be the standard.
Oh and the armor change thing will make glancing less common, but they will be able to take 1-3 more hits as the armor absorbs more damage, not sure if that is going to be better or not.
No, that's exactly what I'm addressing. More archers should me more squishy targets for people who work together. Stop pretending this isn't a "nerf archery" thread.yeah, that works assuming that your opponents are retarded and aren't going to set up some teamplay too.... Come back when they'll start running into different direction while pew pewing your back while you are facing their cavalry
Yes, archery is easy to pick up but being good at it is completely different stuff. I can dodge any regular archer without problems and a good one will still have to hit me 2-3 times to get me down in medium armor.
So what the hell are you guys complaining about?
just fyi there are melee-only servers so if you're slap-jawed enough not to take on the heat of full blown battle server, you can go there and fart around.
For all my time on these forums, I haven't seen more retarded reply than this, seriously?
abloo bu bu bu bu
Well, we don't know how strategus economy will work, but if the horses will still be so freaking overpriced compared to archers full equipment, I think that archers camping some good spot, with some guys manovring to set up crossfires will be the standard.Not to start that discussion, but the reason the fallens/HRE did win was because they had much more archers than us, even more than what we agreed on beforehand. It was a big archerfest.
I didn't see the ripperx video, but I guess that Fallen could have win with even more ease if instead of melee they had more archers. Archers and cavalry can overrun every enemy, unless they are going for the flag, making shielders usefull. If there won't be class limit, crpg will end up like native, and I'm glad that so far every tournament had set some. Still I do fear for strategus, where there are also sieges to make archers even more valuable
EDIT:yeah, that works assuming that your opponents are retarded and aren't going to set up some teamplay too.... Come back when they'll start running into different direction while pew pewing your back while you are facing their cavalry
argument extraordinaire
Ajde slovenac ne seri. :wink:
Zna dobro da nam ne smetaju projedinačni strijelci nego kad ih ima 70 od 80. Nemoj bit off-topic ko ova svinja gore. :wink:
I suspect once again, it's "and a crossbow too" syndrome re-emerging rather than too many people switching to archery. Archery is a thankless task.
Yes indeed, lack of crossbow wpf has to have a devastating effect, the slot patch only made people drop sniper xbows for weaker xbows.
I doubt people would've used Sniper Xbow with the upkeep anyway. 939 denars for one shot, or standing with your ass up in the air for 10 seconds to shoot one more? No, I seriously think that they wouldn't have used it as a sidearm if it indeed was one slot.
I doubt people would've used Sniper Xbow with the upkeep anyway. 939 denars for one shot, or standing with your ass up in the air for 10 seconds to shoot one more? No, I seriously think that they wouldn't have used it as a sidearm if it indeed was one slot.
Yes indeed, lack of crossbow wpf has to have a devastating effect, the slot patch only made people drop sniper xbows for weaker xbows.
I keep seeing you viagrians on the battle server with the normal xbow shotgunning people.... :?
Only a bunch of unorganized archers can be taken down by a group of melee guys, they only need to run away in different directions and crossfire you.
Fact is archers can be easily countered if you are in an organized group (even melee only). Especially those archer who aren't organized, like the ones usually on public servers.
Only a bunch of unorganized archers can be taken down by a group of melee guys, they only need to run away in different directions and crossfire you.
Fact is that archers become way more powerful as long they know how to play together IE don't stay in the same spot and run to expose enemy flank to allied arrows
Cool! What server is this?? Would love to be able to see my stats on a server, been mostly playing tunatown lately and I knw we don't track that yet.
P.S. BRD and Cavalieres REPRESENT - oh yeah, top 2 tks.
Not to start that discussion, but the reason the fallens/HRE did win was because they had much more archers than us, even more than what we agreed on beforehand. It was a big archerfest.
There was no agreement on amount of archers. Stop spewing BS.
And i daresay we won by more than just our use of archers.
True but why shouldn't they :?: what you describe is how the archers should be playedThey should be played in this way and that's why an archery unbalance in a team is the worst thing that can happens, unless it's a completly open map
Told you so.... but people would rage and bitch when i made a warning thread 3 days after the patch.....I said so too - I also forgot at the time that it's possible to heirloom the lighter 1-slot crossbows so they aren't much weaker than the heavier ones. Additionally (as I keep banging on) they are effectively guns in that you can put them away and they stay loaded when you take them out again, which is another encouragement to use them as sidearms. So far we haven't had quite the same problems on the EU servers. So far...
But atleast my troll bar got a boost :mrgreen:
Nonetheless archery is fine like i kept saying and many people tries to say its when u add in 1 wpf xbows in the mix of all the shit flying around that u get to the point where you rage....
The arguement has led to a battle!And for some reason the thing right after that video was a suggested link to this
http://youtu.be/MPmcyxexFaU?hd=1 (http://youtu.be/MPmcyxexFaU?hd=1)
we know about the melee-only servers and guess even more what: we don't want to play there. We don't want to play without ranged units. We don't want ranged units getting more nerfed. We do, however, want battles without 100 out of 120 people shooting.Hahah that's even worse. This guy who isn't the OP but claims to speak for him pretty much admits that this is just a pointless whine thread. Good job, buddy.
Hahah that's even worse. This guy who isn't the OP but claims to speak for him pretty much admits that this is just a pointless whine thread. Good job, buddy.
Must be an NA problem then. over 80 % ranged? I dont think so. At least on EU there is 20 - 30 % cav on some maps.
My estimation would be about max 30 % - 35 % dedicated ranged. Not counting the shielders who have an xbow with low wpf shooting once and than go into meele.
Everything which is not dedicated range is not really a thread. putting random bolts aside.
I dont see the problem. I with my polearm alt seldom get shot. Sure you have to go for cover and stuff. but random headshots which happen from time to time are not really a threat as they are rare.
maybe at the end of round when there are a couple of archers left it gets more intens.
But who are these archers shooting at? I would say mostly other archers (because they stand still every shot), cav coming near them and low armored. At least thats what I do with my archer, again only in the early and mid time of the round, not at the end.
The arguement has led to a battle!
http://youtu.be/MPmcyxexFaU?hd=1 (http://youtu.be/MPmcyxexFaU?hd=1)
lol loki thx good laugh..
Btw where did u get that clip from what movie TELL ME TELL !!!! :!: :!: Rabble kha bla!!!! :lol:
I just played for a couple hours with double crossbows, bolts, and a fighting axe. It was seriously easy. I have 1 wpf in crossbow, I'm a 2h. I just picked them up to see how easy archery is... I just kill horses in 1 shot if they run at me, and if they don't, I'll easily shoot it down with the next shot then continue to kill the rider since they think I can't fight. Honestly, people say archery is hard, but it only seems like it would take a couple hours to master. Sure, I can't hit extremely far away targets cause low wpf but I just double barrel crossbow people all day. Just my two cents on that crossbows should require wpf to use.
The arguement has led to a battle!
http://youtu.be/MPmcyxexFaU?hd=1 (http://youtu.be/MPmcyxexFaU?hd=1)
Whaaat, if they held the arrow for so long their reticule would be huge :D
Edit: Archery does take skill. But more skill is required in melee. When shooting, you have to determine distance, speed of projectile, and stuff like that... Take a couple shots and you will determine your how high your reticle needs to be. However, in melee, you must think about blocking, attacking, footwork, when to attack, when to feint, when to spin and spam, blah blah... Just must think more actively when meleeing imo... I just kind of zone out when I play some shooters ya know!?
Objectively speaking, nothing in the game has a higher skill ceiling than ranged weapons.... :shock:
I'm fairly sure both melee and ranged have impossibly high skill ceilings that no one in the game has come close to reaching.
It's theoretically possible as a melee to always chamber every incoming attack. No one does this.
It's theoretically possible as ranged to always place your reticule at the exact correct position to hit, barring dodges/inaccuracy. No one does this, and even 10 year CS pros can't do this.
All melee and ranged could also get much better at positioning, tactics and awareness.
Discussing which is harder is pointless. This is a stupid whine thread.
Objectively speaking, nothing in the game has a higher skill ceiling than ranged weapons.
Look no further than the top 25 players posted earlier. At least 22 out of 25 are 2handers or polearms. Does anyone really think that's what balance looks like? At the very least, it sure as hell doesn't warrant the endless threads bitching and complaining about ranged classes.I am pretty sure that at least 21 out of these 22 would not use a bow even if they were hired as violinists. The better players are the ones that want challenge. They go melee. Talk as much as you want about calculating arrow drop and relative speeds, but the bottom line is that archers are not mathematicians and 90% of what they do is point and click. Yes, fast point and click takes just a bit of skill.
I am pretty sure that at least 21 out of these 22 would not use a bow even if they were hired as violinists. The better players are the ones that want challenge. They go melee.
I am pretty sure that at least 21 out of these 22 would not use a bow even if they were hired as violinists. The better players are the ones that want challenge. They go melee. Talk as much as you want about calculating arrow drop and relative speeds, but the bottom line is that archers are not mathematicians and 90% of what they do is point and click. Yes, fast point and click takes just a bit of skill.
Even including chambering it's not even close, but fair enough.
However, what's more relevant is balance and skill floor. Look no further than the top 25 players posted earlier. At least 22 out of 25 are 2handers or polearms. Does anyone really think that's what balance looks like? At the very least, it sure as hell doesn't warrant the endless threads bitching and complaining about ranged classes.
Forget you CoD mentality boy, why does the kill ladder or k/d even matter in this game who gives a shit and btw. the sickest scores are made by good cav players these days they dominate.
Archers should never be chart toppers beacause they are a SUPPORT class. Get your head out your ass and check how the fights went on on medival battlefields and who got if no all than most kills (hint: it were melee ppl). So i suggest now u grab a weapon and learn to block weakling
^^^^
Yea, 1h cav is p tough shit. Lot of scrubs don't get that. Lancing is the easiest thing in this game besides two handers.
Guess who died the most in medieval combat, melee.
I am pretty sure that at least 21 out of these 22 would not use a bow even if they were hired as violinists. The better players are the ones that want challenge. They go melee. Talk as much as you want about calculating arrow drop and relative speeds, but the bottom line is that archers are not mathematicians and 90% of what they do is point and click. Yes, fast point and click takes just a bit of skill.
Forget you CoD mentality boy, why does the kill ladder or k/d even matter in this game who gives a shit and btw.
The better players are the ones that want challenge.
archer is a low risk medium reward class, nuf said
No wonder many people prefer 2h, as nearly everyone can block well enough to be in the easy zone of the 2h learning curve.Because everyone can block, many choose the easy way and try to just shoot them.
Archery has also an easy EARLY learning curve, then it steadily becomes harder to progress.This +1.
2h/swing polearms just are hard when you learn blocking (pretty much everyone can block decently now), and when it's done you have the best melee weapons, and a little more awareness/feinting/min-maxxing makes you much more effective.
1h maybe are the easiest to start with. You don't have to block. So the only possible improvements are awareness, reach-learning, feinting... But due to the weaknesses of 1h weapons, damage and reach first, you have to become much better to gain just a little more efficiency.
No wonder many people prefer 2h, as nearly everyone can block well enough to be in the easy zone of the 2h learning curve.
As time goes, the advantage of shields in melee becomes less and less important, and the lack of punch and reach of 1h more and more penalizing.
It's actually not, you just look at it from a different angle.
Thats also the reason why this quote is bullshit:No wonder many people prefer 2h, as nearly everyone can block well enough to be in the easy zone of the 2h learning curve.Because everyone can block, many choose the easy way and try to just shoot them.
But as I see it, shields simply seem not primarly ment for melee battle but arrow defence.
And btw: If you think about the most skilled players in cRPG, you guys think about some archers instead Pyhrex and co.?You think about Phyrex and co because:
So goretooth runs around in triple loomed black armor and a mw bec because it's so damn challenging? And no archer, not a single archer, plays the class because they're good? And none of those are good enough to even get in the top 25?The melee guys run in armor first and foremost as defense against archers and TK. In melee, anything but really the plates will not buy you more than 1 hit in survival. I love occasionally playing with peasant gear and silly weapons (I am not good at all), but I always switch characters/equipment after a few rounds of dying to random archers instead of getting killed in melee. This is fine, but just emphasize the role of armor: archer, horse bumps and TK defense.
I saw a 2h user in that top 25 go archer for a gen and guess what? He never got anywhere close to the scores he gets as a 2hander.
Apparently it does matter considering it's the only thing on the scoreboard and the only thing recorded on that site. I don't play CoD but at least that game records assists and objectives captured.
One can pick any strange thing to do for testing player skills. I can safely assume many top players would be having an hard time with a dagger str build (not that I would not mind you).
If you choose abusing retarded animations and multiplayer-specific game engine limitations, I think Phyrex is pretty high in the skill list. This is not a rant, I abuse lolspamming too as everyone. He just does it better.
If you choose straight arrow bug timing, I think Coldblood_Revenant wins hands down, however.
You see I played for about 5 minutes and racked up 5 headshots in a single shot, thus this class is completely OP.
You see I played for about 5 minutes and racked up 5 headshots in a single shot, thus this class is completely OP.
:lol:
It's not that hard to top charts, it's hard to top it while doing your job, which means, adapting to the current scenario and defining priorities.
And this is where you find the best players at. You know then what true horror means, when you have these players focusing you all the time when you become a menace. 8-)
Battle assassinations ftw :(
I am pretty sure that at least 21 out of these 22 would not use a bow even if they were hired as violinists. The better players are the ones that want challenge. They go melee. Talk as much as you want about calculating arrow drop and relative speeds, but the bottom line is that archers are not mathematicians and 90% of what they do is point and click. Yes, fast point and click takes just a bit of skill.First not everybody has great pings so melee while it can still be done it takes more compensation the higher your ping and if you are up against good players then you are really at even more a disadvantage. Some people go ranged because of that reason. Also are 90% of enemies standing still waiting to receive arrows? Or running perfectly straight at archers? If not then no '90% point and click'. A lot of melee players can't seem to accept a different skillset as valid other than melee.
When archers top the scores that is really bad. A melee player that killed 10, had to face each one and get into their threat range in order to kill them. An archer that killed 10 could have climbed some barely accessible position and killed 10 people that were not engaged with him and unless archers themselves, could not hit him back.If he is on an inaccessible area that is one thing. If he is not then there is no problem. Does the other team have ranged as well? If an archer gets 10 kills and the other team has failed to do something about it then they deserve to lose. You can't win despite sucking.
I don't think any time I topped the scoreboards as an archer or even was in the top five I was camping...
I guess I am doing it wrong :evil:
In my experience, static archers tend to be rather dead in a quicker fashion then archers that run and gun.
I can confirm that you are a p bad archer.
First not everybody has great pings so melee while it can still be done it takes more compensation the higher your ping and if you are up against good players then you are really at even more a disadvantage. Some people go ranged because of that reason. Also are 90% of enemies standing still waiting to receive arrows? Or running perfectly straight at archers? If not then no '90% point and click'. A lot of melee players can't seem to accept a different skillset as valid other than melee.
Yeah... this is really a strange feeling to play an alt of a class you're terrible at (like me and throwing), suddenly your lifetime expectations seem to double as nobody focuses you. Battle assassinations ftw :(
By that I mean that characters usually topping the charts try to kill each other as soon as possible, when their class allows it. It's easier to aim at particular people with a ranged weapon than surviving an half map obstacle course and sneaking up on someone.
I have to train almost every day on the duel server to stay on top. Do you do the same? I don't think so.
I can confirm that you are a p bad archer.Hey I'm not bad I'm just harmless. :cry:
Remove ladders?? Gah, might as well just go back to vanillia...
You big babies won't be happy till archery is dead, don't lie to yourselves.
Crossbows are the problem, not archers.
I have to train almost every day on the duel server to stay on top. Do you do the same? I don't think so.So are you implying archery is not difficult enough? If it was made harder and archers still found a way to do good would it be 'ok' then? Would it finally be accepted as a valid skillset by some? I'm not even an archer really. I just tried it mainly because of this thread.
Please do so.
Not that we would notice anyways, mister D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. arbalest user......I'm really sorry but i don't recall ever hearing of you and i happen to know all the D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. arbalest players (who are of any use to their teams/clans/whatever) on EU servers by their names and deeds (from early beta days until today) but i simply don't recall you nor your "special" arbalest. Either I'm getting too old for this shit or you simply weren't so D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. back in the old days when it actually took some skill to hit anything with sniper crossbow but suddenly, when any fool can be a "legendary croosbowman" you decided to become one yourself......or you're just a D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D zero. Nil. Nothing. Null. Cero. нулю. sıfır.
Same as some guys before you: you might wanna learn to read. It helps a lot.
Also: the middle part of your in-game nickname is a waste of space, you could very well do without it.
I play in NA
Same as some guys before you: you might wanna learn to read. It helps a lot.
.
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEzjnPLsSho
Why don't we stop this stupid discussion, agree that there are a lot of ranged now, and look for a solution?
Why don't we stop this stupid discussion, agree that there are a lot of ranged now, and look for a solution?
As I said, I think the main problem are the maps. Most of them have plenty of spots for camping. Of course, good archers don't really camp, but the "pub archers" love camping. Perhaps without this, they would be more vulnerable, they would have to be alert always, and they wouldnt see archery as so easy as it is now.
Moving to crossbows, I think they should be nerfed a bit, specially the 1 slot ones. Either further lower the damage they do, or just make them take 2 slots. Most of the 2h/polearm are 2 slots, so why not?.
Again...22 out of 25 at least. It's like they don't even pay attention. Here's an idea. Nerf 2handers and polearms. Hopefully this will reduce their numbers equaling fewer people whining about ranged. Maybe they'll go shield, which would lower the effectiveness of ranged indirectly. THAT would be a step toward balance.
Nerfing ranged even more would just send even more people toward the overpowered 2handers and polearms effectively solving nothing because even more people would be vulnerable to ranged and further bitching about it. And of course any nerf to range further decreases the usefulness of shields, adding additional 2h and pa players on top of that. With even more 2h and pa we'd need to nerf ranged again to stop the tears from even more people, continuing the vicious cycle until archery and xbows are equal in worthlessness to throwing. Which i suppose is the ultimate goal. The complete elimination of ranged, so everyone can run around spamming each other and basking in the joy of how skillful it is to wear full plate armor and use the highest damage, longest ranged melee weapons in the game.
Maybe they'll go shield
There aren't too many archers or xbow guys.
Also, they aren't OP.
ur all dum.
From Fallen Archers to all the QQers. Copyright Marrisae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKYLqmt3ahE
Oh really?
Fresh from the battlefield;(click to show/hide)
Worthy creativity! What will the templars compile in retaliation to your video? Or are they too afraid to make their own video? Weeaboo power!
Kesh, ever since you started your market offers, your awesome bar has been dropping :(
(or have you been doing something ruthless somewhere else?)
(click to show/hide)
Did you even played cRPG BEFORE the very first BIG patch? I think if yes, you wouldn´t be here now, because you´d have GTXted before this patch. Archery was op before the new archer animations were implemented. I was archer myself back then (now I´m cav/pole and will stay it) but I was easily able to run away from shielders and to pew pew them in the moments when they tried to hit me. I needed about 4-8 arrows for all the guys in black armor, though.Not really, unless you are going back all the way to August 2010 when you had archers in Gothic Plate. Then as now, the real problem was sidearm crossbows distorting the gameplay.
+1 from me :)
... I keep saying the maneuverability of the arabian warhorse and the speed of the courser are OP and need adjustment. ...
nomnomnom(click to show/hide)
remove this class before its to late http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAR4Od6ba9o&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s
How long do you think he lasted?
Cant hit anything? Have you seen tounela? He seems alright at hitting people...
I created a HA alt once... 3-80 KD score at lvl 25 :D
so i stopped complaining about them.
People should really try out the class before whining.
It's not their massive K:D's that upsets ppl (cuz they don't have them), but the fact that they are so godawful annoying to play against if you don't have a ranged wep or a faster horse.
If a HA targets you and decides to stick with it, he will slowly chip away at your health while forcing you to jump around and spazz/hide behind cover for as long as he pleases, with nothing you can do against him.
It's the "there is nothing you can do" part that pisses players of, not that they rampage through entire teams with ease (that's lancecav, yes I've seen the hybrid "shrugs").
(Not to mention that they're the worst delayers (read: most effective) ever, but that's a player issue really)
It's not their massive K:D's that upsets ppl (cuz they don't have them), but the fact that they are so godawful annoying to play against if you don't have a ranged wep or a faster horse.
If a HA targets you and decides to stick with it, he will slowly chip away at your health while forcing you to jump around and spazz/hide behind cover for as long as he pleases, with nothing you can do against him.
It's the "there is nothing you can do" part that pisses players of, not that they rampage through entire teams with ease (that's lancecav, yes I've seen the hybrid "shrugs").
(Not to mention that they're the worst delayers (read: most effective) ever, but that's a player issue really)
Perhaps if infantry had some sort of "horse trap" construction people would not mind them so much.Oh god, that may be the best idea I've read in ages.
Oh god, that may be the best idea I've read in ages.
Horse Trap - 5000gold, 2 slots.
When used, Horse Trap is placed below the infantry unit after a 3 second "cast time". Horse Trap is invisible. When an enemy horse passes directly above Horse Trap, the horse takes 100 cut damage (pre-armor) and is reared. Horse Trap can only be placed and triggered once.
Not realistic, but it would make for some interesting anti-cav tactics.
lol.
Wooden Stakes would be a better, and realistic option. They should be up there with Siege shields, and Construction material.
Imagine the griefing on tight maps...
I am all ears for some effective way of dealing with HA/lancers without resorting to bundle of stickstry myself, but I don't think traps are the solution (the idea is cool tho, I just think it would be hard to implement without massive abuse).
Maybe use the torch to scare the horses into rearing :mrgreen:
No but srsly, although traps are cool, they would probably just lead to ppl griefing their own team, and as a way to make camping easier :(